Quick Answers to Calvinists Philippians 1:29 - Jacques More

[Mathetes76]

It certainly is possible, for that is what it says! Charizomai simply means that the giving is granted freely; it does not remove deliberation from the act. This is demonstrated clearly in Philippians 2:9, unless you are going to think that God didn't deliberately give Jesus a name which is above every name!

As for suffering, your conclusion is contradicted by the Scripture: John 15:20; 2 Tim 3:12; Heb 12: 6-7 etc).

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Mathetes76,

Sure the same verb is found in Phil.2:9 and in 1:29 but the former is only about 1 individual and you cannot thereby suggest He is not recipient; the latter as per the vid is about a group and not every one goes through the same particular thing.

Sure all true Christians get persecuted, but the point is not to the same extent and particulars, whereas salvation is about the same deal.

[Mathetes76]

Hi gracetruthguy (good user name btw),

Thanks for the response; however, there seems to be no good ground for artificially restricting the meaning of charizomai to 'with no deliberate intent when to a group' and 'with deliberate intent when to an individual' as you are now doing! There is another simple way to test your interpretation of Phpps 1:29. If the gift of faith is not deliberate & specific, then there should be no instances of didomi in this context...John 6:65 destroys this notion.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Mathetes76,

It does not follow that didomi should impose its meaning on charizomai.

They are 2 different words.

If any word is used for a group, it is different then to an individual when that word itself is not absoulte in nature. It tells us some in the group will experience all of this; others not. That is my meaning.

But, when an individual is in view they cannot be treated like a group. Since he is the only recipient of that action however indefinite: that is my point.

[Mathetes76]

You seem to missed my point re. didomi & charizomai. The fact that "they are 2 different words" is precisely my point. To restate: the implication of your treatment of charizomai in this video is that saving faith "is not a direct deliberate act of giving like DIDOMI..."(@04:50). Therefore, if you are correct, there should be no example of didomi being used in this regard. However, as I've demonstrated, there is. Thus, charizomai is simply telling us that the giving is free, not by any merit.

[Mathetes76]

cont.

As for the semantic of a word changing when it is applied to a group rather than an individual has no basis apart from the theological presupposition you are filtering the text through. The reason charizomai is used (in distinction to didomi) is to illustrate that God's grace is freely given and hence, is not earned or in response to any meritorious action of an individual or group (such as decisionism). This conclusion is far more harmonious with Pauline theology.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Mathetes76,

Yes, I did miss your point. You were not referring to a grammatical or language similarity, but one of the giving of faith as a subject in 2 inspired texts.

However, John 6:65 is not about giving faith and it is not unconditional giving.

See my video:

"not so Quick Answer to Calvinists John 15:16 (& John 6) - Jacques More"

[simplydannygirl]

Jac. I have a very different approach to refuting Calvinism. And it's not that hard to shoot through the holes in Calvinism.

It often deviates from the Scripture in place of error filled acronyms such as TULIP. They talk of God's Grace. Yet, on delegated to their mystery elect.

So I like to cut to the chase. And go straight for the falsehood. You men have so much more patience then me.

Danny

[GBFNorwalk]

Good video guy.

[ProphecyChannel]

Keep speaking the truth to expose Calvinism. Most Calvinists wholly believe in it. I pray for them to see the truth of the Scriptures because most honestly wish to serve God in their hearts. But they are deceived by this false doctrine and it is our job as brothers to lead them out of it.

Grace and peace

[gracetruthguy]

Hi ProphecyChannel,

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, it is the enemy that began this in the 5th century in the church with Augustine and he carries on veiling the eyes to the context of the Scripture: so deception which is believing something of God and true when it is not, is very much the issue.