Why is it that Data grows from comically ignorant to remarkably "human" in his seven year tour of duty on the Enterprise even though he had already been in Starfleet for 23 years, had encountered over 1,700 species, been decorated for bravery on multiple occasions, and had served for 15 years on the USS Trieste? He adapts, learns, and enriches himself relatively quickly on the Enterprise, but lacks even basic understandings of death's effects despite almost a quarter century in the military.
@mazerrackham001 1) no one before the Enterprise crew ever bothered to make friends with him or treat him like a person, they acted like he was the sum of his job and abilities and nothing more. He only learned from databases. 2) We haven't seen Data before he was on the Enterprise. He could have matured a huge amount before the series started, and *continued* to mature throughout the series. Where is it written that he stayed exactly the same from the time he was first activated until season 1?
@Whillikersify Some people had to have treated him like more than a computer. The fact that he was recommended for and received so many decorations for bravery and valor attest to that. It may be that we was treated the way we treat decorated K-9 dogs today, but even then there is a bond between dog, handler, and peripheral soldiers/police. He also couldn't have spent a quarter century plugged into a computer because he did valorous things and met over 1700 new species.
@Whillikersify I'm not saying he was the same from activation to Season 1, but you'd expect more progress in a quarter century, given his rapid progress in seven years on the Enterprise.
@mazerrackham001 But how do you know how much progress he made in a quarter century? You say "more" progress, but more than what? We never saw him when he was just built, so we have no idea what he progressed *from*. We have no idea how un-human and robotic he started out as. He could've made twice as much progress from activation to season 1 as he did over the course of his time on the Enterprise, we just never saw it.
@Whillikersify I meant that I would have expected him to be further along by season one, episode one, than he actually was. We can see where he was at that point and Data's article on memory alpha gives us some clue as to how he functioned at "birth", as a cadet, and as an officer on the USS Trieste.
@mazerrackham001 Hmm, it still doesn't mean his demeanor and stuff was human-like in his "childhood", so he still could be "further along" from a very rudimentary and mechanical, personality and identity-wise speaking, android like the ones in TOS even if he was capable of complex tasks. But I do agree with you that it would have seemed more fitting if Data had been very young, like seven or eight, in season one. It would have made the reasons for his whole childlike demeanor more human-like.
I didn't like this episode, but I think this is one of the best scenes in Next Gen, right up there with Data's conversation with Spock about humanity.
Star Wars is like my action movie of choice. Star Trek is like my Soap of choice, although I don't watch Soaps. Nevertheless, I still enjoy a good episode of ST (mainly NG)
@Entityskateboards Er, he means all the war, the genocide, the murders... all that human blood spilled by other humans that could have been avoided had all humans held a love for all life rather than just those closest to them. Something along those lines.
Seeing something is sensing it. Smelling something, hearing, tasting or touching it - that is sensing. Hence the 'five senses'. Data was stating that he didn't observe as many of his friends being upset by this death.
@ORACLE063 I don't agree. You think if we cared more about people we didn't know, that progress would be hindered because we would have to make sure that no one is being exploited. I see it the other way, if we cared about people we don't know, we wouldn't have to exploit people. There is no correlation between caring and progress.
@demoniosolitario Here is Data's definition of friendship: "As I experience certain sensory input patterns, my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The inputs eventually are anticipated and even 'missed' when absent."
While Data doesn't feel sadness or pain, he does feel a sense of absence, which may create the same empty feeling we have when loved ones pass away.
Riker's right, human history would be a lot less bloody if humans felt a loss just as much," regardless of who has died" because, if that were true people would not kill others because the death of that person would cause just as much sadness as would the death of a brother or perhaps a parent.
Truly a Roddenberry moment through and through - a genuine lesson on real life, one that if we could only learn to apply to ourselves could make the world a much better place.
An excellent message in this scene. I've always understood that we only care about the deaths of ones we have an emotional connection to. A basic animalistic trait to help us multiply. Simply put, the ones we are close to can either be an asset to help attack/defend ourselves or be an opportunity to have sex with and create a new life.
So much care for strangers could not be present at death only, as such caring would necessitate a heart that embraces all, in life as well as death. Unless such sorrow were merely neurotic selfishness. However,they are clearly referring to the sense of loss. This would imply a connectivity that we have rarely experienced,historically. In these moments, TNG is at it's best, giving pause to reflect as to how can we improve as a race. What would be the cost and the loss in the process? Peace, -g
Indeed. Characters like Data, Spock and Odo allow us to see an outsiders perspective on humanity that would be hard to achieve outside of science fiction. It's about more than spaceships and aliens. Too bad most science fiction on TV is just that.
@theinquisitor AMEN!!! But not just certain inhuman characters do that. Even Sisko remarks during the war that he felt he owed it to men that died that he read each name and pay special attention to them, but later he stopped regarding the loss as high when the names blurred together. Things like this make us take hard looks at humanity, see our failings, and hope for better. Rodenberry gave the best life changing direction to SCIFI. Instead of the common blast em up movies they asked for....
@theinquisitor ( Rodenberry gave the best life changing direction to SCIFI.) Instead of the common blast em up movies they asked for when they wanted a space western. And that's all a lot of other scifi shows do. Even Harry Potter is just a new western with wands instead of phasers to film makers. Hollywood threw out a lot of heart from Rowling's books. It's a wonder Rodenberry's idealism survived. Does anyone else hate this?
@theinquisitor oh well said. i tried so hard to explain this to people that liked the SGU, i tried to explain that for a science fiction it was open to use novel ways to reflect on humanity and society but instead the series chose to base much of it on on earth and everything was seen/shown through the humans view. way make a sci-fy if ur not going to use it uniqueness in order to explore these types of issues?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
But if we felt the same about the death of a stranger as we do about that of a friend, then we would be grief stricken every day of our lives. I'd rather have a few wars here and there than live in perpetual misery from the deaths of everyone around me.
@BennyQuixote@darbonne1979 I agree w both of you. It would be a burden, but a fantastic one, to feel all loss. Would be terribly different from what we know.
In Star Trek: Nemesis Data dies sacrificing himself. A heroes death, but before he went couldn't he make a copy of his mind or something like that and transfer it later in a new body?
In the last scene of Nemesis, we are given a hint that much of Data survived the memory transfer to B4, when he starts humming a tune that Data sang earlier in the movie.
In the comic book series that preceded the new Star Trek movie, we see that Data's mind did indeed emerge later and Data lives on in B4's body. Then of course, Spock goes back in time, destroys all of history and rapes everything that Star Trek means. So nothing in TNG ever happened. THANKS JJ ABRAMS!
@theinquisitor History is not erased in JJ Abrams Star Trek, its just an alternate reality. The old stuff still exists, but in a different universe. Personally, I like both old and new Trek.
No that's not true, in Star Trek XI, Spock and Nero went back in time into a different universe- the original prime universe still exists and it's timeline and history has not been damaged or changed in anyway. Data and the rest are still alive in the original unvierse
Nothing would please me more, but I can't see how that would happen.
I don't think Patrick Stewart is interested in doing any more Trek for one thing, and the success of the new movie far over any of the previous ones suggests that they will continue in that direction, since that's where the money is.
but I think there should be another TNG movie before Brent Spiner becomes too old and we end up having a CGI Brent Spiner like CGI Arnie in Terminator 4 LOL
I agree with you about the new movie, and if we won't have anymore movies or series set in the original universe, then star trek truly is dead IMO
@elcap22 OMG are they really replacing actors with CGI now? I don't know how to feel about that. It's almost good news thinking you can keep that characters you love. But it can't be as good as real people with real expression. T4 REALLY SUCKED!!!! Shwartznegger picked the worst swan song. The series was better. He should've done True Lies 2. I want to see a DS9 movie. They've done enough with TNG. Or DS9/Voyager, that has enough TNG cast to satisfy. But they separated a lot of people, Bummer.
What a joke. They've done how many time travel episodes? And all or most of them dealt with restoring the timeline. Now suddenly, J.J. Abrams decides "I'm going to change everything to appeal to people who hate Star Trek" and they make this convenient excuse. Alternate universe? I didn't see any beards! I didn't see the emblem of the Empire.
"Real" Star Trek still exists. Not because of nonsense about parallel universes, but because Abrams is a hack and his movie is complete BS.
@MazeleyFanClub Boo. Yes the newest ST film is different - too different to me - but it's all good. He's hardly a hack and the movie has some merit. Lighten up, Francis.
@MazeleyFanClub That's why I haven't seen it. Sounds like BS. Seeing the Alternate Universe in DS9 has been very satisfying. I don't know why they made everything so turned around in the movie other than trying to dig characters out of a grave!!!!! Stupid!!! If they wanted to do an alternate universe movie in the past, why didn't they say it upfront & stay loyal to the emblams & everything from mirror mirror & show the down fall of Terrans to the Bejorian & Cardassians? That could've been good.
@MazeleyFanClub ...Are you kidding? Did the actual plot have Spock screwing with the time line? How is that logical or consistant with anything? You're right about them protecting the time line. If Kirk's emotions ever had him suggest changing something, even with good intent, Spok would've pointed out the illogicality and risk of it.
@elcap22 I haven't seen the movie but the plot of alternate universe, all new cast and everything sounds weak to me. I'm not running to find it. Why don't they use the still young cast from DS9, Voyager, and make a movie with new characters we love instead of trying to dig up KIRK and SPOCK? I like TNG cast but the ship concept has gone far enough. I liked seeing more of the world the way DS9 showed everything form earth to other planets to visiting aliens. I'd like to see that movie!!!!
"But should not the feelings run just as deep, regardless of who has died?"
Right on, Data.
I wouldn't describe Data as being "innocent" (of human nature) here; as much as he is (from the advantage of his outside perspective) more cognizant of human faults. Actually he is being quite logical and smart. Riker is correct, too; but ultimately only God can view all losses due to death in this way, as He is incapable of knowing or loving someone by degrees. It's inherent in His eternal perspective.
Did anyone else notice the little similarity between that exchange at the end and a conversation between Spock and McCoy in the episode "The Immunity Syndrome" of Star Trek TOS, or was it just me?
(.....oh my gosh, I really have gone over the deep end... I'm even geekier than I was a few months ago, and I didn't think that was possible.... o.o)
@racl101 AMEN!!! the may the force be with you and concept ringed a bit like God. But it never hit on any real heart like Star Trek. It never made you think. It was all blast em up and hero gets the girl.
@racl101 star wars IS a show for retards. star trek is about more. its about people, relationships, life ,growing, learning , friendship, loss and the bond that holds us all together . star wars is about aliens and things that go boom-boom.
@TheSpiritDennyColt, come on that's too harsh. Star Wars is about more than that. It's classic epic storytelling. It's not as deep as Star Trek by any means, but it's much shorter so how could it be?
@theinquisitor I think that Star Trek and Star Wars are equally deep and good, just very, very different in how those qualities are represented. In Star Wars, it's done through an epic archetypal story that's closely tied to human nature. In Star Trek, it's through different reflections of humanity using situations and characters that question common assumptions. Trek may be broader (more hours of screentime, people!), but I don't think either of them are shallower.
@racl101 Heh, whenever I see the words "Star Wars" I mentally translate it as "Space Chivalry". Good vs bad, not exactly probing the depths of human psyche, what can enable a good person to do evil, etc.
Star Trek reminds me of The Twilight Zone due to the social interactions in varying circumstances. Helps to promote/encourage empathy I'd say.
Yes, very true. That's the type of sentence you would hear from a humanitarian. If only humans could stop fighting all the time and make peace with each other we would live in a better world.
I think there should have been more Noonian Soong episodes, i think the man who could build a machanoid do emulate a human being in almost every way, is a topic with far greater depth than was explored in TNG.
As a small boy I grew up on tng, and it continues to have an influence on my life even today as a college student. I loved the characters and their development throughout the series, the lessons you learn, and the excitement at the start of each episode of the mystery to come, which is beyond imagination. Particulary, I envy Picard and data and the chemistry between them. I can think of no other show that's more uplifting in its transformation of hope into something tangible and realistic.
I disagree, I don't think he really stays innocent, he goes through too much, but he's just such a good person that life hasn't dented his enthusiam for his and all life.
lose syncopated section in one of the songs—a part that had taken me hours to learn—and Nick turned to me and said, "Do you think you could solo over that?" Socrates?
i heard Riker swallowing! That was the best moment of my life! ^^
MusicJamSchauspiel 2 months ago
I think that since this episode has creating a robust discussion on YouTube, that this episode (and Star Trek: TNG itself) have succeeded. :)
ciroslive 2 months ago
Why is it that Data grows from comically ignorant to remarkably "human" in his seven year tour of duty on the Enterprise even though he had already been in Starfleet for 23 years, had encountered over 1,700 species, been decorated for bravery on multiple occasions, and had served for 15 years on the USS Trieste? He adapts, learns, and enriches himself relatively quickly on the Enterprise, but lacks even basic understandings of death's effects despite almost a quarter century in the military.
mazerrackham001 5 months ago
@mazerrackham001 1) no one before the Enterprise crew ever bothered to make friends with him or treat him like a person, they acted like he was the sum of his job and abilities and nothing more. He only learned from databases. 2) We haven't seen Data before he was on the Enterprise. He could have matured a huge amount before the series started, and *continued* to mature throughout the series. Where is it written that he stayed exactly the same from the time he was first activated until season 1?
Whillikersify 4 months ago
@Whillikersify Some people had to have treated him like more than a computer. The fact that he was recommended for and received so many decorations for bravery and valor attest to that. It may be that we was treated the way we treat decorated K-9 dogs today, but even then there is a bond between dog, handler, and peripheral soldiers/police. He also couldn't have spent a quarter century plugged into a computer because he did valorous things and met over 1700 new species.
mazerrackham001 4 months ago
@Whillikersify I'm not saying he was the same from activation to Season 1, but you'd expect more progress in a quarter century, given his rapid progress in seven years on the Enterprise.
mazerrackham001 4 months ago
@mazerrackham001 But how do you know how much progress he made in a quarter century? You say "more" progress, but more than what? We never saw him when he was just built, so we have no idea what he progressed *from*. We have no idea how un-human and robotic he started out as. He could've made twice as much progress from activation to season 1 as he did over the course of his time on the Enterprise, we just never saw it.
Whillikersify 4 months ago
@Whillikersify I meant that I would have expected him to be further along by season one, episode one, than he actually was. We can see where he was at that point and Data's article on memory alpha gives us some clue as to how he functioned at "birth", as a cadet, and as an officer on the USS Trieste.
mazerrackham001 4 months ago
@mazerrackham001 Hmm, it still doesn't mean his demeanor and stuff was human-like in his "childhood", so he still could be "further along" from a very rudimentary and mechanical, personality and identity-wise speaking, android like the ones in TOS even if he was capable of complex tasks. But I do agree with you that it would have seemed more fitting if Data had been very young, like seven or eight, in season one. It would have made the reasons for his whole childlike demeanor more human-like.
Whillikersify 4 months ago
Truer words have never been spoken.
TonySeptim 5 months ago
I didn't like this episode, but I think this is one of the best scenes in Next Gen, right up there with Data's conversation with Spock about humanity.
linkingisnonsense 6 months ago
Star Wars is like my action movie of choice. Star Trek is like my Soap of choice, although I don't watch Soaps. Nevertheless, I still enjoy a good episode of ST (mainly NG)
WebVMan 6 months ago
I know this is a very profound and serious scene, but it just made me want to drink grapefruit juice.
YesWeCantaloupe 7 months ago
question somebody please explain to me what he means at the end with the bloody human history thing :P pleas eplease please help me out :)
Entityskateboards 9 months ago
@Entityskateboards Er, he means all the war, the genocide, the murders... all that human blood spilled by other humans that could have been avoided had all humans held a love for all life rather than just those closest to them. Something along those lines.
illogicaLeXplanation 9 months ago 3
@demoniosolitario
Sensing is not the same thing as feeling.
Seeing something is sensing it. Smelling something, hearing, tasting or touching it - that is sensing. Hence the 'five senses'. Data was stating that he didn't observe as many of his friends being upset by this death.
taicleis 9 months ago
While what was said sounds nice... if that was the norm they wouldnt be sitting in a star ship.... they would be sitting on earth in the stone age. .
ORACLE063 10 months ago
@ORACLE063 I don't agree. You think if we cared more about people we didn't know, that progress would be hindered because we would have to make sure that no one is being exploited. I see it the other way, if we cared about people we don't know, we wouldn't have to exploit people. There is no correlation between caring and progress.
supernuke 9 months ago
Riker: Do you remember how we all felt when Tasha died?
Data:I do NOT SENSE... the same feelings... of absence that I associate with Lieutenant Yar.
At that time DATA didn't have an Emotional Chip, so he could have not FELT (sensed) anything at all.
demoniosolitario 10 months ago
@demoniosolitario Here is Data's definition of friendship: "As I experience certain sensory input patterns, my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The inputs eventually are anticipated and even 'missed' when absent."
While Data doesn't feel sadness or pain, he does feel a sense of absence, which may create the same empty feeling we have when loved ones pass away.
LaSenoritaManzana 7 months ago 5
@LaSenoritaManzana "he does feel a sense of absence" Again, he doesn't feel, yet is there a way to say the same thing without using the word FEEL?
demoniosolitario 7 months ago
Riker's right, human history would be a lot less bloody if humans felt a loss just as much," regardless of who has died" because, if that were true people would not kill others because the death of that person would cause just as much sadness as would the death of a brother or perhaps a parent.
snackman94 10 months ago 2
Lore must've voted this down.
AeronPeryton 11 months ago
Truly a Roddenberry moment through and through - a genuine lesson on real life, one that if we could only learn to apply to ourselves could make the world a much better place.
ncc74656m 1 year ago 2
Data is what Gene Roddenberry wants Star Trek to be...a question about humanity.
aaronjg682 1 year ago 2
awwww... ilu Data... <3
KingGalby 1 year ago
datas the new jesus
FrukSkoFcsae 1 year ago
ohhh snap. another lesson for all!
FrukSkoFcsae 1 year ago
that goes deep..
data always brings me to a point, i concider about my own mortality and humanity. and i love him for that. thats why hes the greates charakter in TNG
solid244 1 year ago 3
An excellent message in this scene. I've always understood that we only care about the deaths of ones we have an emotional connection to. A basic animalistic trait to help us multiply. Simply put, the ones we are close to can either be an asset to help attack/defend ourselves or be an opportunity to have sex with and create a new life.
greenemerald1 1 year ago
jetpoweredgriffin 2 years ago 35
Indeed. Characters like Data, Spock and Odo allow us to see an outsiders perspective on humanity that would be hard to achieve outside of science fiction. It's about more than spaceships and aliens. Too bad most science fiction on TV is just that.
theinquisitor 2 years ago 38
@theinquisitor AMEN!!! But not just certain inhuman characters do that. Even Sisko remarks during the war that he felt he owed it to men that died that he read each name and pay special attention to them, but later he stopped regarding the loss as high when the names blurred together. Things like this make us take hard looks at humanity, see our failings, and hope for better. Rodenberry gave the best life changing direction to SCIFI. Instead of the common blast em up movies they asked for....
Miracle490d 1 year ago
@theinquisitor ( Rodenberry gave the best life changing direction to SCIFI.) Instead of the common blast em up movies they asked for when they wanted a space western. And that's all a lot of other scifi shows do. Even Harry Potter is just a new western with wands instead of phasers to film makers. Hollywood threw out a lot of heart from Rowling's books. It's a wonder Rodenberry's idealism survived. Does anyone else hate this?
Miracle490d 1 year ago
@theinquisitor The talks data had here are kinda ironic cause he pretty much learns what death is
makutateridax200 1 year ago
@theinquisitor oh well said. i tried so hard to explain this to people that liked the SGU, i tried to explain that for a science fiction it was open to use novel ways to reflect on humanity and society but instead the series chose to base much of it on on earth and everything was seen/shown through the humans view. way make a sci-fy if ur not going to use it uniqueness in order to explore these types of issues?
marcarmstrong88 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
But if we felt the same about the death of a stranger as we do about that of a friend, then we would be grief stricken every day of our lives. I'd rather have a few wars here and there than live in perpetual misery from the deaths of everyone around me.
This is a shallow so-called philosophy.
BennyQuixote 2 years ago
I would have to say it's like this:
if everyone loved their enemies-
there wouldn't be any!
IF people felt so strongly for strangers,we would have a MUCH better world and the elimination of wars would be only the beginning of improvements.
The loss of constant misery for the masses would far outweigh the loss we would feel at others' deaths.
We'd have a much different attitude towards death and
we would not have so much resentment towards God and each other.
Poverty& injustice would disappear
jetpoweredgriffin 2 years ago 3
@BennyQuixote
Way to miss the point.
darbonne1979 1 year ago 2
@darbonne1979
Way to miss my point.
BennyQuixote 1 year ago
@BennyQuixote @darbonne1979 I agree w both of you. It would be a burden, but a fantastic one, to feel all loss. Would be terribly different from what we know.
Qermaq 1 year ago
I wish I was on the enterprise :(
funrizwan 2 years ago
In Star Trek: Nemesis Data dies sacrificing himself. A heroes death, but before he went couldn't he make a copy of his mind or something like that and transfer it later in a new body?
extreme2b 2 years ago
In the last scene of Nemesis, we are given a hint that much of Data survived the memory transfer to B4, when he starts humming a tune that Data sang earlier in the movie.
In the comic book series that preceded the new Star Trek movie, we see that Data's mind did indeed emerge later and Data lives on in B4's body. Then of course, Spock goes back in time, destroys all of history and rapes everything that Star Trek means. So nothing in TNG ever happened. THANKS JJ ABRAMS!
theinquisitor 2 years ago
lol, at lease he exists. in our hearts?
cassandra5322 2 years ago
Yeah, or a parallel universe. And the many novels. And Star Trek Online seems to be continuing the TNG timeline. So that's something.
But I doubt we'll ever see the TNG timeline on TV or movies again. I wish someone would erase JJ Abrams from the timeline.
theinquisitor 2 years ago
wow you can read minds, you said what i was thinking. twice. btw i like how they draw data's lips in ST:countdown . heheh? *space-pout*
cassandra5322 2 years ago
@theinquisitor History is not erased in JJ Abrams Star Trek, its just an alternate reality. The old stuff still exists, but in a different universe. Personally, I like both old and new Trek.
SweeneyGirl310593 2 years ago
"History is not erased in JJ Abrams Star Trek, its just an alternate reality"
Yeah I guess, it's just that we'll never see that universe again on TV. It was so rich and unique.
theinquisitor 2 years ago
No that's not true, in Star Trek XI, Spock and Nero went back in time into a different universe- the original prime universe still exists and it's timeline and history has not been damaged or changed in anyway. Data and the rest are still alive in the original unvierse
A new TNG movie should be made now
elcap22 2 years ago 5
"A new TNG movie should be made now"
Nothing would please me more, but I can't see how that would happen.
I don't think Patrick Stewart is interested in doing any more Trek for one thing, and the success of the new movie far over any of the previous ones suggests that they will continue in that direction, since that's where the money is.
theinquisitor 2 years ago
True
but I think there should be another TNG movie before Brent Spiner becomes too old and we end up having a CGI Brent Spiner like CGI Arnie in Terminator 4 LOL
I agree with you about the new movie, and if we won't have anymore movies or series set in the original universe, then star trek truly is dead IMO
elcap22 2 years ago
Yeah, although there is Star Trek Online, which will be set in the post TNG universe. That's something at least.
theinquisitor 2 years ago
@elcap22 OMG are they really replacing actors with CGI now? I don't know how to feel about that. It's almost good news thinking you can keep that characters you love. But it can't be as good as real people with real expression. T4 REALLY SUCKED!!!! Shwartznegger picked the worst swan song. The series was better. He should've done True Lies 2. I want to see a DS9 movie. They've done enough with TNG. Or DS9/Voyager, that has enough TNG cast to satisfy. But they separated a lot of people, Bummer.
Miracle490d 1 year ago
What a joke. They've done how many time travel episodes? And all or most of them dealt with restoring the timeline. Now suddenly, J.J. Abrams decides "I'm going to change everything to appeal to people who hate Star Trek" and they make this convenient excuse. Alternate universe? I didn't see any beards! I didn't see the emblem of the Empire.
"Real" Star Trek still exists. Not because of nonsense about parallel universes, but because Abrams is a hack and his movie is complete BS.
MazeleyFanClub 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub Boo. Yes the newest ST film is different - too different to me - but it's all good. He's hardly a hack and the movie has some merit. Lighten up, Francis.
Qermaq 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub That's why I haven't seen it. Sounds like BS. Seeing the Alternate Universe in DS9 has been very satisfying. I don't know why they made everything so turned around in the movie other than trying to dig characters out of a grave!!!!! Stupid!!! If they wanted to do an alternate universe movie in the past, why didn't they say it upfront & stay loyal to the emblams & everything from mirror mirror & show the down fall of Terrans to the Bejorian & Cardassians? That could've been good.
Miracle490d 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub ...Are you kidding? Did the actual plot have Spock screwing with the time line? How is that logical or consistant with anything? You're right about them protecting the time line. If Kirk's emotions ever had him suggest changing something, even with good intent, Spok would've pointed out the illogicality and risk of it.
Miracle490d 1 year ago
@elcap22 I haven't seen the movie but the plot of alternate universe, all new cast and everything sounds weak to me. I'm not running to find it. Why don't they use the still young cast from DS9, Voyager, and make a movie with new characters we love instead of trying to dig up KIRK and SPOCK? I like TNG cast but the ship concept has gone far enough. I liked seeing more of the world the way DS9 showed everything form earth to other planets to visiting aliens. I'd like to see that movie!!!!
Miracle490d 1 year ago
The last seconds of this conversation are simply brilliant.
Faunatik 2 years ago
"But should not the feelings run just as deep, regardless of who has died?"
Right on, Data.
I wouldn't describe Data as being "innocent" (of human nature) here; as much as he is (from the advantage of his outside perspective) more cognizant of human faults. Actually he is being quite logical and smart. Riker is correct, too; but ultimately only God can view all losses due to death in this way, as He is incapable of knowing or loving someone by degrees. It's inherent in His eternal perspective.
churchmousie 2 years ago 3
it was these kind of conversaions that made TNG the best of the franchise.
spiderweb20 2 years ago 9
Cue Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror."
MuEpsilonGamma 2 years ago 4
excellent lesson, this is why star trek is so forward thinking and intellectual
UNlike that crappy new movie, yuck!
handofnergal 2 years ago 8
I miss Data, he was one of the best characters on the show.
srvfan454 2 years ago 70
yrs he was.
wadyano 2 years ago 3
Did anyone else notice the little similarity between that exchange at the end and a conversation between Spock and McCoy in the episode "The Immunity Syndrome" of Star Trek TOS, or was it just me?
(.....oh my gosh, I really have gone over the deep end... I'm even geekier than I was a few months ago, and I didn't think that was possible.... o.o)
YuyuPrincess411 2 years ago 4
lol
wadyano 2 years ago
Man! I love Star Wars but this Star Trek dialog, makes Star Wars dialog seem like a show for retards.
racl101 2 years ago 101
@racl101 AMEN!!! the may the force be with you and concept ringed a bit like God. But it never hit on any real heart like Star Trek. It never made you think. It was all blast em up and hero gets the girl.
Miracle490d 1 year ago 2
@racl101 star wars IS a show for retards. star trek is about more. its about people, relationships, life ,growing, learning , friendship, loss and the bond that holds us all together . star wars is about aliens and things that go boom-boom.
TheSpiritDennyColt 1 year ago
@TheSpiritDennyColt, come on that's too harsh. Star Wars is about more than that. It's classic epic storytelling. It's not as deep as Star Trek by any means, but it's much shorter so how could it be?
theinquisitor 1 year ago
@theinquisitor I think that Star Trek and Star Wars are equally deep and good, just very, very different in how those qualities are represented. In Star Wars, it's done through an epic archetypal story that's closely tied to human nature. In Star Trek, it's through different reflections of humanity using situations and characters that question common assumptions. Trek may be broader (more hours of screentime, people!), but I don't think either of them are shallower.
grumpytosnowwhite 1 year ago
@grumpytosnowwhite
I agree. I love both Star Trek and Star Wars including Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis.
TheStarTreker 1 year ago
@racl101 Heh, whenever I see the words "Star Wars" I mentally translate it as "Space Chivalry". Good vs bad, not exactly probing the depths of human psyche, what can enable a good person to do evil, etc.
Star Trek reminds me of The Twilight Zone due to the social interactions in varying circumstances. Helps to promote/encourage empathy I'd say.
Probablyacowtbh 1 year ago
@racl101 lol..
TheBlomberFactory 7 months ago
@racl101
Star Wars = pulp sci-fi, action, adventure.
Star Trek = Speculative sci-fi, drama, adventure
SweetZombiJesus 7 months ago 3
The last sentence in this clip is so true...
mightymix101 3 years ago 13
Yes, very true. That's the type of sentence you would hear from a humanitarian. If only humans could stop fighting all the time and make peace with each other we would live in a better world.
LordTyrannus 2 years ago 13
then u couldnt ever stop crying, cause every second someone is dying somewhere.
Zatzzo 2 years ago
Nice...
tekken000 3 years ago
I think there should have been more Noonian Soong episodes, i think the man who could build a machanoid do emulate a human being in almost every way, is a topic with far greater depth than was explored in TNG.
wagnerologist1984 3 years ago 12
Spiner is just the most beautiful man I've ever seen. It's impossible not to get sucked right into any character he plays.
SnarkLicker 3 years ago 12
i prefere Data the way he looks now, brent looks like hes put on a few pounds, since farpoint.
wagnerologist1984 3 years ago
wagnerologist: agreed.
SnarkLicker 3 years ago
*snicker*
tigercubgurlie 3 years ago 2
Ditto, but it happens. People get older; metabolism slows down, etc. It doesn't change what really matters.
churchmousie 2 years ago
Data was the most brilliant character in star trek.
preinfixed 3 years ago 18
was? still is :)
prettylittlesomethin 3 years ago 15
No he died in Star Trek Nemesis.
obsedian865 3 years ago
Maybe not. There are always... possibilities.
theinquisitor 3 years ago
"Fascinating."
ale89515 3 years ago 3
As a small boy I grew up on tng, and it continues to have an influence on my life even today as a college student. I loved the characters and their development throughout the series, the lessons you learn, and the excitement at the start of each episode of the mystery to come, which is beyond imagination. Particulary, I envy Picard and data and the chemistry between them. I can think of no other show that's more uplifting in its transformation of hope into something tangible and realistic.
msav111 3 years ago 6
spot on . i totally agree. if money was no object to me i'd pay all the characters to keep on making tng FOREVER!!!!!
5744ellis 3 years ago 4
hear hear
prettylittlesomethin 3 years ago
and if any of u guys die ill cry for you.
msav111 3 years ago
Star Trek had some good lessons in it. By the way... The new Star Trek movie is coming out next year.
NoogahOogah 3 years ago
Data Data Data DAAATAAAAAAA !!! I LOVE YOU MY GOD !!!!
C'est vraiment le meilleurs des meilleurs ! Y a pas à dire, c'est Data en force !!
andreaeckhart 3 years ago
um, can we share? maybe?
lacrimexdixgioia 3 years ago 3
This is the only scene worth watching from that episode.
Data is the best : )
reneen1018 4 years ago
Aww, Data!
shannonm75 4 years ago
Oh Data. If only we could all be a little more innocent... as you were in this moment.
starryhawk 4 years ago 7
he is ALWAYS innocent. exept when he got dirty with the borg queen....well, even then i suppose.
themysteriouskiller 3 years ago 7
I disagree, I don't think he really stays innocent, he goes through too much, but he's just such a good person that life hasn't dented his enthusiam for his and all life.
kendrawhisp 2 years ago 9
Fantastic ^.^
LouisLambert 4 years ago
Riker is so dead on
TheDoodlibop 4 years ago 6
Data is so right.
RichardSwayne 4 years ago 5
since your death, how well bering on deck
absence
loss more intensity feelings run high
] keenly human les
mooves>
Socrates> ode ot Frames os Minds.
pets tiger
ePhilosopher 5 years ago
timber means give
ePhilosopher 5 years ago
Khidir beneath Momouteh. Shaka, when the walls fell.
theinquisitor 5 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
niagra falls , in minuet
isn't that in D?in alaska?
(here's the film noire) RIKER
et tu Spot Ode ona Grecian Sublime
or was it the tasha yar at niagra falls
twist L007 they say that to corinthian leather
captureed fouurr the qquuueeen toooooooo
lose syncopated section in one of the songs—a part that had taken me hours to learn—and Nick turned to me and said, "Do you think you could solo over that?" Socrates?
ePhilosopher 5 years ago
Is this like, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra or something? Are we supposed to know what this means? O_o
churchmousie 2 years ago 3
omg I NEVER got that line our of my head.
cassandra5322 2 years ago
Great clip!
Estetus 5 years ago