Much of the meanness, done by folk who like being mean, would most likely be far less, if the YouTube environment was not anonymous... If that meanie were standing face to face with the person on the receiving end of said meanness, they'd probably be far less mean to them... So the buffer zone of anonymity , I think is an enabler, but it's also a necessity... So the meany's answer is "So what are ya gonna do about it, cry baby?", just more cruelty................. Unfortunately.
@Opinionator52 I agree with everything except the "necessity" part. Anonymity is a choice that YT has made, for reasons I understand, but which has made the environment ripe for trolling. We all take that as a given and as part of the territory but it's not the only approach. Facebook, for example, takes a different one. Thanks for your comment.
@tlg847 I have no real problem with people knowing my identity, but I have seen people get so angry, in what could be a civil debate, that they wanted to find the other person, and do harm to them... That's unexceptable because the same guy wanting to do the other harm may post a bogus true identity and also be unafraid of the consequences... I don't know, something to think about...
Well, I've seen it, too. But, I'm not talking about people who have personality disorders, I'm talking about the run-of-the-mill person who wants to live in the world and who experiences normal human emotions. High school cruelty isn't the standard I think we want to set for our society. I know you never "endorsed" this but maybe you're too quick to excuse it. Thanks.
Here's the difference. In school, people felt some restraint on expressing their worst thoughts about her. They had to watch her experience the pain of their derision, her tears, her shame. They then had to experience their own shame, their guilt at having attacked a defenseless human being, gratuitously, insensitively, cruelly. Here: fuck it. She's a gimp. She's a crip. Who gives a fuck? That's the difference. Is this the way you want your life to be remembered?
I think you speak well, and i agree with you. I have been the victim of this sort of behaviour, and i still am but i am determined to ignore it. I think if my hater came face to face with me in the street he would not say a word to me, but here online, sitting behind an anonymous monitor it is easy to say hateful things knowing you can't be ever found out and exposed
Thank you, Sir. Under the circumstances I am honored to hold you as a cordial non-friend.
Also, under the circumstances, I feel it is my obligation to inform you that should the "V" word ever be invoked all cordial non-friend obligations may be revoked.
There are some limits to which a man's conscience will allow him to bend and the gatling guns of my black helicopter are fully loaded with rounds of Kubuntu thumb drives.
Oh Lord, cut us some us some Slack and Viva la Revolución.
Tom I have to disagree with you in your statement that cruelty lives in each of us. As a person who has a disfiguring disability from an Arthritic Disease. I want to state you have to find your own tools to deal with every day situations. The world of YouTube is no different then the world we live in each day. Take the blinds off no amount of cruelty sent my way will ever have me leaving YouTube and it is in our disabilities we have more strength from experience to carry on thank you! :) David
Thanks for the comment, David. I'm afraid I think we do all have cruelty in us AND that most of us manage that cruelty through our connectedness with our fellow humans. As you know, learning to live with cruelty is a challenge we all have to face. In life, we can manage (not control) our relationships so that we can MINIMIZE (not eliminate) cruelty. Here, the tools to do so are not very effective. I admire your strength.
I think our YouTube communities can only mimic the real thing. It's almost like a make-believe community. In a real community you physically interact, and you can't make the neighbors barking dog disappear with the click of the mouse. I am sure some of my concepts would change if I met a YouTube friend in person.
I wish you would do a video about the experience of knowing someone via viral video then meeting them in real life. Some of us will never experience that side of YouTube.
pt 3! damaged behaviour. I don't think it will get better once 'civility' is developed, I think that the only thing that will work, given the inherent anonymity and isolation of the internet medium, is an effective watchdog. I'm not an IT person, so I can't answer the how. But I've seen this behaviour on uni websites among enrolled students when they thought they were anonymous. With the anonymity gone, so was the abuse. Just a couple of (long!) thoughts! Thanks again for your vids!
Pt 2! And they are quite skilled at choosing their targets. I feel sad for the perpetrators, I feel sad for the victims too, but in a way, sadder for the perpetrators, cos' that's all they know! And I believe that every time they injure another they actually damage themselves more. I actually don't agree with your theory about civility needing to be built up in this medium. I think what we're seeing has always been there, but the internet provides a forum that spotlights these people's....
Thanks for your vid! Very thoughtful! Here's a couple of my thoughts on the issue: you are right that we all (almost) have cruelty and love within us, it is a continuum like anything else I believe. From working with children with 'behaviour' issues I have seen this cruelty up close. I believe that the majority of children/people who are quite cruel are damaged, they haven't received the love, care and protection that all children deserve. So they enjoy spreading the damage.
I agree with what you are saying, however cruel people whom are making hurtful statements don't care what you say & think. This gives them an advantage in this situation that you can't do anything about. You can't force someone to care. I know in my own personal situation, if someone has some wise ass comment about me I just consider them another satisfied customer, & if a reply is needed "COWARD" is always the perfect retort. As it is always accurately describes the anonymous wise ass !
Anonymity gives cowards courage. Amazing how quickly people care about what you say and think when you know their name and address. The "advantage" you refer to disappears instantly.
I think some kids and those not mentally grown up don't see a difference between watching a TV movie and telling the characters how stupid they are, and watching a video here and commenting on how stupid the poster is.
Of course we have to take the reality of our circumstances into account in any situation. What's possible, however, is different from what exists. Thanks.
That is an amazing quote. I'll have to slap that on my desktop. A word to both the cruel and the lazy, I would say. While I do my best not to be either, I have to admit I'm a bit of the latter. ^_
Fortunately, I got to read this story twice, but this time without the stout and chips! Dwelling in the darkest parts of ourselves has predictable, disastrous results. Thanks again.
I think desensitization (you Brits spell everything with a "zed" wrong!) is a huge problem. I think I need to make a video about that issue... Thanks.
A truly noble epitaph, indeed! "Done in by Gates, ordinarynerd sacrificed himself for a fellow human being, with a brewski and some chips." Not bad at all, man! Thanks.
Tom, I think a large part of the problem is that these people who do this ARE in fact children who haven't yet learned "right from wrong" and there are no tools in place to show them in the online world or to prevent them from wreaking havoc.
i think a big problem is that a vast majority of people frequent youtube to watch videos and just be entertained. if they are not entertained, they often times feel offended at the notion that a video, from their narrow minded viewpoint, wasted their time...a video that they were never specifically invited to watch. people criticize these videos as harshly as tv or movies and dont yet associate many of them being windows into the lives of real people. simple ignorance is incredibly complicated..
I wonder how the milgram experiment would unfold if the teacher and student were introduced to each other. would the teacher administer shocks at the prodding of the authority if they thought they knew the person they shocked. they felt responsibility to the authority and followed the prodding to increase the shock.
Anonymity shelters people from responsibility.
Is it possible that online cruelty keeps some from cruelty in the real world?
As for your question, it's the old psychoanalytic vs. behaviorism argument. Does symbolic violence release the pressure valve or does it reinforce and solidify violent behavior? I think the evidence is that we become what we think about: fill your day with hatred and, by definition, you become hateful. Thanks.
Communities in the real world use ridicule and shame as a social inhibitor of bad behaviour. I think that the cyber community has to develop similar, to shame those less socially developed members into an acceptable level of conformity. When bad behaviour goes unpunished, and the perpetrators allowed to bully others without reprisal, the unwanted behaviour will continue to flourish. If everyone shunned those who think being mean is good, they would have no one to impress or get attention from.
I agree completely. I believe shame and ridicule have developed as evolutionary tools to enable socialization. What we have online today is an aberration, which I believe we'll eventually remedy. Thanks.
i remember carl jung wrote once (cant remember where, forgive me) that the number of undiagnosed psychosis is far greater than those who are receiving treatment. and as a result he said that as they gather together they are more easily influenced and (i'm paraphrasing, of course) as they find a resonance to their psychosis they will rise up and the evils of their disorder will become normalized. i think we are seeing it manifested online...
I worked in institutions for seriously mentally ill people for over 6 years. I can tell you this: behavior generates like behavior. Whether it's in a psychiatric ward, on a soccer pitch or an online website people affect one another, for sure. Thanks.
[cont] I think the only way to make the internet less cruel is to somehow tie our internet identities to our real identities and force us to take accountability for our actions.
It's not easy, that's for sure Regina. I believe accountability for online behavior will eventually be just as natural as it is everywhere else. Thanks.
Assigning accountability is a key to social interaction everywhere in life. I can't believe it won't eventually be extended to online life as well. Thanks.
I think the internet is sort of like a prison society, not because it's unpleasant, but because you enter with no identity, and whatever wealth or status you have offline (except for the very famous or richest) is irrelevant when you come online. Also, actions online very rarely have any sort of lasting effect on your life because of the anonymity afforded.
I'm sure we're a little more able to put words to the experiences we have, or to help others to describe their own more clearly, S, but I don't believe we're any more sensitive than anyone else. Thanks.
Sobering thoughts about the cruelty here being part of human nature, and yet a positive attitude about being able to create a space where we can get beyond that. Great vlog (worth the processing wait).
Thanks. We love to marginalize cruel people but it's a lot harder to recognize those same attributes in ourselves. I sure hope we can succeed in creating the place we've envisioned. Talk soon.
Much good food for thought. I think an important fact that you didn't mention is that a lot of the barbaric behavior stems from the fact that people can behave in these childish ways ANONYMOUSLY. Fear of peer chastisement is a prime motivator for some people to maintain civil behavior. As we learn to build communities where everyone has a verified identity (implying ultimate accountability) perhaps we can have a higher standard of civil behavior. Great, thought provoking post.
Yes, anonymity and lack of consequences is the key to the proliferation of most online misbehavior. Verified identity can resolve many of those problems. Thanks.
"anonymous hatred"...that is one of the setbacks with the Internet. A person can practice hatred without any accountability or face to the words, over and over...Our brains are sponges..what we feed it and what we practice does mold our beings. Many people wouldnt say or do what they type but unfortunately, their hearts can be harden and become less human simply by typing. ~Raven
There have been many studies that demonstrate the power of circumstances on our civility, Raven. Anonymity brings out the worst in us. Of course, not suffering consequences makes it worse. Thanks.
It also brings out the best in us. Which it brings out is in the nature of the person, not the anonymity.
The horrors of the Inquisition and of the Holocaust were performed by people who boldly showed their faces in public. They were opposed by many who did not, because if they did their opposition was swiftly silenced by death.
Anonymity protects by relieving fear of retribution, but it protects the just in equal degree to which it protects the unjust.
I had to do a paper during undergrad on "what is civilization". It had a 20 page minimum requirement. Much research went into it obviously because I needed examples. I came to the conclusion that true civilization does not exist because there will always be fighting over who is the strongest and someone will always be fighting to be in charge. This is what mean people do - they exercise their need for power in cruelity. Our response should always be to respond like we refuse to stand for it.
I seem to be short about 20 pages of padding and I've never been one to take padding for the sake of an arbitrary parameter kindly.
All other things which we take to be "civilization" I think you will find (indeed, have found) to be nothing more than local customs rather than any defining element of civilization itself.
Indeed, in terms of behavior, nomadic tribes are often far more "civilized" than the civilized.
Civilization has been the excuse for many behaviors throughout time. For example, imperialism led to many events and behaviors under the unbrella of 'civilization'.
Because this discussion can be serious and continue for a long time, allow me the humor and say that in out society, I am glad nose picking in public is not accepted. Civilization!!!! :0)
Wow! It took 3 hours for this video to become available. Jeff Atwood of Coding Horror blog fame recently wrote about the sad case of Kathy Sierra. I was shocked that even an IT professional blogger could be subjected to this kind of intimidation and blind hatred.
Much of the meanness, done by folk who like being mean, would most likely be far less, if the YouTube environment was not anonymous... If that meanie were standing face to face with the person on the receiving end of said meanness, they'd probably be far less mean to them... So the buffer zone of anonymity , I think is an enabler, but it's also a necessity... So the meany's answer is "So what are ya gonna do about it, cry baby?", just more cruelty................. Unfortunately.
Opinionator52 9 months ago
@Opinionator52 I agree with everything except the "necessity" part. Anonymity is a choice that YT has made, for reasons I understand, but which has made the environment ripe for trolling. We all take that as a given and as part of the territory but it's not the only approach. Facebook, for example, takes a different one. Thanks for your comment.
tlg847 9 months ago
@tlg847 I have no real problem with people knowing my identity, but I have seen people get so angry, in what could be a civil debate, that they wanted to find the other person, and do harm to them... That's unexceptable because the same guy wanting to do the other harm may post a bogus true identity and also be unafraid of the consequences... I don't know, something to think about...
Opinionator52 9 months ago
youtube is amazingg!!!!!!!!!!!! u can share ur thoughts i JUST LOVE IT (: AND HOW the nice people share there comments (:
SaRahJaNe01100 1 year ago
when i saw the video in the related videos, i thought you were lewis black. darn!
ItOnlyTakes4 3 years ago
It's nice to have someone use the word "mature," rather than, "crusty old fart who should die"! Thanks.
tlg847 3 years ago
Well, I've seen it, too. But, I'm not talking about people who have personality disorders, I'm talking about the run-of-the-mill person who wants to live in the world and who experiences normal human emotions. High school cruelty isn't the standard I think we want to set for our society. I know you never "endorsed" this but maybe you're too quick to excuse it. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Here's the difference. In school, people felt some restraint on expressing their worst thoughts about her. They had to watch her experience the pain of their derision, her tears, her shame. They then had to experience their own shame, their guilt at having attacked a defenseless human being, gratuitously, insensitively, cruelly. Here: fuck it. She's a gimp. She's a crip. Who gives a fuck? That's the difference. Is this the way you want your life to be remembered?
tlg847 4 years ago
I'm sorry to delete the video reply I made, Tom, but the sound was just too awful.
You forget something very important. Anonymity brings out the worst in very many people.
Marihani 4 years ago
I think you speak well, and i agree with you. I have been the victim of this sort of behaviour, and i still am but i am determined to ignore it. I think if my hater came face to face with me in the street he would not say a word to me, but here online, sitting behind an anonymous monitor it is easy to say hateful things knowing you can't be ever found out and exposed
x hugs x
twish1999 4 years ago
Thank you, Sir. Under the circumstances I am honored to hold you as a cordial non-friend.
Also, under the circumstances, I feel it is my obligation to inform you that should the "V" word ever be invoked all cordial non-friend obligations may be revoked.
There are some limits to which a man's conscience will allow him to bend and the gatling guns of my black helicopter are fully loaded with rounds of Kubuntu thumb drives.
Oh Lord, cut us some us some Slack and Viva la Revolución.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."
Immanuel Kant
[Obama yesterday used the simple version of the categorical imperative in his speech about race and politics....]
ogier1 4 years ago
I'm glad you noticed Obama's version, too. I was beginning to think I was hearing and seeing things just because I'm interested in them! Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Tom I have to disagree with you in your statement that cruelty lives in each of us. As a person who has a disfiguring disability from an Arthritic Disease. I want to state you have to find your own tools to deal with every day situations. The world of YouTube is no different then the world we live in each day. Take the blinds off no amount of cruelty sent my way will ever have me leaving YouTube and it is in our disabilities we have more strength from experience to carry on thank you! :) David
DandCVideos 4 years ago
Thanks for the comment, David. I'm afraid I think we do all have cruelty in us AND that most of us manage that cruelty through our connectedness with our fellow humans. As you know, learning to live with cruelty is a challenge we all have to face. In life, we can manage (not control) our relationships so that we can MINIMIZE (not eliminate) cruelty. Here, the tools to do so are not very effective. I admire your strength.
tlg847 4 years ago
Nobel indeed...
renetto 4 years ago
I think our YouTube communities can only mimic the real thing. It's almost like a make-believe community. In a real community you physically interact, and you can't make the neighbors barking dog disappear with the click of the mouse. I am sure some of my concepts would change if I met a YouTube friend in person.
I wish you would do a video about the experience of knowing someone via viral video then meeting them in real life. Some of us will never experience that side of YouTube.
Frank
ockteby 4 years ago
""Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." is very good advice"
I am a masochist. Please bend over, I assure you this is going be quite painful.
You can thank me later.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago 2
". . .my final earthly act is installing Windows XP for a friend."
With all due respect, Sir, please; do not befriend me.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago
pt 3! damaged behaviour. I don't think it will get better once 'civility' is developed, I think that the only thing that will work, given the inherent anonymity and isolation of the internet medium, is an effective watchdog. I'm not an IT person, so I can't answer the how. But I've seen this behaviour on uni websites among enrolled students when they thought they were anonymous. With the anonymity gone, so was the abuse. Just a couple of (long!) thoughts! Thanks again for your vids!
juliact 4 years ago
Pt 2! And they are quite skilled at choosing their targets. I feel sad for the perpetrators, I feel sad for the victims too, but in a way, sadder for the perpetrators, cos' that's all they know! And I believe that every time they injure another they actually damage themselves more. I actually don't agree with your theory about civility needing to be built up in this medium. I think what we're seeing has always been there, but the internet provides a forum that spotlights these people's....
juliact 4 years ago
Thanks for your vid! Very thoughtful! Here's a couple of my thoughts on the issue: you are right that we all (almost) have cruelty and love within us, it is a continuum like anything else I believe. From working with children with 'behaviour' issues I have seen this cruelty up close. I believe that the majority of children/people who are quite cruel are damaged, they haven't received the love, care and protection that all children deserve. So they enjoy spreading the damage.
juliact 4 years ago
Thank you..........These things need to be said!
Hugs*
Have a wonderful week!
LadyJava
LadyJavaJitters 4 years ago
They will. I believe in Carma.
Marihani 4 years ago
Great video.
periurban 4 years ago
Thanks, Peri.
tlg847 4 years ago
I agree with what you are saying, however cruel people whom are making hurtful statements don't care what you say & think. This gives them an advantage in this situation that you can't do anything about. You can't force someone to care. I know in my own personal situation, if someone has some wise ass comment about me I just consider them another satisfied customer, & if a reply is needed "COWARD" is always the perfect retort. As it is always accurately describes the anonymous wise ass !
crawleykakes 4 years ago
Anonymity gives cowards courage. Amazing how quickly people care about what you say and think when you know their name and address. The "advantage" you refer to disappears instantly.
tlg847 4 years ago
I think some kids and those not mentally grown up don't see a difference between watching a TV movie and telling the characters how stupid they are, and watching a video here and commenting on how stupid the poster is.
erra404 4 years ago
Well, the more we portray ourselves like TV characters, the more likely we are to be treated that way. Good observation. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
As always, great video, Tom.
Gimmeabreakman 4 years ago
Thanks, Victor. Much appreciated.
tlg847 4 years ago
It's too bad we're still in the stage we're in. I know it has affected my willingness to make and share videos.
Thanks for the thoughts on us evolving.
ghostwise 4 years ago
Of course we have to take the reality of our circumstances into account in any situation. What's possible, however, is different from what exists. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
That is an amazing quote. I'll have to slap that on my desktop. A word to both the cruel and the lazy, I would say. While I do my best not to be either, I have to admit I'm a bit of the latter. ^_
Magnulus 4 years ago
Agree completely. Shielding is good enough, though. That's all we can do anywhere in life. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Fortunately, I got to read this story twice, but this time without the stout and chips! Dwelling in the darkest parts of ourselves has predictable, disastrous results. Thanks again.
tlg847 4 years ago
I think desensitization (you Brits spell everything with a "zed" wrong!) is a huge problem. I think I need to make a video about that issue... Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
A truly noble epitaph, indeed! "Done in by Gates, ordinarynerd sacrificed himself for a fellow human being, with a brewski and some chips." Not bad at all, man! Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Tom, I think a large part of the problem is that these people who do this ARE in fact children who haven't yet learned "right from wrong" and there are no tools in place to show them in the online world or to prevent them from wreaking havoc.
Argentium009 4 years ago
Agree completely, Mike. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Another insightful video! And again, the comments add even more to the discussion. We do have many good members in this community!
KennyWrites 4 years ago
Thanks, Kenny. Yup, lots and lots of good people here, for sure.
tlg847 4 years ago
mikma was here
mikma 4 years ago
Hi, Mik.
tlg847 4 years ago
i think a big problem is that a vast majority of people frequent youtube to watch videos and just be entertained. if they are not entertained, they often times feel offended at the notion that a video, from their narrow minded viewpoint, wasted their time...a video that they were never specifically invited to watch. people criticize these videos as harshly as tv or movies and dont yet associate many of them being windows into the lives of real people. simple ignorance is incredibly complicated..
meltona 4 years ago
I read those "I want my X minutes back" comments all the time. They astonish me.
tlg847 4 years ago
your wisdom is very much appreciated
hellorodney 4 years ago
Thanks, Rodney. Hang in there...
tlg847 4 years ago
I can relate heavily to your Sicilian part.
OhCurt 4 years ago
Well...it's there, I'll tell you that! Thanks, Curt.
tlg847 4 years ago
I wonder how the milgram experiment would unfold if the teacher and student were introduced to each other. would the teacher administer shocks at the prodding of the authority if they thought they knew the person they shocked. they felt responsibility to the authority and followed the prodding to increase the shock.
Anonymity shelters people from responsibility.
Is it possible that online cruelty keeps some from cruelty in the real world?
peace.
cambridgee 4 years ago
I think the results would be very different.
As for your question, it's the old psychoanalytic vs. behaviorism argument. Does symbolic violence release the pressure valve or does it reinforce and solidify violent behavior? I think the evidence is that we become what we think about: fill your day with hatred and, by definition, you become hateful. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
so you think gamers are going to become crazy killers and yt haters will bring that hate into the real world.
I believe that internet haters are more likely to be very meek in the real world.
protected by anonymity they can feel empowered just a little bit...if they get a reaction.
When they receive no reaction they move on.
just my guess.
peace.
cambridgee 4 years ago
You seem to be operating under the assumption that symbolic violence is undertaken with the same motivation of hatred as real violence.
I believe you are mistaken and should examine that assumption.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago
Communities in the real world use ridicule and shame as a social inhibitor of bad behaviour. I think that the cyber community has to develop similar, to shame those less socially developed members into an acceptable level of conformity. When bad behaviour goes unpunished, and the perpetrators allowed to bully others without reprisal, the unwanted behaviour will continue to flourish. If everyone shunned those who think being mean is good, they would have no one to impress or get attention from.
LillithePink 4 years ago
I agree completely. I believe shame and ridicule have developed as evolutionary tools to enable socialization. What we have online today is an aberration, which I believe we'll eventually remedy. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
i remember carl jung wrote once (cant remember where, forgive me) that the number of undiagnosed psychosis is far greater than those who are receiving treatment. and as a result he said that as they gather together they are more easily influenced and (i'm paraphrasing, of course) as they find a resonance to their psychosis they will rise up and the evils of their disorder will become normalized. i think we are seeing it manifested online...
HowLongCanUMakeAName 4 years ago
I worked in institutions for seriously mentally ill people for over 6 years. I can tell you this: behavior generates like behavior. Whether it's in a psychiatric ward, on a soccer pitch or an online website people affect one another, for sure. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Lord of the flies anyone???
LilCav68 4 years ago
Exactly. And that's an unsustainable situation.
tlg847 4 years ago
[cont] I think the only way to make the internet less cruel is to somehow tie our internet identities to our real identities and force us to take accountability for our actions.
LizzieSpark 4 years ago
I agree on this one! People have to be made responsible for their behaviour. Which I find difficult sometimes even in real life.
mixedpixel 4 years ago
It's not easy, that's for sure Regina. I believe accountability for online behavior will eventually be just as natural as it is everywhere else. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Assigning accountability is a key to social interaction everywhere in life. I can't believe it won't eventually be extended to online life as well. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
I think the internet is sort of like a prison society, not because it's unpleasant, but because you enter with no identity, and whatever wealth or status you have offline (except for the very famous or richest) is irrelevant when you come online. Also, actions online very rarely have any sort of lasting effect on your life because of the anonymity afforded.
LizzieSpark 4 years ago
I'm sure we're a little more able to put words to the experiences we have, or to help others to describe their own more clearly, S, but I don't believe we're any more sensitive than anyone else. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Sobering thoughts about the cruelty here being part of human nature, and yet a positive attitude about being able to create a space where we can get beyond that. Great vlog (worth the processing wait).
kenrg 4 years ago
Thanks. We love to marginalize cruel people but it's a lot harder to recognize those same attributes in ourselves. I sure hope we can succeed in creating the place we've envisioned. Talk soon.
tlg847 4 years ago
Much good food for thought. I think an important fact that you didn't mention is that a lot of the barbaric behavior stems from the fact that people can behave in these childish ways ANONYMOUSLY. Fear of peer chastisement is a prime motivator for some people to maintain civil behavior. As we learn to build communities where everyone has a verified identity (implying ultimate accountability) perhaps we can have a higher standard of civil behavior. Great, thought provoking post.
javajini 4 years ago
Yes, anonymity and lack of consequences is the key to the proliferation of most online misbehavior. Verified identity can resolve many of those problems. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
"anonymous hatred"...that is one of the setbacks with the Internet. A person can practice hatred without any accountability or face to the words, over and over...Our brains are sponges..what we feed it and what we practice does mold our beings. Many people wouldnt say or do what they type but unfortunately, their hearts can be harden and become less human simply by typing. ~Raven
RadicalComedy 4 years ago
There have been many studies that demonstrate the power of circumstances on our civility, Raven. Anonymity brings out the worst in us. Of course, not suffering consequences makes it worse. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
It also brings out the best in us. Which it brings out is in the nature of the person, not the anonymity.
The horrors of the Inquisition and of the Holocaust were performed by people who boldly showed their faces in public. They were opposed by many who did not, because if they did their opposition was swiftly silenced by death.
Anonymity protects by relieving fear of retribution, but it protects the just in equal degree to which it protects the unjust.
Do not write your name on your ballot.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago
I had to do a paper during undergrad on "what is civilization". It had a 20 page minimum requirement. Much research went into it obviously because I needed examples. I came to the conclusion that true civilization does not exist because there will always be fighting over who is the strongest and someone will always be fighting to be in charge. This is what mean people do - they exercise their need for power in cruelity. Our response should always be to respond like we refuse to stand for it.
LilCav68 4 years ago
Civilization is living in settled groups.
I seem to be short about 20 pages of padding and I've never been one to take padding for the sake of an arbitrary parameter kindly.
All other things which we take to be "civilization" I think you will find (indeed, have found) to be nothing more than local customs rather than any defining element of civilization itself.
Indeed, in terms of behavior, nomadic tribes are often far more "civilized" than the civilized.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago
Civilization has been the excuse for many behaviors throughout time. For example, imperialism led to many events and behaviors under the unbrella of 'civilization'.
Because this discussion can be serious and continue for a long time, allow me the humor and say that in out society, I am glad nose picking in public is not accepted. Civilization!!!! :0)
LilCav68 4 years ago
Wow! It took 3 hours for this video to become available. Jeff Atwood of Coding Horror blog fame recently wrote about the sad case of Kathy Sierra. I was shocked that even an IT professional blogger could be subjected to this kind of intimidation and blind hatred.
robrobbins 4 years ago
Kathy's case is one of the more horrendous among bloggers. I have to say, though, folks on YT, especially women, have undergone worse. Thanks.
tlg847 4 years ago
Interesting and well said. I like to keep in mind too that some people are just plain mean.
pcrudup 4 years ago
I think it's a good thing to remember...lots of people live that out daily.
tlg847 4 years ago
I have officially renamed the site "SepticTube". Is that mean? :)
UpDownMostly 4 years ago
The opportunity is too great not to try to implement, Tim.
tlg847 4 years ago
I understand the sentiment and have found it tempting, but for my own part I have been calling it YentaTube for some months.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago