here are a couple of more sites I know off the top of my head, may Jesus Christ deliver you from traditions of men & fear.
Bible-truths(.com)
Bible Threatenings Explained (google)
Kingdombiblestudies(.org)
Martin Zender(.com)
richardwaynegarganta(.com)
salvationofall(org)
Universalsalvation(.org)
I have learned so much from each of the above sites, I truly am set free in Jesus Christ, I am ecstatic about Jesus & what HIS life blood has done for ALL mankind on the cross, God BlesS
@HillShort I was raised baptist with traditional "hell fire/eternal torture chamber" doctrine, I love God & want to know him so even when I believed there was a "hell" I still loved God, 1 day about 3 months ago I googled " Is hell real" ? Well then a whole new world & understanding opened up to me. Zenmiester? LOL I really enjoy Martin Zender he is funny and makes really good points, not every minister is this unfortunately :( In next comment I will share resources I have found.
@HillShort (resources) What-theHell-isHell (google) , Tentmaker(.org) Martin Zender (.com) Savior-of-all(.com) (google) Bible Threatenings Explained (google) ,godsplanforall(.com) ,Kindombiblestudies(.org) bible-truths(.com) & Universalsalvation(org) One site sometime leads to another, this is PLENTY of info to get you started, I am so glad God showed me this, however many "christians" will rebel against this info and stick with their traditions, hope this helps GodBless You!
@Lrothtube Wow! Thanks so much for the thorough response. I checked out the first site (whatthehellishell). It was really interesting. The intro post claimed the scriptures regarding hell can't be trusted. But it also used scriptures to help make this claim. How can some be true and some be false? In other words, how do you pick and choose which ones you can trust and which ones you can rely on?
@HillShort What the person is trying to convey is not so much the scripture but the use of "hell" IN the scripture is incorrect. Just keep looking at the sites I have shared and I promise it will all start to come together. "Hell" is SUBSTITUTED for Hades, or Sheol, or sometimes Tartarus, or Gehenna, which all these words are either Greek or Hebrew, in
FACT the world "hell" is not Aramaic & this is the language Jesus used, so he could not have even USED hell. Keep searching, God Bless You!!
@Lrothtube Once again, thanks for the response. I'm enjoying learning more and more about your views. This doesn't quite answer my question though. If even one verse, such as one about hell, is wrong in the scripture, than how can we trust any other verses to be accurate? Such as "all scripture is god breathed and useful for teaching" (2 Tim 3:16)? Doesn't it seem that it has to be either all true or all false?
@HillShort I think what is happening is that you are mixing up ORIGINAL text of Hebrew & Greek for lets say the Latin Vulgate, church history teaches that the "priest" held the text from the general public until the REFORMATION. All bibles ARE NOT created equal, Gods' original Holy Spirit inspired scriptures are without & true, alot of the other versions, KJV for example is filled with false translations , ex. KJV uses "hell" 54x, the Youngs literal trans. uses hell=0x, I hope this helps
@Lrothtube First, let me just say thanks. I truly appreciate your engagement. I read a little online about the Youngs Lit. Trans. The reasons they found translation errors were consistent with what you said earlier: that words such as "hades," "gehenna," "tartarus," and "sheol," were mistranslated to mean "hell." Well, those words do mean a place with what English calls "hell." Isn't it the meaning of the word that matters in translating? How exactly do you find this erroneous?
@HillShort Ok lets look at this, as long as "hell" represents the grave, or death, or pit I have no problem with that, what I have a problem with is when people us "hell" as an eternal torture chamber because this is not correct representation then.
@Lrothtube Put another way, I think you would say that god is good. Yet I'm confused on this belief and how it exists with some of your other ones. First, how can a good god allow his written word to his followers to have inconsistencies, and essentially lies? Second, how can a good god forgo defending the good by not punishing evil?
@HillShort Thats like asking why people in Sudan are being mutilated for their faith, I dont know I am only telling you that false mistranslations are maligning the character of God for 1500 years, Paul never taught eternal torture chamber, dont let other mislead "christians" you seek things out on your own and find the truth for yourself in Christ no matter what you end up believing. We all will be judged in fire, the sites I suggested show a lot about God being a consumming fire.
@Lrothtube "find the truth for yourself in Christ no matter what you end up believing"<--If I do check into Christianity further and I end up believing there is a hell, and that I qualify for it, but you believe there's not one, then where am I going when I die?
@HillShort We all will be going through the fire, God is a consuming FIRE, do a study on fire and judgement use a concordance with greek, pt being you have to study for your self, look up scriptures yourself, no matter what anyone one else believes me or the hell fire people, when you die you will be going to the grave JUST LIKE JESUS, then you will be resurrected..JUST LIKE JESUS....
1CORIN15:22For as in Adam ALL die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.
@Lrothtube I thought you didn't trust the Greek, given that you said "hades" shouldn't be translated as "hell" (btw - what would be a correct trans of it?). Assuming you follow your own advice in research, how do you know when to rely on Greek and when not to?
@HillShort The reason why it would behoove all of us to rely on the Greek & Hebrew transcripts because it is THESE that are the ORGINAL penned writings of the Bible. All other "bibles"( I use this loosely) are most times MISTRANSLATED from these original pennings & men along the way have SUBSITUTED words & CHANGED the whole text. Hell IS NOT A GREEK OR HEBREW WORD. Jesus NEVER used hell because it wasnt even around when Jesus was alive. Hades in Greek represents the Grave or Death
@Lrothtube I think this gets back to the question I had earlier in our conversation - isn't the meaning that matters? This is relevant here because as a Classics teacher I can tell you with certainty that Hades in ancient Greek denoted what English calls hell, not the idea of death - but the place people went after death. This is very clear from history, and many books like Homer's Odyssey, for instance describe Hades and what the location and experience is like (including torture).
@Lrothtube Aside from the problem with misunderstanding what Hades means, I think it's also important to be able to answer this question: with this belief, what do you make of verses throughout the biblical text such as those in Revelation that describe hell without using the word "hell?"
@Lrothtube This is an interesting verse. What if someone chooses not to be "in Christ?" What if someone wholly and completely rejects Christ? Are you saying that God forces that person to go to heaven? That really, such rejection was never really a free choice to begin with?
I know I have a lot of questions. You are awesome to stay in this dialogue so long!!
@HillShort This are good questions, you are paying attention, the best way to explain it is in Martin Zenders Presdestination & Gummy Bears video right here on you-tube he does an awesome job of explaining what is really happening of those called now who are the "first-fruits" & those who do not hear the call of Christ now. Check it out when you have the time.
In Act 26:16-18 Jesus had died and went to heaven. Then Jesus then made a visit to paul who was destroying the followers of Christ, Paul was knocked off his horse, then Paul saw a bright light. Jesus commanded paul to now carry the gospel.
.Unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
@Lrothtube Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
@opengates777 Not to worried about it, you dont understand the "ages" or the eons, it is obvious that you do not understand that God is a consuming fire, people need to get off of this LITERAL use of the word fire, it is ridiculous, we are also baptized with the FIRE of the Holy Spirit, um Im on FIRE for Jesus, we go through judgments as through FIRE, oh well not that big of a deal it is all based on scripture, I am sorry that you are afraid of God and share that fear with others
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
@opengates777 Once again, you do not understand audience relevance and who Jesus Christ was speaking to at the time, not us , it was the Jews, look at the whole passage maybe that would help, especially regarding in verse 10 of this chapter the disciples are asking him WHY HE SPOKE IN PARABLES, just pray for discernment, so you know what is really going on, I dont know what to tell you when you use scripture out of context to fry people, good luck with that let me know how that goes for ya!
@Lrothtube Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
@Lrothtube Wow! Thanks so much for the thorough response. I checked out the first site (whatthehellishell(.com). It was really interesting. The intro post claimed the scriptures regarding hell can't be trusted. But it also used scriptures to help make this claim. How can some be true and some be false? In other words, how do you pick and choose which ones you can trust and which ones you can rely on?
Your so focused on the God's judgement which is righteous that you fail to see the massive Love of God's free Gift of Salvation. I pray that true believers aren't decieved by the carnal perspective displayed in this video.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? ~Jesus Christ
@Hebrews1038 No one is disputing Gods judgements,they are meant for correction and restoration. What is being addressed is the false doctrine of "eternal torturechamber" which maligns the character of God, negates Jesus atonement to save ALL, because Jesus has saved ALL, each in their own order based on scripture. The current false teaching of "hell fire"/eternal torture chamber DRIVES men from God, because people instinctively KNOW that a loving God would not do the things falsely taught
@Lrothtube- Judge things by the Spirit. Hell is a place in which is separated from God & His Love. Through His Love He created all good things: love,air,compassion,peace,light,joy,water,etc. How can people think that they will enjoy the pleasures of Heaven with God if they have ignored His Word all of their earthly lives. People who go to Hell choose to go to hell by rejecting Jesus&His message & living a self centered life,failing to understand & carry out God righteous Will for their lives.
@Hebrews1038 Listen, If Jesus Christ has not saved ALL, which according to scripture, he has, then he WOULD HAVE MISSED THE MARK, and fell short of what he came here to accomplish,Dude You SERIOUSLY have to get off of the traditions of man they are killing you and your message, give it up for
Christ sake!!! Stop using the word "choose" to go to hell, use your brain pudding head, none of us chose to be born or sin, we are not choosing our salvation either, get it STRAIGHT!!
@Lrothtube- You must understand that the blood of Jesus PAID for all the Sin's of Mankind, but It is possible for people reject Salvation by their actions in the way you live. Just because a person says their a follower of Christ doesn't mean they will make it to Heaven. Hell is Real. Proof of Hell is in the WORDS of Jesus in Mathew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Read all Matthew Chapter 13.
@Hebrews1038 I really dont think you understand how blasphemous your above statement is. God is Sovereign, meaning HES IN CHARGE, however with your false belief system you must have picked up in some church somewhere YOU HAVE JUST TAKEN GODS SOVEREIGNTY AWAY but putting MAN in charge by CHOOSING or rejecting JESUS, listen GOD CHOOSES US,HE CALLS US WHEN HES DAMN GOOD & READY, we are not apart of the salvation process, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST, but of course you may stick with tradition
@Lrothtube -No blasphemy here, let me explain, there are levels of truth. On a human level it seems that people can choose their fate, for example like what's stated in Joshua 24:15~choose you this day whom ye will serve. (TRUTH) But we know ultimately on God's level He has predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will~Ephesians-1:5 (ALSO TRUTH) Hell is Real, but if we REPENT+follow Jesus=Eternal life with HIM.
@Hebrews1038 I am free in Christ, Jesus died for my sins,(& the whole worlds) no please, where does it say that we have to believe in "hell" to be with Jesus? Do you think Jesus is going to throw me in "hell" for not believing in "hell"? I dont believe in an "eternal torture chamber" somewhere, now am I "saved" or not? LOL LOL, give me the scripture that tells ME I HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THIS PAGAN TORTURE CHAMBER, I never will believe that, that is not MY JESUS, it shouldnt be yours!
@Hebrews1038 Ok People love to use the gnashing of teeth as an example of "eternal torture chamber, when if you look at verse 10 of the same chap. the disciples are asking Jesus WHY HE SPEAKS IN PARABLES? He was addressing the JEWS , NOT us , why dont you look at Bible Threatenings EXPLAINED this may help you really get discernment, unless you are just here to argue because you think you are right, Im not sure but God Bless you in any case.Romans 14:11, I Corinthians 3:12-16 should cover it
@Lrothtube -Yes I see that you understand predestination, but you overlooked one scripture that completely contridicts you theology. Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. This is one of the many passages that lets us know that there is a judgement at the end of the world, & offenders will be casted into a burning fire. REMEMBER: "SO SHALL IT BE IN THE END OF THIS WORLD." "THE WORDS OF JESUS" "UNDENIABLE"
As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this AGE....this is how my translation goes in YLT, there is a HUGE difference between "world" & "age" . I think I have mentioned to you before that it would behoove you to do a study on the "ages" eons or in the Greek "AION" until you know about the "ages" you wont get far in understanding the FULL picture of what Jesus & the Father have planned for us ALL, it does not include TORTURE!
@Hebrews1038 Well Jesus doesnt seem to be too strong of a savior then, I thought Jesus was God, so why dont I just go to the root of the problem & just "reject" Adams fall, sin, & consequential judgment of death on man? I'll just skip right over Jesus, seeing as how Adam is so much MORE POWERFUL THAN JESUS, ill just "reject " Adam instead!
We had no CHOICE in ADAM we have NO CHOICE in Christ, it is an equal eqaution, ADAM=SIN,DEATH, JESUS=LIFE,FORGIVENESS, we just walk in the GRACE & truth
@Hebrews1038 I Corinthians 15; 21. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. Because of Adam’s original disobedience, all men face death. They do not “accept it.” They do not choose it; God chose death for them. They die whether they “believe” in death or not.
38 For I am convinced that neither DEATH nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, WILL BE ABLE TO SEPERATE us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sorry guy, not sure what bible you are reading but, keep pressing in to the Good News of Jesus Christ, he saves ALL of us, dont give up hope!
@Hebrews1038 You say judge by the Spirit & I have, who do you think delivered me from the false doctrine of "eternal torment"?"Hell" if it has to be used at ALL is to REPRESENT the grave or death, NOTHING ELSE!!! Look at historical FACTS!! Jesus spoke aramaic, Hell is not a word that was EVEN AROUND WHEN MEN WHERE PENNING THE SCRIPTURES, for the Love of Jesus Christ GET THIS RIGHT. "Hell"...um...wasnt even used until about 800 AD, youre like a fricking mormon with this brainwash crap.ARRGH!!!
2Pe 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: BUT THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, WHICH ARE NOW, BY THE SAME WORD ARE KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED UNTO FIRE AGAINST THE DAY OF JUDGMENT AND PERDITION OF UNGODLY MEN.
I don't believe in purgatory, but i believe God is coming back with fire instead of a flood.
@Lrothtube -Historical Facts proof that Hell exists! You say the word "Hell" wasn't used until about 800 AD. Likewise the word "Dinosaur" wasn't used until 1841, but we know these creatures existed & called by different names by many cultures, in the Bible also. My point is even in the Old Testament which was written many hundreds of years before Christ, speaks of & gives reference to a place of fiery,burning,pits,chambers & darkness to were the rebellious go to after the first death.
@Lrothtube are you zendermeister? Please forgive my ignorance. When I click on your name I see the same video as above. So are all people automatically saved, no matter what?
bible-truths(.com) really fun place to be, I love it I am growing so much in the Lord at this site, deals with a lot of issues, such as hell, the ages, and so forth...check it out!
If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they haven’t as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?
As you can see WE ALL will be going through "fire", people continually mix up hell( the grave) with the lake of fire, 2 DIFFERENT THINGS PEOPLE. We have to have the ability to RIGHTLY divide the word of TRUTH, personally I can not, and will not serve some demonic god that tortures with fear, and guess what I DONT HAVE TO, none of us do, ITS ALL GOOD PEOPLE, THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS! Jesus IS the SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, some are going to be judged in "fire" more than some, what can you do? LOVE OTHERS!!!
@Lrothtube Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.
1 Peter 1:17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first being at us, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing...
@Lrothtube Your teaching is false! Jesus opened away of salvation on the cross. In Act 26:16-18 Jesus had died and gone to heaven. Jesus then made a visit to paul who was destroying the followers of Christ. Jesus commanded paul to now carry the gospel.
..Unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS;
(CONTINUED) but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in God’s consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!! Listen Bill , we are ALL going to go through the fire, its gonna really sting for ALL of us some more than others but YOU HAVE TO TRUST GOD, he knows what hes doing and it is for our own GOOD & HIS Glory, no big deal, RELAX, be anxious for nothing, pray, its all good!
And there are no Scriptural doctrines or teachings to the contrary. NONE! This IS the Good News Gospel which precious few on this earth have ever heard. It is God’s "WILL" that all mankind be saved (I Tim. 2:4), and God’s "will" WILL be done (Matt. 6:10 and Isaiah 46:10-11)!
@Lrothtube Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: FOR WHICH THINGS SAKE THE WRATH OF GOD COMETH ON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE: In which ye also walked sometime, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication.. Colo 3:5
@TheLordOfHost1 ok, so whats your point? I dont disagree, the unbeliever will be judged, big whooptie jam, Gods judgements are just, All are saved,some now, some later, God does what HE WANTS TO DO , what of it? Not sure what youre trying to tell me, or the torture chamber =Hell, nope, we've been over this, Hell is the Grave, friend, on a side note, why are you always blasting me with Gods judgements? Jesus is my life my love, are you trying to judge me or something? Not sure whats going on here
@SwordofManticorE LOL, they cant, but are you completely amazed , as I am, by people who say they follow Jesus, that want to fry people, I mean they are not joking, it is like they have front row seats to the barbecue or something, I think these are the PIOUS and corrupt minds that is talked about in Timothy 3. As soon as I found out there wasnt an eternal torture chamber I was BESIDE myself WITH JOY, not these folks, fry the biatchs they say, it is really disturbing to me, but I am tough!!
@Lrothtube Sister, it is no secret that those who believe in eternal torment have a hidden desire for vengence. Their interpretation of scripture is based soley by their carnal desires and lack of love for their fellow man. They are like their easter egg. Painted pretty on the outside, but empty inside. Paul teaches us to continue ministering the teaching of reconciliation of all things. If you wish to debate to deaf ears, you waste time on them. Peace be with you.
@SwordofManticorE This revelation is fairly new to me (No eternal torment chamber) like 8 weeks and I guess I was naive, I really thought that "christians" would totally embrace this as I have, after all this is the GOOD NEWS!! At first I was really taken aback by "christian" response, now I am getting used to it real fast LOL, what can you do, I just no that it will NOT stop me from spreading my revelations because it has brought me great Joy, Peace and Comfort, this is the work of God :)
@Lrothtube Isnt it wonderful news. When I first recieved this revelation, I wanted to shout it out to all christians. But I was rebuked and accused a heretic. That didnt bother me so much as the strong impression they gave me about them wanting unbelievers to burn forever. That broke my heart.
2Th 1:7-10 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints..
For the Lord knows the way of the righteous: BUT THE WAY OF THE UNGODLY SHALL PERISH. Psa 1:6. I don't believe in eternal torment.
Act 26:16-18 I Jesus have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Mat 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Luk 13:23-24 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? AND HE SAID UNTO THEM, STRIVE TO ENTER IN AT THE STRAIT GATE: FOR MANY, I SAY UNTO YOU, WILL SEEK TO ENTER IN, AND SHALL NOT BE ABLE.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone..
Rev 9:20-21 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
@SwordofMant Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.
1 Peter 1:17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first being at us, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing...
@SwordofManticorE .....If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, HE IS NONE OF HIS. Rom 8:9.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die ( Adam was a failure ), EVEN SO IN CHRIST shall all be made alive.( Jesus opened away out )
Notice the Bible says, EVEN SO IN CHRIST? Now notice what the Bible says, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO, WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER SPIRIT. 8:1.
@Lrothtube Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
JESUS IS CALLING ALL MEN TO REPENTENCE, BUT MEN REFUSE THE OFFER OF SALVATION.
@TheLordOfHost1 This is true , this is whats happening, however you are forgetting that there are 2 "ages" or eons left, this is not the end of time my friend, some will be purged in fire, cant be helped, it is what it, it is! God is Sovereign, if we can even speak Jesus name out our mouths it is only because of Gods Grace, NONE of what you have shared with me here is going to stop me from sharing the love of God with anyone, Perfect love cast out all fear, I am not afraid, God is in CHARGE!!!
and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation AGE-DURING
2Tim 2:10 10because of this all things do I endure, because of the choice ones, that they also salvation may obtain that [is] in Christ Jesus, with glory AGE-during. Have I mentioned to you about the "ages" or eons? Do you see how a correct translation paints and entirely different picture of the scriptures you use here, If you dont understand the ages you will mislead
We will also see from the Scriptures that God never punishes for the sole purpose of torturing. God always punishes and chastises for the ultimate purpose of correcting, righting, amending, changing, fixing, rectifying, redeeming and saving. That God can and will accomplish these things with every creature in heaven and earth is fully substantiated by hundreds of Scriptures in His Word. I am all over this judgement thing like white on rice, I have found peace, Jesus HAS THIS! Its all good!!
Does God really teach us to "LOVE OUR ENEMIES" while God Himself "HATES OUR LOVED ONES" by destroying most of them for all eternity? This teaching is also blasphemous.
@SwordofManticorE you just keep repeating that when you find yourself in the presence of the Holy One, you might try clicking your heels together and saying there's no place like home while your at it. It will yield the same result, nothing. Be sure and tell God how unjust he is when you are sentenced to the lake of fire. When the heaven and the earth have fled away and you are upheld only by the power of the God you replaced with one more to your liking remember you were warned to repent.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 13of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; 14if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; 15if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire. Dont let a phony"christian" fool you, we ALL GO THROUGH THE FIRE, IT IS GOOD!
Dan 12:1-2 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stand for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book.And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, AND SOME TO SHAME AND EVERLASTING CONTEMPT.
Please do not twist the scriptures. You antichrist
@Lrothtube 1Cr 3:14-16 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KNOW YE NOT THAT YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, AND THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?
1Cr 3:17 IF ANY MAN DEFILE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH YE ARE.
You have a great lack of understanding of scripture.
13of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; 14if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; 15if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.
Awesome, dude you got it Mr. Zender n yea you kick ass!! Get a megaphone and blast this to the world, you are real with yourself that's why you are rewarded with the REAL Holy Spirit not the spirit of religion! You're honest and seriously got some brass balls to teach and even say this, and you will be rewarded as being separate from the Modern Pharisees!! Keep going man, love you dearly and am with you, I HATE "Christianity!! I'm not afraid to say it!! And Jesus would hate it too!
Zender's blend of Plato, Aristotle and Origen yields the other gospel, Jesus and spirit Paul warned us about. It denies the need for faith in Christ and the righteousness, temperance and judgment to come Paul preached to Felix in Acts 24. He uses the beginning of God's revelation of death, hell and the grave to deny the complete revelation made in the new Testament. His seemingly progressive observations are in reality regressive. He confuses umerited with unconditional. Be not decieved.
@mwilson70201 Actually, Paul taught Jesus Saves all, and this makes God Sovereign, God is not depending on MANS "free will" to choose Jesus, God is in control, who chooses us, we dont choose him, Adams sin, the adversary,& MANS CHOICE do not trump the Blood of Christ and if you teach that, it will be YOU that Jesus will say" Depart from me, I never knew you" This is what Jesus will say to ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, Kapeesh? in adam all sin, in Jesus are all vivified, each man in their own order
@Lrothtube Like all UR's you ignore the scriptures that don't support your heresy. Don't tell me what Paul taught until you can accept what he said, you make the bible teach what suits you but deny what it says. Paul preached to Felix of judgment not reconciliation. He wrote that we are saved IF we believe on him who raised Jesus from the dead (Ro. 4:24). He wrote "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (II Tim. 3:13) You and Zender are among them.
@mwilson70201 ok here is just another example of someone who does not understand about the "ages" or eons, there are TWO resurrections, we are in the 3rd age, the millineum is the 4th age or eon, those that believe NOW will be there, those that dont will face judgement, Gods judgements are meant for CORRECTION & restoration, it may be you my friend that is waxing worse by maligning the character of God which is LOVE, lest we forget, learn to interperate CORRECTLY please.
@Lrothtube I am well aware of your idea of aeons after spending several weeks discussing this with AliceSpicer. I understand your mindset and the obstinancy of your heart. I have no righteousness of my own but rather trust only in the Lord Jesus. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness. Your hope is built on your view or interpretation. Sooner than you think we will see who is of God and who isn't, I hope you were born again before you became apostate.
@mwilson70201 You trust Jesus your way, and I will trust Jesus mine, there are alot of people who are coming into the truth about the Character of God, I am a sinner saved only by His Grace, nothing of my own, I live and move and have my being in him, you have to understand that the world his completely sickened by a tortureous God, Jesus showed me the truth I walk in I love God now more than I ever have. I walk in peace, love &joy and am ready to spread the GOOD NEWS of Jesus atonement for ALL
@mwilson70201 It is funny you mention Alice, she is just one among many you will have to contend with when it comes to preaching "torture chamber" I LOVED GOD WHEN I THOUGHT THERE WAS A TORTURE CHAMBER FOR MY LOVED ONES. Jesus delivered me from this doctrine, listen its going around. You cant imagine how I felt when I found out the TRUTH! I am not so arrogant &prideful, that I was not humble and teachable to find out these TRUTHs, what amazes me is how many "christians" cant wait for God to fry
@Lrothtube Dan 7:9- I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: THE JUDGMENT WAS SET, AND BOOKS WERE OPENED....
@mwilson70201 There is NO going back for me, NOW that I understand what the scriptures say I will never believe in "eternal torture" again? Do you think Jesus is going to throw me in hell for not believing in hell? If "every knee bows &EVERY tongue confess Jesus is Lord, do the "every" do this before or after they get thrown in your torture chamber? Answer that one please.So your theology says Adams sin, the adversary, & mans CHOICE trump Jesus' Blood atonement? Have fun explaining that to God!
@mwilson70201 I dont ignore anything these are Pauls words
1 Timothy 4:9-10
Good News Translation (GNT)
9 This is a true saying, to be completely accepted and believed.10 We struggle[a] and work hard, because we have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL and ESPECIALLY of those who believe. Maybe it would behoove you to do a study on Gods judgements, google Bible Threatenings Explained , at least start somewhere to give up youre hopeless RELIGIOUS spirit
@Lrothtube The fact that there is only one Saviour doesn't mean that all are saved. You have to reconcile I Tim 4:9,10 with Romans 4:24, John 3:12; 5:24-29; I Cor 15:1-4 etc. It does not negate the rest of God's word on the matter but must be viewed in the light of these other passages. I have studied the bible for 33 years and taught and preached on the judgments many times I don't need to go Bible Threatenings Explained (away) for light. This is my 2nd admonition to you so now I reject you.
@mwilson70201 According to you, Christ is NOT the saviour of the world, He is only the potential saviour of some. Someone who saves a drowning person is there saviour, but if he dosnt save him from drowning; what right does he have to say he is his savior?
@mwilson70201 URs dont ignor scripture. We read it with a different mind and heart than you do. We who have found hope have also found clues to Gods plan for all mankind. As for ppl like you, you read scipture with your carnal minds and desires. You use the teachings of the seperation of the wheat from the chaff as proof for your selfrightouse desires when in fact, it means something else. The seperation of our carnal nature from our being. Only a UR understands this.
@mwilson70201 5having a form of piety, and its power having denied; and from these be turning away, 6for of these there are those coming into the houses and leading captive the silly women, laden with sins, led away with desires manifold, 7always learning, and never to a knowledge of truth able to come, 8and, even as Jannes and Jambres stood against Moses, so also these do stand against the truth, men corrupted in mind, disapproved concerning the faith;
@Lrothtube 2Th 1:7-10 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe because our testimony among you was believed in that day.
@mwilson70201 9but they shall not advance any further, for their folly shall be manifest to all, as theirs also did become. 10And thou -- thou hast followed after my teaching, manner of life, purpose, faith, long-suffering, love, endurance,12and all also who will to live piously in Christ Jesus shall be persecuted, 13and evil men and impostors shall advance to the worse, leading astray and being led astray. I believe it is you who are being PIOUS &have a corrupt mind, maligning Gods love
Act 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; BUT NOW COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Please do not come with your own opinion. Any scripture you give me i will untangle, because you take many verses out of context.
@Lrothtube Saying that preaching the need for faith in Jesus Christ to be saved is contrary to scripture is absolute madness.That you teach men there's no need to be born again is spiritual murder. Your blend of Origen's UR with Augustine's doctrine of predestination is non-scriptural from it's conception, it's the turning to fables and acceptance of philosophy warned of in II Tim. 4:1-4; Col. 2:8. Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
@mwilson70201 Whoa, slow down partner, I never said anything of the sort and you have completely read into anything that I have said. The context is this, Eternal torture god, hell-fire is completely false and unscriptual as taught in orthodox "christianity" which ACCORDING to scripture in Math 15:3
3And he answering said to them, `Wherefore also do ye transgress the command of God because of your tradition? Eternal torment is a doctrine of demons that was brought in by Augustine, not Jesus
@Lrothtube See you at the white throne judgment, I'll be among the spectators. In rev. 20:15 the fate of unbelievers is the lake of fire. In Rev. 21:4 death no more, in Rev. 21:8 the fearful and unbelieving are still in the lake of fire. In Rev. 21:24-22:8 the blessed sttae of the redeemed is described and in Rev. 22:11 the unjust are still unjust, the filthy still filthy, while the righteous and holy are still righteous and holy. Jesus will reward every man according to his works Rev: 22:12.
@mwilson70201 What a coincident, SO WILL I, I am part of the elect who will be ruling & reigning with Christ, what an honor, I wish you understood about the lake . The white throne judgement does not come until the end of the millineum this is the second resurrection & will take the remaining eon& final eon to perform the judgement. Then it will be the consummation of time, yes, my friend this is all scripture I am excited because Jesus has GOT THIS! and God is SOVEREIGN, no worries, no anxiety
@Lrothtube Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
@Lrothtube 2Peter 3:7-14 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
@opengates777 God is Sovereign, God is gonna do what God is gonna do, if he wants to burn the place down to the ground, I say let him, whats the big deal. I have shared with you before that I do not walk in fear, and refuse to walk in the judgement of men, I walk before Jesus Christ only and I am NOT worried about it. Kapeesh? Not sure why you commented me this but have a nice day! God Bless you!
Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? FOR WE SHALL ALL STAND BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. SO THEN EVERYONE OF US SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
2Th 1:7-10 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe because our testimony among you was believed in that day.
The bible does not say God's mercy is unconditional. Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Psa. 32:5 David says "I acknowledged my sin.. I said I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. I Jn1:9 IF we confess our sins hes faithful and just to forgive us. Ro 4:24 says righteousness will be imputed to us IF we believe on him that raised up Jesus from the dead. It is conditional.
Ok that just kicked some ass, and Praise be to God it did.....thank you Jesus for delivering us from false teachings and showing us your love and kindness when we did not deserve it. Father, Son and Holy Spirit I am PROUD to call you my God. Jesus thank you for the word coming through Martin Zender...it has change my life AND MY LOVE...my love for God and mylove for all those I thought were headed for hell, I AM NOT AFRAID ANYMORE, and for that Jesus I am forever in your debt. Love you Jesus<3
BUT IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, Fornication, Uncleanness, Lasciviousness, Idolatry, Witchcraft, Hatred, Variance, Emulations, Wrath, Strife, Seditions, Heresies, Envying, Murders, Drunkenness, Revelling,
AND SUCH LIKE: OF THE WHICH I TELL YOU BEFORE, AS I HAVE ALSO TOLD YOU IN TIME PAST, THAT THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Gal 5:19.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
BUT THOU, O DANIEL, SHUT UP THE WORDS, AND SEAL THE BOOK, EVEN TO THE TIME OF THE END: MANY SHALL RUN TO AND FRO, AND KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED. Dan 12:4.
@TheLordOfHost1Dan12: 2`And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to LIFE AGE-DURING, and some to REPROACHES -- to abhorrence AGE-DURING.3And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars TO THE AGE and for ever.You dont have an understanding of the "ages" or eons, or the fact that Gods judgments are meant for correction & reconcilliation, they are TEMPORAL, please study this, or u wont have GOOD NEWS!
True Christianity is not an evil empire. Pseudo-christian religion IS an evil empire, because it promotes doctrines which detract from the Grace of God, and brings people bondage with legalism and traditions of men, which make the word of God of none effect. It also hurts God's people through spiritual abuse. We need to stand firm in the liberty that we have in Christ.
From The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge comes (vol. 12, p. 96), "Under the instruction of those great teachers many other theologians believed in universal salvation; and indeed the whole Eastern Church until after 500 A.D. was inclined to it. Doederlein says that 'In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more did he cherish and defend the hope of the termination of future torments”.
If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.
Rev 13:6-8 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. AND ALL THAT DWELL DWELL UPON THE EARTH SHALL WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
Dan 7:9- I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: THE JUDGMENT WAS SET, AND BOOKS WERE OPENED...
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
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The bible no where says God's mercy is unconditional. Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Psa. 32:5 David says "I acknowledged my sin.. I said I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. I Jn 1:9 IF we confess our sins hes faithful and just to forgive us. Ro 4:24 says righteousness will be imputed to us IF we believe on him that raised up Jesus from the dead. It is conditional.
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I believe there is a hell and I am not worry about it because I did what God says in his word to do so I could not go there. If hell is not real I don't have nothing to lose anyway. But what about if it is real? Just think about it.
Christians will say to Christ, Did we not cast out demons, did we not heal, did we not do wonders in your name? Christ then will say, Depart from me you who work iniquity. Christians are in fact anti-christ if you think about it. They are so oposite of Christ and they don't even know it. So blind by their self-rightousness. The Christ was never and is not a Christian. Plain and simple.
Who do you think was killing the majority of true Christians who didn't follow Papal Rome? It was the Catholic Church. Who were the ones mostly killed by them - Christians - true Christians. Yes, the inquisition killed some muslims and others but mostly true Christians who rejected the teachigns of Rome. This video is plain stupidity. Get a little more read-up before posting something like this. And I don't agree with some of John Hagee's stuff but he doesn't speak for all of us.
I ahve to disagree with Martin.Doctrine of eternal punishment did not start with the Catholic Church in 325A.D. It was way before that.Jesus said few would make it down the narrow road.Almost everyone I talk to on the streets love their sin & don't want to part with it. They condemn themselves. To blame God for what man chooses is illogical. I can see where Martin is coming from on the outside but he lacks real biblical understanding & has no authority on the subject.
@SwordofManticorE are you serious? Here's two of at least 15 that use the word hell but this doesn't count all the references to hell that don't use the word hell. There are 216 verses in the new testament that speak of hell - what its like, who goes there, etc.
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell (Gehenna)?
@thesacredcowtipper I have already researched the doctrine of hell and its history. Why does one need authority to talk about the evil doctrine? Authority from who? Man?
@SwordofManticorE first you ask where Jesus stated it as if you respected His authority adn just didn't know; now you change your position. I don't have time for this.
@SwordofManticorE It did come before the Roman Church or Roman Catholicism. Way before it. If yous tart with Jesus, about 300 years before Catholicism. I already gave you two verses. download E-sword and you can read all of them., Here is a few for you again. Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
@thesacredcowtipper The parable of Lazerus was a prophecy from Christ to the pharisees that Judea and all her blessings from God would end and be given to the gentile nations. The proper translation is "unseen", not hell. You literalists really dont know how to read Christ's words do you.
@SwordofManticorE Really? Blessings from God? God brought judgment on his own people many times from the beginning of their existence. Where did you get that translation from? I am curious what translation you are reading or WHO you got that from. Please tell.
@thesacredcowtipper Your problem is that you take the teachings from Christ literally. He was meant to be understood spiritually. How do you expect to see His messages when you see them with your carnal eyes alone?
@SwordofManticorE So you tell me what He meant about all His talk about hell as a literal place? He always incorporates judgment in His teeachings when talking about hell. Not everything in scripture was written as a parable, or metaphor as you are coming off saying. And parables and metaphors always have an absolute truth being explained.
@SwordofManticorE I still would liek to know where youa re getting your teachings from since you ahve said some thigns I ahvent' heard in 27 years. Sounds like David Bruce. Is this your new MO David? Sword of ManticorE?
This comes from scripture. Those who have the spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear will know what I am talking about. Do you take the parable of Lazerus literally?
@SwordofManticorE It's a parable because it starts with - "There was a certain..." but just because it is a parable doesnt' take away from hell's reality. parables and metaphors are used to protray literal truths adn sometimes of literal places. It's like you are saying because it was a parable that makes it not true. The Jews always beleived in a place like hell so they knew exactly what jesus was saying when he gave the parable. (cont)
@thesacredcowtipper So if we take it litarlly, all the rich will burn and all the poor will kiss Abrahams busom forever? Hmm? While we are at it, I haven't seen any real wolves in the wild wearing sheeps pelts?
John 6:63...the words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. (I dont see literal?)
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here are a couple of more sites I know off the top of my head, may Jesus Christ deliver you from traditions of men & fear.
Bible-truths(.com)
Bible Threatenings Explained (google)
Kingdombiblestudies(.org)
Martin Zender(.com)
richardwaynegarganta(.com)
salvationofall(org)
Universalsalvation(.org)
I have learned so much from each of the above sites, I truly am set free in Jesus Christ, I am ecstatic about Jesus & what HIS life blood has done for ALL mankind on the cross, God BlesS
Lrothtube 2 hours ago
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Lrothtube 2 hours ago
So glad the world is finally seeing the truth of the bible.
jeffmisener 5 days ago
Lrothtube
I'm interested in your views on this. What do you mean by "heinous perception of God?"
Thanks
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort I was raised baptist with traditional "hell fire/eternal torture chamber" doctrine, I love God & want to know him so even when I believed there was a "hell" I still loved God, 1 day about 3 months ago I googled " Is hell real" ? Well then a whole new world & understanding opened up to me. Zenmiester? LOL I really enjoy Martin Zender he is funny and makes really good points, not every minister is this unfortunately :( In next comment I will share resources I have found.
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@HillShort (resources) What-theHell-isHell (google) , Tentmaker(.org) Martin Zender (.com) Savior-of-all(.com) (google) Bible Threatenings Explained (google) ,godsplanforall(.com) ,Kindombiblestudies(.org) bible-truths(.com) & Universalsalvation(org) One site sometime leads to another, this is PLENTY of info to get you started, I am so glad God showed me this, however many "christians" will rebel against this info and stick with their traditions, hope this helps GodBless You!
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube Wow! Thanks so much for the thorough response. I checked out the first site (whatthehellishell). It was really interesting. The intro post claimed the scriptures regarding hell can't be trusted. But it also used scriptures to help make this claim. How can some be true and some be false? In other words, how do you pick and choose which ones you can trust and which ones you can rely on?
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort What the person is trying to convey is not so much the scripture but the use of "hell" IN the scripture is incorrect. Just keep looking at the sites I have shared and I promise it will all start to come together. "Hell" is SUBSTITUTED for Hades, or Sheol, or sometimes Tartarus, or Gehenna, which all these words are either Greek or Hebrew, in
FACT the world "hell" is not Aramaic & this is the language Jesus used, so he could not have even USED hell. Keep searching, God Bless You!!
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube Once again, thanks for the response. I'm enjoying learning more and more about your views. This doesn't quite answer my question though. If even one verse, such as one about hell, is wrong in the scripture, than how can we trust any other verses to be accurate? Such as "all scripture is god breathed and useful for teaching" (2 Tim 3:16)? Doesn't it seem that it has to be either all true or all false?
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort I think what is happening is that you are mixing up ORIGINAL text of Hebrew & Greek for lets say the Latin Vulgate, church history teaches that the "priest" held the text from the general public until the REFORMATION. All bibles ARE NOT created equal, Gods' original Holy Spirit inspired scriptures are without & true, alot of the other versions, KJV for example is filled with false translations , ex. KJV uses "hell" 54x, the Youngs literal trans. uses hell=0x, I hope this helps
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube First, let me just say thanks. I truly appreciate your engagement. I read a little online about the Youngs Lit. Trans. The reasons they found translation errors were consistent with what you said earlier: that words such as "hades," "gehenna," "tartarus," and "sheol," were mistranslated to mean "hell." Well, those words do mean a place with what English calls "hell." Isn't it the meaning of the word that matters in translating? How exactly do you find this erroneous?
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort Ok lets look at this, as long as "hell" represents the grave, or death, or pit I have no problem with that, what I have a problem with is when people us "hell" as an eternal torture chamber because this is not correct representation then.
Lrothtube 6 days ago
@Lrothtube Put another way, I think you would say that god is good. Yet I'm confused on this belief and how it exists with some of your other ones. First, how can a good god allow his written word to his followers to have inconsistencies, and essentially lies? Second, how can a good god forgo defending the good by not punishing evil?
Thanks for your patience lrothtube. You rock!
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort Thats like asking why people in Sudan are being mutilated for their faith, I dont know I am only telling you that false mistranslations are maligning the character of God for 1500 years, Paul never taught eternal torture chamber, dont let other mislead "christians" you seek things out on your own and find the truth for yourself in Christ no matter what you end up believing. We all will be judged in fire, the sites I suggested show a lot about God being a consumming fire.
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube "find the truth for yourself in Christ no matter what you end up believing"<--If I do check into Christianity further and I end up believing there is a hell, and that I qualify for it, but you believe there's not one, then where am I going when I die?
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort We all will be going through the fire, God is a consuming FIRE, do a study on fire and judgement use a concordance with greek, pt being you have to study for your self, look up scriptures yourself, no matter what anyone one else believes me or the hell fire people, when you die you will be going to the grave JUST LIKE JESUS, then you will be resurrected..JUST LIKE JESUS....
1CORIN15:22For as in Adam ALL die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.
Find the truth,go in PEACE
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube I thought you didn't trust the Greek, given that you said "hades" shouldn't be translated as "hell" (btw - what would be a correct trans of it?). Assuming you follow your own advice in research, how do you know when to rely on Greek and when not to?
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort The reason why it would behoove all of us to rely on the Greek & Hebrew transcripts because it is THESE that are the ORGINAL penned writings of the Bible. All other "bibles"( I use this loosely) are most times MISTRANSLATED from these original pennings & men along the way have SUBSITUTED words & CHANGED the whole text. Hell IS NOT A GREEK OR HEBREW WORD. Jesus NEVER used hell because it wasnt even around when Jesus was alive. Hades in Greek represents the Grave or Death
Lrothtube 6 days ago
@Lrothtube I think this gets back to the question I had earlier in our conversation - isn't the meaning that matters? This is relevant here because as a Classics teacher I can tell you with certainty that Hades in ancient Greek denoted what English calls hell, not the idea of death - but the place people went after death. This is very clear from history, and many books like Homer's Odyssey, for instance describe Hades and what the location and experience is like (including torture).
HillShort 6 days ago
@Lrothtube Aside from the problem with misunderstanding what Hades means, I think it's also important to be able to answer this question: with this belief, what do you make of verses throughout the biblical text such as those in Revelation that describe hell without using the word "hell?"
HillShort 6 days ago
@Lrothtube This is an interesting verse. What if someone chooses not to be "in Christ?" What if someone wholly and completely rejects Christ? Are you saying that God forces that person to go to heaven? That really, such rejection was never really a free choice to begin with?
I know I have a lot of questions. You are awesome to stay in this dialogue so long!!
HillShort 1 week ago
@HillShort This are good questions, you are paying attention, the best way to explain it is in Martin Zenders Presdestination & Gummy Bears video right here on you-tube he does an awesome job of explaining what is really happening of those called now who are the "first-fruits" & those who do not hear the call of Christ now. Check it out when you have the time.
Lrothtube 6 days ago
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In Act 26:16-18 Jesus had died and went to heaven. Then Jesus then made a visit to paul who was destroying the followers of Christ, Paul was knocked off his horse, then Paul saw a bright light. Jesus commanded paul to now carry the gospel.
.Unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Your wrong.
opengates777 1 week ago
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@Lrothtube Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
opengates777 1 week ago
@opengates777 Not to worried about it, you dont understand the "ages" or the eons, it is obvious that you do not understand that God is a consuming fire, people need to get off of this LITERAL use of the word fire, it is ridiculous, we are also baptized with the FIRE of the Holy Spirit, um Im on FIRE for Jesus, we go through judgments as through FIRE, oh well not that big of a deal it is all based on scripture, I am sorry that you are afraid of God and share that fear with others
Lrothtube 6 days ago
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@Lrothtube Mat 13:40-43
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Universalism is false!
opengates777 1 week ago
@opengates777 Once again, you do not understand audience relevance and who Jesus Christ was speaking to at the time, not us , it was the Jews, look at the whole passage maybe that would help, especially regarding in verse 10 of this chapter the disciples are asking him WHY HE SPOKE IN PARABLES, just pray for discernment, so you know what is really going on, I dont know what to tell you when you use scripture out of context to fry people, good luck with that let me know how that goes for ya!
Lrothtube 6 days ago
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@Lrothtube Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
WAKE UP!!!!!
opengates777 3 days ago
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@Lrothtube Wow! Thanks so much for the thorough response. I checked out the first site (whatthehellishell(.com). It was really interesting. The intro post claimed the scriptures regarding hell can't be trusted. But it also used scriptures to help make this claim. How can some be true and some be false? In other words, how do you pick and choose which ones you can trust and which ones you can rely on?
HillShort 1 week ago
Your so focused on the God's judgement which is righteous that you fail to see the massive Love of God's free Gift of Salvation. I pray that true believers aren't decieved by the carnal perspective displayed in this video.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? ~Jesus Christ
Hebrews1038 2 weeks ago
@Hebrews1038 No one is disputing Gods judgements,they are meant for correction and restoration. What is being addressed is the false doctrine of "eternal torturechamber" which maligns the character of God, negates Jesus atonement to save ALL, because Jesus has saved ALL, each in their own order based on scripture. The current false teaching of "hell fire"/eternal torture chamber DRIVES men from God, because people instinctively KNOW that a loving God would not do the things falsely taught
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube- Judge things by the Spirit. Hell is a place in which is separated from God & His Love. Through His Love He created all good things: love,air,compassion,peace,light,joy,water,etc. How can people think that they will enjoy the pleasures of Heaven with God if they have ignored His Word all of their earthly lives. People who go to Hell choose to go to hell by rejecting Jesus&His message & living a self centered life,failing to understand & carry out God righteous Will for their lives.
Hebrews1038 1 week ago
@Hebrews1038 Listen, If Jesus Christ has not saved ALL, which according to scripture, he has, then he WOULD HAVE MISSED THE MARK, and fell short of what he came here to accomplish,Dude You SERIOUSLY have to get off of the traditions of man they are killing you and your message, give it up for
Christ sake!!! Stop using the word "choose" to go to hell, use your brain pudding head, none of us chose to be born or sin, we are not choosing our salvation either, get it STRAIGHT!!
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube- You must understand that the blood of Jesus PAID for all the Sin's of Mankind, but It is possible for people reject Salvation by their actions in the way you live. Just because a person says their a follower of Christ doesn't mean they will make it to Heaven. Hell is Real. Proof of Hell is in the WORDS of Jesus in Mathew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Read all Matthew Chapter 13.
Hebrews1038 1 week ago
@Hebrews1038 I really dont think you understand how blasphemous your above statement is. God is Sovereign, meaning HES IN CHARGE, however with your false belief system you must have picked up in some church somewhere YOU HAVE JUST TAKEN GODS SOVEREIGNTY AWAY but putting MAN in charge by CHOOSING or rejecting JESUS, listen GOD CHOOSES US,HE CALLS US WHEN HES DAMN GOOD & READY, we are not apart of the salvation process, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST, but of course you may stick with tradition
Lrothtube 6 days ago
@Lrothtube -No blasphemy here, let me explain, there are levels of truth. On a human level it seems that people can choose their fate, for example like what's stated in Joshua 24:15~choose you this day whom ye will serve. (TRUTH) But we know ultimately on God's level He has predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will~Ephesians-1:5 (ALSO TRUTH) Hell is Real, but if we REPENT+follow Jesus=Eternal life with HIM.
Hebrews1038 3 days ago
@Hebrews1038 I am free in Christ, Jesus died for my sins,(& the whole worlds) no please, where does it say that we have to believe in "hell" to be with Jesus? Do you think Jesus is going to throw me in "hell" for not believing in "hell"? I dont believe in an "eternal torture chamber" somewhere, now am I "saved" or not? LOL LOL, give me the scripture that tells ME I HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THIS PAGAN TORTURE CHAMBER, I never will believe that, that is not MY JESUS, it shouldnt be yours!
Lrothtube 4 hours ago
@Hebrews1038 Ok People love to use the gnashing of teeth as an example of "eternal torture chamber, when if you look at verse 10 of the same chap. the disciples are asking Jesus WHY HE SPEAKS IN PARABLES? He was addressing the JEWS , NOT us , why dont you look at Bible Threatenings EXPLAINED this may help you really get discernment, unless you are just here to argue because you think you are right, Im not sure but God Bless you in any case.Romans 14:11, I Corinthians 3:12-16 should cover it
Lrothtube 6 days ago
@Lrothtube Agreed. "weeping and gnashing of teeth"...Psalm 35:16 Like the ungodly they MALICIOUSLY mocked; they gnashed their teeth at me.
"The wicked plotteth AGAINST the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth" (Psalm 37:12).
Psalm 112:10 "The sinner shall see and be ANGRY, he shall gnash his teeth and consume away"
They ALL have to do with Anger and NOT sorrow or being Hurt or scared.
Wailing and Gnashing of teeth is MUCH more like a child's temper tantrum than Anything.
pUnKrOcKnINjAgAmEr 6 days ago
@Lrothtube -Yes I see that you understand predestination, but you overlooked one scripture that completely contridicts you theology. Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. This is one of the many passages that lets us know that there is a judgement at the end of the world, & offenders will be casted into a burning fire. REMEMBER: "SO SHALL IT BE IN THE END OF THIS WORLD." "THE WORDS OF JESUS" "UNDENIABLE"
Hebrews1038 3 days ago
@Hebrews1038
As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this AGE....this is how my translation goes in YLT, there is a HUGE difference between "world" & "age" . I think I have mentioned to you before that it would behoove you to do a study on the "ages" eons or in the Greek "AION" until you know about the "ages" you wont get far in understanding the FULL picture of what Jesus & the Father have planned for us ALL, it does not include TORTURE!
Lrothtube 4 hours ago
@Hebrews1038 Well Jesus doesnt seem to be too strong of a savior then, I thought Jesus was God, so why dont I just go to the root of the problem & just "reject" Adams fall, sin, & consequential judgment of death on man? I'll just skip right over Jesus, seeing as how Adam is so much MORE POWERFUL THAN JESUS, ill just "reject " Adam instead!
We had no CHOICE in ADAM we have NO CHOICE in Christ, it is an equal eqaution, ADAM=SIN,DEATH, JESUS=LIFE,FORGIVENESS, we just walk in the GRACE & truth
Lrothtube 4 hours ago
Lrothtube 4 hours ago
@Hebrews1038 continued)Because of Christ’s original obedience, all men are made
alive. They do not have to “accept it.” They do not choose
it; God chose it for them. They have been given life whether
they believe it or not
Lrothtube 4 hours ago
@Hebrews1038 Romans 8:38-39
New International Version (NIV)
38 For I am convinced that neither DEATH nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, WILL BE ABLE TO SEPERATE us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sorry guy, not sure what bible you are reading but, keep pressing in to the Good News of Jesus Christ, he saves ALL of us, dont give up hope!
Lrothtube 3 days ago
@Hebrews1038 You say judge by the Spirit & I have, who do you think delivered me from the false doctrine of "eternal torment"?"Hell" if it has to be used at ALL is to REPRESENT the grave or death, NOTHING ELSE!!! Look at historical FACTS!! Jesus spoke aramaic, Hell is not a word that was EVEN AROUND WHEN MEN WHERE PENNING THE SCRIPTURES, for the Love of Jesus Christ GET THIS RIGHT. "Hell"...um...wasnt even used until about 800 AD, youre like a fricking mormon with this brainwash crap.ARRGH!!!
Lrothtube 3 days ago
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@Lrothtube
2Pe 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: BUT THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, WHICH ARE NOW, BY THE SAME WORD ARE KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED UNTO FIRE AGAINST THE DAY OF JUDGMENT AND PERDITION OF UNGODLY MEN.
I don't believe in purgatory, but i believe God is coming back with fire instead of a flood.
TheLordOfHost1 21 hours ago
@Lrothtube -Historical Facts proof that Hell exists! You say the word "Hell" wasn't used until about 800 AD. Likewise the word "Dinosaur" wasn't used until 1841, but we know these creatures existed & called by different names by many cultures, in the Bible also. My point is even in the Old Testament which was written many hundreds of years before Christ, speaks of & gives reference to a place of fiery,burning,pits,chambers & darkness to were the rebellious go to after the first death.
Hebrews1038 5 hours ago
@Lrothtube are you zendermeister? Please forgive my ignorance. When I click on your name I see the same video as above. So are all people automatically saved, no matter what?
HillShort 1 week ago
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bible-truths(.com) really fun place to be, I love it I am growing so much in the Lord at this site, deals with a lot of issues, such as hell, the ages, and so forth...check it out!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they haven’t as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
As you can see WE ALL will be going through "fire", people continually mix up hell( the grave) with the lake of fire, 2 DIFFERENT THINGS PEOPLE. We have to have the ability to RIGHTLY divide the word of TRUTH, personally I can not, and will not serve some demonic god that tortures with fear, and guess what I DONT HAVE TO, none of us do, ITS ALL GOOD PEOPLE, THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS! Jesus IS the SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, some are going to be judged in "fire" more than some, what can you do? LOVE OTHERS!!!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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Rev 3:19-20 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
JESUS IS CALLING ALL MEN TO REPENTENCE, BUT MEN REFUSE THE OFFER OF SALVATION.
Wake up stop twisting scripture
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.
1 Peter 1:17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first being at us, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing...
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
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@Lrothtube Your teaching is false! Jesus opened away of salvation on the cross. In Act 26:16-18 Jesus had died and gone to heaven. Jesus then made a visit to paul who was destroying the followers of Christ. Jesus commanded paul to now carry the gospel.
..Unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
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"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS;
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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(CONTINUED) but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in God’s consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!! Listen Bill , we are ALL going to go through the fire, its gonna really sting for ALL of us some more than others but YOU HAVE TO TRUST GOD, he knows what hes doing and it is for our own GOOD & HIS Glory, no big deal, RELAX, be anxious for nothing, pray, its all good!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
And there are no Scriptural doctrines or teachings to the contrary. NONE! This IS the Good News Gospel which precious few on this earth have ever heard. It is God’s "WILL" that all mankind be saved (I Tim. 2:4), and God’s "will" WILL be done (Matt. 6:10 and Isaiah 46:10-11)!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: FOR WHICH THINGS SAKE THE WRATH OF GOD COMETH ON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE: In which ye also walked sometime, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication.. Colo 3:5
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1 ok, so whats your point? I dont disagree, the unbeliever will be judged, big whooptie jam, Gods judgements are just, All are saved,some now, some later, God does what HE WANTS TO DO , what of it? Not sure what youre trying to tell me, or the torture chamber =Hell, nope, we've been over this, Hell is the Grave, friend, on a side note, why are you always blasting me with Gods judgements? Jesus is my life my love, are you trying to judge me or something? Not sure whats going on here
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Amen brother. Dont allow them to drag you back into their sispool of fear.
SwordofManticorE 3 weeks ago
@SwordofManticorE LOL, they cant, but are you completely amazed , as I am, by people who say they follow Jesus, that want to fry people, I mean they are not joking, it is like they have front row seats to the barbecue or something, I think these are the PIOUS and corrupt minds that is talked about in Timothy 3. As soon as I found out there wasnt an eternal torture chamber I was BESIDE myself WITH JOY, not these folks, fry the biatchs they say, it is really disturbing to me, but I am tough!!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Sister, it is no secret that those who believe in eternal torment have a hidden desire for vengence. Their interpretation of scripture is based soley by their carnal desires and lack of love for their fellow man. They are like their easter egg. Painted pretty on the outside, but empty inside. Paul teaches us to continue ministering the teaching of reconciliation of all things. If you wish to debate to deaf ears, you waste time on them. Peace be with you.
SwordofManticorE 3 weeks ago
@SwordofManticorE This revelation is fairly new to me (No eternal torment chamber) like 8 weeks and I guess I was naive, I really thought that "christians" would totally embrace this as I have, after all this is the GOOD NEWS!! At first I was really taken aback by "christian" response, now I am getting used to it real fast LOL, what can you do, I just no that it will NOT stop me from spreading my revelations because it has brought me great Joy, Peace and Comfort, this is the work of God :)
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Isnt it wonderful news. When I first recieved this revelation, I wanted to shout it out to all christians. But I was rebuked and accused a heretic. That didnt bother me so much as the strong impression they gave me about them wanting unbelievers to burn forever. That broke my heart.
SwordofManticorE 3 weeks ago
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2Th 1:7-10 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints..
For the Lord knows the way of the righteous: BUT THE WAY OF THE UNGODLY SHALL PERISH. Psa 1:6. I don't believe in eternal torment.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
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Act 26:16-18 I Jesus have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
opengates777 3 weeks ago
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Mat 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Luk 13:23-24 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? AND HE SAID UNTO THEM, STRIVE TO ENTER IN AT THE STRAIT GATE: FOR MANY, I SAY UNTO YOU, WILL SEEK TO ENTER IN, AND SHALL NOT BE ABLE.
Word from JESUS HIMSELF.
TheLordOfHost1 2 weeks ago
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Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone..
Rev 9:20-21 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
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@SwordofMant Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.
1 Peter 1:17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first being at us, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing...
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
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@SwordofManticorE .....If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, HE IS NONE OF HIS. Rom 8:9.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die ( Adam was a failure ), EVEN SO IN CHRIST shall all be made alive.( Jesus opened away out )
Notice the Bible says, EVEN SO IN CHRIST? Now notice what the Bible says, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO, WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER SPIRIT. 8:1.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@SwordofManticorE LOL oh, & Im a sister!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
JESUS IS CALLING ALL MEN TO REPENTENCE, BUT MEN REFUSE THE OFFER OF SALVATION.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1 This is true , this is whats happening, however you are forgetting that there are 2 "ages" or eons left, this is not the end of time my friend, some will be purged in fire, cant be helped, it is what it, it is! God is Sovereign, if we can even speak Jesus name out our mouths it is only because of Gods Grace, NONE of what you have shared with me here is going to stop me from sharing the love of God with anyone, Perfect love cast out all fear, I am not afraid, God is in CHARGE!!!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM..
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
What part don't you get? he became the author of eternal SALVATION UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1 Heb 5:9
and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation AGE-DURING
2Tim 2:10 10because of this all things do I endure, because of the choice ones, that they also salvation may obtain that [is] in Christ Jesus, with glory AGE-during. Have I mentioned to you about the "ages" or eons? Do you see how a correct translation paints and entirely different picture of the scriptures you use here, If you dont understand the ages you will mislead
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
We will also see from the Scriptures that God never punishes for the sole purpose of torturing. God always punishes and chastises for the ultimate purpose of correcting, righting, amending, changing, fixing, rectifying, redeeming and saving. That God can and will accomplish these things with every creature in heaven and earth is fully substantiated by hundreds of Scriptures in His Word. I am all over this judgement thing like white on rice, I have found peace, Jesus HAS THIS! Its all good!!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
Does God really teach us to "LOVE OUR ENEMIES" while God Himself "HATES OUR LOVED ONES" by destroying most of them for all eternity? This teaching is also blasphemous.
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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SwordofManticorE 3 weeks ago
@SwordofManticorE you just keep repeating that when you find yourself in the presence of the Holy One, you might try clicking your heels together and saying there's no place like home while your at it. It will yield the same result, nothing. Be sure and tell God how unjust he is when you are sentenced to the lake of fire. When the heaven and the earth have fled away and you are upheld only by the power of the God you replaced with one more to your liking remember you were warned to repent.
mwilson70201 3 weeks ago
Um....
garrydavid.tumblr.com/post/16104509381/hell-is-it-eternal
AwkwardFlavor 3 weeks ago
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 13of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; 14if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; 15if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire. Dont let a phony"christian" fool you, we ALL GO THROUGH THE FIRE, IT IS GOOD!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
Dan 12:1-2 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stand for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book.And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, AND SOME TO SHAME AND EVERLASTING CONTEMPT.
Please do not twist the scriptures. You antichrist
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube 1Cr 3:14-16 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KNOW YE NOT THAT YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, AND THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?
1Cr 3:17 IF ANY MAN DEFILE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH YE ARE.
You have a great lack of understanding of scripture.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1 Shut up you pyschobabbling idiot!
redtygrr 3 weeks ago 4
@redtygrr
85% of the world is religious, your out in the cold son.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
13of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; 14if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; 15if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago 2
Awesome, dude you got it Mr. Zender n yea you kick ass!! Get a megaphone and blast this to the world, you are real with yourself that's why you are rewarded with the REAL Holy Spirit not the spirit of religion! You're honest and seriously got some brass balls to teach and even say this, and you will be rewarded as being separate from the Modern Pharisees!! Keep going man, love you dearly and am with you, I HATE "Christianity!! I'm not afraid to say it!! And Jesus would hate it too!
ShauntProductions 1 month ago 2
Zender's blend of Plato, Aristotle and Origen yields the other gospel, Jesus and spirit Paul warned us about. It denies the need for faith in Christ and the righteousness, temperance and judgment to come Paul preached to Felix in Acts 24. He uses the beginning of God's revelation of death, hell and the grave to deny the complete revelation made in the new Testament. His seemingly progressive observations are in reality regressive. He confuses umerited with unconditional. Be not decieved.
mwilson70201 1 month ago
@mwilson70201 Actually, Paul taught Jesus Saves all, and this makes God Sovereign, God is not depending on MANS "free will" to choose Jesus, God is in control, who chooses us, we dont choose him, Adams sin, the adversary,& MANS CHOICE do not trump the Blood of Christ and if you teach that, it will be YOU that Jesus will say" Depart from me, I never knew you" This is what Jesus will say to ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, Kapeesh? in adam all sin, in Jesus are all vivified, each man in their own order
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago 3
@Lrothtube Like all UR's you ignore the scriptures that don't support your heresy. Don't tell me what Paul taught until you can accept what he said, you make the bible teach what suits you but deny what it says. Paul preached to Felix of judgment not reconciliation. He wrote that we are saved IF we believe on him who raised Jesus from the dead (Ro. 4:24). He wrote "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (II Tim. 3:13) You and Zender are among them.
mwilson70201 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 ok here is just another example of someone who does not understand about the "ages" or eons, there are TWO resurrections, we are in the 3rd age, the millineum is the 4th age or eon, those that believe NOW will be there, those that dont will face judgement, Gods judgements are meant for CORRECTION & restoration, it may be you my friend that is waxing worse by maligning the character of God which is LOVE, lest we forget, learn to interperate CORRECTLY please.
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago 3
@Lrothtube I am well aware of your idea of aeons after spending several weeks discussing this with AliceSpicer. I understand your mindset and the obstinancy of your heart. I have no righteousness of my own but rather trust only in the Lord Jesus. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness. Your hope is built on your view or interpretation. Sooner than you think we will see who is of God and who isn't, I hope you were born again before you became apostate.
mwilson70201 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 You trust Jesus your way, and I will trust Jesus mine, there are alot of people who are coming into the truth about the Character of God, I am a sinner saved only by His Grace, nothing of my own, I live and move and have my being in him, you have to understand that the world his completely sickened by a tortureous God, Jesus showed me the truth I walk in I love God now more than I ever have. I walk in peace, love &joy and am ready to spread the GOOD NEWS of Jesus atonement for ALL
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 It is funny you mention Alice, she is just one among many you will have to contend with when it comes to preaching "torture chamber" I LOVED GOD WHEN I THOUGHT THERE WAS A TORTURE CHAMBER FOR MY LOVED ONES. Jesus delivered me from this doctrine, listen its going around. You cant imagine how I felt when I found out the TRUTH! I am not so arrogant &prideful, that I was not humble and teachable to find out these TRUTHs, what amazes me is how many "christians" cant wait for God to fry
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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@Lrothtube Dan 7:9- I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: THE JUDGMENT WAS SET, AND BOOKS WERE OPENED....
opengates777 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 There is NO going back for me, NOW that I understand what the scriptures say I will never believe in "eternal torture" again? Do you think Jesus is going to throw me in hell for not believing in hell? If "every knee bows &EVERY tongue confess Jesus is Lord, do the "every" do this before or after they get thrown in your torture chamber? Answer that one please.So your theology says Adams sin, the adversary, & mans CHOICE trump Jesus' Blood atonement? Have fun explaining that to God!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 I dont ignore anything these are Pauls words
1 Timothy 4:9-10
Good News Translation (GNT)
9 This is a true saying, to be completely accepted and believed.10 We struggle[a] and work hard, because we have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL and ESPECIALLY of those who believe. Maybe it would behoove you to do a study on Gods judgements, google Bible Threatenings Explained , at least start somewhere to give up youre hopeless RELIGIOUS spirit
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago 2
@Lrothtube The fact that there is only one Saviour doesn't mean that all are saved. You have to reconcile I Tim 4:9,10 with Romans 4:24, John 3:12; 5:24-29; I Cor 15:1-4 etc. It does not negate the rest of God's word on the matter but must be viewed in the light of these other passages. I have studied the bible for 33 years and taught and preached on the judgments many times I don't need to go Bible Threatenings Explained (away) for light. This is my 2nd admonition to you so now I reject you.
mwilson70201 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 According to you, Christ is NOT the saviour of the world, He is only the potential saviour of some. Someone who saves a drowning person is there saviour, but if he dosnt save him from drowning; what right does he have to say he is his savior?
SwordofManticorE 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 URs dont ignor scripture. We read it with a different mind and heart than you do. We who have found hope have also found clues to Gods plan for all mankind. As for ppl like you, you read scipture with your carnal minds and desires. You use the teachings of the seperation of the wheat from the chaff as proof for your selfrightouse desires when in fact, it means something else. The seperation of our carnal nature from our being. Only a UR understands this.
SwordofManticorE 3 weeks ago 3
@mwilson70201 5having a form of piety, and its power having denied; and from these be turning away, 6for of these there are those coming into the houses and leading captive the silly women, laden with sins, led away with desires manifold, 7always learning, and never to a knowledge of truth able to come, 8and, even as Jannes and Jambres stood against Moses, so also these do stand against the truth, men corrupted in mind, disapproved concerning the faith;
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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@Lrothtube 2Th 1:7-10 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe because our testimony among you was believed in that day.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 9but they shall not advance any further, for their folly shall be manifest to all, as theirs also did become. 10And thou -- thou hast followed after my teaching, manner of life, purpose, faith, long-suffering, love, endurance,12and all also who will to live piously in Christ Jesus shall be persecuted, 13and evil men and impostors shall advance to the worse, leading astray and being led astray. I believe it is you who are being PIOUS &have a corrupt mind, maligning Gods love
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube
Act 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; BUT NOW COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Please do not come with your own opinion. Any scripture you give me i will untangle, because you take many verses out of context.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Saying that preaching the need for faith in Jesus Christ to be saved is contrary to scripture is absolute madness.That you teach men there's no need to be born again is spiritual murder. Your blend of Origen's UR with Augustine's doctrine of predestination is non-scriptural from it's conception, it's the turning to fables and acceptance of philosophy warned of in II Tim. 4:1-4; Col. 2:8. Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
mwilson70201 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 Whoa, slow down partner, I never said anything of the sort and you have completely read into anything that I have said. The context is this, Eternal torture god, hell-fire is completely false and unscriptual as taught in orthodox "christianity" which ACCORDING to scripture in Math 15:3
3And he answering said to them, `Wherefore also do ye transgress the command of God because of your tradition? Eternal torment is a doctrine of demons that was brought in by Augustine, not Jesus
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube See you at the white throne judgment, I'll be among the spectators. In rev. 20:15 the fate of unbelievers is the lake of fire. In Rev. 21:4 death no more, in Rev. 21:8 the fearful and unbelieving are still in the lake of fire. In Rev. 21:24-22:8 the blessed sttae of the redeemed is described and in Rev. 22:11 the unjust are still unjust, the filthy still filthy, while the righteous and holy are still righteous and holy. Jesus will reward every man according to his works Rev: 22:12.
mwilson70201 3 weeks ago
@mwilson70201 What a coincident, SO WILL I, I am part of the elect who will be ruling & reigning with Christ, what an honor, I wish you understood about the lake . The white throne judgement does not come until the end of the millineum this is the second resurrection & will take the remaining eon& final eon to perform the judgement. Then it will be the consummation of time, yes, my friend this is all scripture I am excited because Jesus has GOT THIS! and God is SOVEREIGN, no worries, no anxiety
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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@Lrothtube Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
opengates777 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube 2Peter 3:7-14 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
opengates777 3 weeks ago
@opengates777 God is Sovereign, God is gonna do what God is gonna do, if he wants to burn the place down to the ground, I say let him, whats the big deal. I have shared with you before that I do not walk in fear, and refuse to walk in the judgement of men, I walk before Jesus Christ only and I am NOT worried about it. Kapeesh? Not sure why you commented me this but have a nice day! God Bless you!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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@Lrothtube
Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? FOR WE SHALL ALL STAND BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. SO THEN EVERYONE OF US SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
opengates777 3 weeks ago
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2Th 1:7-10 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe because our testimony among you was believed in that day.
Purgatory? I don't believe.
opengates777 3 weeks ago
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The bible does not say God's mercy is unconditional. Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Psa. 32:5 David says "I acknowledged my sin.. I said I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. I Jn1:9 IF we confess our sins hes faithful and just to forgive us. Ro 4:24 says righteousness will be imputed to us IF we believe on him that raised up Jesus from the dead. It is conditional.
mwilson70201 1 month ago
you are very ignorant
enthralledbylight 1 month ago in playlist ur and hell
Ok that just kicked some ass, and Praise be to God it did.....thank you Jesus for delivering us from false teachings and showing us your love and kindness when we did not deserve it. Father, Son and Holy Spirit I am PROUD to call you my God. Jesus thank you for the word coming through Martin Zender...it has change my life AND MY LOVE...my love for God and mylove for all those I thought were headed for hell, I AM NOT AFRAID ANYMORE, and for that Jesus I am forever in your debt. Love you Jesus<3
Lrothtube 2 months ago
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@Lrothtube
BUT IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, Fornication, Uncleanness, Lasciviousness, Idolatry, Witchcraft, Hatred, Variance, Emulations, Wrath, Strife, Seditions, Heresies, Envying, Murders, Drunkenness, Revelling,
AND SUCH LIKE: OF THE WHICH I TELL YOU BEFORE, AS I HAVE ALSO TOLD YOU IN TIME PAST, THAT THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Gal 5:19.
eternityeverlasting1 1 month ago
@Lrothtube
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
BUT THOU, O DANIEL, SHUT UP THE WORDS, AND SEAL THE BOOK, EVEN TO THE TIME OF THE END: MANY SHALL RUN TO AND FRO, AND KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED. Dan 12:4.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1Dan12: 2`And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to LIFE AGE-DURING, and some to REPROACHES -- to abhorrence AGE-DURING.3And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars TO THE AGE and for ever.You dont have an understanding of the "ages" or eons, or the fact that Gods judgments are meant for correction & reconcilliation, they are TEMPORAL, please study this, or u wont have GOOD NEWS!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
True Christianity is not an evil empire. Pseudo-christian religion IS an evil empire, because it promotes doctrines which detract from the Grace of God, and brings people bondage with legalism and traditions of men, which make the word of God of none effect. It also hurts God's people through spiritual abuse. We need to stand firm in the liberty that we have in Christ.
AspergianSaint 2 months ago
From The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge comes (vol. 12, p. 96), "Under the instruction of those great teachers many other theologians believed in universal salvation; and indeed the whole Eastern Church until after 500 A.D. was inclined to it. Doederlein says that 'In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more did he cherish and defend the hope of the termination of future torments”.
AspergianSaint 2 months ago
If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.
AspergianSaint 2 months ago 2
"They can snitff religious hypocricsy from 300 cubits away!"...."What moral good has the doctrine of eternal torment accomplished??"
AMEN brother!!
redtygrr 3 months ago 3
You are right on, Mr. Zender :-)
redtygrr 3 months ago 4
@redtygr
Rev 13:6-8 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. AND ALL THAT DWELL DWELL UPON THE EARTH SHALL WORSHIP HIM, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
Becareful how you say, Mr zender is right.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@redtygrr
Dan 7:9- I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: THE JUDGMENT WAS SET, AND BOOKS WERE OPENED...
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1 Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....may as well been what you wrote, because it makes as much sense!
redtygrr 3 weeks ago 4
@redtygrr
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
TheLordOfHost1 3 weeks ago
@TheLordOfHost1 Keep your pathetic threats to yourself!
redtygrr 3 weeks ago 4
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The bible no where says God's mercy is unconditional. Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Psa. 32:5 David says "I acknowledged my sin.. I said I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. I Jn 1:9 IF we confess our sins hes faithful and just to forgive us. Ro 4:24 says righteousness will be imputed to us IF we believe on him that raised up Jesus from the dead. It is conditional.
mwilson70201 3 months ago
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I believe there is a hell and I am not worry about it because I did what God says in his word to do so I could not go there. If hell is not real I don't have nothing to lose anyway. But what about if it is real? Just think about it.
TriunfanteEnCristo 5 months ago
Christians will say to Christ, Did we not cast out demons, did we not heal, did we not do wonders in your name? Christ then will say, Depart from me you who work iniquity. Christians are in fact anti-christ if you think about it. They are so oposite of Christ and they don't even know it. So blind by their self-rightousness. The Christ was never and is not a Christian. Plain and simple.
AuroraLiora 6 months ago
I'm one of the bad people.
LLOYD19851012 7 months ago
Who do you think was killing the majority of true Christians who didn't follow Papal Rome? It was the Catholic Church. Who were the ones mostly killed by them - Christians - true Christians. Yes, the inquisition killed some muslims and others but mostly true Christians who rejected the teachigns of Rome. This video is plain stupidity. Get a little more read-up before posting something like this. And I don't agree with some of John Hagee's stuff but he doesn't speak for all of us.
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper The doctrine of eternal torture that almost all denominations endorse came from some where. Rome? Martin makes excellent sense.
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE Hi S,
I ahve to disagree with Martin.Doctrine of eternal punishment did not start with the Catholic Church in 325A.D. It was way before that.Jesus said few would make it down the narrow road.Almost everyone I talk to on the streets love their sin & don't want to part with it. They condemn themselves. To blame God for what man chooses is illogical. I can see where Martin is coming from on the outside but he lacks real biblical understanding & has no authority on the subject.
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper Give me one REAL verse where Christ talks about a place called hell. I repeat, one verse only.
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE are you serious? Here's two of at least 15 that use the word hell but this doesn't count all the references to hell that don't use the word hell. There are 216 verses in the new testament that speak of hell - what its like, who goes there, etc.
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell (Gehenna)?
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE You can download Esword for free and look up things for yourself if you don't beleive me.
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper I have already researched the doctrine of hell and its history. Why does one need authority to talk about the evil doctrine? Authority from who? Man?
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE first you ask where Jesus stated it as if you respected His authority adn just didn't know; now you change your position. I don't have time for this.
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper I have changed nothing. You said that the doctrine of hell came before Rome. You said Christ spoke about it. Show me one verse.
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE It did come before the Roman Church or Roman Catholicism. Way before it. If yous tart with Jesus, about 300 years before Catholicism. I already gave you two verses. download E-sword and you can read all of them., Here is a few for you again. Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(cont)
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper The parable of Lazerus was a prophecy from Christ to the pharisees that Judea and all her blessings from God would end and be given to the gentile nations. The proper translation is "unseen", not hell. You literalists really dont know how to read Christ's words do you.
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE Really? Blessings from God? God brought judgment on his own people many times from the beginning of their existence. Where did you get that translation from? I am curious what translation you are reading or WHO you got that from. Please tell.
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper Your problem is that you take the teachings from Christ literally. He was meant to be understood spiritually. How do you expect to see His messages when you see them with your carnal eyes alone?
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE So you tell me what He meant about all His talk about hell as a literal place? He always incorporates judgment in His teeachings when talking about hell. Not everything in scripture was written as a parable, or metaphor as you are coming off saying. And parables and metaphors always have an absolute truth being explained.
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE I still would liek to know where youa re getting your teachings from since you ahve said some thigns I ahvent' heard in 27 years. Sounds like David Bruce. Is this your new MO David? Sword of ManticorE?
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper Like I said before, I never heard of this guy.
This comes from scripture. Those who have the spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear will know what I am talking about. Do you take the parable of Lazerus literally?
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago
@SwordofManticorE It's a parable because it starts with - "There was a certain..." but just because it is a parable doesnt' take away from hell's reality. parables and metaphors are used to protray literal truths adn sometimes of literal places. It's like you are saying because it was a parable that makes it not true. The Jews always beleived in a place like hell so they knew exactly what jesus was saying when he gave the parable. (cont)
thesacredcowtipper 9 months ago
@thesacredcowtipper So if we take it litarlly, all the rich will burn and all the poor will kiss Abrahams busom forever? Hmm? While we are at it, I haven't seen any real wolves in the wild wearing sheeps pelts?
John 6:63...the words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. (I dont see literal?)
SwordofManticorE 9 months ago