I hate to add another post just for this, but I wanted to clear up the confusion I may have left when I posted earlier...the limitaton of characters per post meant I had to break my response into parts. They wound up in reverse order, so, as they stand just now, read from bottom up, starting with "The one thing." There were four posts in reverse order before this one.
make sense for a scientific perspective, the author was speculating on possible combinations of plant materials, and these were the outcomes...I don't believe these to be desireable outcomes. There is something sinister here, or else, as proto57 says, the imaginings pertaining to a fantastic and undiscovered world with a pharmacopia yet unkown. I need to study more f the other sections...
(continuing from before),...if the language is ever decrypted, which it may never be, that will still be only part of the mystery solved...if it is never decrypted, it will only serve to fuel speculation for eons to come. Whatever the case, I'm fascinated, something about the illutrations creeps me out, as if the artist had seen these things...which are obviously not of this world. There is one thing I'd state, the majority of these plants seem to be graftings...only one translation would...
@pepperdavescott Thanks for the input, all very interesting. As for grafting, I've been told that green plant grafting is unusual to see at all... that is, trees are usually grafted. In the New Atlantis, grafting is mentioned, "In these we practise likewise all conclusions of grafting, and inoculating, as well of wild-trees as fruit-trees, which produceth many effects...". He goes on to explain that plants "of many different" and "new kinds" are produced. Sound familiar?
@proto57 Sure does. Herbaceous plants and succulents are sometimes grafted...tomatoes are sometimes grafted to potato rootstock for disease resistance (at least by individuals) and you've seen the grafted cacti for sale...Don't know of much else offhand. I wonder what "inoculating" meant at that time...hey that might be a clue to pursue, actually. Any access to the OED?
The one thing that can't be dismissed is the fact of it's appearance, or reappearance, in 1912...whatever the text is, it's the phenomenaly brilliant execution of text and illustration and it's ability to evoke a whole unknown world that is so impressive. If it is fictitous, it still ranks with H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos and the resultant, sociologically significant "cult" of the Necronomicon...as well as the legends of Lemuria, Atlantis, etc...
Really nice job. Your theory makes all kinds of sense. I just stumbled across the topic of the Voynich manuscript yesterday, what a nice piece of art it is!
@pepperdavescott Thank you pepper... since we don't know the answer, "making sense" is all we can hope for at this point. I'm glad it does, to you and I and many others.
@juggleknot Interesting idea, but I tend to think they are too "mechanical" in appearance. Even if this theory is incorrect, I would suspect they still are meant to represent something man-made, like a jar or candle, and so on. As for the inks, they have not been dated. The composition of the inks was analysed, and the results revealed that they are "of a type" that was used when the vellum was created, but then, also, for some time after.
@7878toastmaster I have no problem with that idea. History is full of hoax attempts, meant to fool kings, queens, the rich, the public... why not the Voynich? It would basically explain just about everything about it, in one word, "fake".
@proto57 Now, do a video on Solomons ring, or the electricity of the ark of the covenent used in the pyramid(s?) winks. Check out humanbeingbroadcasting, maybe pick up a slot called : Theory or fact: artifacts>>???? just a thought Peace~ Vibes
@VibrationsfromMirror I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic (maybe "wink" means you are?), so I'm not sure how to respond. I don't believe in any of those things, in any case. My theory is based on the comparisons to actual, historically known optical devices, the science and culture surrounding them, and "why" someone might make a book reflecting them. Nothing "X Files" in it, at all.
@proto57 No, wasn't kidding. You made this microscope a good story. Maybe something coming soon on the letters and the old language? Sometimes fact is stranger than x-files. (well maybe close to x-files hehe)
I have found samples of the Voynich language and manuscripts containing the same letters. Not sure why no one has interpreted it yet. This is a dead language from the 14th /15th century. The Catholic Church allowed its sanctioned use. Primarily the text is refering to Astrology (primitive Astronomy), Herbs and Culture (Architecture and Customs) .
@brakanur I would love to see the manuscripts with "the same letters". I've been in this field for many years now, and have only seen a smattering of examples... outside the seeming "c", "o", "a"... that are even close to Voynichese. So this would be of great interest to me... Thanks...
The Voynich Manuscript is a notebook left behind by an alien child. The pictures of the plants come from the Yemeni island of Socotra. To learn more go to YouTube channel atlanticobr and ask for Jappa.
I have kept over 250 full journals during my life. If the oldest were dated, they would come off as being decades older than anything I might write or edit in them. I could make the 12 year old me, seem to be decades ahead of anyone else who lived at the time. The ink itself may not be sufficient to offset the time accorded to the paper... just saying.
@aztec714ok Hi Aztec: I think you may have misunderstood something here: I don't "want to make" anything. Francis Bacon wrote a book called "The New Atlantis" in the early 17th century, as his view of a Utopian civilization. It was a fantasy, yes. He called it New Atlantis, because he was musing that America was the real Atlantis, and the citizens had migrated to an island in the Pacific. It was early science-fiction.
Indeed, if one were to intentionally construct such a faux manuscript, wouldn't the first order of business be time displacement? It seems logical, "Hey, we should probably do this on some 200 year old vellum to throw em off even more, yeah?" You nailed it pardner.
@djlivingfire Thanks for the insight. And not knowing about the future of C14 dating the users of old vellum would not care much about the actual age of it... only that it look old. This may also apply to the Vinland map hoax, which C14 dating showed was not "old enough" to be what the hoaxers intended. Ironically, it dates to exactly the date of the Voynich: proto57.wordpress (dot com) /2011/02/26/something-sheepy-in-the-state-of-denmar/
I don't think dating of parchment invalidates theory (which seems plausible). Supposing someone found a cache of old parchment - deceased writer's stock in trade, maybe, kept securely then revealed as buildings or strongboxes were inherited. It is easy to imagine a playful project - a faux 'antique' book using old parchment - for own/friends' amusement, and/or bemusement/bafflement of others who might be anticipated to puzzle over it solemnly at length while the creators laughed to themselves.
@armadillozenith You and dijlingfire made my day. This may interest you, given your thoughts on this aspect: proto57.wordpress (dot com) /2011/02/26/something-sheepy-in-the-state-of-denmar/
It would be no large task to find 200 year old paper and use it to throw people off the track. I can go on ebay right now and buy 200yr old books for a few dollars. literally. Considering the high level artistry used, the woman are rather aesthetically lacking. There's a reason for that but what is it? I saw one video with comparisons of art images to human organs.... I just came across the copiale cipher and here I am.....
@IExposeMormonism Thanks for the comments... and yes, I agree with you. And yes, you can find old vellum, today, and could make a "fake ancient book". Why not in 1500, 1550, 1620, or 1912? There was even more old vellum floating around back then: proto57.wordpress (dot com) /2011/06/30/old-blank-vellum-sitting-around/
@IExposeMormonism And I do like the comparisons I've seen, between the Voynich woman, and biological functions, and other objects to organs... they do make much sense, I think, no matter when the Voynich was created.
@odracirozolev Thanks for the comment. I originally made them for another video... you can see it on my account, called, "Voynich Manuscript Rosettes in 3D". That video was just to illustrate the map page in 3D, without any theory attached. I'd like to make models of the crossbow, and scales, and a few other things.
What if? Is the ultimate question.........
bodyrock5 2 weeks ago
One of the better hypothesis put forward.
whanethewhip 2 weeks ago
I hate to add another post just for this, but I wanted to clear up the confusion I may have left when I posted earlier...the limitaton of characters per post meant I had to break my response into parts. They wound up in reverse order, so, as they stand just now, read from bottom up, starting with "The one thing." There were four posts in reverse order before this one.
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
make sense for a scientific perspective, the author was speculating on possible combinations of plant materials, and these were the outcomes...I don't believe these to be desireable outcomes. There is something sinister here, or else, as proto57 says, the imaginings pertaining to a fantastic and undiscovered world with a pharmacopia yet unkown. I need to study more f the other sections...
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
(continuing from before),...if the language is ever decrypted, which it may never be, that will still be only part of the mystery solved...if it is never decrypted, it will only serve to fuel speculation for eons to come. Whatever the case, I'm fascinated, something about the illutrations creeps me out, as if the artist had seen these things...which are obviously not of this world. There is one thing I'd state, the majority of these plants seem to be graftings...only one translation would...
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
@pepperdavescott Thanks for the input, all very interesting. As for grafting, I've been told that green plant grafting is unusual to see at all... that is, trees are usually grafted. In the New Atlantis, grafting is mentioned, "In these we practise likewise all conclusions of grafting, and inoculating, as well of wild-trees as fruit-trees, which produceth many effects...". He goes on to explain that plants "of many different" and "new kinds" are produced. Sound familiar?
proto57 3 weeks ago
@proto57 Sure does. Herbaceous plants and succulents are sometimes grafted...tomatoes are sometimes grafted to potato rootstock for disease resistance (at least by individuals) and you've seen the grafted cacti for sale...Don't know of much else offhand. I wonder what "inoculating" meant at that time...hey that might be a clue to pursue, actually. Any access to the OED?
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
The one thing that can't be dismissed is the fact of it's appearance, or reappearance, in 1912...whatever the text is, it's the phenomenaly brilliant execution of text and illustration and it's ability to evoke a whole unknown world that is so impressive. If it is fictitous, it still ranks with H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos and the resultant, sociologically significant "cult" of the Necronomicon...as well as the legends of Lemuria, Atlantis, etc...
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
Really nice job. Your theory makes all kinds of sense. I just stumbled across the topic of the Voynich manuscript yesterday, what a nice piece of art it is!
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
@pepperdavescott Thank you pepper... since we don't know the answer, "making sense" is all we can hope for at this point. I'm glad it does, to you and I and many others.
proto57 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
how old are the inks?
the things you call microscopes look more like cross-sections of plant stems to me
juggleknot 4 weeks ago
@juggleknot Interesting idea, but I tend to think they are too "mechanical" in appearance. Even if this theory is incorrect, I would suspect they still are meant to represent something man-made, like a jar or candle, and so on. As for the inks, they have not been dated. The composition of the inks was analysed, and the results revealed that they are "of a type" that was used when the vellum was created, but then, also, for some time after.
proto57 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
a hoax for the queen!!!
7878toastmaster 1 month ago
@7878toastmaster I have no problem with that idea. History is full of hoax attempts, meant to fool kings, queens, the rich, the public... why not the Voynich? It would basically explain just about everything about it, in one word, "fake".
proto57 1 month ago
@proto57 Yet if fake, what a brilliant fake!
pepperdavescott 3 weeks ago
seems obvious by your video. thx for the post.
VibrationsfromMirror 1 month ago
@VibrationsfromMirror Well thank you for your nice comment, and feedback.
proto57 1 month ago
@proto57 Now, do a video on Solomons ring, or the electricity of the ark of the covenent used in the pyramid(s?) winks. Check out humanbeingbroadcasting, maybe pick up a slot called : Theory or fact: artifacts>>???? just a thought Peace~ Vibes
VibrationsfromMirror 1 month ago
@VibrationsfromMirror I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic (maybe "wink" means you are?), so I'm not sure how to respond. I don't believe in any of those things, in any case. My theory is based on the comparisons to actual, historically known optical devices, the science and culture surrounding them, and "why" someone might make a book reflecting them. Nothing "X Files" in it, at all.
proto57 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@proto57 No, wasn't kidding. You made this microscope a good story. Maybe something coming soon on the letters and the old language? Sometimes fact is stranger than x-files. (well maybe close to x-files hehe)
VibrationsfromMirror 3 weeks ago
I have found samples of the Voynich language and manuscripts containing the same letters. Not sure why no one has interpreted it yet. This is a dead language from the 14th /15th century. The Catholic Church allowed its sanctioned use. Primarily the text is refering to Astrology (primitive Astronomy), Herbs and Culture (Architecture and Customs) .
brakanur 1 month ago
@brakanur I would love to see the manuscripts with "the same letters". I've been in this field for many years now, and have only seen a smattering of examples... outside the seeming "c", "o", "a"... that are even close to Voynichese. So this would be of great interest to me... Thanks...
proto57 1 month ago
Nicely done and well thought-out. A puzzle it is.
humboldthammer 1 month ago
@humboldthammer Thanks for the nice comments.
proto57 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is all nonsense...The title page of book this was deciphered years ago..
It says "To Serve Man"....it's a COOKBOOK !
airwalker13 1 month ago
@airwalker13 Very funny!
proto57 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Voynich Manuscript is a notebook left behind by an alien child. The pictures of the plants come from the Yemeni island of Socotra. To learn more go to YouTube channel atlanticobr and ask for Jappa.
zetareticuli4 1 month ago
I have kept over 250 full journals during my life. If the oldest were dated, they would come off as being decades older than anything I might write or edit in them. I could make the 12 year old me, seem to be decades ahead of anyone else who lived at the time. The ink itself may not be sufficient to offset the time accorded to the paper... just saying.
doceigen 1 month ago
what a joke you want to make a fake and primitive atlantis..monkey brains
aztec714ok 1 month ago
@aztec714ok Hi Aztec: I think you may have misunderstood something here: I don't "want to make" anything. Francis Bacon wrote a book called "The New Atlantis" in the early 17th century, as his view of a Utopian civilization. It was a fantasy, yes. He called it New Atlantis, because he was musing that America was the real Atlantis, and the citizens had migrated to an island in the Pacific. It was early science-fiction.
proto57 1 month ago
Indeed, if one were to intentionally construct such a faux manuscript, wouldn't the first order of business be time displacement? It seems logical, "Hey, we should probably do this on some 200 year old vellum to throw em off even more, yeah?" You nailed it pardner.
djlivingfire 2 months ago
@djlivingfire Thanks for the insight. And not knowing about the future of C14 dating the users of old vellum would not care much about the actual age of it... only that it look old. This may also apply to the Vinland map hoax, which C14 dating showed was not "old enough" to be what the hoaxers intended. Ironically, it dates to exactly the date of the Voynich: proto57.wordpress (dot com) /2011/02/26/something-sheepy-in-the-state-of-denmar/
proto57 1 month ago
I don't think dating of parchment invalidates theory (which seems plausible). Supposing someone found a cache of old parchment - deceased writer's stock in trade, maybe, kept securely then revealed as buildings or strongboxes were inherited. It is easy to imagine a playful project - a faux 'antique' book using old parchment - for own/friends' amusement, and/or bemusement/bafflement of others who might be anticipated to puzzle over it solemnly at length while the creators laughed to themselves.
armadillozenith 2 months ago
@armadillozenith You and dijlingfire made my day. This may interest you, given your thoughts on this aspect: proto57.wordpress (dot com) /2011/02/26/something-sheepy-in-the-state-of-denmar/
proto57 1 month ago
the drawings in the manuscript look a lot like ed leedskalnin's sweet sixteen, the field generated by the flywheel
144hatsoff 2 months ago
Thank You for sharing..Awesome Theory!!
prplgrn 3 months ago
@prplgrn Well thank you so much for your comment! "Who knows?", but we keep trying, right?
proto57 2 months ago
It would be no large task to find 200 year old paper and use it to throw people off the track. I can go on ebay right now and buy 200yr old books for a few dollars. literally. Considering the high level artistry used, the woman are rather aesthetically lacking. There's a reason for that but what is it? I saw one video with comparisons of art images to human organs.... I just came across the copiale cipher and here I am.....
IExposeMormonism 4 months ago
@IExposeMormonism Thanks for the comments... and yes, I agree with you. And yes, you can find old vellum, today, and could make a "fake ancient book". Why not in 1500, 1550, 1620, or 1912? There was even more old vellum floating around back then: proto57.wordpress (dot com) /2011/06/30/old-blank-vellum-sitting-around/
proto57 1 month ago
@IExposeMormonism And I do like the comparisons I've seen, between the Voynich woman, and biological functions, and other objects to organs... they do make much sense, I think, no matter when the Voynich was created.
proto57 1 month ago
That was very interesting, and it DOES make sense.
Vingador 4 months ago
@Vingador Well thanks much, Vingador. You guys made my day.
proto57 1 month ago
:)
luquytas 10 months ago
great 3D models on those maps!
odracirozolev 1 year ago
@odracirozolev Thanks for the comment. I originally made them for another video... you can see it on my account, called, "Voynich Manuscript Rosettes in 3D". That video was just to illustrate the map page in 3D, without any theory attached. I'd like to make models of the crossbow, and scales, and a few other things.
proto57 1 year ago