Homes don't use energy, people do. Picking the efficiency of a home apart has done nothing for us but help us to keep ignorant of the fact that all homes are zero energy, off grid homes. As soon as you flip a main breaker. LEED homes still get sold to people that want hot tubs, and 8 computers and tv's. Efficiency is 100% up to the occupant, focusing on the place being occupied is truely ignorant. But welcome to the world of gubment checks, gubment "efficiency" programs. Popularizing stupidity
@HomeEnergyNow Occupants of houses use energy only when they need to. If a house is well insulated and requires significantly less heating and cooling, the occupant will simply not need to use a heater or air conditioner thus saving significant energy and without effort. The same goes for using solar hot water or low energy LED globes for lighting. Saying it's up the occupant is aburd it just assumes that a person will sit in the cold and dark using nothing.
@1dschamp It's called fireplace and candles. Is LED and superefficient lighting going to save a dime if the occupant chooses to use free fire? This is you "Occupants of houses use energy only when they need to" this is reality: 100 years ago most homes didnt even hook up to energy. Just 2 family generations to become dependant on energy providers, gasoline, oil, plastic, chinese shit. To say a home needs to be powered are the words of a TRUE new age American pussy.
Why cant you spray foam contractors just get a simple license like BPI or RESNET? Sorry you were lied to so heavily by your distributors, but you were. In a new home HVAC doesnt even use 40% of the energy. If I were to double my wall R-value with foam board, go to over R-25, I would save 16$/year. (free trial of REMdesign available). These are the real savings numbers. Calculate my home as spray foam instead, would cost me 46$/year in lost energy. I have the calculators and the proof, you have?
Every home needs .35 ACH,(air changes/hr) there is no changing this requirement. Tightest home I ever tested didnt' have a drop of foam. Foam actually does a worse job than a human with a caulking gun for sealing homes. Every home we build was .35ACH or slightly tighter w/out foam, unless you want to risk your familys health, there are absolutely ZERO savings from foam with air sealing. Now R-value, foam doesnt reach HALF the R value of loosefill. There you are idiots, the reasons for your 3%
There is many spray foam now with 10-50% of recycled materials. It is not a perfectly green product but it is simply the best insulation for the money. Many LEED homes have spray foam. Reason is simple, it is affordable, will last for 50 years or more and the best product to seal a house. No other insulation come close, period.
@uceid How is the best for the money? Please explain? Fiberglass is warrantied for as long as the owner owns the home. Many LEED homes have spray foam because people that pay money to have somebody give their house a name, would be stupid enough to thing the most expensive insulation must be the best. R-60, loosefills do it, foam can hardly make up half of that. Every wall has two air barriers, if you need a third(spray foam) your plain retarded. Less than 3% of the market for a reason, period.
@uceid LEED is just another for profit looking to profit. First off, vapor barriers are recommended against by your own DOE, closed cell at that depth is a no no. Most LEED homes are fiberglass. Fiberglass goes over R-4/inch. Wouldn't matter obviously I am talking to another unlicensed energy guru. Going from R-13 to R-25 in the walls on a new 2000sqft home, saves 18$/year. Use math much? Does that sound like a good investment?
@uceid Energy efficiency book nerds meet the world of new const. when they talk about 2x6 walls. When you use fatter walls, you are taking 150$/sqft with you. Build a home that is 2000sqft living, use 2x6 walls, now it's 1950sqft, you just lost @7500$ worth of floor space. Oh the ignorance of the home energy industry amazes me. btw, going to a 2x6 wall, according to REMdesign. will save @8$/year. LOL LEED, E-STAR, all a bunch of greedy fags that blame homes for peoples inefficiency.
I have MANY people that save that %50. Problem is the people that do not install the foam properly . You must have some bad foamers in your area. We need good honest people to do the right job per the code. All of this depends on what the local area builds to: IRC, IECC or the Green building code. All of these have specific building techniques "PER THE CODE"... if people do not understand the building products (and the code) you will have some angry people that spread confusing information.
You do realize that when you spray foam you use codes "exceptions". Meaning it does not meet code R-value when applied w/usual R-19 ceiling. To get around the codes with spray foam (exception), you prove that you have made up for it's inferiority somewhere else in the house, like SEER. Now this from IECC12, "The elimination of envelope-equipment trade-offs as a compliance option." Spray foams can not meet many Rminimums in ceilings, sounds like spray foams are fucked. No more making up for it.
@HomeEnergyNow .....Spray foam applied to the ceiling ....that is for IRC homes. When building to IECC it is a different R-value needed. Say Climate Zone 7 or 8 needs an R-49 to the Ceiling and an R-35 to the roof deck. 2 different buildings have 2 different needs.
@SprayFoamInspections 2012 They both limit the amount of cathedral(roof deck). So how are you going to get R-49 with spray foam? Can you even get R-35 with the spray foams? Neither IRC or IECC allow spray foams to be "balanced" with other options that are superior to code such as higher efficiency HVAC, better windows, they used to but not for 2012. The fact that spray foams inferior performance as to be "balanced" in the first place should be your sign it sucks.
Name something that is part of the oil industry, that doesn't have propaganda? Foam is only a better insulation on youtube, and the propaganda machine. I just can't believe all of the idiots selling it and installing it. Sad state of math in this country. Just trust the foam salesmans math! LOL
I had a client that saved 50% on his energy bills after installing spray foam. Build it tight, "is right." Just build to the 2012 I.E.C.C. and not to the I.R.C. and you will have a "Green home" . Foam is the future get used to it....
@SprayFoamInspections Future?Been around for over 40 years, isn't even 3% of the market. Get off youtube, get out of the home shows, and try to build something. 99% of builders say no to foam. Oil industry loves your ignorance, calling an oil product green. moron. Did you have a client save 50% like every other foamer says? LOL Look it up moron, HVAC doesnt even account for more than 42% of the avg. bill. It is even smaller on new construction, which is why builders arent foam selling idiots
what part of the back wood country are you in. 99% say no??? thats just crazy. we have been spraying foam for nearly 8 years now and that is all we do. ask any subcontractor that has worked in a foam house ( a good foam job ) and he will tell you himself it is the best way to go.
@EnviroTech09 97% of insulation projects are not spray foam. Sure, cause "any subcontractor" can change the outcome of my A/C licensed BTU load? I am required to size the unit around the details of the home. Spray foam is a detail that requires me to increase the BTU load of a house, aka, INCREASE the size of the HVAC. 8 years of straight fucking people over, get a goddamned license or shut up. You have know idea how to calculate a BTU load, but have been in insulation for 8 years?
@EnviroTech09 An insulator telling a builder something.............LOL you are like the drywallers/concrete crews, the dumbest contractors on the jobsite.
WOW you have had some serious problems with insulators havent you. This is the problem with spray foam there is a lot of people out there that have not been properly trained. all of our builders would not choose any thing else but foam. but thats because we know how to give the the proper thermal sealed envelope which is code
@EnviroTech09 Sealed thermal envelope starts at the outside air barrier. Funny thing is your foams are not even rated to pentrate the outside air barrier so wherever it does seal, will deteriorate from UV or moisture. Envelopes tighter than .35ACH are a risk, someday you will find out why. We, like most people who have avioded spray foams for almost half a century, realize those risks arent worth saving 50$/year in energy. Tightest house I have tested had R-40 walls, R-60 ceiling, ZERO foam.
D1 ...what are u in charge of? The savings is green....as in money and energy required to heat or cool your house. Obviously you didn't give this much thought before you threw up all over my post here.
No, in comparisons to insulations that go to R-60 for much less money, foam is the worst choice for saving money. It costs more to install, it costs more to heat and cool with foam roof deck vs. R-60 on the ceiling. D1 guy is angry but I have run multiple cost return software and like him have yet to figure out how foam ever managed to get itself into the residential home industry. It isn't the most efficient insulation, it isn't made efficiently, and it is the least cost efficient to install
@zezza2006 As a license A/C guy, a home with foam roof deck vs. a loosefill home installed on the ceiling. You lose green with foam every month because it HAS A HIGHER BTU LOAD, NEEDS A LARGER HVAC, NOW YOU CONDITION THE ATTIC PEOPLE, CONDITIONING THE ATTIC!!!! HELLO?. It is throwing green away, both on the cost of the spray foam, then the sorry performance. Damn it people, can any of you calculate a BTU load it is not that hard. I think foam fans refuse, they don't want to know it sucks.
@EnviroTech09 97% left to go idiot. Super tight homes are not even to code, tell me, do you just poke a hole when your done for fresh air? Or do you just not build to code?
Would you prefer I vomit lies like these guys? They lie when they call it green, it is a petro product very similar to plastic, do you believe plastic insulation is more green than old newspaper or ground up sand? They call it a superior insulation and throw savings numbers around, but where is the math? Where is the manual J that proves it's inferiority? I will continue to vomit hate towards anybody that wants to vomit more disinformation. If you believe them fine, not all people like math
@durasealspf At least I can do simple math. I may be a shit head, but anybody that thinks foam is some "new cool" product is shit for brains. DO THE MATH. I guess it is a shithead thing to do when you see a snake oil product being sold only to people too dumb to calculate a return on investment. I spent years proving it to people with house after house and still there would be some foam doofus trying to tell me foam is better. WE BUILD HOUSES, TEST HOUSES, CALCULATE LOADS. We actually know
Nothing worse than buttoning up an old house too tight. When you use spray foam on a building that old you'll destroy the original envelope. When the natural envelope is disturbed, mold and rot grow in the weirdest places. Happens every time. Even an air exchanger/handler wont stop this house from growing mold!
@MrRoberoni117 Any house with 70%+ humidity is at risk whatever the tightness, age of the home or insulation used. If you are stupid enough to spray foam over walls with water issue, you deserve mold. Prevent humidity from coming in THEN seal the house. Proper water drainage was lacking in the past, over that we had little to no insulation. Humidity issues should be solved from the outside in, not from the inside only.
Where is the green? Just becuase it is bio based doesnt mean its not 99% petro. When using a RESNET return on investment calculator, this insulation has the worst return date of any product, because of its cost. The only "green" I see is the money being thrown away on this product.
Homes don't use energy, people do. Picking the efficiency of a home apart has done nothing for us but help us to keep ignorant of the fact that all homes are zero energy, off grid homes. As soon as you flip a main breaker. LEED homes still get sold to people that want hot tubs, and 8 computers and tv's. Efficiency is 100% up to the occupant, focusing on the place being occupied is truely ignorant. But welcome to the world of gubment checks, gubment "efficiency" programs. Popularizing stupidity
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow Occupants of houses use energy only when they need to. If a house is well insulated and requires significantly less heating and cooling, the occupant will simply not need to use a heater or air conditioner thus saving significant energy and without effort. The same goes for using solar hot water or low energy LED globes for lighting. Saying it's up the occupant is aburd it just assumes that a person will sit in the cold and dark using nothing.
1dschamp 2 months ago
@1dschamp It's called fireplace and candles. Is LED and superefficient lighting going to save a dime if the occupant chooses to use free fire? This is you "Occupants of houses use energy only when they need to" this is reality: 100 years ago most homes didnt even hook up to energy. Just 2 family generations to become dependant on energy providers, gasoline, oil, plastic, chinese shit. To say a home needs to be powered are the words of a TRUE new age American pussy.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
Why cant you spray foam contractors just get a simple license like BPI or RESNET? Sorry you were lied to so heavily by your distributors, but you were. In a new home HVAC doesnt even use 40% of the energy. If I were to double my wall R-value with foam board, go to over R-25, I would save 16$/year. (free trial of REMdesign available). These are the real savings numbers. Calculate my home as spray foam instead, would cost me 46$/year in lost energy. I have the calculators and the proof, you have?
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
Every home needs .35 ACH,(air changes/hr) there is no changing this requirement. Tightest home I ever tested didnt' have a drop of foam. Foam actually does a worse job than a human with a caulking gun for sealing homes. Every home we build was .35ACH or slightly tighter w/out foam, unless you want to risk your familys health, there are absolutely ZERO savings from foam with air sealing. Now R-value, foam doesnt reach HALF the R value of loosefill. There you are idiots, the reasons for your 3%
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
There is many spray foam now with 10-50% of recycled materials. It is not a perfectly green product but it is simply the best insulation for the money. Many LEED homes have spray foam. Reason is simple, it is affordable, will last for 50 years or more and the best product to seal a house. No other insulation come close, period.
uceid 3 months ago
@uceid How is the best for the money? Please explain? Fiberglass is warrantied for as long as the owner owns the home. Many LEED homes have spray foam because people that pay money to have somebody give their house a name, would be stupid enough to thing the most expensive insulation must be the best. R-60, loosefills do it, foam can hardly make up half of that. Every wall has two air barriers, if you need a third(spray foam) your plain retarded. Less than 3% of the market for a reason, period.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow
1- Fiberglass has been used for decades and is the cheapest, which explain why it has so much of the market share.
2- LEED is a set of standards, not just a name.
3- LEED homes mostly use 2x6 exterior walls (5.5"). Spray foam is R-6 per inch, cellulose is 4. And LEED does not use any fiberglass to my knowledge.
So in a 5.5" wall you get:
Spray foam: R33
Cellulose: R22
If you use 2x8, cost sky rocket for your exterior walls. This is how spray foam becomes a better option to me.
uceid 2 months ago
@uceid LEED is just another for profit looking to profit. First off, vapor barriers are recommended against by your own DOE, closed cell at that depth is a no no. Most LEED homes are fiberglass. Fiberglass goes over R-4/inch. Wouldn't matter obviously I am talking to another unlicensed energy guru. Going from R-13 to R-25 in the walls on a new 2000sqft home, saves 18$/year. Use math much? Does that sound like a good investment?
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow Ok, sorry buddy, not even worth a reply.
uceid 2 months ago
@uceid Energy efficiency book nerds meet the world of new const. when they talk about 2x6 walls. When you use fatter walls, you are taking 150$/sqft with you. Build a home that is 2000sqft living, use 2x6 walls, now it's 1950sqft, you just lost @7500$ worth of floor space. Oh the ignorance of the home energy industry amazes me. btw, going to a 2x6 wall, according to REMdesign. will save @8$/year. LOL LEED, E-STAR, all a bunch of greedy fags that blame homes for peoples inefficiency.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
I have MANY people that save that %50. Problem is the people that do not install the foam properly . You must have some bad foamers in your area. We need good honest people to do the right job per the code. All of this depends on what the local area builds to: IRC, IECC or the Green building code. All of these have specific building techniques "PER THE CODE"... if people do not understand the building products (and the code) you will have some angry people that spread confusing information.
SprayFoamInspections 3 months ago
You do realize that when you spray foam you use codes "exceptions". Meaning it does not meet code R-value when applied w/usual R-19 ceiling. To get around the codes with spray foam (exception), you prove that you have made up for it's inferiority somewhere else in the house, like SEER. Now this from IECC12, "The elimination of envelope-equipment trade-offs as a compliance option." Spray foams can not meet many Rminimums in ceilings, sounds like spray foams are fucked. No more making up for it.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow .....Spray foam applied to the ceiling ....that is for IRC homes. When building to IECC it is a different R-value needed. Say Climate Zone 7 or 8 needs an R-49 to the Ceiling and an R-35 to the roof deck. 2 different buildings have 2 different needs.
SprayFoamInspections 1 month ago
@SprayFoamInspections 2012 They both limit the amount of cathedral(roof deck). So how are you going to get R-49 with spray foam? Can you even get R-35 with the spray foams? Neither IRC or IECC allow spray foams to be "balanced" with other options that are superior to code such as higher efficiency HVAC, better windows, they used to but not for 2012. The fact that spray foams inferior performance as to be "balanced" in the first place should be your sign it sucks.
HomeEnergyNow 1 month ago
Name something that is part of the oil industry, that doesn't have propaganda? Foam is only a better insulation on youtube, and the propaganda machine. I just can't believe all of the idiots selling it and installing it. Sad state of math in this country. Just trust the foam salesmans math! LOL
HomeEnergyNow 3 months ago
I had a client that saved 50% on his energy bills after installing spray foam. Build it tight, "is right." Just build to the 2012 I.E.C.C. and not to the I.R.C. and you will have a "Green home" . Foam is the future get used to it....
SprayFoamInspections 4 months ago
@SprayFoamInspections Future?Been around for over 40 years, isn't even 3% of the market. Get off youtube, get out of the home shows, and try to build something. 99% of builders say no to foam. Oil industry loves your ignorance, calling an oil product green. moron. Did you have a client save 50% like every other foamer says? LOL Look it up moron, HVAC doesnt even account for more than 42% of the avg. bill. It is even smaller on new construction, which is why builders arent foam selling idiots
HomeEnergyNow 3 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow
what part of the back wood country are you in. 99% say no??? thats just crazy. we have been spraying foam for nearly 8 years now and that is all we do. ask any subcontractor that has worked in a foam house ( a good foam job ) and he will tell you himself it is the best way to go.
EnviroTech09 2 months ago
@EnviroTech09 97% of insulation projects are not spray foam. Sure, cause "any subcontractor" can change the outcome of my A/C licensed BTU load? I am required to size the unit around the details of the home. Spray foam is a detail that requires me to increase the BTU load of a house, aka, INCREASE the size of the HVAC. 8 years of straight fucking people over, get a goddamned license or shut up. You have know idea how to calculate a BTU load, but have been in insulation for 8 years?
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@SprayFoamInspections
Preach it brother LOL I have been telling builders for nearly eight years that a good foam job can not be beat. It is the wave of the futrure
EnviroTech09 2 months ago
@EnviroTech09 An insulator telling a builder something.............LOL you are like the drywallers/concrete crews, the dumbest contractors on the jobsite.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow
WOW you have had some serious problems with insulators havent you. This is the problem with spray foam there is a lot of people out there that have not been properly trained. all of our builders would not choose any thing else but foam. but thats because we know how to give the the proper thermal sealed envelope which is code
EnviroTech09 2 months ago
@EnviroTech09 How do you bring fresh air? Your builders are MORONS.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
@EnviroTech09 Sealed thermal envelope starts at the outside air barrier. Funny thing is your foams are not even rated to pentrate the outside air barrier so wherever it does seal, will deteriorate from UV or moisture. Envelopes tighter than .35ACH are a risk, someday you will find out why. We, like most people who have avioded spray foams for almost half a century, realize those risks arent worth saving 50$/year in energy. Tightest house I have tested had R-40 walls, R-60 ceiling, ZERO foam.
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
D1 ...what are u in charge of? The savings is green....as in money and energy required to heat or cool your house. Obviously you didn't give this much thought before you threw up all over my post here.
zezza2006 7 months ago
No, in comparisons to insulations that go to R-60 for much less money, foam is the worst choice for saving money. It costs more to install, it costs more to heat and cool with foam roof deck vs. R-60 on the ceiling. D1 guy is angry but I have run multiple cost return software and like him have yet to figure out how foam ever managed to get itself into the residential home industry. It isn't the most efficient insulation, it isn't made efficiently, and it is the least cost efficient to install
HomeEnergyNow 6 months ago
@zezza2006 As a license A/C guy, a home with foam roof deck vs. a loosefill home installed on the ceiling. You lose green with foam every month because it HAS A HIGHER BTU LOAD, NEEDS A LARGER HVAC, NOW YOU CONDITION THE ATTIC PEOPLE, CONDITIONING THE ATTIC!!!! HELLO?. It is throwing green away, both on the cost of the spray foam, then the sorry performance. Damn it people, can any of you calculate a BTU load it is not that hard. I think foam fans refuse, they don't want to know it sucks.
HomeEnergyNow 3 months ago
@zezza2006
I seriously thought that all these arguments were over ( at least in our area it is )
EnviroTech09 2 months ago
@EnviroTech09 97% left to go idiot. Super tight homes are not even to code, tell me, do you just poke a hole when your done for fresh air? Or do you just not build to code?
HomeEnergyNow 2 months ago
Would you prefer I vomit lies like these guys? They lie when they call it green, it is a petro product very similar to plastic, do you believe plastic insulation is more green than old newspaper or ground up sand? They call it a superior insulation and throw savings numbers around, but where is the math? Where is the manual J that proves it's inferiority? I will continue to vomit hate towards anybody that wants to vomit more disinformation. If you believe them fine, not all people like math
d1incharge 7 months ago 3
Hey D1incharge........You are a SHIT HEAD ! I have wanted to tell you that for a long time now.
durasealspf 1 year ago 2
@durasealspf
D1incharge, is unpleasant, and he just vomits hate where ever he goes. I really feel sorry for him.
latitude500 1 year ago
@durasealspf At least I can do simple math. I may be a shit head, but anybody that thinks foam is some "new cool" product is shit for brains. DO THE MATH. I guess it is a shithead thing to do when you see a snake oil product being sold only to people too dumb to calculate a return on investment. I spent years proving it to people with house after house and still there would be some foam doofus trying to tell me foam is better. WE BUILD HOUSES, TEST HOUSES, CALCULATE LOADS. We actually know
d1incharge 7 months ago
that job probably cost about 15 grand at least
bigavelli13 1 year ago
@bigavelli13 here in alberta youd be looking at like 50,000 easy lol just for the one floor
coasterforce2 5 months ago
Nothing worse than buttoning up an old house too tight. When you use spray foam on a building that old you'll destroy the original envelope. When the natural envelope is disturbed, mold and rot grow in the weirdest places. Happens every time. Even an air exchanger/handler wont stop this house from growing mold!
MrRoberoni117 1 year ago 7
@MrRoberoni117 Any house with 70%+ humidity is at risk whatever the tightness, age of the home or insulation used. If you are stupid enough to spray foam over walls with water issue, you deserve mold. Prevent humidity from coming in THEN seal the house. Proper water drainage was lacking in the past, over that we had little to no insulation. Humidity issues should be solved from the outside in, not from the inside only.
uceid 2 months ago
Where is the green? Just becuase it is bio based doesnt mean its not 99% petro. When using a RESNET return on investment calculator, this insulation has the worst return date of any product, because of its cost. The only "green" I see is the money being thrown away on this product.
d1incharge 1 year ago
That is a tight product you are working with. Great job on the house.
latitude500 1 year ago