Nacelle dome test

[RobertMfromLI]

That (my comment to Spartan) brings up something interesting. You NEVER see the port side of the model. There is a misconception that it was seen in Mirror Mirror. Aptly or ironically, the film was "mirrored" to create that scene, with the registry numbers masked and put back in the same direction.

Every now and then, you get a *tiny* glimpse of the port side (rear shots, or ship going into orbit) where you can barely see there's... nothing there.

[SpartanPrimus]

they got rid of these bright spining things and replaced them with a deep red dome somewhere in the seasons

[millenniumf1138]

@SpartanPrimus You have it backwards. The first and second pilot ships had solid red domes with no lighting effects, then by the time the series had started it's production run they added the spinning effects. You can tell it was an after-market add on when you look at the filming miniature in the Smithsonian. The wiring leading to the nacelles is on the exterior of the pylons rather than built into them.

[SpartanPrimus]

@millenniumf1138 i noticed trhat 2 or 3 times in a single episode they would change back and forth (solid red, glowing, solid agian)

[RobertMfromLI]

@SpartanPrimus That's a funds issue. In the series, in many episodes, you will find *THREE* versions of the shooting model (in a couple, you will find those, PLUS another model or two). See next response for details...

[RobertMfromLI]

@SpartanPrimus

Here's the breakdown of the versions/models:

1. Original 11': pilot variant - NO lighting, blocks on end of engines

2. Orig 11' 2nd pilot var - some lighting, holes on ends of engines

3. Orig 11' Production var - lighting as we know it, including nacelle blinkies

4. Orig 3' model (matching #1) - seen largely in 1st pilot

5. Orig 3' model (matching #3 sans lights) - seen in a few episodes

6. AMT/Ertl model - seen in Doomsday Machine (Constellation)

[RobertMfromLI]

@SpartanPrimus There was ONE 11' model - it was upgraded before the 2nd pilot and before the regular production. The 3' was upgraded for production to match the 11' (sans lights).

They were so "broke" that the ship was never finished (port side unfinished, only 3 of the 4 saucer top lights were real - one was simply a paint block (port aft one), only 2 or 3 of the forward port edge windows were cut, and when lights burnt out, they generally stayed that way.

[SpartanPrimus]

@RobertMfromLI haha i didnt know that! but just to show you wat im talking about, watch TOS "a taste of armagedon" (spelled wrong srry) and youll see

[RobertMfromLI]

@SpartanPrimus You can see it in most episodes. Less stock footage of the 1st pilot model as the show went on, but lots of footage of the 2nd pilot were reused. Specifically, you can notice this in some "Enterprise enters orbit" shots, as well as in numerous of the "Enterprise leaves system, cut to end credits" - the noticeable signs are the lack of the domes on the back of the warp engines (holes instead).

[SpartanPrimus]

@RobertMfromLI YES! thats what i mean

(:

[RobertMfromLI]

@SpartanPrimus Add youtube url and slash before the video link in my last post... :-)

[SpartanPrimus]

@RobertMfromLI haha can you repost the URL?

[RobertMfromLI]

@SpartanPrimus Check your YouTube email...

[1958Antimatter]

Wrong direction. Left clockwise.

[RobertMfromLI]

@1958Antimatter Nope, it changed direction sometime during the seasons. And of course, in some shots, it changed direction (back and forth) during a single scene (most notably when the camera is looking down "through" the nacelles and they simply forward-reverse-forward-revers­e the film). The only thing consistent is that they turn opposite directions from each other (ie: if left is going clockwise, then right is going counter - or vice versa).

[millenniumf1138]

@RobertMfromLI Are you sure it's not simply persistence of vision?

[RobertMfromLI]

@millenniumf1138 Nope, I am sure... we "kinda" heavily research this stuff for Star Trek Phase 2. Right down to the number of each color Christmas tree light bulb that was in each and the number of vanes on the "spinny thingie" under the dome.

[millenniumf1138]

@RobertMfromLI No, I mean about the reversing of the blades. They still used film back then, as opposed to the digital cameras we use today, and if the blades rotated at a frequency just above that of the camera speed, they would appear to change direction.

I have built an experimental dome for my Enterprise model using the original design, and it did this when I filmed it using my dad's old 75mm camera (to see if it looked like the old show). It did appear to reverse directionson the TV.

[RobertMfromLI]

@millenniumf1138

Hi, nope, that's not the case. The rotational speed was nowhere near a speed that'd cause that. Two things happened - one of which I can verify, the other one of my fellow STP2 Team Members claims is true (and he's one of the most knowledgeably people on anything TOS related that I know):

1: "over the saucer" shots (ship in tow) used forward/reverse/forward/revers­­e film segments causing the nacelles to do the same

2: at some point, the standard nacelle rotation was changed.

[millenniumf1138]

@RobertMfromLI Okay. I have about half of the TOS episodes on VHS; can you give me an episode name where the reversing occurs? I don't have any season 3 episodes, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on who you ask). I would like to see this for myself.

[RobertMfromLI]

@millenniumf1138 (Clarification)

1: "over the saucer" shots (ship in tow) used forward/reverse/forward/revers­­­e film segments causing the nacelles to do the same. Inotherwords, nacelle spin direction would forward and reverse because the film was being run backwards and forwards

2: at some point, the standard nacelle rotation was changed.

Inotherwords, in season x (dunno which one), something was changed in the model and the nacelle spins were reversed.

[millenniumf1138]

@RobertMfromLI Hmm. One episode that comes to mind which would show "over the saucer" shot you mention would be The Doomsday Machine. I'll see if I have that one.

I hate to bother you with questions; is there an article or webpage discussing this that you know of and can link me to?

[RobertMfromLI]

@millenniumf1138 And possibly "Space Seed" (Botany Bay in tow)

I sent you a message via YouTube with my email address. Would be a lot easier to continue this conversation that way, so I can provide you links and send messages that aren't so brief.

[archangel72367]

i am working on the same thing with lightwave 9.6. What program did you use?

[video166]

I always thought that it went "clockwise" on that side.

[TitanicWHV]

wonderful :)