Battle of the Ports HD #3 (Destruction Derby)

[midland88]

lol the smoke

[MrOriginalstevo]

One of the most overrated games of all time...just my opinion.

[TheRetroactiveGamer]

I have both, to me PS1>>>>>Saturn

[LordHumungusFL]

I have this game for the PSX (and Saturn) and I dont remember it looking this good, are you playing this game on the PS2? looks to good IMO.

[VGMGarden]

ps1 has better smoke effects and looks like a backdrop in the distance.

saturn had serious popup when the entire stadium vanished and reapperard.

[azz666]

amazing VG soundtrack

[Senhordaverdadeabsol]

at 3:58 I was looking at differences and then ...WHERE THE FUCK THAT HEAD CAME FROM ON THE SATURN VERSION???

[lettucekl]

The Saturn smoke effects suck, Sega should of really spent more time in developing the hardware that was going to be used in the Saturn. No wonder developers dropped the Saturn early on was soo hard to get games comparable to the PS in looks and performance departments

[SNESFanboy64]

The Ps1 Version Looks smoother and the colors are not as soft. Saturn is known for alot of really soft and ugly colors.

[mick1470]

Wow the saturn 3d graphics is so ugly!!

The saturn should've stick to 2d.

[Sc0tsman33]

PSX WON, SS had not proper 8-bit alpha channel shitty fog effects, smoke, night lights,drawing distance much better on psx, lack of effects like picture in picture on ss ,no tv screen on beginner track

[grgmj1980]

playstation takes this round

[dinizgames]

Oh come on people, the Saturn was indeed built to run polygons, it is in fact more powerful then the ps1, but was damn hard to work for due to its processors...

[manmonkee]

@dinizgames Take it from me, I've worked on the Saturn, The Saturn didn't do Polygons at all, youre watching deformed sprites, As for the Saturn being more powerful than the PS1, In terms of 3D power it was around a third as powerful. At the time of the first Formula 1 game on the PS1, that engine was doing around 3 times the amount of polys the Saturn was capable off. Sorry but thems just the Facts.

[dinizgames]

@manmonkee, correct me if im wrong but for what i know, the Saturn used quadrilaterals instead of triangles to do polygons, 10 triangles for the ps1 are about 5 squares for the Saturn, so i think it could keep up against the ps1,

Panzer Dragon Saga or the Shenmue Prototype, are a example, those give a good use to the quadrilaterals stuff, i think ps1 would hardly do something like Shenmue, but both are cool systems, i owned both back in the day, and good to meet someone who worked on the Saturn

[manmonkee]

@dinizgames Well you could put it that way but in practical terms, when actually making games in 95% of cases a vert is added to a triangle to make it a quad, so 10 tri's for the PS1 would work out as 10 quads for the saturn ( 100% for convertions), you could make parts of models use quads, But Quads are also a pain Z buffering wise ( polys overlap) . The PS1 at Max output is 3 times the Saturns power 3D wise, really :), At the time I owned a Saturn, not a PS1.

[lightdark28]

@manmonkee

what youre essentially saying is that unless a game is coded from the ground up (like a 1st party game) then it can compete.

however in a situation like this where its a port, its a big pain the backside to redo the game 100% and thus the game doesn't run as well as the original platform.

is that it? because thats generally the same across the board.

Grandia for instance was a Saturn original ported to the PS1, and the PS1 version has more slowdown/looks worse.

[manmonkee]

@manmonkee I confess I actually worked on this game, a royal pain this one, very complicated AI, the PS1 had a graphics processor so the AI could run on the CPU but the Saturn had to run the whole thing on it's CPU, to speed it up we took away the ground and replaced it with a SNES style Mode7 plain, No docs on it though so it didn't quite come out right, PS1 used 256 colour textures too, Saturn 16 colour, Yadda yadda, The PS1 quality was impossible for us on this.

[lightdark28]

@manmonkee

doesnt the VDP1 serve as the Saturn's graphics chip?

also as far as I know, the SCU DSP could potentially be used to do some geometry calculations, but apparently Sega's documentation on it was pretty poor, and so most games don't bother.

[manmonkee]

@lightdark28 Yeah that goes back to don't believe everything you read, there's not a magic bullet that'd suddenly make the Saturn good, It even had Hardware bugs. Theres that problem of 3D you just couldn't get past on the Saturn too, It was incapable, the 3D you see is 2D deformed sprites, In Debug mode you could pull back the view till you could see all the cars and track in the distance, Everything! and it went at 60 FPS, Because the sprites were now tiny, On the PS1 it's chug at about 10FPS

[lightdark28]

@manmonkee

Im aware of the Saturn basically running everything as a deformed sprite but what do you mean in debug mode?

also a question is what makes the Saturn better at 2D? is it just due to the extra RAM?.

finally how does one explain efforts on the Saturn by either Sega or some 3rd parties , which looked as good (or better in some cases) as PS1 games at the time? custom engines and specialised code?

[manmonkee]

@lightdark28 Debug mode is just the game in a raw form, you can move the camera around and use specialized functions in software, As for sprites, just designed to produce them on a hardware level, More Ram just means more frames, Lots of PS1 games mapped sprites onto Polys. As for some games looking better on the Saturn, It's just effort, Take Virtua Fighter 2, Tiny poly count compared to PS1, no Lighting, No Frills, just nice art, Tiny Poly count allowed High Rez. Looked Great

[lightdark28]

@manmonkee

I would also assume the Saturn's VDP2 helps with 2D ( multi layer backgrounds or mode 7 for free, while the PS1 would have to render it) quite interesting, because some people have tried telling me the PS1 could outdo the Saturn in 2D if both had the same amount of RAM/Saturn VDP2, I assume thats untrue? have you seen DOA ? what about that?, the Saturn version is less blocky (a bit) and arguably looks better?

(itagaki claimed the SAT used more polys on that game)

[teebeaubobo]

this has got to be one of the worst port ever :-( aliasing + ugly smokes

[massivewad]

The Saturn was never designed to run a game like this. Therefore, it's no surprise that the PS1 wins this hands down. If the two versions of Xmen vs SF were placed side by side, for example, then things would be reversed.

PS = designed for mid level Polygon processing

Saturn = designed for high level Sprite handling

At the time, Sony had marketed their consoles strengths to the masses more effectively. That made all the difference when it comes to how these consoles were perceived.

[A31Chris]

@massivewad actually in all of these vs videos when it comes to 3d on either system they seem so evenly matched that the differences are almost inconsequential unless you are some kind of elitist. The Saturn is very capable of and was indeed designed to run games like this or it wouldnt be doing it as well as we see in all these videos. If there is any major differences in this particular game it is no doubt due to developer screw up rather than hardware limitation.

[LewisLongshanks]

I still really liked Destruction Derby on Saturn despite being a crappy ass port.

[Monacomaverick]

The main problem with the Saturn in general was the lack of programmer knowledge about the hardware. It can output a higher resolution than the PS1 if the developers know how to code for it. This looks like it used the Saturn's lowest resolution. Psygnosis should have used the same mode 7 trick that Mass Destruction used since the tracks are entirely flat anyways. The frame rate would have been much better.

[SSJ2Killua]

I'm a Saturn fan, but this really is a terrible port. The frame rate seems sluggish, the pop up is awful and the dust effects are nasty. Bad job.

[Terramax]

It's a crime this was only 1 player. I mean, sure, the sequels were 2 player, but I always enjoyed the 1st game more.

Thanks for this comparison. You can easily see the pop up on the saturn version.

[mayday87]

OK. really. Im big fun of SEGA. and Was! But this vid remind me how better was psx than saturn... :(

[OldsXCool]

Playstation hands down. 

[AZULES88MU]

en saturn mas popping y unos efectos de humo muy inferiores

[EnrJaiZr]

saturn in general I think has better 2d while psx has better 3d for sure

saturn is jagged

[Sc0tsman33]

7psx 3sat

[GabeLaneG]

Oh, the nostalgia . . .

*has warm fuzzy feeling*

[tmMcHugh]

the smoke effect looks better and realistic on ps1

[nick25clark]

think the ps1 wins this one hands down..always remember the reviews were very poor for the saturn version,,,,i like it when huge chunks of background just dissappear at the start and there is so much pop up...i think the saturn could have handled this game but it was just a sloppy port.

[therealbluedragon]

If you notice at 2:10 on the Saturn, I drive straight through another car without hitting it & Since D-Derby is a game where you are suposed to hit other cars, that's a little bit messed up!

[karelpipa]

@therealbluedragon that kind of problem happens to me on DD2 for PSX too, i think its some polygon problem, but tire smoke on PSX is x times better here in DD1

[woahItsJimmy]

Ouch SS version has serious clipping/culling isues. Well , the 3d caps of SS are limited anyway....

[cuervorockero]

poligons vs sprites

sweet comparison..

thanks for upload this

saturn all the way