@TaqiyyaExposer The problem is that they're "suspected" terrorists. If there were a trial to determine guilt or innocence before interrogation it would be less of a problem. This is a real difficult question and we shouldn't just say "but they're bad" and move on. Do you have so much faith in bureaucracy that no one innocent has been accused of terrorism?
@TaqiyyaExposer I didn't get the haircut reference at first because I do have an appointment for a haircut today and I kept wondering how the hell you knew that!
Anyway, you're offbase and being silly. If you don't worry about the US committing acts of torture because if we didn't our enemies could somehow exploit that then you're not much of an American. Our government was founded on the idea that the collective good doesn't outweigh individual rights.
@TaqiyyaExposer I'm not taking a side in this argument; I'm just saying the question is a complex one as I'm sure Steyn would agree. You can't just say "they're terrorists so who cares?" because we already know the government has accused innocent people of terrorism. Nor can we say "let Osama have a trial" because that's stupidly restrictive of our military when it's fighting a war. Some kind of new apparatus is needed that balances our safety with human rights. right?
You're taking a side, a liberal, treasonous, pacifist and seditious side.
I am not much of an American, i am an Australian. But i am rather sure that any decent American would expect their military to be more concerned with national security than the well being of those they are employed to kill.
@TaqiyyaExposer I'm not on a side, and the fact that you think I am is the second example you've shown of being unable to grasp the idea of uncertainty. You cannot, reasonably, be certain of what I think. Nor can you be certain of whether a person in US custody is actually a terrorist or just accused of being one. The US army fights everywhere, when at its best, for natural rights (see the US Constitution). If we cared about national security more than rights, we wouldn't have liberated Iraq.
If the right wing hack was involved in the murder of 3000 people, then yes, the right wing hack should be waterboarded if we think the right wing hack has information and we have tried all other interrogation techniques. .
My friends waterbaorded me and its not bad at all, I agree with you it doesn't work. Therefore we should begin the more traditional forms of interrogation, like burning them and making small incisions all over their body.
@TaqiyyaExposer Torture doesn't work, you only get the information your victim thinks you want to hear, and that's often far from the truth. Oh, and you and Mark Steyn are a pair of lying pussy closets who'd soil their underpants if you got so much as a smack on the wrists. But when it comes to other people suffering, oh yeah, tough guy.
Oh so now torture doesn't work? How come the mafia torture people with effective results? Is it just a mafia anomaly? And you're right, I would soil myself if I got a slap on the wrist, because I am not a criminal and violence frightens me, as it should frighten you. So you would prefer to see the suffering of MANY innocent women and children rather than inflicting of pain on SOME violent, murderous men???
@TaqiyyaExposer "How come the mafia torture people with effective results?"
I'm talking about reality, you're talking about movies you've seen.
What did torture tell us? That Saddam had weapons of mass destruction!
Maybe when they get Osama Bin Laden's address I'll believe you. And see, in more civilised countries, you have to be found guilty in a court of law (after evidence has been produced) before being described as murderous. Not just being in the wrong place and looking swarthy.
LOL.. Yes, torture only works on movies... I dare say, if had a set of vice grips attached to your nose, you would tell me whatever i asked.. And who was tortured into talking about the WMD? You make shit up to suit yourself. You're simply a Muslim, using Jew lies to help your terrorist cause. I am sure that you do not complain about the Taliban torturing US POW. I hope you die.
@TaqiyyaExposer if I was being tortured, I'd tell the torturer anything he wanted to here. That is not the same thing as telling the truth and totally unreliable as evidence.
@howlingwooolf What a miserable idea: Torture is right and justified.That also was done to Jesus. That Is also what the Nazis did to CHILDREN in front of their parents? Do you know the history of central and south america death squads? Kill your TV programming and begin to look into yourself. Do you want powers to have the control over others to commit atrocities against the innocent? Either you will resist, or you will participate in the carnage. MI5 MI6 such gory glory...
4) The Geneva convention says that the only thing we are allowed to do is ask Name, Rank and serial number. No discomfort whatsoever. If that is okay with you, then so be it, but when KSM is telling our CIA that an attack is coming soon, it would have been criminal to not make them a little uncomfortable to try and get more information.
That may or may not be true. There are some who say it does not, and others who say that it can be effective if done correctly.
In the case of the three that were waterboarded, it was done after other techniques were tried again and again, and the only thing that KSM would say was I need a lawyer, and yes there will be an attack.
the Geneva Convention only applies to captured troops IN UNIFORM..anyone else is an enemy combatant not covered by the GC..during WW2..partisans..those on both side when captured without uniform were shot on site
1) Mark Steyn is referring to what happened at Guatanamo. Obviously, there were problems and Bagram and Abu Ghraib. The people involved have been prosecuted. But the problem with Bagram and Abu Ghraib is that the White House was NOT involved.
2) The US Army, as far as I know, was not involved in the the Gitmo interrogations.
3) The Gitmo prisoners were not part of the Geneva convention.
"Report probes US custody deaths" (BBC NEWS 21-02-2006 23:26 GMT): "Of the 98 deaths, at least 34 were suspected or confirmed homicides." "Command's Responsibility, a report on the 'war on terror'" (Financial Times 22-02-2006 19:09 GMT): "[There are] nearly 100 detainees who have died in US custody, including eight [8] who were tortured to death, since August 2002."
ojlavoie, "who died from waterboarding"? douchebag, no one dies from it, its a controlled form of training that, and this will suprise you, because you are misinforrmed, that several thousand Americans have gone through in SERE school.,, i've been through it, asshole, and so have many other others..look up Ft Benning sometime before you start mouthing off, it is still part of SEAL training and other special forces ,,shut the fuck up and look it up douchebag!
That's a crap argument. U can't compare SERE training to this. 1st, in SERE training you know exactly whats happening and its done by your own FRIENDLY trainers & u know they won't inflict damage on you. That's 100% different from being suffocated in a dark room by hostile strangers. 2nd, were u waterboarded 240 TIMES in a month, 6x per day as was done? 3 pro boxers get punched in the face so by ur logic its fine to have Mike Tyson let loose on prisoners since 1000s have done it in boxing?
100 prisoners died in U.S. custody and 35 of them are "suspected or confirmed" homicides. Waterboarding resulted in the death of detainees, some of whom are now known to be innocent. HILARIOUS.
Why do we treat terrorists as people? Do they treat us as people?
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
@TaqiyyaExposer The problem is that they're "suspected" terrorists. If there were a trial to determine guilt or innocence before interrogation it would be less of a problem. This is a real difficult question and we shouldn't just say "but they're bad" and move on. Do you have so much faith in bureaucracy that no one innocent has been accused of terrorism?
darwinkilledgod 1 year ago
@darwinkilledgod
Do you have so much faith in your country's enemies that you believe they would never exploit any weakness in its security?
Get a haircut and worry about the good guys for a change.
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
@TaqiyyaExposer I didn't get the haircut reference at first because I do have an appointment for a haircut today and I kept wondering how the hell you knew that!
Anyway, you're offbase and being silly. If you don't worry about the US committing acts of torture because if we didn't our enemies could somehow exploit that then you're not much of an American. Our government was founded on the idea that the collective good doesn't outweigh individual rights.
darwinkilledgod 1 year ago
@TaqiyyaExposer I'm not taking a side in this argument; I'm just saying the question is a complex one as I'm sure Steyn would agree. You can't just say "they're terrorists so who cares?" because we already know the government has accused innocent people of terrorism. Nor can we say "let Osama have a trial" because that's stupidly restrictive of our military when it's fighting a war. Some kind of new apparatus is needed that balances our safety with human rights. right?
darwinkilledgod 1 year ago
@darwinkilledgod
You're taking a side, a liberal, treasonous, pacifist and seditious side.
I am not much of an American, i am an Australian. But i am rather sure that any decent American would expect their military to be more concerned with national security than the well being of those they are employed to kill.
What rights exist in nature?
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
@TaqiyyaExposer I'm not on a side, and the fact that you think I am is the second example you've shown of being unable to grasp the idea of uncertainty. You cannot, reasonably, be certain of what I think. Nor can you be certain of whether a person in US custody is actually a terrorist or just accused of being one. The US army fights everywhere, when at its best, for natural rights (see the US Constitution). If we cared about national security more than rights, we wouldn't have liberated Iraq.
darwinkilledgod 1 year ago
@darwinkilledgod
Yeah good job liberating North Korea.... Stupid fucking liberal.
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
Man, listening to this guys is torture. Who the fuck he thinks he is?
mfat2000 1 year ago
so does sodium pentothal no longer work?
btw elect mark steyn president of earth
lbbutant 1 year ago
that demented laugh is creepy
ivangrozny27 1 year ago
I would do much worse than waterboarding to protect my family.
dmlauffer 2 years ago 14
Barney and Celine Dion XD
HIllarious!!!!
Brantinger 2 years ago
How many of these right-wing hacks have volunteered to be waterboarded? I think they should, to show how us all what a walk in the park it is.
howlingwooolf 2 years ago
If the right wing hack was involved in the murder of 3000 people, then yes, the right wing hack should be waterboarded if we think the right wing hack has information and we have tried all other interrogation techniques. .
tms5018 2 years ago
@howlingwooolf
My friends waterbaorded me and its not bad at all, I agree with you it doesn't work. Therefore we should begin the more traditional forms of interrogation, like burning them and making small incisions all over their body.
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
@TaqiyyaExposer Torture doesn't work, you only get the information your victim thinks you want to hear, and that's often far from the truth. Oh, and you and Mark Steyn are a pair of lying pussy closets who'd soil their underpants if you got so much as a smack on the wrists. But when it comes to other people suffering, oh yeah, tough guy.
howlingwooolf 1 year ago
@howlingwooolf
Oh so now torture doesn't work? How come the mafia torture people with effective results? Is it just a mafia anomaly? And you're right, I would soil myself if I got a slap on the wrist, because I am not a criminal and violence frightens me, as it should frighten you. So you would prefer to see the suffering of MANY innocent women and children rather than inflicting of pain on SOME violent, murderous men???
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
@TaqiyyaExposer "How come the mafia torture people with effective results?"
I'm talking about reality, you're talking about movies you've seen.
What did torture tell us? That Saddam had weapons of mass destruction!
Maybe when they get Osama Bin Laden's address I'll believe you. And see, in more civilised countries, you have to be found guilty in a court of law (after evidence has been produced) before being described as murderous. Not just being in the wrong place and looking swarthy.
howlingwooolf 1 year ago
@howlingwooolf
LOL.. Yes, torture only works on movies... I dare say, if had a set of vice grips attached to your nose, you would tell me whatever i asked.. And who was tortured into talking about the WMD? You make shit up to suit yourself. You're simply a Muslim, using Jew lies to help your terrorist cause. I am sure that you do not complain about the Taliban torturing US POW. I hope you die.
TaqiyyaExposer 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TaqiyyaExposer if I was being tortured, I'd tell the torturer anything he wanted to here. That is not the same thing as telling the truth and totally unreliable as evidence.
"You're simply a Muslim, using Jew lies"
Oh grow up ya silly wee boy.
howlingwooolf 1 year ago
@howlingwooolf What a miserable idea: Torture is right and justified.That also was done to Jesus. That Is also what the Nazis did to CHILDREN in front of their parents? Do you know the history of central and south america death squads? Kill your TV programming and begin to look into yourself. Do you want powers to have the control over others to commit atrocities against the innocent? Either you will resist, or you will participate in the carnage. MI5 MI6 such gory glory...
IsabellaVisconti911 1 year ago
follow the yellow brick road.. follow the yellow brick road.. whos behind the curtain.. its me mark
heal2012 2 years ago
Comment removed
heal2012 2 years ago
4) The Geneva convention says that the only thing we are allowed to do is ask Name, Rank and serial number. No discomfort whatsoever. If that is okay with you, then so be it, but when KSM is telling our CIA that an attack is coming soon, it would have been criminal to not make them a little uncomfortable to try and get more information.
tms5018 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Problem, it doesn't work.
howlingwooolf 2 years ago
That may or may not be true. There are some who say it does not, and others who say that it can be effective if done correctly.
In the case of the three that were waterboarded, it was done after other techniques were tried again and again, and the only thing that KSM would say was I need a lawyer, and yes there will be an attack.
tms5018 2 years ago
Says who?
vaxxon1 2 years ago
the Geneva Convention only applies to captured troops IN UNIFORM..anyone else is an enemy combatant not covered by the GC..during WW2..partisans..those on both side when captured without uniform were shot on site
chrycohauler 2 years ago
@tms5018
Against combatants.
Different rules for those that won't wear a uniform.
Besides, when the other side adhere to Geneva, I am happy to also.
OneBigRetard 1 year ago
1) Mark Steyn is referring to what happened at Guatanamo. Obviously, there were problems and Bagram and Abu Ghraib. The people involved have been prosecuted. But the problem with Bagram and Abu Ghraib is that the White House was NOT involved.
2) The US Army, as far as I know, was not involved in the the Gitmo interrogations.
3) The Gitmo prisoners were not part of the Geneva convention.
tms5018 2 years ago
ojlavoie 2 years ago
Oath of enlistment, U.S. Army:
"I, _, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies [...]."
Article VI, Constitution of the United States:
"(A)ll treaties made under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land."
(At least four [4] treaties obligate the U.S. to investigate and prosecute all acts of torture.)
Amendment VIII, U.S. Bill of Rights:
"Cruel and unusual punishments shall not be inflicted."
ojlavoie 2 years ago
ojlavoie, "who died from waterboarding"? douchebag, no one dies from it, its a controlled form of training that, and this will suprise you, because you are misinforrmed, that several thousand Americans have gone through in SERE school.,, i've been through it, asshole, and so have many other others..look up Ft Benning sometime before you start mouthing off, it is still part of SEAL training and other special forces ,,shut the fuck up and look it up douchebag!
roastbeefdinner 2 years ago
That's a crap argument. U can't compare SERE training to this. 1st, in SERE training you know exactly whats happening and its done by your own FRIENDLY trainers & u know they won't inflict damage on you. That's 100% different from being suffocated in a dark room by hostile strangers. 2nd, were u waterboarded 240 TIMES in a month, 6x per day as was done? 3 pro boxers get punched in the face so by ur logic its fine to have Mike Tyson let loose on prisoners since 1000s have done it in boxing?
forestskog 2 years ago
Steyn said pain was "off the table" during forced drowning, on which the U.S. prisoners who died from waterboarding might ask him to elaborate.
ojlavoie 2 years ago
if done correctly, it doen't kill you, obviously if you waterboard for long enough it will kill you
nzmft85 2 years ago
100 prisoners died in U.S. custody and 35 of them are "suspected or confirmed" homicides. Waterboarding resulted in the death of detainees, some of whom are now known to be innocent. HILARIOUS.
ojlavoie 2 years ago
Do you know how many have died at the hands of Islamofascists?
Steyn is on the money as always.
ulsterscot 2 years ago