Jesus Outside the Bible - Part 1

[godluvsmormons]

One amazing thing is that while they could kill Christians, and burn Bibles, the gospel message can not be lost, changed or corrupted.

[parasitesarefunny]

Jesus worshiped GOD, he was not GOD.

Dupes worship MEN.

Next you are going to say Jesus was a nasty so-called Jew. roflmao! Jesus had to stay away from these satanic sickos called Jews who were pretending to be Israelites (just like today). Jesus was killed by a mob of blood thirsty satanic Jews, just like the JEW Mass Media of today is bloodthirsty and spreads satanic Jew lies about other people and Nations.

[havenomouth]

Whe he talk like me 4 years old?

[Truthwillsetyoufri]

the truth comes by revelation of God words are word but when is Byn his revelation u then understand the bible, the difference between the one that belive and the ones that dont is theat the former have revelation and tha latter are doomed to be asleep

[kanakaken]

@Truthwillsetyoufri Horseradish

[Truthwillsetyoufri]

@kanakaken ye ye a

[kanakaken]

@Truthwillsetyoufri Has god given you lots of money yet? You seem to be making plenty of prayers in that direction. Your profile is 75% for money from god and the rest is to remove demons.

What have you been smoking?

[EXALTEDDIRT]

Excellent video, very informative!

[6Untitled9]

That piece by Tacitus was written over 100 hundred years after Christ, (ca. 116AD). What he says about the origins of Christianity was most likely referenced from Christian literature.

[bustermk2]

Nobody doubts that Christians existed ... they still do.

Just because Christians exist it doesn't necessarly mean Jesus lived. The Jesus myth was no doubt being spread far and wide at this point. I am also sure that like most legends the account of his life and reputation were being exagerated with every retelling of his story.

I am not sure whether or not Jesus existed. Certainly I doubt his claims that he was the sone of God.

What is needed is contemporary evidence from an unbiased source.

[miraclesinnature]

It may be that some of the gospels were named after the apostles, not written by them. it is said that theophilous wrote the book of Luke

[ninjamojo711]

Am I banned from making comments on your thread?

[ninjamojo711]

Your claims are bogus. Those names of historians you quote are not contemporary with the apparent life of Jesus. Josephus has been proven to be fraud.

The books of the bible cannot be considered historical. They are religious texts. The gospels are narratives that contradict each other. They are not eyewitness accounts, nor are they written as if they were. Most importantly Paul, never refers to a Jesus of Nazareth or his teachings and miracles. Jesus is a myth!

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 Replying to an old comment of yours.

FYI Ya this video is bullshit, but I thought you might want to know that I wasn't entirely convinced by the book "Jesus Neither God nor Man" It was extremely detailed and you'll learn a lot by reading it, but I found one spot extremely deceptive

Pg. 259 "The placement of Christ Chronologically" quoted 1Corinthians 15: 20-23 but it cut out verse 21. As a result I no longer trust the Jesus myth proponents.

But ya, the bible is still mythology.

[ninjamojo711]

@Samuria11 I question your sincerity, but Ok I'll bite. I'm not familiar with the book you mention.

I'm unsure why verse 21 would be left out because it doesn't prove Jesus of Nazareth existed.

"21Just as we will die because of Adam, we will be raised to life because of Christ." is what is it saying.

V.20: "Christ is raised among the dead". Big clue there..it's not an earthly event.

I'm not saying a prototype for a messiah figure wasn't a human, but Jesus of Nazareth of the gospels is Myth.

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 Umm, You quoted verse 22. I'll quote 21 exactly "For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being"

And I completely agree with your last line, that's most likely that's what happened.

[ninjamojo711]

@Samuria11 I did quote 21  as well, it's just a different translation, which I think is the real meaning.

Anyway, the verse is ambiguous.

Do you agree that Paul has no idea about a Jesus of Nazareth? I looked into the book you mentioned. I'm a fan of Doherty. I didn't realize he had a new book.

If you are bothered by his omission of verse 21, ask him about it on his website. He does respond. I will do the same.

cheers!

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 I just went through all the translations on Biblegateway and you definitely quoted 22 thinking it was 21.

This is the only verse I found that isn't accurately explained by the Doherty. This book is mostly just an expansion on "The Jesus Puzzle".

I agree that Paul probably didn't have any idea about a Jesus of Nazareth, it was probably a combination of Doherty's ideas along with an influential radical Rabbi of his time.

[ninjamojo711]

@Samuria11 Contemporary English Version: 21Just as we will die because of Adam, we will be raised to life because of Christ.

I like Doherty's work, but I do think he tends to stop short at the idea that a pre-existing Messiah figure (or figures) from the past were the prototypes for the character of the gospels. Does he expand on that in his new book?

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 You have to avoid all of the other translations to get that, I prefer to look at all of them and take a consensus approach, I'll give a translation like "Young's Literal Translation" more weight if it ends up being comprehensible. That being said it's pretty obvious how different translators have a bias toward a translation that more accurately reflects their own theological understanding (or lack thereof in our case of preferring the contemporary version in this instance)

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 Not yet, I'm only 2/3 through the book but it doesn't look like he's going to do that.

[ninjamojo711]

@Samuria11 I am of the the school of thought that the character of Jesus of Nazareth in the gospels is modelled after (midrash) Joshua the son on Nun, the deliverer of Israel, successor to Moses.

Joshua and Jesus are actually the same name. It's only the Latin form transliterated that makes the 2 names different. Jesus is essentially reincarnated (metaphorically and allegorically) from Joshua.

This is why Paul's Christ lives on a mystical realm. Joshua is long dead.

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 Ya, that makes pretty good sense. Or, maybe an influential teacher could have kick started the whole thing off. In the same style as how whenever a group predicts the end of the world, it doesn't happen and then they deny that their prediction didn't happen, saying that it all happened spiritually instead. I haven't studied enough in this area, all I know is that I didn't like Doherty's treatment of that particular verse.

[ninjamojo711]

@Samuria11 There is good research that suggests the Essenes' Teacher of Righteousness in the Dead Sea Scrolls (which pre-dates the gospels) is Joshua and served as a prototype for the gospel character. It even goes back further with roots in Egypt, with Akhenaten and Tutankamen being the prototypes for Moses and Joshua. Essa is Arabic form of Joshua/Jesus. Essenes were followers of Joshua, out of Egypt.

It's fascinating stuff.

[Samuria11]

@ninjamojo711 Awesome Thx!

[scoobynaye1995]

@ninjamojo711 who my dear friend told u that josephus is fraud! were u there or in any book is it given

[ninjamojo711]

@scoobynaye1995 Most historical/biblical scholars, both Christian and secular admit that the passage about Jesus in Josephus is blatant forgery. Josephus was Jewish Roman historian and he died that way (Jewish).

To claim as it states in the fraudulent passage that Jesus was the Messiah would have been blasphemy for Josephus.

If one looks at the context around the passage, any one can tell it's inserted by a believer and resembles a creed.

It was most likely done by Eusebios, a known fraud!

[scoobynaye1995]

@ninjamojo711 thanks but i still believe in jesus! if u dont then watch the miracle of eucharist turning into flesh

[miraclesinnature]

@ninjamojo711 The books can be seen as historical and as religous.The important thing is to get the point; not condem it. It will only assist the journey of knowing God for yourself and realizing more about your own nature. God loves you more than you love you. Paul does refer to Christ Jesus in the 1st chapter of 1st corentheans. take the time to hear the teachings. ...for wisdom read proverbs

[ninjamojo711]

@miraclesinnature Yes, I know Paul refers to Christ Jesus. Paul's Christ lives on a mystical plain, not some who was just on earth from Nazareth.

No where does Paul refer to the earthly Jesus of Nazareth as described in the gospels. He knows of no such being. No miracles, no Mary, virgin birth, no parables, stories, teachings from sermon on the mount...nothing!

The gospels are mythical development after Paul's letters. Jesus is a myth!

[Truthwillsetyoufri]

@ninjamojo711 u`re an antichrist i see

[ninjamojo711]

@Truthwillsetyoufri perhaps I am.

[PureAirSolutions]

@ninjamojo711 You are no rhodes scholar. What you said is not true in any way. All you reveal is your complete ignorance on all counts.

[ninjamojo711]

@PureAirSolutions It doesn't take a "rhodes" scholar nor a rocket scientist to see that Christianity is just another Pagan religion. Dare to research beyond the doctrine and dogma of your church.

[godluvsmormons]

@ninjamojo711 The doctrine and dogma as you put it is the Bible, and that is where we must make our stand. We can't make our stand on the actions of people claiming to be Christians, or on their religious practices or doctrines. Anyone can claim to be anything, yet if they claim to be a Christian, but teach or practice things that Jesus forbade specifically, they are not Christians. Pagans believed in multiple gods, Jesus taught only one. Pagans believe in many paths to God, Jesus only one.

[ninjamojo711]

@godluvsmormons Yes, you are part right. "Pagans believed in multiple gods". Jesus is just one of them. Jesus is a Roman concoction, a synthesis to control the masses.

Jesus is a myth, just like the rest of the gods in the mix.

[PureAirSolutions]

@ninjamojo711 If your statements not the epitome of ignorance, I do not know what is. Just the opposite is true on all accounts.

[ninjamojo711]

@PureAirSolutions Prove me wrong then.

[jbass02]

This issue is not whether a rabbi named Jesus existed. Rather, it's the current fact that not a single historian, philosopher, scribe, "witness", or follower documented anything whatsoever about Jesus until decades after his death. Plus, no one who wrote about Jesus claims to have met him. Given this level of hearsay it's impossible to know what Jesus said much less know anything about the divinity claims.

[viper8red]

Funny how you never get non-religious, non-bias people claiming evidence of a historical jesus. This is because there is only poor heresay at best. The rest is all hinging on faith.

[detroitthebaptist]

Jude14-15 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam. prophesied about these men saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgement on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the ungodly things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him" These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lust; they mouth great swelling words.. wow! Jesus the Christ 2000 yrs ago

[purbrookian]

Jesus was almost certainly an almalgam, a composite of the dozens of peripatetic preacher-beggars wandering that place at that time, just like Arthur, Alfred, WilliamTell, and Robin Hood.

[ivlfounder]

@purbrookian

That's not what Tacitus said.

[Gregvnielsen]

You forgot one of the primary texts. The Book of Mormon.

[tulipsontheorgan]

Why didn't Jesus write anything?



[superbobby324]

@tulipsontheorgan I believe it's because he came here not to write evidence of his being, but to die for us and teach us his ways, and God's ways. If he were to write first hand accounts and his own manuscripts than it would be too easy for people to know he's real and the use of our own faith, understanding, and confidence would over powered by the evidence, and that's not what God wants.

[tulipsontheorgan]

@superbobby324

I know, your god wants to play these silly games. There is suffering all around the world and your god's brilliant idea is to do a human sacrifice? Wait, that is what ancient peoples did? Could it be that humans made this bible stuff up? could it be? human sacrifice- that's god's big plan? and then be mysterious about it? look at the conditions of this planet and the people on it. now god wants to be invisible, no proof, no help, nothing? as if he wasn't there.

[superbobby324]

@tulipsontheorgan My God is raising people to spread his love and word, and to bring hope to the suffering and death in the world. It's only "mysterious" when instead of looking for him, you're making claims to try to prove us wrong. Everything is mysterious if you've never done it or tried it.

And how can you look to the death and suffering around the world, when you can't see the suffering in the people you surround yourself with every day. If accusing us and my God of not doing anything..

[superbobby324]

@tulipsontheorgan than why don't you get off your computer and make a difference?

[LittoMoonLight]

People fail to see the gospel writers never met Jesus face to face.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Randall makes nice use of the tried-and-true yet very lazy & cliche logical fallacy of an appeal to authority when he mentions multiple times that he is a lawyer. Really? Who cares?  How about letting the strength of your argument stand on the merits of the evidence & logic you put forth? Now that's a novel idea isn't it!?!?

[superbobby324]

@LetReasonPrevail1 well he is putting forward good evidence and historical accounts, but i think he metions that he is a lawyer because than we know he knows what he's talking about when it comes to evidence, so he's not just some random guy with a camera

[Killjeser]

Lol, NO ONE can be exactly sure who wrote what, What we DO know is that moses did not write the first five books of the bible for how can he write of his own death and where he was burried. How can he say 2 animals of each for Noah's arc and a little later seven pairs yada yada yada.

Many authors wrote the bible. Each with their diffrent views and interpretations. Was jesus Real? Probably. Did he walk on water n stuff. Not so prbably.

[Scanini]

This is just lies, we dont have any historical records of contempory evidence for jesus, the gospels were not written by the disiples, these followers were almost certainly illiterate being fishermen etc.

The first boook we have is from paul who wrote 70 years after jesus died, hearsay is not good enough evidence for the claims of the suspension of the natural laws, weak is weak.

[Scanini]

Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence, the evidence you have for the divinity of a human being is shockingly frail.

Your asking rational and logical people to believe someone walked on water and came back form the dead, these claims require massive and demonstrable data, as yet im still waiting to see this, your bible is woefully short of being proof.

Science is closing the gaps your superbeing can hide in, the world will be a safer place without your bullshit.

Peace.

[shadowsoldier492]

They were fisherman but at the same time, they were scholars. They knew how to read and write.

[Scanini]

lol, source?

Go study your own theology, the gospels were not written by the disiples, they were written down decades after jesus died by people within the church organization.

This is not in question. To call a bronze age fisherman a scholar is assinine,

Google "who wrote the gospels"

[shadowsoldier492]

You know, Matthew, the writer of the first testimony (the book of matthew), was a tax collector? Surely, he had to be able to read and write, being a tax collector.

[Scanini]

Its not me telling you the gospels were not written by the disples, dont take my word for it.

Theologens (theists that study the bible) tell us that they didnt, that it is hearsay and transcripture, dont take my word for it do some research.

Dont shoot the messenger, im relaying what research i have done from your own theologens, The gospel of Mark is almost certainly a forgery as it has been linked with the book of acts, please go look it up and dont reject what im saying out of ignorance

[6sully8391]

hmm. no. the scriptures survive because constantine forced everyone to convert to christianity, and you mustn't forget the barbarian Cortes and his army who slaughtered the native american tribes in mesoamerica.

[Pablo113]

What about Jim Jones, should we take him as the Christ? He died along with his followers? Maybe someone will write some shit about him 100 years from now and claim him as the Christus!

[carpentersdaughter2]

The difference between Christ and Jim Jones is that Jim Jones killed many people in his name, and while Christ died for many to be redeemed. A true follower of Christ does not kill. I don't care if they say they are Christian, if they kill another human being like Jones did, then he was not a Christian but a man with a huge ego who wanted to be a god.

[Pablo113]

Jesus said, "I come not to bring Peace, but a SWORD" And HE SURE DID. Millions of poeple all over the world have been killed in his name! Including the Native American Indians and the Victims of the WITCH BURNING in Europe in the 1600's! THANKS JESUS!!! U ROCK!

[carpentersdaughter2]

The Sword as you say is not a real sword but the Word of God. At least get it right, Jesus never meant what you said.

[carpentersdaughter2]

Darwins theorly is practically been thrown out by reputable scientist. It's funny that you bring up a dead man who's works have been mostly disproven..

[Pablo113]

Darwins theory of Evolution is as true as the theory of GRAVITY is TRUE!

IF JESUS WAS GOD, he woulda know that DARWIN was gonna write the "ORIGINS of the SPECIES", and KILL JESUS!????

[carpentersdaughter2]

So you say Darwins theory of Evolution is true...lol...says you..

Darwin hasn't killed Jesus, if he had there would be no Chrstians on this earth. Please be more accurate in what you say, it doesn't make you look that good.

[rangerider79]

lets see some sources for that bold statement.

[carpentersdaughter2]

What statement, that Darwinism hasn't killed Jesus?

[rangerider79]

That Darwins theory has practically been thown out. Far as I know the evidence is only getting stronger and more refined.

But I a interested to see your sources, Im sure your not a liar.

[carpentersdaughter2]

The sources I have gone too are some of the ones mentioned in this video.

I know that atheists say that these sources aren't correct, but so far, that hasn't been proven.

The purpose was to show that Jesus did exsist. Nothing is these writings confirm that He was the Son of God, but only that he did live as was written in the gospels.

[rangerider79]

I already clarrified that I wanted sources on the Darwin comments and the scientists who have thrown out his theory.

And Tacitus has been refuted over and over again but Christians keep using it as proof, why because Christians dont check both sides of the story. As soon as one apologist tells them they have proof they stop looking.

[carpentersdaughter2]

I'm sorry. Been talking to so many atheists today that my head is spinning.

Sir John Herschel, , astronomer and Fellow of the Royal Society.

physicist James Clerk Maxwell strenuously opposed Darwinism

William Whewell, author of the classic The History of Inductive Sciences, wouldnt even let Darwins book into the Cambridge library.

There were scientist of Darwins day

Then

Louis Agassiz, the founder of modern glacial geology, and Louis Pasteur

[rangerider79]

No problem.

This is not the answer I thought I was going to get. I was thinking more along the lines of scientist using todays technology. When you find that answer, we can debate it.

[MikeWhiskyTango]

@carpentersdaughter2 Yeah lets just change words and certain bits that are obviously stupid and nonsensical and mythology based and ... yeah lets just call those bits metaphorical or allegorical. Wait...why not just say the entire bible text is an allegory from genesis onwards!!

[carpentersdaughter2]

@MikeWhiskyTango You've already said it, so why repeat it? It's just your opinion and that means nothing at all.

[MikeWhiskyTango]

@carpentersdaughter2 What are you telling me Ive repeated????

What makes you opinion worth more than nothing....?

[Pablo113]

Ur infected with Christ-psychosis. You belive in resurrected JEWISH ZOMBIES.

[carpentersdaughter2]

So, what if I do. Enee-meenie-mynee-moo...call me all the names you wish but it doesn't take away the fact that evolution is dying out. Just look at the recent polls.

[Pablo113]

You were infected by your parents and you will go on to infect your children! Do some research on you tube about Jesus, look up Calpurnpiso, Darkmatter 2525, profmyth, Nonstampcollector, Skeptic Bible Study... and free yourself from your ignorance.

[carpentersdaughter2]

So far all you are able to do to try and prove your point is to call me names. It looks like you are unable to defend your position very well.

[Pablo113]

Ur a delusional Theotard, you worship a COMIC BOOK CHARACTER! CONGRATS!

[carpentersdaughter2]

You prove my point very well.

[apologeticsman]

so, if I kill millions in YOUR name, are you to blame?

[Pablo113]

Yes, I am to blame! Just like the Germans killed in the name of Hitler.

[mikeqqqttt]

this guy is delusional, he reads from a book and calls it evidence

[Riste1986]

Bible is not JUST A BOOK. There lays your history and your future that you don't know anything about. You believe in book for example Darwin and his evolution or about meteors destroying the world and you think that,a book from a single man is true but The Bible written by many holly people is JUST A BOOK. I think you got wrong calculation, friend.

[carpentersdaughter2]

These other historical books show that the man named Jesus did exsist. Maybe we should toss out Darwin's books because it's in the past.

[edinburghskeptics]

You're a lawyer? Then you should know perjury is a crime. Nero did not torch Rome, he wasn't even there when he fire started.

You also mention the same old debunked sources. The best source you have for Christ existing is the Tacitus quote, which is a little dodgy and the actual reference to execution is one single line. This could more likely be bad reporting of an insignificant cult than a massive corroborating piece of evidence.

[edinburghskeptics]

Also your Tacitus quote is not right. Its embellished.

[carpentersdaughter2]

I suppose if Tacitus wrote about evolution and how God doesn't exsist you would be the first to praise the man.

why is it that when ever there is evidence that shows Jesus exsists, you guys want to say it's all a lie or doesn't exsist.

to say that thousands of people went to their death for a man that never existed is illogical.

[rangerider79]

Tacitus is pretty weak evidence, if you can even call it that.

[reflect7]

Actually, it's not hearsay if it's coming from eyewitness sources. Also, if an historian such as Tacitus or Josephus is collecting evidence from eyewitnesses and recording/sharing it later, again, that's evidence that can be delivered in a court of law without violating the hearsay rules -- Thanks for the note.

[0soToro]

Just as the bible contradicts itself, so do you.

[ninjamojo711]

@reflect7 The Josephus passage is proven fraud. Tacitus is so far removed by place and time and clearly does not refer to a human Jesus of Nazareth, only followers of "Christos". This is only proves christians exist. No Shit Sherlock!

[Backstabbingliar]

As a "Lawyer", you, of all people, should realize that to prove the existence of Jesus through accounts written 40, 50 or 60 years after his death are considered hearsay.

Can we just consider it "Faith". Because there is no "Historical" Fact of Jesus, Christianity relies on faith.

[apologeticsman]

It is no more hearsay than it is hearsay to use ancient historical documents to prove the existence of Homer, Hannibal or Socrates, it is just that when we are speaking about Jesus, people NEED to believe He never existed to continue in their sin and darkness.

[carpentersdaughter2]

Amen to that apologeticsman.

[atlant80]

Okay, so you are saying that the Tassidus is saying that Christians existed who believed that their savior, Christ, and Christ is not a name, but a title, meaning "anointed one" existed. So? Scientologists exist, and they believe in Xenu. That doesn't mean Xenu exists.

Also, Tacitus might not be refering to christians. Check here: infidels . org/library/modern/eric_laupot­/nazoreans.html

[TruthSurge]

And all of your info on Jesus comes from... the GOSPELS! Even the secular mentions of Jesus (there really is only one referring to the leader of the movement and not Jesus by name) are either much too late to be worth anything as they only repeat the Christian story from Christians or they do not mention Jesus but only Christianity.

[rilling99]

i dont know if you are a christain i am and i get it but i am only 12 it is hard to beleive that people 20 and 30 and 40 years old dont get it my opion is that you have to beleive in god to understand him

[kreeper887]

he probably didn't exist.

[wdsa8d]

wat do u mean he didn't exist? there's countless historical evidence of his existence. if a textbook said Julius Caesar existed u believe it but if Jesus came up u suddenly don't? wat makes this guy so different to other historical figures?

[MasterofFace]

We have physical evidence that Caesar existed, no prove for Jesus. Everyone got crucified back then, so that doesn't prove anything.

[rilling99]

he did theres broken tablets that people found with the desiples names on them mount

[tghetto5]

Jesus may have existed, I just dont believe he was God...

[Philos2006]

bigwhammy: What does that prove ? Everybody knows there were christians in Rome. Does that prove the salvation story ??

[Dudex58]

It proves Jesus existed,and after they were follwoing him and Christians were being persecuted, and done the same way.Or that one of the people he crucified was Jesus.

[Philos2006]

Dudex58: No it doesn`t. It proves the existence of christian jews. How could Suetonius, being born 70 years later confirm that the christian faith was founded by Christ ? Hearsay !!!! Nothing else.

[bigwhammyRocks]

GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 - 130 A.D.) served as a court official under Hadrian and as an annalist for the Imperial House. Suetonius records the expulsion of the Christian Jews from Rome (mentioned in Acts 18:2) and confirms the Christian faith being founded by Christ.

"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from

Rome." Life of Claudius 25.4

[stevendrake01]

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Great vid. Your talents (Matthew 14-30) are well spent bro.

[Truerutz]

God Bless bro!!

[biggbaddjohn]

No one will be able to stand before God Almighty and give a lame lack of evidence excuse. It's written in the night sky, in our cells, in our conscience, in secular history, and even in the Chinese language to name a few... You really have to plug your ears and shut your eyes tight to claim there is no evidence for the historicity of Jesus

Thanks again for brilliant research and rhetoric Randall !!!

[stevendrake01]

Exactly...

[MrHiberto]

in chinese language too? i want to read this stuff

[biggbaddjohn]

watch?v=6kf5JII6sIQ

watch the end of the vid 22:35 forward, google "God's Promise to the Chinese" (in quotes) and check your youtube mail for another link

Nice 2 meet u MrH

[RobDZeppelin]

@biggbaddjohn exactly..no evidence for god. so now that means i just have to trick myself into believing god. yay!!!!!!....