Sound reinforcement: How to reduce feedback roar in the stage monitors using a graphic equalizer

[nyaudioengineer]

Graphs should be used to correct the overall sound relationship of the wedge to the room (stage). Too honkey? Fix it with graphs. You should be able to play your favorite song throuh the wedge and have it sound good. If you hack graphs for feedback supression, the wedge will sound wrong.

[ORayDizzyO]

@nyaudioengineer I agree with your way of thinking. However, depending on the set up of the band, if there are a large amount of vocals or acoustic instruments contributing to problematic feedback, wouldn't it be smarter to use the GEQ to take out feedback overall, other than going into each and every channel and fixing it?

[nyaudioengineer]

My major gripe is when graphs are used to fix feedback issues for lets say a lead vocal, it messes up the sound of everything else in that mix. What are the most common sources of feedback? Vocal Mics, Acoustic Instruments (insert your source here). Why hack up a good sounding wedge just to tame a few sources?

[lavyheed]

@nyaudioengineer exactly pal....fix the problem at the source before resorting to drastic cuts on graphics.....

[nyaudioengineer]

@AntiPirateSquad, Yes I stated this and agree! I was talking about using a dedicated monitor console in one post as well as todays mixer technology where you can use one digital console with a layer for FOH and a layer for MON thus giving you seperate eq for each side using one console.. sure parametric eq is old tech but now it has come a long way esp. in the digital relm where you have full control with dynamics on every channel.

[srenjiaxuan]

This only gets rid of the ring from the kick.. Good start though...

I thought the easiest way would be to use an RTA to find ringing freq. I hate it when I have to guess which of the 31 frequencies are ringing... An RTA would instantly show you the 2-3 frequencies that are ringing.

[broocksba]

What the fuck? I can't get anything from you two bitches arguing. I defeats the purpose of your post. So do you use your EQ for ringing out only or do you use it to change the sound of the pa like your channel EQ's (british)? Will the Driverack PA+ RTA be the solution to your needs for my PA which has 4 CVP-2153's and 2 AB-36C's. I am soliciting your expert opinion because you are masters of your craft.

[nyaudioengineer]

BTW.. pre-fader does not always mean pre-eq. Check with your console.

[nyaudioengineer]

A little tip for use with a digital console doing monitors from FOH. I'll use a Yamaha LS9 or PM5D for example. You can setup channels 1-32 (LS9) or 1-24(PM5D) as your FOH MIX, then you can make the same inputs duplicated on channels 33-64 (LS9) or 25-48 (PM5D) for your Monitor Mix's so the channel EQ's for FOH does not effect the Monitors and vice versa. You do not assign the duplicated channels to the LCR, this way you can mix monitors from FOH pre or post fader. Remember digital has recall.

[nyaudioengineer]

Stevenmcnair, I too was skeptical about using mostly channel eq for feedback, I learned this from a top professional. Send pink noise to your wedge, use your ears or RTA and adjust your amps so the highs and lows are in the same range, not ruler flat. Listen to your wedges and make adjustments with your graphs to taste. If your using anything pro level (D&B M2 or M4, L'ACOUSTICS 112XT or HI-Q, JBL VRX, NEXO.. etc) you will find that you can leave your graphs flat. Ring out using channel eq.

[nyaudioengineer]

MrTwostone, For the record, I am not a week end warrior. I am a touring monitor engineer and I make my living doing sound. I don't think you understand that I was talking about a setup that includes a dedicated monitor console, also.. If you hook up a 31 band eq in between your mixer and power amp, you will not be able to hear the graph eq in your cans at FOH when you CUE (solo) the aux send.

[nyaudioengineer]

I know the reality is that most cheap mixers in your local dive wont have inserts on the AUX's, but if the mixer does, it's best to insert the graphs into the aux's.

[MrTwostone]

That's the dumbest shit I ever heard? Guess pre-fade aux sends never occurred to you did it?

if it a pre-fade aux send like most live sound mixer on the market good luck cutting those FB frequencies on that channel strip. (lol)

Please excuse the idiots that post such dumb shit, and for the record this video is spot on your best line of defense for killing FB on the monitor wedges is a 31 band eq in between your mixer and power amp.

[MrTwostone]

@MrTwostone

I was replying to nyaudioenginner I have no qualms calling the guy stupid he should know freaking better that 99% of week end warriors use a pre-fade aus send.

[stevenmcnair1897]

+ anyone watching this video for information is NOT the kind of person using separate monitor and Mix consoles. If you are speaking of Using the strip on the Monitor Mixer, then Yes It might be work sometimes. even then I'd use a Rack EQ probably.

[nyaudioengineer]

I do no agree with this method. By cutting the frequency at the specific monitor graphic EQ, you have now changed the sound of EVERYTHING in that monitor. With todays mixer technology, the parametric CHANNEL eq can be far more effective. If the kick drum was feeding back into the drum monitor at 100hz, it would be far more effective to use the kick drum channel eq to cut 100hz, thus eliminating the feedback while maintaining the sound of all the other instruments in drummers mix.

[rfmedia2]

@nyaudioengineer

We designed this and other videos to help beginning sound engineers. They will likely not have the luxury of an individual monitor console with mic splitters, etc.

Most of the time they are sending one or more pre-fader aux. mixes to the monitors. This prevents individual EQ control on each channel.

[stevenmcnair1897]

Sorry- I don't want to call you stupid but I do sound for a living, and while your method may work in some occasions, Tuning the monitor is more effective. Your way using the strip, you are changing the tone the audience hears. I will mix the Band for Good sound from the mix position. If I start EQing channels at the desk to eliminate FB in the monitors it could seriously mess up the tones in the main mix. 2nd, without a digital or Huge mixer, maybe you wont have an extra band or a small Q.

[AntiPirateSquad]

@nyaudioengineer Yes, perhaps if one has a on stage engineer with a separate console! Otherwise it'd be a preposterous idea to EQ the trouble frequencies out of the kick channel as this would affect the front of house where the trouble frequencies (monitor based) might not be an issue! If there's a monitor set up that's got a peak somewhere then it's best 'reduced' to flatten it out and get it back to 'normal'. Wouldn't you agree in hindsight?

[AntiPirateSquad]

@nyaudioengineer ps.... Parametric EQ was invented over forty years ago .... that's not really 'today's' mixer technology forte.

[ORayDizzyO]

@AntiPirateSquad If you ever use analog mixing consoles, which is held in most simple venues, you will find parametric eqs being used. And most engineers, TRAINED engineers prefer parametric controls to a GEQ. Simply because it's organized to four separate sweepable bands. Parametric eqs are still being used today, everywhere.

[TheDubstepDrummer]

@ORayDizzyO Sorry, you missed my point, I wasn't saying parametric is 'old hat' ...indeed it's of course widely used... but it's no 'new discovery' .

Quote: "most engineers, TRAINED engineers prefer parametric controls to a GEQ."

Sorry mate, that's just a silly generalisation, I don't know where you were 'TRAINED' as you put it .. but Parametric and GEQ serve different jobs when it comes to sound reinforcement; and yes, you use GEQ for removing unwanted frequencies, and PMEQ for channel EQ.

[TheDubstepDrummer]

@TheDubstepDrummer ....cont... The most common configuration would be GEQ for removing unwanted frequencies from monitor wedges and FOH ... unless you're insistent on having an adjustable Q maybe?

Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps these days absolutely everything is EQ'ed using parametric EQ's .. I would have thought that'd be quite fussy in a rack, each module for one of 20 monitors... much easier to have a nice uniform stereo GEQ x 10 and use a side per wedge, just quicker in my humble onion :-)

[AntiPirateSquad]

@ORayDizzyO

You don't EQ the channels to accommodate monitor roar / feedback .... you'd be changing the way it all sounds front of house... why would you want to go and do that?

You use EQ on the monitors that appear to have feedback problems and very simply with a straight forward EQ such as above, say 32 / 64 band would be ideal, per monitor ... and leave the channel strip eq on you desk to do the job of FOH.

That's the norm, unless you have a separate on stage mix that is.