Thanks for putting this up, TheCite. I was looking for it in free ebook form, but can't seem to find it. Maybe I'll borrow it from somewhere, scan and upload it myself. Francione's work needs more visibility.
say everyone in the world becomes vegan, how do you feed everone, mass farming destory everything to make way for teh farms, billion of humans there would have to 100% increase in farm land an there would be no room for animals, good job.
@angrylee1 I think you've confused animal agriculture with plant farming. In order to produce flesh and animal products, you need to feed the animals exponential amounts of plants. A cow for example eats 12 times its body weight in plants. 90% of the corn and soya produced in the US goes to feeding cows and other farm animals. You need 20 times more land in order to a feed a meat eater than you do for a vegan. If everyone became a vegan, we would be using exponentially less crops and land.
Unnecessary desires of humans? Again, your opinion, you don't eat meat, most do.. You want the whole world to change to your views? Not going to happen.. Animals are food, always have been, always will be..You don't support it? fine.. I will support them being food.. Wild game is healthy and good for you.. Save your false lecture on how bad it is..
Well that's good for you Stan. If all you wanted to do is state your opinion rather than commenting on the ethical or scientific arguments put forward in this video, I'm not sure why you even bothered. A hunter wants to eat meat. I'm surprised. I'm starting to wonder whether you even watched the video. I'm guessing not.
Hence the term, agree to disagree.. You are a child with your hands over your ears, will not listen to any other comments on this anyway.. Your mind is made up, everyone is wrong you are right.. Be sure to be the victim in this remark as well.. You can't even accept the omnivore because it undermines your pathetic stance.. Have a nice day..
When it comes to the unjustified slaughter and exploitation of sentient beings, there will be no compromise. If I'm so ignorant, then please, go ahead and argue one of the points in these videos. And please, tell me when I ever denied that the modern day human is an omnivore. 'Omnivore' or not, humans have no biological requirement to consume meat or animal products, and it is in fact healthier for us not to.
Forgive me cite... Sometimes I have a very short fuse when it comes to vegans.. I just find it unacceptable that vegans cannot grasp the concept of agree to disagree when it comes to diet choices for one. We are omnivore, that is fact. Instead of moving on with differences, you take the moral highhorse, at the same time would stoop to changing everyone to fit your take on life? What in your mind makes you so very special? And not very demented?
If you have a short fuse, then why not try constructively rebutting the points in these 3 videos, rather than giving me pointless mantras such as "We are omnivore", and other pathetic ad-hominems.
Vegans are a funny little lot aren't they? Now we can't have pets? lol... Cite...You and your opinions are just that..opinions.. Go vegan if you wish... But the rest of the world knows we are omnivore.. You idiots actually think you will sway our own personal free choice of diet? Get over your silly self.. Go adopt another dog..
The difference between humans and nonhumans is simple. Only humans ask themselves the "why" and the "how" of there presence on this planet as you do now. Also science has no explanation for humans"consciousness"about the "how" and the"why"humans are really conscious.Are animals conscious?
Whether an animal is smart enough to ask itself something as abstract as 'why am I here on Earth' is of no relevance. They understand the earth they live in, and that is all that is necessary for them. Look at your dog and tell me whether you think he's conscious or not. I think the answer speaks for itself.
Is it not you who don't want other humans to have dogs?Seems pretty obvious in your comments you are against humans owning any animal.A dog is a creation of humans,humans have breed dogs for centuries changing there physical appearence and also there caracter.You know that human cats have 1/3 brain less then there wild conterpart?Humans have taking the animals who where the easiest to handle and the more docile and breed those.A dog is consciousness?Very funny.
I personally support everyone adopting animals from shelters, as millions of animals lose their lives in shelters due to human greed and carelessness. I oppose the breeding of animals for pets, as it is just another form of exploitation. Many, if not most, pets endure some form of abuse or mistreatment in their lives, and the owner always has the final say on the treatment of the animal. "Pet" ownership further concretes the notion that animals are property and things, which is inherently wrong
Thank you to show us what a real danger you people are to democracy and to our individual freedom of choice including people who have pet animals.A lot of old people find those animals there only joy in life as they are alone.But you don't care about humans,don't you.
If we accepted that animals have inherent moral value, then we cannot justify breeding them for pets, just as we can't justify breeding them for food. Yeah, yeah, animal rights is a 'threat to democracy', because it puts the moral interests of animals over the unnecessary desires of humans.
"Whether an animal is smart enough to ask itself something as abstract as 'why am I here on Earth' is of no relevance"No relevance?That is what makes a human and how we act on this planet.Tell me,in what act is a dog conscious? A dog like any animal works on instincts or in his case pack philoshopy like wolves.You think a dog asks himself why he is on this planet?
In the philosophy of consciousness,"sentience"can refer to the ability of any entity to have subjective perceptual experiences,or "qualia".This is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness,such as creativity, intelligence,sapience,self-awareness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something).Sentience is a minimalistic way of defining 'consciousness'.Here you have your answer.
Exactly. Consciousness does not equal human intelligence. If asking oneself abstract questions such as "Why am I here", then apparently the mentally disabled who cannot comprehend such concepts are 'not conscious'.
"This is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness,such as creativity, intelligence,sapience,self-awa reness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something.
Sentience is a minimalistic way of defining 'consciousness'
That is what is written in the text ,not your own integrist tought's about philosophy.What do you have against mentally disabled humans,you think they are anilmals?
Thanks for putting this up, TheCite. I was looking for it in free ebook form, but can't seem to find it. Maybe I'll borrow it from somewhere, scan and upload it myself. Francione's work needs more visibility.
navidsonpuzzle 1 year ago
say everyone in the world becomes vegan, how do you feed everone, mass farming destory everything to make way for teh farms, billion of humans there would have to 100% increase in farm land an there would be no room for animals, good job.
angrylee1 1 year ago
@angrylee1 I think you've confused animal agriculture with plant farming. In order to produce flesh and animal products, you need to feed the animals exponential amounts of plants. A cow for example eats 12 times its body weight in plants. 90% of the corn and soya produced in the US goes to feeding cows and other farm animals. You need 20 times more land in order to a feed a meat eater than you do for a vegan. If everyone became a vegan, we would be using exponentially less crops and land.
TheCite 1 year ago
Just opinion?
You think pedophiles, cannibals, rapists and murderers are wrong? Its just your opinion then.
2481632641 2 years ago
Unnecessary desires of humans? Again, your opinion, you don't eat meat, most do.. You want the whole world to change to your views? Not going to happen.. Animals are food, always have been, always will be..You don't support it? fine.. I will support them being food.. Wild game is healthy and good for you.. Save your false lecture on how bad it is..
1957stan 2 years ago
Well that's good for you Stan. If all you wanted to do is state your opinion rather than commenting on the ethical or scientific arguments put forward in this video, I'm not sure why you even bothered. A hunter wants to eat meat. I'm surprised. I'm starting to wonder whether you even watched the video. I'm guessing not.
TheCite 2 years ago
Hence the term, agree to disagree.. You are a child with your hands over your ears, will not listen to any other comments on this anyway.. Your mind is made up, everyone is wrong you are right.. Be sure to be the victim in this remark as well.. You can't even accept the omnivore because it undermines your pathetic stance.. Have a nice day..
1957stan 2 years ago
When it comes to the unjustified slaughter and exploitation of sentient beings, there will be no compromise. If I'm so ignorant, then please, go ahead and argue one of the points in these videos. And please, tell me when I ever denied that the modern day human is an omnivore. 'Omnivore' or not, humans have no biological requirement to consume meat or animal products, and it is in fact healthier for us not to.
TheCite 2 years ago
Forgive me cite... Sometimes I have a very short fuse when it comes to vegans.. I just find it unacceptable that vegans cannot grasp the concept of agree to disagree when it comes to diet choices for one. We are omnivore, that is fact. Instead of moving on with differences, you take the moral highhorse, at the same time would stoop to changing everyone to fit your take on life? What in your mind makes you so very special? And not very demented?
1957stan 2 years ago
If you have a short fuse, then why not try constructively rebutting the points in these 3 videos, rather than giving me pointless mantras such as "We are omnivore", and other pathetic ad-hominems.
TheCite 2 years ago
Vegans are a funny little lot aren't they? Now we can't have pets? lol... Cite...You and your opinions are just that..opinions.. Go vegan if you wish... But the rest of the world knows we are omnivore.. You idiots actually think you will sway our own personal free choice of diet? Get over your silly self.. Go adopt another dog..
1957stan 2 years ago
I never tire of ad-hominems......
TheCite 2 years ago
The difference between humans and nonhumans is simple. Only humans ask themselves the "why" and the "how" of there presence on this planet as you do now. Also science has no explanation for humans"consciousness"about the "how" and the"why"humans are really conscious.Are animals conscious?
celt130 2 years ago
Whether an animal is smart enough to ask itself something as abstract as 'why am I here on Earth' is of no relevance. They understand the earth they live in, and that is all that is necessary for them. Look at your dog and tell me whether you think he's conscious or not. I think the answer speaks for itself.
TheCite 2 years ago
Is it not you who don't want other humans to have dogs?Seems pretty obvious in your comments you are against humans owning any animal.A dog is a creation of humans,humans have breed dogs for centuries changing there physical appearence and also there caracter.You know that human cats have 1/3 brain less then there wild conterpart?Humans have taking the animals who where the easiest to handle and the more docile and breed those.A dog is consciousness?Very funny.
celt130 2 years ago
I personally support everyone adopting animals from shelters, as millions of animals lose their lives in shelters due to human greed and carelessness. I oppose the breeding of animals for pets, as it is just another form of exploitation. Many, if not most, pets endure some form of abuse or mistreatment in their lives, and the owner always has the final say on the treatment of the animal. "Pet" ownership further concretes the notion that animals are property and things, which is inherently wrong
TheCite 2 years ago
Thank you to show us what a real danger you people are to democracy and to our individual freedom of choice including people who have pet animals.A lot of old people find those animals there only joy in life as they are alone.But you don't care about humans,don't you.
celt130 2 years ago
If we accepted that animals have inherent moral value, then we cannot justify breeding them for pets, just as we can't justify breeding them for food. Yeah, yeah, animal rights is a 'threat to democracy', because it puts the moral interests of animals over the unnecessary desires of humans.
TheCite 2 years ago
If you want a pet, go and adopt one from a shelter.
TheCite 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Whether an animal is smart enough to ask itself something as abstract as 'why am I here on Earth' is of no relevance"No relevance?That is what makes a human and how we act on this planet.Tell me,in what act is a dog conscious? A dog like any animal works on instincts or in his case pack philoshopy like wolves.You think a dog asks himself why he is on this planet?
celt130 2 years ago
I advise looking up the scientific term for 'conscious' or 'sentient', which will answer your questions.
TheCite 2 years ago
In the philosophy of consciousness,"sentience"can refer to the ability of any entity to have subjective perceptual experiences,or "qualia".This is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness,such as creativity, intelligence,sapience,self-awareness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something).Sentience is a minimalistic way of defining 'consciousness'.Here you have your answer.
celt130 2 years ago
Exactly. Consciousness does not equal human intelligence. If asking oneself abstract questions such as "Why am I here", then apparently the mentally disabled who cannot comprehend such concepts are 'not conscious'.
TheCite 2 years ago
Once again about "sentience"
"This is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness,such as creativity, intelligence,sapience,self-awa reness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something.
Sentience is a minimalistic way of defining 'consciousness'
That is what is written in the text ,not your own integrist tought's about philosophy.What do you have against mentally disabled humans,you think they are anilmals?
celt130 2 years ago
What left is to discuss here?
TheCite 2 years ago