The American Political Spectrum-N.Chomsky and C.Hitchens (2)

[shawnfromdallas]

This was before Hitchens sold out. I never found him to be a great, or even good, debater. He was okay. The Hitchens cult never made sense to me then, and it certainly makes even less sense to me now.

[iMaDeMoN2012]

This is absolutely ridiculous. If it is their aim to have friendly relations with emerging governments, then are they're serving an agenda of peace. The nature of the governments that are in good relations is irrelevant, there is still peace.

[diceyLee]

Nam Chompski .... mr. hutchens

[bigz008]

@diceyLee LOL....Nam

[BIZZAROpRODUCTIONs]

Mr. Hutchens! Dykes, Jews, or Butch! Be careful sir!

[BipedalHumanoid]

Frogs

[Lion117]

Wow, awesome, Chomsky and Hitchens

[Klubiy]

the host needs to shut up

[lGnossos]

It's really shocking hearing the difference between hitchens of '92 and the one of the present.

[hunterthompson123]

At least chomsky has still kept his head.

[jkqd14]

I literally laughed out loud. Chomsky has devolved into a predictable, dreary old professor of former greatness; Hitchens jets around the world pumping out terrific journalism, is the world's leading scholar on at least three or four authors (Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis), a prolific critic, and a valued social commentator. But maybe you prefer the "gonzo" style of journalism. It's certainly easier, making up your own facts and so on.

[hunterthompson123]

i dont really like Gonzo journalism, i made this account when i was 15, and had just finished reading F&L, for the third time in 2 weeks. im in love with that book.

Anyway, i meant in war. hitchens is for some reason for this new more deadly Iraq war. Chomsky isnt...Thats what i meant.

I love Chomsky. Still. I think hes as astute now as he ever was. Disagree if you like, thats up to you

i like hitchens work on religion, but his Stance on the Iraq war, almost makes me dislike him all toghether

[jkqd14]

He's just not as quick or incisive anymore, he just seems weary and cynical and pauses for Uhs and Ums every three seconds.

[Arkinight]

Yeah, like I said, standard practice for empires. Not to mention demonizing and ridiculing those who point out the crimes of those at the top, like you're doing right now. Much easier to use narrow unenlightened insults than actually critically acknowledge and respond to the points. Responding to the points critically would mean acknowledgment, therefore any attempts to justify it would obviously fall flat on its face. So yeah, stick to critiquing his speech patterns, it helps divert attention.

[jkqd14]

You're self-righteous and irritating, you jump to conclusions, and you construct straw men and infer intentions that aren't there. I don't take you seriously and there's no need for either of us to continue here, though something tells me you will. Have a great day.

[Arkinight]

Hitchens is a fraud and a vulgar propagandist. There is a reason why he jets around the world and gets huge publicity these days. It's because he's subservient to the interests of power; he justifies state crimes, demonizes anybody who disagrees and uses vacuous rhetoric to make issues convoluted.

[jkqd14]

I'm not pro-Iraqi Liberation, but that doesn't mean that anybody who is is a fraud or a propagandist. He's by far most popular for his atheism, which is by no means favored by the ruling or the political class, and certainly not by the media.

He doesn't "justify state crimes" as a rule, he's an internationalist interventionalist. He wants to depose all fascists and dictators. Can't say I think he's realistic, but at least he talked about Darfur, Kosovo, North Korea, etc. in addition to Iraq.

[Arkinight]

Yeah, well the Nazis said the same thing when they invaded France and Poland, that they were liberating them. So did the Soviet Union going into Afghanistan, so did the United States going in Afghanistan. In fact, the United States said they were liberating Vietnam when they pulverized that place. So yeah, that's pretty standard rhetoric for empires, you can call that action whatever you like, though.

The question of international and US law never gets asked anyways.

[Arkinight]

Yeah, it really aches state and corporate power centres that he's talking about atheism, I'm sure it directly challenges their [religious?] authority.

He's not just concerned with 'liberation' of Iraq; he's convinced that there is a Middle East wide movement that wants to implement some kind of Islamic empire and subjugate the entire world. No need to really prove this, just simply state it and talk about it like it's undeniable fact.

[Arkinight]

He wants to depose all fascists and dictators? Well probably not all of them, right? Like probably not the ones that the United States installed and support diplomatically and economically. What's his basis for intervention? May I suggest he start intervening to depose those in Washington carrying out fascist policies elsewhere in the world. While domestically using the secular priesthood of state-worship; through the religion of nationalism to justify it as good and wonderful.

[whiff1962]

What a load of garbage. Invectives without substantive backing is bilious envy.

[Arkinight]

Which is exactly his entire premise, "we need to be over there so they won't come over here". Sound familiar? That's his whole line of reasoning except he adds the qualification that it's because Muslims wants to establish the caliphate. Where is the evidence for this? Read anybody that has ANY knowledge on the subject and they will instantly discount it. Juan Cole, Dahr Jamail, Patrick Cockburn, hell even Michael Ware, CNN's Iraq correspondent thinks it's absolute lunacy.

[Arkinight]

/watch?v=HxZrTgOkIl8

Here's a video since are we on YouTube after all, but if you actually want to bother, just look up and read articles written by actual journalists and academics that I mentioned.

He rants on about how religion is such a terrible force yet never mentions the worst religion of all - state worship, nationalism. That's because he's a very devout follower, and continually justifies George W. Bush.

Yeah, once again, a fraud and a commissar.

[chupacabra]

actually, he does mention nationalism. in several debates, such as with dinesh d'souza, who brings up the negative effects of societies in which religion is banned, hitchens describes state worship as a substitute for, not the absence of, religion.

[Arkinight]

Really? He does? And does he describe how he himself is a devout follower?

Certainly continually justifying a blatant war criminal (George W. Bush), parroting the official state line for the invasion of Iraq, and using the invented caliphate myth all qualify as serving nothing but the interests of power.

Either he A. does not know what state-worship is; or B. he is simply lying.

He's certainly not that dumb to not know what it is that he is doing.

[Arkinight]

Yeah, I'm terribly jealous of Hitchens, I really wish I could justify war crimes with such flourishing rhetoric. Go read some of the actual journalists I mentioned and you'll see a far different perspective. Incidentally you'll also see something that seems rather absent from anything Hitchens writes - evidence.

[whiff1962]

A different perspective will illuminate the truth? Really? I think that Hitchens has a quite balanced account of the machinations of individuals and states, although, I must aver, he is at times seemingly cynical. Yes, there are many war crimes committed by the U.S. govt., I do not disagree. Let's agree on one thing, if nothing else: That only in a "free Market" of ideas, does one hope to arrive at the truth.

[Arkinight]

/watch?v=SgFlJjnULh0&feature=P­layList&p=530E7500F3675CAD&ind­ex=4

/watch?v=aqQJwcgFozU&feature=r­elated

[greatsea]

Are you referring to your comment.

[Air420]

Dr.Chomsky Mr.Hutchens lol

[caelarent]

Holy crap, this was Talk of the Nation?! You'll never get a pair like this on the show today, given how insipid it's become.

[Hottides]

Hitchens is a proponent of personal liberty, not Statism. Hitchens does logically advocate that the State's considerable powers of persuasion and coercion be used to propagate liberal and Enlightenment values among those denied liberty and knowledge by ignorant and oppressive ideologies and creeds.

[grgz]

A woman calls in to a radio discussion with Noam Chomsky and Christopher Hitchens... and take time out of this rare occasion we have them together with her own rant. People obviously tuned in to hear the two well known intellectuals. Hosts/moderators should be more willing to interrupt with "Sir, what is your question?"

[GurzgleGurzgle]

Few things are as stupid as when someone ON THE RADIO OR TV complains about "the corporations" or "the media" or whatever entity preventing blocking the "truth," usually they just said. And what is Chomsky doing here? Just that.

[sshuck]

Where should we complain about them? Or is all complaint about corporations or media stupid?

[Alberto99]

Well, we know of at least one thing that is more stupid... YOU.

[gavrilo2007]

Is it ironic that Hitchens these days is always on cable TV, whereas Chomsky almost never is?

[cfotoole]

No, I don't see how that's ironic.

[pobasted]

Some hermaphrodite called in and said "there are genetic differences between men and women." High Larry Ass

[emire25]

Nowadays it is considered political discourse for a preening 'celebrity' to dance around a concentration camp to 'highlight' poverty that they assume nobody has ever heard of. (well they did'nt until the saw how Bono built a career exploiting the poor in Africa by becoming the face of the biggest global scam of the 21 century)

[AlanCom1]

guys, don't be stupid. You are so stupid to see the light. you need some maturity to grow up.

These guys are complaining that the media is controlled by corporate interests, when we all know that media is LEFT leaning. People who aren't qualified to do anything else spew their socialist illusions.

[blackandyellowacid]

why do you say "we all know". I could just as readily say "we all know that the media is RIGHT leaning." It would help your 'qualifications' if you offered some evidence. Don't hurry. We can wait.

[AlanCom1]

black and yellow, when you are reading the papers or watch tv, do you have the feeling that they promote more or less freedom for the individual?

Do you have the impression that they want more or less government?

Are the journalists the people that do things, or those that criticize others for doing?

When somebody does something out of the ordinary, do they say: wow, great somebody in enjoying its freedom, or do they come with moralizing comments?

[rspawn]

google "the myth of the liberal media"

[romeozulutango]

thanks for this!

[mjd1982]

what the fuck happened to hitchens, shit...

[theloniouz]

It's amazing to be reminded of when Hitchens was actually a sane man. How can anyone say what he is saying here and then deny it all so obliviously jsut over a decade later. I suggest some kind of body-switch or a secret labotomy?

[KentAllard]

a lot of people joke about alcoholism, although if thats the case I don't think its something people ought to be making fun of, maybe just a really really bad reaction to the developments of the world

[jmguitard]

the Iluminati got him!

[salim201]

lol yeh but essentially he's right and chomsky agree with the notion of liberal bias..

[KentAllard]

the caller at the end - wtf?

[samdonuge]

lol i kno.. hahahahahahaha wtf

[nemetem7]

lmao.