Whatwould happen to these people if there community is shut down how would they support themselves in the REAL WORLD? I feel bad for the children i hope there kids experience the greatness of the entire world. I have travelled and there are so many options.
Cont from below. Also to be considered is that TO does not pay social security taxes. Unless you plan to stay in community for your whole life, you can end up being trapped with no way to support yourself or retire in the outside world. If you want to bring your children to TO or want to have children at TO, it can get very frustrating and complicated. Basically, you can find yourself living in a very isolated, confined environment with little freedom and control over the basics of your life.
Continued from below. Practically speaking, you can only have relationships with those who are there on the farm. If you want your partner to live at TO, they have to be voted on the same as you. If you fall in love with a visitor, and that visitor gets voted out, then you have to leave if you want to continue the relationship. Variety of work is very limited. The job you might want, either someone else is probably doing it or it doesn't exist. TO lifestyle is for a very small number of people.
Valerie presents one side very well. The other side can just be an outline in these few words. Food, clothing, shelter, transportation, relationships and work are issues that should be examined in some detail. Very briefly. Food choices are limited; you eat what's cooked or make your own. You wear commie clothes or bring your own. You live in dorms (called residences). There are a limited number of vehicles and you pay for them from allowance (there are also shuttles to nearby towns).
Well obviously Twin Oaks, like any other intentional community, isn't for everyone. I'd rather live in my own home (with some additional levels of privacy and autonomy for example) in a cozy little self-contained ecovillage than in one big building with a bunch of people, who, if recalled, share the kitchen and washroom- reminiscent of a hostel. ('Too close for comfort' comes to mind)
I can still regardless appreciate how TO might be, in some ways, an important experiment, and fill some niches.
I am an ex-Twin Oaker. I liken Twin Oaks and other alternative communities more to a village, experimenting in methods of organization, culture, economics, communication, and sustainability in ways that are absolutely critical to the survival of modern people. Please remember that the vehicles also serve all of the communities businesses as well, and that the workweek includes cooking, cleaning, and other activities that come out of most folks personal time.
The 42-hour workweek (not necessarily mentioned in this part 1) seems arbitrary, even overkill, and a holdover of the current unsustainable economic model (consider Herman Daly's notion of the workweek for example).
In fact, Twin Oaks, what with its vehicles, ostensibly-large revolving door of in/out-migrations, and housing that appears more like boarding houses, seems more of an annex to the "regular" world-- a kind of camp for adults-- than a true or pure self-sustaining community or village
@Glomerol I attended one of the visitor sessions for Twin Oaks summer of 2008 and while I must say that not all of my experiences there were pleasant, it is also nothing like you are describing. They don't live in boarding houses, they live in homes. Some of them are more comfortable than others but overall I was very surprised by how warm and cozy they were.
@Glomerol I attended one of the visitor sessions for Twin Oaks summer of 2008 and while I must say that not all of my experiences there were pleasant, it is also nothing like you are describing. They don't live in boarding houses, they live in homes. Some of them are more comfortable than others but overall I was very surprised by how warm and cozy they were.
@Glomerol The beauty of their labor system as Mr Kenoaks said, tradtional "women's work" (housework) is valued just as much as hard labor. Everything you do benefits the community which you yourself are a part of. Six hours could be cooking a meal one night while someone else is cleaning, you give to them and they give to you. Its an entirely different experience and you shouldn't judge so harshly without experiencing. Personally the dynamic wasn't right for me but it works great for others.
Thanks for doing this interview. It is very fascinating for people like me who don't have the foggiest idea about communes. But I am learning. I am also learning about the Kibbutzim in Israel. I would simply ask one question. Do you think a commune can operate and thrive in our current economic system? It seems the answer is yes. Any takers?
The collective shopping would suck to. haha!
Koolademan7000 1 year ago
Whatwould happen to these people if there community is shut down how would they support themselves in the REAL WORLD? I feel bad for the children i hope there kids experience the greatness of the entire world. I have travelled and there are so many options.
Koolademan7000 1 year ago
Cont from below. Also to be considered is that TO does not pay social security taxes. Unless you plan to stay in community for your whole life, you can end up being trapped with no way to support yourself or retire in the outside world. If you want to bring your children to TO or want to have children at TO, it can get very frustrating and complicated. Basically, you can find yourself living in a very isolated, confined environment with little freedom and control over the basics of your life.
Ardalla555 1 year ago
Continued from below. Practically speaking, you can only have relationships with those who are there on the farm. If you want your partner to live at TO, they have to be voted on the same as you. If you fall in love with a visitor, and that visitor gets voted out, then you have to leave if you want to continue the relationship. Variety of work is very limited. The job you might want, either someone else is probably doing it or it doesn't exist. TO lifestyle is for a very small number of people.
Ardalla555 1 year ago
Valerie presents one side very well. The other side can just be an outline in these few words. Food, clothing, shelter, transportation, relationships and work are issues that should be examined in some detail. Very briefly. Food choices are limited; you eat what's cooked or make your own. You wear commie clothes or bring your own. You live in dorms (called residences). There are a limited number of vehicles and you pay for them from allowance (there are also shuttles to nearby towns).
Ardalla555 1 year ago
Well obviously Twin Oaks, like any other intentional community, isn't for everyone. I'd rather live in my own home (with some additional levels of privacy and autonomy for example) in a cozy little self-contained ecovillage than in one big building with a bunch of people, who, if recalled, share the kitchen and washroom- reminiscent of a hostel. ('Too close for comfort' comes to mind)
I can still regardless appreciate how TO might be, in some ways, an important experiment, and fill some niches.
Glomerol 1 year ago 3
I am an ex-Twin Oaker. I liken Twin Oaks and other alternative communities more to a village, experimenting in methods of organization, culture, economics, communication, and sustainability in ways that are absolutely critical to the survival of modern people. Please remember that the vehicles also serve all of the communities businesses as well, and that the workweek includes cooking, cleaning, and other activities that come out of most folks personal time.
MrKenoaks59 1 year ago
The 42-hour workweek (not necessarily mentioned in this part 1) seems arbitrary, even overkill, and a holdover of the current unsustainable economic model (consider Herman Daly's notion of the workweek for example).
In fact, Twin Oaks, what with its vehicles, ostensibly-large revolving door of in/out-migrations, and housing that appears more like boarding houses, seems more of an annex to the "regular" world-- a kind of camp for adults-- than a true or pure self-sustaining community or village
Glomerol 1 year ago
@Glomerol I attended one of the visitor sessions for Twin Oaks summer of 2008 and while I must say that not all of my experiences there were pleasant, it is also nothing like you are describing. They don't live in boarding houses, they live in homes. Some of them are more comfortable than others but overall I was very surprised by how warm and cozy they were.
sweettone1221 1 year ago
@Glomerol I attended one of the visitor sessions for Twin Oaks summer of 2008 and while I must say that not all of my experiences there were pleasant, it is also nothing like you are describing. They don't live in boarding houses, they live in homes. Some of them are more comfortable than others but overall I was very surprised by how warm and cozy they were.
sweettone1221 1 year ago
@Glomerol The beauty of their labor system as Mr Kenoaks said, tradtional "women's work" (housework) is valued just as much as hard labor. Everything you do benefits the community which you yourself are a part of. Six hours could be cooking a meal one night while someone else is cleaning, you give to them and they give to you. Its an entirely different experience and you shouldn't judge so harshly without experiencing. Personally the dynamic wasn't right for me but it works great for others.
sweettone1221 1 year ago
Thanks for doing this interview. It is very fascinating for people like me who don't have the foggiest idea about communes. But I am learning. I am also learning about the Kibbutzim in Israel. I would simply ask one question. Do you think a commune can operate and thrive in our current economic system? It seems the answer is yes. Any takers?
tryanjohnson 1 year ago
Excellent. Concise, interesting, articulate. Satisfying.
suziestudio 2 years ago 3
This is so cool. Thanks for doing the interview and sharing it.
AntiLoquaxx 2 years ago 2