I have to LAUGH when he says he is confident that tongues-speaking has not been excersized since the first century. Only someone totally brainwashed by false doctrine could make such preposterous claims! He is not only against a gift of THE SPIRIT OF THE GOD, He is opposing the Spirit of God through his man-made doctrine of cessationism, which is so easy to refute from the Pentecostal Handbook known as the New Testament
charismatic = satanic .true " Tongues " is for today , but is not easily understood .A Holy Spirit filled person will not realise he is doing so until someone tells him he is speaking a foreighn language while he is preaching or praising Jesus .
the spiritual experiance charismatics say you must have ( tongues or youre lacking) is the start of satanic deception.
Best teaching I've heard is John MacArthur ,apart from Bible .
I really think you are not preaching Gods word correctly. I am not pentacostal or charismatic . The gift and other gifts are for today. I was raised catholic and never heard about tongues until I became born again through the holy spirit who showed me what Jesus did for me on the cross and gave me the gift of tongues, It is a true spiritual experience - the bible says we must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven. God is so awesome. He is powerful and shares his power with us
@averagetheologian the 'tongues' mentioned in 1 Cor 14:2 can't be 'foreign languages' otherwise they would be understood by some people. So this 'speaking to God' which is a 'mystery uttered by the Spirit' could surely be called 'prayer language'? If we go further to verse 14 of 1 Cor 14, Paul is saying that his mind is unfruitful ie his mind does not understand what he is praying in tongues, but rather his spirit is praying directly to God. This seems pretty straight forward to me.??
@CatD66 The purpose of the tongues was for the edification of the church, not the individual: " Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. " v5
"So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. " v12
@CatD66 If tongues were a private language, it would make no sense for Paul to command interpretation: 13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.
16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
@TheotherPrometheus I see what you are saying, and hence why I'm confused about 'tongues'. May I private message you so I can explain a bit better. It's hard to convey things when there is a word limit?
You can not lean on your own understanding but through the Holy Spirit of God . He does have some very sound knowleadge though, but he is miss quoting a little. Paul spoke of both tongues in 1 Cor 13:1 not just one tongue.
I do believe in speaking in tongues. Though I speak with the tongues of men AND angel, yet I have not chartiy etc........... Paul admitted to speaking in with the tongue of angels which is obviously not a human language. 1 Cor. 14: 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him..... That is direct scripture and show that tongues don't have to be an earthy, known language like german or arabic etc.
@iluvthearts I always find it odd that the Holy Spirit never gives teh gifts of interpretation. Paul is using a form of language known as hyperbole. IF I had a million dollars but DID NOT have love. Paul never claims to speak in any angelic language. The greek upholds this. Also, any time angels spoke in scripture, they spoke with the languages of men. As a former pentecostal, I was always shocked at how many people made this claim, hearing them all speak different tongues. LOL
I have noticed that alot of people who say they believe in tongues only if it is an actual language and someone is interpreting it, they NEVER speak in the tongues (not even tongues in an actual language ). If they believe it has to be a human language, why don't they basically EVER operate in that gift using actual language. The usual don't do it at all.
@averagetheologian You make some good points here. I can see the 'hyperbole' as referring to the 'tongues of angels' but I need further clarification on what Paul means in 1 Cor 14:1-5? Paul can't be referring to 'foreign languages here' as this doesn't make any sense. Verse 14 is also interesting?? Is there 'prayer language' as weird as this seems?
@TheotherPrometheus Thanks for your reply. We read of the disciples being given the gift of speaking in foreign languages (tongues) that the people of these languages could understand- so nothing strange here: 'foreign languages'. we then have Paul talking about people speaking words to God (not other people) that the speaker doesn't understand, but rahter their spirit, so this is the bit I'm trying to clarify??
@CatD66 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
Paul says the tongue speaker speaks to God and not man because no one understands him.
There was terrible abuse of the gifts going on. People were speaking in tongues during corporate worship without anybody knowing what was said. Without interpretation, no one could say "amen", (Verse 16)
@TheotherPrometheus Many of you are saying there is only one kind of tongues ie foreign languages I always thought that the first tongues given at Pentecost was foreign languages which was to help establish the church. I dont understand why God would give the gift of 'Chinese' unless someone who is Chinese is going to hear it. these tongues that people are given for themselves must be heavenly languages that arent meant for other humans to understand but only our spirit and Gods.
@CatD66 Clearly the Corinthians, like Paul, could control their tongues. Perhaps someone with that language WAS in the church to hear it, perhaps not. Tongues were a sign to unbelievers.
Why would God give some people a secret prayer language? Why would He give them to some and not others?
@CatD66 Clearly the Corinthians, like Paul, could control their tongues. Perhaps someone with that language WAS in the church to hear it, perhaps not. Tongues were a sign to unbelievers. v22
Why would God give some people a secret prayer language? Why would He give them to some and not others?
@averagetheologian the church I belong to, does have interpretation. This only happens if someone speaks out boldly in church with a tongue. Someone then intereprets this. People quietly speak their 'prayer language' which they don't understand but which is their spirit bypassing their mind and speaking directly to God. These 'utterances' don't need interpreting.
But if GOD is unchanging, the same "yesterday today and tomorrow", then how is it that this preacher can say the charismatic pentecostal movement believes GOD will do things today that he isn't necessarily doing anymore? I want to understand where God decided... No more Speaking in tongues, as this man says he did.
@jinkyfc But with that verse (in such a context) knowledge is something that is not for today.
How do you make the division between knowledge and the other Gifts of the Holy Spirit? 1Cor 12:1-11
Matt12:31, this is dangerous stuff. If you don't know, then seek God for knowledge; and until you do know, just admit that you don't. If something is of God and you denounce it... may his mercy lead you to repentance! Assumption of evil is very dangerous. Sorry to bug you a year after the post.
@jinkyfc I have heard this verse used many times, but it doesn't say when they will cease. Do you believe knowledge has ceased?
I'm not sure regarding this scriptures use, I am not charesmatic myself but I don't see this passage as being conclusive. My other thought is that if it is only an apostles gift why was it taught since the apostles were only a small number, why teach the corinthians about the gifts?
@TorchSingerByNight Do donkeys still speak? Are we still getting new scripture? If NOT, then the notion that God is "the same" meaning God works the same always is a farce...
Regarding the reference to Corinthians 15 in this video, verse 29 states:
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
The "dead" that Paul is referring to is Jesus. He refers to Christ this way because, if one reads 1 Cor. 15:12-29 in context, it is clear that some people believed that Christ had NOT risen but was still dead. Paul states that if this were so then the ministry would be pointless.
I have to LAUGH when he says he is confident that tongues-speaking has not been excersized since the first century. Only someone totally brainwashed by false doctrine could make such preposterous claims! He is not only against a gift of THE SPIRIT OF THE GOD, He is opposing the Spirit of God through his man-made doctrine of cessationism, which is so easy to refute from the Pentecostal Handbook known as the New Testament
Providential1611 1 month ago
charismatic = satanic .true " Tongues " is for today , but is not easily understood .A Holy Spirit filled person will not realise he is doing so until someone tells him he is speaking a foreighn language while he is preaching or praising Jesus .
the spiritual experiance charismatics say you must have ( tongues or youre lacking) is the start of satanic deception.
Best teaching I've heard is John MacArthur ,apart from Bible .
davidthomasmorton 4 months ago
I really think you are not preaching Gods word correctly. I am not pentacostal or charismatic . The gift and other gifts are for today. I was raised catholic and never heard about tongues until I became born again through the holy spirit who showed me what Jesus did for me on the cross and gave me the gift of tongues, It is a true spiritual experience - the bible says we must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven. God is so awesome. He is powerful and shares his power with us
godsend2529 8 months ago
Prayer language? NOT mentioned in the bible...sorry. BYPASSING our minds? Again, NOT in scripture...sorry.
averagetheologian 1 year ago
@averagetheologian the 'tongues' mentioned in 1 Cor 14:2 can't be 'foreign languages' otherwise they would be understood by some people. So this 'speaking to God' which is a 'mystery uttered by the Spirit' could surely be called 'prayer language'? If we go further to verse 14 of 1 Cor 14, Paul is saying that his mind is unfruitful ie his mind does not understand what he is praying in tongues, but rather his spirit is praying directly to God. This seems pretty straight forward to me.??
CatD66 1 year ago
@CatD66 The purpose of the tongues was for the edification of the church, not the individual: " Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. " v5
"So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. " v12
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
@CatD66 If tongues were a private language, it would make no sense for Paul to command interpretation: 13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.
16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
@TheotherPrometheus I see what you are saying, and hence why I'm confused about 'tongues'. May I private message you so I can explain a bit better. It's hard to convey things when there is a word limit?
CatD66 1 year ago
@CatD66 Of course.
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
You can not lean on your own understanding but through the Holy Spirit of God . He does have some very sound knowleadge though, but he is miss quoting a little. Paul spoke of both tongues in 1 Cor 13:1 not just one tongue.
tassiespirit 1 year ago
I do believe in speaking in tongues. Though I speak with the tongues of men AND angel, yet I have not chartiy etc........... Paul admitted to speaking in with the tongue of angels which is obviously not a human language. 1 Cor. 14: 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him..... That is direct scripture and show that tongues don't have to be an earthy, known language like german or arabic etc.
iluvthearts 2 years ago
@iluvthearts I always find it odd that the Holy Spirit never gives teh gifts of interpretation. Paul is using a form of language known as hyperbole. IF I had a million dollars but DID NOT have love. Paul never claims to speak in any angelic language. The greek upholds this. Also, any time angels spoke in scripture, they spoke with the languages of men. As a former pentecostal, I was always shocked at how many people made this claim, hearing them all speak different tongues. LOL
averagetheologian 2 years ago
I have noticed that alot of people who say they believe in tongues only if it is an actual language and someone is interpreting it, they NEVER speak in the tongues (not even tongues in an actual language ). If they believe it has to be a human language, why don't they basically EVER operate in that gift using actual language. The usual don't do it at all.
iluvthearts 2 years ago
@averagetheologian You make some good points here. I can see the 'hyperbole' as referring to the 'tongues of angels' but I need further clarification on what Paul means in 1 Cor 14:1-5? Paul can't be referring to 'foreign languages here' as this doesn't make any sense. Verse 14 is also interesting?? Is there 'prayer language' as weird as this seems?
CatD66 2 years ago
@CatD66 Why doesn't it make sense? If you don't know the language, it is an unknown tongue.
There is no "prayer language". He was simply refering to speaking in tongues while praying.
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
@TheotherPrometheus Thanks for your reply. We read of the disciples being given the gift of speaking in foreign languages (tongues) that the people of these languages could understand- so nothing strange here: 'foreign languages'. we then have Paul talking about people speaking words to God (not other people) that the speaker doesn't understand, but rahter their spirit, so this is the bit I'm trying to clarify??
CatD66 1 year ago
@CatD66 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
Paul says the tongue speaker speaks to God and not man because no one understands him.
There was terrible abuse of the gifts going on. People were speaking in tongues during corporate worship without anybody knowing what was said. Without interpretation, no one could say "amen", (Verse 16)
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
@TheotherPrometheus Many of you are saying there is only one kind of tongues ie foreign languages I always thought that the first tongues given at Pentecost was foreign languages which was to help establish the church. I dont understand why God would give the gift of 'Chinese' unless someone who is Chinese is going to hear it. these tongues that people are given for themselves must be heavenly languages that arent meant for other humans to understand but only our spirit and Gods.
CatD66 1 year ago
@CatD66 Clearly the Corinthians, like Paul, could control their tongues. Perhaps someone with that language WAS in the church to hear it, perhaps not. Tongues were a sign to unbelievers.
Why would God give some people a secret prayer language? Why would He give them to some and not others?
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
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@CatD66 Clearly the Corinthians, like Paul, could control their tongues. Perhaps someone with that language WAS in the church to hear it, perhaps not. Tongues were a sign to unbelievers. v22
Why would God give some people a secret prayer language? Why would He give them to some and not others?
TheotherPrometheus 1 year ago
@averagetheologian the church I belong to, does have interpretation. This only happens if someone speaks out boldly in church with a tongue. Someone then intereprets this. People quietly speak their 'prayer language' which they don't understand but which is their spirit bypassing their mind and speaking directly to God. These 'utterances' don't need interpreting.
CatD66 1 year ago
But if GOD is unchanging, the same "yesterday today and tomorrow", then how is it that this preacher can say the charismatic pentecostal movement believes GOD will do things today that he isn't necessarily doing anymore? I want to understand where God decided... No more Speaking in tongues, as this man says he did.
TorchSingerByNight 2 years ago
he is quoting scripture
1Cr 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.
jinkyfc 2 years ago
@jinkyfc But with that verse (in such a context) knowledge is something that is not for today.
How do you make the division between knowledge and the other Gifts of the Holy Spirit? 1Cor 12:1-11
Matt12:31, this is dangerous stuff. If you don't know, then seek God for knowledge; and until you do know, just admit that you don't. If something is of God and you denounce it... may his mercy lead you to repentance! Assumption of evil is very dangerous. Sorry to bug you a year after the post.
finalmattasy 1 year ago
@jinkyfc 1 Cor 13 is talking about love and that importance more than tongues.
tassiespirit 1 year ago
@jinkyfc I have heard this verse used many times, but it doesn't say when they will cease. Do you believe knowledge has ceased?
I'm not sure regarding this scriptures use, I am not charesmatic myself but I don't see this passage as being conclusive. My other thought is that if it is only an apostles gift why was it taught since the apostles were only a small number, why teach the corinthians about the gifts?
stephjh2006 1 year ago
@jinkyfc brilliant answer
Atonecc 6 months ago
@TorchSingerByNight Do donkeys still speak? Are we still getting new scripture? If NOT, then the notion that God is "the same" meaning God works the same always is a farce...
averagetheologian 1 year ago
Regarding the reference to Corinthians 15 in this video, verse 29 states:
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
The "dead" that Paul is referring to is Jesus. He refers to Christ this way because, if one reads 1 Cor. 15:12-29 in context, it is clear that some people believed that Christ had NOT risen but was still dead. Paul states that if this were so then the ministry would be pointless.
Utopiang 3 years ago