Vaccine/Autism Conflicts of Interest

[210482fmj]

i still haven't seen any proof that these vaccinations actually do anything to protect people from ilnesses. Ok they tell us stuff but how do know the accuracy fo what they are telling us. Where is the proof?

[mjr256]

Yes, I recognized that you have a deep hatred for facts when you embraced such an ignorant position on medicine. But get back to me when you've got an ACTUAL argument backed by facts of your own.

[mjr256]

Actually, he only made $6 million, which I'm inclined to think he deserves given that he co-invented a vaccine that literally saves thousands of lives. Since when is getting paid for doing your job a conflict of interest?

[morepuppies]

@mjr256 His conflict of interest is that he regularly comments on vaccine safety, leaving out information critical of vaccine safety, while FAILING TO DISCLOSE that he is a vaccine profiteer. You can be a movie producer OR a movie critic. You can't do both. It is a conflict of interest.

You can't be a vaccine maker AND a vaccine critic, it is a conflict of interest. And if you try to do both you must DISCLOSE your vaccine profits so people know where your bias is.

Offit doesn't.

[mjr256]

@morepuppies

Of course he comments on vaccine safety. He's a fucking doctor! He's also a leading vaccine expert. & every interview he does, he's identified as having co-invented a vaccine. You'd rather the press interview non-experts? Your use of the word "profiteer" is misleading; the guy made money for doing his job. & you absolutely can be a movie producer & a movie critic. It's when you're reviewing your own movie that people should be particularly careful unless every other critic agrees.

[mjr256]

cont'd

The fact is Offit does disclose what he made from his vaccine. He is a vaccine expert. And every reputable health organization on planet Earth agrees with him. If Christopher Nolan tells you Inception is a good movie, you have reason to be skeptical. But when every film critic agrees with him, I fail to see the problem.

[briankofke]

@mjr256 Only 6 million dollars. You are a fucking retard; go get some more vaccines.

[StopGMO]

Part 1 - No one knows the causes of the afflictions in the autism spectrum. Regressive/classic autism & childhood disintegrative disorder are terrible ways to lose your child. After developing normally for 2-4 years your child can't talk or care for herself

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Vaccines are the only obvious related event & the one thing that's NEVER been clinically studied to determine the truth

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Dr Healy, former head of the NIH, has said the FDA/CDC/Big Pharma have not done the proper research

[StopGMO]

Part 2 - Shills like arcana batigol47 stumpyouch warthaug lie about autism vaccines & Dr Wakefield. Why do they lie?

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Vaccines are a benefit. Vaccines also damage kids, & it is a very low % so affected. We MUST make the effort to identify them BEFORE they are injected & their lives destroyed

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FDA/CDC refuse to admit a vaccine/autism link for 3 reasons. Big Pharma Influence/money, govt/corporate liability & fear of pandemics from not vaccinating. Let's stop the nonsense & find the truth

[SaveAmericaFightNWO]

lets make the CONNECTIONS people! Time to REIGN in THE ANTI-NWO movement to the next level!

[StopGMO]

Sleepy has given up defining his position with evidence he can show he understands

The reason he won't present his 2 best pieces of evidence is all he has is epidemiology (studies of old records). These studies are Big Pharma's favorite as they are relatively cheap & easily manipulated to imply anything, but prove nothing

Epidemiology shows coincidences/correlations which may need further clinical investigation. They can NEVER prove autism & vaccines are not linked, just imply it

[StopGMO]

Fact - As vaccination rose in the last 20 years & novel gene-altered toxins were added to a growing list of chemical poisons in vaccines, autism went up 33 times pre-1990 rates

Fact- USA kids get more vaccine than any others (FAR more than any other nation)

Fact- USA infant & child mortality is the highest among developed nations

Fact- USA has the highest autism rate in the world

FACT- Clinical study of vaccines & autism has NEVER been done. Toxin-free vaccine & safe antigens are needed

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO 1. What are these "gene-altered toxins" and what does that mean? 2. Where's the proof that vaccine exposure causes autism? 3. That's for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with this except vaccines demonstrably decrease infant morbidity and mortality. 4. Autism rates in the US are likely skyrocketing because of increased diagnosis -- just like Alzheimer's disease. Again, you need to demonstrate a causal link. 5. I just posted 10 of the biggest studies done. Read them!

[SayNoToGMO]

Sleepy claims to not know what "gene altered toxins" are, yet claims that I have no knowledge on these issues and should shut up.... hmmm sleepy, if you don't know how toxins produced through gene alteration get into infant and child vaccines.... maybe you are the one who needs to go to school... let me know hwat you find out sweetheart... Maybe some of your shill buddies can help you out

[sleepcity]

Tozzi AE, Bisiacchi P, Tarantino V, De Mei B, DElia L, Chiarotti F, Salmaso S. Neuropsychological Performance 10 Years After Immunization in Infancy With Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines. PEDIATRICS Vol. 123 No. 2 February 2009, pp. 475-482 (doi:10.1542/peds.2008-0795)

Verstraeten T, et al., Safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines: a two-phased study of computerized health maintenance organization databases. Pediatrics 2003;112:1039-1048.

[StopGMO]

Sleepy lists the Verstraeten study and the Tozzi study, but fails to state they are the 2 best he can find, fails to identify the conflicts, fails to identify the sponsoring organizations and fails to summarize them

Are these instructions too hard to follow? Just make the statement they are the best you can find. I will then expose them and you as fraudsake the commitment sleepy

[sleepcity]

Reality: Andrews N, et al., Thimerosal exposure in infants and developmental disorders: a retrospective cohort study in the United Kingdom does not support a causal association. Pediatrics, 2004;114:584-591.

Fombonne E., et. al., Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links with Immunizations. Pediatrics. 2006;118:139-150.

[StopGMO]

Sleepy again posts limited info on 2 studies, one is a blatant fraud using data from 2 cities 120 miles apart as if they were the same database. Fombonne is an expert witness testifying against autistic kids & their families. The UK has done more to deny/ostracize autistic children benefits than any nation on earth

Please, sleepy, state that these are the one's you claim are the 2 best. Please stand behind them posting a public statement to that effect. And add the missing info on them

[StopGMO]

East-manic doesn't have any of his info correct

1. Mercury is still in some childhood vaccines

2. H5N1 is not deadly to humans in general, only to immune compromised

3. The hype behind a deadly bird flu pandemic has not materialized since it was discovered in 1885, but it keeps getting repeated to keep the public distracted/fearful

4. The best protection against any illness is to eat right. Better nutrition has done more to prevent disease than any vaccine ever will

[Stargazer88]

@StopGMO How can you say that? If we all thought like you a number of years ago, children would still be striken with polio, smallpox and a myriad of other diseases. You can't eat yourself away from polio, it's not scurvy. your body (nor your childs) will not survive the exposure to any new or aggressive virus without a vaccine, period. your super "organic" diet won't help, some magical root you bought at the "health" food store won't help. Only modern medical science can help you then.

[StopGMO]

"Modern medical science", the kind that supports stargazer, has been paid for by big pharma. There are still many honest scientists, but they are pressured to tow the Big Pharma line or be persecuted like Dr Wakefield, a real heroe of modern medicine

Vaccines only "work" if your immune system (IS) is working. Vaccines are passive targets for our IS. not magic potions. Vaccine toxins are worse than what they "protect" us from. Live antigen is deadly to kids with immune problems

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO You are a conspiracy theorist and as such have effectively disqualified yourself from intelligent discussion of the issues you are so naively zealous about. I'm sorry, Andrew Wakefield? You mean the guy who published a bogus study that has since been retracted by its other authors AND the journal that published it because it was so obviously manufactured for lawyers who funded it? You have to do better than that, guy. And go back to high school to learn about the immune system.

[StopGMO]

Starting with "You are a conspiracy theorist" sleepy states I am not qualified to discuss these matters & repeats Deer's & Big Pharma's lies about Dr Wakefield

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The 10 authors never retracted the study, the science of which still stands. The Lancet used the GMC's difference of opinion with Dr Wakefield on ethical & clinical decisions as an excuse to retract the study. The Lancet had cleared Dr Wakefield of the very ethics charges the GMC found him guilty of

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But shills know this already

[Stargazer88]

@StopGMO So if we had it your way, children would still die from polio and smallpox? We would still be treating diseases with magical roots and spa treatments? No one has ever said that medical science is perfect or that doctors are for that matter. But how many people each year a saved from death by cancer from modern medical science, and how many are saved by a magic diet or homoeopathy? you my friend are a snake oil salesman, and you should leave medicine to the doctors.

[StopGMO]

Stargazer shows she is a dupe or a shill

Stargazer implies I am anti-vaccine. I am not. There are many vaccines we can do without such as Gardasil & Hepatitis B. All vaccines are toxic. Toxins & live virus are responsible for the damage to a small # of kids. Finding the kids who are sensitive to vaccine toxins or have immune problems is very important

Re: polio comment - The USA still has polio. Kids with immune problems get it from the live virus vaccine

Start thinking stargazer

[Stargazer88]

@StopGMO firstly, I am a man, not a woman. Secondly wile it is true that children are getting hurt by vaccines, sick even. that does not lessen the enormous benefits that we are reaping from it's discovery every day. Seeing kids in wheelchairs because of polio is no longer a common sight as it ones was. Research into vaccines and the effect they have on the individual is important, but writing of the benefits of modern medicine and embracing magic, is not a wise course of action.

[sleepcity]

@Stargazer88 Very interesting how our friend StopGMO concluded we were both female from the fact that we disagreed with him. Freudian goldmine!

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO Right. Stargazer is a shill because he or she disagrees with you on this issue. I'm a shill because I disagree with you on this issue... What a convenient, easy, thoughtless way to dispense with critical thinking! Yay! Conspiratorial ideology is all we need!

[StopGMO]

Sleepy says I call her a shill because I disagree with her. Just another lie.

This is simple. If you support Big Pharma using lies, deception, deflection & insults you are a Big Pharma shill.

Is this too hard to understand or is sleepy lying again?

We need clinical investigation into the vaccine autism issues to answer the questions & help the kids and families so horribly affected by regressive autism. Shills like sleepy would prefer we didn't stop creating those destroyed lives

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO Just so I understand: if you say something that StopGMO disagrees with, he stamps his feet and calls you names. Okay, got it. At first I thought I was conversing with an adult who cared about the truth, not a rabid ideologue with the emotional maturity of a twelve year old boy.

Yep, I'm a shill if having a brain and critically examining your thoughtless conspiratorial claims = shill, which, in your limited capacity, it does.

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO "Vaccines only "work" if your immune system (IS) is working."

Duhhhhh.....no fucking shit, genius. When did you win your Nobel?

The fact that many sick and elderly people can't get vaccines is ALL THE MORE REASON you should. It's called HERD IMMUNITY. Go look it up in your HIGH SCHOOL biology textbook you shrill, ignorant, conspiracy theorist.

[StopGMO]

2 best pieces of evidence sleepy. Where are they son?

Fact - As vaccination rose dramatically in the last 20 years & novel gene-altered toxins were added to a growing list of chemical poisons in vaccines, autism numbers also went up

Fact- USA kids get more vaccine than any others

Fact- USA infant & child mortality is the highest among developed nations

Fact- USA has the highest autism rate in the world

FACT- Clinical study of vaccines & autism has NEVER been done. It's long overdue

[StopGMO]

Modern medical science" kills 200,000 people a year with prescription mistakes. From JAMA "44,000 to 98,000 die each year [from] medical errors" & "20% to 30% of patients receive contraindicated care"

In addition to script mistakes their is deliberate deception/coverup in Big Pharma & FDA. Vioxx is a shining example. Released even though Merck knew it was killing people. the FDA ignored the warnings from 8 independent researchers. Over 60,000 died in 6 years... FROM ONE MEDICAL SCIENCE MIRACLE

[sinmantyx]

News Flash!

A small number of vaccine proponents have serious conflicts of interested - including some guy who wrote a book. These are the only ones we mentioned - all the others who do not support a link between vaccines and autism having no such conflicts are BORING.

By the way, the only researcher who published a journal article showing a link was directly paid about 55,000 pounds by a law firm and the journal that published it apologized. (He is free for speaking engagements.)

[morepuppies]

@sinmantyx There are many research articles linking vaccines and autism. I have about 35 listed on my blog. Adventures in Autism. Link on the top right says, "No Evidence of Any Link".

Start there.

[sinmantyx]

Thanks for the info, however, I am aware of various real vaccine injury issues (such as in children with compromised immune systems, Guillain Barre syndrome, allergies or mitochondrial disesase).

Nothing you put in your body - even common foods - are completely safe for everyone.

However, this particular news cast is irresponsible in attacking a small number of actual researchers, while ignoring those who spread extreme anti-vaccine misinformation and dangerous treatments such as chelation.

[sleepcity]

@sinmantyx Nobody seriously claims that vaccines do not carry associated risks. This is obvious. The point, however, is that these risks are extremely small and we have hundreds of years of vaccine use to point to as evidence of their safety. In fact, vaccines might be the safest medical therapy ever devised. Adverse reactions associated with mitochondrial diseases and autoimmune conditions are extremely rare. It's basic risk/benefit analysis.

On your second two points I agree 100%.

[michael0156]

sleepy refers to "hundreds of years of vaccines" as "evidence of safety". Apparently unfamiliar with numerous deaths & failures in the history & the major differences in modern manufacture & the level/type of toxins. This makes comparison with "hundreds of years" of vaccine non-"safety" irrelevant

Since 1990 vaccines & toxins in them increased dramatically. Since 1990 autism rose by a factor of 33. This association needs to be investigated with toxin-free vaccine clinical studies

[StopGMO]

sinner says "a small number of vaccine proponents have serious conflicts"

Like Offit, Madsen, Fombonne... the most often quoted and published of all the vaccine proponents are the most conflicted... there are many more. I challenge sinny to post the 2 best studies or pieces of evidence he has showing vaccines are safe or not connected to autism. List lead suthors, conflicts, sponsoring institutions & summarize the evidence. I'll expose you for the liar/deflector you are

[aspieresearchmom]

For-Profit Offit should be arrested, prosecuted , convicted and sentenced to prison for life for his blatant fraud against children.

[sleepcity]

@aspieresearchmom Sensationalize much? Let me guess...you don't have a college degree in the sciences. Am I right? Thought so...

Perhaps try reading books (I'd recommend starting with a college-level biology book) instead of websites that tell you what you want to hear.

[SayNoToGMO]

sleepy attacks a mother of an asperger's diagnosed child. More evidence of his being a sociopath.

2 studies or pieces of evidence sleepy... list lead authors, conflicts of interest, sponsoring institutions, summarize. I'll demonstrate your evidence that vaccines are safe to be irrelevant, wrong, fraudulent, or conflicted beyond believability

I'm still waiting, shill

[sleepcity]

@SayNoToGMO Yeah...I'm a college student who is paying his way through school by working on an ambulance...I MUST be a shill for a pharmaceutical corporation, right? Anyone who disagrees with you MUST be a secret agent of the global conspiracy to poison children! Wanna tell us who really shot JFK? Who really did 9/11? *yawn* This is so absurd. Go back to Alex Jones' website.

[michael0156]

Sleepy unverifiably says he's merely a college student working on an ambulance, proving he's no shill. There is no end to the lying shills do to make themselves seem unbiased and truthful

Here sleepy tries to associate me with bogus organizations/ideas rather than address any issue I brought up

Shill tactic of deflection/lying

[sleepcity]

@michael0156 The wonderful thing about being a conspiracy theorist is that literally anything anybody presents to you that contradicts your preconceived worldview can be explained away by appealing to an EVEN BIGGER CONSPIRACY!

It's so silly and predictable.

[michael0156]

Still waiting for you to present your 2 best pieces of evidence that vaccines don't cause autism. List lead authors, conflicts, sponsoring institutions, summarize the evidence to show you read & understand it

What level of damage to innocent kids is acceptable to you sleepy? If vaccines cause autism, that is only 1% of our population. Is that an acceptable level of added damage for "disease protection" that causes autoimmunity & other known damage in some kids?

Define your position

[sleepcity]

Yep, the sure sign that you have absolutely nothing of substance to contribute to this imagined "debate": personal attacks and threats.

Okay, I'm done attempting to talk to people who can barely speak English and have never taken a science class in their lives.

BTW - In the future you might consider that Google and the internet in general isn't the best place to learn about reality.

[zgadgets]

I am willing to give Sleepcity and Dr. Offit like he said a baby can take 10,000 Vaccines at once.. since Dr. Offit is your mentor.. You want to go first...and all the VIOXX you want for the Pain...

Don't forget that what a BABY can handle.

Going by weight, CDC rules if you weight 150lbs.. that would mean you can handle about 80,000 shots but we will just give you the BABY dose of 10,000 sounds fair..

Google this topic:

DID THE FEDERAL GOV'T. HIDE A FLU EPIDEMIC IN 1993 AND WHY?

[sleepcity]

So the only reason Andrew Wakefield, Richard Deth, Arthur Krigsman, etc. have not won Nobel Prizes is because all Nobel Prizes are determined by the boards of Merck, GlaxoSmithKline, and Astra Zeneca?

Why are these few researchers the ONLY ones in the whole world who've discovered this link? Why can nobody else reproduce their results? How come no respected scientists take them seriously?

Are you aware of how insane that sounds to normal people?

...and of course the ad hominem. Nice "debate"

[sleepcity]

The first problem with all of this anti-vaccine rhetoric is that the science doesn't support it. Do the studies, prove a link to autism/whatever, and claim your Nobel. Nobody's preventing you from getting an advanced degree, getting funding, and becoming the most celebrated researcher of your time.

The second problem is that it all hinges on the idea of a VAST WORLDWIDE CONSPIRACY...which is a sure sign you're talking to a loon.

[zgadgets]

They are in too Deep to admit to a link..

Parents and Doctor don't want to admit that they put their Patients and Children at risk...

Its worst that letting a child molester baby sit ... At least I know what to expect and who

and what we are Dealing with..

Mercury (Thermisol) a known Poison in any Form...

Crimes Against Our Children KNOWINGLY...

Deserves No Less Than First Degree Murder Charges...

Dr.Offit should be first on the list to be brought up on charges..

10,000 shots to him

[Eastmanarium]

Mercury hasn't been in vaccines in years.

...And your kid is still exposed to it in other ways every single day of their life.

So, bravo - when H5N1 breaks in humans, go ahead and let your kid deny a vaccine for a virus that kills 2/3 of the people it infects. Good parenting!

[sleepcity]

Wow, every single point of yours has been meticulously disproven in books, scientific journals, and courts of law. Bravo for putting the blinders on! You're a hardcore cultist!

[zgadgets]

Sleepcity must be a spoiled rich kid and works with hid daddy and has a huge trust fund.

go to on youtube>

US Court Rules In Favour Of Family In MMR Vaccine Case Ben Zeller Jr

Just ignore these name calling

IGNORANT MORONS.

Just do your reasearch sciense has shown to be very wrong in the past.

They are in to Deep to admit to a Link

Mercury (Thermisol) a known Poison in any Form. Crimes Against Our Children KNOWINGLY.

Deserves No Less Than First Degree Murder Charges.

[sleepcity]

Um, I'm a working class kid who's paying his own way through college to get a science degree. Regardless, what would my (imagined) wealth have to do with reality not supporting your conspiratorial nonsense?

Funny you say "works with hid [sic] daddy" -- oh you mean like David Geier? :)

ZERO court rulings ANYWHERE support what you allege. EVERY SINGLE CASE has proven there is no link between thimerasol (at least spell it RIGHT. It's "thimerasol" in the US or "thiomersal") and autism.

[evlpossum]

I think the issue of conflict of interest issue is simply an unavoidable outcome of practical realities, particularly the limited number of fully qualified specialists, the even smaller number of employers, and the high cost of medical research (also education). I would consider these serious problems, but criticizing individuals is not a path to a constructive solution.

Also, I would be interested in how well the correction of Olmstead's article is circulating. Comment @ evilpossum.weebly.

[morepuppies]

AGAIN.... BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET THE POINT...

Even if conflicts of interest are unavoidable THEY STILL MUST BE DECLARED!!!

If I hire a doctor to make medical recommendations for my son, but Merck has also hired that doctor and paid him a thousand times the fee I am paying him... it is my right to know that MY CHILD may not actually be the doctor's real client!

IT MIGHT ME MERCK!

If criticizing individuals is not the a path to a constructive solution, then why are you after Omsted?

[sleepcity]

Oh, you mean like Andrew Wakefield's ties? Richard Barr's ties? David Kirby's ties? The goofy Geier father-son circus act?

All of the celebrity cranks conducting the autism-vaccine steam engine have ALL been found to have unsavory financial interests in promoting this imagined link.

Oh right, it's all a VAST CONSPIRACY BY BIG PHARMA TO POISON CHILDREN!!!! RUN!!!!!!!

[evlpossum]

Paul Offit is under no obligation to disclose details of his personal income publicly. He could have been forced not to, if there were a non-disclosure clause in the contract. I reported Offit's statement on his earnings at my own site on 8/18, after arriving at the $6M figure independently from a Jan. 2007 CHOP publication. There is no excuse for Olmstead's apparent failure to locate this document.

[morepuppies]

Then take it up with Omsted. He is not here.

And NO ... Offit has no obligation to disclose that he is a vaccine millionaire.. unless he wants to be taken seriously.

It is an absolute JOKE that he thinks he can both a producer and a critic in the same industry much less that he thinks that he can do both with out disclosing both.

I can't believe we are having this conversation.

There is no defense for Offit in this case.

Nor AAP/ECBT.

[evlpossum]

I bring up Olmstead's story because his bogus $29M figure was previously mentioned.

I would add (in back-handed defense of Wakefield, as well as Offit) that I consider money a distraction in relation to ethics. I have read up on a number of cases of proved or probable cases of fraud py professional scientists, and NEVER found monetary or other material gain a satisfactory explanation of motive.

[morepuppies]

The point of disclosure is that first, we can't actually know what our full motives are, and second, the patient/consumer has the right to have all relevant information so that they can make an informed decision that is in their best interest.

You and Offit may believe that money doesn't matter, but if I do, then I have the right to know if money motives may be in play so I can evaluate his advice for me.

If a doc may be potentially motivated by $/power/influence, I have a right to know.

[evlpossum]

The $29M figure is a hoax by Dan Olmstead, who among other things falsely claimed that two other patent holders weren't paid.. Offit has disclosed to me that he and the other inventors each received $6M

[morepuppies]

Gosh... well... Offit ONLY got SIX MILLION DOLLARS.

Practically Mother Theresa that one.

Regaurdless of how many millions Offit got, he makes appearances, credits himself as a "infectious disease expert" fails to mention the vaccine millions, and exonerates vaccines of any possible harm.

He did it AGAIN today on Fox News. Just looking like someone whose only possible motive was the well being of the public. No vaccine patent mentioned.

No six million dollars mentioned.

[evlpossum]

The fact that critics could have made their point without exagerating Offit's income makes their choice to do so especially frivolous.

There's no basis for criticising him over "conflict of interest" not beint covered in TV interviews. For one thing, his background is already a matter of public record. For another, and most importantly, it's the reporters and producers who decide wha's covered in an interview (or aired portions thereof).

[morepuppies]

When the 29 M figure was written about, Offit had been refusing to disclose how much he made. They did the analysis from the compensation rules of his institution. That was last year.

When did he finally admit the amount, last month? I only heard about it two weeks ago. And I interviewed him this summer.

Clearly this video showed that he doesn't disclose his vaccine money to producers... you see how he introduces himself to CBS above. No mention.

Ten days after this piece aired...

[morepuppies]

Offit/AAP and ECBT hed a press conference to launch a pro vaccine campaign and NONE of them mentioned their conflicts of interest! When someone asked a question that got near it, they ended the event. It was astonishing!

People NOW know about Offit's background BECAUSE of this piece. The autism community screamed about it for years, but until this was aired, no one else in the media knew.

[sleepcity]

@morepuppies I love it. If you went by the YouTube comments, you'd have to guess that Dr. Offit made between six million and three hundred billion dollars (a figure I've actually seen some dolt allege on here).

Bahahahaaha! No perspective or knowledge whatsoever. Embarrassing.

[morepuppies]

@sleepcity Then don't make your decision about Offit's profits from you tube comments, go to the actual sources about this.

Age of Autism did an analysis on the info they had, Offit then claimed it was six million and gave more info, AoA then did a re analysis based on the new info.

Go read those sources and see for yourself.

[sleepcity]

Um, obviously AoA is a politically-oriented organization of anti-vaccine advocates. I should trust their studies over the studies of...you know, scientists and medical researchers over the last 200 years? Are you serious?

It's all beside the point; the data is undeniable. Vaccines work, they're extremely safe (compared with many medical therapies), and Paul Offit isn't the only one to say so. Almost ALL (real) physicians agree that vaccines are not only safe but necessary to curb disease.

[morepuppies]

@sleepcity AoA is a politically oriented organization.. and just like every other organization, the information they put out should be evaluated with scruteny to see if it is correct.

Since they are the only org that has looked into Offit's finances, look at their evaluation to see if it has merit

re: vaccine safety, I have another video entitled head of cdc admits that vaccines cause autism. Please take a look at it.

[sleepcity]

It's spelled "scrutiny". You're quite right it should be evaluated with scrutiny, such as what they are trying to prove or do with the information. I think it's pretty clear in this case.

But again, who cares what Offit's finances are. Either you're alleging a VAST global worldwide conspiracy over the past 200 years, or you're not.

The science says what it says. Vaccines don't cause autism. Show me evidence that demonstrates otherwise. Not opinions from parents, SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

[morepuppies]

@sleepcity

My blog is adventures in autism. On the top right under the Highlights section you will find a link entitled, "No evidence of any link". There are about 35 studies there that support the vaccine/autism link.

And sadly... the evidence has not demonstrated that vaccines don't cause autism. Actually the research that would needed to be done to make that statement has never been done.

Additionally... of the hundreds of vaccine ingredients only ONE has been evaluated.....

[morepuppies]

@morepuppies ... and of the dozens of vaccine that are given to American children, only two have been evaluated in regard to autism, MMR and Hep B. And guess what... The birth dose of the Hep B shot IS correlated with higher autism rates. That research was done this year... but the media didn't mention that. Hmmm.

And of the myriad of combination of vaccines that kids are given... none have been tested to see if they can cause autism together.

But NO ASSOCIATION is declared.

Right.

[sleepcity]

@sleepcity: There are far more that support no association, no link.

Just because you refuse to consider that the quality of studies is significant doesn't mean the crappy studies you cite are correct.

The vast majority of studies on an alleged autism-vaccine (pick one) link are negative. You can choose to accept the consensus or highlight the sum of positive studies. It illuminates more about your inability to reason than it does your ability to conduct basic science.

[StopGMO]

Sleepy says "There are far more that support no association

Name 2. List lead authors, conflicts, sponsoring institutions, and summarize them

I'll expose you for the liar/deflector you are sleepy

Vaccines are the ONLY correlation to the 20 year rise in autism. The rise is in lock step with increased vaccine schedule & the # & type of toxins in vaccines. This is simply a fact

Sleepy's "no-evidence" is epidemiological studies. They are easily manipulated statistics, not clinical science

[StopGMO]

To sleepy... All shills continue to avoid the challenge - present the 2 best studies you can find that show vaccines do not cause autism/ I'll demonstrate they are fraudulent, conflicted beyond belief, wrong or irrelevant.

List the lead authors, conflicts, sponsoring institutions and summarize them

when your 2 best studies or pieces of evidence fail the rest are mere garbage.

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO You're just demonstrating your ignorance of science, you silly goof. Two studies don't establish ANYTHING. It's the SUM of all studies that don't have methodological flaws. How is this so hard for you cultists to understand? Hundreds of well-conducted studies versus a handful of studies with methodological flaws, small sample sizes, no blinding, etc.

You need to go to the nearest community college and take an introductory science course because you obviously struggle with the basics.

[StopGMO]

sleepy avoids posting his 2 best pieces of evidence because he says that hundredsof studies are needed to prove his point... which he won't define or defend with evidence

If your 2 best pieces of evidence are fraudulent what does that say for your position sleepy?

Post your 2 best pieces of evidence shill or simply shut up

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO I'm not surprised you misunderstand. What rational people do is look at what the sum of all studies says in aggregate. Read those last two words again. The consensus achieved through ALL of the studies that don't have methodological flaws is what matters, not the number of studies. Is that point understood? This is very basic science you have no idea about.

[StopGMO]

Sleepy says the preponderance of epidemiological evidence is what matters. but she also says the studies shouldn't have flaws.

I have repeatedly asked her for the 2 best pieces of evidence that vaccines are not associated with autism, she continues to avoid responding other than to imply I would have to prove all of the studies wrong, not just 2.

But if her 2 BEST are garbage, what does that say for the rest?

2 best sleepy, stop making excuses

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO I'm not a woman but I love how you just assume I am because I happen to disagree with you. Very interesting statement, that.

[StopGMO]

I've referred to you as both a he and a she... but what does that have to do with the subject at hand you sociopathic shill? (gender neutral)

[StopGMO]

Sleepy says "look at what the sum of all studies says in aggregate."

-

This is sleepy's way of avoiding posting the 2 best studies he can find that show vaccines are not related to autism

-

If his 2 best are fraudulent, wrong, or conflicted the rest can be ignored. If the 2 best are not true, there is no need to look for a bunch of less effective studies which state the same thing

-

Sleepy knows he is wrong, that's why he won't stand behind any 2 studies and say they are the best

[StopGMO]

Rather than post any evidence to back him up sleepy launches a personal attack and then claims all studies that support him are well conducted (though he won;t list just 2) and that all studies that support me are flawed (again without listing any)

Obviously sleepy is one of the practiced shills avoiding posting any evidence because he knows how flawed/conflicted/irrelevant it is.

Put up or shut up sweetheart

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO ...your constant name-calling strongly indicates that you are not confident enough in your understanding to properly defend your position like an adult. Why is anyone who disagrees with you automatically a "shill" "in the pocket" of "Big Pharma"? This is just silliness. With regard to studies please see my previous comment. I can recommend some good books to help you understand how consensus is established in real science.

[StopGMO]

@sleepcity

Sleepy says "shill" is name calling.... only if it isn't true "sweetheart"

-

If you say the things Big Pharma & the FDA say, repeat the same lies & obfuscations, use fraudulent studies to "prove" your point, claim epidemiology is science & proves something... yes, you are a shill

-

Blindly supporting Big Pharma lines and lies, while portraying yourself as objective/unbiased, is the definition of shilling

Stop lying, I'll stop calling you a shill

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO What evidence do you have that I am paid by pharmaceutical companies to call bullshit on your general lack of science education? Right...none. You just honestly believe that anyone who disagrees with you is an agent of some fantastic pharmaceutical conspiracy. It's all rather simple and juvenile. You have no idea who I am and very little idea what my opinions are yet you know I'm secret agent/shill/whatever because, well, I disagree with you. How convenient and simple!

[StopGMO]

Sleepy claims I call him a shill because I disagree with him/her.

No. his arfuments (lines right from Big Pharma's playbook) and the lies he tells are what mark sleepy as a shill

Shill -

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO Right...the playbook. How could I forget? Got it right here. They gave it to me when I signed up to join the secret BigPharma Brotherhood. I also got a snazzy robe and some free pens -- you know how many free pens those guys have. Anywho...yeah, you're still a conspiracy theorist with the eloquence and emotional maturity of a nine year old. Please do go get an undergraduate science degree from a real college at least if you want to be taken seriously...

[StopGMO]

Sleepy responds to challenges with mis-direction, name calling and no facts

This is, again, the tactics of the shill with no intellectual ammo. The truth is vaccines are the only known correlation to autism. It's not genetic, it is not environmental pollution

The increase in vaccine poisons, the increased # of vaccines in American kids, that we have more infant/child mortality than any developed nation AND more autism are all alarms pointing to vaccine

Clinical study is needed

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO Is it possible for you to address me directly, you know, like an adult?

Scientists are the ones who do studies on vaccine and drug safety and efficacy, not random dudes on YouTube with third grade educations. And we should be thankful that it is so.

How hard is it for you to understand that correlation is NOT proof of causation. You really have no idea how VERY basic science works, do you?

[StopGMO]

Sleepy is now reduced to trying to get me into an emotionally enflamed argument by implying I am stupid or unread. This is another tool of the shill called deflection

-

He doesn't want to talk evidence because he knows how conflicted and fraudulent the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA/CDC have been and how easily he can be exposed

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Why do all of these organizations support fraudulent lying epidemiology? Why does sleepy avoid standing behind the 2 best studies he can find?

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO I posted a hell of a lot more than 2 studies. And your continued insistence on seeing "the two best studies" CONFIRMS that you still don't understand how basic research science works. It's the totality, the sum, the aggregate of all of the GOOD studies (i.e., large sample size, good methodology, double-blinded, peer-reviewed, etc.), not a single instance or a couple of studies that say what you want them to say, chief.

PLEASE go get an undergraduate degree ASAP.

[StopGMO]

Sleepy is like batigol47- "it's the sum of all of the GOOD studies not a couple of studies that say what you want them to say"

Coward. Afraid to answer & lying in his excuses. I don't want him to present studies saying what I want. I want him to post 2 best supporting his position on vaccines/autism. By the way sleepy... what is your position on autism's cause? Genetics, changing diagnoses, maybe you have some new Big Pharma lie to trot out

Why don't shills simply tell the truth?

[sleepcity]

@StopGMO "Sleepy is like batigol47- "it's the sum of all of the GOOD studies not a couple of studies that say what you want them to say""

For most people with minimal science education this concept is easily understood.

I don't have a "position" on autism because it's NOT a matter of belief, it's a matter of what the evidence demonstrates. Why don't you TAKE SOME INTRODUCTORY CLASSES in biology if you REALLY are so interested? Or are you like Jenny McCarthy...University of Google "student"?

[golcynski]

@morepuppies I created a Facebok page, search FB for Twins Vaccine Safety, once there become a fan. The idea is that Twins will get staggered vaccines at different times to look for side effects or one gets the shot and other doesn't. We'll get to the bottom of Autism, Allergies, SIDS etc.

[sleepcity]

@morepuppies You are clearly a conspiracy theorist who doesn't know how to evaluate evidence or reason rationally. Conversation over.

[morepuppies]

But the point of disclosure is that we can never know what our true motives are, and that the consumer has the right to ALL information so that he can make a decision that is in his own best interest.

You and Offit may think money has nothing to do with it, but if I do, then I have the right to know if money/status/power/a date with a hot chick is a potential ulterior motive for giving X advice.

With holding such information is defrauding the public of their right to informed consent.

[ronalddep]

There will always be a perceived conflict of interest, with any product or service. It's insulting to people who dedicate their lives' work to helping people only to be accused of being in it for the profit. Who better to get the correct information about vaccines then from someone who actually created one.

[morepuppies]

I am in no way bothered by insulting Offit, AAP/David Tayloe or ECBT. I blog at adventures in autism, and for the last five years I have been writing to and writing about these people/groups. I have interviewed Offit.

After five years of watching parent groups make good faith efforts to communicate and work with these people, it is absolutely clear that they are not earnest or honest. They are constantly being caught lying.

Take a look at my blog, see all of their shenanigans for yourself.

[morepuppies]

"Who better to get the correct information about vaccines then from someone who actually created one."

And who better to be a movie critic than a movie producer? Restaurant owners should also be food critics? No.

Either you can be involved in the production of a product, or you can be an objective critic/evaluator. Someone who tries to be both makes himself ridiculous.

Offit is a joke because he actually thinks that he can be both and be credible.

Listening to him is foolish.

[ronalddep]

SO WHAT!! This is a supreme example of irresponsible journalism. The only thing that this piece will accomplish is to scare parents into not vaccinating and lead to unnecesary deaths.

[morepuppies]

What this accomplishes is that it gives parents informed consent. It lets them know what sources are trustworthy and uncompromised, and which might have ulterior motives. Profit motives. Ego motives.

Motives other than actually evaluating the research behind vaccine safety and efficacy.

Parents should know that vaccine injury exists, and they need to educate themselves on it. Not just take the word of people pretending to be objective while on the Pharma payroll.

[nickorow]

Something ingested by human being's causes autism. At least give me a thumbs up if you agree. Whether it is vaccines or something else, at least give me that. My son is 2 years old and BECAME autistic after turning a year old. He was communicating with us through facial expressions, eye contact and a few words. He now does not speak and has very limited eye contact. He has extensive therapy and is slowly progressing. Do you think autism is a birth defect? I beg to differ.

[doomsday800]

dude its a birth defect you dont matter cuz your not a doctor or a scientist

[soblessed12]

This guy is a sick wacko, baby killer, it's all about the money for him!!!!!!!!!!! DON"T VACCINATE!

[doomsday800]

ya get sick and die instead

[VictorRovial]

Hey now, I'm trying to have a friendly conversation here. I'm not trying to invalidate you concerns, I'm just giving you data and my opinion. Its good to be skeptical of what people tell you. There are many situations where a person can manifest similar symptoms that is not the actual disease. A good example is that, back in the 90's, severe aspergers was often mistaken for schizophrenia, simply because they exhibited similar compulsive habits.

[VictorRovial]

I don't think its intentional deception, its simply that the docs who diagnosed her felt her symptoms didn't line up with Autism enough to be called that, but for the sake of discussion said Autism-like so people would have a general understanding of what her behavior was similar to.

[morepuppies]

Victor, Hannah Poling is diagnosed with full syndrome autism. Her father was a Johns Hopkins Neurologist. Journal of Child Neurology published a paper on her.

Journal of Child Neurology Vol. 21, No. 2, 170-172 (2006) Developmental Regression and Mitochondrial Dysfunction in a Child With Autism

Hannah has autism. Full autism.

So why are the people reading the decision, like you and other docs, under the impression that she does not? because HHS makes it sound that way.

See the problem?

[morepuppies]

Please take some time to look at my video on the Poling decision and Julie Gerberding's admission that vaccines can cause autism.

It addresses many of the points that you are making here.

Further, Jon Poling just addressed the Maine CDC on vaccine/autism causation and video of the conference will be available online in the next week or so. I will send you a link to that as well.

[morepuppies]

Oh no... no offense taken and hopefully none given (see my good comments/questions note earlier)

Please feel free to be skeptical.

I am just calling shenanigans on HHS for their BS public stance. (not you)

Diagnostic substitution DOES exist in autism, there is just not enough of it to account for the 6000% increase in autism dx since the 1970s.

Leo Kanner could only find 11 cases in the 1940s. Where were the 1 in 150 kids who were not being diagnosed with it?

And why none before then?

[VictorRovial]

Medical school is quit thorough, having several doctors in my family gives my what I feel to be a reasobly astute understanding of just how well informed most of them are. I do know that the government openly aknowledges that vaccination is neither 100% effective nor without risk, indeed, a vaccinated person will somtimes develop the symptoms of the disease they are being inoculated against. I rememer the lanuage of the case law I read being, "autism-like symptoms" in the description.

[VictorRovial]

Secondly, I do not think that one can make a case that Autism rates are increasing. I believe it is a case of proper diagnosis. With a disease as variable as autism with literally dozens of subcategories, many of them added within the last decade, it is difficult to make a statement like epidemic at this early date. Now obviously I cannot speak to the experience you have had with the pediatricians you mentioned, but I personally have not encountered any doctor like that.

[morepuppies]

In January. UC Davis Mind Institute proved that the increase in California was real, and that diagnostic substitution or expanding diagnostic criteria or better recognition could account for the dramatic rise in reported cases.

I will just send you the links to your you tube account.

All your points and questions are good ones, and there are good answers for them.

But unfortunately this format is crappy at dealing with such a complicated subject.

[morepuppies]

Also... make sure you take a look at the HHS Vaccine Injury Compensation Table. "Encephalopathy" is listed as an injury from DTaP and MMR. Symptoms in 18 month old are:

1. Loss of eye contact

2. Not responding to stimuli except for loud shouts

3. Seems disconnected from world around them.

THAT is a description of a kid with autism

THAT was a description of my son after his DTaP shot for which he was diagnosed with "autism".

See the problem?

HHS won't explain the difference between them.

[morepuppies]

Well if you can get your family/docs to answer some questions I would be obliged.

Like what is the difference between "autism" and "autism like symptoms"? Hannah Poling only had one regression into "autism like symptoms" for which she was diagnosed with "autism".

It is the same thing.

And if it is something distinct, what is this "autism like syndrome" that is not "autism"?

How many kids who were diagnosed with "autism" after shots actually have what Hannah has?

It is just BS.

[VictorRovial]

What about the most recent supreme court ruling on the matter? Some scientist being bought off I might believe, but the fact that the court came to that decision is indicative of the greater consensus within the medical community that the evidence for mercury being a trigger of autism is slim.

[morepuppies]

The Supreme Court has never ruled on this. I think you mean the vaccine court.

They have issued contradictory rulings on this. 10 cases have paid autism families from the vaccine court, three of those families have gone public.

Three cases were lost by families.

In one of the three cases the court said that MMR could not cause autism. 10 days later, in the Banks case, it ruled that MMR caused his autism.

I wrote a piece on this that was run on Utah Stores. Will post on my blog.

[morepuppies]

And this isn't really so much about docs being bought off, but about docs being in denial. If vaccines are implecated in the autism epidemic, setting aside all of the billions that would have to be paid to provide care and treatment for hundreds of thousands of kids, think of the very ugly realty that pediatricians would have to face.

How would you like to find out that kids you spend your life trying to serve, you were actually giving brain damage? When I went to my own peds they flipped out

[morepuppies]

They didn't want to know about the evidence I was finding, and would not even read the cautions and adverse reactions on the vaccine package inserts that I brought to them to read. FOR THE SHOTS THEY WERE ADMINISTERING!

The denial is huge, and when docs actually start listening to us and looking at the evidence, they see that we have lots of good points and are coming over to our side. That "consensus" is starting to fall apart.

Check my blog post on the Maine CDC Conference on Autism.

[morepuppies]

UPDATE:  Some autism writers went through the CHOP compensation guidelines to see how much Offit likely made from the sale of the Rotavirus vaccine.

According to their estimates, his share was likely somewhere between 29 million and 55 million dollars.

Offit will not share how much. Will post this in the description.

[VictorRovial]

Does the poster of the video believe that it is the mercury in the vaccine that causes the environmental trigger for people genetically predisposed to autism? Because I think that is a seperate discussion from whether this or that scientist was accepting bribes.

[morepuppies]

The poster of this video believes that Hg is likely ONE of the components that is a trigger (but not the only one.)

... and yes that is a different discussion than whether or not AAP/CDC/ECBT/Offit are biased or even corrupt.

But until we face the fact that those who are most vocal in their claims that vaccines are not associated with autism are not unbiased, objective parties, that conversation can't get started.

'Cause CDC/Offit/AAP/ECBT keep saying, no association discussion over, move on.

[VictorRovial]

Look. Autism is a genetic disorder, just like down syndrome, and a ton of other conditions. Its not pharmacuticals, or the government, or crooked doctors. It is your own messed up genes. Face it and grow up.

Vaccines are the single best thing that ever happened to modern medicine, exept perhaps the idea of toilets. Cause sewers have taking a dump in a bucket and tossing it out the window beat by a mile.

[morepuppies]

You do realize that even the CDC admits that autism has environmental causes right?

No one taken seriously in the autism debate claims that is purely a genetic disease.

Because there is no such thing as an environmental epidemic.  And UC Davis proved in Jan that the epidemic is real, and not just a difference in counting cases.

Genetic vulnerability, environmental trigger.

Not at all like Downs Syndrome.

[VictorRovial]

Maybe you minunderstood me, I came here to make a point about how awesome toilets are. I LOVE TOILETS!!

[morepuppies]

Oh! Well then never mind.

Clearly toilets are awsome. Terribly sorry for the misunderstanding.

[yuurei8]

3) The report singled Dr. Offit out for questionable voting as a member of the Advisory Committee (ACIP) affiliated with CDC that adds new vaccines to the vaccine schedule. The report stated, Dr. Offit began his tenure on ACIP in October of 1998. He voted yes three times, including voting for the inclusion of the rotavirus vaccine in the VFC program. Dr. Offit abstained from voting on the ACIPs rescission of the recommendation of the rotavirus vaccine for routine use.

[yuurei8]

2) The report focused on the introduction of the Rotavirus vaccine called Rotashield in the late 1990s. The report stated, A little more than one year after the RotaShield rotavirus vaccine was licensed by the Food and Drug Administration as a safe and effective vaccine, it was removed from the market due to adverse events. More than 100 cases of severe bowel obstruction, or intussusception, were reported in children who had received the vaccine.

[yuurei8]

1) In August 2000, the Committee on Government Reform of the US Congress issued a highly critical document called Conflict of Interest in Vaccine Policy Making. Dr. Offit was reprimanded by Congress and his actions were a primary focus of the report.

[cybeavertoo]

as vaccines r not harmful in his own words, mr Offit should take those 10.000 vaccinations himself at once. Or give them in those doses to his own children. That man is a fraud if he doesnt, like most vaccin-defenders that refuse to discus the real stories and processes but can only hide themselves behind numbers and statistics. But in the real world there r no numbers and stats, but real people that wont fit the precious stats. Take them mr Offit! 5000 at once is ok with me too.

[morepuppies]

I did the math.

100,000 vaccines is about 13 gallons of vaccine.

Offit is just spouting nonsense.

[cybeavertoo]

well he said 10.000 vaccines..but still. Offit is a poisonmingler , and wherever u go provaccinators take him as a serious partner in their defence. Together they hide behind a wall of engineered statistics and fraudulous claims like this one. To me these people r foul souls of ignorance.

[morepuppies]

At first he said 10,000, then he upped it to 100,000 in 2005. I wrote to him and asked him for a correction, because I assumed the whole thing was a misprint. He replied, "The figure of 100,000 is correct, and probably a little conservative."

[cybeavertoo]

really? well.. he deserves them all!

[golcynski]

Offit is a fraud. Plus the BIG pharma has web robots that constantly scan the web for discussions on vaccines and point those websites to Big Pharma pro vaccine employees.

Ever wonder why an anti vaccine discussion has someone right away with facts and figures to support the "greater good"

[yuurei8]

Even the video here pimping his book only allows pre-approved comments. Thats why all these poor people who's kids have autism are praising him. What is Columbia University Press afraid of...the truth?

[StarbucksCoffeeFreak]

Well, duh! This isn't news to me at all! Good for Katie and Sharyl for bringing this to the rest of the nation.

No industry that involves health and decisions about people's lives should be policing itself or possess such conflicts of interest. Period.

[batigol47]

So you do not think that the Tobacco industry should be forced to make contributions to the National Cancer Institute or Programs for anti smoking?

[belleofbelfast]

This is shocking, but hardly surprising. We deserve to know the truth. Even more, our children deserve it.

[jackycat3]

So glad to see the media finally exposing Dr. Offit for the weasle that he is. Why more parents are not demanding to know the truth is beyond me? It seems some parents concern themselves more with what clothing their children wear than with their health. Unfortunately, they find out the hard way.

[FynFlyte]

Thanks for posting this. Vaccines are poison and the people selling them are criminals.

[golcynski]

Agreed, but brainwashed people don't even question them, i WAS one of those people, before my son GOT AUTISM.

[FynFlyte]

Sorry about your son. I got polio from the vaccine many years ago. I never vaccinated my own children and they are very healthy.