Hello, I'm a bit confused. I was always under the impression that there was a 4/3 and then a micro 4/3. I thought Olympus had some 4/3 model cameras, then they and Panasonic came out with the micro 4/3 sensor. I thought the af100 was micro 4/3. I can't use this video unless I know the difference or if there is a difference. I hope someone can understand what I'm asking. Is the 4/3 represented here micro 4/3, or regular 4/3, or are they both the same?
Oh my... you DSLR users just don't get it... Micro Four Thirds is much better just by the fact you can get the same IQ you get from a DSLR without carrying a bulky, heavy camera and looking like a retarded...
KatiushaVN4 and JoqBird, You believe that Panasonic engineers don't know what they're doing? Right - so I guess you would know how to create a better camera? People like you prove one thing - the Internet is a place where IDIOTS can say anything they want. Go home to your mommy you punks - you have no idea what you're talking about.
In all reviews i hear (or read) about aliasing, but for me the partial exposure issues are very very important. I am into filming storms and lightning. With my canon 7d the partial exposure is horrible :( Do you have any idea iff the af100 will show the same problem when i will film lightning?
I'd like to know the pixel density of the 4/3 sensor. Also, respectfully, PNZBroadcast, I thought it's worth pointing out the Canon 5D Mark II uses a 24mm x 36mm sensor for movies, and has a very huge pixel density. Yes, I'm 5Dcentric, this video mentioned the 4/3 sensor being "much closer in size to a 35mm frame size than are the full frame sensors used in many digital still cameras." Full frame by definition, is 24mm x 36mm. Large pixel density means low light sensitivity and less noise.
Wait, is no one else just thinking that all this BS about sensor the panosonic's sensor being a better size than that of a dslr is completely missing every aps-c sensor based dslr. Surely aps-c is even closer to a conventional 35mm movie reel.
@2RandomStudios That's hardly the point. They make out that the 4/3 sensor is superior to other formats almost solely on the merit that it's a similar size to a frame of 35mm motion picture film. By that standard, APS-C is better. There are benefits to the 4/3 sensor, but they fail to explain them. Another point is that APS-C would not suffer a crop factor when used with lenses designed for 35mm motion picture film. So in other words, build a purpose built video camera around a APS-C sensor.
As your video does point out very well however 35mm still lenses project an image much larger than would be captured by 35mm motion picture film, in fact, it can project an image even larger than a 35mm still frame of film!
Bottom line is peopel shooting "video" on a DLSR's are not getting the "same" or "true" DOF you would get shooting a 35mm academy frame. 4/3 is in fact MUCH closer but at the end of the day the differences are subtle and nobody can tell what sensor size made what DOF.
PNZ - first of all it is impossible for final images to be the same "size" IF the distance from the lens to subject is kept the same and you are using different format sizes. A smaller format size right away makes the image magnified by a factor. For example the Canon 7D has a factor of x1.6. That means a 50mm lens becomes telephoto turning into a 75mm lens. To keep image size the same, you would have to back up significantly to maintain the same subject size.
ezzyoussef why would you think that? This is a motion camera not a DSLR and in motion world S35 is the standard in film cameras. This is where the AF100 needs to be compared, not with FF stills cameras.
The reality is for video the 5DmkII makes focus pulling through scenes a PITA. The larger sensor has a larger circle of confusion (approx 0.029mm), where S35 is closer to 0.020mm (approx) and M4/3 is about 0.016mm. Much closer to S35.
"The DOF is determined by the camera-to-subject distance, the lens focal length, the lens f-number, and the format size or circle of confusion criterion."
"When the “same picture” is taken in two different format sizes from the same distance at the same f-number with lenses that give the same angle of view, and the final images are the same size, the smaller format has greater DOF."
Panasonic, you should know that sensor size has no direct bearing on Depth of Field. You should make a video to clear up that misconception. With sound.
@AETrainingDavid97 It's not the sensor size that alters the Depth of Field, it's the assumed change in Circle of Confusion. As the two usually go hand-in-hand it may seem like I'm being a pedant, but saying it's the sensor size fuels the misconception that there's some sort of primary optical principle that means larger sensors yield more background blur.
@antoinevideoblog Sorry, but it just plain doesn't. Aperture, focal distance and Circle of Confusion dictate Depth of Field. It's assumed the Circle of Confusion will change with the sensor size, but it's not always the case.
If you're speaking casually, fine, use "sensor size" as shorthand; but if you're aiming to be technically accurate you need to be more precise.
@piphotchkiss Bare with me on this, so why does my camcorder (with a 29mm sensor, close to 35mm equivalent) not produce any kind of depth of field, compared to my 5D Mark II when both cameras are on the same focal length?
@antoinevideoblog I'd guess it's because in order to keep your framing the same you are moving further away from the subject with the APS-H camera, focusing at a further distance and thus increasing Depth of Field.
The trouble here is that when Panasonic suggest sensor size dictates DoF, people take it verbatim. If they made it clear that it's aperture, circle of confusion and focal distance that dictate DoF there'd be a significant drop in the amount of horseshit spoken on the subject.
@piphotchkiss well sensor says does dictate circle of confusion. The larger the sensor, the larger the circle of confusion.
But for the purposes of a camera manufacturer who produces a camera that isnt fixed lens, its the only part of the equation they have any control over. So yes, their statement makes perfect sense.
Not sure about your point below - as sensor size does absolutely effect the circle of confusion. As you rightly state so does aperture and focal length.
@NoelCJEvans Only if the output resolution is the same. Technically, switching from 1080p to 720p alters the Circle of Confusion and thus the Depth of Field. The sensor size hasn't changed, however.
I can appreciate why Panasonic have phrased it as "sensor size", but it misleads those who are trying to learn the science behind it.
@piphotchkiss - 480i, 1080p, 720p, VHS or any resolution of the recording format has absolutely nothing to do with DOF. DOF is a property of the lens combined with f-stop and distance to the subject. Think of it that a lens projects an image onto a film plane or in this case digital sensor. The resolution it's recorded in is irrelevant.
@hingsberg Well, if you've done it once you'll appreciate that zooming in alters what appears to be in focus. Altering resolution works by the same principle. Look up 'Circle of Confusion' for more detail.
@piphotchkiss - zooming in or out alters what's in focus only if your lens is not back focused correctly, or if it has that option at all. In an ideal world, every lens made without a back focus should stay in focus the entire range of the zoom (wide to long), but sadly they get dropped or the weather adjusts the glass so this isn't always the case. Circle of confusion has nothing to do with zoom, but actual distance from the sensor to the subject.
@brecfhelt I didn't mean zooming with the lens, I meant zooming in Photoshop or on the back of your camera when reviewing a photo you've just taken. That alters CoC because it changes the 'enlargement factor'.
@antoinevideoblog if you google "sensor size dof" you'll probably find a bit more info. from what i understand sensor size it doesn't directly affect dof, but rather the "circle of confusion" aspect of dof. i'm a little too amateur to explain that any better :P as far as the cam corder's dof, i think it's simply the lens, most prosumer/consumer cameras use a general purpose cheap lens with deep dof. the 5d can use custom glass (primes and zooms) with shallow dof.
Never mind I found the answer.
OracleWorldOrder 6 days ago
Hello, I'm a bit confused. I was always under the impression that there was a 4/3 and then a micro 4/3. I thought Olympus had some 4/3 model cameras, then they and Panasonic came out with the micro 4/3 sensor. I thought the af100 was micro 4/3. I can't use this video unless I know the difference or if there is a difference. I hope someone can understand what I'm asking. Is the 4/3 represented here micro 4/3, or regular 4/3, or are they both the same?
OracleWorldOrder 6 days ago
Oh my... you DSLR users just don't get it... Micro Four Thirds is much better just by the fact you can get the same IQ you get from a DSLR without carrying a bulky, heavy camera and looking like a retarded...
alexmottram07 1 month ago
So then the APS-C sensors on Nikon and Canon DSLRs are actually larger than standard motion picture film?
trackingtim 1 month ago
I dont get it. How can both the video and still 35mm be called 35mm if their different sizes??
simon44 2 months ago
@simon44 35mm film runs horizontally in stills cameras and vertically in motion picture cameras.
Punkanaut 1 month ago
yea retards think they can fools us. 4/3 is for suckers that dont know anything abt cameras.. APS-C NEX 5n #FTW
ultraret 2 months ago
@ultraret The APS-C NEX 5n is a 4/3 camera.
simon44 2 months ago
Thank you, now I understand... I will order a canon 5 d mk 2 by tomorrow.
TheSonoranscape 2 months ago 2
Great video keep up the good work.
NewAgeDirector 3 months ago
KatiushaVN4 and JoqBird, You believe that Panasonic engineers don't know what they're doing? Right - so I guess you would know how to create a better camera? People like you prove one thing - the Internet is a place where IDIOTS can say anything they want. Go home to your mommy you punks - you have no idea what you're talking about.
typhoolin 5 months ago
Panasonic sucks
KatiushaVN4 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
in search for an answer..
In all reviews i hear (or read) about aliasing, but for me the partial exposure issues are very very important. I am into filming storms and lightning. With my canon 7d the partial exposure is horrible :( Do you have any idea iff the af100 will show the same problem when i will film lightning?
pyropix 7 months ago
I'd like to know the pixel density of the 4/3 sensor. Also, respectfully, PNZBroadcast, I thought it's worth pointing out the Canon 5D Mark II uses a 24mm x 36mm sensor for movies, and has a very huge pixel density. Yes, I'm 5Dcentric, this video mentioned the 4/3 sensor being "much closer in size to a 35mm frame size than are the full frame sensors used in many digital still cameras." Full frame by definition, is 24mm x 36mm. Large pixel density means low light sensitivity and less noise.
BuffoonCinema 8 months ago
thank you, your answer is late, i have already bought AF101+14-140mm Lumix
imperatorMher 10 months ago
Wait, is no one else just thinking that all this BS about sensor the panosonic's sensor being a better size than that of a dslr is completely missing every aps-c sensor based dslr. Surely aps-c is even closer to a conventional 35mm movie reel.
bobobobit 1 year ago 8
@bobobobit Sure aps-c is closer, but DSLRs are not made to be video cameras.
2RandomStudios 5 months ago
@2RandomStudios That's hardly the point. They make out that the 4/3 sensor is superior to other formats almost solely on the merit that it's a similar size to a frame of 35mm motion picture film. By that standard, APS-C is better. There are benefits to the 4/3 sensor, but they fail to explain them. Another point is that APS-C would not suffer a crop factor when used with lenses designed for 35mm motion picture film. So in other words, build a purpose built video camera around a APS-C sensor.
bobobobit 4 months ago
Comment removed
thehalflifedude 3 months ago
@bobobobit
I retract that wholeheartedly, I did not get to the bullshit "much closer than found in many DSLR's" part... My bad.
thehalflifedude 3 months ago
is this camera has Zoom control? does anybody know it???
imperatorMher 1 year ago
@imperatorMher yes the camera has auto focus/zoom control for lenses that support it
shftleft 10 months ago
As your video does point out very well however 35mm still lenses project an image much larger than would be captured by 35mm motion picture film, in fact, it can project an image even larger than a 35mm still frame of film!
Bottom line is peopel shooting "video" on a DLSR's are not getting the "same" or "true" DOF you would get shooting a 35mm academy frame. 4/3 is in fact MUCH closer but at the end of the day the differences are subtle and nobody can tell what sensor size made what DOF.
hingsberg 1 year ago
PNZ - first of all it is impossible for final images to be the same "size" IF the distance from the lens to subject is kept the same and you are using different format sizes. A smaller format size right away makes the image magnified by a factor. For example the Canon 7D has a factor of x1.6. That means a 50mm lens becomes telephoto turning into a 75mm lens. To keep image size the same, you would have to back up significantly to maintain the same subject size.
hingsberg 1 year ago
This video is BS on so many levels.
JogBird 1 year ago 7
ezzyoussef why would you think that? This is a motion camera not a DSLR and in motion world S35 is the standard in film cameras. This is where the AF100 needs to be compared, not with FF stills cameras.
The reality is for video the 5DmkII makes focus pulling through scenes a PITA. The larger sensor has a larger circle of confusion (approx 0.029mm), where S35 is closer to 0.020mm (approx) and M4/3 is about 0.016mm. Much closer to S35.
NoelCJEvans 1 year ago
Well Thanks for this video. It clarified many things to me.
However I am a little bit disapointed: I tought that AF-100 had the same DOF of the Canon 5D Mark II which use a 24x36 sensor.
ezzyoussef 1 year ago
"The DOF is determined by the camera-to-subject distance, the lens focal length, the lens f-number, and the format size or circle of confusion criterion."
"When the “same picture” is taken in two different format sizes from the same distance at the same f-number with lenses that give the same angle of view, and the final images are the same size, the smaller format has greater DOF."
PNZBroadcast 1 year ago
@PNZBroadcast That is correct. So, the bigger sensor can give you a narrower DOF.
ahervert551 5 months ago
Sorry Rick, you aren't selling the product without sound
alanbstard4 1 year ago
Panasonic, you should know that sensor size has no direct bearing on Depth of Field. You should make a video to clear up that misconception. With sound.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss It has some effect.
It depends on the sensor. It isn't a misconception, just sometimes said to be stronger than it actually is.
AETrainingDavid97 1 year ago
@AETrainingDavid97 It's not the sensor size that alters the Depth of Field, it's the assumed change in Circle of Confusion. As the two usually go hand-in-hand it may seem like I'm being a pedant, but saying it's the sensor size fuels the misconception that there's some sort of primary optical principle that means larger sensors yield more background blur.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss it does to some aspect. Though lens aperture is the main thing that changes DOF
antoinevideoblog 1 year ago
@antoinevideoblog Sorry, but it just plain doesn't. Aperture, focal distance and Circle of Confusion dictate Depth of Field. It's assumed the Circle of Confusion will change with the sensor size, but it's not always the case.
If you're speaking casually, fine, use "sensor size" as shorthand; but if you're aiming to be technically accurate you need to be more precise.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss Bare with me on this, so why does my camcorder (with a 29mm sensor, close to 35mm equivalent) not produce any kind of depth of field, compared to my 5D Mark II when both cameras are on the same focal length?
antoinevideoblog 1 year ago
@antoinevideoblog I'd guess it's because in order to keep your framing the same you are moving further away from the subject with the APS-H camera, focusing at a further distance and thus increasing Depth of Field.
The trouble here is that when Panasonic suggest sensor size dictates DoF, people take it verbatim. If they made it clear that it's aperture, circle of confusion and focal distance that dictate DoF there'd be a significant drop in the amount of horseshit spoken on the subject.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss well sensor says does dictate circle of confusion. The larger the sensor, the larger the circle of confusion.
But for the purposes of a camera manufacturer who produces a camera that isnt fixed lens, its the only part of the equation they have any control over. So yes, their statement makes perfect sense.
Not sure about your point below - as sensor size does absolutely effect the circle of confusion. As you rightly state so does aperture and focal length.
NoelCJEvans 1 year ago
@NoelCJEvans Only if the output resolution is the same. Technically, switching from 1080p to 720p alters the Circle of Confusion and thus the Depth of Field. The sensor size hasn't changed, however.
I can appreciate why Panasonic have phrased it as "sensor size", but it misleads those who are trying to learn the science behind it.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss - 480i, 1080p, 720p, VHS or any resolution of the recording format has absolutely nothing to do with DOF. DOF is a property of the lens combined with f-stop and distance to the subject. Think of it that a lens projects an image onto a film plane or in this case digital sensor. The resolution it's recorded in is irrelevant.
hingsberg 1 year ago
@hingsberg Have you ever taken a photo and then when reviewing it on the camera's screen had to zoom in to check focus?
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss - I learn to trust my camera and zoom into check a still photo seldomly.
hingsberg 1 year ago
@hingsberg Well, if you've done it once you'll appreciate that zooming in alters what appears to be in focus. Altering resolution works by the same principle. Look up 'Circle of Confusion' for more detail.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss - Sorry buddy but focus and DOF are two different subjects.
hingsberg 1 year ago
@hingsberg You couldn't have made a more factually incorrect statement than that.
piphotchkiss 1 year ago
@piphotchkiss - zooming in or out alters what's in focus only if your lens is not back focused correctly, or if it has that option at all. In an ideal world, every lens made without a back focus should stay in focus the entire range of the zoom (wide to long), but sadly they get dropped or the weather adjusts the glass so this isn't always the case. Circle of confusion has nothing to do with zoom, but actual distance from the sensor to the subject.
brecfhelt 9 months ago
@brecfhelt I didn't mean zooming with the lens, I meant zooming in Photoshop or on the back of your camera when reviewing a photo you've just taken. That alters CoC because it changes the 'enlargement factor'.
piphotchkiss 9 months ago
@antoinevideoblog if you google "sensor size dof" you'll probably find a bit more info. from what i understand sensor size it doesn't directly affect dof, but rather the "circle of confusion" aspect of dof. i'm a little too amateur to explain that any better :P as far as the cam corder's dof, i think it's simply the lens, most prosumer/consumer cameras use a general purpose cheap lens with deep dof. the 5d can use custom glass (primes and zooms) with shallow dof.
WinterXL 1 year ago