THE IRREDUCIBLE COMPLEXITY OF ORGANS (More Creationist Lies)

[atchisrj1]

Why are so many Creationists scared of Evolution? Evolution could be the how as opposed to the why. If you want to believe that a creator started everything and then let nature do it's thing, that would still allow for a creator. I'm an non-theist, I have no problem with a person having faith I have a problem with a person disregarding good science in favor of religion.

[DrMontague]

@atchisrj1 Evolution shows the holy scriptures to be wrong about their version of the creation. The bible is meant to be the word of god. If it's wrong then the whole notion of there being a creator is discredited. So god is either a liar, a piss poor communicator who couldn't get a job at a call centre, or doesn't exist.

[atchisrj1]

@DrMontague I think that was what I was getting at. Thanks.

[HEC01]

@atchisrj1 excuse me, creationist scared of evolution? so what are you saying, that nothjing is impossible with evolution? That you guys are forcing ID advocates disprove so-stories of evolution? and then criticize ID proponents for not having enough imagination?

[atchisrj1]

@HEC01 Huh? Can you rephrase that?

[MugiwaraNLD]

[satire]

Ow boy! Evolution is WRONG! Wow, the eye, the quotes of Darwin, it all adds up. This guy is right for the full 100%!!!! Get it peer reviewed and receive your noble price!

[/satire]

Well, this guy actually never actually did the research. And is misquoting Darwin, I suggest this guy, read on! Please! Although I think that disproving evolution would get you a noble price, why hasn't anybody done it? Go to the scientists, let they see this nonsense for what it really is. And discard it.

[ShiNiGaMiNoBanKai]

And what did he say at the end? Allah? Well, that's more that enough to prove that they are just trying to deny evolution again. Evelution is allready accepted and taught in schools. Give up allready, such lame stories about some eye complexity that you hardly can read won't work. Geez, fanatics.

[celticshiva]

He said right at the beginning that the studies he was talking about are done by a muslim intellectual, so him reffering to Allah at the end was consistant.

The human eye, however, is not irreduceably complex. There is a video on youtube (and perhaps more than one) that shows the stages an eye can go through to become like our eyes are today.

[ShiNiGaMiNoBanKai]

Again gay religious crap. YOU FAIL LOSER, STOP READING UR GAY SPEACH FROM A TV SCREEN! xD

[ShiNiGaMiNoBanKai]

Allah? What the fuck? You muslim bastard, you didn't prove a shit. Ok, so what he did is explain how the eye functions, then read some darvin stuff from a tv that was standing in front of him. And the text on that tv was written by another religious fanatic like YOU, you ugly bastard. You did NOT prove a shit, give up allready, you are wrong. You just keep wasting peoples time with your gay proofs that evolution is wrong, by you FAIL. So shut the fuck up allready.

[naurbrannon]

lol who's this guy? I can barely understand what he says :/

[ancalites]

creationists are the best comedians

[Funaru]

This guy truly is a crappy moderator.

There are cameras and even eyes in nature (i.e. of hawks) which are far better than human eyes. plus, not so well developed eyes of course CAN function! Also Darwin is quouted incompletely. All the classic errors of creationism in one vid, nice job! The techno music in the backround gives it all an ironic touch, though.

[DrMontague]

They deliberately misquote Darwin because they are lying creationist scumbags.

[KeyManDan]

Ignorant propaganda...

[Shmeurung9]

HMMM high def cameras, digitally enhanced images are worse than the eye?

[sugarcuberyan]

to extend, the eye has not always been this complex. Mutations made it better and better gradually, adding these components in our case. many species have evovled to lose the eye since it was not needed.

[sugarcuberyan]

what an idiot. The human eye has been explained through evoltuion in thousands of textbooks. I'd just like to back up the comment below mine.

The eye began in the distant past as a cell which mutated causing changes in light intesity to produce fluxuations of ions in this cell.

You are correct that the human eye would not function without one of the essential components, and you are correct in that sense.

And photons are a theoretical molecule used to explain the behaviour of light. btw

[MAGXpyder]

light sensitive cells -> more light sensitive cells -> increasingly sensitive cells ...

...-> rods, cones etc...lens...-> human eye

[MaxSafeheaD]

Mr. Montague, you should have included a critique of the creationist lies!

Otherwise the video is pointless and perhaps even counter productive.

[DrMontague]

I have click on my video response above. However I might merge both vids together.

[BaconFiend86]

where are the rod and cone cells??? its not even worth arguing about this if he cant get his science right.

[norcofreerider604]

Lol, just by saying that we are "the product of coincidences" shows that he doesn't understand natural selection or evolution.

[Athaeus]

Exactly AlmightScoop. You could also redirect people to the lecture by Richard Dawkins where he explains very clearly how the eye has formed step-by-step, and how many different types of eyes there is in nature, due to the different steps natural selection has taken to form the eye that works the best.

[AlmightScoop]

patch of a few photosensitive cells: can see light.

as above but lowered: the shadows of the wall on the edje give a direction of light source.

as above with a dome covering: now a circle of light can land on the cells, allowing more accurate direction

as above with a covering over the hole: protects the cells allowing them to become more sensitive

as above with shaped covering: now a lens which allows pictures to be seen

as above with muscles to move shaped covering: an eye than can focus.

[AlmightScoop]

each step gives NEW advantages. ie) it CAN evolve. Check out Nautillius, at step 3. Other examples exist of various stages exist too.

As for the complexity of molecular biology, its amazing what complexity can emerge from simple rules - search for 'Horizon BBC Artificial life'.

[ssj3jerome]

the eye thing:

the eye will still fubction if the lens is missing, you will just not be able to read a book with. but organics who had these ancient eyes didn't this image precision.

the very first "eyes" were actually just a couple of cells which were sensitive to light. you people need to understand evolution better, its not one succes after another, its a billion small changes over millions of years and some eventually are usefull and stay.

[bataviawillem22]

Is this guy for real.

[mindoversplatter]

Interesting how Muslim fundamentalists steal their arguments from Christan fundamentalists.

[creationismisstupid]

As always assumptions without evidence of what is said. That Arun Yahyah is NOT a scientist he is a kind of garden designer and a fundamentalist muslim.

[Re3iRtH]

As a medical student, I am ashamed for the profession that I will be joining that this guy is part of, whos arguments are just riddled with inaccuracies and lies, this guy has convinced me that people will say anything

[fatefinger]

He's probably just a liar. And he probably had/has nothing to do with what your going into. He just uses a title to increase his credibility to the stupid. Commom creationist tactic. I would see him as how kent hovind said he taught high school math for 15 years, he didn't.

[DrMontague]

You are correct. Every fuckin brain dead creationist who preaches science on YouTube claims to be a professor or Doctor in some dicipline. For fuck people who have only a few minor qualifications cringe at their blatant lying. In fact I might prove how thick creationists are by making a fake video myself and watch the arse hole creationists shower me with praises!

[fatefinger]

Do it. Sounds like a good idea and a way to discredit them even more.

[pikechris1]

the guy has convinced me. now im a creationist too! hehe

[pikechris1]

watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

only for creationist tools and people who are undecided. ken miller explains why there is no irreducible complexity in biology and why "intelligent" design is a no go. :)

[thebgbb]

The irony of the argument is the use of the word "falsify" when he wanted to use "disprove." The fact is, he IS falsifying the argument in order to disprove it, and that very fact is what makes his argument rubbish.

[DrMontague]

They present what we call Straw man argument.

i.e. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted

Quoting an opponent's words out of context -- i.e., choosing quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions.

Wikipedia

!

[DrMontague]

Creationists are fond of using such tactics. However, the term Straw man argument is just a polite way of calling creationist preachers lying scum.

[thebgbb]

Painful to watch.

[DrMontague]

Typical creationist Straw Man arguments. I another way of putting it. They are lying scumbags.

[yaerav]

Oh dear... all the false arguments, and out-of-context quotes are there again, aren't they. If only Darwin had known, he would have written a different first paragraph of the chapter in which he describes how the eye could gradually have evolved.

These people cling so much to their faith that science really does not interest them in the least- they just fear it.

[MrFacet]

Darwin continued directly after that quote. "... When it was first said that .. the world turned round, the common sense ... declared the doctrine false;... Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, [..inheritable..] then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, should not be considered as subversive of the theory."

[warbeck007]

All Stages of eye evolution exist today.From the snail to the Eagle.What is the point of a snail seeing like an Eagle or us for that matter. Do we need eyes to spot a mouse half a mile away and not focus on the food WE need.Eyes could be compared to the kneck of a Giraffe

[MrFacet]

Lol, all the arguments by authority in the first minute are so false. Modern literature: the ID book might have been a novel, as it is not peer reviewed nor publicised in proper scientific journals. All the sciences he quoted are not backed by detailed examples so VOID.

Then the eye: i think Charles Darwin in the same source even answers the riddle. This man should be very very ashamed of his low intellectual capacities.

[radiofan6872]

He is SO CLEARLY wrong that it's actually painful.

[berveiga]

Brain surgeon! Brain washer...

[DrMontague]

Well he certainly needs his brain washed as it's covered in shit.

[tellnet]

Brain surgeon .... ?

What educational establishment permitted so bereft an intellect to acquire such credentials...

... or, how much was he paid to lie ?

[warbeck007]

I think he said "I need a brain surgeon"

[tellnet]

warbeck007:

Ah ha...

[tellnet]

The morons even made a basic spelling error.......

Imagine... expecting credibility on a topic one cannot spell !!

IRREDUCIBLE ... NOT IrreducAble......

Idiots.

[warbeck007]

Had to watch again.He said without eye lids the eye will not function.Ever see a fish blink?Your turn?No don't bother.This stuff is desperation to keep a faith alive.They will evolve to belive the truth eventually.

[pikechris1]

or they will die off. the selective pressure will keep growing in the age of reason, thats more then certain. :)

[warbeck007]

A men.

[isgoanrain]

But your point is very valid DrMontague, some people... (like this man in the video) do make a belief turn into some horrible corrupt twisted idea that has so many loopholes it looks like a thing of swiss cheese! And

Erech01, i read it in my Anthropology book I'm currently studying at school, I could not give you a direct link to the quote, but my teacher told me that it is a true quote and not bent or anything so I'm sure I could find it for you if I look.

[DrMontague]

Please take on board folks that I re-uploaded this video as the lying creationists who originally uploaded this vid censor comments. I myself am a militant atheist and therefore a believer in evolutionary theory.

[DrMontague]

Click on the video response to see Dawkins explaining how the eye could evolve. The creationists are running scared, listen to the wanker's opening statement in this vid.

(Evolution)'is the most powerful ideology against religion today'.

The reason for this is that we are not all fuckin sheep, we are not prepared to blindly follow or take at face value the ancient texts.

[DrMontague]

Many of us now have independent thought which orthodox Muslims and other orthodox religions would dearly love to suppress. These twats would have you imprisoned or executed(if they had their way)for questioning their belief system.

[isgoanrain]

i appoligize dr.m, i misread your comment and took it as something else. And you're absolutely right, even though some people do not intend to brainwash or corrupt ones ideas on creation/evolution... most preachers become preachers because they believe in the bible and think its a great thing to teach to people, not to corrupt society.

[thkaal]

If this guy were true, eyes either work, or don't. Then what about color blindness? What about people who are nearsighted or farsighted? Who the hell is this moron who obviously can't see beyond his script?

[isgoanrain]

There is also a quote from Charles Darwin himself saying, no matter what theory is in belief, that there was an ultimate creator of some sort.

[DrMontague]

isgoanrain. I a militant atheist and therefore an evolutionist, I was talking about creationists. Whether or not someone has a psychological yearning to believe in a god is different to being a creationist. Many people believe in god but accept evolutionary theory and the bag bang.

[DrMontague]

Creationists preachers are lying scum who simply set out to lie and deceive gullible people in order to gain control of their minds. Someone in Germany was once very good at this type of propaganda.

[Erech01]

where did you get this quote from?? i have found no quote by him

[isgoanrain]

Ok now here's one for you Dr M., an eye needs many different parts which all need to be there at the same time to work. Although you are easily forgetting that evolution was a SLOW process which was slowly altering all genetic material for many years. This means the eye would evolve and gain new pieces slowly, the fully working eye didn't just appear on an eyeless animal.

[thkaal]

Exactly. You might want to do a search for the blind watchmaker. There are several videos on youtube from that show explaining how the eye evolved.

[Erech01]

yu do not need all the parts of a clock to tel the time, the pedulam would do, the only problem is that you need to keep watching it, so as you can see the idea of keeping time did not come in one big step of creating digital watches:P it wouldve started with something that must be watched

[ian9toes]

@isgoanrain Have a think about what you just said . First you say the eye needs many different parts to be there at the SAME TIME to work. Then you say they would've evolved slowly over many years. Why would natural selection select a half finished eye that is completely useless. The different kinds of eyes are not gradual enough. It's like taking a steam engine and assuming a worker making random errors could end up with an internal combustion engine. Evolution is pseudoscience.

[DrMontague]

@ian9toes You need to research evolutionary theory of the eye as it is as clear that as the noonday sun that you haven't done any serious research in this field. Research authoritative websites and keep away from the creationists websites who set out to lie and deceive.

[isgoanrain]

@ian9toes I can say with confidence.. If you don't believe in evolution, you simply don't understand it. Almost every biological discovery in the last 100 years has been because of our understanding of evolution.

[robbiethe3rd]

This makes me so angry, he claims to be a "medical doctor brain surgeon" (laughable, I'd say not) and then tries to claim the eye, which has been answered so many times before is irreducibly complex. I he did study the brain he should believe evolution as the human brain is such an elegant example.

[DrMontague]

They are bare faced liars. If for some reason they were a witness to a murder and lied to cover it up , they would be found guilty by a court for perverting the course of justice. This is why I call these type of people lowlife scum.

[JesusDisciple777]

all the best scientists accept this as truth. yes even stephen hawkings

[DrMontague]

JesusDisciple777. Fuck off you lying creationist brainless scumbag.

[hocobo]

listen: your church is completely FABRICATING all of this. try studying actual science.

[flyingdrake]

I love how people who try to use this argument always avoid talking about earlier itterations.

[blackwolf1272]

All this video proves is that 'islamic scientists' are even more mentally impotent than their christian counterparts - all they have done for the last millenium is copy and paste from honest scientists, distorting and plagiarizing for their own benefit.

[blackwolf1272]

Yahya is a fraud making millions off gullible, uneducated people by serving them comfortable lies. Just like the turkish muslim investment firms who robbed thousands of their last savings by claiming to be devout believers (as if that was a virtue). A muslim woman robbed by them actually said she would now sooner give her money to jews or atheists than other muslims.

[BayerLexan]

I never understand why they think the eye is so complex, it's not. Just some photo receptive cells, fuck, even plankton has that, oooh plankton that's like the most complex thing ever. Our eyes aren't even that good, we have to mentaly adjust the image to make it represent reality. What about optic illusions, that just plays on the faults of our eyes.

[siredward800]

In almost every video, they claim that in the scientific community, many scientists are abandoning evolution. They make it seem like there is this huge wave of evidence coming in, proving evolution wrong.

In the scientific community, almost no one believes in creation. Those who do, are stupid, and no one litsens to them.

[DrMontague]

Thanx. Notice the brainless arse holes don't comment here! They haven't got the balls. Because they are blatant liars! Creationists! They have all gone very very quiet!

[JustOneEarth]

Gotta love how they always bring up Darwin's reservations about the evolution of the eye, but then ignore the pages that immediately follow, in which he convincingly postulates the evolution of the eye. 0.o I think that quote gets thrown out so much as evidence against evolution that most of them aren't even aware of the passages that follow.

[tubeituped]

It makes you wonder... Do these people realy belive what they preach? If so.. HAVE FUN BEING DUMB! Ha. Ps. Who is Chauss Dauvin?

[iluvslayer]

wow, what an idiot. iwonder why these creationist always diverge themselves on the eye, something that all evolutionists (a term which i hate by the way, as it kind of implies that all some people evolve as though no one else is subsceptibal to evolution) know such a great deal about, as well as that one passage in darwin's book.

[pseudotruth]

According to the Irreducible Complexity of Organs, since he is talking bullshit, if the bull was removed, he would still be talking shit!

Likewise, if this guy's arsehole were removed, he would still be an arsehole!

[lordzombie]

love this stuff, big fan of kent hovind too, up on google, this guy has no personality though, at least hovind is funny, check out the beyond belief 2006 seminar like 8 hours of amzing thinkers talking about the biological basis for morality, religious fundamentalists are capitalizing on fear just like everyone else.

[Celtic1433]

Oh dear, it's another "god of the gaps" argument...

These argumants are so easily disproved (the flatworm example below is a good one!) it's almost laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

Keep up the good work doc...

Love.

[ofpfury]

It should be a crime to warp minds with this video malpractice. It is important to realize a portion of our population are keeping their sheep in the dark ages.

Maybe post a link to Dawkin's "Design and Designoid" lecture for those seeking enlightenment.

[gwaelin]

When I look at a car it seems to me to be irreducibly complex. I do understand though that most guys who have taken high school classes know all about all the different things under the hood of the car and how they all break down.

[anagloria40]

Just think of the millions of dollars believers give to churches to secure a place in "Heaven". They have to fight to keep faith in absurdities. That "doctor", in the video, is just another quack. Thanks Dr Montague for alerting us.

[Largo64]

The typical attitude of these people is, "If I can't understand it, nobody else can either. God did it." You don't look for enlightenment when you believe you already possess it.

[DrMontague]

They are blatant liars. If they weren't then they would have presented Dawkins powerful argument. Now Dawkins gave their view but they didn't give Dawkins's view. Therefore we have to conclude that they either haven't heard his argument, or that they have heard his argument but wont present it. If they are unaware of Dawkins's argument then this shows they are pig headed ignorant and should not be commenting on evolution theory.

[DrMontague]

If they do know Dawkins's  argument but wont present it, then it proves beyond doubt that creationists are Liars, Deceivers, Manipulators, Propagandists etc.

[molesniper666]

Wow. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[subach]

I suppose these guys would freak if they ever saw a flatworm. "What do you mean it has a simple photoreceptor, we all thought eyes were irreducibly complex" Ha the whole "theory" of creation outdone by a flatworm.

[EviTheFreak]

ROFL

[DrMontague]

This is yet another video that has been uploaded by creationists. Again they tell lies, half truths, mix lies with truth, and censor comments. I have re-uploaded this video to allow comments and to expose these lying shits for what they really are!