@J1nsc My point is that they were doing more private work than their NHS contract allow them to - seems like you just totally missed the point. Thank you for demonstrating again that you don't know much about NHS. Have you found the paper yet? Oh wait maybe you don't have subscription to JRSM... which means that you aren't a doctor, don't work in NHS and not even a med student.
@commenting2008. Clearly you have some beef, didn't have the aptitude to get in to medical school, read too many tabloids, have a tiny wang -you choose. Either way I'm not about to waste my time with a snot nosed, little turd like you. GPs already have the budget, hardly anything has changed except we're not paying managers to dick around miles from the front line. It's happened, deal with it.
I'm literally pissing myself laughing! The government LOVES private health care as does the NHS. It's a fantastic stealth tax on the rich. -----Thank you! You've made my day.
@J1nsc Jeez you can't even write comprehensively. NHS loves private health care?! NHS as in the health workers or the patients? Makes no sense at all. BTW it's VERY sad that you call JRSM a tabloid. You either don't know what a tabloid is or what JRSM is.
@commenting2008 Makes no sense to you, because you're not in a position to appreciate the wider picture. Google: 'Inverse care law'. Think about who pays for the NHS and who uses it. Then think about who funds private healthcare but never uses it. You'll hopefully realise the two are symbiotic. NHS would be crippled if no one went private. I know, because I've worked in both. The average Joe, however, thinks the exact opposite because of the way it's marketed in the UK.
@J1nsc Your argument makes no sense - and quoting the inverse care law doesn't help one cent - even if the rich go private and (potentially) reduce their use of NHS services doesn't make a case for wholesale privatisation of NHS.
@commenting2008 Not debating complete privatisation -doesn't reduce health inequalities or give us better healthcare (although it is fair). I am, however, all for doing without expensive bureaucracy, which labour pioneered. Shifting responsibility to GPs saves a lot of money.
There are evidence that consultants employed on maximum PT contract fluffing their private work earnings, and no sorry to disappoint you it's not from Daily Mail it's from JRSM. There are many research which have shown doctors to be doing things that are better for their pockets than for the patients. Wake up stop making doctors out as some sort of saints. Sure there are many nice docs but they sure love money too just like the average joe.
@commenting2008 Hahaha JRSM -you're joking right? I'm not saying doctors are saints...but much better qualified to decide how local NHS funding should be spent. I've seen at least 5 'PCT managers' go through my hospital over the last 3 years with loads of advisories, arbiters, mx consultants, auditors etc etc. The cost is enormous and the money still doesn't follow the patient but swallowed in bureaucracy and bad desicions like PFIs. Local GPs managing their own budgets is a win win situation.
@J1nsc Yes JRSM - do you even know what these four letters stand for? You are exactly suggesting that doctors are saints and people should just listen to what they say all the time. Local GPs managing their own budgets is a death trap. It is used to be called "GP fundholding" but you might be too young and know too little about the NHS to have heard of it.
@J1nsc Money doesn't follow patients? There is something called "Payment by Results" if you have ever heard of it. Which this government is going to extend to the operation of job centres, reformation of criminals, etc. If you are going to be a fanboy of the coalition govt at least be thorough about it.
@J1nsc PCT managers wrongdoings - it might be news to you but PCTs don't have monopoly on scandals. If you care to read some real newspapers you'll find all sorts of organisations - private or public of all sizes - suffered scandals. Enron isn't just a play you know?
Your opinion... 'cheat, lie steal, murder' is not universally held. RCP published records on the most trusted professions. Guess who's at the top? Doctors, teachers and professors. At the bottom? Business leaders and politicians. Different article by the Beeb found doctors are least likely to evade tax, lie on their CV or have a criminal conviction. Perhaps you ought to cancel your subscription to the daily mail.
@J1nsc Most doctors are employed by the govt, is it any expectation that you can't fluff your income taxes if the tax collector and your employer works under the same boss? RCP calling their members most trustworthy is it any surprise? Berlusconi can sure commission a report which find himself to be the least corrupted guy in the world.
Factual error 5:39? Huge amount of NHS work is to do with community care and primary care (GPs) - well, yes and no, these kind of work constitute 15% of NHS work. Split between community care and primary care is about 5% and 10%. The 85% of NHS work is done within hospitals. That's why the Lansely's plan is so wrong as people used to looking after only 10% of NHS budget are now being in charge of 100% - 15 years after GP fundholding (mini version of Lansley's plan) found to have worked poorly.
GP's should be in charge of the NHS budget. Cut out the middle man! I don't want to pay £80,000 to a postgrad manager to screw up important health strategies up and down the country.
As a society we've carefully selected the elite to become doctors. They're bright, trust worthy, compassionate and motivated. Over the last 5 years they've accepted big pay cuts yet you never see them striking. Patient loads have increased, study budgets have dwindled and litigation has sky rocketed yet still the doctors are there day and night watching over us without hesitation.
Why then are we trusting billions to people who couldn't give a shit about you, just as long as they get paid?
@J1nsc Big pay cuts? Where do you get your news? Your facts are wishy washy too. Doctors are people too. Some of them would cheat, lie, steal, murder just like everybody else. Litigation costs matter nothing to doctors on individual basis, it's NHS that pay out.
@commenting2008 ALL junior doctors (pre CCT) have taken pay cuts. Instead of a band 3 multiplier they get 1c-2a. So for example 2005: band 3 was £50k is now rebounded to maximum band 2 is about £38k for a hard working doctor (70+ hrs week), most have gone unbanded and get NHS basic at about £24k for a 48 hour week. Study budget has dropped from £2-3k/year to around £350 for a typical registrar. -Look on the NHS website! Do you really need me to explain litigation and patient demand?
@J1nsc There has been excess supply of junior doctors for several years - it is any wonder why hospitals can offer less pay? It's taxpayers' money after all if they can hire u for £24k why pay 50k? Those working in NHS are lucky to find a job in UK at all. Many nursing graduates last year couldn't find any nursing job. As for consultants and GPs their pay had not decreased at all. It's very typical these days where senior guys do fine while junior folks gets peanuts. Not unique to doctors.
@commenting2008 Excess doctors for several years (Errrrrr, no)-again this opinion isn't universally held. Pay: I think you've missed the point here. The pay cut happened.... but there wasn't a strike, walkout or any kind of pay-related demonstration, they just got on with it. Can you think of any other profession that took a 50% pay cut and didn't throw a strop? Why do u think that is? Consultant/GPs get paid a lot more -agreed, but they're still actually cheap compared to other EU countries.
PACS - I was delivering integrated PACS systems long before Connecting for Health existed. ePrescribing - we're still waiting for CfH to deliver it? Those that have been delivered have been delivered outside the NPfIT.
What Gerry Robinson isnt saying in any of these programmes, is that the British pay the "lowest" income tax rates compared to workers in Western Europe, and also British Government's use less of our own Gross National Product ( overall wealth ) as investment into all our vital services that the countries of Europe.
Gerry Robinson is basically being allowed to patronise the viewing public with his progandist approach.
the Public Money wasted and squandered on non value added process changes throughout the public sector is totally unacceptable. We desperately need common sense approaches and abandon political interference.
@childr , Its been a balls up since Thatcher undrrfunded all our services in the 80s, coupled with New Labour doing the same underrfunding.
The day we British decise we want to pay higher income tax rates compared with workers on the Continent, that will be the day we might elect a tax and send Government.
In short we British have been paying too low income tax for almost 3 decades, and im afraid we only get what we pay for.
oh dear.
J1nsc 4 months ago
Overwhelming majority of consultants do private work -ie Non NHS. RCP is amongst one study, there are plenty plenty more. Berlusconi - i rest my case
J1nsc 5 months ago
@J1nsc My point is that they were doing more private work than their NHS contract allow them to - seems like you just totally missed the point. Thank you for demonstrating again that you don't know much about NHS. Have you found the paper yet? Oh wait maybe you don't have subscription to JRSM... which means that you aren't a doctor, don't work in NHS and not even a med student.
commenting2008 4 months ago
@commenting2008. Clearly you have some beef, didn't have the aptitude to get in to medical school, read too many tabloids, have a tiny wang -you choose. Either way I'm not about to waste my time with a snot nosed, little turd like you. GPs already have the budget, hardly anything has changed except we're not paying managers to dick around miles from the front line. It's happened, deal with it.
J1nsc 4 months ago
@J1nsc It's so funny that you think everyone - like you - wants to get into medical school and fail.
commenting2008 4 months ago
I'm literally pissing myself laughing! The government LOVES private health care as does the NHS. It's a fantastic stealth tax on the rich. -----Thank you! You've made my day.
J1nsc 4 months ago
@J1nsc Jeez you can't even write comprehensively. NHS loves private health care?! NHS as in the health workers or the patients? Makes no sense at all. BTW it's VERY sad that you call JRSM a tabloid. You either don't know what a tabloid is or what JRSM is.
commenting2008 4 months ago
@commenting2008 Makes no sense to you, because you're not in a position to appreciate the wider picture. Google: 'Inverse care law'. Think about who pays for the NHS and who uses it. Then think about who funds private healthcare but never uses it. You'll hopefully realise the two are symbiotic. NHS would be crippled if no one went private. I know, because I've worked in both. The average Joe, however, thinks the exact opposite because of the way it's marketed in the UK.
J1nsc 4 months ago
@J1nsc Your argument makes no sense - and quoting the inverse care law doesn't help one cent - even if the rich go private and (potentially) reduce their use of NHS services doesn't make a case for wholesale privatisation of NHS.
commenting2008 4 months ago
@commenting2008 Not debating complete privatisation -doesn't reduce health inequalities or give us better healthcare (although it is fair). I am, however, all for doing without expensive bureaucracy, which labour pioneered. Shifting responsibility to GPs saves a lot of money.
J1nsc 4 months ago
JRSM is the daily sport of medical literature. But then again you already knew that.
J1nsc 4 months ago
@J1nsc Touching a nerve don't we? What is BMJ then in your expert opinion? Daily Mirror?
commenting2008 4 months ago
Comment removed
commenting2008 4 months ago
There are evidence that consultants employed on maximum PT contract fluffing their private work earnings, and no sorry to disappoint you it's not from Daily Mail it's from JRSM. There are many research which have shown doctors to be doing things that are better for their pockets than for the patients. Wake up stop making doctors out as some sort of saints. Sure there are many nice docs but they sure love money too just like the average joe.
commenting2008 5 months ago
@commenting2008 Hahaha JRSM -you're joking right? I'm not saying doctors are saints...but much better qualified to decide how local NHS funding should be spent. I've seen at least 5 'PCT managers' go through my hospital over the last 3 years with loads of advisories, arbiters, mx consultants, auditors etc etc. The cost is enormous and the money still doesn't follow the patient but swallowed in bureaucracy and bad desicions like PFIs. Local GPs managing their own budgets is a win win situation.
J1nsc 5 months ago
Comment removed
commenting2008 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@J1nsc Yes JRSM - do you even know what these four letters stand for? You are exactly suggesting that doctors are saints and people should just listen to what they say all the time. Local GPs managing their own budgets is a death trap. It is used to be called "GP fundholding" but you might be too young and know too little about the NHS to have heard of it.
commenting2008 4 months ago
@J1nsc Money doesn't follow patients? There is something called "Payment by Results" if you have ever heard of it. Which this government is going to extend to the operation of job centres, reformation of criminals, etc. If you are going to be a fanboy of the coalition govt at least be thorough about it.
commenting2008 4 months ago
@J1nsc PCT managers wrongdoings - it might be news to you but PCTs don't have monopoly on scandals. If you care to read some real newspapers you'll find all sorts of organisations - private or public of all sizes - suffered scandals. Enron isn't just a play you know?
commenting2008 4 months ago
Your opinion... 'cheat, lie steal, murder' is not universally held. RCP published records on the most trusted professions. Guess who's at the top? Doctors, teachers and professors. At the bottom? Business leaders and politicians. Different article by the Beeb found doctors are least likely to evade tax, lie on their CV or have a criminal conviction. Perhaps you ought to cancel your subscription to the daily mail.
J1nsc 5 months ago
@J1nsc Most doctors are employed by the govt, is it any expectation that you can't fluff your income taxes if the tax collector and your employer works under the same boss? RCP calling their members most trustworthy is it any surprise? Berlusconi can sure commission a report which find himself to be the least corrupted guy in the world.
commenting2008 5 months ago
Comment removed
commenting2008 5 months ago
Comment removed
commenting2008 5 months ago
Factual error 5:39? Huge amount of NHS work is to do with community care and primary care (GPs) - well, yes and no, these kind of work constitute 15% of NHS work. Split between community care and primary care is about 5% and 10%. The 85% of NHS work is done within hospitals. That's why the Lansely's plan is so wrong as people used to looking after only 10% of NHS budget are now being in charge of 100% - 15 years after GP fundholding (mini version of Lansley's plan) found to have worked poorly.
commenting2008 5 months ago
GP's should be in charge of the NHS budget. Cut out the middle man! I don't want to pay £80,000 to a postgrad manager to screw up important health strategies up and down the country.
J1nsc 5 months ago
As a society we've carefully selected the elite to become doctors. They're bright, trust worthy, compassionate and motivated. Over the last 5 years they've accepted big pay cuts yet you never see them striking. Patient loads have increased, study budgets have dwindled and litigation has sky rocketed yet still the doctors are there day and night watching over us without hesitation.
Why then are we trusting billions to people who couldn't give a shit about you, just as long as they get paid?
J1nsc 5 months ago
@J1nsc Big pay cuts? Where do you get your news? Your facts are wishy washy too. Doctors are people too. Some of them would cheat, lie, steal, murder just like everybody else. Litigation costs matter nothing to doctors on individual basis, it's NHS that pay out.
commenting2008 5 months ago
@commenting2008 ALL junior doctors (pre CCT) have taken pay cuts. Instead of a band 3 multiplier they get 1c-2a. So for example 2005: band 3 was £50k is now rebounded to maximum band 2 is about £38k for a hard working doctor (70+ hrs week), most have gone unbanded and get NHS basic at about £24k for a 48 hour week. Study budget has dropped from £2-3k/year to around £350 for a typical registrar. -Look on the NHS website! Do you really need me to explain litigation and patient demand?
J1nsc 5 months ago
@J1nsc There has been excess supply of junior doctors for several years - it is any wonder why hospitals can offer less pay? It's taxpayers' money after all if they can hire u for £24k why pay 50k? Those working in NHS are lucky to find a job in UK at all. Many nursing graduates last year couldn't find any nursing job. As for consultants and GPs their pay had not decreased at all. It's very typical these days where senior guys do fine while junior folks gets peanuts. Not unique to doctors.
commenting2008 5 months ago
@commenting2008 Excess doctors for several years (Errrrrr, no)-again this opinion isn't universally held. Pay: I think you've missed the point here. The pay cut happened.... but there wasn't a strike, walkout or any kind of pay-related demonstration, they just got on with it. Can you think of any other profession that took a 50% pay cut and didn't throw a strop? Why do u think that is? Consultant/GPs get paid a lot more -agreed, but they're still actually cheap compared to other EU countries.
J1nsc 5 months ago
@J1nsc Yes - excess doctors. Simply too many of them - it's clearly described in the DDRB reports. There is no 50% pay cut. Stop lying.
commenting2008 4 months ago
@commenting2008 It's called rebanding. Ask any SHO is the UK
J1nsc 4 months ago
PACS - I was delivering integrated PACS systems long before Connecting for Health existed. ePrescribing - we're still waiting for CfH to deliver it? Those that have been delivered have been delivered outside the NPfIT.
george385 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What Gerry Robinson isnt saying in any of these programmes, is that the British pay the "lowest" income tax rates compared to workers in Western Europe, and also British Government's use less of our own Gross National Product ( overall wealth ) as investment into all our vital services that the countries of Europe.
Gerry Robinson is basically being allowed to patronise the viewing public with his progandist approach.
imonthebox 1 year ago
ummm. managers know nothing about managing
scottishlowoflow 1 year ago
the Public Money wasted and squandered on non value added process changes throughout the public sector is totally unacceptable. We desperately need common sense approaches and abandon political interference.
BonjellaMan 2 years ago
Sir Gerry Robinson talks sense and the NHS twit is obviously a scared bully.
No wonder 'systems' malfunction when people like him are at the helm.
ClemProductions 3 years ago
Same problem in Ireland with HSE
Bren1609 4 years ago
It's all been a balls up! I work in the NHS!
childr 4 years ago
@childr , Its been a balls up since Thatcher undrrfunded all our services in the 80s, coupled with New Labour doing the same underrfunding.
The day we British decise we want to pay higher income tax rates compared with workers on the Continent, that will be the day we might elect a tax and send Government.
In short we British have been paying too low income tax for almost 3 decades, and im afraid we only get what we pay for.
imonthebox 1 year ago