The synopsis for this episode could essentially be "Sisko dictates a personal log, then deletes it" and it sounds like crap. But when you watch it... One of the best episodes ever!
@333oceanbreeze Babylon 5 presented a similar scenario, with a far deadlier and malevolent adversary pushing Capt. Sheridan into making an impossible decision: Speak up and watch in horror as billions die, or say nothing and again watch in horror as millions die. There's no way you can make such a decision and not lose a part of your soul.
This episode more than any other just goes to show that Dukat was right, they are more alike than Sisko would like to admit. I guess those high-minded federation principles go out the airlock when you want something badly enough. But they say the only difference between right and wrong is that the right guys knows the difference...
Not everyone likes this episode, not everyone can stomach what it puts forward, and they don't want to live in a world where what's necessary comes before what's right. I know that.
But I can live with it. And so will they. Because what's important is that we'll still live.
And if anyone wants to make an argument against this, remember what is at stake here. What would you do in his place? Which side would you choose? Upholding your questionable and flexible moral values, or the salvation of the entire Alpha Quadrant from annihilation?
They have no choice. If there's any one rule any alien species in the universe will follow it is that of the survival of the fittest. Mankind did not become the dominant species just by intelligence alone, but because we used it to become a vicious, relentless super-predators that massacred all opposition from other life forms. If the same principles applies in interstellar scale, only the most vicious species survives.
The ends justifies the means. Sisko did what must be done.
Every time I see this episode especially the end monologue it gives me goose bumps. I loved every Trek series for each their uniqueness and characters, but I still think this is the best episode in Trek history. Some of you will disagree and that's ok, this is just one fan's opinion.
@BrentSaulic you gotta be kidding me lol. i dont think so lol. four more years of "evil republicans" and the good guy dems, and the evil rich guys (who we all work for one way or another) vs us pooor little people. No thanks Barak ;-) go home and play golf.
@lanebatts26 I was just joking at the time--I think I was drawing parrells between Siskos situation and the current politics of Barack Obama. Essentially Obama has made the same transgressions of Sisko, corrupting his principles to garner wins for what he sees as the greater good. I think every president has had a sit down like this with themselves, trying to rational justify breaking their promises or principles because of overriding concerns.
I think the real question is do the end justify the means--even when they go against the principles you are sworn to protect? I think this was a central contradiction in the Bush administration.
@dukeburger I don't know, Sisko does the entire monologue with the same confidence he always has, even the at the end when he is, as we surmise, unconvinced of his own ability to live with his role in the crime. Added with the tone, the cocked eyebrow, and the crossing of the legs at the end brings the words suave and devious to mind; hence my confusion.
You are probably right though, about his tone being that of a question, though I still don't hear it myself.
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Ahh, so you thought his tone/body language suggested that he was okay with everything and accepted it. Usually though when Sisko *is* being cocky and sure of what he says (and feels in control of a situation, knows he's right, etc.), he'll speak in that tone but he'll sound more sure of himself. Normally I think he'd drop back into a lower voice after saying CAN, but "live with it" also has the same rising intonation that "CAN" does, thus sounding like a question IMO.
Hey guys, how did you not notice the symbolism of Sisko carry his cup of drink everywhere but at 1:23 - 1:26 try to drink it but he disgusted with it and put it down to the table ?
In the novels that take place after Deep Space Nine Sisko goes to Starfleet Command and tells them what happened to get the Romulans into the Dominion War.
Well he didn't exactly die. The wormhole aliens saved him and he lived with them for a while. Also his going to starfleet happened before his on screen death.
I don't understand the last portion where he repeats "I can live with it". I figured he knew the man he was would refuse to live with his own role in such a crime, a crime against everything he believed in, and that by repeating "I can live with it" he was trying fool himself. But I don't know where he was coming from with his tone at the end, "I CAN liiiive with it". Perhaps the writers and Avery had tow different ideas for this scene.
@SpazzyMcGee1337 I always thought his intonation in his repeating of the line conveyed exactly what you said - the guilt and uncertainty of a compromised man. It's like he's *asking* himself, "I CAN live with it... right?" The fact is that he knows he HAS to live with it whether he wants to or not. To me the scene simply would not have been the same at all if the last line of his monologue did not sound like that.
The episode's tone, the performance of Avery Brooks, and the plot of a Starfleet captain forsaking the principles he's supposed to uphold...all make this Deep Space Nine's finest episode.
DS9 was possibly my favorite Trek series. Most Treks show a crew pulling together against all odds. DS9 shows a more believable side, when your neighbors and "friends" are the ones you need to watch most closely.
This entire episode is what makes star trek fantastic. It was definitely the fact that they went beyond the whole PRIME DIRECTIVE ABOVE ALL ELSE, and actually became human. What i really want is the music they played throughout this entire monologue.
'In the Pale Moonlight' is one of my favorite DS9 episodes. I loved the huge battle scenes between Federation and Dominion fleets, but this one is above the rest.
DS9 did what no Trek did before it. True character development. Sisko's log at the end really made the episode and the tone dark tone the series took.
In Voyager Janeway was too concerned about the Prime Directive to bring her crew home. Here you realize if Sisko were in that position he would do whatever it took to get back home.
@x5992 yes and no actually the positions janeway were put in didnt take on such stark similarities to this one primarily because of the number game. Sisko damned a couple of people and bent the prime directive to save over 900 billion (from the episode statistical probability) whilst janeway in most cases would be doing the same thing but with the only outcome being that her select few got home (as opposed to death) either way this is better since it shows TRUE human nature and not idealized
This was always my favourite episode of the show. The moral and ethical issues they deal with are so beyond what Star Trek usually does that it's hard to believe it's part of the same franchise.
I often think about whether the ends justify the means.
i ask myself whether I would end one life to save many others.
In the end I just don't think I have it in me to do such a thing.
@metsrus Considering the circumstances & what was at stake, do you really blame them? More importantly, if you were in Sisko's position, would you do the same? To be honest, I can't say I wouldn't.
That is how wars are won, granted it's won by a soliders blood on the battle field, but if you don't have the ability to bring needed allies into the fight you will lose.
@SunTrapped I've had my share of engagements, but I never had to fabricate evidence & commit murder. Still, in that situation, I probably would & learn to live with it.
Sisko's actions may seem extreme but I think the circumstances were unique. DS9 was under constant threat and the federation was losing the war. It is also fits in the DS9 universes as it's the darkest of all the series.
this series in my opinion is miles better than tng, it had more fleshed out characters and heart to it's stories TNG there was a clear line between good guys and bad guys but ds9 everyone had a compelling reason for doing what they did. It also fleshed out alot of the major alien races as well especially the klingons and bjorins. Oh and bringing warf in was the best move they made he is clearly the most badass officer in starfleet ....EVER
@arthisuther I agree. Furthermore, DS9 usually forced the characters to deal with the situation they were in. There was usually no new technology, Wesley Crusher, or some fluke event to remove the problem, the problem was there, and, like in this episode, Sisko knew the price of failing to act. What if the right thing is to leave the Romulans alone? If that is the right thing to do, it means sacrificing the alpha quadrant.
@Dewgma yep, utopia's only utopia if every one else thinks and acts just like you. That was the flaw in Gene's vision - thinking everyone we meet would share our morals. This scene somewhat harkens to Jack Nicholson's speech in A Few Good Men: "My existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you... saves lives."
@AEigner Absolutely. It's the old adage "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." I actually believe in a form of utopia, just not Gene's utopia, since his utopia is contrived. DS9's Federation puts their ideals to the test, and only in that test do those ideals actually mean anything. Sisko is a man of great virtue, but he lives in a real world, with real problems, but if men like him persevere, that's how I define utopia.
I love how they give Sisko all these Shakespearian soliloquies as if they are just that. At the end though, they reveal he is journaling it all to his log.
When you skip all the "Federation-Law-Trouble" episodes and only watch the "Dominion/Cardassian" episodes, this is one of the greatest sci-fi series ever.
Man, everybody jokes about how weird and over the top Shatner could be, but I swear that Brooks, with that...clipped and halting way of speaking and that almost sulky attitude he always seemed to have was a lot stranger to me. Sisko was by far the quirkiest Captain.
Watch "In the Pale Moonlight". In order for the Romulans to join the Federation side, Sisko invites a Romulan senator, Vreenak, to visit the station. Together with Elim Garak, they fake a holo log of a Dominion meeting in which the attack on the Romulans is planned. To do so, they trade highly illegal medical supplies, bribe and threaten the holo programmer, and in the end, kill the Senator to prevent him from telling everyone it was fake. And this is Sisko's thoughts at the end.
It is a refreshing change from the "always do good regardless of the cost" attitude the star trek universe seems to always uphold. It really diverged in Voyager as well.
One of my favourite episodes of DS9. I really liked this scene because it suits the darker tone of the series. Sisko might seem cold but the character suits this universe.
@Diekssus There is even a welcome to the fight party. I love that line. I can envision seeing Star fleet, the Klingon's and other Federation races all sticking out their
hands to welcome the Romulans to the fight. Thoe the Romulans would never shake hands, their too arrogant.
@abanks1959 - "There is even a welcome to the fight party. I love that line ..." I love it to, because of the image it evokes in our minds of normally formal and grave Federation officers partying and reaching for that 3rd glass of Romulan ale, while the Klingons are head-butting each other and roaring their delight. Such an avalanche of relief during the darkest days of a long war, is the very definition of ecstasy.
@MrAcast84 The plot to bring the Romulan Star Empire into the war may have made a lot of sense, it may have been the only way to win, but if one isn't willing to gamble by taking the high road then the Federation wouldn't have been the quasi-utopia that it was. Risks have to be taken and practicality sacrificed in order to strive for something greater. Sisko took the easy road instead of risking the fate of the federation by staying the course.
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Did we lose WWII because the Enola Gay bombed innocent civilians? Makes for great figurative rhetoric, but in reality it probably spared more lives by ending the war early. Utopia is something a flawed humanity can aspire to, but will never completely attain honestly. If it was, would there be no dirty secrets? Nothing is perfect.
How many lives did Sisko save by ending the war early? Sometimes the ends do justify the means, especially when lives are at stake. Sad, but true.
@MrAcast84 You're post gave me nothing interesting to think about. I said in Star Trek is about looking past what is practical in the name of hope. You said practical is good because it's practical.
Before you post something else I gain nothing from, realize that I'm not arguing anything. I'm simply stating a clear theme in Star Trek. :\
@SpazzyMcGee1337 I wasn't trying to give you something to ponder. That wasn't my intention. Nor did you state that you were talking about themes in Star Trek. Indeed, your lack of clarification made it appear as though you were talking about your own personal belief. You're entitled to those beliefs if you share them. But know that in war, real non-fictional wars, you want to spare lives by any means necessary. Gambling lives or putting them at risk out of idealist pride? That's cold blooded.
@amezzeray2 - "that last line, in my opinion, is one of the darkest and greatest lines in television." "(puts down drink) I CAN live with it ... computer, erase that ENTIRE personal log." Indeed, he tries to live with it, grits his teeth while trying to summon the courage to live with it, he realizes he can't. This is not a failure for Sisko, because he wouldn't be a good guy if he could "live with it."
In today's world Wikileaks would have gotten hold of a cached copy of that log and spread it across all sub-space frequencies. Not that that's a bad thing. Just sayin'.
@Hateblade Well, not really. I think you're assuming too much from Wikileaks; the stuff they're leaking really isn't anything on par with the idea of this kind of deception.
@Hateblade - "In today's world Wikileaks". Haha! nice! Then when Starfleet Intelligence would hunt them down, they'd squeal like stuck pigs about "the right to privacy!"
This is the best episode of Star Trek, not just DS9 (although there are some real gems over the 7 seasons of DS9)
You see how far some would would be pushed, and how they can come around when their very way of life is threatened. Its like Section 31, who break the rules to keep them safe.
What I love about DS9 is the fact that the humans weren't just goody-goody's they were well... human. They had flaws. Not to mention the story line, it was very well done and interesting. Too bad it didn't get the recognition it deserves, hell it deserves more then the other's in my opinion.
@lovetelevision I happen to like TNG more than DS9, because NexGen is what I gew up with. However, I still recognize that, taken as a whole, DS9 is the better series. Season 3 of NexGen can blow the pants off of any season of any other Star Trek show, though. Yesterday's Enterprise AND Best of Both Worlds? Good luck matching that. DS9 season 6 does come close, though.
@gimlisam TNG has some pretty good episodes I have to admit. Data is one of my fav's from TNG. I liked Enterprise too, it was interesting to watch a series based before all of the other Star Trek's. Though I have to admit, I'll personally always like DS9 the best.
This is exactly why I love DS9. The characters have actual conflicts with morality. Whether they be internal, like with Sisko, or external, like with Bashir and Section 31.
I gotta wonder just how safe the Federation's computer actually is - just cos he says "delete that entire personal log" doesn't mean that isn't still there - if it's anything like my computer...
i know we frequently see then recreating deleted data, he should have made a written entry in a book about it or something, at least that way he could have burn it and made sure no one could ever get it back
I don't know why people think that DS9 conflicts with Roddenberry's Utopian vision. The whole idea of humans becoming more civilized is that we began to learn from our mistakes and built a better civilization. It doesn't mean that humans became better because they evolved some kind of morality gene. A main theme behind DS9 is that when deprived of the civilized Federation culture, humans revert back to the way we have always been.
Well, this is the big question of "Can the ends ever justify the means?". Many philosophers of ethics say no. Sisko decided yes. I think when he says "I can live with it" he is in a sense also taking complete responsibility for the inner effects of his lying, cheating, etc. His self-respect and sense of pride in himself as an honorable person has been damaged and he's willing to accept the psychological consequences. This makes his position more ethical, I believe.
i think they went about it the wrong way. they shoulda talked the romulans into declaring war on the federation 2 get deep into the dominion then kill n destroy there main bases and leaders. sure a few federation citizens might of had to die, but thats a big part of what this episodes about, the needs of the many etc.
Serves the Romulans right to get played like that. It goes back to the Earth-Romulan War. They wanted Earth because it was close to Vulcan, and it was younger, weaker and less experienced than the other interstellar powers. Instead, the opposite happened - instead of destroying Earth, the other powers helped Earth, and turned on the Romulans. In fact, Humanity proved its strength because even though Romulus tried to destroy Earth, Humaity let them retreat with dignity.
One of the best ST scenes there's ever been. Some fans may imagine Roddenberry turning in his grave over this scene, but the Utopian vision of the Federation has to come at a price. And there is always a price. In this case, the price is Sisko's self respect, and he gives it as a willing sacrifice. In that way, Sisko is as noble and selfless as Picard, and the greatness of DS9 is in challenging the viewer to see that you can do the right thing even if history will never honor you for it.
I can never tire of this episode. The inner conflict and the choices they have to make just makes it never get old. No special effects could ever match great writing and great character arcs. This is one of the best, if not The Best Star Trek Episode. The Inner Light and Far Beyond the Stars are a very very close second. simply a great episode. Thanks for posting.
I remember seeing this when it first aired on TV. And for all the super special effects work they did for the Dominion War and so on.......this is still the scene that scares the absolute fuck out of me.
I mean part way through I almost thought he was gonna bite the head of a kitten. Well played Avery Brooks.
I didn't see the whole episode the first time I saw this scene, and even then I found it chilling. After watching the whole thing, I say it's one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.
Ofcourse he was right and so was GARAK! Does anyone have the link for the argument just before this? That was the seen that made the whole episode, this clip means nothing without it!
The synopsis for this episode could essentially be "Sisko dictates a personal log, then deletes it" and it sounds like crap. But when you watch it... One of the best episodes ever!
viperhalberd 3 weeks ago
I don't think I can live with it. :^]
333oceanbreeze 1 month ago
@333oceanbreeze Babylon 5 presented a similar scenario, with a far deadlier and malevolent adversary pushing Capt. Sheridan into making an impossible decision: Speak up and watch in horror as billions die, or say nothing and again watch in horror as millions die. There's no way you can make such a decision and not lose a part of your soul.
Keeva2006 3 weeks ago
This episode more than any other just goes to show that Dukat was right, they are more alike than Sisko would like to admit. I guess those high-minded federation principles go out the airlock when you want something badly enough. But they say the only difference between right and wrong is that the right guys knows the difference...
Academician100 1 month ago
ah fuck this is amazing
dvarblo 1 month ago
Not everyone likes this episode, not everyone can stomach what it puts forward, and they don't want to live in a world where what's necessary comes before what's right. I know that.
But I can live with it. And so will they. Because what's important is that we'll still live.
Kibonsensei 1 month ago
DS9 kicks ass, awesome episode
LOLMAN22 1 month ago 2
Garak was right!
SolomonKull 2 months ago
@SolomonKull Lifted right from the pages of the Prince.
NorthForkFisherman 2 months ago
This clip is Sisko is my captain, and always will be.
RedPillonTopix 3 months ago 2
I think,that if someday the romulans discover the truth.They will not start a war with the federation,because they wont stand a chance.
AdisloKazdan 3 months ago
@AdisloKazdan
Let them start a war. They can't stand up against both the Federation and the Klingons.
RedPillonTopix 3 months ago
Avery Brooks is an excellent actor.
Iomeces 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
And if anyone wants to make an argument against this, remember what is at stake here. What would you do in his place? Which side would you choose? Upholding your questionable and flexible moral values, or the salvation of the entire Alpha Quadrant from annihilation?
TheVoiceOfReason93 4 months ago
Comment removed
TheVoiceOfReason93 4 months ago
They have no choice. If there's any one rule any alien species in the universe will follow it is that of the survival of the fittest. Mankind did not become the dominant species just by intelligence alone, but because we used it to become a vicious, relentless super-predators that massacred all opposition from other life forms. If the same principles applies in interstellar scale, only the most vicious species survives.
The ends justifies the means. Sisko did what must be done.
TheVoiceOfReason93 4 months ago
Every time I see this episode especially the end monologue it gives me goose bumps. I loved every Trek series for each their uniqueness and characters, but I still think this is the best episode in Trek history. Some of you will disagree and that's ok, this is just one fan's opinion.
gigantamos 4 months ago 2
Sisko not only crosses the line...he picks it up strangles someone with it and moves on..LIKE A BOSS.
tmande2nd 4 months ago
One of the greatest episodes, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Vote for Barack Obama.
BrentSaulic 5 months ago
@BrentSaulic you gotta be kidding me lol. i dont think so lol. four more years of "evil republicans" and the good guy dems, and the evil rich guys (who we all work for one way or another) vs us pooor little people. No thanks Barak ;-) go home and play golf.
lanebatts26 4 months ago
@lanebatts26 I was just joking at the time--I think I was drawing parrells between Siskos situation and the current politics of Barack Obama. Essentially Obama has made the same transgressions of Sisko, corrupting his principles to garner wins for what he sees as the greater good. I think every president has had a sit down like this with themselves, trying to rational justify breaking their promises or principles because of overriding concerns.
BrentSaulic 4 months ago
I think the real question is do the end justify the means--even when they go against the principles you are sworn to protect? I think this was a central contradiction in the Bush administration.
BrentSaulic 4 months ago
@dukeburger I don't know, Sisko does the entire monologue with the same confidence he always has, even the at the end when he is, as we surmise, unconvinced of his own ability to live with his role in the crime. Added with the tone, the cocked eyebrow, and the crossing of the legs at the end brings the words suave and devious to mind; hence my confusion.
You are probably right though, about his tone being that of a question, though I still don't hear it myself.
SpazzyMcGee1337 5 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Ahh, so you thought his tone/body language suggested that he was okay with everything and accepted it. Usually though when Sisko *is* being cocky and sure of what he says (and feels in control of a situation, knows he's right, etc.), he'll speak in that tone but he'll sound more sure of himself. Normally I think he'd drop back into a lower voice after saying CAN, but "live with it" also has the same rising intonation that "CAN" does, thus sounding like a question IMO.
dukeburger 5 months ago
@dukeburger I half feel VERY nerdy and half feel like a victim of my AP English teacher, lol.
SpazzyMcGee1337 5 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Lol. xD I actually wanted to say something about how nerdy the whole thing was but I ran out of characters. :p
dukeburger 5 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337
Hey guys, how did you not notice the symbolism of Sisko carry his cup of drink everywhere but at 1:23 - 1:26 try to drink it but he disgusted with it and put it down to the table ?
I'am sure this means he can't drink/live with it.
VigoDoria 5 months ago in playlist Liked 2
@VigoDoria
In the novels that take place after Deep Space Nine Sisko goes to Starfleet Command and tells them what happened to get the Romulans into the Dominion War.
toomanyaccounts 5 months ago
@toomanyaccounts Is this prior to his "Death" (What you leave behind) or did they resurrect him for the novels?
I always thought (similar to Kirk) they way he "died" left it open for the possibility of him coming back.
capitalmindz 4 months ago
@capitalmindz
Well he didn't exactly die. The wormhole aliens saved him and he lived with them for a while. Also his going to starfleet happened before his on screen death.
toomanyaccounts 4 months ago
best episode in the entire series.
dazmondo69 5 months ago
3 people are Jem'Hadar
shan8377 5 months ago
I don't understand the last portion where he repeats "I can live with it". I figured he knew the man he was would refuse to live with his own role in such a crime, a crime against everything he believed in, and that by repeating "I can live with it" he was trying fool himself. But I don't know where he was coming from with his tone at the end, "I CAN liiiive with it". Perhaps the writers and Avery had tow different ideas for this scene.
SpazzyMcGee1337 6 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 I always thought his intonation in his repeating of the line conveyed exactly what you said - the guilt and uncertainty of a compromised man. It's like he's *asking* himself, "I CAN live with it... right?" The fact is that he knows he HAS to live with it whether he wants to or not. To me the scene simply would not have been the same at all if the last line of his monologue did not sound like that.
dukeburger 5 months ago
Comment removed
SpazzyMcGee1337 5 months ago
The episode's tone, the performance of Avery Brooks, and the plot of a Starfleet captain forsaking the principles he's supposed to uphold...all make this Deep Space Nine's finest episode.
ImmortalfireTheMod 6 months ago
Sisko is essentially a messiah, thus he needs his fall before his redemption and resurrection
guanaesantonio 6 months ago
and this is why Sisko is my favourite captain. The man can do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
Korhanne 6 months ago
the budget of a filler episode the writing of a master piece the best DS9 episode no the best episode of any trek show
w7100 6 months ago
DS9 was possibly my favorite Trek series. Most Treks show a crew pulling together against all odds. DS9 shows a more believable side, when your neighbors and "friends" are the ones you need to watch most closely.
cerealkiller1124 6 months ago
This is one of the best episodes of the best Trek series.
GabrielMajere 6 months ago
The best ST ever!!
guerrerosalsa 6 months ago 2
Does anyone else think that Sisko's TRYING to convince himself to live with it, when he really can't?
lukegreen37 6 months ago 14
@lukegreen37 Yes. That's the point.
Hibbs4Prez 6 months ago
I loved DS9's moral ambiguity
TheRhinehart86 7 months ago 2
This entire episode is what makes star trek fantastic. It was definitely the fact that they went beyond the whole PRIME DIRECTIVE ABOVE ALL ELSE, and actually became human. What i really want is the music they played throughout this entire monologue.
fathertime95 7 months ago 2
'In the Pale Moonlight' is one of my favorite DS9 episodes. I loved the huge battle scenes between Federation and Dominion fleets, but this one is above the rest.
DS9 did what no Trek did before it. True character development. Sisko's log at the end really made the episode and the tone dark tone the series took.
In Voyager Janeway was too concerned about the Prime Directive to bring her crew home. Here you realize if Sisko were in that position he would do whatever it took to get back home.
x5992 7 months ago 30
@x5992 Yeah, if it was Sisko the whole crew would have been home two episodes in. But that would have been a rather short series...
GriffinPilgrim 6 months ago
@x5992 yes and no actually the positions janeway were put in didnt take on such stark similarities to this one primarily because of the number game. Sisko damned a couple of people and bent the prime directive to save over 900 billion (from the episode statistical probability) whilst janeway in most cases would be doing the same thing but with the only outcome being that her select few got home (as opposed to death) either way this is better since it shows TRUE human nature and not idealized
Allslayer 4 months ago
@x5992
They would have been back in a day.
BUBBAMEISTER33 3 months ago
This was always my favourite episode of the show. The moral and ethical issues they deal with are so beyond what Star Trek usually does that it's hard to believe it's part of the same franchise.
I often think about whether the ends justify the means.
i ask myself whether I would end one life to save many others.
In the end I just don't think I have it in me to do such a thing.
Does that make me a good person or just a coward?
TheJboy88 8 months ago 2
best single episode of any trek ever
utubeaccount00 8 months ago 2
@utubeaccount00 Agreed.
JohnnyZenith 8 months ago
great episode, shows that even starfleet morals and principles will be thrown out of the window when survival is in jeopardy.
metsrus 9 months ago
@metsrus Considering the circumstances & what was at stake, do you really blame them? More importantly, if you were in Sisko's position, would you do the same? To be honest, I can't say I wouldn't.
krazyknva78 9 months ago
@krazyknva78
That is how wars are won, granted it's won by a soliders blood on the battle field, but if you don't have the ability to bring needed allies into the fight you will lose.
SunTrapped 9 months ago
@SunTrapped I've had my share of engagements, but I never had to fabricate evidence & commit murder. Still, in that situation, I probably would & learn to live with it.
krazyknva78 9 months ago
@krazyknva78
Thank you for your service to our country.
SunTrapped 9 months ago
romulans partying on ds9, that would've been interesting to see
zzxcvb98 9 months ago
One of my favourite scenes in DS9. Amazing stuff.
BDaMonkey 9 months ago
Sisko's actions may seem extreme but I think the circumstances were unique. DS9 was under constant threat and the federation was losing the war. It is also fits in the DS9 universes as it's the darkest of all the series.
twoface0 9 months ago
Trivia note: Sisko's swearing up and down that "I can live with it" is actually a homage to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance:
Jimmy Stewart: "But...but *why*, Tom? W-why'd you do it? I--"
John Wayne: "Cold-blooded murder! But I can live with it."
Somehow, though...we, the audience, know Wayne's character CAN'T live with it--but he has to. Just like Sisko....
RushLimborg 9 months ago 3
This is a HUGE VICTORY for the good guys!
Victory dance @ 0:27
And yes, he CAN live with it!
Halo1138 10 months ago 12
This is definately one of the best episodes in any ST series!
mbbell23 10 months ago
this series in my opinion is miles better than tng, it had more fleshed out characters and heart to it's stories TNG there was a clear line between good guys and bad guys but ds9 everyone had a compelling reason for doing what they did. It also fleshed out alot of the major alien races as well especially the klingons and bjorins. Oh and bringing warf in was the best move they made he is clearly the most badass officer in starfleet ....EVER
arthisuther 10 months ago
@arthisuther I agree. Furthermore, DS9 usually forced the characters to deal with the situation they were in. There was usually no new technology, Wesley Crusher, or some fluke event to remove the problem, the problem was there, and, like in this episode, Sisko knew the price of failing to act. What if the right thing is to leave the Romulans alone? If that is the right thing to do, it means sacrificing the alpha quadrant.
erentheca 9 months ago
@erentheca
but the thing is when your survival is at stake then right or wrong becomes a luxury, something that the historians can decide
arthisuther 9 months ago
"Computer, erase Gene's entire vision of utopia"
On another note, this is the best trek moment ever
Dewgma 10 months ago 29
@Dewgma yep, utopia's only utopia if every one else thinks and acts just like you. That was the flaw in Gene's vision - thinking everyone we meet would share our morals. This scene somewhat harkens to Jack Nicholson's speech in A Few Good Men: "My existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you... saves lives."
AEigner 9 months ago
@AEigner Absolutely. It's the old adage "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." I actually believe in a form of utopia, just not Gene's utopia, since his utopia is contrived. DS9's Federation puts their ideals to the test, and only in that test do those ideals actually mean anything. Sisko is a man of great virtue, but he lives in a real world, with real problems, but if men like him persevere, that's how I define utopia.
erentheca 9 months ago 2
Best 2 minutes in Star Trek history as far as i'm concerned.
For once the whole "Kill 1000 to save 1" notion is put up on the shelf.
ryandebraal 11 months ago
Sisko confirmed Chaotic Good with this. A Starfleet officer chaotic !
Best line in DS9, for sure.
VigoDoria 11 months ago 3
Truth for all of you liberal holier than thou zombies out there. Some times you have to do what you have to do for the greater good.
rstryker27 1 year ago
I love how they give Sisko all these Shakespearian soliloquies as if they are just that. At the end though, they reveal he is journaling it all to his log.
tf2whackyengineer 1 year ago
When you skip all the "Federation-Law-Trouble" episodes and only watch the "Dominion/Cardassian" episodes, this is one of the greatest sci-fi series ever.
Yora21 1 year ago
Sisko is like a Denzel Washington of Star Trek
akaTrip 1 year ago 3
Man, everybody jokes about how weird and over the top Shatner could be, but I swear that Brooks, with that...clipped and halting way of speaking and that almost sulky attitude he always seemed to have was a lot stranger to me. Sisko was by far the quirkiest Captain.
jerico641 1 year ago
wtf is this
MrAngry27 1 year ago
@MrAngry27
Watch "In the Pale Moonlight". In order for the Romulans to join the Federation side, Sisko invites a Romulan senator, Vreenak, to visit the station. Together with Elim Garak, they fake a holo log of a Dominion meeting in which the attack on the Romulans is planned. To do so, they trade highly illegal medical supplies, bribe and threaten the holo programmer, and in the end, kill the Senator to prevent him from telling everyone it was fake. And this is Sisko's thoughts at the end.
thewildborne 1 year ago
Just like me with the last year of youtube uploads I tried to do....Trust me sisko, its worth deleting
butchdeadlift10 1 year ago
This was a great scene!
Lulungameena 1 year ago
This scene proves that Sisko is the baddest mofo of a Captain
jebussaves1 1 year ago 7
I like how he says it is a victory for the good guys in such a sarcastic way.
tenkenroo 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
WORST ACTOR EVER TO APPEAR IN STAR TREK.
dark7element 1 year ago
@dark7element You haven't seen the original series, have you?
INTPTT 1 year ago
It is a refreshing change from the "always do good regardless of the cost" attitude the star trek universe seems to always uphold. It really diverged in Voyager as well.
Ricalloo 1 year ago 6
I don't think I could do what he ended up doing, the price is just too high.
ComradeNerd 1 year ago
@ComradeNerd Than you would have either been killed or enslaved by the Founders.I'd rather do what he did and live free than to have that happen.
rtds9fan 1 year ago
@rtds9fan I wasn't criticizing him, I was stating that he had more courage to do it than I could ever summon.
ComradeNerd 1 year ago
I can live with it.
abanks1959 1 year ago
Don't know if this was the best episode of the series. Certainly damn close, though. Avery Brooks. Fantastic actor.
drfeelgood2810 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The is the best scene in showing what a bad actor he is.
redplague 1 year ago
One of my favourite episodes of DS9. I really liked this scene because it suits the darker tone of the series. Sisko might seem cold but the character suits this universe.
twoface0 1 year ago 2
"I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder, this is a Huge victory for the good guys!"
Diekssus 1 year ago 3
@Diekssus There is even a welcome to the fight party. I love that line. I can envision seeing Star fleet, the Klingon's and other Federation races all sticking out their
hands to welcome the Romulans to the fight. Thoe the Romulans would never shake hands, their too arrogant.
abanks1959 1 year ago 2
@abanks1959 - "There is even a welcome to the fight party. I love that line ..." I love it to, because of the image it evokes in our minds of normally formal and grave Federation officers partying and reaching for that 3rd glass of Romulan ale, while the Klingons are head-butting each other and roaring their delight. Such an avalanche of relief during the darkest days of a long war, is the very definition of ecstasy.
NameCallingIsWeak 11 months ago 2
2 people missed the like button.
NanoReaper 1 year ago 5
@NanoReaper They are close together. We'll give them the benefit of doubt.
Firefox13A 1 year ago
And so dies utopia.
SpazzyMcGee1337 1 year ago 37
@SpazzyMcGee1337
That that has never exsisted never really dies.
papermermaid 1 year ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Star Trek was never utopia.Sure it was far more higher up the scale than we are now but it was NEVER utopia or perfect.
rtds9fan 11 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Hopefully this isn't an omen to come for future policies in most countries in the world.
mtdewramen 10 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 inter arma enim silent leges
BlueCrystalGem 9 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337
....the reality is that is never existed.
papermermaid 7 months ago 3
@SpazzyMcGee1337 It would have died one way or the other. With this way at least the federation survives.
nightwind1989 7 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 And yet the Federation lives on...
MrAcast84 6 months ago
@MrAcast84 The plot to bring the Romulan Star Empire into the war may have made a lot of sense, it may have been the only way to win, but if one isn't willing to gamble by taking the high road then the Federation wouldn't have been the quasi-utopia that it was. Risks have to be taken and practicality sacrificed in order to strive for something greater. Sisko took the easy road instead of risking the fate of the federation by staying the course.
In a way, the Federation still lost the war.
SpazzyMcGee1337 6 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Did we lose WWII because the Enola Gay bombed innocent civilians? Makes for great figurative rhetoric, but in reality it probably spared more lives by ending the war early. Utopia is something a flawed humanity can aspire to, but will never completely attain honestly. If it was, would there be no dirty secrets? Nothing is perfect.
How many lives did Sisko save by ending the war early? Sometimes the ends do justify the means, especially when lives are at stake. Sad, but true.
MrAcast84 6 months ago
@MrAcast84 You're post gave me nothing interesting to think about. I said in Star Trek is about looking past what is practical in the name of hope. You said practical is good because it's practical.
Before you post something else I gain nothing from, realize that I'm not arguing anything. I'm simply stating a clear theme in Star Trek. :\
SpazzyMcGee1337 6 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 I wasn't trying to give you something to ponder. That wasn't my intention. Nor did you state that you were talking about themes in Star Trek. Indeed, your lack of clarification made it appear as though you were talking about your own personal belief. You're entitled to those beliefs if you share them. But know that in war, real non-fictional wars, you want to spare lives by any means necessary. Gambling lives or putting them at risk out of idealist pride? That's cold blooded.
MrAcast84 6 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 Yea here's the thing. We don't live in a utopia. He did the right thing.
StanleyTweedleVlogs 6 months ago
@StanleyTweedleVlogs Of course we don't live in the fictional government known as the Federation. Why is that even relevant?
SpazzyMcGee1337 6 months ago
@SpazzyMcGee1337 What you saw was the gilding over the truth. Utopia never truly existed. Now, we get to see the Federation for what it really is.
KellAnderson 6 months ago
Great episode. Excellent show. Captain Sisko ranks at the top in my book. Avery Brooks is just as inspirational in person.
Firefox13A 1 year ago 4
@Firefox13A Well said.
abanks1959 1 year ago
that last line, in my opinion, is one of the darkest and greatest lines in television.
amezzeray2 1 year ago 5
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@amezzeray2 - "that last line, in my opinion, is one of the darkest and greatest lines in television." "(puts down drink) I CAN live with it ... computer, erase that ENTIRE personal log." Indeed, he tries to live with it, grits his teeth while trying to summon the courage to live with it, he realizes he can't. This is not a failure for Sisko, because he wouldn't be a good guy if he could "live with it."
NameCallingIsWeak 11 months ago
In today's world Wikileaks would have gotten hold of a cached copy of that log and spread it across all sub-space frequencies. Not that that's a bad thing. Just sayin'.
Hateblade 1 year ago
@Hateblade lol
Firefox13A 1 year ago
@Hateblade Well, not really. I think you're assuming too much from Wikileaks; the stuff they're leaking really isn't anything on par with the idea of this kind of deception.
Kelvinian 1 year ago
@Hateblade - "In today's world Wikileaks". Haha! nice! Then when Starfleet Intelligence would hunt them down, they'd squeal like stuck pigs about "the right to privacy!"
NameCallingIsWeak 11 months ago
Very cool.
They want to know what's nicer?
He takes his drink from the same glass that appears in "BLADE RUNNER", when he takes his whyskie Decker.
Glad you've got my .........
psvalle780 1 year ago
This is the best episode of Star Trek, not just DS9 (although there are some real gems over the 7 seasons of DS9)
You see how far some would would be pushed, and how they can come around when their very way of life is threatened. Its like Section 31, who break the rules to keep them safe.
mongoingo 1 year ago
It would be speeches like this that really made DS9 so great. It was a wonderful new take on the allegedly "utopian" Federation.
ChaationBergin 1 year ago 3
How in the hell was Sisko never in a movie???
jag18203 1 year ago 17
@jag18203 I couldn't agree more!
thistlebear13 1 year ago
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@jag18203 - "How in the hell was Sisko never in a movie???" American History X. Good movie.
NameCallingIsWeak 11 months ago
What I love about DS9 is the fact that the humans weren't just goody-goody's they were well... human. They had flaws. Not to mention the story line, it was very well done and interesting. Too bad it didn't get the recognition it deserves, hell it deserves more then the other's in my opinion.
This happens to be one of my favorite scenes.
lovetelevision 1 year ago 6
@lovetelevision I happen to like TNG more than DS9, because NexGen is what I gew up with. However, I still recognize that, taken as a whole, DS9 is the better series. Season 3 of NexGen can blow the pants off of any season of any other Star Trek show, though. Yesterday's Enterprise AND Best of Both Worlds? Good luck matching that. DS9 season 6 does come close, though.
gimlisam 1 year ago
@gimlisam TNG has some pretty good episodes I have to admit. Data is one of my fav's from TNG. I liked Enterprise too, it was interesting to watch a series based before all of the other Star Trek's. Though I have to admit, I'll personally always like DS9 the best.
lovetelevision 1 year ago
This is exactly why I love DS9. The characters have actual conflicts with morality. Whether they be internal, like with Sisko, or external, like with Bashir and Section 31.
cunfuzzed 1 year ago 3
what's wrong with you people? it's an amazing scene thanks to an extraordonary actor and you are chatting about recreation of data?
MBROC 1 year ago
This is by far one of the best Trek episodes ever in my opinion, it's at least one of DS9's best
neo28a 1 year ago
I gotta wonder just how safe the Federation's computer actually is - just cos he says "delete that entire personal log" doesn't mean that isn't still there - if it's anything like my computer...
NothingOriginal55 1 year ago
i know we frequently see then recreating deleted data, he should have made a written entry in a book about it or something, at least that way he could have burn it and made sure no one could ever get it back
ondank 1 year ago
The fact that Avery Brooks never received an Emmy nomination is a crime against humanity.
JasonvonEvil83 1 year ago 4
Easily Sisko's most heartfelt moment in the entire series. Crowning moment of awesome and made of win.
thecyberhippie3500 1 year ago
I don't know why people think that DS9 conflicts with Roddenberry's Utopian vision. The whole idea of humans becoming more civilized is that we began to learn from our mistakes and built a better civilization. It doesn't mean that humans became better because they evolved some kind of morality gene. A main theme behind DS9 is that when deprived of the civilized Federation culture, humans revert back to the way we have always been.
KingOfMadCows 1 year ago
Lol calm down Sisko go easy on that ale :)
Bearkat50 1 year ago
Well, this is the big question of "Can the ends ever justify the means?". Many philosophers of ethics say no. Sisko decided yes. I think when he says "I can live with it" he is in a sense also taking complete responsibility for the inner effects of his lying, cheating, etc. His self-respect and sense of pride in himself as an honorable person has been damaged and he's willing to accept the psychological consequences. This makes his position more ethical, I believe.
kstar137 1 year ago 2
Ds9 is very win, I still think TNG will always be the best though
Seigfried12 1 year ago
One of the more interesting episode, because of the style of filming, as listener the viewer follows the episode!
Menn019 1 year ago
i think they went about it the wrong way. they shoulda talked the romulans into declaring war on the federation 2 get deep into the dominion then kill n destroy there main bases and leaders. sure a few federation citizens might of had to die, but thats a big part of what this episodes about, the needs of the many etc.
great sceane btw
pacbizkit 1 year ago
This is why DS9 is the best of the trek series.
larrystillday 1 year ago 8
@larrystillday
That is the gospel truth...
papermermaid 1 year ago
Damn good actor.
espouse 1 year ago 2
good acting
MrConundrum2020 1 year ago 3
Serves the Romulans right to get played like that. It goes back to the Earth-Romulan War. They wanted Earth because it was close to Vulcan, and it was younger, weaker and less experienced than the other interstellar powers. Instead, the opposite happened - instead of destroying Earth, the other powers helped Earth, and turned on the Romulans. In fact, Humanity proved its strength because even though Romulus tried to destroy Earth, Humaity let them retreat with dignity.
edinscot56789 1 year ago 2
One of the best ST scenes there's ever been. Some fans may imagine Roddenberry turning in his grave over this scene, but the Utopian vision of the Federation has to come at a price. And there is always a price. In this case, the price is Sisko's self respect, and he gives it as a willing sacrifice. In that way, Sisko is as noble and selfless as Picard, and the greatness of DS9 is in challenging the viewer to see that you can do the right thing even if history will never honor you for it.
Wibblywoo12345 1 year ago 5
Ben Sisko was and always will be the best trek captain :D
Ozgarthefighter 1 year ago 8
Great, now I am gonna have to start watching DS9 again...
tryrdon 1 year ago 49
@tryrdon
sorry about that xD
samfisher2009 1 year ago 12
" The end justify the means"
Irisheddy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Irisheddy - "The end justify the means" Only in the movies.
NameCallingIsWeak 11 months ago
I can never tire of this episode. The inner conflict and the choices they have to make just makes it never get old. No special effects could ever match great writing and great character arcs. This is one of the best, if not The Best Star Trek Episode. The Inner Light and Far Beyond the Stars are a very very close second. simply a great episode. Thanks for posting.
OLDELK95 1 year ago 4
I always loved DS9 (my girlfriend at the time got me hooked), but this episode, and scene, rocked my shit for real! War is hell!
Rocflex 2 years ago
Well if you can't persuade someone to do something, you can always MAKE them.
edinscot56789 2 years ago
I remember seeing this when it first aired on TV. And for all the super special effects work they did for the Dominion War and so on.......this is still the scene that scares the absolute fuck out of me.
I mean part way through I almost thought he was gonna bite the head of a kitten. Well played Avery Brooks.
Clockwork007 2 years ago 6
usualy this guy looks masculant but he looks a lttle feminent in this scene
baty1212 2 years ago
I didn't see the whole episode the first time I saw this scene, and even then I found it chilling. After watching the whole thing, I say it's one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.
outsideredge 2 years ago 2
Ofcourse he was right and so was GARAK! Does anyone have the link for the argument just before this? That was the seen that made the whole episode, this clip means nothing without it!
daehllaw 2 years ago
Avery Brooks was one of the best Trek actors ever, better than Shatner and Nimoy and easily ties Stewart and Spiner.
JasonvonEvil83 2 years ago 8
Star Trek is about exploring the human condition and that is where Mr. Brooks succeded here. Well done DS9 :D
Degobunny 2 years ago 4
Lied, cheated, bribed men and is an accessory to murder?
War is hell. Get used to it. :3
RiseofMarine 2 years ago
some TNG episodes were a little boring..
Nothing in DS9 was boring.
and if someone thinks a few season 1-2 episodes were boring, then the TNG ones were an absolute snoozefest
takerdust 2 years ago
when worf came on and they did all that klingon junk it become boring
stonecoldjason 2 years ago
Yea, I liked the whole political storyline of ds9 involving Cardassia, Bajor, Federation the most.
I think Worf and the Kl