Gifts Of The Spirit Debate - Part One

[SaudaraLink]

The problem with the white guest's position is that the Bible does not teach that the Bible replaced the 'extraordinary gifts' nor does it divide gifts into ordinary and extraordinary categories.

[gladmenarenotGod]

The True Gifts of the Holy Spirit are 7 and listed in Romans 12: 5-8 KJV and God will Judge us by these 7 Gifts Amos 9:7, Matthew 25: 34-46.

What we see in 1 Corinthians 12 are MANIFESTATION of the Spirit. These are SIGNS used by God to Authenticate His Church. Its like "Splitting of the Red Sea" we do not COVET the splitting of the Red sea, which is Idolatory and Tempting God, God controles this Signs. 1 Cor 10 warns!! The 7 Gifts of the Spirit in Rmans 12: 5-8 are services acceptable to God.

[gladmenarenotGod]

1 see a valley of BONES. We Cannot debate on God's Truth. Both of these men are wrong and Deadly.

The 7 Gifts of the Holy Spirit are listed in Romans 12: 5-8. What's listed in 1 Corinthians 12 are the "Manifestation" of the Spirit. Read this in the KJV. Manifestation is "SIGN" controlled by God. We Must not seek after signs the Lord said an evil and adultrous generation seek after signs which is IDOLATORY. The Lord gave us a whole Chapter of Warning against seeking after Signs in 1 Cor 10 KJV.

[daBlackBaron13]

And if the gifts of the Spirit require the laying on of hands, how do you explain the Spirit falling on the household of Cornelius? 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[daBlackBaron13]

Those who deny the gifts of the spirit: how do you reconcile this belief with the prophecy in Revelations concerning the two witnesses? If signs and wonders are passed away from all (and not just in those in whom *faith* has been made perfect) how will they perform the signs and wonders ascribed to them? 

Are you going to say that this has already happened? I'm a believer in a historicist interpretation of Revelations, but I can find no place in history where anyone has fit the bill.

[ACE4U1]

jesus loves me yes i know for the bible tells me so,

[Finnjun]

Notice the man who believes the gifts ended even admitted the possibilty of true divine miracles. At that point it shows the weakness of his interpretation because first he admits signs ceased yet a few moments later he admits to the possibility of real signs and wonders from God, that somebody could actually be healed in answer to prayer. There are the genuine and the fake. How can we discern? Use the Bible.

[thenegrochristian]

What about reformed Pentecostals!?

[lahridon2000]

Yeah, and dont forget the Christian buddhists as well!!!

[YoungCalvinist08]

Dear brother,

Will you also be posting Rev. Stewart's upcoming debate on the Doctrines of Grace?

[FirebrandNIRE]

If I can.

I'll probably try and upload Rev. Stewart's debate on the issue of Exclusive psalmody time permitting.

[YoungCalvinist08]

Oh cool.

[gideonsfriend]

i am anoyed at the way you guys disrespect one another.there are sheep not of this fold. by this shall all men know you are my disciples...if you have love one for another.a pentecostal from birth and always believed in slain in the spirit by the laying on of hands. only this week i realised at no time in the bible did anyone get slain in the spirit in that way but only when in the presence of the holiness of God and never ever by hunam intervention.what have i been taught from the pulpit.thanks

[yari718]

im pentecostal my whole life but i was always against slain in the spirit

[RedBeetle]

If you are not capable of answering my point, then just say so, but please don't try to change the subject to credentials (what I know of Catholicism), for such a move is simply the informal logical fallacy of abusive ad hominem.

Again, the point I brought up is that the Roman Catholic dogma of "Mary's Assumption" is no where to be found in Scripture. This is one example of how Catholicism and popery is no where founded in the Bible alone.

Sola Fide,

Monty L. Collier

see my channel page

[havock89]

The apostles today point goes against what jesus said. Didnt Jesus point out that most of the prophets came from outside the tribes of Israel? that the holy spirit goes where it Wills?

Does not God have dominion over this world?

[prophetofyahweh]

People who believe that the manifistations of the spirit are not for today, obviously havnt read the bible very much.

myspaceDOTcom/yahwehlovesme

[deadandfullyalive]

*We are called not only TO WALK in the love and truth of God (like Jesus), but also in His power

[RedBeetle]

A good book disproving the charismatic nonsense is "The Charismatics And The Word Of God". It was written by Victor Budgen. You can get it at the trinityfoundation dot org.

Visit my channel page and watch my videos on Calvinism.

[FirebrandNIRE]

I'll check it out

Cheers!

[deadandfullyalive]

I agree that the Charismatic/Pentecostal churches are often times way off on their theology/ecclesiology/spiritua­lity (like any other institutional church), but Jesus still wants to work in His body as He did when He was here. We are called not only in the love and truth of God, but also in His power. That is clear and only proof texting can deny that.

[RedBeetle]

I love the Protestant Reformed Churches. They are solid Calvinists!

I live in Kingsport, Tennessee, the P.R.C. are mainly found up north in Michigan. Even so, I have had several of their elders come and preach in my house and town. I miss them dearly.

[FirebrandNIRE]

Angus Stewart is my Pastor here Northern Ireland.

I'm an Ex- Pentecostal, and have been for the good part of 14-15 years now.

Thanks for your comment.

[havock89]

Hi. Im catholic and, I listen to a lot of Calvinist preachers on youtube, and apart from their intense judgmental attitude towards the pope (which I obviously dont agree with but im not bothered about), I find they have a very similar theology of christianity, and I love listening to their homilies too.

[RedBeetle]

Calvinism is Christianity. It is the logical, contextual, grammatical, and literal interpretation of Scripture Alone.

Catholicism has no basis in Scripture. Example: what verse can any pope point to that even mentions, let alone explains, the "assumption of Mary?" The Bible never speaks of this make-believe blasphemy of Pope Pius XII (he also supported of Hitler). The Catholic Mary is not found in Scripture, except in Jeremiah 7:18-20, and there she is condemned as the whore from hell.

[havock89]

Why are you attacking the catholic church? Put mary aside for a sec, I am not interested in argueing with you. What do you know about catholicism and how it is similar to protestant denominations?

[RedBeetle]

If you are not capable of answering my point, then just say so, but please don't try to change the subject to credentials (what I know of Catholicism), for such a move is simply the informal logical fallacy of abusive ad hominem.

Again, the point I brought up is that the Roman Catholic dogma of "Mary's Assumption" is no where to be found in Scripture. This is one example of how Catholicism and popery is no where founded in the Bible alone.

Sola Fide,

Monty L. Collier

see my channel page

[havock89]

actually arguing from authority is a valid stance. Argumentum ad hominem means I'm arguing a point by hurling abuse at you. I'm not.

The assumption of mary is an ASSUMPTION (hence the term). I am just confused by what you mean Catholicism has no basis in scripture. Are you saying that the one or two small points that differ (as far as i can see) between any denomination and catholicism means the whole of catholicism has no validity? Or that the points of difference are invalid scriptually?

[RedBeetle]

No, your asserting ad hominem, you just got called on it.

There is no proof from Scripture of the "Assumption of Mary."

I'm clearly saying that Catholicism has nothing in common with Calvinism.

[havock89]

Sigh. We believe in a supreme and perfect God, we believe in christ begotten of God. We believe in the trinity. We believe in original sin, our basic nature. We believe in the promise god gave to Abraham, we believe in salvation history. We believe that the coming of Christ fulfilled and completed the age of law, and usherd in the age of grace. We believe that christs sacrifice and faith in him is the only way of being aquited of our sins and being made anew by God.

You clearly are too picky.

[RedBeetle]

Yes, Calvinism is very picky.

It's called Sola Scriptura.

Claiming you believe in God is pointless, if God is not defined from Scripture Alone.

Catholicism has the incorrect definition of all the terms you mentioned.

Catholicism can not demonstrate any of its definitions from Scripture Alone.

The god of Catholicism is not the God of the Bible.

[havock89]

Like I said. I have no wish to argue with you on subjects like St.Mary. She points to Christ and loves his church. She serves God still.

You did not answer my question, do you know how the catholic church is alike to calvinism? What points of theology and teaching do we share?

[RedBeetle]

I can see why you don't wish to argue over your Catholic blasphemy concerning Mary. It is no where to be found in Scripture.

The Catholic Church has nothing in common with Calvinism. You need to study.

[havock89]

Oh. I see, you think its blasphemy? Im sorry you feel that way. The bible was written for the teaching of the church, not as a straight jacket on all following history. the assumption of mary is just that, an assumption. I have no delusions that everyhting any christian denomination teaches is 100% correct. Wer are all sinners, and all flawed. I have no delusions that I need Gods mercy.

[RedBeetle]

If you are claiming that the pope is fallible, which is contrary to Pope Pius IX's claim, and official Catholic dogma, then you oppose the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Are you claiming the Catholic Church is fallible--that it errs in its faith and practice? Are you claiming the pope is fallible.

[havock89]

The pope as a single man is fallable. the pope when in conjunction with the college of cardinals makes an absolute decree on a theological subject i think will not make a mistake. I believe the spirit of God guides the church.

I think your sola scriptura is laughable. the bibel was written to help the church find God, from generation ot generation. For the first 60 years of so, there was NO new testament. It was teaching that was the rule, the word of God augmentst and guides that teaching.

[RedBeetle]

The pope is Antichrist. You have not replied to my arguments, and you can not.

I'm glad that I got to demonstrate to everyone that Catholics can't defend their heresy from Scripture.

You prove my point that if you base your views on the Bible alone, then you can not be a Roman Catholic.

[havock89]

Wow you are reall a nut job! I have replied. When the pope utters an infallable argument, he does so in concordnace with the college of cardinals. the pope does not lead by himself.

Anti-christ? You are committing a grave sin here friend! Which pope are you talking about? there have been approximately 260 popes. I remeber idiots like you saying the same about the previous one. How many anti-christs are we gonna get then?

Rely on the bible for exergesis as well, you know! You're a bigot.

[havock89]

Sorry I meant to write "we" rely on the bible as our source of exergesis too. I know the bibel well. I rely on Jesus Christ for salvation. I acknowledge my sinful nature and repent. I have been bapised in faith and live in concordance with Gods Laws (as best as I can). So does the Pope. You calling him antichrist is downright pathetic and evil.

What do you base this on? the evil propoganda that existed just after the reformation? You're stuck in the past, with the devil on ya back!

[Blogrich55]

"How many anti-christs are we gonna get then?" havock89

There are many antichrists in the world and have been since Jesus' time. Most people confuse the term antichrist with the beast in Rev 13. Many call the pope the antchrist meaning the beast of Revelation.

I do not believe this is historically accurate. Nero was the beast.

[CarrotBench]

I am certainly no Roman Catholic myself, but you have no right to call the Pope the anti-Christ. In my studies in Church history, I have seen Popes that behaved in dreadful ways, it is true. But it says nowhere in the Bible that the Pope is the antichrist, and descriptions of the antichrist in 1 John and Revelation do not actually match the Pope. And, some Catholics may even be closer to Jesus than some protestants. It's about following Jesus Christ and His truth, not denominations.

[havock89]

Well said. As a Roman Catholic christian. I agree with you 100%

Christ is who we are called to emulate. Pope included.

[damildlyshreddah]

Thanks for the upload :)

[FirebrandNIRE]

Your welcome