Fully Charged Delta E4 coupe episode 017

[knobbyyates]

very interesting and informative,thank you

[Jigsjigz]

i think i could have made it look a lil prettier

[Jianju69]

@Jigsjigz Do it! Post videos when you're done.

[Jigsjigz]

@Jianju69 well i can draw you loads. i didnt say i could make 1... give me a few million or billion like other developers have and i could deffo make 1 look nicer i think. dont put words in my mouth bro, i just spoke my mind on the look of it, to me it looks very very simple bit of a lotus on the font and something ulgy on the back...

[Jianju69]

@Jigsjigz Good then, let's see the sketches. You needn't build a car to produce a video. I haven't put any words in your mouth. Merely pointing out that aesthetics are oft impinged upon by details such as aerodynamics & functionality. These engineers have done an incredible job of building an efficient, sporty, & I would say eye-catching car.

I could make a cool drawing too, but to claim superior design skill ignores reams & reams of calculations that went into making the car look as it does.

[Jigsjigz]

@Jigsjigz i have many sketches just no clay or carving tools with a wind tunnel to check the aero dynamics of it. i have though of vents that direct air onto breaks and cause downforce etc. im not just some kid that thinks oh i can do this... i just said i thought the design was ulgy and far to simple looking.

[Jianju69]

@Jigsjigz Do it! Post videos when you're done.Oh, and don't forget to make it a working prototype with amazing specs.

[Mickoes]

I am very curious about the crash tests of this car. I like the look of the car but I have doubt about its security.

Living in Canada, I don't know if Delta is an indy brand or a mainstream branch attempting to create the ultimate electric car. You should do a full spec description of the final product when these cars are not finished, and say why this is a reliable car if it's coming from an indy brand. (just a suggestion)

Keep up the good show, like it from Canada! :)

[m1aws]

@Pukkatronic Why don't you take a train to Germany if you are too scared to fly.

Even when EV's can have 1k mile range. (Lithium Sulphur cells) They will rarely be built for this distance. Why carry excess weight?

p.s. I think you are a bigot. Horses for courses :))

[XitUp]

Anyone else thinks it looks a bit like a Smart Roadster from the back?

It will be interesting to see more of these cars when they're up to 'production' spec.

[marshgre]

@XitUp To me it looks sort of like the small Volvo.

[ThalassTKynn]

This looks like a nice car, the little that i saw of the exterior. It would be nice if it went into production, though being a small company they'll probably be swallowed up by GM and bits and pieces will appear on other vehicles.

[CarlVanDoren]

IMHO, the rear open wheel well looks more attractive than, the new hybrid VW XL1.

[Rawr454]

Naming scheme influenced by the Lancia Delta S4

[1dashEVdotCOM]

Way to GO, 1-ev.com

[drillococco01]

Where can I send my CV??? I'd really work for an electric cars company like that :).

Nice indeed. Thank you!

[tempac]

@Pukkatronic if you play the portion back that talks about battery. You'll hopefully note the guy says 'this one as it is at the moment, has a smaller battery pack'. Just powerful enough to 'test' the car, in the sameway as you receive 'test cartridges' when you purchase a printer. This surely means that there are MORE POWERFUL BATTERY PACKS than they were THEN using. If you listen to the guys comments, you can almost hear him about to say before interrupted larger will be available.

[thadrazdow]

Do LCD screens draw less power than conventional gauges?

[UNITYN]

@thadrazdow probably not, but they are easier/cheaper to produce for small volume manufacturers with access to software developers. That way we dont end up with "parts bin" cars like the old Lotuses with their Marina door handles and BL switchgear!

[bonds911]

this is the only delta 4 electric coupe video on the whole youtube lol great job, congratulations i would also love to see a review of the inizio which sets to be the biggest tesla roadsters competitor

[PhilMEdwards]

I hope you'll continue bringing British engineering projects like this some publicity. I'd be interested to know if companies like Delta are considering mass producing vehicles in the UK, rather than selling their engineering know-how to foreign companies.

[marshgre]

@Pukkatronic Wouldn't it be nice if those of us who do not NEED to drive long distances drove electric cars and took the pressure (albeit slightly) off of the fuel supply making the prices lower for those who do NEED to drive long distances. - Just a thought...

[mskz06]

@Pukkatronic Why the hell would a 13 year old need to travel across Europe twice a month?

[paudieoc1234]

Man how have you not received more recognition? These vids are awesome very factual better than most shows on tv keep up the good work :)

[fullychargedshow]

@Pukkatronic Well okay, I climb off my high horse and sit corrected. However your original comment wasn't exactly calm and considered, you did sound very annoyed, furious even that someone would have the gall to force you to stop driving incredibly long distances in a car. Surely that isn't the point, surely we should, as a culture, embrace and encourage new technology and ideas. No, they won't suit everyone immediately but they are part of a process.

[randomdude10010]

The culture is what embraces technology, economy does. When EVs become economically sound enough, they will be embraced as a transportation option, but right now there are too many missing elements to make these vehicles truly marketable. What the people who are making these cars need to do is become actual competitors in the market without relying on Gov't support every step of the way. When these vehicles are good enough, I probably will buy one to go to work and get groceries in, just not yet

[JRP3]

@Pukkatronic You're the one who started ranting about not wanting to hear about EV's unless they can do some extraordinary range. Millions of EV's will likely be on the road long before they will meet your requirements, so if you don't want to hear about them until then don't bother to click on any EV links for a few years. If you do be prepared for them to have less range than you require.

[adric22]

It would have been great to know more about this car. Was it a prototype for a production vehicle, was it just a concept car? In other words, why were they making it?

[NickCarpenter]

@adric22 We started laying out the car over 4 years ago, but the main body of work started just over 2 years ago and the intention is to show what is achievable starting from a "clean sheet". We're building 5 cars initially to take part in a government-supported demonstrator program for ultra-low carbon vehicles. Our business is actually an engineering consultancy rather than a car manufacturer, but if there's enough interest in the E-4 then we will look at ways of supplying the demand!

[404jared404]

Great car. I wish them well with their design. Unfortunately your test drive is a bit like Top Gear carporn - I am never going to be able to afford a carbonfibre car :(

[NickCarpenter]

@404jared404 One of the main reasons for approaching the project as we did was to see how far we could reduce the cost of a carbon composite chassis. Labour content usually accounts for well over half of the cost of composite structures, and this is where we've targeted our work - working with Advanced Composites to develop materials and processes that will significantly reduce the cost of automotive composite structures. We've made some good steps already, and there's more to come...

[jstack6]

I get 7-8 miles per KWh of electric in my Nissan LEAF. It's simply amazing The LEAF also seats 5. That's about $1 of local made electric vs 2 gallons of petrol from many unstable locations.

[marshgre]

@jstack6 Got a Leaf? Lucky. I'm stuck here in Atlantic Canada waiting for a chance just to see one.

[arrondo927]

damn sexy, that! looking forward to the finished car -- and your next video!

[wlchase]

Nerds rule!

Sweet-looking car! It will be interesting to see how the final versions look.

[mskz06]

Nice video Robert. Are you going to test out the Chevy Volt or Opel Ampera anytime soon? Will be looking forward to that test drive.

[avada0]

Cool. At last a direct drive EV. I never understood why all the electric cars all came with gearing. Maybe they were just cheap and didn't want to deal with the complications.

I wonder what kind of engine they use. AC? DC? Induction? Synchronous?

Does running the motors at low rpm (because of direct drive) have an efficiency cost?

[ninjabob2456]

@avada0 I'm guessing they're direct drive as it suits the axial flux motors as the RGE SRZero does the same thing with 'similar' (I assume) motors. As for why they're not seen already they're a fairly new technology anyway.

[avada0]

@ninjabob2456 How do you know what kind of motor either uses?

[ninjabob2456]

@avada0 There's a huge amount of information available if you have sufficient interest to look it up.

[NickCarpenter]

@avada0 We use two permanent-magnet axial flux motors - these are now being developed and sold by Oxford YASA Motors. The original design was done by the Electrical Power Group at Oxford University in partnership with Delta Motorsport. OYM spun out of the University.

The efficiency over a typical drive cycle is greater than 90%, which is very much at the top end of what's achievable from any motor architecture.

[avada0]

@NickCarpenter 90% from motor to wheel is superb.

[fullychargedshow]

@Pukkatronic I promise never to talk to you about EV's, you clearly NEED to drive much further than any EV can manage at the moment. When the 1st thousand mile battery is released I'll talk to you then. To be honest, I don't think the people who are developing EV's are out to force you to drive one and thereby destroy your life and freedom to drive anywhere and everywhere you want. BTW, why watch if limited range EV's annoy you so much?

[Jigsjigz]

@fullychargedshow i guess he though it was a electric car that ran on hopes and dreams

[LoriCiani]

I liked this preview, I look forward to a more detailed report on this innovatve design. : )

[Jesus45U]

I generally enjoy your video's, but this was a really bad one.

Didn't show any of the interior, didn't show any of it's practicality (does it even have a boot, back seats ?), didn't really show off how the car looks very well, didn't really tell us any of the specs, didn't show how quick/slow it was, didn't show a view out od the windscreen (viewing angles, speed, that sorta thing)

Sad but true, the video gets a thumb down, though the car seemed pretty neat.

[fullychargedshow]

@Jesus45U all fair comments. My only excuse being that I had limited time with the car, it's not finished yet and a lot of the specs are changing as they get close to being finished, this was a favour done to me by the wonderful guys at Delta and I promise to do better next time.

[Jesus45U]

@fullychargedshow

Fair enough, and good to hear - Because your punishment for this sloppy video is to make a better one !!

*cracks whip*

... once the car is good and ready for it, offcourse. :)

[UNITYN]

@fullychargedshow Motor manufacturers generally dont allow journalists to even see their test bed/mule/protoype vehicles let alone ride along in them. During the video it can clearly be heard that this is one of 5 such vehicles. Please follow up with these guys over the next 12 months if possible to keep us informed on their progress. One question, was the quoted 125 mile range with the smaller or larger battery pack?

[marshgre]

@UNITYN I think they said it was a small battery. I also think that they were doing a lot of performance type driving. That would eat through the electrons rather quickly.

[NickCarpenter]

Thanks everyone for your comments. The first 5 cars actually have 32kWh battery packs (not 21kWh Robert!!). To answer a few of your questions:

1. We expect to re-mount the vacuum pump in a new location to isolate it (much) better.

2. The interior (apart from the bits that were missing when Robert filmed this) is designed to be minimalist - keeps the weight down.

3. The 2WD car weighs 970kg, including 65kg for the chassis and 350kg of batteries!

Feel free to ask anything else,

Nick C

[Jesus45U]

@NickCarpenter

When isolating vibration, rubber mountings really make a big difference. But also different types of pumps have different types of noise. Screw pumps for example, have a very smooth and low noise. Not to mention that a pump with lower rotational speeds of it's internals may produce a sound that is easier to isolate, than one running at a fever pitch.

I'm guessing you are currently using an (internal) gear pump as it is, yes ?

[JRP3]

@NickCarpenter In that case 120 miles from a 32kWh battery pack is rather poor, if that is indeed the maximum range, or is that only what you've tested to? I'd expect much better than that for such a lightweight vehicle if aerodynamics are good.

[NickCarpenter]

@JRP3 More than 120 miles should be reasonably easy to achieve, but we've found that when you find yourself in a fast, sporty car your right foot tends to get pretty heavy! Working on the NEDC (a standard but very gentle drive cycle), more like 140 miles is achievable, but we believe that the drive cycle itself is unrealistic...

[JRP3]

@NickCarpenter Certainly trying to pin down a range with all the variable driving parameters is difficult. I'm not familiar with the NEDC driving cycle, is it similar to the LA4 cycle? The LEAF got 100 miles on the LA4 cycle with it's 24 kWh pack, giving it 240 wh/mi, which would give it 133 miles from a 32 kWh pack. Tesla Roadster got 240 miles on the LA4 with a 53 kWh pack, 220 wh/mi. I'd expect your car to do even better. Do you have cd and cdA numbers for the car?

[NickCarpenter]

@JRP3 The LA4 cycle (I've usually seen is referred to as the Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, UDDS) is very gentle. It has a brief trip to 55mph but an average speed of less than 20mph - very much an urban cycle. The NEDC (New European Drive Cycle) is a little more aggressive than that (not sure if it's possible to attach an Excel file of data points!), and the Artemis cycle is more realistic again. Our Cd is 0.27, and from memory frontal area is 1.65m2.

[JRP3]

@NickCarpenter The Cd is a bit higher than I expected but if that frontal area number is correct then the CdA is around the early Honda Insight which is pretty good. I've been watching the Yasa motors for a while and hoping to see them being used in a vehicle, looking forward to see how this all turns out.

[avada0]

@NickCarpenter

Hello!

Didn't see you were commenting here. What kind of motor do you use for direct drive? AC? DC? Permanent magnet rotor or coils? Also what is that noise we can hear while driving the car. Someone said it sounds like gears. Although I doubt it.

[JRP3]

@avada0 Google "Yasa" motors.

[NickCarpenter]

@avada0 The motors are from Oxford YASA Motors - an axial flux permanent magnet machine that develops 750Nm torque per "slice".

The noise you can hear is the vacuum pump (for the brake servo) which we'll be repositioning & isolating further at some point soon.

[avada0]

@NickCarpenter

So 1500 for the two motors. More than bulky pick-ups' motors' can deliver.

I actually meant the higher pitched sound. But then I foun your videos for the motors, so I think that's the motors sound.

[marshgre]

@NickCarpenter Are you planning to go into larger production?

[JRP3]

Very nice work. 120 miles on 21kwhs of batteries is pretty good. Obviously in a finished vehicle with an interior most of the noise people are commenting on will be gone. My EV has a rather noisy vacuum pump as well but buried in the back corner of the trunk on a piece of foam you can't hear it when driving.

[robinyatesph]

this car is exciting, the looks, the doors, the general feel is right. I personally do not like the Tesla but this English model is the dogs bollocks !

[LowKey630]

Did he discuss the interior noise of the vacuum pump and if it'll be as brash in the final production?

[marshgre]

@LowKey630 I think it was so loud because the interior was incomplete and there was possibly no dash. (I think they were driving the one that they showed with the laptop hooked up to it.) But if you ignore the noise of the vacuum pump the car is impressively quiet.

[Boodieman72]

Did they have any idea when they would be finished with them?

[IamVerilance]

as was stated it is not completely finished so any specific specs would be useless

[MrChrisRab]

Too bad the director didn't give any specs: we barely learnt anything, apart from the name and the fact that there is a a "really cool touch screen". ='(

[fullychargedshow]

@MrChrisRab You make a very good point but as IamVerilance pointed out, the car is still unfinished. I could put specs in the video but it can put some off. However, the car currently uses 2 axial flux motors made by YASA motors of Oxford, a spin off company from Oxford University. Each of these motors produces over 100 hp but as they are still experimental, a lot of the specifics are still to be revealed. At present it has a 21 kwh battery pack but they can fit a much larger battery.

[MrChrisRab]

@fullychargedshow Thanks for that info!

[DanFrederiksen]

how much did it weigh? how big was the battery pack?

will there be interior padding on the car.

it's interesting to note that vibration dampening/sound suppression is a key engineering discipline. obviously the car works but it has a tinny sound and it sounded like it had some creaks too and the picky masses will probably thumb their noses at it.

good direction though with aerodynamics and low weight. with the right pack they should be able to beat the tesla

[fullychargedshow]

@DanFrederiksen These are all good important questions. I will be shooting a much bigger, in depth look at the car when it is finished and I will include a lot of specs then. This really was a sneak peak at what is clearly going to be an amazing vehicle.

[myozone]

I can see in the near future 'car tuners' saying things like - they have the hacked 8.12 alpha firmware or they have the open source 2000 amp controller etc, rather than the 'normal' exhaust headers/intakes/turbo, lumpy camshafts etc !

[qpoon]

Want one. doesn't half look expensive though.

[jamiehasnomercy]

i would be very interested to see how the carbon fibre chassis copes with pot holes. If they need a tester for those 12 months im avaliable!

[marshgre]

@jamiehasnomercy Me too. And here in Nova Scotia we have the best pot hole test facility on the planet. It's called the public road. Our temperatures are moderated by the gulf stream going past on it's way to south Ireland / England. Warmest provence in Canada - But BC gets all the Electric test cars :-(

[IconOfSin88]

I want one of those.

[bodryn]

I can easily imagine a scenario where you would normally drive with 2 wheels powered, but in emergencies, easily flip a switch to 4 wheel drive to get out of mud or snow. I also realize the electric motor sounds could be easily muffled as the car is perfected. Few moving parts, few things to go wrong. Looks great to me!

[marshgre]

@bodryn 4 wheel drive on a car like this would be used full time to improve road (track) holding. Think Audi Quatro.

[bodryn]

@marshgre OK. I don't object to that concept. As an old farm kid, I think back to countless situations when there was suddenly no traction, and the idea of extra help to get me out appeals to me. If 4WD is always on, could get overconfident. I also live in snow country, where many vehicles often can't travel. Sometimes even front end loaders can't go. Also, for cold weather country, the type of battery is important - needs to work well even in subzero temps.

[marshgre]

@bodryn You background sounds like mine. We had an old homebuilt tractor (2 wheel drive). My father has always said "4X4=just stuck more". Of course when my brothers were 12 and 14 they thought having dual wheels on meant they could go anywhere.... Took a backhoe and a Bombardier crawler to dig and pull the poor old Vauxhall Viva tractor out of what they now describe as a bottomless swamp ;-)

[bodryn]

@marshgre A similar story: once we got hit by a late season snowstorm, our schoolbus got stuck on the way to school. A neighbor about half a mile away still used horses for some things - the driver went over to that farm, the farmer came and pulled the bus out with a team of horses. I never forgot that - horses could go where even 4 wheel drives couldn't go. Think of the team as an 8-legged winch, eh? Could we design a mechanical horse? :-)

[marshgre]

How complete was the interior of the car? Other than the brake booster motor there was very little unpleasant noise (road / wind). Do they have a target range for this vehicle? This is an impressive car indeed.

[IconOfSin88]

@marshgre Well, look at it! There's nothing unnecessary inside the car, prohibiting access to whatever they need to use. It's a test/project vehicle, so there's no need for end-user interiors.

[marshgre]

@IconOfSin88 I wasn't complaining. I just impressed that an obviously incomplete vehicle is so quiet. If I ripped the dash / interior out of an ICE car the noise would be almost deafening. This really highlights how quiet an electric car can be. More than a fully completed and insulated car would.

[IconOfSin88]

@marshgre Sorry if I sounded preachy, it was unintentional. Yea, it would have been interesting to know if it had anything a 'finished' car would have in it.

[polpotsdog]

exciting.....its like the dawn of a proper exciting time. electric cars.......the death of the gasoline engine ? maybe not yet.....but I love the passion.