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From: ph0en1xxash
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  • Jesus really is a scary documentary.

  • Would she have REALLY not denied her faith with a sword at her throat.What a load of s..t

  • This is all so juvenile... I can't take people literally believing in "holy" books written by men 100 years after these "prophets" were around. It's beyond ridiculous.

  • @osgangstarrr He means that Jesus died for us when he said "blood sacrifice".

  • Sandy The SUN of god that Is the light of the world!!!!!!! appears every morning except when it is cloudy, take a peak WAKE UP TO THE BULL SHIT YOU"VE BEEN TAUGHT!!!!. I was taught the same crap for 53 years. The truth INDEED will set you free

  • Religion = Schizophrenia ~ Great analysis.

  • @osgangstarrr

    even better is to think of religion as a marketing scheme. A pyramid scheme.

  • Bill Maher should read the Bhagavad Gita. It presents God as a Person. Christianity has a lot of holes in it, but still faith in God is better than nothing. The symptom of the soul is consciousness. Is Bill conscious? There are religions that do not give you the full science. Bhakti-yoga does. The Vedas do. But it is a waste of time to attack religion on the basis of atheistic short-sightedness. Bill, you are inferior in knowledge, but superior in empty pride.

  • @Tirthapada You should read about 1) epistemology 2) ontology.

  • @Tirthapada Are you stupid? The most rational religion is Buddhism as it focuses on bettering oneself as opposed to submission to a mere figure created by humans to answer the difficult questions of life and to keep everyone in line.

  • God has nothing to do with RELIGION.Man created a religion for control.

  • Oh, but Jesus does command that unbelievers be killed Mark 19:27

    "But those who are my enemies, who would not want me to reign over them, Bring them here, and slay them before me."

    Christianity, like Islam....like most religions...is intollerant and hateful of disbelief and disobedience to its dogma.

  • @METRATR0N . I looked in my bible for the verse you quoted above (mark 19:27). Not sure you gave the correct chapter and verse or even the correct book. Mark has only 16 chapter with 20 verses.

  • @sbrcloquet You are right. That should have been Luke 19:27, not Mark.

    "But those mine enemies, which wouldnot that I should reignover them, bringhither, and slay them before me."

  • Uh, didn't Peter reject Jesus not once but only 3 times to save his own life?

  • @MyloDude22 Oops, meant to say "not only once but 3 times..." lol

  • Religion is not familiar ground for me, and as I have grown older, I have definitely drifted away from it. I have something else in its place, something older than just intellect and reason, which gives me strength and hope. I have grown entirely to rely on the workings of the mind. Perhaps they are weak supports to rely upon, but, search as I will, I can see no better ones.

  • @kaykko I would also suggest, friend, the far more powerful heart, from where the greatest thoughts come.

  • This all means SO much more in retrospect.

  • I can't believe Bil Maher has invited Reza Aslan a member of NIAC (the most famous lobby of Pisslamic regime of Iran in US) to his show.

    NIAC has not only never condemnd or mentioned any crimes of pisslamic regime of Iran, but also has always defended them.

    I dont know why any motherfucker moslim should immigrate to west, why the fuck dont you go to Mecca if you really believe in that shit.

  • the actor and the fox news girl are both idiots

  • It's very natural for friends to lay down their lives for each other. It has existed, and exists today, in non-Christian cultures. Again, Christians think they have a hold on truth.

  • you can't reason with religious fanatics. theres a guy that makes chrisianity videos, and i tried asking him about greater beeings, and how all religions are based on the same idea. everytime he answered it was with some quotes from the bible, and about how i am dammed and jesus is the only way. I belive there's a God, and i dont think he'd want us to be so close minded.

  • @theDudeAbides1100 . If a person does not confess he is a sinner, truly repent of his sins, and accept that Jesus is the son of God and believe Jesus died once for all as the blood sacrafice to wash away our sins then ,yes, the Bible is clear that unbelievers will spend eternity in the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Not closed minded at all. We all have the free will; we can either accept Him or reject Him. Gods peace.

  • @sbrcloquet again, bible verses. that's waht bothers me. noone can explain from a neutral stand. There's so many religions in the world, how can you be soo sure christianity is right, or that what the bible says is true? that's what i meant by close minded. people keep feeding me bible verses like it's the one true thing to belive in.

  • @sbrcloquet Please re-read what you said! That is a classic fear-based control mechanism propagated by the power structures hundreds of years ago to maintain power! You are closed minded, I feel sorry for you. Blood sacrifice? What is this a cult?! Mankind is sickening!

  • 6:28 Sorry honey, read your Bible. What happened to the Canannites?

  • love the muslim guy,, and iam a jew

  • I love Bill Maher, but his argument regarding "superiority" was rather idiotic, especially when he implicated religious people to it. Perhaps it's true that the christian lady feels as if she has a truth that has eluded Bill, but Bill also believes that he has a truth that the christian lady has eluded, namely, the man-made nature of religion. Religion is obviously bullshit, but it irritates me to hear a weak argument of this sort.

  • @chapstickman34 Yes, and I find this particular point difficult to handle, I mean I believe that religion is bullshit but I can't help myself thinking that I'm being arrogant by saying it. Nevertheless we shouldn't forget that it's just a problem of logical inferences, and logic isn't reality in many cases, I mean come on the evidence is overwhelming we all can see that and Bill Maher to.

  • I am not superstitious I am just a little stitious

  • Guess what happened to me! I went swimming the other day when all the suuden a whale swallowed me whole. Naturally i decided to chill there for a spell. After a few days deliberation that damn whale shit me out. I almost drowned when this dude drained the deep blue sea pulled me out then filled the sea back up again. I thanked him then i stumbled upon this HUGE boat and it had 2 of every animal on it. I dont know how that damn thing floated with all that animal shit on it. Hell of a day huh?

  • people of faith use their beliefs for good & bad. look at the tea party. they use their faith 2 justify their hatred of any1 unlike them. they ignore the teachings of christ when it suits them. they are no different than fanatic muslims. they raise their kids to hate. is that what christ taught? christ taught tolerance, love, acceptance, & a better way thru these things. The tea party r not followers of christ, tho they say they r. they r hypocrites, using their faith as an excuse 2 spread hate

  • If the Catholic Religion... needs to have so much say....Why is it they do not pay taxes, and gay kind pays? War is made from, people People that say my bible is better than yours, if you don't go by my bible, I have the right to kill you, Cuz my bible says so!! WOW... Thinking back many years ago boys saying my Dads stronger than your Dad.. oh yeah well my dad can beat up your dad!! Just food for thought people.

  • I dont believe in alot of the stupid crap bill maher does (killing unborn children). But he is pretty funny and makes some good points.

  • I actually feel sorry for the woman in this. They were twisting her words a lot and she did have some valid points to make.

  • Oh man... Religious people.... Who can understand them???? They show you to love others, but they hate followers of other believes ..... great teachings!!!

  • The funniest thing about Religion is that they view "non-believers" as inferior, and yet they're the ones with the primitive belief in an all-knowing God who "loves" us. I don't view THEM as inferior, simply misguided.

  • godisimaginary.c()m

    The truth, the cold hard truth. 50 facts that prove the non-existence of the supposed almighty.

  • What a righteous all powerful god that somehow isn't powerful enough to save someone's life without them saying they're a muslim, which in turn just makes him angry, and therefore they are not a real christian. What an all powerful god who isn't powerful enough to do his bidding without people dying for him. If I must die for god, doesn't that mean he's dependent on me thus making me more powerful. What if we made god instead of the other way around? Like how we make moral fairy tales.

  • Bill Maher is a fuckin' heathen and a bleeding heart LIBERAL who no longer lives in the USA. He glorified what the terrorists did on 9/11.

    anonymous are n00bs.

  • That woman's ignorance is astounding!

  • "I'm still waiting for you to find Mohammad" He hit the nail right on the head with that side comment

  • I think all Christian that want to lay down their lives for Christ should do it. So many nasty. dirty, filthy, mean, disgusting tea baggers. would disappear! No greater boon could happen to the living on this Earth.

  • @onebaud My sentiments exactly. If it is so damn wonderful up there on god's lap (special meaning for catholics), what the fuck are they waiting for? Leave me to my heaven here on earth. Oh, and take the harps, hymnals, and tea-clanners of all persuasions with you. I'm sure you can squeeze them in.

  • Who cares what YOU believe.....It's what I believe that matters.

  • The early Christians were fed to the Lions, what a terrible thing to do! can you just imagine the awful indigestion and acute gas those poor cats must have suffered, having to swallow all that hate and bitterness, Oh the inhumanity of it all!

  • @electbassplayer24 Being atheist is perfectly fine, but mocking innocent Men, women, and children who died for their beliefs is just wrong, and saying things like that doesn't make you look funny, it makes you look like a pathetic sad excuse for a person.

  • @polishguy994 Me thinks you dost protest too much! and you right wing radicals take yourselves far too serious!

  • @electbassplayer24 Why do you think I'm conservative? I'm a devout liberal.

  • @electbassplayer24

    Who sounds more hateful and bitter?

  • @jeffandjoesports Call it what yuh want! today there is another group of so called Christian Heretics at work destroying this country and the working class people that built it and defended it with their blood my man and they would be the Republicans! the sorry legacy that the Bushes and Regan left us, Oh come 2012 those motherfuckers are all going to be served their walking papers, ah that is if Iran doesn't nuke us first!

  • @electbassplayer24

    You, my friend, are an asshole. If I was a Muslim and made a joke about my bullets having a hard time going through the thick skull of an "infidel" you would think me a ghastly, terribly immoral individual.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. Shame on you and on the 43 narrow-minded, unintelligent slugs who apparently share your sickness.

  • @AgApE010 You, my friend, are an asshole. your comment directed at me proves my point! you poor Bible thumping psalm singing sonofabitches! may you all burn in Hell along side of the Rev. wrong Fat faced jowled Falwell!

  • People are good by nature but religion tells them that they are not good by nature. Religion does not teach responsbility, but teaches dependicy on some believe that will that somebody will save you. The truth is only you can save youself by being open mined and not depeding on ther people to give you the answers. Have faith on yourself and let no fear in.

  • People are good by nature but religion tells them that they are not good by nature. Religion does not teach responsbility, but teaches dependicy on some believe that will that somebody will save you. The truth is only you can save youself by being open mined and not depeding on ther people to give you the answers. Have faith on yourself and let fear in.

  • Faith us just another word for ignorance.

    Surely it's time we all got off the crazy train and started building a society where schools and libraries are funded and focused on using the money we waste on religion.

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  • Superstition is irelevant, yes it might give you comfort, but santa does the same for kids. Just because it makes you feel good doesnt mean it's true and It doesnt mean you should die for it. I mean we can easily get morality from discussion without mythology. There isnt any proof, not a shred. Until then can we all get on with our lives

  • @moroney1 Not a spread of proof regarding what? Are ya unenlightened a bit, perhaps?

    anonymous are n00bs.

  • @moroney1 SANTAS NOT REAL???? :o

  • @JozefButterfield of course he's real silly!

  • I am amazed at how blinded by the distractions this country seems to be! We are being led like lambs to the slaughter and all the majority of Americans care about is playing video games,getting high and what their clueless celebrity role model is tweeting. Are Americans stupid? You tell me?! We better wake up and stop letting the media conrol us before we have NO freedom or democracy! Read your bible...We are EXACTLY like Sodom and Gomorrah.They turned their backs on God and were destroyed!

  • @jutoman83 I DID read the bible, and I’m just stumped. The book says Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed because of their gay population. Now, everyone knows that gays spend 90% of their time sinning with each other. So when old Jehovah sent down his blasting flames O’ wrath, the guy on top would have shielded the guy on the bottom. Thus, only half of the gays would have been killed by this roasting, and holy, genocide. But the bible says they all died.

    Oh well, guess I need more theology.

  • @chrismca LoL :)

  • CHRIST the Lord will return, that day of reckoning is coming, and there will be no one to protect any of you! He's coming in the clouds, there is no secret rapture.

  • So the Bible has truth to it

  • For those that challenge how old the earth is whether its 4.5 billion years old or 6000 years old is the answer is this Science proved that the Bible is true in the fact that civilization is about 6000 years old.. which means the moment man found God man laid down the first stone to start the first civilization. And science provided how old the earth is and how old the first civilization is..

  • Religion should be a bridge, not a divide.

  • *scary

    

  • it only gets scray when extremism exists and irrationality rules

  • who seems to be the most brainwashed???......that dumb christian woman sorry to say you can clearly see the giant holes in Christianity

  • World capitalism is the monetary exploitation,suppression and dehumanisation of the working class. A destructive socio-econmic minority imposition where CORPORATIONS and STATES have emerged as the dominant institutions of power and control. Capitalism is the process of ABSTRACT CAPITAL ACCUMULATION in a market mechanism of artificial scarcity and wage slavery. A moneyless,classless,stateless humanity sharing the EARTH IN COOPERATION is the only SANITY FOR HUMANITY.

  • TEERZ OF CHRIST? FUCK IT.

  • LOVE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!

    

  • a christian extremist killed 92 friday.

    were catching up to them

  • He was up to Six Oreos a day ! lmao

  • Perhaps someone should point out to obvious liars like those on this panel, that what Christians or other people claim about God and Jesus has no relevance to either God or the teachings of Jesus, any more than what people claim about the shape of the earth has any relevance to the shape of the earth. Bill Maher = extremely poorly educated human being, at best.

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  • ok don't know what's wrong with my PC. but I am unable to reply to comments

    so this ones for MrLupe275

    any one that talks down to another person in the way this woman did is Condescending , intolerant , self righteous & opinionated

    also I've read a couple of your comments & I hate to burst your bubble , but Hitler was one of yours

  • @hawkertruffelsnout

    yes but that is one person. Is it ok for me to think all white people are racist if one is. no thats just ignorant. regarding hitler didnt know. Ive been to many sites where they call him atheist. But my main point stemmed from the fact that using one person to label a group is rather stupid

  • No... It's not just people but it's also the religion that is violent says I. If you actually bother reading the Bible and the Quran then you will realize that the books hold, whilst some rather happy messages peppered in here and there, very violent and bloodthirsty stories of stonings, wars, and slaughters all endorsed by the god of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

  • @Heyprinny

    Not necessarily. Any violent person can easily twist initially well intentioned messages into war declarations. If you take the worst christians you will get the crusades. If you take the worst muslim terrorism. Is it then fair to say the bible and quaran are wrong. Bad people are bad people end of story. i dont point to stalin and hitler as posterboys for atheism because im not narrow minded enough to think they represent all atheist

  • @MrLupe275 You should also not cite Hitler as the posterboy for atheism because he wasn't an atheist; he was Roman Catholic Christian.

  • @MrLupe275 In society though, if you are a practicing christian, muslim, or hebrew, you have to blatantly overlook the violent passages that were probably written in the intention of violence. I've read laviticus and there is some pretty bigoted and violent stuff that can't really be twisted into anything peaceful, so modern day christians really have to ignore chunks of the Bible in order to function in society.

  • @drweedy Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.

  • @1tabligh But it isn't just misinterpretation. Responsible people also need to be smart enough to ignore certain verses in there doctrine. In Leviticus, it implies is that if you are gay, you should have a rock thrown at your head. When extremists act on that, they are not misinterpreting it, they are following it word for word. Moderate religious people say that they follow the religion right and radicals are not. When in reality moderates are the ones trying to altering it in a good way.

  • @drweedy Western intellectuals were aware only of the superstitious aspect of false religion and how the established dogmas of religion lacked all logical basis, so they had no hesitation in condemning religion as such to be baseless. Their judgment was based on their discouraging experiences with their own religion, and it could not fail, then, to be hasty, unrealistic, irrational and illogical.

    

  • @1tabligh But you honestly have to admit that in order to be a good Christian or Muslim you can not just follow your religious book word for word. And at least two-thirds of scientists are either atheist or agnostic. There can be good philosophy in religion but the supernatural events that take place in religion to me seem highly unlikely.

  • Islam demands from its followers to believe in God, the Creator of the Universe, but it does not advise them to base such a belief on the statement of any religious book or any authoritative words, not even the word of the Holy Qur'an or of the holy Prophet. Our belief in a holy book, such as the Qur'an, or in a holy prophet, such as Mohammad, must be preceded by our belief in God.

  • @1tabligh How do you know that the prophet is telling the truth. Jim Jones and people in Heaven's Gate came acrossed as prophets and even used some of the same tone as those in religious text, but were they really the speaking for god.

  • @drweedy Do scientific discoveries and knowledge cause such a scientist to conclude that matter, *** unknowing and unperceiving ***, is his creator and that of all beings?

  • @1tabligh Over two-thirds of scientists are atheist or agnostic. Some believe that there could be a force in the universe but they cannot connect it to a religious text written in the bronze age.

  • @drweedy Over two-thirds of scientists are atheist .....

    _____

    Your Pseudo-Scientific Demagoguery does NOT at all help cure your delusions!

    Your delusions that science has put out the notion of God is purely *rhetorical* and has nothing to do with logical method, because even thousands of scientific experiments could not possibly suffice to demonstrate that no non-material being or factor exists.

    Your claim is nothing more than a *fanatical* illusion based on unproven theories.

  • @1tabligh I'm agnostic. I believe that know one can prove either way if there is or if there isn't a supernatural force to the universe. So why have the discussion? Let alone not being able to prove if there is a god, how does someone prove believing in a specific religious text? I find it odd that material written in the bronze age be more accurate than what we know now.

  • Views such as these derive directly from a system of thought centered on materialism; within it, everything is defined and delimited with reference to materialism.

    To interpret materialism in such a sense is in the final analysis strictly meaningless; it would be a superstitious notion involving the perversion of truth, and to regard it as scientific would, in fact, be *treason* to science.

    Even if the followers of a religious school of thought had no proofs for their claim,

  • @1tabligh Do you seriously think that atheists & agnostics have a perverted sense of reality. I think it is pretty obvious that most skeptics think they are being objective and not blindly buying into tradition. You cannot sincerely minimize the fact that over two-thirds of scientists are skeptics.

  • to conclude firmly and forcibly that non- being reigns beyond the sensory realm would be a non-scientific choice, based on imagination and speculation.

    Some people try to propagate this *fantasy* in the garb of science and to present their choice as having been dictated by scientific thought. In the final analysis, however, the denial involved in such an assertion is unworthy of science and philosophy, and even *contradicts* empirical logic.

  • @1tabligh Do you ever feel that you are just being a lawyer for the concept of religion and not ever questioning it.

  • @drweedy Before he enters the realm of science and knowledge with all its concerns, man is able to perceive certain truths by means of these innate perceptions. But after entering the sphere of science and philosophy and filling his *brain* with various proofs and deductions, he may forget his natural and innate perceptions or begin to doubt them. It is for this reason that when man moves beyond his innate nature to delineate a belief, differences begin to appear.

  • @1tabligh So is it okay if I think that a flying spaghetti monster is really the creator of the universe? And besides that, before people knew anything about science they would make pointless sacrifices and even kill others to so-called please there gods. Science is the main reason the world has logic.

  • God and Empirical Logic.

    One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".

    Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?

  • @1tabligh So I guess people don't have to be logical. If someone thinks the world is 5000 years old is that okay with you?

  • @drweedy Is it logical to say that belief in God is peculiar to those who know nothing about man's composition and creation, and that, by contrast, a scientist who is aware of the natural laws and factors responsible for man's growth and development, who knows that law and precise calculation preside over all stages of man's existence, is bound to believe that matter, lacking all perception and consciousness, is the source of the wondrous laws of nature?

  • @1tabligh Well again, as an agnostic I believe there could be a god that created the universe, but we don't know so how is it practical to subscribe to sets of rules that were created in the bronze age. Isn't better to say, "I don't know and you don't know."

  • @drweedy Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?

    ******"If someone thinks the world is 5000 years old is that okay with you?"**** And where did you pull that from?

    I am not a Christian!

    I am a Shiite Muslim!

  • @1tabligh I know the Quran doesn't necessarily say that but you surely have to Evangelical Christians who openly deny science. Plus doesn't the Quran say that salt and fresh water don't mix and that their prophet flew into heaven?

  • The Holy Qur'an does not define the age of the universe in any way. Science so far is not able to tell **exactly** when the universe began. Could be into billions of years. The door is kept open to any scientific theory, so the religious information will not clash with any scientific knowledge.

  • @1tabligh In many religions there scripture does clash with science. If you look at the religious right in America they openly deny evolution, they think the earth is 5000 years, old and they are Pro-Israel because they think it's existence will lead to an apocalypse. But I did hear that in the Quran that salt water and freshwater don't mix.

  • @drweedy If man, through the application of scientific instruments and criteria, cannot perceive the existence of a thing, he cannot deny its existence simply because it is incompatible with material criteria, unless he disposes of some proof that the thing in question is impossible.

  • @1tabligh Actually, I'm pretty sure it's still not necessary to prove a negative.

  • @irefusetodiWe can raise precisely the same objection against the atheists and ask them, "If we follow the chain of causality back, we will ultimately reach the primary cause. Let us say that cause is not God, but matter. Tell us who created primary matter. You who believe in the law of causality, answer us Ws: if matter is the ultimate cause of all things, what is the cause of matter?

    You say that the source of all phenomena is matter-energy; what is the cause and origin of matter-energy?"

  • @1tabligh What is the cause of gods?

  • @Strangerinasland The Creator of the universe cannot be preceded by non-existence; otherwise, He would need another god to create Him; and that god, if he is preceded by non-existence, would need another god and so on. Thus, we would have an endless chain of gods without reaching a **causeless cause** to be the source of the existence of the universe.

    Then we have to deny the existence of the universe. We would also have to deny ourselves because we are a part of the universe. ...

  • But you say to yourself: I cannot do that because I am here. Then you have to say: God is there.

  • His Existence is not coming into Being from non-existence.

    If in the course of developing the argument of the orderliness of the universe we attempt to prove the existence of a maker similar to the human maker, the divine maker will, in reality, also be a created being on the level of man; proving the existence of such a maker is an entirely different matter from proving the existence of the Maker and Creator of all being.

  • @1tabligh It is not a different matter.

    Answer the question. 

  • @Strangerinasland From a scientific point of view, the self-origination of matter is impossible; the theory that the material world is constantly evolving and advancing toward higher states is clearly contradictory to scientific data and the realities of nature. All development and motion in the mineral realm is due either to the intervention of a will external to matter or to attraction, interchange, ....

  • @1tabligh check what I am opposing first,"All development and motion in the mineral realm is due either to the intervention of a will external to matter or to attraction, interchange,and compounding with other bodies." My question is, how did you come to the conclusion that the development of materials, such as minerals, needs to begin by an external means? Would it not be sufficient to say that we don't know yet how it began, and we're working on it? Isn't it foolish to assume we already know?

  • @Dacurath God and Empirical Logic.

    Matter or God?

    Take your choice!

    Some brainless atheists regard matter as independent and imagine that it has itself gained this freedom and elaborated the laws that rule over it.

    But how can they believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?

  • @1tabligh Well, when you say God, which god, and what religion, or just god with no religion? It's harder to distinguish when you just say god, because i have no idea which god your referencing. In any case, I don't think the choice is between Matter and God, because Matter we can prove exists to an undeniable certainty, arbitrarily = ~99.∞ So the choice is more between what is more likely to be correct vs what isn't. Once we distinguish which is more likely, we can make a better assumption.

  • @Dacurath Well, when you say God, which god, and what religion, or just god with no religion?

    _____

    I am a Shiite Muslim and my religion is Islam

    I make a claim of ONE God ( Allah, Lord, Gud, Khuda, etc ) then I will produce the evidence to back it up!

    Anyone who claims otherwise, etc or anything for that matter has to back it up!

    Call Him by whatever name you like (Allah, Jehovah, God, Merciful, Bhagwan etc), as long as the word is not contaminated, (does not conjure

  • up a mental picture) Ex, if We say Muhammad, We conjure up a mental picture of an arab, who lived in mecka 1356 years ago .. or something like that, therefore Muhammad is not God, why? because we conjure up something in the mind. Similarly any words like Jesus (a jew, Bethlehem, .. AD), Budha etc or any creation are NOT to be used for God.

    In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

    Say: "Invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious:

    by whichever name you invoke Him,

  • He is always the One -- for His are all the attributes of perfection."

    The Quran 17:110

    Materialism imagines that lowly objects are the source for the emergence of higher objects without troubling to ascertain whether the higher, in fact, exists at the level of the lower. If lowly matter is unable even at the highest stage of its development, namely thought and reflection— ....

  • either to create itself or to violate any of the laws that rule over it, it follows ineluctably that it is unable to create other beings and the laws regulating them. How, then, can it be believed that lowly matter should engage in the creation and origination of higher beings or have the power to bestow existence on lofty phenomena?

  • @1tabligh cont. Matter is not independent, you are right to ridicule in that respect. However, when we address the things such as elements (H,He,C,N,O) These are chemical components that are produced as a result of active protons and neutrons. If you keep going far enough, you'll hit the wall of quantum physics. If there's any evidence of god. We'll find it in quantum physics. As far as logic, I don't see a problem with believing that god started it all, or not. I just don't know.

  • @Dacurath As far as logic...

    ___

    Belief in the existence of a wise creator is without doubt more logical than faith in the creativity of matter, which has neither perception, consciousness, nor the ability to plan; we cannot attribute to matter all the properties and attributes of intelligence that we see in the world and the ordering will that it displays.

  • Is it logical to say that belief in God is peculiar to those who know nothing about man's composition and creation, and that, by contrast, a scientist who is aware of the natural laws and factors responsible for man's growth and development, who knows that law and precise calculation preside over all stages of man's existence, is bound to believe that matter, lacking all perception and consciousness, is the source of the wondrous laws of nature?

  • Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?

  • @1tabligh NO

  • ...produced as a result of active protons and neutrons. ...

    ____

    Then how can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?

  • @1tabligh Where did the 'unmoved Mover' come from then?

  • @2001Horatio Where did the 'unmoved Mover' come from then?

    ____

    His Existence is not coming into Being from non-existence.

    If in the course of developing the argument of the orderliness of the universe we attempt to prove the existence of a maker or "'unmoved Mover'" similar to the human maker, the divine maker will, in reality, also be a created being on the level of man; proving the existence of such a maker is an entirely different matter from proving the existence of

  • @1tabligh You say "His Existence is not coming into Being from non-existence" - but this breaks the rule that 'everything must have a Maker" - it proves nothing

  • Since the chain of causality cannot recede into infinity, they can answer only that matter is an eternal and timeless entity for which no beginning can be posited: matter is non-created, has no beginning or end, and its being arises from within its own nature.

    This means that the materialists accept the principle of eternity and non-origination; they believe that all things arose out of eternal matter and that being arises from within the very nature of matter, without any need for a creator.

  • @1tabligh Ya got me - I'm Saved!!!

  • @2001H.In just the same way that atheist regards matter as eternal, believers in God attribute eternity to God. Belief in an eternal being is then common to materialist and religious philosophers: both groups agree that there is a primary cause, but believers in God regard the primary cause as wise, all-knowing, and possessing the power of decision and will, whereas in the view of the materialists, the primary cause has neither consciousness, intelligence, perception, nor the power of decision.

  • @1tabligh I don't have much problem with the existence of a "God" - my main beef is with human intermediaries and the 'religions' they have fabricated to give themselves status they would not gain in any other way - e.g. Oral Roberts, Buchannan, and that other fuckwit whose name I've forgotten - religion is a problem: God isn't.

  • @2001Horatio Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.

  • Eternity means stability and immutability of essence, the impossibility of cessation, but matter/energy is in its essence a compendium of forces and potentialities; it is relativity itself, totally caught up in living and dying.

  • Thus, the removal of God in no way solves the problem posed by eternal being.

    Moreover, matter is the locus for motion and change, and its motion is dynamic and situated within its own essence. Now, essential motion is incompatible with eternity, and matter and essential stability are two mutually exclusive categories that cannot be fused in a single locus.

  • Whatever is stable and immutable in its essence cannot accept movement and change within that essence.

    How do deluded and duped atheists, who believe that matter is accompanied by its antithesis, justify the eternity of matter/energy?

  • @1tabligh Atheists are neither deluded nor duped.

  • the Maker and Creator of all being.

    The Creator of the universe cannot be preceded by non-existence; otherwise, He would need another god to create Him; and that god, if he is preceded by non-existence, would need another god and so on. Thus, we would have an endless chain of gods without reaching a **causeless cause** to be the source of the existence of the universe.

    Then we have to deny the existence of the universe. We would also have to deny ourselves because we are a part of the

  • universe. But you say to yourself: I cannot do that because I am here. Then you have to say: God is there.

    From a scientific point of view, the self-origination of matter is impossible; the theory that the material world is constantly evolving and advancing toward higher states is clearly contradictory to scientific data and the realities of nature. All development and motion in the mineral realm is due either to the intervention of a will external to matter or to attraction, interchange,

  • and compounding with other bodies.

    "Do they imagine that they've been created without any cause, or do they suppose that they are their own creators?" The Quran (52:36) "Have they created the heavens and the earth ? They have no certain belief in what they say" (52:37) Do they have a Lord other than God? No, it is not so; God is exalted above the partners they ascribe to him." (52:43) "Glorified be He in Whose hand is all sovereignty and Who has power over all things." (67:1)

  • We can raise precisely the same objection against the atheists and ask them, "If we follow the chain of causality back, we will ultimately reach the primary cause. Let us say that cause is not God, but matter. Tell us who created primary matter. You who believe in the law of causality, answer us Ws: if matter is the ultimate cause of all things, what is the cause of matter?

    You say that the source of all phenomena is matter-energy; what is the cause and origin of matter-energy?"

  • In other words "Where did the" matter/energy " come from then?"

  • @1tabligh Acting protons and neutrons, typo. In any case, Science doesn't say that these elements produced themselves. It say that we understand up to a point about how these things formed, and then we don't know what is beyond that. I'll take the route that says I don't know because I'm not going to assert that the elements formed themselves. We don't know, I don't understand why it's so hard to say we haven't figured everything out yet. I try to be honest with my Q or A to the unknown.

  • @Dacurath Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow *fortuitously* emerged out of *mindless* matter?

  • @1tabligh cont.. (make sure to check the previous comment) Further, is it wise to conclude that we know all the possible ways that this "mineral realm" can come about in only two possible ways? Is it not true that we cannot know anything 100%, or can we know something that is always constant? I try not to assume anything, and if you argue that we need to make assumptions or that we know, the burden of proof is on you to prove your case. Otherwise, I leave you to your non-evidential assumptions.

  • and compounding with other bodies.

    "Do they imagine that they've been created without any cause, or do they suppose that they are their own creators?" The Quran (52:36) "Have they created the heavens and the earth ? They have no certain belief in what they say" (