A beautiful song, written by our most famous Bard. But to those listening, whether for or against Independence, remember that was a poem written in 1791. Very much a different time.
Whichever side of the argument you fall upon, don't give into hate and intolerence. Be patriotic, but not nationislistic. A patriot is someone who loves their country. A nationalist is someone who hates all other countries.
Make sure you decide on what is best for your countrymen, whatever that might be.
No, thats not much to ask for at all. However, I fail to see how us being independent would help you out of that. Remember the lack of jobs and money is because of the Global Recession. Britain has been better off than most due to the strength of the pound.
You're definitely not alone in feeling that you just want a job in order to provide for yourself and your family, but no matter who is wholly in charge, you, myself and many others would still be facing the same problem.
@Sccorpy " A nationalist is someone who hates all other countries" That is simply a sweeping statement which holds no water. Certainly as far as Scotland is concerned. The Nats' attitude is that anyone legally living in Scotland is welcome regardless of ethnicity, religion, colour etc. Plus of course they are more pro-european than the UK govt is. so it could be argued they are less insular!
It was something I heard long ago, it's not really to do with political party names but more in actions. You could be part of the Nationalist party but not be a Nationalist person. Would you say a Christian who performs evil deeds is a proper Christian? Thats what I mean.
I'm just saying do whats best for your country but don't let hate or prejudice of others influence your vote.
@Sccorpy "I'm just saying do whats best for your country but don't let hate or prejudice of others influence your vote." With that I totally agree with you.
@Sccorpy That's really not true,its a very misleading statement, a Nationalist does not hate all other countries. I'm a Nationalist I don't hate anyone. Why do you think that? Everyone should be Patriotic about their Country Scots are very Patriotic and a proud people. As a Nation we are tolerant of others and welcoming to visitors from all over the world. Just visit Edinburgh in August you'll see for yourself and will be welcome.
Again, it's a phrase. A person who supports SNP is not a Nationalist person as long as they're voting with good hearts and wanting the best for their fellow countrymen. Also, I'm Scottish myself. Born and bred. Lived here all my life. I know what a wonderful place this is and what wonderful people come from here but like everywhere you get idiots and arseholes who vote with prejudices just because 'We're the best, eff everyone else.'
To support the Nats, is just a a political choice, it doesn't mean your a Nationalistic person. The political party is just that, a party name. I still stand by the quote, be patriotic, not nationalistic. Do whats best, not because of hatred for others. Thats what I mean. I'm sorry if I've been confusing everyone with that, but please reread what I'm saying and really read it.
Who gives a monkey's fart about the language - where it came from - where it's going. It's the country (Scotland) I care about and whenever it happens I will be voting for full separation from our neighbours south of the border. As an English genius once said, "We won't get fooled again".
Is that like "Ulster Scots" is that a language? if it is then so is West Indian Patois, or Cockney Rhyming slang aint a language at all its just a dialect as for P Celtic or otherwise have you been to Halstatt or La Tenne I have just so you know, keep clinging to your hun myth
@Grifflaw scots is in its proper form almost a different language as many english not understand it in its full form.............its the closest english "dialect" to original old english my literature degree friend tells me
At the end of the day who really knows one way or the other? There were obviously different tribes and races that melded into what we now know as Scotland - let us just be glad for the rich legacy we have been left wether it be by Pict, Gael, Saxon, Dane or whomever if you see my meaning
I and many other SNP supporters see what the Republic of Ireland has achieved it's revival of Irish langyuage and culture,and want Scotland to emulate it's successes. (excluding the current market crash of course, although the UK is in a similar if not worse state). As to the reason I used "Alba" and not "Scotland" it was because of the character limit that Youtube utilises in it's posts.
If the SNP want independence, genuinely, they can get it. Honestly, Scottish independence is more possible now than it ever was - the margin between the yes and no votes is tiny, but a tiny majority is all we need. The next few years is all Salmond needs. The opposition is divided, people are relatively open minded. I'm waiting to see what'll happen though - this situation might suit them, god knows. I hope they're committed.
evenly and thinly over the country then it isn't counted as far as seats go. That is why we had a referendum within the last year to see if people wanted to change it. The Lib Dems within the UK as a whole are handicapped with the current system. Labour within Scotland have normally benefited from it as their support tended to be concentrated in the industrial Lowlands giving them lots of seats - far more than their share of the vote.
well if they are really wankers then of course they must be your fellow country men.....i didn't know wankers had their own country?Now that is funny !
funny how some "scots" dont even know their own countrys history,ignorance is something you have to make allowances for i suppose...oh well back to the tartan,shortbread and Fran and Anna records i suppose...............
@kendosendo Wtf son? Most people in scotland were ethnic gaels, brythonic or pictish by 1066. Picts and welshmen de-existed themselves by the middle ages, and then there was gaels, and now the time of anglo scottish lowlanders and their colonial chums.
@Pawnbroker00 most weren't gaels is my point and the others didnt didnt disappear...they changed culture...genetically we are all almost unchaged from pre history.i.e anglo saxons are mostly brits who adopted culture from the few saxons who arrived, as picts/brits adpoted gaelic culture in north scotland from minority gaels(borders were different)...i.e were not all that different from the english,welsh,irish etc...time we stopped moaning about past(flodden etc was when WE invaded England!!!)
@kendosendo Just to wade in here, look at Scotland at night from space. Western highlands can grow Kale and Blacks. Cattle. The area can support a significant population, and did.
Yet the entire area is black.
That's because those Anglo-Scots marched through and killed everyone. The clearances drove out those who managed to hide.
That's why there are 10 million Gaels in Britain and Ireland, and 70 million in the US.
Because your union pals killed or transported all of our ancestors.
@QuietReckoning many clearances were started by the very clan chiefs who claimed lordship over the clans...and thats to do with economics and not race...not many anglo saxon clan chiefs me thinks in scotland.my point is we are all connected,why does everyone want to find a reason to divide,all Brits have a base genetic link that can bring us together,its the politics that separate gael from saxon,scot from english,brit from french....get it....were all very much related and have a lot in common
@kendosendo Yeah, but the economic attacks only came after the military marched through and slaughtered everyone. Economic realities forced most of the young men to join the military, and then the clan chiefs struck when the communities were defenseless, and essentially made up of women and the elderly. Most of those clan chiefs were complicit in either supporting the government in 45 or playing both sides. We're Related? Would you let an abused child stay with the parent who's been raping them?
That's not how I see Scotland or England. That's how I see the Union. The English are not my enemy, nor are the Scots who descend from the ones that tried to kill my ancestors.
The only thing that remains from that time is the sad relic of imperialism that is the Union of 1707.
@QuietReckoning good.but if you prefer clan system, it was based on violence..most "out" at the 45 were there under pain of reprisal.. they tried to force their view on the majority first by guess what, killing.if its the system then decide whose and forget the nationalist rot (the same system killed more English than Scots for power before we think of others) then lets agree its politics/economics not race,"they" and "us" isn't English or Scot, Black or White etc.it isn't even about the union!
@QuietReckoning I want an independent Scotland if we can afford! And out of the EU, and free to run our own affairs without being told by the EU what we can and cannot do, and most importantly! to retain our pound sterling.
@TheCrannTara As opposed to the current UK dictatorship, David Cameron and the Conservatives have only 1 MP out of 59 approx 2.1% of all votes cast in Alba, Nick Clegg has 11 MP's out of 59 approx 6% of all votes cast, therefore the Westminster coalition has at best approx 8% of all votes cast in Alba. Yet they are able to rule over Alba because of English votes, hardly democratic or fair.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky "the Westminster coalition has at best approx 8% of all votes cast in Alba." Your right in that Scotland votes differently - but your stats are way out. The Tories actually received 16.7% of the Scottish vote and the Lib Dems received 18.9% making it a combined 37.6%. Not actually that far behind Labour's 42% share of the total.
@gaconnochie how does ONE MP for the Tories equal 16% of the vote, while 11 MP's for the Lib Dems is only slightly higher at 18.9% why the discrepancy in percentage? My initial point stands Scotland should not be subjected to the policies of a party or parties that it clearly did not vote for, it is highly undemocratic.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky "how does ONE MP for the Tories equal 16% of the vote, while 11 MP's for the Lib Dems is only slightly higher at 18.9% why the discrepancy in percentage? " Because percentage of the vote means how many people out of every 100 voted for the Tories. 16% of people did that - the figures are freely available on the net. The discepency in number of seats gained is because the UK system is first past the post and designed more for two parties just. \if your vote is spread more
@champs98320 I would also add that Wend Alexander is in charge of the Calman Commision a Labour MP who is an ardent pro-unionist and actually had to resign as Labour leader in Alba to financial corruption.
comment on @andrewmcdow. Dude, your not oppressed by anyone anymore and Scots have never been oppressed by the English people. We are all humans subject to the whims of our leaders, some of whom are really hated down here. I'd love to see a referendum and let Scotland choose. All the best brother.
@animationtristan not oppressed, well what do you call David Cameron as Prime Minister being able to foist Tory policies on Alba despite the fact that the Tories only have ONE MP out of Fifty Nine in Alba. The Tories and Lib Dems together in Alba only have 13 MP's out of 59. NOT DEMOCRATIC AT ALL. I'm not trying to deride you as I too would like to see a referendum, but you are aware that all the Unionist parties point blank won't allow an independence referendum in Alba.
Yes it is terrible but as I say this is the act of leaders that never have peoples vested interests at heart (even in Scotland). The unionists will not give this up either and historically they've no real need, Freedom is never given. It must be taken!!! The people must take it. If there is enough people then this will change. If you all want it start taking it and if you all want it you certainly have my blessings. Good Luck man!
Hey, me again. I'm concerned with Irish independence as well as Scottish. I'm concerned with any victim of English opression. My IRA comment was sort of a joke. The Sinn Fein may never accomplish anything because of its association with the militant provisionals.
@andrewmcdow Some funny joke. Isn't terrorism such a laughing matter? Unfortunately it's ignorant onlookers who seek to destabilise the peace process which all parties involved worked so hard to achieve. Also, it's a slight to me to suggest that I am opressed by the English, you have a very strange idea of oppression. Should the majority of Scots want independence, the seccesionist parties would have a majority in the Scots Parliament and could table a referendum. Democracy.
@champs98320 I sense resentment. I'm sorry if I've offended you, and you're right: I'm just an onlooker. I don't have any keen insight into the situation. Thank God I don't have a vote in it! But when I hear that song, I hear the blood of a people crying from the earth. I'm sorry if that moves me.
@andrewmcdow The song is ofcourse about the 'Treaty of Union' 1707 between the Kingdoms of England and Scotland. It wasn't a particular democratic union on either sides: there was no referendum of the peoples. With that said often good can come of bad things, our union isn't quite perfect but I believe that much good comes of it. Some may disagree. We certainly have the democratic framework to dismantle it should we wish. Scotland poetry highly romantisizes history, not entiry pragmatic.
@champs98320 No we don't have the democratic framework to dismantlethe UK as the SNP proposed an independence referendum and all the Unionist parties automatically and unequivocally blocked it and will never allow it to pass or proceed. Insteadm they were able to foist on Alba the shambles that is the Calman commision. Might I also add that Calman is rigged as the civil servant who drafted the proposal is also in charge of advising all the parties and overseeing it's implementation.
Alba and England had combined the crowns and had the same king in 1606 a but tensions arose when England wanted to appoint a Hanoverian Sophie to the throne while the Scots wanted a different king. England also relied heavily on Scottish soldiers to help her fight her wars,and was terrfied Scotland/Alba would align themselves with the French. Thusly Alba was tricked,bribed,bullied you name it into signing the Act Of The Union.
SAOR ALBA! I hope that Alba throws off the English oppressors soon and gains independence. This songs is about the Scottish traitors who were bribed by the English to dissolve the Parliament of the Kingdom Of Scotland and get Alba to pass the Act Of The Union and not to the English as many seem to think.
this corries song i would like to dedicate to PAT WARD LAST SEEN IN isliston london form david garden thanks for the happy (working-years) in oxford 1970 to80
nothing much as changed in scotland pat it more corupt than ever
Judging by a lot of the comments here, people are misunderstanding this song: the nation in question is Scotland, not England, and the rogues are the Scottish establishment. Burns wasn't blaming the English in any way, but the Scots who sold out to them. Like so many of Burns' works this is more socialist than nationalist.
@beakeral .. you see this is a perfect example of an english man, in denial, christ we were only there to help the Scots, we didnt mean to rape murder and destroy your culture forever, yes he was describing the Scots who sold out as a parcel of rogues but if he was writing a poem about the english he would have called ye a shower of english fucking bastards - satans spawn.... if there is a hell the its full of the english thats for sure.. bastards....
@ravetunes .. I'm a Scot actually ravetunes, though one well travelled enough to dislike racist remarks about anyone, English or otherwise. Also, check your bloody history: the culture that was stamped on was Highland, and a hell of a lot of the stamping was done by Lowland Scots. My point was that Burns would have probably had more fellow feeling for a working man from England than for a landed aristocrat from Inverness, and if you doubt that you haven't read his poems very carefully.
@beakeral your no Scot you english bastard now fuck off over the border to your disgusting family of english scum... get some pride in yourself and wake up to what the english did to your country... ya fool...
@ravetunes .. Well, what a persuasive fellow you are, and how proud you make me feel to be Scots. What did the English do to my country? Did they render the natives semi-literate and intolerant, or are those homegorwn maladies?
@ nicolbobyour right but unfortunately we are told what the establishment want us to believe I mean a scottish assembly , no a parcel of rogues ruled by westminster still and subject to english authority and like so many before them only interested in their own pockets scots english and welsh and irish alike sold out by those that govern them for personal gain and glory and to appease the world order and other religous doctrines other than christianity so true still as it was back then
Im English and respect my Scottish neighbours, let Scotland run its own affairs and let us run ours. That way everyone is happy. Seems simple to me. Peace to all.
I think alot of damage has been done by the english to the Scottish and it will be hard to repair, alot of Scottish seem to have a hatred of themselves. Loyalists are traitors and bring shame on the real Scottish it's such a pity that a great nation was brought to it's knees and forced into a union with the english scum and it's an even greater shame that loyalist scots took up arms against their neighbours in Ireland. Alba gu brath
Which 'English' are you talking about? There are many good English people. However, if you mean successive English governments - which have also screwed their own people - I couldn't agree more.
This song applies more today to the Scottish Labore Party than anything else, who have happily lied and cheated Scots for decades, serving their London masters to the end. The plan, simple, keep Scots demoralised and dependent, lie through the media propaganda machine and keep masses dependent on state handouts to such a degree that through fear they will vote for more of the same stagnation instead of daring to bite the hand that (apparently) feeds them! Colonialism in the twenty-first century!
great song a good reminder of the cruel ways of history... it should be noted the Scottish have never been known to lie down and give up, thats for sure!
I can name a few rogues today that fit right into this song, but unlike the Scots in 1707 who almost to a man and woman oppossed the Union but had no say, we'll have our say. The foreign controlled press, radio and tv stations, ESPECIALLY the BBC will do their bit to opposse it, but independence, it's coming.
The new way forward...localisation in a globalised world will come and Scotland shall be independent again...not only that but more independence to communities within Scotland as Scotland is a varied country itself :D
As an American that has lived in Scotland for the last 3 months, doing research for a graduate paper on Scottish Nationalism, I would love to see Scotland become independent from the UK. However I just don't feel the will is there, most people I've talked to seem apathetic, and could give or take independence, and everyone else seems to think economically Scotland could not stand on its own, I disagree with the economic bullocks, business is open and I've been supporting it. Saor Alba!
@evo1dee4life lets remember that most "SCOTS" are not and never were gaels....most have more in common with the English than we admit...we are all brits,despite our diffrences
@kendosendo English is the dominant language because it was forced on the population of Scotland, The English made a concerted effort to rid Scotland of Scots and Gaelic. I would hope an independent Scotland would foster the Gaelic and Scots languages. Alba gu bràth is Gaelic for Scotland forever.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky We should be grown up enough to look at ourselves and not blame the English for everything. It was on the whole the anglified elite in Scotland who organised the oppression of the indiginous Scottish languages. Not the English. After the Education Acts of the 1880s Gaelic campaigners tried to go over the heads of the then so called Scotch Education Dept to the UK govt itself - but Westminster declined to interfere in what it viewed as internal Scottish matters.
@gaconnochie Westminster did restrict the teaching of Scots and Gaelic even after the education acts of the 1800's, take for example I want a driving licence or passport becauuse they are administered by the UK government it is impossible for me to get one exclusively in Sots or Gaelic.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky Aye but Westminster does not mean 'the English'. Scotland pre-devolution was still as far as things like language issues and education goes (ie not macro-economics) run by the Scottish Office! They may have been members of the UK govt but they were Scottish members of the UK govt. If you had a Scottish Office pushing for promotion of Gaelic and Scots with an English controlled govt holding things down then you'd have more of a point. In fact I am sympathetic to your main
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky As a Scot who has voted SNP in the past and could be convinced to do so in the future, I have to say it's people like you who make me think voting SNP is a bad idea. You're wrapped up in pointless feuds that are centuries old and can't see past this bigoted loathing for all things English.
Can't you make the argument for independence without devolving into anti-English bigotry and a whining victimhood for things that happened centuries before you were born?
@kos II can't even now get a driving licence or passport in Gaelic, when I was at college they taught English, French,German, Russian, Mandarin but NOT Gaelic. The best arguments for independence is that Alba would actually get the government she votes for unlike now here we have the Tories and Lib Dems even though Alba soundl rejected them. Also we would control all our resources for the benefit of Scotland and not fritter them to London. You should check the McCrone Report.
@kos Also in the 1950's (in my lifetime although I was very very young) the Queen was coronated yet the Scottish coronation she needed to undertake in Alba at the time was performed behind closed doors because the government at the time stated that "We don't want to acknowledge the fact Alba is a separate kingdom with their own traditions".
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky I'm not sure why you think that reply is relevant to anything I said. I'm also unsure, as one of the 99% of Scots who are Anglophonic, why you use the Gaelic "Alba" in place of the English and Scots "Scotland".
All I can say is that your non sequitur reply reinforces my view that you are a bigot motivated by spite and victimhood and that you have no positive vision for the future of Scotland. I hope there aren't many people like you in the SNP.
@kos You stated in a previous post that many SNP supporters are wrapped up in pointless centuries old feuds and challenged me to make a case for independence without resorting to English bigotry, my point is that most SNP supporters want Scotland to be an independent nation again not based on centuries old feuds like culloden etc but in order that Scotland finally gets a government she votes for and can finally control all her own resources like any other country.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky "English is the dominant language because it was forced on the population of Scotland".
You seem blissfully unaware that throughout history the majority of Lowland Scots haven spoken Scots, a dialect of Old Anglalish that is directly related to English. The Lowland Scots are primarily a mix of Brythonic Celts (i.e. predating the Scots migrations from Irelands) and Anglo-Saxons.
How can you spout all this nonsense when you don't even know your own country's history?
@kos I in fact know a great deal about Scotlands hostory and it is an enduring myth that the Highlanders were the only one's who spoke Gaelic in Scotland. Gaelic was spoken from the Highlands of Scotland right down to Fife at one point being only replaced with Scots in the 17th century.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky I don't know what "hostory" is, so your knowledge of it is irrelevant to me. As for your other claim, I'd like to see a source because every work on Scots linguistic history that I've ever read (as well as all existing toponymical data) says that Gaelic was centred on the West Coast and Highlands and that Scots was spoken in the rest of the country.
I also have to ask why, since you claim to be a Scot, you seem to hate the Scots language.
@kos "Hostory" was a mistake that I failed to notice and should have read History. As for Gaelic being spoke in the lowlands I presume that you have heard of the now defunct Lowland Gaelic or Galwegian Gaelic which died out sometime between the 1700's and 1800's? The Gaelic spoken now should always be termed Highland Gaelic.
Sometimes the claim is made that the Lowlands have a linguistic heritage more like that of Northern England, where P-Celtic dialects were replaced by Old English in Anglosaxon times.
For most of Lowland Scotland this claim is simply inaccurate. Pictish was replaced throughout its territory by Gaelic, 'English' (however it's defined) only established itself in former Pictish lands hundreds of years after the Anglosaxon period, by which time the region had long been solidly Gaelic speaking.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky (a) It is has never been proved that Pictish was a P-Celtic language. Most current trought says it was a non-Indo-European language like Basque.
(b) Your statements are simply that - statements. You're offering no proof beyond "I say it so it is true" even when you are self-evidently saying things that are factually incorrect.
(c) You're still motivated by hatred of non-Scots and of Scots who speak English.
You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a disgrace to Scotland.
@kos "most current thought" exactly it has never been proven that Gaelic WASN'T p-celtic as for proof British army reports from 1707 onward describe the lowlands as bilingual primarily Gaelic speaking, with Scots secondary. As for the claim that i'm motivated by hatred of non-scots and scots who speak English it is simply nonsense I have nothing against non Scots or English language, I do however wish to see Gaelic AND Scots taught in schools akin to the Republic Of Ireland does with Irish.
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky You are slightly overstating the case for Gaelic in the Lowlands I think, it certainly existed into the 17th and indeed, even 18th century, but it was pretty well confined to Galloway, and by the Union Scots had been the courtly tongue for a while. There is Scots (or Inglis) literature dating back to 1375, and even that early it is starting to look distinctly archaic with significant retention of Germanic elements that were receding from contemporary Chaucerian English.
You are probably asking the wrong people. How can you say there is no apeteite for Independence when their is a nationalist government which will probably win even more seats in the next election?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I'm not saying that the appetite for independence is not there, I've met a few fervent nationalists, but simply because a person votes for the SNP doesn't mean there voting for independence, I've met plenty of conservatives that vote SNP simply because they hate labor.
that is utter rot...you vote for what you believe in...not because you dont like another party...I hate the tories but won't vote green just for the sake of it... believe in your convictions
Most recent Gers (Government Expenditure & Revenue Scotland) report which showed that in 2007/08 Scotland's current budget surplus was £219m, compared to a UK deficit of £5.3bn - and that Scotland had been in budget surplus now for three successive years, to the tune of £2.3bn. (BBC Friday, 17 July 2009
I aiso see that jeannietomlin is sean connery in drag. As both comment each as a fair scot but would rather be free of all muddles as such by belieing in anothers couth.
You're right! And the point of Parcel of Rogues is that we shouldn't sell our souls for English gold. I think we'll do just fine independent, but if it's a struggle, so be it. We would still be FREE!
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
I know you've not been in Scotland for a while Jeannie, but I can assure you its pretty FREE now. Its been ages since anyone tried to put my head on a spike.
As Jeannie has said, we'll be free when our own government is free to talk with the Germans, Peruvians, Australians, as the Scots we are. We'll be free when we have a government that goes abroad and doesn't come back with reported "Anglo"-French agreements, or "Anglo"-Canadian contacts. We'll be free when we actually exist.
So small nations always go bankrupt. Oh, wait. No they don't.
But for some reason Scotland would. Well, not necessarily, but we should worry that MAYBE in ninety years Scotland MIGHT go bankrupt.
And I'm tired about hearing that Ireland is having money problems. Hellooooo. So is the US. Ever hear about Chrysler and half of their banks going bankrupt and their trying to spend their way out with money they don't have?
Small nations frequently do as well, sometimes better, than large ones.
thats true morris...was scottish betrayed by the scottish...and...come on...theres good stuff going both ways...scotland/england....what about all me mates with scottish parents...or those who were born in scotland and grew up in england??
Fine forget the past and let's plan for the future. And the future is a free Scotland.
You have mates with Scottish parents? Then they can pick which nation they want, England or Scotland. Same with ones who were born in Scotland. And since I doubt that the border would be closed, there's no reason they can't come and visit.
Scotland can live free and still survive the English tried to wipe us out and here we are a great country still and a proud nation that is loved and respected throughout the world
I'd like to agree with you but so many times I've been slagged as being English because I was born south of the border and have an english accent. It seems centuries of Scottish blood on my father's side (he was a Scot) is so thin it disappears when one child is born across the border.
Did you hear about the papers released from the 70's revealing Westminster plans to stop us getting our oil in case of Independence and the changes to territorial waters?
greenmorris37, was that sarcasm? What the hell does Brown care about Scotland? I don't see him shutting trident, in actual fact aren't they upgrading it under his leadership? Great, having nukes in scotland is basically putting a bullseye on us.
That was really Beautiful I love the Corries and Rabbie Burns this has as much meaning to-day as then
Eellenne 1 week ago
a song for all the Scottish M.P'sand M.S.P.'s
TheTomhamilton8 2 weeks ago
this song is so relevant to todays debate about independance and i think its time to evict them
Phantom6051 3 weeks ago
fags
2666ification 1 month ago
@2666ification awa an boil yer heid
dubhlochan 4 weeks ago
A beautiful song, written by our most famous Bard. But to those listening, whether for or against Independence, remember that was a poem written in 1791. Very much a different time.
Whichever side of the argument you fall upon, don't give into hate and intolerence. Be patriotic, but not nationislistic. A patriot is someone who loves their country. A nationalist is someone who hates all other countries.
Make sure you decide on what is best for your countrymen, whatever that might be.
Sccorpy 1 month ago
@Sccorpy i just want a job and money in my pocket. Surely not much to ask for? All the cash is in London.
NickerSkids 1 month ago
@NickerSkids
No, thats not much to ask for at all. However, I fail to see how us being independent would help you out of that. Remember the lack of jobs and money is because of the Global Recession. Britain has been better off than most due to the strength of the pound.
You're definitely not alone in feeling that you just want a job in order to provide for yourself and your family, but no matter who is wholly in charge, you, myself and many others would still be facing the same problem.
Sccorpy 1 month ago
@Sccorpy " A nationalist is someone who hates all other countries" That is simply a sweeping statement which holds no water. Certainly as far as Scotland is concerned. The Nats' attitude is that anyone legally living in Scotland is welcome regardless of ethnicity, religion, colour etc. Plus of course they are more pro-european than the UK govt is. so it could be argued they are less insular!
gaconnochie 1 week ago
@gaconnochie
It was something I heard long ago, it's not really to do with political party names but more in actions. You could be part of the Nationalist party but not be a Nationalist person. Would you say a Christian who performs evil deeds is a proper Christian? Thats what I mean.
I'm just saying do whats best for your country but don't let hate or prejudice of others influence your vote.
Sccorpy 1 week ago
@Sccorpy "I'm just saying do whats best for your country but don't let hate or prejudice of others influence your vote." With that I totally agree with you.
gaconnochie 1 week ago
@Sccorpy That's really not true,its a very misleading statement, a Nationalist does not hate all other countries. I'm a Nationalist I don't hate anyone. Why do you think that? Everyone should be Patriotic about their Country Scots are very Patriotic and a proud people. As a Nation we are tolerant of others and welcoming to visitors from all over the world. Just visit Edinburgh in August you'll see for yourself and will be welcome.
Eellenne 1 week ago
@Eellenne
Again, it's a phrase. A person who supports SNP is not a Nationalist person as long as they're voting with good hearts and wanting the best for their fellow countrymen. Also, I'm Scottish myself. Born and bred. Lived here all my life. I know what a wonderful place this is and what wonderful people come from here but like everywhere you get idiots and arseholes who vote with prejudices just because 'We're the best, eff everyone else.'
Sccorpy 1 week ago
@Eellenne
To support the Nats, is just a a political choice, it doesn't mean your a Nationalistic person. The political party is just that, a party name. I still stand by the quote, be patriotic, not nationalistic. Do whats best, not because of hatred for others. Thats what I mean. I'm sorry if I've been confusing everyone with that, but please reread what I'm saying and really read it.
Sccorpy 1 week ago
Who gives a monkey's fart about the language - where it came from - where it's going. It's the country (Scotland) I care about and whenever it happens I will be voting for full separation from our neighbours south of the border. As an English genius once said, "We won't get fooled again".
keekabo 1 month ago
@keekabo southern scotland spoke strathclyde welsh as well lol....so yes look to future
3tangle3 1 month ago
Is that like "Ulster Scots" is that a language? if it is then so is West Indian Patois, or Cockney Rhyming slang aint a language at all its just a dialect as for P Celtic or otherwise have you been to Halstatt or La Tenne I have just so you know, keep clinging to your hun myth
Grifflaw 2 months ago
@Grifflaw scots is in its proper form almost a different language as many english not understand it in its full form.............its the closest english "dialect" to original old english my literature degree friend tells me
3tangle3 1 month ago
@Grifflaw are you from the moon or mars
Phantom6051 1 month ago
Why the sudden interest from the pro English? where were you lot 20 years ago? Its over your finished you bastards
Grifflaw 2 months ago
At the end of the day who really knows one way or the other? There were obviously different tribes and races that melded into what we now know as Scotland - let us just be glad for the rich legacy we have been left wether it be by Pict, Gael, Saxon, Dane or whomever if you see my meaning
Grifflaw 2 months ago
i guess someones been reading Wikipedia for their insight on the Pictish language
gapamu66 2 months ago
I and many other SNP supporters see what the Republic of Ireland has achieved it's revival of Irish langyuage and culture,and want Scotland to emulate it's successes. (excluding the current market crash of course, although the UK is in a similar if not worse state). As to the reason I used "Alba" and not "Scotland" it was because of the character limit that Youtube utilises in it's posts.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
The mood in Scotland is changing, it's almost palpable ...
weejimmykranky 5 months ago
If the SNP want independence, genuinely, they can get it. Honestly, Scottish independence is more possible now than it ever was - the margin between the yes and no votes is tiny, but a tiny majority is all we need. The next few years is all Salmond needs. The opposition is divided, people are relatively open minded. I'm waiting to see what'll happen though - this situation might suit them, god knows. I hope they're committed.
MarvellousMuffin 5 months ago
evenly and thinly over the country then it isn't counted as far as seats go. That is why we had a referendum within the last year to see if people wanted to change it. The Lib Dems within the UK as a whole are handicapped with the current system. Labour within Scotland have normally benefited from it as their support tended to be concentrated in the industrial Lowlands giving them lots of seats - far more than their share of the vote.
gaconnochie 6 months ago
point that the languages were oppressed. I just believe that you are blaming the wrong people.
gaconnochie 6 months ago
Dunfermline Cathedral 'spiritual heart of Scotland' still chimes out Blakes Jerusalem - and was engerland builded here
outshore 8 months ago
Our own Chiefs took the money, remember.
wellhill99 8 months ago
@wellhill99 not all of them
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 8 months ago
Today saw the SNP getting a majority in the Scottish Parliament! Step 2 to getting what we need! INDEPENDENCE
stevenrhcp 10 months ago 2
5th May, 2011 -- Do the right thing! :O)
InElginRobert 10 months ago
well if they are really wankers then of course they must be your fellow country men.....i didn't know wankers had their own country?Now that is funny !
kendosendo 1 year ago
funny how some "scots" dont even know their own countrys history,ignorance is something you have to make allowances for i suppose...oh well back to the tartan,shortbread and Fran and Anna records i suppose...............
kendosendo 1 year ago
@kendosendo Wtf son? Most people in scotland were ethnic gaels, brythonic or pictish by 1066. Picts and welshmen de-existed themselves by the middle ages, and then there was gaels, and now the time of anglo scottish lowlanders and their colonial chums.
Pawnbroker00 1 year ago
@Pawnbroker00 most weren't gaels is my point and the others didnt didnt disappear...they changed culture...genetically we are all almost unchaged from pre history.i.e anglo saxons are mostly brits who adopted culture from the few saxons who arrived, as picts/brits adpoted gaelic culture in north scotland from minority gaels(borders were different)...i.e were not all that different from the english,welsh,irish etc...time we stopped moaning about past(flodden etc was when WE invaded England!!!)
kendosendo 1 year ago
@kendosendo Just to wade in here, look at Scotland at night from space. Western highlands can grow Kale and Blacks. Cattle. The area can support a significant population, and did.
Yet the entire area is black.
That's because those Anglo-Scots marched through and killed everyone. The clearances drove out those who managed to hide.
That's why there are 10 million Gaels in Britain and Ireland, and 70 million in the US.
Because your union pals killed or transported all of our ancestors.
QuietReckoning 11 months ago
@QuietReckoning many clearances were started by the very clan chiefs who claimed lordship over the clans...and thats to do with economics and not race...not many anglo saxon clan chiefs me thinks in scotland.my point is we are all connected,why does everyone want to find a reason to divide,all Brits have a base genetic link that can bring us together,its the politics that separate gael from saxon,scot from english,brit from french....get it....were all very much related and have a lot in common
kendosendo 11 months ago
@kendosendo Yeah, but the economic attacks only came after the military marched through and slaughtered everyone. Economic realities forced most of the young men to join the military, and then the clan chiefs struck when the communities were defenseless, and essentially made up of women and the elderly. Most of those clan chiefs were complicit in either supporting the government in 45 or playing both sides. We're Related? Would you let an abused child stay with the parent who's been raping them?
QuietReckoning 11 months ago
@QuietReckoning i think if thats how you see Scotland then best leave it there......sad!
kendosendo 11 months ago
@kendosendo You misunderstand!
That's not how I see Scotland or England. That's how I see the Union. The English are not my enemy, nor are the Scots who descend from the ones that tried to kill my ancestors.
The only thing that remains from that time is the sad relic of imperialism that is the Union of 1707.
It is not people whom I fight against.
It is a corrupt, illegal, and vile institution.
QuietReckoning 11 months ago
@QuietReckoning good.but if you prefer clan system, it was based on violence..most "out" at the 45 were there under pain of reprisal.. they tried to force their view on the majority first by guess what, killing.if its the system then decide whose and forget the nationalist rot (the same system killed more English than Scots for power before we think of others) then lets agree its politics/economics not race,"they" and "us" isn't English or Scot, Black or White etc.it isn't even about the union!
kendosendo 11 months ago
@kendosendo What line in what I wrote to you said a single word about the bloody clan system?!
I want an independent, democratic Scottish republic with full representation in the EU.
I don't care about the glories of our past. It's just another lie they use to keep us in line.
I care about Scotland's future. Without independence, that future is culturally and economically destitute.
QuietReckoning 10 months ago
@QuietReckoning I want an independent Scotland if we can afford! And out of the EU, and free to run our own affairs without being told by the EU what we can and cannot do, and most importantly! to retain our pound sterling.
MrPenfold84 8 months ago 2
@MrPenfold84 Exactly I could not have said it better, the present snp policies are disgraceful.
How can any country have "independence in Europe"
TheCrannTara 8 months ago
@TheCrannTara As opposed to the current UK dictatorship, David Cameron and the Conservatives have only 1 MP out of 59 approx 2.1% of all votes cast in Alba, Nick Clegg has 11 MP's out of 59 approx 6% of all votes cast, therefore the Westminster coalition has at best approx 8% of all votes cast in Alba. Yet they are able to rule over Alba because of English votes, hardly democratic or fair.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 8 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky "the Westminster coalition has at best approx 8% of all votes cast in Alba." Your right in that Scotland votes differently - but your stats are way out. The Tories actually received 16.7% of the Scottish vote and the Lib Dems received 18.9% making it a combined 37.6%. Not actually that far behind Labour's 42% share of the total.
gaconnochie 6 months ago
@gaconnochie how does ONE MP for the Tories equal 16% of the vote, while 11 MP's for the Lib Dems is only slightly higher at 18.9% why the discrepancy in percentage? My initial point stands Scotland should not be subjected to the policies of a party or parties that it clearly did not vote for, it is highly undemocratic.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 6 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky "how does ONE MP for the Tories equal 16% of the vote, while 11 MP's for the Lib Dems is only slightly higher at 18.9% why the discrepancy in percentage? " Because percentage of the vote means how many people out of every 100 voted for the Tories. 16% of people did that - the figures are freely available on the net. The discepency in number of seats gained is because the UK system is first past the post and designed more for two parties just. \if your vote is spread more
gaconnochie 6 months ago
@kendosendo the majority Scots are descended from the Celts and the English are descended from the Vikings.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 8 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky hahahaha thicko
PHILLYBURNS 7 months ago
@PHILLYBURNS care to elaborate?
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 6 months ago
considered opinion?...by the sounds of it your not the type to have considered anything much! I await your next witty repost!
kendosendo 1 year ago
"But English gold has been our bane".
And continues to be...
Janco6 1 year ago 2
@Janco6 It's not English gold anymore, it's Scottish oil.
The gold is flowing south.
Everyone seems to still think that Sotland is still a poor nation.
"Keep your poverty!" Say Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron and Clegg, "But share your wealth."
QuietReckoning 11 months ago 2
alba abu
armaghlore 1 year ago
burns got it right then
trying to ensure it won't happen again
armaghlore 1 year ago
scottish unionist take note scotland will be first to break from the union
whatever the 'union' means these days
armaghlore 1 year ago
@armaghlore UK is just a company PLC it has no definitive cultural identity
3tangle3 1 year ago
@champs98320 I would also add that Wend Alexander is in charge of the Calman Commision a Labour MP who is an ardent pro-unionist and actually had to resign as Labour leader in Alba to financial corruption.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
comment on @andrewmcdow. Dude, your not oppressed by anyone anymore and Scots have never been oppressed by the English people. We are all humans subject to the whims of our leaders, some of whom are really hated down here. I'd love to see a referendum and let Scotland choose. All the best brother.
animationtristan 1 year ago
Comment removed
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
@animationtristan not oppressed, well what do you call David Cameron as Prime Minister being able to foist Tory policies on Alba despite the fact that the Tories only have ONE MP out of Fifty Nine in Alba. The Tories and Lib Dems together in Alba only have 13 MP's out of 59. NOT DEMOCRATIC AT ALL. I'm not trying to deride you as I too would like to see a referendum, but you are aware that all the Unionist parties point blank won't allow an independence referendum in Alba.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky
Yes it is terrible but as I say this is the act of leaders that never have peoples vested interests at heart (even in Scotland). The unionists will not give this up either and historically they've no real need, Freedom is never given. It must be taken!!! The people must take it. If there is enough people then this will change. If you all want it start taking it and if you all want it you certainly have my blessings. Good Luck man!
animationtristan 1 year ago
Hey, me again. I'm concerned with Irish independence as well as Scottish. I'm concerned with any victim of English opression. My IRA comment was sort of a joke. The Sinn Fein may never accomplish anything because of its association with the militant provisionals.
andrewmcdow 1 year ago
@andrewmcdow Some funny joke. Isn't terrorism such a laughing matter? Unfortunately it's ignorant onlookers who seek to destabilise the peace process which all parties involved worked so hard to achieve. Also, it's a slight to me to suggest that I am opressed by the English, you have a very strange idea of oppression. Should the majority of Scots want independence, the seccesionist parties would have a majority in the Scots Parliament and could table a referendum. Democracy.
champs98320 1 year ago
@champs98320 I sense resentment. I'm sorry if I've offended you, and you're right: I'm just an onlooker. I don't have any keen insight into the situation. Thank God I don't have a vote in it! But when I hear that song, I hear the blood of a people crying from the earth. I'm sorry if that moves me.
andrewmcdow 1 year ago
@andrewmcdow The song is ofcourse about the 'Treaty of Union' 1707 between the Kingdoms of England and Scotland. It wasn't a particular democratic union on either sides: there was no referendum of the peoples. With that said often good can come of bad things, our union isn't quite perfect but I believe that much good comes of it. Some may disagree. We certainly have the democratic framework to dismantle it should we wish. Scotland poetry highly romantisizes history, not entiry pragmatic.
champs98320 1 year ago
@champs98320 No we don't have the democratic framework to dismantlethe UK as the SNP proposed an independence referendum and all the Unionist parties automatically and unequivocally blocked it and will never allow it to pass or proceed. Insteadm they were able to foist on Alba the shambles that is the Calman commision. Might I also add that Calman is rigged as the civil servant who drafted the proposal is also in charge of advising all the parties and overseeing it's implementation.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
Remember Darien.
BillDFC 1 year ago
Alba and England had combined the crowns and had the same king in 1606 a but tensions arose when England wanted to appoint a Hanoverian Sophie to the throne while the Scots wanted a different king. England also relied heavily on Scottish soldiers to help her fight her wars,and was terrfied Scotland/Alba would align themselves with the French. Thusly Alba was tricked,bribed,bullied you name it into signing the Act Of The Union.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
I'm American and this song makes me want to join the IRA!
andrewmcdow 1 year ago
Comment removed
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
I'm American, and I'm about to join the ****ing IRA.
andrewmcdow 1 year ago
@andrewmcdow @andrewmcdow you do know that the IRA want to free Northern Ireland and not Scotland/Alba.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
SAOR ALBA! I hope that Alba throws off the English oppressors soon and gains independence. This songs is about the Scottish traitors who were bribed by the English to dissolve the Parliament of the Kingdom Of Scotland and get Alba to pass the Act Of The Union and not to the English as many seem to think.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 1 year ago
TRUER NOW THAN EVER
shunkahaska 1 year ago
this corries song i would like to dedicate to PAT WARD LAST SEEN IN isliston london form david garden thanks for the happy (working-years) in oxford 1970 to80
nothing much as changed in scotland pat it more corupt than ever
senitle 1 year ago
Judging by a lot of the comments here, people are misunderstanding this song: the nation in question is Scotland, not England, and the rogues are the Scottish establishment. Burns wasn't blaming the English in any way, but the Scots who sold out to them. Like so many of Burns' works this is more socialist than nationalist.
beakeral 1 year ago 2
@beakeral .. you see this is a perfect example of an english man, in denial, christ we were only there to help the Scots, we didnt mean to rape murder and destroy your culture forever, yes he was describing the Scots who sold out as a parcel of rogues but if he was writing a poem about the english he would have called ye a shower of english fucking bastards - satans spawn.... if there is a hell the its full of the english thats for sure.. bastards....
ravetunes 1 year ago
@ravetunes .. I'm a Scot actually ravetunes, though one well travelled enough to dislike racist remarks about anyone, English or otherwise. Also, check your bloody history: the culture that was stamped on was Highland, and a hell of a lot of the stamping was done by Lowland Scots. My point was that Burns would have probably had more fellow feeling for a working man from England than for a landed aristocrat from Inverness, and if you doubt that you haven't read his poems very carefully.
beakeral 1 year ago
@beakeral your no Scot you english bastard now fuck off over the border to your disgusting family of english scum... get some pride in yourself and wake up to what the english did to your country... ya fool...
ravetunes 1 year ago
@ravetunes .. Well, what a persuasive fellow you are, and how proud you make me feel to be Scots. What did the English do to my country? Did they render the natives semi-literate and intolerant, or are those homegorwn maladies?
beakeral 1 year ago
@ nicolbobyour right but unfortunately we are told what the establishment want us to believe I mean a scottish assembly , no a parcel of rogues ruled by westminster still and subject to english authority and like so many before them only interested in their own pockets scots english and welsh and irish alike sold out by those that govern them for personal gain and glory and to appease the world order and other religous doctrines other than christianity so true still as it was back then
shunkahaska 1 year ago
Here's tae the Wallace and the Bruce and to all the people who fought for this nation and died.
This was once one of the proudest nations in the world, now we are but an English county as far as the world knows.
This song makes me cry for what once was....but, perhaps, if we start thinking as a nation again we can once again be proud.
If we are allowed a referendum, please vote yes to independence.
nicolbob1 1 year ago 2
Im English and respect my Scottish neighbours, let Scotland run its own affairs and let us run ours. That way everyone is happy. Seems simple to me. Peace to all.
Thorwulf18 1 year ago 6
"We were bought, and sold, for english gold.
sic a parcel o' rogues in a nation."
-the Ploughman Poet
The Fat Cats still rule supreme.
habanaman 1 year ago 3
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habanaman 1 year ago
I think alot of damage has been done by the english to the Scottish and it will be hard to repair, alot of Scottish seem to have a hatred of themselves. Loyalists are traitors and bring shame on the real Scottish it's such a pity that a great nation was brought to it's knees and forced into a union with the english scum and it's an even greater shame that loyalist scots took up arms against their neighbours in Ireland. Alba gu brath
32eire32jim 1 year ago 5
@32eire32jim
Which 'English' are you talking about? There are many good English people. However, if you mean successive English governments - which have also screwed their own people - I couldn't agree more.
Slievedubh 1 year ago 3
@Slievedubh I'm talking about the english establishment, the monarchy and the bankers, fuck them all
32eire32jim 1 year ago 2
@Slievedubh i agree but must say that we are also guilty of screwing our own people oursels
TheRockinjock 1 year ago
This song should be dedicated to our present Gov't. No bigger "Parcel O' Rogues" ever drew breath!
planetyouranus22 1 year ago 2
The Wallace Motto springs to mind:
Pro Libertate!
For liberty, Alba gu brath!
CharlieStanebayers 1 year ago
This song applies more today to the Scottish Labore Party than anything else, who have happily lied and cheated Scots for decades, serving their London masters to the end. The plan, simple, keep Scots demoralised and dependent, lie through the media propaganda machine and keep masses dependent on state handouts to such a degree that through fear they will vote for more of the same stagnation instead of daring to bite the hand that (apparently) feeds them! Colonialism in the twenty-first century!
alacas69 2 years ago 11
Comment removed
alacas69 2 years ago
great song a good reminder of the cruel ways of history... it should be noted the Scottish have never been known to lie down and give up, thats for sure!
joeygsmom 2 years ago 6
I love it. A song like no other. Beautiful. Alba gu Bràth. Cha bhi e fada. Fuirichibh.
hafpipe 2 years ago 26
I was going to write something about this song, but hafpipe's comment says it all.
Saor Alba!
BoabBarca 2 years ago 3
couldn't agree more. hafpipe does say it all
cooler52er 2 years ago
Alba Gu Brath!!
Tillyvalle 2 years ago 9
I can name a few rogues today that fit right into this song, but unlike the Scots in 1707 who almost to a man and woman oppossed the Union but had no say, we'll have our say. The foreign controlled press, radio and tv stations, ESPECIALLY the BBC will do their bit to opposse it, but independence, it's coming.
Scotland Forever
PtbaScot 2 years ago 14
The new way forward...localisation in a globalised world will come and Scotland shall be independent again...not only that but more independence to communities within Scotland as Scotland is a varied country itself :D
3tangle3 2 years ago 4
Stand free Scotland!
chiburui6 2 years ago 12
This comment has received too many negative votes show
good riddance to it.....
DegenerateSmoker 2 years ago
As an American that has lived in Scotland for the last 3 months, doing research for a graduate paper on Scottish Nationalism, I would love to see Scotland become independent from the UK. However I just don't feel the will is there, most people I've talked to seem apathetic, and could give or take independence, and everyone else seems to think economically Scotland could not stand on its own, I disagree with the economic bullocks, business is open and I've been supporting it. Saor Alba!
evanhg 2 years ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'd like to see Texas break away from the Union.
pvuf431 2 years ago
There is a clause in the Texas, (PBUH) which states that should the people of Texas wish it, the whole state may seccede from the Union.
Legally!
Aye the Bonnie Blue flag and all that!
chiburui6 2 years ago
Good to read. Welcome to Scotland, and welcome to the cause. All the best.
scotchprofessor 2 years ago 6
To be honest, I couldn't care less if independence left me with a couple of coins less in my pockets. Alba Gu Brath.
evo1dee4life 2 years ago 87
@evo1dee4life the joke is scotland will be richer without having nukes and having control over resources
3tangle3 1 year ago
@evo1dee4life lets remember that most "SCOTS" are not and never were gaels....most have more in common with the English than we admit...we are all brits,despite our diffrences
kendosendo 1 year ago
@evo1dee4life well is it english or gaelic....most "Scots" are English speaking people and not Gaels.....as was Burns
kendosendo 11 months ago
@kendosendo English is the dominant language because it was forced on the population of Scotland, The English made a concerted effort to rid Scotland of Scots and Gaelic. I would hope an independent Scotland would foster the Gaelic and Scots languages. Alba gu bràth is Gaelic for Scotland forever.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 8 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky We should be grown up enough to look at ourselves and not blame the English for everything. It was on the whole the anglified elite in Scotland who organised the oppression of the indiginous Scottish languages. Not the English. After the Education Acts of the 1880s Gaelic campaigners tried to go over the heads of the then so called Scotch Education Dept to the UK govt itself - but Westminster declined to interfere in what it viewed as internal Scottish matters.
gaconnochie 6 months ago
@gaconnochie Westminster did restrict the teaching of Scots and Gaelic even after the education acts of the 1800's, take for example I want a driving licence or passport becauuse they are administered by the UK government it is impossible for me to get one exclusively in Sots or Gaelic.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 6 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky Aye but Westminster does not mean 'the English'. Scotland pre-devolution was still as far as things like language issues and education goes (ie not macro-economics) run by the Scottish Office! They may have been members of the UK govt but they were Scottish members of the UK govt. If you had a Scottish Office pushing for promotion of Gaelic and Scots with an English controlled govt holding things down then you'd have more of a point. In fact I am sympathetic to your main
gaconnochie 6 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky As a Scot who has voted SNP in the past and could be convinced to do so in the future, I have to say it's people like you who make me think voting SNP is a bad idea. You're wrapped up in pointless feuds that are centuries old and can't see past this bigoted loathing for all things English.
Can't you make the argument for independence without devolving into anti-English bigotry and a whining victimhood for things that happened centuries before you were born?
kos 4 months ago
@kos II can't even now get a driving licence or passport in Gaelic, when I was at college they taught English, French,German, Russian, Mandarin but NOT Gaelic. The best arguments for independence is that Alba would actually get the government she votes for unlike now here we have the Tories and Lib Dems even though Alba soundl rejected them. Also we would control all our resources for the benefit of Scotland and not fritter them to London. You should check the McCrone Report.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@kos Also in the 1950's (in my lifetime although I was very very young) the Queen was coronated yet the Scottish coronation she needed to undertake in Alba at the time was performed behind closed doors because the government at the time stated that "We don't want to acknowledge the fact Alba is a separate kingdom with their own traditions".
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky I'm not sure why you think that reply is relevant to anything I said. I'm also unsure, as one of the 99% of Scots who are Anglophonic, why you use the Gaelic "Alba" in place of the English and Scots "Scotland".
All I can say is that your non sequitur reply reinforces my view that you are a bigot motivated by spite and victimhood and that you have no positive vision for the future of Scotland. I hope there aren't many people like you in the SNP.
kos 4 months ago
@kos You stated in a previous post that many SNP supporters are wrapped up in pointless centuries old feuds and challenged me to make a case for independence without resorting to English bigotry, my point is that most SNP supporters want Scotland to be an independent nation again not based on centuries old feuds like culloden etc but in order that Scotland finally gets a government she votes for and can finally control all her own resources like any other country.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky "English is the dominant language because it was forced on the population of Scotland".
You seem blissfully unaware that throughout history the majority of Lowland Scots haven spoken Scots, a dialect of Old Anglalish that is directly related to English. The Lowland Scots are primarily a mix of Brythonic Celts (i.e. predating the Scots migrations from Irelands) and Anglo-Saxons.
How can you spout all this nonsense when you don't even know your own country's history?
kos 4 months ago
@kos I in fact know a great deal about Scotlands hostory and it is an enduring myth that the Highlanders were the only one's who spoke Gaelic in Scotland. Gaelic was spoken from the Highlands of Scotland right down to Fife at one point being only replaced with Scots in the 17th century.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky I don't know what "hostory" is, so your knowledge of it is irrelevant to me. As for your other claim, I'd like to see a source because every work on Scots linguistic history that I've ever read (as well as all existing toponymical data) says that Gaelic was centred on the West Coast and Highlands and that Scots was spoken in the rest of the country.
I also have to ask why, since you claim to be a Scot, you seem to hate the Scots language.
kos 4 months ago
@kos "Hostory" was a mistake that I failed to notice and should have read History. As for Gaelic being spoke in the lowlands I presume that you have heard of the now defunct Lowland Gaelic or Galwegian Gaelic which died out sometime between the 1700's and 1800's? The Gaelic spoken now should always be termed Highland Gaelic.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
Sometimes the claim is made that the Lowlands have a linguistic heritage more like that of Northern England, where P-Celtic dialects were replaced by Old English in Anglosaxon times.
For most of Lowland Scotland this claim is simply inaccurate. Pictish was replaced throughout its territory by Gaelic, 'English' (however it's defined) only established itself in former Pictish lands hundreds of years after the Anglosaxon period, by which time the region had long been solidly Gaelic speaking.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky (a) It is has never been proved that Pictish was a P-Celtic language. Most current trought says it was a non-Indo-European language like Basque.
(b) Your statements are simply that - statements. You're offering no proof beyond "I say it so it is true" even when you are self-evidently saying things that are factually incorrect.
(c) You're still motivated by hatred of non-Scots and of Scots who speak English.
You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a disgrace to Scotland.
kos 4 months ago
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DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@kos "most current thought" exactly it has never been proven that Gaelic WASN'T p-celtic as for proof British army reports from 1707 onward describe the lowlands as bilingual primarily Gaelic speaking, with Scots secondary. As for the claim that i'm motivated by hatred of non-scots and scots who speak English it is simply nonsense I have nothing against non Scots or English language, I do however wish to see Gaelic AND Scots taught in schools akin to the Republic Of Ireland does with Irish.
DrunkOnScotsWhisky 4 months ago
@DrunkOnScotsWhisky You are slightly overstating the case for Gaelic in the Lowlands I think, it certainly existed into the 17th and indeed, even 18th century, but it was pretty well confined to Galloway, and by the Union Scots had been the courtly tongue for a while. There is Scots (or Inglis) literature dating back to 1375, and even that early it is starting to look distinctly archaic with significant retention of Germanic elements that were receding from contemporary Chaucerian English.
Injektilo7 4 months ago
You are probably asking the wrong people. How can you say there is no apeteite for Independence when their is a nationalist government which will probably win even more seats in the next election?
BonnieBlueFlag1314 2 years ago 6
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I'm not saying that the appetite for independence is not there, I've met a few fervent nationalists, but simply because a person votes for the SNP doesn't mean there voting for independence, I've met plenty of conservatives that vote SNP simply because they hate labor.
evanhg 2 years ago
that is utter rot...you vote for what you believe in...not because you dont like another party...I hate the tories but won't vote green just for the sake of it... believe in your convictions
eekybee66 2 years ago
Most recent Gers (Government Expenditure & Revenue Scotland) report which showed that in 2007/08 Scotland's current budget surplus was £219m, compared to a UK deficit of £5.3bn - and that Scotland had been in budget surplus now for three successive years, to the tune of £2.3bn. (BBC Friday, 17 July 2009
alacas69 2 years ago 8
Free? Are we? Do we control our OWN finances? Get the profits from our OWN oil? Control our OWN foreign policy.
It hasn't been so long since I've been in Scotland that I don't know the answer to every one of those questions.
NO.
And that is NOT what I count as freedom.
JeannieTomlin 2 years ago 5
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no u get the British profits and free university while i have to get in thousands of pounds worth of debt
ozzy737 2 years ago
Ha. British profits! That's hilarious. We get the British debt! How many billions of debt now?
Profits. That's a good one! Haha!
British Debt that sucks up the profits from OUR oil and sucks the people dry. Pays for wars we never wanted.
JeannieTomlin 2 years ago
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Good job we didn't bail out RBS then... oh wait...
pvuf431 2 years ago
AH! Burns at his best.
I aiso see that jeannietomlin is sean connery in drag. As both comment each as a fair scot but would rather be free of all muddles as such by belieing in anothers couth.
mrbonedigger 2 years ago
You're right! And the point of Parcel of Rogues is that we shouldn't sell our souls for English gold. I think we'll do just fine independent, but if it's a struggle, so be it. We would still be FREE!
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
Saor Alba
JeannieTomlin 2 years ago
I know you've not been in Scotland for a while Jeannie, but I can assure you its pretty FREE now. Its been ages since anyone tried to put my head on a spike.
u02igm 2 years ago
As Jeannie has said, we'll be free when our own government is free to talk with the Germans, Peruvians, Australians, as the Scots we are. We'll be free when we have a government that goes abroad and doesn't come back with reported "Anglo"-French agreements, or "Anglo"-Canadian contacts. We'll be free when we actually exist.
scotchprofessor 2 years ago 8
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You're about as scottish as a Scotch egg
pvuf431 2 years ago
So small nations always go bankrupt. Oh, wait. No they don't.
But for some reason Scotland would. Well, not necessarily, but we should worry that MAYBE in ninety years Scotland MIGHT go bankrupt.
And I'm tired about hearing that Ireland is having money problems. Hellooooo. So is the US. Ever hear about Chrysler and half of their banks going bankrupt and their trying to spend their way out with money they don't have?
Small nations frequently do as well, sometimes better, than large ones.
JeannieTomlin 2 years ago 4
Andorra seems to be doing OK. Small nations can flourish if the big nations let them!
moominpic 2 years ago 4
ireland survived without oil. Scotland can too
thatsdyn 2 years ago 3
ireland???.....hullaw
TARTANCAM 2 years ago
thats true morris...was scottish betrayed by the scottish...and...come on...theres good stuff going both ways...scotland/england....what about all me mates with scottish parents...or those who were born in scotland and grew up in england??
forget the past..
HughGarrette 2 years ago
Fine forget the past and let's plan for the future. And the future is a free Scotland.
You have mates with Scottish parents? Then they can pick which nation they want, England or Scotland. Same with ones who were born in Scotland. And since I doubt that the border would be closed, there's no reason they can't come and visit.
This is no problem.
JeannieTomlin 2 years ago 2
Scotland can live free and still survive the English tried to wipe us out and here we are a great country still and a proud nation that is loved and respected throughout the world
JStivala1 2 years ago 3
I'd like to agree with you but so many times I've been slagged as being English because I was born south of the border and have an english accent. It seems centuries of Scottish blood on my father's side (he was a Scot) is so thin it disappears when one child is born across the border.
moominpic 2 years ago
robbie burns wrote this
jimmybhoy4 3 years ago 2
Robbie Burns collected fragments of it and finished it. A mark of his Scottish Radical Nationalism.
Cradh 3 years ago
robbie???????????
TARTANCAM 2 years ago
Teach our children about how we were betrayed by the English parliament and King William over Darien.Remember Darien!
BillDFC 3 years ago 5
Quite true, but this song is about how the Scottish were betrayed by the Scottish.
greenmorris37 3 years ago 3
Did you hear about the papers released from the 70's revealing Westminster plans to stop us getting our oil in case of Independence and the changes to territorial waters?
BillDFC 3 years ago 4
Nope! But it wouldn't surprise me. Don't worry though, we've got a Scottish PM looking after things now.
greenmorris37 3 years ago
greenmorris37, was that sarcasm? What the hell does Brown care about Scotland? I don't see him shutting trident, in actual fact aren't they upgrading it under his leadership? Great, having nukes in scotland is basically putting a bullseye on us.
Thank god we have a Scotsman as PM.
Gordon Brown is another rogue.
TopherT1979 3 years ago 6
Yes! Nothing and that wouldn't surprise me either, to answer your questions categorically.
greenmorris37 3 years ago
Thank god for that!
I thought you were eluding to Brown being William Wallace in disguise. ;)
TopherT1979 3 years ago 2
You are right there,Brown has no interest in Scotland at all.
But we've got Alex!
BillDFC 2 years ago 2
alex???u mean biffo the bear lol..think il take my chances wi,,minni the minx..lol
TARTANCAM 2 years ago