Capitalism Making Life Better?

[TheJooberjones]

what i would pay to see chomsky debating obama and romney.. ahhh god it would be amazing

[CrocodilusPontifex]

Chomsky's argument is nihilistic; it could be used against ANY economic system (capitalist, socialist, "libertarian-socialist," etc) If better living conditions doesn't justify an economic system, WHAT DOES?

Anti-capitalists need to put up or shut up; make an alternative economy in the US. Show us that your way can provide all the amenities and comforts of modern life WITHOUT CEO's or stock exchanges or pay-rolls and so on.

Put out or GTFO.

[LukasX62S]

@CrocodilusPontifex well said, stupid socialists with no ambition trying to fuck the intelligent people that work for their billions night and day.

[Hedning1390]

@CrocodilusPontifex I'm not an anarcho-syndicalist, but I can still get his point: His point being that you can't just look at one factor and draw conclusions from it alone. You have to look at other things as well. Better living conditions (for some and paid by others) might not be as good as it first seems.

[Pomme843]

@CrocodilusPontifex If better living conditions do justify any economic system, then every economic system ever invented could be said to be a valid, viable system, as you can produce evidence of increase in standard of living for most systems.

Obviously, externalities like slavery, corruption, marked failure, relative deprivation, etc, ought also to be taken into account when evaluating an economic system. Contrarywise, some try to justify everything with "job creation" etc.

[Preteranimus]

Listening to Chomsky is similar to taking way too much LSD.

[Preteranimus]

Listening to Chomsky is similar to a near death experience.

[Preteranimus]

Chomsky totally eliminates all the misinformation and misguided preconceptions people have of human social movements, society and all of history. Listen to one of his lectures and you feel like you have to reset your entire view on reality, redefining all the terminology you thought you knew.

[BogartWestern]

agree with noam on much, aside from his economics. he seems to have blindspots.

[MillionthUsername]

"But dumbshits like you will never get it"

How only the magic men with guns can put up cable and connect them to computers?

"spout vague ramblings of a 'fascist' medical system."

Stupid socialist twit can't read. Must have gone to government schools.

Yes, it's fascist, you moron. The state subsidizes the private "health care industry" by propping up their high prices through making competition illegal and forcing "dumbshits" like you to pay whatever price they say. They own you, jackass.

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername "How only the magic men with guns can put up cable and connect them to computers?"

...did you look up ARPANET and NSFNET? The internet you are now using was made possible thanks to these GOVERNMENT FUNDED PROGRAMS. The fact that you can afford your current internet connection totally invalidates your argument regarding the universal health care..but like I said you will never get it (because you are stupid). Now get off your 'socialist' internet connection

[MillionthUsername]

@WishCRUS4D3R You can't even answer the questions, you mind-numbed dumbed-down robot zombie state-worshiping drone.

Where does the gov't get money, dingbat?

Socialists don't have money to "make possible" anything until they STEAL it using VIOLENCE and THREATS OF VIOLENCE, you thoroughly ignorant twit. Who do they steal it from, nutbag? From other pennyless socialists? No, moron, they steal it from people who PRODUCE WEALTH.

Anyone can form a company to build a network, dimwit.

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername Then stop using all of the government funded infrastructure that you enjoy then..stop using your INTERNET CONNECTION that was created by the DARPA. Stop using any product or service that is subject to Government safety and quality control standards. Just stop using ANYTHING that's funded by tax payer money. If you don't then you're a dumbass hypocrite.

[MillionthUsername]

@WishCRUS4D3R "Just stop using ANYTHING that's funded by tax payer money. If you don't then you're a dumbass hypocrite."

That makes no sense. You're completely irrational. Did you skip a dose?

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername Nice refutation ugly -_-.

[MillionthUsername]

We don't have capitalism, so what are you talking about Chomsky?

[gulbirk]

I would like to add that people should think about where are capitalist society would be without the socialistic aspects of it. Healthcare, public schooling, roads, firemen, policemen, etc.

[1776bricks]

@gulbirk You don't need capitalism to help those in need. We don't have health care, we had roads before capitalism. Capitalism does not coincide with equality.

[MillionthUsername]

@gulbirk "Healthcare, public schooling, roads, firemen, policemen, etc."

The gov't ruined "healthcare." It's ridiculously expensive due to their fascist controls. Public schooling is a joke. It institutionalizes kids and dumbs them down, and still costs a fortune. Compulsory state education was a plank in the communist party platform. Rational people don't kidnap children and haul them off to indoctrination centers to be locked up for years and abused verbally, physically, spiritually.

[MillionthUsername]

@gulbirk Look on YT for police brutality videos. Follow some of the blogs that cover them, and you will not believe the abuses. We live in a police state. You can't go to the airport without having your fourth amendment rights violated. Even the Nazis didn't stick their hands down your pants, feel up nuns, old ladies, and even babies. Watch some TSA videos.

The state killed about 200 million people in the 20th century. It's a violent psychotic parasite. It rules by violence and threats.

[gulbirk]

@MillionthUsername LOL. Healthcare is ruined?

I suppose thats why Norway and Swedens health care system is a million times better then americas?

Before public schooling you had much higher numbers of people un able to read and wright. I would also like to add that if you google the UN education index, all the countries that score high have public schooling.

[MillionthUsername]

@gulbirk "LOL. Healthcare is ruined?"

What planet do you live on? Hospitals and doctors routinely bankrupt people. They have a protected "market" thanks to gov't intervention. It has happened to many people I know.

"un able to read and wright"

Like you?

"all the countries that score high have public schooling."

What happens to people who don't want their children kidnapped

and indoctrinated by the state, and don't want to be robbed to pay

for the kidnapping of other children?

[MillionthUsername]

@gulbirk "I suppose thats why Norway and Swedens health care system is a million times better then americas?"

One fascist scheme can be "better" than another fascist scheme, sure. It would be "better" to like under certain dictators compared to others.

Did you know that Sweden takes almost HALF OF EVERYTHING PRODUCED in their country? The state steals half of the wealth produced annually. I guess that means their programs are "free," right?

State worship is pathetic. Grow up.

[gulbirk]

@MillionthUsername You should grow up, and deal with the fact that both Norway and Sweden score higher then USA or almost any other country on any index collerated with peoples lifes. Its better countries.

""Hospitals and doctors routinely bankrupt people. They have a protected "market" thanks to gov't intervention""

Capitalism. We have public healthcare you frikin moron. Your healthcare system is ran for the sake of making money.

[MillionthUsername]

@gulbirk "Capitalism. We have public healthcare you frikin moron"

What "capitalism," jackass? Medicine is one of most heavily regulated industries. Corporations hire lobbyists to buy laws from sleazy politicians which protect the cartels from competition. It's fascism, not capitalism. There is no free market in health care.

"Your healthcare system is ran for the sake of making money."

Brainwashed nutbag. So is yours. Fascist as well. Totally rigged market based purely on force.

[MillionthUsername]

"We have public healthcare you frikin moron."

Which means you take people's money by force and give it to the "health care" fascists. You have laws which protect this racket and laws against people being free to make their own voluntary contracts regarding health care. Yet you think you are getting some magical service for free, but you are not allowed to say no, not allowed to compete, not allowed to choose. You can't even understand that this is so because you are thoroughly propagandized.

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername Nah it's when people in a CIVILIZED society agree to pool their resources together to help people that can't help themselves. It's called compassion, look the word up sometime you selfish prick.

[MillionthUsername]

@WishCRUS4D3R "agree to pool their resources together"

No one agrees, you ignorant twit. That's why they use guns and goons and jail cells. They have to FORCE it on you because nobody wants it, you moron. That's socialism. It's a gun to your back. It's not "compassion" to steal from people at gunpoint, to fix prices, to enrich some at the expense of others, to limit service and quality, to suffocate people with needless bureaucracy. Get a clue.

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername If you look at the polls you would know that the American people have been overwhelmingly in favor of a public option for decades. Did you ever look up the word compassion dumbshit? I know it probably seems like a foreign concept to heartless bastards like you.

[MillionthUsername]

@WishCRUS4D3R It is "compassion" to steal money from people and give it to corporations so that they can maintain high prices and continue to shut out competition and take advantage of sick people? It's is "heartless" for me to criticize the fascist takeover of an industry? I'm a "bastard" for describing how fascists force people to pay their high prices?

You're not even capable of understanding any of this, are you? All you know is that the state is your god. You submit to it blindly.

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername ...is that why Americans pay near twice as much for their healthcare than what other first world nations pay for the same standard of care? If you hate everything 'the state' does then get the fuck off the internet since it's creation was only made possible due to government funding. But you're not capable of understanding any of this are you? Dumbshits like you aren't able to understand anything other than stupid catchphrases and sound bites.

[MillionthUsername]

@WishCRUS4D3R I'm opposed to the American fascist medical system, you moron. Can't you even read? They are all the same except in the US they haven't removed the payments between the customer and the provider. Otherwise it's the same fascist system of control. You don't realize this? You think you are free?

"it's creation was only made possible due to government funding"

That's mindlessly absurd. Typical brainwashed socialist moron.

[WishCRUS4D3R]

@MillionthUsername Go look up ARPANET then dumbshit. If the creation of the internet were left to the private sector only millionaires and billionaires would be able to afford it today, but thanks to government funding even dumbshits like you can now afford such a service. That's why I mentioned it in the first place dumbass.

But dumbshits like you will never get it and just continue to spout vague ramblings of a 'fascist' medical system.

[RELATEDXXX]

Noam Chomsky takes the Christ like doctrine ; Capitalism takes the trickle down Dogma ; it works for the top few and poops on the 95 % that do all the work for shitty wages and shitty treatment all over the planet . Does not compute with out madness in the streets . Watch out for the fascists they buy up the cops & the Military with rationalization crap and the peoples treasury .

[tehatemachine]

@RELATEDXXX What is a better solution then?

[MillionthUsername]

I was waiting for "it doesn't exist" from Chomsky because he always says that communism doesn't exist and socialism doesn't exist.

[briefcaseofblues]

noam just whipped ass with words.

[TheGoodChap]

America's standard of living is sadly a joke that we all participate in believing... Our suburbs of the rich are far poorer than the cheapest of apartments in Paris. The difference is that in France, they're apartments are in a place that people care about. They have real value because of the nation they have made for themselves is made out of real value.

[pietricarlos]

Very ineteresting .

[boxermaf]

capitalism is the opposite of robin hood

[ssgurgs9]

That Soviet economic argument is a wash. It existed in an innovative free market world. If you look at all the technological innovations and mass consumer prosperity, nearly all of these came from the (more) free United States and Western Europe.

[MrJoeBlunt]

@ssgurgs9 your argument seems a wash as well since all the countries in the world live in that same "free market world." That can't be the reason that the USSR jumped in economic growth. Why not other third world countries? The USSR jumped in growth because they participated in MASSIVE exploitation. The USSR did in a decades, through gulags and state violence, what the US did in a few hundred years through slavery, oppression of Natives etc. That's the secret of capitalist growth: Fucking others

[ssgurgs9]

@MrJoeBlunt The Soviets applied the United States as a model for success (not saying the Soviets succeeded, there's a difference between a high GDP and prosperity, everyone in a country can be put to work making tanks and we would have a high GDP, but no prosperity) They applied the innovations of Frederick Taylor, Henry Ford, Carnegie, etc all discovered in the free market. Socialism can only succeed through tyranny, while the free market can if we have hard money (thanks to Keynes we don't)

[MrJoeBlunt]

@ssgurgs9 My contention is that the USSR was not socialist/communist. Not as defined by thinkers such as Karl Marx, Luxembourg, Lenin, Trotsky etc. The key feature in a socialist society is the public ownership of the means of production (MOP). No country is history has achieved this, nor can one country by itself achieve this. USSR was just state capitalist. The state owned the MOP not the people. In US the MOP is privately owned. So yeah, USSR used capitalists innovations Taylorite management.

[thereddog223]

Yes lets ruin the entire world

[markuskentwood]

@thereddog223 you're a moron

[thereddog223]

Great argument

[markuskentwood]

@thereddog223 cool story, dumbshit

[thereddog223]

If you can not make an intellectual argument do not bother commenting.

[markuskentwood]

@thereddog223 says the idiot who posted a moronic comment

[thereddog223]

People who insult others as an argument have a week mind 

[TSaxman74]

@thereddog223 Or perhaps a monthly mind.

[semasiologistics]

No, Chomsky. The question was a pragmatic question, not a moral question. The scared kid said, if capitalism didn't work, why would it still be around? Then you reduced his argument to morality by comparing it to slavery since slaves "lived" better later than earlier. Then you go on to talk about hegemony? Thanks for the propaganda, but the point was that capitalism has been around and thriving for more than five hundred years, not ten.

[putasensura]

@semasiologistics why was feudalism around for like 600 years?

[semasiologistics]

@putasensura, that is different, since obviously capitalism and communism and socialism and various political, economical and social systems didn't exist when Feudalism did. :) Regardless, Chomsky still reduced illogically the question to morality when that is not what was asked. Capitalism means competition. It has existed in Europe for hundreds of years and that is exactly where America comes from.

[putasensura]

@semasiologistics the capitalist system has failed to satisfy basic human needs for every one. chomsky just did an analogue between our existen system and the slave system wich is very accurate.

[semasiologistics]

@putasensura, if you want to adulate Chomsky, that's up to you. 

[putasensura]

@semasiologistics good argument. sir

[johnniefive80]

@semasiologistics why do you chose to be an idiot? but i feel bad for you so i will help you. he said it has been challenged throughout history and it certainly has. he said slave societies went on and on for centuries without any challege, but does this justify it? no. Also, increased living conditions do not overshadow mathmatical fact. Of wich the simplest math is Capitalism fails for everyone but the rich. I wish i could call YOUR bullshit propaganda, but that would imply it is believable.

[Tokyorosebiz]

What has happened to our Great Country check out THE PARTY OF SLEAZE by TOKYO ROSE

[Ganbertuli]

@BrettDunbar yeah me too, so i can become the second smartest person on this earth.

[ronpaulfan1]

Go read a book on Austrian Economics. Capitalism, or Free Markets as it were, is NOT the same as Crony Capitalism, Corporatism, Fascism, Central Banking, Funny Money, Inflationism, and Devluation. People don't like the Free Market system. Well, where on Earth can you find a Free Market system. Currently there is no Capitalism; it is all Crony Capitalism, Corporatism, Fascism, Funny Money, Devlauation, and Inflationism. This all stems from your pals the Central Banks and Federal Governments.

[perdondaris]

@ronpaulfan1 Yes it is. What are you going to do? Ban corporations? Are you going to force monopolies to breakup? You are against antitrust legislation. Ban corporate money in political campaigns? You stand for Citizens United. You Austrians are basically economic pacifists. Let's roll the dice and hope some billionaire doesn't use his capital for nefarious purposes. Let the market decide if dioxin is good for you. After all it is an oracle of indisputable prophecy for you guys isn't it?

[UponInfinity]

@ronpaulfan1 Well said. Chomsky never talks about any of that. I wonder why.

[Laughingblades]

@ronpaulfan1 You're right, what you're talking about is Economic Darwinism, Social Darwinism predicated on the ability to obtain capital, a system which devalues and destroys it's elderly and infirmed as has been proven anywhere it's been tried. It selects for whatever is best for buisness and leads to corporatism. You may object to this by falling into the same trap that communists fall into by relying on a naive apathetic selfishly malicious species to be fair reasonable responsible & informed

[qwertypoiu4321]

More marxist economic nonsense from Chomsky.

0:41- If you want to use moral arguments instead of utilitarian arguments you could point out that the voluntary flow of capital of capitalism is more moral than coercive socialism by definition. That would be an argument in favor of voluntary capitalism.

1:06- That is a lie. The 1900s in Russia under Lenin/Stalin led to the deaths of tens of millions of people creating a horrid, starved third world country.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Chomsky has reserved much contempt for Marxism as well as capitalism, particularly its Leninist and Stalinist variants. I've read Chomsky's book on anarchism and he is a big fan of Mikhail Bakunin, who was known for having heated disputes with Marx over Marx's closet authoritarianism. Bottom line, Chomsky is an anarchist. Not a Marxist.

[qwertypoiu4321]

@mojorhythm I am not talking about the *aesthetic* political differences An-Syn's have with Marxists, I am talking about the Marxist LTV economic fantasy, of which An-Syn's wholly borrow without adjustment or modification.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Wrong. If you think that Marxism and anarcho-syndicalism are different in form yet the same in substance, you would be talking out of your ass. Marxism advocates a "dictatorship of the proletariat" stage where a Worker's Party overthrows the bourgeoisie government and seizes power. Anarcho syndicalism is what happened in Spain in 1936. It is intellectually lazy to equivocate the two terms. Strawmanning the other side is not a noble endeavor by any means.

[qwertypoiu4321]

@mojorhythm If you read or were able to comprehend my last post you would not say it is 'wrong'. Once again, I am not talking about the *aesthetic* **political** differences--of which you just rambled--An-Syn's have with Marxists, as between the Dic-Of-Th-Pro of Marxists and the Dictatorship-by-Referendum of An-Syns. I am, once again, talking about the Marxist, fallacious, self-refuting labor theory of value economic fantasy of which An-Syn's wholly borrow without adjustment or modification.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Bullshit. 100%, stone-cold, unadulterated bullshit. Anarcho-syndicalism does not necessarily entail the labor theory of value unlike Marxism. For one, I accept the subjective theory of value, but I still think that the means of production should be democratically controlled, for utilitarian reasons.

[edeneye808]

"I rearize dat arot of rar economic system you know has arot of flaws...you know the rich have the like big gap between like rich and poor...but it's together now because there's been like increasing standards of living...the why it's still around...well I'm...um, perhaps my question hehehe could be put a little differently..." God damn don't you just want curb stomp this dyslexic asshole.

[agapeiron]

Why do free market idealists and other market ideology nutballs feel the need to leave their droppings on so many Chomsky videos?

Because Chomsky stings. They can't take it; they need to lash out emotionally and leave little turds at the foot of anything that might be in favor of social justice, equity, solidarity. It hurts them.

Learn their economic theories. See how they define terms and where their values are: at the extreme right, licking the boots of big business and corporate power.

[MultiSmartass1]

@agapeiron Because Free Market followers are no different from Christians and Muslims and other religious nuts.

Its gotten to the point that Capitalism is now essentially a secular religion and the Free Market is chanted as Buddhist type mantra by its adherents.

Think about it.

Ever heard a person say "God will provide" or "God's Will"?

Its the same thing-"The market will provide" or "Leave it to the market."

[agapeiron]

@MultiSmartass1 Yes. That's what's so interesting about them. For them, the market can't be conceived of politically; it's this neutral sphere which, says Hayek, we cannot in any sense conceive of in terms of "social justice." But at the same time, the free market (their idealization of the economic) is the answer to nearly EVERY political problem! So it takes on a transcendental character. I think this ideology needs the straw man of Stalinism as an ideological supplement to survive.

[MultiSmartass1]

@agapeiron That's their idelogical internal contradiction.

It also their conceptualization of society and the world in general:Let the market run free and solve for x. x meaning any problem or issue that comes up.

Social Justice has no meaning for them because they do not want a selfless world but a selfish world.

They like the brand of economic social darwinism that they peddle.

If you have societies based on generosity, then you have evil.

What you need is people at each other throats.

[agapeiron]

@MultiSmartass1 Yes. And the a priori assumption they need to empower this secular religion is that from now until the sun burns out, capitalism will remain and human beings will not actualize a truly democratic politics. This shows how deeply cynical and elitist they are about ordinary people in general; they believe they are simpletons, that they don't have the degrees in economics they have, so they must shut the fuck up and not develop an emancipatory politics.

[MultiSmartass1]

@agapeiron They dont want an emancipatory politics.

They need people to believe they have opportuntities when there are little to none.

They need the average joe to remain in his lowly position. After all, somebody has got to be the Janitor and clean shit up. Sombody has got make the hotel beds, drive the trucks, deliver pizzas and documents and all the other basic tasks that make up society.

Access to better education, better income is not healthy for societies like the US but unhealthy.

[mojorhythm]

@MultiSmartass1 Ron Paul, Ludwig Von Mises and Murray Rothbard are the free market holy trinity. Their seven commandments would be as follows:

1. Thou shalt love the gold standard

2. Thou shalt have no other economic system before me (capitalism)

3. Remember Tax Day, and hold it in contempt

4, Thou shalt not initiate force

5. Thou shalt hold property rights before all else, even human welfare

6. Pursue wealth

7. Forget all but self

[MultiSmartass1]

@mojorhythm I can think of a couple more:

8. Honor thy investor and shareholder.

9. Thou shalt not tax corporations

10. Do not covet European social welfare systems.

[mojorhythm]

@MultiSmartass1 I forgot to add one more, I guess I should replace it with "forget all but self" since that is already entailed by the other commandments:

7. Thou shalt deny the existence of negative externalities

[qwertypoiu4321]

@mojorhythm That 4th commandment especially sounds good, maybe one day you will understand it.

[mojorhythm]

I understand how retarded it is. In a libertopia, any force can be simply described as retaliatory and it is justified.

[qwertypoiu4321]

@mojorhythm If you commit unsolicited, non-consensual aggression you should be charged as such, unrelated to what a self-serving, ignorant thug like you wants to be moral or not.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Okay, what if you refuse to obey the social contract of the nation-state you live in and evade your taxes.  Have you initiated force against your government? Do they have the right to treat you accordingly? According to your own non-aggression principle they do.

[qwertypoiu4321]

@mojorhythm There is no consensual social contract. That is like saying Egyptians had a social contract to obey with Mubarak, whom claimed no more authority than the US has. The coercive State is committing unsolicited, non-consensual aggression; a robber can not claim self-defense if someone defends themselves against their robbery.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 You are able to opt out of the contract anytime you want. If you don't like the contract, you can pack up your bags and leave. At least if you live in a democratic society, you, like the rest of the public, have some role in what the state does and can change its policies by vote or direct action. Mubarak was a dictator who did not give his citizens any role in the shaping of the public sphere. That made him an immoral douche-bag with criminal tendencies.

[qwertypoiu4321]

@mojorhythm Anarcho-Syndicalism is--just as Marxism--economically based wholly on the unicorn labor theory of value, wholly. If you reject the LTV--as you just did, *unlike* what An-Syn advocates--then LTV exploitation theory, and therefore class conflict, crumble since you kicked out their LTV foundation. Without the LTV, ET or CC and is no support for An-Syn.

[qwertypoiu4321]

In regard to non-economic political issues, the US State claims no different authority than Mubarak claimed. If you believe the mafia dominating your col-de-sac is voluntary and if you do not like it, well, you can just flee for your life, you admit that you are just as much a statist as any stalinist.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Standard libertarian rhetoric; demonize the other side and take their ideas to extreme and absurd conclusions. I say that paying taxes is part of the social contract you have agreed to, therefore I advocate total and unrelenting government force in all areas of our lives. I am going to call you out on these bullshit strawman arguments, so stop making them.

[mojorhythm]

The social contract does not become a contract if its participants cannot opt out. If you live in a country that will not let you leave, that means it is no longer a voluntary contract. Under those circumstances, taxation and the rule of law are force. This is why Stalinist Russia and Cuba are not examples of functional social contracts. Furthermore, I provided evidence and grounding logic for the social contract and you just ignored it, proving you are driven by ideology and not facts.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 The reason I am an anarcho-syndicalist is because I believe that it is an extension of positive liberty and will result in greater happiness. An economic system that rewards cooperation and integration with the community and the workplace scores a win for me. My political ideas flow directly from my desire utilitarian ethic- not from boilerplate Marxist ideology. The labor theory of value is not a necessary and sufficient condition for An-Syn.

[qwertypoiu4321]

There is no such thing as coercive liberty. The whole point of exchange (economics itself) is to supply human demand, period. Your incoherent rambling about committing immoral coercion is a whole different subject than economics, which you base--of course--on LTV nonsense, whether you admit it or not. There is no voluntary social contract; once again, if the mafia comes and dominates your col-de-sac then starts stealing your money that is not voluntary; fleeing for your life is not voluntary.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Then you have just proven to me that you are driven by ideology and not facts. An unwillingness to look at the facts is the classic symptom of a deluded mind. There is grounding science and game theory logic that supports the social contract, and you do not seem the slightest bit interested in looking into it. It is futile trying to convince someone who already has their mind made up.

[mojorhythm]

The mafia is bound to the social contract of the nation-state they are a part of. The social contract stipulates that they are breaking the law and have no legal basis for setting their own social contract. What the mafia is doing is genuinely illegitimate. Again, you are forced to resort to hysterical exaggeration, comparing a nation-state to the mafia to try and make your case credible. This is classic black-and-white delusional thinking on your part.

[qwertypoiu4321]

You are a typical criminal bodyguard. You say the coercive mafia is 'genuinely illegitimate', then give no evidence the coercive State is based off of any other principle than the mafia. I make this point to you and you scoff at the suggestion of that fact; how dare someone question the criminal State?!? You wave off logic and say I am the one being irrational. You give no actual 'defense' of your criminal, non-consensual 'social contract', yet say I am the one driven by ideology. Pathetic.

[mojorhythm]

@qwertypoiu4321 Do you want to know why the State is legitimate and the Mafia is a criminal gang? The Mafia does not own anything to contract about; the State does. Like it or not, you are living on the territory of your nation-state, and therefore you have agreed to participate in its social contract. I provided sources backing up the social contract below and you have ignored them again. The longer you keep this up, the more deluded you prove yourself to be.

[mojorhythm]

Also, notice how you have to label the State the "coercive State" in some bullshit rhetorical crusade to try and make the other side look like the pure manifestation of evil and terror. A word to the wise: if you are going to use paranoid rhetoric that makes you sound like a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, at least ground your case in strong evidence and common sense.

[mojorhythm]

There is science and logic behind the social contract. Read up on the science in Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, ed., Moral Psychology, vol. 1, pp. 53-119 and pp. 143-64 (MIT Press, 2008) and the grounding logic in Ken Binmore's Game Theory and the Social Contract: Vol. 1 (MIT Press, 1994), Vol. 2 (MIT Press, 1998).

[migsluck1]

@Lamboragon I guess I should retract my statement about not agreeing with him on a single thing. I'm guilty of being so blinded by the gap in our economics that are I don't care to recognize even the slightest similarities. In my eyes economic freedom is the fundamental element, if not the most important, and I hold that in high regards.

[migsluck1]

@Lamboragon Haha I know that my friend. Me = Not Socialist.

[migsluck1]

@Lamboragon I've studied Noam's work and I don't strongly agree with him on anything. I'm a free market capitalist.

[migsluck1]

@Lamboragon Yup. Fuck this guy. He talks at college campuses for tens of thousands of dollars a pop, books and online lectures for fees. He's invested in numerous corporations for his retirement. FUCK HIM. He talks about property being theft while he REAPS THE BENEFITS. Anti capitalist? Go fuck yourself you buckeyed cunt. Another rich man telling the working class how they should be living their lives.

[cpricher]

free us from Babylon 

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon But you are right about one thing, you ARE indeed a real 'winner'! LOL!

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Ok Wage Slave. I'll remember that from my flat in The Netherlands....

Good Luck!

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon You really are a sad little thing....

My Dog.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Ok moron.... Let's try it this way. Show me a reputable study that refutes my study. >:-)

Put your ideology where your mouth is Pussy.

My true side is I have nothing but contempt for losers such as yourself. Really, you should kill yourself today. A firearm would be quick.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Ok Loser, I'll do that.

Please, go shoot yourself in the face griefer, not one person on this planet will miss you.....

[eaodak]

@eaodak BAM!

Your Womanhood just got slammed to the floor AGAIN!

You are My Dog, I am Your Master.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon YOU HAVE TO GO FIND THE REPORT YOURSELF. I am not here to spoon feed you. If you care to understand things, you will seek out knowledge, where ever it may lead you. Make no mistake friend, I would much rather have come to the honest conclusion that I was born in the land of the free and brave. but that simply is not the case.

If you don't care to seek truth, then you can simply reinforce your comforting ideology. Either way, my life does not change in the slightest.

Good luck.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Is the Central Intelligence Agency a Liberal Bias too? 

I'll let you take a moment, catch your breath and scrape yourself up off the floor.

You can thank me later for your free education.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Did you hear that "BAM"? That was me slamming what is left of your 'manhood' to the floor.\

Now go away and die from a lack of healthcare.....

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Inefficiency Hurts U.S. in Longevity Rankings

By NICHOLAS BAKALAR

Published: November 29, 2010

By any measure, the United States spends more on health care than any other nation. Yet according to the World Fact Book (published by the Central Intelligence Agency), it ranks 49th in life expectancy.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Annual Costs of Health Care Per Capita In Iceland, the annual cost of health care per capita is $3,159. In Japan, the annual cost of health care per capita is $2,249. In Sweden, the annual cost of health care per capita is $2,745. In Switzerland, the annual cost of health care per capita is $3,847. In United Kingdom, the annual cost of health care per capita is $2,317. In United States, the annual cost of health care per capita is $5,711.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Life Expectancy

The life expectancy in the U.S. is lower than in many other developed countries. The life expectance in Japan is 82.1. The life expectancy in Germany is 79. The life expectancy in Switzerland is 81.3. The life expectancy in the United Kingdom is 79. The life expectancy in the Unites States is 77.



[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Infant Mortality

The Infant mortality rate, the rate of deaths per 1,000 live births, remains higher in the U.S. than in most other developed nations. The infant mortality rate in Japan is 2.8. The infant mortality rate in Germany is 3.9. The infant mortality rate in Switzerland is 4.2. The infant mortality rate in the United Kingdom is 5.1. The infant mortality rate in the United States is 6.8.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Healthcare Costs Around the World

According to Reuters, “The United States spends more on healthcare than any country in the world but has higher rates of infant mortality, diabetes and other ills than many other developed countries.”

Visual Economics: Healthcare Costs Around the World -

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon 70 percent of adults in the UK and 93 percent in Switzerland say they get same day or next day access to doctors when sick. The comparable number in the US is just 57 percent

Countries like New Zealand, the Netherlands and UK have easy access to after-hours care. Not so in the US

Looking on the bright side, the US is near the top in quick access to specialists

Healthcare Finance News

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Findings:

31 percent of people in the US report spending lots of time with insurance paperwork. Other countries with competitive insurance markets (e.g., Switzerland, Netherlands, Germany) have rates about half of that

Even people in the US with health insurance run into problems paying for health care. That’s untrue in other countries

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon You have to search the study out, this is a report ABOUT the study. Must you be obtuse?

As I predicted, you are nothing but a griefing asshole. NO STUDY, unless it agrees with your preconceived idea, would be 'unbiased'. Your definition of 'bias' is anything that disagrees with you. That is why your life is over and I enjoy one. What a sad little person you are.

You should get back to your basement manifesto.

Good luck Wage Slave!

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Google this study

"US gets poorest value for healthcare spending, the Netherlands the best"

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon But I let the private health insurers tell me themselves. During their crusade to preserve their game and go against the will of the majority they said something very clear. If there was a public plan, or even an option, then such a condition would drive them out of business. Why did they say? Unfair competition,since the public option is not a profit based solution.

What more 'proof' do I need?

Good luck!

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Wow, what a dishonest question. Since the US has never had a general national healthcare plan, how on earth could I provide data? You know better. You also know that whatever source I provide, you will defame and degrade, you have clearly already made up your mind.

I live in the Netherlands,my healthcare is higher and cheaper than it ever was in the US. That s my proof. 1st hand evidence.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon "The US Private Heath system is only messed up because of how regulated it is. " Wow. Not even close. Here is the problem you may be having, your 'accounting' is faulty. Private enterprises are wonderful for squeezing every drop of blood from labor, but they loose all those gains and more when one includes the cost of profit. Public inst's may, may, be less efficient with labor, but they make it all back by lacking wasteful profit.

The private insurers said exactly this!

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon I believe he identifies himself as a 'Libertarian Socialist', if that is liberal by your definition (not completely unreasonable at all) then ok. But I think, especially in US parlance, 'liberal' is more often used in a pejorative sense.

[eaodak]

@Lamboragon Milton Fiendman and his idiotic theories have largely been proven wrong. Friedman was a tool of the capitalist class, and an apologist. You would do better to provide different examples to illustrate your point.

Failed Linguist? 2Maj in the next post said it best.

[hideandgoseekjesus]

@Lamboragon

Back yourself up? How are you not a contradiction as I assume you are a self-proclaimed fiscal conservative longing for a return to Reagan economics? 1.6 trillion in 8 years, talk about a long term plan for economic growth!

[WorldPeace4All6]

@Lamboragon

You are highly misinformed about Chomsky, anarchy, liberals, linguistics, etc... Where the hell is all your information from? Somehow, you're trying to fit Chomsky in with big government and Reagan in with small government, but both are completely wrong. It's the exact opposite. Chomsky has been an anarchist nearly his whole life while Reagan was president of a democratic republic with centralized power. What the hell are you thinking?

[2Majesties]

@Lamboragon You're WAY out of your depth, grasshopper. Proven wrong by whom? Complex theories are never completely RIGHT or completely WRONG; they always undergo revisions as humans learn more about evolution & how the brain actually works. I guess you missed that day of class. You know, your an unpleasant, unimformed, immature jerk. Have some humility. Grow up. Go argue with yourself...son.

[2Majesties]

@Lamboragon Relax. Take a deep breath. If you don't like Chomsky, that's fine. Don't watch any more of these videos. But, this is a Chomsky video; you're a visitor here--it's your job to refute his positions in this video. By the way, you give your immaturity away by calling Chomsky a "failed linguist," for it's his contributions to this field that make him the most important linguist of the last century. Sowell and Friedman are dead ends; for your mind's sake, expand your horizons. Read more.

[2Majesties]

@Lamboragon Chomsky is a dissident socialist/anarchist; he's as critical of the liberals as he is of the conservatives. Just read his work. Look, just quit blindly whorshipping "the market" and read everthing you can get your hands on. Give yourself time, another decade, to digest other economic perspectives. Realize those on the left are not out to destroy civilization & want to make economies work better for people. Relax and enjoy the intellectual give & take. Good luck.

[2Majesties]

@Lamboragon I've read quite a bit of both TS & MF, and just because one writes a textbook doesn't mean he's not an idealogue. By the way, I'm not a liberal and neither is Chomsky. You've got a long way to go, so don't be so convinced of anything yet; give it another ten years or so of reading economic theory from the left and the right. I suspect if you're intellectually honest with yourself, you'll come to realize it's not either/or, that there are lots of effective ways to set up economies.

[2Majesties]

@Lamboragon Education is nothing without critical thinking skills. Be careful who you call out, sir. Based on your uninformed comments here, you know very little about economic history. You may have a degree, but you've proved that you have a lot more reading to do.

[2Majesties]

@Lamboragon Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman, to name just two, are psuedointellectual idealogues whose economic conclusions are enticing to some but don't stand up to rational scrutiny. Just the idea of a "free market." Name one country in history that developed using these vaunted principles? Certainly not the US. State intervention in the economy and brute state force have always been the cornerstone of our system. What's free market about slavery and land grab "manifest destiny?" Get real.

[Someideasandstuff]

@Lamboragon Not true. The top 10 countries with the highest standard of living in the world ALL HAVE SOCIALED MEDICINE, including Switzlerland and Luxembourg. "Luxembourg has an extremely high standard of compulsory state-funded healthcare."

[Someideasandstuff]

@Lamboragon But what is said is completely accurate which is why unionization is so important. Even a country like Switzerland with 25% of its workforce belonging to unions, has a competitive economy. The main difference being that instead of the owner keeping most of the profits, the employees get a fairer shake.

[Someideasandstuff]

@Lamboragon Yah, what was your take on the "election" that took place in the book?

[Someideasandstuff]

@Lamboragon You should check out "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists". Good stuff.

[scbluesman13]

@Lamboragon

First off, my education and background has everything to do with contextual history, and Noam Chomsky's got it in spades. Same with Chalmers Johnson. You may not agree with the conclusions Chomsky draws based on his understanding of history, but his understanding of that history is spot on.

You're just all kinds of wrong in this case.

[scbluesman13]

@Lamboragon

Well that's your own opinion, so I guess you respect that. Many others (including myself) would disagree with you, but I'm sure you don't care about that. Thanks again for your substanceless reply stating that someone you criticize has no substance.

[scbluesman13]

@Lamboragon

It sounds like you were trying to insult me, or Mr. Chomsky, or someone, and just ended up constructing a sloppy, meaningless set of sentences. Try to be more clear next time?

[scbluesman13]

Not only does he have facts on his side, but he has facts that are understood within historical context, which is something today's education does not emphasize.

[agnieszkabernstein]

@scbluesman13

Seriously..? I grew up in Poland and Chomsky has most his facts wrong. How sad to see a clearly intelligent guy be so misguided...

[eaodak]

@agnieszkabernstein Did he say something about Poland here?

[xxxLibertinexxx]

Chomsky doesn't lose. Because he has Facts on his side. And he is a master of framing.

[Purrfectstranger]

Chomsky's a wonderful speaker imo. Did the guy at the beginning of the discussion get owned in two sentences what? lol Great upload my friend!

[migsluck1]

@Purrfectstranger It shows just how emotionally charged and intellectually deprived Chomskys "followers" are when they use "imo" topped with terrible grammar and somehow manages to get the highest rating. LOL. O'rly?