This was my daughters favorite queensryche song. She used to sing it into the mic with such conviction. I know why . This was her first concert. Such a good memory.
My husband does not know his biological father, and yet he is the most wonderful dad to our son. He is the definition, in my book of, what it means to be a father. It always brings to mind the nature vs nuture theory, and if my hubby would have been a totally different person having known and been raised by his "real" dad. Let's see how our son turns out. So far, so good, knock on wood. : ) RYCHE ON!
My father and I never got along, the last 5 years of his life we never spoke once. I regret that. This song fit us perfectly. Sometimes, I listen to it as a reminder of my loss and to not make that same mistake with my son.
The first time I heard this song, I related to it big time. Just a few years later, my Dad did build that bridge...Unfortunately he passed away not long after. Just remember all you dead beat daddys out there (you know who you are) Your kids won't always buy your BS.
@titleuk Hell ya. My father ran out and made a new family, left me behind. Its kind of ironic because he introduced me to this song when he was still my hero. I just enjoyed the lyrics, but now I've found it again and it brings back memories. You should try a song called "Cats in the Cradle" by Ugly Kid Joe. Same message.
@39glitznglam DeGarmo actually wrote it about his father, but Tate said that he felt a connection to the lyrics also with his dad, in an interview or notes that I remember reading.
This was me and my dad. As we both got older, we both recognized our mistakes and even though he wasn't there when I was younger, he is now. This song has always spoken to my heart!
the lyrical talent in this song and silent lucidity are incredible. They paint a vivid and relatable picture with almost all their songs. They aren't just musicians, they're storytellers
this song means so much to me,i always get real emotional and teary eyed when i hear it,i never really had a dad,he was on drugs for 30 years,saw him very rarely,im just glad he is finally clean and sober,QR is such an amazing band! love them to death!!
Just another example of why QR is the greatest band of all-time. Every album is emotional, yet completely different than all of their others. Incredible.
@phoenixdawn34 ; karma is real... too real. My ex, whom this song is about to me, took his life on 12/29 when our 17 y/o son was visiting me. This song is about him, his dad, and all the rest of the words inside................i hope your karma is gentler. To me, "you never built it, dad" is a double-edged sword"..............Good luck, Phoenix.................. hugs!
their best album.. though the songs "Empire" and "Silent Lucidity" pulled me in as a fan. Anyone from today's younger generation of lady gagas, spears', and boy bands who doesnt know this band, and these songs, is missing out.
Wow, what a powerful song. This song is more than the music, its a testament to not only to fathers , but to the kids that they left behind. When my dad died when I was 16, I never really understood him. But this song brings a closure and understanding. it makes me strive to not make the same mistakes. Thanks queensryche....
@selfc23fe; my ex took his own life while our son was visiting in Ohio....on 12/29. SELFISH? yeah..but his OWN DAD was a bit selfish, too.............can't even address that here. Just picking up the pieces; i feel ya, man. AWESOME POST!!!
My father left me when I was 7, after wanting a boy so bad; then I found him when I was 23. 4 years later He committed suicide. My padre medejo cuando tenia 7 años, despues de querer un muchacho con tanto anhelo; cuando tenia 23 lo encontre. 4 años mas tarde se suicido. R.I P.
Yeah, I work a lot to, I am in the Army. I have 2 little girls. As hard and as long as I work, I try and make time for my girls. I think children understand how dad's have to work but, they want that LOVE when you're not. My father was cold and distant, I don't understand that though, I can't wait to see my kids when I get home. I love my baby-girls.
@ssweeps1 So was my dad, also abusive phisically and verbally, and now he is tryin to make it up i am 24 with my own son, but its to late, the best thing of it all is that you can change it all with your family!
This is reverse for me...my father was always ther for me but I was distant...after I grew up and entered my mid twentys...we became very close and he was my best friend...the nicest man i ever met....how many 60 year old men will lay down on the ground and play with dogs like a child? in 04 cancer came ever so silent and within a month my father gave in to misery and death.........and now me and his dogs are waiting to see him on the other side...
For me I find Queensryche to be a band that can utilize a special method to touch anyone at anytime within their music.They simply are the best in the industry,period.Unfortunately,the "bridge" between my father and I just got blown apart.And that sucks!!! I guess time will tell and hopefully heal.Peace!
my Father was never around..knew him 4 a few years when i was 17-20..but thats it..never tried to contact me or anything..so this song hits home..One of the Most Powerfull Vocalists Ever..!!!..an Amazing Voice..
I know man,I miss Chris DeGarmo's SOUND and SONG WRITING.I know Michael Wilton misses him too,but he probably won't say that in public,on account of Mike Stone.Their Sound just isn't right.
hey man it was a surreal moment when i met them was crazy!! so amazing how they are so down to earth and not all bigheaded at all,if u have a myspace i can give u mine and show u all the pics i have! thats awesome that u met the CRUE another sweet band,but QR are one of my favs of alltime so it will be a day i never forget EVER!
thanks mike! your an awesome person too man,glad and proud to be your buddy,and QR are amazing,the emotion and power they put in their songs is rivaled by NONE! gonna get a whole sleeve tatted of QR! i met them all too very cool down to earth people,they all treat their fans with respect and really love their fans,its an aamzing feeling to talk with some of ur idols and they are totally down to earth!
to me this is a part 2 to cats in the cradle.I relate to both songs as though my father and I had written them.the influence of both songs has caused me to to reach out to my father.though my efforts were futile, I have made peace with the circumstance.the problems my father and his father end with me.I credit this song to helping me take a stand against an emotionless parenthood. my son will know me!!
and some one asked the inspiration behind this song?? it is was inspired by than lead guitarist Chris Degarmo's scared relataionship with his father...love you chris..hope you come back to Queensryche one day!! one of my wishes
i LOVE this song...im a HUGE queensryche fan and this is one of my fav songs by them,i can realte to it 100% never had a relationship with my father always off doing drugs going to jail...abd he would ONLY write and try to keep in contact when he was in prison and then when he got out its like i dont exist,only seen him twice in the last 6 years...for some reason everytime i hear this song and hear geoff's beautiful voice i got all teary eyed and choked up...
You are an awesome person Patrick and I too was a victim of a father who just was not there a whole lot...but you know what man? That is what is so great we are all NOT our stupid parents, we are so much more and I feel a pride in knowing you and others here and QR rules!!!!
Donivendetta, it's ok. Don't feel guilty about it. 10 years is along time. I'm sure he appreciated every moment. I'm a dad of 6 yr old twins who I'd die for at any moment, no matter what they did to me or anyone else. It's a "dad thing". It's ok man. Ryche n roll
the song is reverse for me my father always tried to reach out for me but i didnt try. the last 10 years of his life was good and we became best friends until cancer caused misery and death leaving a part of me that feels like i didnt do enough. i must find a way to forgive my self because my father is a part of me and i do not want to dishonor him.
Followed this band since they started...For anyone having a Father that cant let go of the past and relize they have a SON! God bless them! But truly WTF
Queensryche are NOT an underrated band friend!!! They are one of the best bands ever!! The Pink Floyd of Metal! And yes Tate is one of the best singer!
I´m agree but,I think they´re like RUSH playing Heavy Metal,specially Scott..anyway,I saw them in Buenos Aires (ARGENTINA)and was AMAZING!!!!,Geoff´s voice is incredible;powerfull and expressive.Greetings from ARGENTINA.
yeah theyre still together. new albums arent as good as some old though. although OPM2 kicked major ass especially I'm American and The Chase (its got the amazind Dio singing as Dr.X)
This song is so great! One of the best made by Queensryche. Promised Land (1994) and Hear in the Now Frontier (1997) are two very underestimated albums. That's for sure.
This song is so great! One of the best made by Queensryche. Promised Land (1994) and Hear in the Now Frontier (1997) are two very underestimated albums. That's for sure.
This was my daughters favorite queensryche song. She used to sing it into the mic with such conviction. I know why . This was her first concert. Such a good memory.
tlstar1L 1 year ago
My husband does not know his biological father, and yet he is the most wonderful dad to our son. He is the definition, in my book of, what it means to be a father. It always brings to mind the nature vs nuture theory, and if my hubby would have been a totally different person having known and been raised by his "real" dad. Let's see how our son turns out. So far, so good, knock on wood. : ) RYCHE ON!
lowriderbandfan 1 year ago
Queensryche/promised land tour (w/typo-negative) was my first concert. the bass was so deep i could feel my organs vibrating on the inside.
THECURELOST13 1 year ago
My father and I never got along, the last 5 years of his life we never spoke once. I regret that. This song fit us perfectly. Sometimes, I listen to it as a reminder of my loss and to not make that same mistake with my son.
You never built it dad....
GenXRanter 1 year ago
this song makes me cry
Eva87003 1 year ago
The first time I heard this song, I related to it big time. Just a few years later, my Dad did build that bridge...Unfortunately he passed away not long after. Just remember all you dead beat daddys out there (you know who you are) Your kids won't always buy your BS.
JNvids 1 year ago 2
still love the tune same reason as may ,reminds me of cats in the craddle but i like johnny cash's version
chris2words 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
De Garmo wrote that song for his father, who was not there for some situations. We missed you playing with the 'Ryche Chris!!!
Neueregel 1 year ago
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Neueregel 1 year ago
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Neueregel 1 year ago
Ran across this song...kinda bumbed me out,im so sending this link to my dad on his birthday....fucker,can anyone relate?
titleuk 1 year ago 2
@titleuk - ABSOLUTELY CAN!
killyrkirsten 1 year ago
@titleuk I am with you, bro. Ive listen to song for years, hoping one day my loser Dad would hear it.
WiLdHeRbY 1 year ago
@WiLdHeRbY i feel the same
pr0phat69 1 year ago
@titleuk Hell ya. My father ran out and made a new family, left me behind. Its kind of ironic because he introduced me to this song when he was still my hero. I just enjoyed the lyrics, but now I've found it again and it brings back memories. You should try a song called "Cats in the Cradle" by Ugly Kid Joe. Same message.
18MarksMan18 1 year ago
always loved theis band
metalwizard65 1 year ago
f u j.a,.!!!!
007BondgirlKarena 1 year ago
i will always love QR..
mickycee64 1 year ago 2
Geoff Tate is a mastermind with his lyrics! He summed up my childhood with one word "Bridge" and the pain still lingers within my soul.
39glitznglam 1 year ago 2
@39glitznglam DeGarmo actually wrote it about his father, but Tate said that he felt a connection to the lyrics also with his dad, in an interview or notes that I remember reading.
xAquinasx 1 year ago
@39glitznglam chris wrote em
asasassify 1 year ago
Father's day coming up, are you still bitter at your parents, or will you build a bridge for once..
raiders2000 1 year ago
@raiders2000 For what has been done, nothing can repair. foundations have even been blown apart. Sorry dad------NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dking70 1 year ago
This is just like Cats in the Cradle
hatelizwebber 1 year ago
@hatelizwebber similar story but with that ryche edge and 10 times better better music
stimpp 1 year ago
awesome song one of QRs bestest!!!!
degamaster88 1 year ago
Makes me think of my dad. I have 3?
rtuhlik 1 year ago
I'm not much of a Queensryche fan, but my mother goes to their shows...
She was playing this song the other night, and I fell in love with it.
HakuRocker 1 year ago 2
This was me and my dad. As we both got older, we both recognized our mistakes and even though he wasn't there when I was younger, he is now. This song has always spoken to my heart!
kathigentle 1 year ago
This song to me is a representation of me and my dad he left when i was two years
nightspark43 1 year ago
if not the best of all time, definitely one the best 2-3 in metal history . rych n roll folks!!
Neueregel 1 year ago
the lyrical talent in this song and silent lucidity are incredible. They paint a vivid and relatable picture with almost all their songs. They aren't just musicians, they're storytellers
Utubepirate 1 year ago 2
I love Hard Rock and Heavy Metal to death
NASCAR90 1 year ago
played this song at the show i went to, fucken rocked
Jeff19861986Jeff 1 year ago
they don't create music like this anymore . thats why all the 80's and 90's bands are able to come back
cornhole5151 1 year ago
What can i say Really.. I agree, I LOVE These guys.
rush4eva 1 year ago
this song means so much to me,i always get real emotional and teary eyed when i hear it,i never really had a dad,he was on drugs for 30 years,saw him very rarely,im just glad he is finally clean and sober,QR is such an amazing band! love them to death!!
CaptainAmerica4Ever 1 year ago 3
Great song and video! Awesome band!
puacino 1 year ago 3
Just another example of why QR is the greatest band of all-time. Every album is emotional, yet completely different than all of their others. Incredible.
ZillaFitness 2 years ago 17
same boat...Unemotional materialistic selfish father..."too emotional" son. But Karma's a bitch and we all learn later
phoenixdawn34 2 years ago
@phoenixdawn34 ; karma is real... too real. My ex, whom this song is about to me, took his life on 12/29 when our 17 y/o son was visiting me. This song is about him, his dad, and all the rest of the words inside................i hope your karma is gentler. To me, "you never built it, dad" is a double-edged sword"..............Good luck, Phoenix.................. hugs!
amery2u 2 years ago
I am I
Bridge
Lady Jane....
their best album.. though the songs "Empire" and "Silent Lucidity" pulled me in as a fan. Anyone from today's younger generation of lady gagas, spears', and boy bands who doesnt know this band, and these songs, is missing out.
doma3333 2 years ago 3
my dads a total douche
i relate very well with this song
asasassify 2 years ago 2
bad ass song all the around.4 dreelz
4dreelz 2 years ago
Wow, what a powerful song. This song is more than the music, its a testament to not only to fathers , but to the kids that they left behind. When my dad died when I was 16, I never really understood him. But this song brings a closure and understanding. it makes me strive to not make the same mistakes. Thanks queensryche....
selfc23fe 2 years ago 13
@selfc23fe; my ex took his own life while our son was visiting in Ohio....on 12/29. SELFISH? yeah..but his OWN DAD was a bit selfish, too.............can't even address that here. Just picking up the pieces; i feel ya, man. AWESOME POST!!!
amery2u 2 years ago
An absolute masterpiece......from a hugely underrated album. Superb stuff.
fineasski 2 years ago 5
My father left me when I was 7, after wanting a boy so bad; then I found him when I was 23. 4 years later He committed suicide. My padre medejo cuando tenia 7 años, despues de querer un muchacho con tanto anhelo; cuando tenia 23 lo encontre. 4 años mas tarde se suicido. R.I P.
umbreakebo 2 years ago 2
hey man...hang in there! you will be alright ! stay positive.
grimes8615 2 years ago 3
Thank you...for your support, best words to hear ; when I'm feeling down...
umbreakebo 2 years ago 3
My Dad was ALWAYS working...
This song is such a reminder to take a time out...
ssweeps1 2 years ago
Yeah, I work a lot to, I am in the Army. I have 2 little girls. As hard and as long as I work, I try and make time for my girls. I think children understand how dad's have to work but, they want that LOVE when you're not. My father was cold and distant, I don't understand that though, I can't wait to see my kids when I get home. I love my baby-girls.
rophil31 2 years ago
@ssweeps1 So was my dad, also abusive phisically and verbally, and now he is tryin to make it up i am 24 with my own son, but its to late, the best thing of it all is that you can change it all with your family!
pr0phat69 2 years ago
its Never 2 Late !!!
blaquedge 2 years ago
Geoff Tate é demais!!!
96266818 2 years ago
my father to a tee..... he died without me ever really knowing me. powerful song, by a brilliant band
fireguye4 2 years ago 3
This is reverse for me...my father was always ther for me but I was distant...after I grew up and entered my mid twentys...we became very close and he was my best friend...the nicest man i ever met....how many 60 year old men will lay down on the ground and play with dogs like a child? in 04 cancer came ever so silent and within a month my father gave in to misery and death.........and now me and his dogs are waiting to see him on the other side...
Donisworld 2 years ago
For me I find Queensryche to be a band that can utilize a special method to touch anyone at anytime within their music.They simply are the best in the industry,period.Unfortunately,the "bridge" between my father and I just got blown apart.And that sucks!!! I guess time will tell and hopefully heal.Peace!
SpliffhappySmillie 2 years ago
my Father was never around..knew him 4 a few years when i was 17-20..but thats it..never tried to contact me or anything..so this song hits home..One of the Most Powerfull Vocalists Ever..!!!..an Amazing Voice..
unclemacs 2 years ago 4
I'm sooooo happy they're coming to Fort Lauderdale in November!!
finolito 2 years ago
to me this is a part 2 to cats in the cradle
kross1010c 2 years ago
you right is very much like a part 2 to cats in the cradle
huelink100 2 years ago
Love this song!!!
Smacky52 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A good song, but too bad this video blows. And they're embarassed about the Queen of the Ryche video. Did they ever see this one?
DimitriVoshivich 2 years ago
Chris DeGarmo, where art thou???
guitarlawyer75 2 years ago
Comment removed
finolito 2 years ago
I know man,I miss Chris DeGarmo's SOUND and SONG WRITING.I know Michael Wilton misses him too,but he probably won't say that in public,on account of Mike Stone.Their Sound just isn't right.
wilsonshane 2 years ago
a real tear jerker for me [personal reasons], I love this song!
Queensrychefreak 2 years ago 5
MickMarsFan1
hey man it was a surreal moment when i met them was crazy!! so amazing how they are so down to earth and not all bigheaded at all,if u have a myspace i can give u mine and show u all the pics i have! thats awesome that u met the CRUE another sweet band,but QR are one of my favs of alltime so it will be a day i never forget EVER!
CaptainAmerica4Ever 2 years ago 3
Queensryche! WoW ! What talent and emotion put into there music! Simply AWESOME
Mcjabberwalkie 2 years ago 3
thanks mike! your an awesome person too man,glad and proud to be your buddy,and QR are amazing,the emotion and power they put in their songs is rivaled by NONE! gonna get a whole sleeve tatted of QR! i met them all too very cool down to earth people,they all treat their fans with respect and really love their fans,its an aamzing feeling to talk with some of ur idols and they are totally down to earth!
CaptainAmerica4Ever 2 years ago
Thats AWESOME that you met them all. Im jealous of you lol. And ive met Motley Crue and their the same way with their fans.
MickMarsFan1 2 years ago
This video reminds me of Ugly Kid Joe's video for Cats In The Cradle
KrystalKyle1989 2 years ago 2
to me this is a part 2 to cats in the cradle.I relate to both songs as though my father and I had written them.the influence of both songs has caused me to to reach out to my father.though my efforts were futile, I have made peace with the circumstance.the problems my father and his father end with me.I credit this song to helping me take a stand against an emotionless parenthood. my son will know me!!
rockgod420z 2 years ago
and some one asked the inspiration behind this song?? it is was inspired by than lead guitarist Chris Degarmo's scared relataionship with his father...love you chris..hope you come back to Queensryche one day!! one of my wishes
CaptainAmerica4Ever 2 years ago
i LOVE this song...im a HUGE queensryche fan and this is one of my fav songs by them,i can realte to it 100% never had a relationship with my father always off doing drugs going to jail...abd he would ONLY write and try to keep in contact when he was in prison and then when he got out its like i dont exist,only seen him twice in the last 6 years...for some reason everytime i hear this song and hear geoff's beautiful voice i got all teary eyed and choked up...
CaptainAmerica4Ever 2 years ago 4
You are an awesome person Patrick and I too was a victim of a father who just was not there a whole lot...but you know what man? That is what is so great we are all NOT our stupid parents, we are so much more and I feel a pride in knowing you and others here and QR rules!!!!
KDMFtilltheendoftime 2 years ago
Ryche N Roll!!!
tornrbro 3 years ago 2
I'm not really into this song, but I love the album.
waldonewman 3 years ago
This song sums it all up...except there has been no plea to build or mend any bridge!!!
avehombre 3 years ago
Geoff Tate singing this song is priceless...unbelieveable song
RedSox4430 3 years ago 5
queensryche the best band ever !!!!!!!!!!!
bambamh20 3 years ago
awesome nice...
bambamh20 3 years ago
This song has so much meaning for me,truly brilliant song writing.
MetalMelissa 3 years ago 2
Same. A friend bought it for me and I fell to pieces listening to Bridge, missing my Daddio but TOTALLY relating to the lyrics.
knobrock 3 years ago
Yeah, same feelings here. Absolutely beautiful and sad at the same time.
Judezki 2 years ago 2
.......what is the inspiration to write this song... gives me goose bumps everytime!...love this one.
CinnamongirlNL 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Simple music for simple minded people.
LOL. LONG LIVE IGNORANT SHEEP...
ruleoforder 3 years ago
Donivendetta, it's ok. Don't feel guilty about it. 10 years is along time. I'm sure he appreciated every moment. I'm a dad of 6 yr old twins who I'd die for at any moment, no matter what they did to me or anyone else. It's a "dad thing". It's ok man. Ryche n roll
PSHANZ111 3 years ago
pshanz111, thanks for the reply. with twins you have a double blessing!peace to you and your family.
donivendetta 3 years ago
the song is reverse for me my father always tried to reach out for me but i didnt try. the last 10 years of his life was good and we became best friends until cancer caused misery and death leaving a part of me that feels like i didnt do enough. i must find a way to forgive my self because my father is a part of me and i do not want to dishonor him.
donivendetta 3 years ago
This song reminds me of the duty I have to my two sons; to be a responsible and encouraging father.
UdoShan 3 years ago
Followed this band since they started...For anyone having a Father that cant let go of the past and relize they have a SON! God bless them! But truly WTF
McClintock48 3 years ago
Great tune, Great Band.
jkinabru 3 years ago 2
Gracias... no sabes lo importante que es para mi esta cancion.
Markcello 3 years ago
awsome video and great underrated band Jeff Tate is one of the best singers that ever picked up a mic....would love to meet them some day...
tncop705 3 years ago
Queensryche are NOT an underrated band friend!!! They are one of the best bands ever!! The Pink Floyd of Metal! And yes Tate is one of the best singer!
SkataKPonos 3 years ago 3
I´m agree but,I think they´re like RUSH playing Heavy Metal,specially Scott..anyway,I saw them in Buenos Aires (ARGENTINA)and was AMAZING!!!!,Geoff´s voice is incredible;powerfull and expressive.Greetings from ARGENTINA.
rosavil1967 3 years ago
great song,amazing album....
serpato 3 years ago 3
I can't find anything from TRIBE. Which was a great LP.
scozzybear 3 years ago
yeah theyre still together. new albums arent as good as some old though. although OPM2 kicked major ass especially I'm American and The Chase (its got the amazind Dio singing as Dr.X)
Ryche9 3 years ago
Yeah, they are still together, and have several albums after promised land
frankdp23 3 years ago
One of my fav tracks on Promised Land. That album owns.
acefireburst 3 years ago 3
This song is sadly underrated. The whole album is underrated... Queensryche is the best band ever made :D
Flaggius 3 years ago 5
promised land, the last great album of queensryche...
UnFoR1988 3 years ago
For all the ppl who can relate this song is great
you never built the god damn bridge dad
dreamerdrums 3 years ago
happy fucking fathers day
jcapone3rd 3 years ago
As a father to two boys (ages 10 and 5), I pray that I NEVER have to "mend a bridge" like this.
GREAT song, though...
UdoShan 3 years ago
You say, "Son, let's forget the past.
I want another chance, gonna make it last."
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad.
08L1V10N 3 years ago 3
god, I love the ryche...but miss chris
coypoet69 3 years ago
This band kicksass....musically and acoustically with vocals out of this rhelm!
WillowZeyphr 3 years ago
The official videoclip and one of QR best songs. I miss DeGarmo playing his part on the solo.
NERYBRA 3 years ago 4
This song is so great! One of the best made by Queensryche. Promised Land (1994) and Hear in the Now Frontier (1997) are two very underestimated albums. That's for sure.
Queensryche is the best band ever made!
Qrycius 3 years ago 4
ya there's a few good songs but they are nothing compared to mindcrime or empire
iceddust69 3 years ago
This song is so great! One of the best made by Queensryche. Promised Land (1994) and Hear in the Now Frontier (1997) are two very underestimated albums. That's for sure.
Queensryche is the best band ever made!
Qrycius 3 years ago
this song really fits my relationship with my father and step father when they were alive i was never the perfect daughter they had wanted
MITSUKIISDEAD 3 years ago 2
same here
iceddust69 3 years ago
Promised Land is one of my favorite albums, though I have been following them since the early 80s.
WillowZeyphr 3 years ago 3
That album is so great and expressive ... every song got somethin about us all .
Skintearer 4 years ago
the whole promised land album was a perfect expression of a lot of issues i was struggling with back in 94/95. thanks for this video!
jcapone3rd 4 years ago 2
They expressed my feelings back then, and they still rign true today.
jwskull 4 years ago