Why did Obama spend millions of dollars on high priced lawyers to prevent anyone from forcing Hawaiian Officials to reveal the truth about Obama's Birth Certificate, which is that he does NOT have one there, never has. This document is just another forged document like the last one. Neither are legal, valid, certified, stamped, or notarized. Most of all they are NOT Birth Certificates. They are forged Certificates of Live Birth, which is an ultra easy thing to do!
@arrrogantlyignorant Umm no.. Im sure that by now you have discovered that you are wrong.. Barry is not just a nick name. His official name was Barry Sortora. Im sure that you feel stupid now that you know the truth. I hope that you take this opportunity to correct your error. Also you should look up Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178
. It shows that a person can get aHawaiian COLB even if you were born in toledo or chicago. All that was required was a legal residency in Hawaii.
Barry is simply a nickname for Barack like Tommy is for Thomas or Larry is for Lawrence. Learn how to spell. Obama's step fathers name was Soetoro.
The interesting thing about HRS §338-18, that most idiot birthers don't seem to realize is that, it was not signed into law until 1982. I would love to hear you explain exactly how that statute.affected Obama's birth 21 years before it became law. What was that you were mumbling about feeling stupid?
@arrrogantlyignorant I think that you're wrong on the "Barry" thing.. His name was legally Barry. I was sure that you would take the opportunity to correct your error. I guess your too stupid..
This is the biggest fraud to be perpetrated by the United States government. Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen and not eligible to be president of USA. The ramifications of the fraud are tremendous . I hope everyone involved with this cover up is brought to justice. I know this will happen in the future. My prediction is prison time for the many facilitators of this crime against the USA. American citizens will demand accountability for the facilitators of this crime.
Yes, I believe that Barry (Obama) was born in Indonesia and not in the U.S. I also believe that Santa Clause delivers billions of gifts to children all over the world overnight!! Intellectuals and rational thinking people are laughing hysterically at me right now.
Seems U can't even get your "satire" right. Nobody has ever said he was born in Indonesia.
I can't see how BO was born anywhere but Hawaii but what should concern U is the supreme arrogance and contempt towards the public that he & his handlers display. When McCain made public his actual BC the BO crowd eventually issued an electronic COLB in a display of curt "how dare U even ask but we give U this so shut up and go away"
& Just like they refused 2 openup anyof BO history So much 4 Hope&Change
"If I want to go further, than I will go to Hawaii and look at his long form which would not be available to you nor I"
This statement does not make sense.
I can't conceive (forgive the pun) why BO's mother would want to visit Kenya whilst heavily pregnant but the repeated refusal to provide the actual BO is withholding relevant information for him to stand for Pres in the 1st place so on that ground alone he should be legally made to do so. His candidacy should B invalid if he can't or wont.
What is so STUPID about all of these requests to see the actual birth certificate is that someone of authority has most certainly seen the BC. The FBI does an extensive background check prior to anyone running for president since the president is going to be privy to highly sensitive information in addition to daily briefings from the CIA and other agencies. So, there's no need for anyone to see his BC other than the people that needed to verify his eligibility to run prior to his candidacy.
Ok, so "someone in authority" has seen his BC. So that's good enough for you, huh?
Also, you're assuming the FBI has done an "extensive background check" that you also assume included a check of his BC and citizenship status. Therefore with all of these assumptions and people in authority who have supposedly verified all of this for us, we should just accept it, right?
He has shown us the BC. It is apparent that nothing he shows is ever going to be good enough for you so what's the point of going any further. And I guarantee the FBI does an extensive background check that includes his eligibility to run for president. He wouldn't have even been allowed to run had he not been a natural born citizen. Get over it. You're just like all the nutcases that claimed Bush was responsible for 9/11.
Why would you assume that I believe Bush was responsible for 9/11. That has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about and I in no way believe that.
He HAS NOT shown us his BC. He has shown us a copy of his Certification of Live Birth (COLB) which is a secondary document that is meant to confirm that a BC exists. His actual BC is currently hidden from public view. Do you understand this or are you going to continue to perpetuate the lie that he has shown his BC?
No. You're too much of a 'DUMBASS' to realize that I was comparing you to the conspiracy theorist that claimed Bush was responsible to 9/11. A comparison, none the less. No. Instead, I think I'll just pull a 'Glenn Beck' on you. Bahhhahhaah Bahhhahhaa Bahhhaah. You poor sob! You haven't seen Obama's BC. Bahhhahha Bahhahhaaa! My eye's are so filled with tears that I can not reply any further other than to write...
How am I a dumbass? You think that because I want to see Obama's BC that I must also believe that Bush was responsible for 9/11 and I explained how that makes no sense. So who's the dumbass here? If you think your statement makes any sense then please explain how.
So now you're agreeing with me that we haven't seen his BC. Good, you're making progress. You obviously think we shouldn't see it. Why is asking to see a BC too much to ask?
You and all you f'd up birthers can complain all you want but nothing is going to happen. BO is going to be in the Whitehouse for at least 4 years. Maybe 8 with all of your f'ining complaints. GIVE IT UP! You are not worthy of the Republican Party if that is where you are coming from because you have given us a bad name.
You're a DUMBASS because you NEED to see his BC. I'm not making progress here. You were obviously kicked in the head by a butterfly when you were a kid. Contact your representative with a letter explaining your feelings. Your videos have no effect here....
Have we seen his BC or have we not? I've said that we have not, and you said earlier that we have. You seem to have agreed with me on this point now but how about you clarify this. Have we seen his BC or have we not?
In a low voice... "I want you to forget everything you've heard...".
Every state in the US says that the COLB is sufficient BECAUSE it still has to be verified. JEEZ! Get over it ShowMetheBC because I can guarantee you that BO is going to be in office until 2012 at least. You keep up with this BS and pretty much any thing we throw at him in 2012 is going to bounce off. Do you honestly want him in for another 4 years? And, yes, I still believe he was elected president and will be.
Think of this reply as the same as your voice in the video. NO. I have not seen his BC. However, I am confident in my representatives in Texas that have said he is the President and that they believe he is the President. So, it really doesn't matter if I've seen his BC because I trust in my elected reps. As I wrote before. If you don't, write your reps and complain since they already voted for the resolution that Obama was born in Hawaii with a 368 to 0 vote.
Ok, so you were wrong when you said that we have seen his BC and you were wrong when you ridiculed for saying that we have not. Like I said earlier, we are now making progress.
You say that even though you haven't seen his BC, you are confident that your reps in congress are telling you the truth when they say that he was born in Hawaii.
Do you really think that's good enough, especially when it's the POTUS we're talking about and when he could show us his BC at any time?
No. We're not making any progress because we're going round and round. I give up. YOU need to see is BC. Not going to happen and I would never let you see my BC either. You and Orly Taitz can live out your blissful lives' in the eternity of never seeing BO's BC. Especially since none of us have ever seen any prior president's BC. And may I remind you... McCain's BC didn't exactly smell of roses.
I don't want to see your BC, you're not someone who is running for president who didn't have a parent who could legally confer citizenship.
McCain released his BC and his COLB AND congress held hearings to determine his natural born status.
Now that you're comparing Obama to McCain. Don't you think we should go through the same process they did with McCain, or at least have Obama show us his BC as well?
They went through the same process as McCain. Ask McCain if you don't believe me. BO has shown his BC. I don't need to see it. Travel to his election headquarters to see it if you don't believe it. I don't believe it is a requirement that he sent it to every freak'n person that doubts his legitimacy.
He absolutely did not go through the same process as McCain. McCain showed his BC, it's on record, I can show it to you by doing a Google search, Obama's is not, but his COLB is. They held hearings about McCain, but not about Obama. If you think Obama went through the same process then why don't you give me the links to where I can see record of hearings about Obama's eligibility and a copy of his BC (not his COLB).
You said a few minutes ago that you have no seen his BC. I have not either, but it hasn't been released to the public. McCain's has. So who has seen Obama's BC besides some officials in Hawaii?
All prior presidents, who needed to be natural born, had at least one parent who could confer citizenship so it didn't matter where they were born, they were still natural born. So seeing their BC's is irrelevant, though I think we should just to have on record.
So, it had to happen someday. Didn't it? That one parent could not confer. Whoa! Hold the reins. Lets all just go carry him out of the White House this very minute! NOT!
But, we have seen his BC. I have not held it in my hands but it exists. I'm not going to argue with you any more. You must be Orly Taitz with an altered voice. And we all know there's no arguing with Orly.
Alright. I will continue this argument. There's nothing like a little bit of debate to keep things alive. So. Let me ask you this. Did you see McCain's BC? Not the COLB but the long form. Frankly, I'd have to wonder what people would think of mine. I have some kind of photocopy from Kansas. Small, black. no foot print. Just the names of my dad and mom.
I can remember when my ex-wife and I went to Jamaica and seeing her BC. It was a white piece of paper kind of like Obama's. Not as fancy but quite similar.
I've seen the Google one. Each state is different as I noted in mine. In fact, I doubt i could even copy mine. However, McCain's is much more complete than my ex-wife's was from Texas. Obama's is much more complete than her's. So why were we able to travel to Jamaica with my passport and her somewhat incomplete birth certificate???? It just boggle's my mind.
You're claiming to have seen Obama's BC. No you haven't, you have seen his COLB, which is a secondary document meant to confirm that a BC exists. So you have not seen his BC, have you?
I am just stating that the COLB that Obama provided is enough for me to believe he was born in Hawaii. If I want to go further, than I will go to Hawaii and look at his long form which would not be available to you nor I. And that is understandable. Too many people out there wanting to steal identities these days. No, I have to just trust in my elected officials to do that for me. I am satisfied. You're not. Let's leave it at that. I'll go harrass another birther...
And I'll go ahead and reply to this one. Stealing identifies IS NOT an excuse. It is simply a fact. That is why it is so much more difficult for people that want to re-establish themselves with a new identity today. It isn't easy to get at anyone's BC, even if they've been dead for 30 years. It is to prevent those that would like to do a 'switcherooo' and start living their live's with a different name. It has nothing to do with hidiing a candidate's past...
You think that someone is going to walk around with the name Barack Hussein Obama and apply for a credit card and get one? You're even dumber than I thought (and I thought you were pretty damn stupid).
By the way... I am conceding. You have won this debate simply because I choose to no longer debate it. But, you have won nothing. Obama will be President until 2012 and, maybe with your help, until 2016. I'll leave it at that....
I have won this debate because you have been proven wrong on EVERY SINGLE ONE of your points. We didn't even get past round one. It took you this long to admit that we haven't seen his BC. You're an ignorant jackass. Just shut up next time and save yourself the embarrassment.
OH! and to add. He has show us his COLB. That is sufficient enough proof that he was born in the State of Hawaii. Hell, they even passed a resolution under HB 569? that Hawaii was his BP. Vote 368 - 0? If you have complaints, quit posting ridiculous videos with a deepened voice here on U Tube and write you rep. Obama is THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA!
A COLB is not sufficient proof that he was born in Hawaii. In fact, the US State Dept says on it's website that a COLB "may not be acceptable for passport purposes". If it's not acceptable for passport purposes then it surely isn't acceptable for POTUS.
There's no good reason that we should not be allowed to see the best evidence of his birth considering his unique situation - having no parent who could confer citizenship. We must see his BC.
The FBI isn't anyone? You run for president or join the armed forces to where you will be given knowledge that is considered top secret... I guarantee the FBI crawls up you a*s with a fine tooth comb. There is nothing you're going to hide from them. As far as you, you don't need to see his BC personally just as I would not show you mind.
It isn't uncommon for US Citizens to be born to military parents in foreign countries, but they are still US Citizens. If Barack Obama was not born in the United States and his parents were not in the United States armed forces, which we know they weren't, he is not a natural born citizen of the United States. I can get a certificate of live birth from Hawaii, but my birth certificate I can only get from Kansas where I was born. And it has my foot print, the doctor's signature, and other info
Reagan and Bush both had parents who were US citizens therefore it didn't matter where they were born, they'd still be eligible, so seeing their BC's is pointless.
Why would I put my BC on the net? I'm not running for president.
I kinda doubt anyone is gonna steal Obama's identity with his BC. McCain showed his.
See how stupid you are? You were wrong on everything and yet you thought you were so smart.
Could you please show me the birth certificates for Reagan and Bush's parents? Give me proof that they were natural born citizens. You don't have it do you?
Reagan and Bush's parents didn't have to be natural born citizens, dumbass.
and...
Your analogy doesn't fit because I'm not asking to see Obama's mother's BC, I'm asking to see Obama's BC.
To satisfy the line of reasoning of your analogy, you would then have to have a birth certificate of Reagan and Bush's grandparents, then great-grandparents and on and on because you'd have to prove that each of them were citizens so that they had the ability to confer citizenship.
Nope. McCain was born in Panama on a US Base to American Citizen Parents. He is a Citizen. No question about it. Obama needs to come clean. If he doesn't, the question will remain.
Part III By asking an awkward ? you have now challenged the zealously held faith of the Obama-cult True Believers.
Such people feel the psychological need to know that they "fit in" and conform to officially sanctioned and approved behaviour that trumps truth seeking by people like yourself.
You are seen as a threat to their sad mind-numbed conformity, hence the OTT antagonism you induce in them.
They are echo chambers of "correct" opinion so you will never receive a rational response.
The Obama Amen Corner groupies remind me of the Shakespeare quote:
Hamlet asks the Queen, his mother, "Madam, how like you this play?" and she replies, referring to the queen in the play (who has professed her "great love" for her husband the king),
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
or you can go with "me thinkest thou protesteth too much"
if you go with the popular mis-Quote. Either way you can smell the panic and desperation of clinging to the party line:what thinkest thou?
The Mass Media want someone who is beholden to them who, by using his race, will contrive to drive underground and later make illegal all dissent to their agenda.
In the 1st instalment the tactic is that of 1st amendment freedom crushing Federal hate-speech laws (but whose net will be cast wider and wider by a combined assault of State apparatchiks and Mass Media Hack(ess)s) and any opposition will be met by an accusation of sooner or later of thought-crime racism
Well your calm presentation is just about asking a ? which should be easily answered but hasnt been.
Although logically and rationally I cannot see how BO was born anywhere else but Hawaii but just by asking such a ? you will be reviled and hated, a la Lou Dobbs because you have dared to break the taboo. The very reason why the mass media went AWOL on asking any awkward ?s about BO was because they think he is the best vehicle to use to push through their PC agenda with the least resistance.
I have a long version of my birth certificate but it was not certified, so I could not use it to get my passport or gun carry license. I sent away for a certified copy of my birth certificate from the state of Hawaii and what they sent me is what you show (Certification of Live Birth). It isn't the long form but the Certification of Live Birth they sent me was apparently proof enough for me to obtain my U.S. passport and my gun carry permit.
Well good for you. There's no question that a COLB works in most cases but we're talking about someone running for President of the United States AND we know that Hawaii has his "original birth certificate" (their words) so let's see it. It's the best evidence of his birth and would put the matter to rest, so why not?
I had to have a BC for damn Dizzy Dean Baseball............what the hell...........give us a copy and have it examined and then pack your shit and get out of the white house......................
Obama could release his birth certificate, then anyone could examine it at the hospital. There is also the problem with the wording that Dr. Fukino used. He stated that he had seen the original certificate, and that Hawaii has possession of that certificate, but did not say it was a Hawaiian certificate. Hawaii has foreign certificates and holds them when a citizen is foreign born. The real question is whether Obama has a Hawaiian certificate but that remains unconfirmed.
when you go to that page, you will understand how pointless to keep asking an individual to get something he can't, this is on Hawaii's own website, even if he did get it, its irrelevant, bc Hawaii has Certification of Live Birth as their document for birth, end of story!!
"When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth." from hawaii, dot, gov /dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
"The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a persons birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. "
Let me try it this way. You're saying that Obama cannot obtain a copy of his original birth certificate because of this law, and that he can only get a copy of his COLB, is that correct?
If that is what you believe. Would you then agree that if he could obtain a copy of his original birth certificate, that he should do so?
How can requesting to see the birth certificate of someone be "made up bullshit"? What am I making up? Your statement is based on your own ignorance and is completely nonsensical.
Your statement about the moon landing is a pathetic attempt to lump me in with conspiracy theories as if someone who thinks that Obama should show his BC would also believe that we didn't land on the moon.
It's bullshit because you're ignoring the fact that he has produced a completely legitimate document that proves he was born in this country. Maybe he should do even more for nuts like you, but he has done everything that sane and reasonable people required. No "go sell crazy somewhere else."
The US State Dept says this on it's website: "Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes."
So I guess if the State Dept. told Obama that his COLB wasn't good enough to get a passport you would call them crazy as well for doubting him, right?
"A birth certificate is a vital record that documents the birth of a child. In the United States, the term "birth certificate" can refer to either the original document or to a certification thereof."
Wikipedia is not a source but usavital is close enough. A COLB is known as an 'abstract', a 'computer generated printout', and a 'short-form birth certificate'. So you could say that a COLB is a version of a birth certificate but it is clearly not THE birth certificate. THE birth certificate is the long form version, AKA the certificate of live birth.
So, back to my question. A BC, specifically long form BC, or original BC, or THE BC, is a vital record, is it not?
I completely agree with your paragraph from "Wiki.... live birth". The Certificate of Live Birth short form is the certified copy of the vital record of a Hawaii Birth take from the long from Birth Certificate. They provide COLB because the information contained in that is enough to satisfy what any government or entity need which is where somebody is born, nobody needs to know doctors, hospitals, time, etc for any official purpose. For my Real Estate license they found out I was born in Merced
The COLB is NOT a certified copy of the original birth certificate. Obama has shown us a certified copy of his COLB. Are you saying that his COLB is a certified copy of his original long form BC?
A COLB is NOT enough to satisfy ANY government entity, most but not ANY. How many times do I have to quote the state department to you? Do you disagree that the state dept says that a COLB "may not be acceptable"?
Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.
The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individuals birth.
The only thing that statute says "certified copy" not birth certificate. Obama would have a direct and tangible interest in getting certified copy of his birth record, which is the COLB. As a Loan Officer I can have direct acces to a complete mortgage tri-merge credit report, that people themselves can't get.
In fact, go here: Go here: capitol.hawaii[dot]gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm
I had to replace the dots with [dot] to post the link. Notice that it's talking about "vital statistics records", ie BC's, COLBs
It says that to receive a certified copy of these records the person must have a direct and tangible interest in the record. It then states the "registrant" or owner of the document as meeting the description of having a "direct and tangible interest.
I have read that complete page and I know what is a certified copy. What you dont know is when that statue is referring to certified copy, it doesn't say copies, and its obvious the copy they do give to their people is COLB. WHERE DOES IT SAY BIRTH CERTIFICATE
OMG, you've gotta be the dumbest defend-Obama-at-all-costs person I've ever argued with.
Where does it say BC? The entire law is about vital records such as BIRTH CERTIFICATES! It's referring to a certified copy of a BC or a COLB or a death certificate?
It doesn't matter if their standard practice is to give out a COLB. This is about certified copies of vital records in general, which includes BC's because that's what a BC is, a vital record. Got it?
I'm a Libertarian, and when you can show me from a Law or Statute that a Hawaiian can get a BC from the state along with a COLB, which makes no sense 2 forms of proof for the same thing. If a person can get a BC, why would the state give a COLB too? You keep saying the entire law is about vital records, I dont disagree, but you say "such as birth certificates", thats your quote not the statute quote. you said it includes BC, where does Hawaii say it?
"What is a Birth Certificate? It is documentary proof of a legal birth in the United States and the commonwealth states*** of the US. Our Birth Certificates are state issued, and are appropriate for legal matters. Some states have raised seals, some have stamped seals. We provide what the state has to offer. Additionally, some states have both certified and non certified copies".
Obama is the registrant of his own BC therefore he has a "direct and tangible interest" and can therefore receive a certified copy of his BC at any time. Do you understand this????
This is where your most wrong, and its critical to your side, if you can't even prove that he can get a BC any time he wants, then your argument is over!! Which Law clearly states that Obama can get a BIRTH CERTIFICATE any time he wants????
You are out of your mind or just thinking like a liberal, same thing. The law that states this is the freakin' law I've stated to you over and over again: Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18. Just scroll down and read it. Would Obama have a direct and tangible interest in his own BC? Of course. Do you disagree with that?
pal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct. (g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof,
§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics reco.........artment of health. (b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
The point is, it doesn't state anything about a Birth Certificate can be available to Obama or to the public, only a certified copy of health records detailing proof of a Birth, which is done with a COLB.
A certified copy can be a copy of a COLB or a copy of a BC. What's so hard to understand about that? The quote is about vital records. A COLB and a BC are both vital records and a certified copy of either can be obtained in the manner they describe. I can't believe you're still trying to prove that Obama, the POTUS, does not have the ability to obtain a copy of his own BC.
Can you show anywhere in Hawaii laws or regulations that any Hawaiian can get access to a BC, because so far you only say so. If a COLB is a certified copy of a birth, why is that not enough?
Huh? I said that Obama could get his BC at any time. That's obvious AND I backed it up with a quote from Hawaiian law. Why are you acting like I never backed it up? Do we have to go over this again? Here it is: Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18 states that the Health Dept "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."
OMG, why you keep saying Obama can get his BC anytime, Hawaian Law and that Statutes only states "certified copy of any such record", nothing about BC. When you get something that says "hawaiians have access to copies of original long form birth certificate" then you would have a point!!!
B) Poor medical procedures compared to North America
C) Barack Sr's family did NOT approve of the relationship between Barack and Ann
D) Barack already had one wife in Kenya with one child and one child on the way. He told Ann he was divorced, but she later discovered he lied (per Barack jr's autobiography). Kenya would be the last place Barack would want to go.
She would want to have a baby where is A.more dangerous medically,B. She doesn't know the area, C. Expensive especially for 18 y/o college student, D. Place even Sr. didn't want to go because, 1. finish studies then go to Harvard after Hawaii, 2. His first wife is there, and he could be caught. E. Ann go see a family that dont like her? Please reference or source that statement that contradicts all of this please.
How about you reference a source that contradicts what I said.
All of your reasons mean nothing. You're assuming his mother made rational decisions, she often clearly did not, namely moving to Seattle with her newborn son and leaving her husband behind.
if she moved to Seattle, why would she be in Kenya at anytime before that? She started school in WA right after his birth. She left her husband, because she might of found out of his first wife, kids, his controlling behavior. She went to school in an area she had a happy life in HS. Is it really rational for anybody to believe she was that irrational?
I don't understand the point of your first question. So she might've gone to Kenya over the summer of '61 and then shortly after arriving back in Hawaii she then goes to Seattle to start classes. It's irrational for an 18 year old woman with a newborn to leave her husband AND her parent's to attend college in a city far away from all of them. Yeah, I'd call that irrational.
There's no way you can prove anything here. It doesn't change the fact that we need to see the BC.
The only time I see the term "certified copy" is not in your quote, but in your comment after the quote. So please explain what in the world you're talking about.
there i sno doubt...he is seeking power and communism for us americans...i say no way man...amiricorps greenpeace united steel workers acorn and many other oginizations headed up by apollo are trying to turn our nation into a communist state...think im full of malarkey study up on it....you will find i am correct
beeter check ou the apollo alliance...its a mess of communists who wrote the 700 bill con man job..almost all of its board members are in connected to obama and are his foot soldiers....they are pushing our nation into straight up communism through intimidation and theft...the stimulous plan is not being spent because they are goin g to us it in 2010 to stay in power....green-social justice-and unions...pulled together to spread communism...please check it out..obama is a communist dictator
If he doesn't have one then he obviously cannot prove where he was born and is therefore not eligible to be POTUS. If he has one, as the state of Hawaii claims that he does, then he would have no problem getting it. Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18 states that the Health Dept "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."
Maybe he can't prove from a BC, but the other ways from the Health Dept proves he has one, the newspaper clippings that prove he was born there, and legally a COLB proves his birth too. But if they are referring to a "certified copy" as the COLB, whats left to argue? How would any of us know how he is able to get a BC instead of a COLB?
I've already explained this: you cannot have a COLB if a BC doesn't exist, otherwise the COLB is invalid or fraudulent because a COLB is meant to confirm that a BC exists. If a valid COLB exists, so does a BC.
The newspaper clippings are evidence, not proof, because that info came from the Health Dept, not the hospital. So when a BC is given out, the Health Dept. would notify the newspapers. The "original birth certificate" that the Health Dept spoke of cannot possibly be the COLB.
If we both agree that COLB confirms a BC exists and on file with Health Dept and they have confirmed its existence, why does more people seeing it make it better or more valid in any way? If the Health Deparments knows he was born in Hawaii, why is there a need for us to see something that we both agree exists.
A BC exists but we don't know if it has independent verification of his birth. Obama has already said that Kapi'olani Medical Center was the place of his birth. If he releases the BC and it has Kapi'olani listed along with the attending physician and his/her signature then we will have proof of his birth in Hawaii. If it does not have Kapi'olani listed, then we will know that he lied and is probably a fraud. We should not be asked to accept less than the best evidence of his birth.
Isnt' the point if he was born in a US state or not, why does it matter which hospital? What is the independent verification your looking for? BTW, the best evidence of any birth is a video of the doctor delivering a baby with a sworn government offical next to him. We have to deal with reality, which is COLB is the best evidence that is available.
A COLB is NOT the best evidence available and you know that. A BC is the original document. It is the document that contains all of the important details that we have never seen.
It matters which hospital because the name of the hospital is a verifiable detail. Obama says he was born at Kapi'olani. If he releases the BC and it shows that, then we will know that he was born in Hawaii. If he releases the BC and it doesn't show a hospital, then we will know that he is a fraud.
The COLB is the best AVAILABLE to us as the general public, and even to Mr. Obama himself, thats the difference we have is that you believe he has access and needs will to show it. I believe he doesn't have access therefore can't show it.
As an agent i work with CA DMV, the color of somebody eyes is on the MVR, and is a verifiable detail, but its not applicable to their driving record. Most important for me is if they have a license not extraneous useless information, same principle here.
You're just wrong on that. I quoted the Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18. Go take a look at it again. Clearly, Obama can get a copy of his BC if he wanted it. You're delusional to believe that he cannot.
Your DMV analogy is in no way applicable to what we're talking about. The name of the hospital and the name of the doctor and his/her signature could never be defined as "extraneous useless information". They are the two main items that can independently verify his birthplace.
The statute states"338-18. The Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to insure their proper use, and to insure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system,it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part, or by
I think Obama's strategy people are waiting for the "birther" movement to gain more steam and become a larger part of the Republican platform. Once it's developed to a larger part of their strategy, he'll release it and tell them to STFU, effectively deflating their momentum much more so than if the issue was resolved right now. Waiting to release it is win/win, because the issue either goes away, or will politically damage the Republican side.
Asking to see his BC is about upholding the constitution. If he releases his BC and proves that he was born in Hawaii or if it proves he wasn't, we'll be right for demanding that he does it because it is the only conclusive proof. I'd say it's a win/win for us. The issue will never go away until he shows his BC.
Im not arguing. But I think it will be a while before anything is released, and I think that the political maneuvering I mentioned is the reason why. When I said win/win, I meant from the perspective of a political strategy, not in general.
Both side can always assert that they have supporting documentation on their side, the differences in how official those are is the difference. one side is governors, health dept, newspapers, the other side is an old relative, one African news agency. I know I rather trust elected US goverment officials than any African anytime!
This isn't about choosing which side to believe. I didn't bring up that small bit of evidence to prove to you that he was born in Kenya. This is about demanding to see the original BC that is on file in Hawaii and can conclusively prove that he was born there. I don't trust anyone on this issue, and neither should you. This is the office of the POTUS...
...We need incontrovertible proof and that can only be found in the original BC. Sure, the COLB is evidence but it's not even good enough for getting a passport sometimes. We need conclusive evidence. Congress had hearings to determine McCain's eligiblity and McCain even displayed to the world his own BC and yet we can't even see Obama's. It's not right.
The bottom line is that he is either a Natural Born American Citizen or he is an illegal alien, on one side is newspaper announcents, a COLB, statements from the Hawaii Health Dept that has verfied a CB is on file, and on the other side is people's doubt with no supporting evidence that he wasn't born in Hawaii, and if he wasn't, he would have had to 1. take chances and lie in all he was doing in life from school, work, and POTUS, and 2. He needs to be deported
His paternal grandmother said that she was at his birth (in Kenya) and then retracted it after her family members told her that Obama was born in Hawaii. I've heard the audio recording.
In Africa, specifically Kenya, it is common knowledge that Obama was born there. A legitimate online newspaper from the country next door to Kenya said that Obama was returning to the continent of his birth when he came there for a visit a couple weeks ago...
...and I've personally spoken with a life long Kenyan who told me that Obama was born at his grandmother's home in Kenya and talked about how the real estate value for the houses nearby had gone up so much because of it. He didn't know me and I didn't know him but that's just what he told me. None of this proves that he was born in Kenya, but I say this just to prove that your statement about there being no supporting evidence is just not true...
Other than that statement about there being no supporting evidence that he wasn't born in Hawaii, I agree with your entire comment. This is why we must see a copy of his original BC. He can do it at any time and there's no excuse for not doing so.
To me its really silly to choose an older relative that has vested interest for him being born in Kenya against the Republican Governor of Hawaii Linda Lingle who asserts her comments from her states documentation that is the electronic form of BC on file.
I explained why I brought the Kenya stuff up, so don't attempt to make it look like I'm comparing evidence, because I'm not. You said there was "no supporting evidence" that he was born in Kenya and you're wrong on that. Obviously there's a lot more credible evidence that shows he was born in Hawaii but a preponderance of evidence is not what matters. What matters is proof and that's not going to be found in statements from officials, it's found in the original BC. We need to see the BC.
To me, some women saying he was born somewhere isn't evidence at all. His parents were born in Hawaii just a few months before Obama was born, do you really think they would fly overseas with a women that pregnant then to be back in US 3 weeks later, especially when they are broke, when she was seen by Susan Blake on Mercer Island?
Testimony is defined as evidence. And it's not just "some woman", it's his freakin' Kenyan grandmother who says she was at his birth. Do I really think they flew to Kenya? I don't know, it's certainly possible. It was the summer between classes and she hadn't visited his family yet so yes, it's VERY possible.
What are you trying to prove with your comment about Susan Blake? His mother went to Seattle a few weeks after he was born and started classes, so what's your point?
"In the law, testimony is a form of evidence that is obtained from a witness who makes a solemn statement or declaration of fact. Testimony may be oral or written, and it is USUALLY MADE BY OATH OR ARRIMATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY". from Wikipedia
Yeah, in law. This isn't a court of law. Dictionary . com says, "Evidence in support of a fact or assertion" and that's exactly what his grandmother's statement was.
Why did Obama spend millions of dollars on high priced lawyers to prevent anyone from forcing Hawaiian Officials to reveal the truth about Obama's Birth Certificate, which is that he does NOT have one there, never has. This document is just another forged document like the last one. Neither are legal, valid, certified, stamped, or notarized. Most of all they are NOT Birth Certificates. They are forged Certificates of Live Birth, which is an ultra easy thing to do!
MOTORCAP26 10 months ago
this is a crock of shit, it's a known fact that his name was barry and he changed it to barrack. why doesn't this certificate show that?
1ucky8 1 year ago
@1ucky8
"its a known fact"
ROFLMFAO!
He was born Barack Hussein Obama II. "Barry" is simply a nick name like "AL" is a nick name for Alan. How stupid are you?
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Umm no.. Im sure that by now you have discovered that you are wrong.. Barry is not just a nick name. His official name was Barry Sortora. Im sure that you feel stupid now that you know the truth. I hope that you take this opportunity to correct your error. Also you should look up Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178
. It shows that a person can get aHawaiian COLB even if you were born in toledo or chicago. All that was required was a legal residency in Hawaii.
intrepidorator 10 months ago
@intrepidorator
Barry is simply a nickname for Barack like Tommy is for Thomas or Larry is for Lawrence. Learn how to spell. Obama's step fathers name was Soetoro.
The interesting thing about HRS §338-18, that most idiot birthers don't seem to realize is that, it was not signed into law until 1982. I would love to hear you explain exactly how that statute.affected Obama's birth 21 years before it became law. What was that you were mumbling about feeling stupid?
LMFAO
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I think that you're wrong on the "Barry" thing.. His name was legally Barry. I was sure that you would take the opportunity to correct your error. I guess your too stupid..
intrepidorator 10 months ago
@intrepidorator
Obama's legal name has always been Barack Hussein Obama II.
Barry is simply a nickname for Barack. Its ridiculously asinine to insist otherwise.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is the biggest fraud to be perpetrated by the United States government. Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen and not eligible to be president of USA. The ramifications of the fraud are tremendous . I hope everyone involved with this cover up is brought to justice. I know this will happen in the future. My prediction is prison time for the many facilitators of this crime against the USA. American citizens will demand accountability for the facilitators of this crime.
fuzzyroger 1 year ago
Why did Obama apply for a student visa?
zookeeper220 1 year ago
im gessing gw bush addminastraion let this oboma spy into our system? the cIA droped the ball?
thomasuras 1 year ago
im gessing gw bush addminastraion let this oboma spy into our system? the cIA droped the ball?
thomasuras 1 year ago
If he comes up wiyh it it will still not make him a natrualborn citizen.
darrellmellissa 2 years ago
If im not mastakin Obama attended Harvard on a International studendt's scholarship
soeasypls 2 years ago 2
@soeasypls Where did you hear that?
CalifSunshine2008 2 years ago
@soeasypls I bet you are right. He either is from kenya or he lied his way through school.
PatriotWatchUSA 1 year ago
@soeasypls That's what I read. He came into the US on a British passport and had a student visa.
zookeeper220 1 year ago
Even if he comes up with a real birthcertificute, that would only make him a citizen, not a naturalborn citizen
darrellmellissa 2 years ago
Is Obama applying for Hawaiian Homes?
ryansistah74 2 years ago
Yes, I believe that Barry (Obama) was born in Indonesia and not in the U.S. I also believe that Santa Clause delivers billions of gifts to children all over the world overnight!! Intellectuals and rational thinking people are laughing hysterically at me right now.
wellyuneednt 2 years ago
Seems U can't even get your "satire" right. Nobody has ever said he was born in Indonesia.
I can't see how BO was born anywhere but Hawaii but what should concern U is the supreme arrogance and contempt towards the public that he & his handlers display. When McCain made public his actual BC the BO crowd eventually issued an electronic COLB in a display of curt "how dare U even ask but we give U this so shut up and go away"
& Just like they refused 2 openup anyof BO history So much 4 Hope&Change
roger1947 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
roger1947 2 years ago
"If I want to go further, than I will go to Hawaii and look at his long form which would not be available to you nor I"
This statement does not make sense.
I can't conceive (forgive the pun) why BO's mother would want to visit Kenya whilst heavily pregnant but the repeated refusal to provide the actual BO is withholding relevant information for him to stand for Pres in the 1st place so on that ground alone he should be legally made to do so. His candidacy should B invalid if he can't or wont.
roger1947 2 years ago
What is so STUPID about all of these requests to see the actual birth certificate is that someone of authority has most certainly seen the BC. The FBI does an extensive background check prior to anyone running for president since the president is going to be privy to highly sensitive information in addition to daily briefings from the CIA and other agencies. So, there's no need for anyone to see his BC other than the people that needed to verify his eligibility to run prior to his candidacy.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Ok, so "someone in authority" has seen his BC. So that's good enough for you, huh?
Also, you're assuming the FBI has done an "extensive background check" that you also assume included a check of his BC and citizenship status. Therefore with all of these assumptions and people in authority who have supposedly verified all of this for us, we should just accept it, right?
Or...
he can just show us his damn birth certificate!!
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
He has shown us the BC. It is apparent that nothing he shows is ever going to be good enough for you so what's the point of going any further. And I guarantee the FBI does an extensive background check that includes his eligibility to run for president. He wouldn't have even been allowed to run had he not been a natural born citizen. Get over it. You're just like all the nutcases that claimed Bush was responsible for 9/11.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Why would you assume that I believe Bush was responsible for 9/11. That has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about and I in no way believe that.
He HAS NOT shown us his BC. He has shown us a copy of his Certification of Live Birth (COLB) which is a secondary document that is meant to confirm that a BC exists. His actual BC is currently hidden from public view. Do you understand this or are you going to continue to perpetuate the lie that he has shown his BC?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
No. You're too much of a 'DUMBASS' to realize that I was comparing you to the conspiracy theorist that claimed Bush was responsible to 9/11. A comparison, none the less. No. Instead, I think I'll just pull a 'Glenn Beck' on you. Bahhhahhaah Bahhhahhaa Bahhhaah. You poor sob! You haven't seen Obama's BC. Bahhhahha Bahhahhaaa! My eye's are so filled with tears that I can not reply any further other than to write...
anotherparadox 2 years ago
How am I a dumbass? You think that because I want to see Obama's BC that I must also believe that Bush was responsible for 9/11 and I explained how that makes no sense. So who's the dumbass here? If you think your statement makes any sense then please explain how.
So now you're agreeing with me that we haven't seen his BC. Good, you're making progress. You obviously think we shouldn't see it. Why is asking to see a BC too much to ask?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
You and all you f'd up birthers can complain all you want but nothing is going to happen. BO is going to be in the Whitehouse for at least 4 years. Maybe 8 with all of your f'ining complaints. GIVE IT UP! You are not worthy of the Republican Party if that is where you are coming from because you have given us a bad name.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
You're a DUMBASS because you NEED to see his BC. I'm not making progress here. You were obviously kicked in the head by a butterfly when you were a kid. Contact your representative with a letter explaining your feelings. Your videos have no effect here....
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Have we seen his BC or have we not? I've said that we have not, and you said earlier that we have. You seem to have agreed with me on this point now but how about you clarify this. Have we seen his BC or have we not?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
In a low voice... "I want you to forget everything you've heard...".
Every state in the US says that the COLB is sufficient BECAUSE it still has to be verified. JEEZ! Get over it ShowMetheBC because I can guarantee you that BO is going to be in office until 2012 at least. You keep up with this BS and pretty much any thing we throw at him in 2012 is going to bounce off. Do you honestly want him in for another 4 years? And, yes, I still believe he was elected president and will be.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Have we seen his BC, or have we not? It appears that you agree with me but I want you to confirm this.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Think of this reply as the same as your voice in the video. NO. I have not seen his BC. However, I am confident in my representatives in Texas that have said he is the President and that they believe he is the President. So, it really doesn't matter if I've seen his BC because I trust in my elected reps. As I wrote before. If you don't, write your reps and complain since they already voted for the resolution that Obama was born in Hawaii with a 368 to 0 vote.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Ok, so you were wrong when you said that we have seen his BC and you were wrong when you ridiculed for saying that we have not. Like I said earlier, we are now making progress.
You say that even though you haven't seen his BC, you are confident that your reps in congress are telling you the truth when they say that he was born in Hawaii.
Do you really think that's good enough, especially when it's the POTUS we're talking about and when he could show us his BC at any time?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
No. We're not making any progress because we're going round and round. I give up. YOU need to see is BC. Not going to happen and I would never let you see my BC either. You and Orly Taitz can live out your blissful lives' in the eternity of never seeing BO's BC. Especially since none of us have ever seen any prior president's BC. And may I remind you... McCain's BC didn't exactly smell of roses.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
By the way... You don't have a Russian accent. Are you Orly's bro'?
anotherparadox 2 years ago
I don't want to see your BC, you're not someone who is running for president who didn't have a parent who could legally confer citizenship.
McCain released his BC and his COLB AND congress held hearings to determine his natural born status.
Now that you're comparing Obama to McCain. Don't you think we should go through the same process they did with McCain, or at least have Obama show us his BC as well?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
They went through the same process as McCain. Ask McCain if you don't believe me. BO has shown his BC. I don't need to see it. Travel to his election headquarters to see it if you don't believe it. I don't believe it is a requirement that he sent it to every freak'n person that doubts his legitimacy.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
He absolutely did not go through the same process as McCain. McCain showed his BC, it's on record, I can show it to you by doing a Google search, Obama's is not, but his COLB is. They held hearings about McCain, but not about Obama. If you think Obama went through the same process then why don't you give me the links to where I can see record of hearings about Obama's eligibility and a copy of his BC (not his COLB).
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
You said a few minutes ago that you have no seen his BC. I have not either, but it hasn't been released to the public. McCain's has. So who has seen Obama's BC besides some officials in Hawaii?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
All prior presidents, who needed to be natural born, had at least one parent who could confer citizenship so it didn't matter where they were born, they were still natural born. So seeing their BC's is irrelevant, though I think we should just to have on record.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
So, it had to happen someday. Didn't it? That one parent could not confer. Whoa! Hold the reins. Lets all just go carry him out of the White House this very minute! NOT!
anotherparadox 2 years ago
I'm glad you've now learned something and now know that Obama's situation is a very unique one and that is why we must see his BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
But, we have seen his BC. I have not held it in my hands but it exists. I'm not going to argue with you any more. You must be Orly Taitz with an altered voice. And we all know there's no arguing with Orly.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Ok, so now you're saying that we have seen his BC again even though you said just a few minutes ago that we have not. Remember this?
You: "NO. I have not seen his BC."
So have we or have we not?
I wouldn't want to continue this either if I were losing the argument so badly.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Alright. I will continue this argument. There's nothing like a little bit of debate to keep things alive. So. Let me ask you this. Did you see McCain's BC? Not the COLB but the long form. Frankly, I'd have to wonder what people would think of mine. I have some kind of photocopy from Kansas. Small, black. no foot print. Just the names of my dad and mom.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
I can remember when my ex-wife and I went to Jamaica and seeing her BC. It was a white piece of paper kind of like Obama's. Not as fancy but quite similar.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Yes, I have. It's easily obtainable if you just Google it. But we have not seen Obama's, have we?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I've seen the Google one. Each state is different as I noted in mine. In fact, I doubt i could even copy mine. However, McCain's is much more complete than my ex-wife's was from Texas. Obama's is much more complete than her's. So why were we able to travel to Jamaica with my passport and her somewhat incomplete birth certificate???? It just boggle's my mind.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
You're claiming to have seen Obama's BC. No you haven't, you have seen his COLB, which is a secondary document meant to confirm that a BC exists. So you have not seen his BC, have you?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I am just stating that the COLB that Obama provided is enough for me to believe he was born in Hawaii. If I want to go further, than I will go to Hawaii and look at his long form which would not be available to you nor I. And that is understandable. Too many people out there wanting to steal identities these days. No, I have to just trust in my elected officials to do that for me. I am satisfied. You're not. Let's leave it at that. I'll go harrass another birther...
anotherparadox 2 years ago
So you have not seen his BC, have you?
By the way, that stealing identities thing is such a pathetic excuse. McCain has shown his BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
And I'll go ahead and reply to this one. Stealing identifies IS NOT an excuse. It is simply a fact. That is why it is so much more difficult for people that want to re-establish themselves with a new identity today. It isn't easy to get at anyone's BC, even if they've been dead for 30 years. It is to prevent those that would like to do a 'switcherooo' and start living their live's with a different name. It has nothing to do with hidiing a candidate's past...
anotherparadox 2 years ago
You think that someone is going to walk around with the name Barack Hussein Obama and apply for a credit card and get one? You're even dumber than I thought (and I thought you were pretty damn stupid).
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
who in there right mind would want to steal his identity , his can't even be proved by him?
ralphdjeeper 2 years ago
By the way... I am conceding. You have won this debate simply because I choose to no longer debate it. But, you have won nothing. Obama will be President until 2012 and, maybe with your help, until 2016. I'll leave it at that....
anotherparadox 2 years ago
I have won this debate because you have been proven wrong on EVERY SINGLE ONE of your points. We didn't even get past round one. It took you this long to admit that we haven't seen his BC. You're an ignorant jackass. Just shut up next time and save yourself the embarrassment.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago 2
@anotherparadox There are states that will require birth certificate verification...won't be happening unless he has the real deal.
CalifSunshine2008 2 years ago 3
@anotherparadox Actually, ShowMe has proven that the government is not answerable to the people. That's a much bigger problem.
JPStrikesBack 1 year ago
OH! and to add. He has show us his COLB. That is sufficient enough proof that he was born in the State of Hawaii. Hell, they even passed a resolution under HB 569? that Hawaii was his BP. Vote 368 - 0? If you have complaints, quit posting ridiculous videos with a deepened voice here on U Tube and write you rep. Obama is THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA!
anotherparadox 2 years ago
A COLB is not sufficient proof that he was born in Hawaii. In fact, the US State Dept says on it's website that a COLB "may not be acceptable for passport purposes". If it's not acceptable for passport purposes then it surely isn't acceptable for POTUS.
There's no good reason that we should not be allowed to see the best evidence of his birth considering his unique situation - having no parent who could confer citizenship. We must see his BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
By the way, there is no official group or person who verifies the eligibility of candidates for president. NO ONE! That's part of the problem!
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The FBI isn't anyone? You run for president or join the armed forces to where you will be given knowledge that is considered top secret... I guarantee the FBI crawls up you a*s with a fine tooth comb. There is nothing you're going to hide from them. As far as you, you don't need to see his BC personally just as I would not show you mind.
anotherparadox 2 years ago
It isn't uncommon for US Citizens to be born to military parents in foreign countries, but they are still US Citizens. If Barack Obama was not born in the United States and his parents were not in the United States armed forces, which we know they weren't, he is not a natural born citizen of the United States. I can get a certificate of live birth from Hawaii, but my birth certificate I can only get from Kansas where I was born. And it has my foot print, the doctor's signature, and other info
reformcongress 2 years ago
I've never seen Reagan's BC, either.
Where was the clamor for Bush's BC?
McCain was born in Panama, no problem with that?
You people are stupid.
Would YOU put your birth certificate on the internet?
If so, you're a moron.
Go ahead, post yours, you idiot.
put a link to it here in the comments so some Russian can take out a credit card in your name, you dumb fool.
Where's the link? Let's see it? How do we know YOU are American?
bouncedrealitycheck 2 years ago
Dumbass.
Reagan and Bush both had parents who were US citizens therefore it didn't matter where they were born, they'd still be eligible, so seeing their BC's is pointless.
Why would I put my BC on the net? I'm not running for president.
I kinda doubt anyone is gonna steal Obama's identity with his BC. McCain showed his.
See how stupid you are? You were wrong on everything and yet you thought you were so smart.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Dumbass,
Could you please show me the birth certificates for Reagan and Bush's parents? Give me proof that they were natural born citizens. You don't have it do you?
anotherparadox 2 years ago
Reagan and Bush's parents didn't have to be natural born citizens, dumbass.
and...
Your analogy doesn't fit because I'm not asking to see Obama's mother's BC, I'm asking to see Obama's BC.
To satisfy the line of reasoning of your analogy, you would then have to have a birth certificate of Reagan and Bush's grandparents, then great-grandparents and on and on because you'd have to prove that each of them were citizens so that they had the ability to confer citizenship.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Nope. McCain was born in Panama on a US Base to American Citizen Parents. He is a Citizen. No question about it. Obama needs to come clean. If he doesn't, the question will remain.
reformcongress 2 years ago
How difficult can it be to show a real birth certificate? 0bama is hiding something.
0bama is not to be trusted.
donottake 2 years ago
Part III By asking an awkward ? you have now challenged the zealously held faith of the Obama-cult True Believers.
Such people feel the psychological need to know that they "fit in" and conform to officially sanctioned and approved behaviour that trumps truth seeking by people like yourself.
You are seen as a threat to their sad mind-numbed conformity, hence the OTT antagonism you induce in them.
They are echo chambers of "correct" opinion so you will never receive a rational response.
roger1947 2 years ago
well said
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The Obama Amen Corner groupies remind me of the Shakespeare quote:
Hamlet asks the Queen, his mother, "Madam, how like you this play?" and she replies, referring to the queen in the play (who has professed her "great love" for her husband the king),
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
or you can go with "me thinkest thou protesteth too much"
if you go with the popular mis-Quote. Either way you can smell the panic and desperation of clinging to the party line:what thinkest thou?
roger1947 2 years ago
The Mass Media want someone who is beholden to them who, by using his race, will contrive to drive underground and later make illegal all dissent to their agenda.
In the 1st instalment the tactic is that of 1st amendment freedom crushing Federal hate-speech laws (but whose net will be cast wider and wider by a combined assault of State apparatchiks and Mass Media Hack(ess)s) and any opposition will be met by an accusation of sooner or later of thought-crime racism
roger1947 2 years ago
Well your calm presentation is just about asking a ? which should be easily answered but hasnt been.
Although logically and rationally I cannot see how BO was born anywhere else but Hawaii but just by asking such a ? you will be reviled and hated, a la Lou Dobbs because you have dared to break the taboo. The very reason why the mass media went AWOL on asking any awkward ?s about BO was because they think he is the best vehicle to use to push through their PC agenda with the least resistance.
roger1947 2 years ago
I have a long version of my birth certificate but it was not certified, so I could not use it to get my passport or gun carry license. I sent away for a certified copy of my birth certificate from the state of Hawaii and what they sent me is what you show (Certification of Live Birth). It isn't the long form but the Certification of Live Birth they sent me was apparently proof enough for me to obtain my U.S. passport and my gun carry permit.
fadedpatch 2 years ago
Well good for you. There's no question that a COLB works in most cases but we're talking about someone running for President of the United States AND we know that Hawaii has his "original birth certificate" (their words) so let's see it. It's the best evidence of his birth and would put the matter to rest, so why not?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
You said that you've got a copy of the original. Obama supposedly does too, but refuses to show it. I don't get your point.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I had to have a BC for damn Dizzy Dean Baseball............what the hell...........give us a copy and have it examined and then pack your shit and get out of the white house......................
jmannfishing 2 years ago
"I want you to forget for a moment everything you've heard about..."
this is usually an indication that bullshit is about to be served fresh and hot.
RedCrayonFace 2 years ago
Stick it up your ass. The head of the Hawaii Department Of Health said Obama's birth certificate is valid.
Obama doesn't owe you any explanation because YOU DON'T MERIT ONE. Go back to the nut house.
mysteryhill 2 years ago 2
Obama could release his birth certificate, then anyone could examine it at the hospital. There is also the problem with the wording that Dr. Fukino used. He stated that he had seen the original certificate, and that Hawaii has possession of that certificate, but did not say it was a Hawaiian certificate. Hawaii has foreign certificates and holds them when a citizen is foreign born. The real question is whether Obama has a Hawaiian certificate but that remains unconfirmed.
bill0756 2 years ago
when you go to that page, you will understand how pointless to keep asking an individual to get something he can't, this is on Hawaii's own website, even if he did get it, its irrelevant, bc Hawaii has Certification of Live Birth as their document for birth, end of story!!
ephor 2 years ago
"When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth." from hawaii, dot, gov /dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
ephor 2 years ago
"The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a persons birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. "
ephor 2 years ago
Let me try it this way. You're saying that Obama cannot obtain a copy of his original birth certificate because of this law, and that he can only get a copy of his COLB, is that correct?
If that is what you believe. Would you then agree that if he could obtain a copy of his original birth certificate, that he should do so?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I bet you think the moon landing was staged too. Try worrying about some real issues instead of this made up bullshit.
olivemike81 2 years ago
How can requesting to see the birth certificate of someone be "made up bullshit"? What am I making up? Your statement is based on your own ignorance and is completely nonsensical.
Your statement about the moon landing is a pathetic attempt to lump me in with conspiracy theories as if someone who thinks that Obama should show his BC would also believe that we didn't land on the moon.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
It's bullshit because you're ignoring the fact that he has produced a completely legitimate document that proves he was born in this country. Maybe he should do even more for nuts like you, but he has done everything that sane and reasonable people required. No "go sell crazy somewhere else."
olivemike81 2 years ago
The US State Dept says this on it's website: "Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes."
So I guess if the State Dept. told Obama that his COLB wasn't good enough to get a passport you would call them crazy as well for doubting him, right?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
"A birth certificate is a vital record that documents the birth of a child. In the United States, the term "birth certificate" can refer to either the original document or to a certification thereof."
ephor 2 years ago
Who the hell are you quoting?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
usavital (dot),com and wikipedia
ephor 2 years ago
Wikipedia is not a source but usavital is close enough. A COLB is known as an 'abstract', a 'computer generated printout', and a 'short-form birth certificate'. So you could say that a COLB is a version of a birth certificate but it is clearly not THE birth certificate. THE birth certificate is the long form version, AKA the certificate of live birth.
So, back to my question. A BC, specifically long form BC, or original BC, or THE BC, is a vital record, is it not?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I completely agree with your paragraph from "Wiki.... live birth". The Certificate of Live Birth short form is the certified copy of the vital record of a Hawaii Birth take from the long from Birth Certificate. They provide COLB because the information contained in that is enough to satisfy what any government or entity need which is where somebody is born, nobody needs to know doctors, hospitals, time, etc for any official purpose. For my Real Estate license they found out I was born in Merced
ephor 2 years ago
I didn't quote a paragraph from Wikipedia.
The COLB is NOT a certified copy of the original birth certificate. Obama has shown us a certified copy of his COLB. Are you saying that his COLB is a certified copy of his original long form BC?
A COLB is NOT enough to satisfy ANY government entity, most but not ANY. How many times do I have to quote the state department to you? Do you disagree that the state dept says that a COLB "may not be acceptable"?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Primary Documents
Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.
The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individuals birth.
ephor 2 years ago
The only thing that statute says "certified copy" not birth certificate. Obama would have a direct and tangible interest in getting certified copy of his birth record, which is the COLB. As a Loan Officer I can have direct acces to a complete mortgage tri-merge credit report, that people themselves can't get.
ephor 2 years ago
You are completely off the wall. A certified copy is a copy of another document like a BC or a COLB, do you understand this?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
In fact, go here: Go here: capitol.hawaii[dot]gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm
I had to replace the dots with [dot] to post the link. Notice that it's talking about "vital statistics records", ie BC's, COLBs
It says that to receive a certified copy of these records the person must have a direct and tangible interest in the record. It then states the "registrant" or owner of the document as meeting the description of having a "direct and tangible interest.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I have read that complete page and I know what is a certified copy. What you dont know is when that statue is referring to certified copy, it doesn't say copies, and its obvious the copy they do give to their people is COLB. WHERE DOES IT SAY BIRTH CERTIFICATE
ephor 2 years ago
OMG, you've gotta be the dumbest defend-Obama-at-all-costs person I've ever argued with.
Where does it say BC? The entire law is about vital records such as BIRTH CERTIFICATES! It's referring to a certified copy of a BC or a COLB or a death certificate?
It doesn't matter if their standard practice is to give out a COLB. This is about certified copies of vital records in general, which includes BC's because that's what a BC is, a vital record. Got it?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I'm a Libertarian, and when you can show me from a Law or Statute that a Hawaiian can get a BC from the state along with a COLB, which makes no sense 2 forms of proof for the same thing. If a person can get a BC, why would the state give a COLB too? You keep saying the entire law is about vital records, I dont disagree, but you say "such as birth certificates", thats your quote not the statute quote. you said it includes BC, where does Hawaii say it?
ephor 2 years ago
Ok, let me try to help you think logically. Is a BC a vital record?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
A vital record is a document issued by the government that provides proof of a major life event - birth, death, marriage, and divorce.
ephor 2 years ago
So a birth certificate is a vital record, right?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
"What is a Birth Certificate? It is documentary proof of a legal birth in the United States and the commonwealth states*** of the US. Our Birth Certificates are state issued, and are appropriate for legal matters. Some states have raised seals, some have stamped seals. We provide what the state has to offer. Additionally, some states have both certified and non certified copies".
ephor 2 years ago
Obama is the registrant of his own BC therefore he has a "direct and tangible interest" and can therefore receive a certified copy of his BC at any time. Do you understand this????
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
This is where your most wrong, and its critical to your side, if you can't even prove that he can get a BC any time he wants, then your argument is over!! Which Law clearly states that Obama can get a BIRTH CERTIFICATE any time he wants????
ephor 2 years ago
You are out of your mind or just thinking like a liberal, same thing. The law that states this is the freakin' law I've stated to you over and over again: Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18. Just scroll down and read it. Would Obama have a direct and tangible interest in his own BC? Of course. Do you disagree with that?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
pal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct. (g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof,
ephor 2 years ago
§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics reco.........artment of health. (b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
ephor 2 years ago
You can get a certified copy of a COLB or a certified copy of a BC. So what's your point?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The point is, it doesn't state anything about a Birth Certificate can be available to Obama or to the public, only a certified copy of health records detailing proof of a Birth, which is done with a COLB.
ephor 2 years ago
A certified copy can be a copy of a COLB or a copy of a BC. What's so hard to understand about that? The quote is about vital records. A COLB and a BC are both vital records and a certified copy of either can be obtained in the manner they describe. I can't believe you're still trying to prove that Obama, the POTUS, does not have the ability to obtain a copy of his own BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Can you show anywhere in Hawaii laws or regulations that any Hawaiian can get access to a BC, because so far you only say so. If a COLB is a certified copy of a birth, why is that not enough?
ephor 2 years ago
Huh? I said that Obama could get his BC at any time. That's obvious AND I backed it up with a quote from Hawaiian law. Why are you acting like I never backed it up? Do we have to go over this again? Here it is: Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18 states that the Health Dept "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
OMG, why you keep saying Obama can get his BC anytime, Hawaian Law and that Statutes only states "certified copy of any such record", nothing about BC. When you get something that says "hawaiians have access to copies of original long form birth certificate" then you would have a point!!!
ephor 2 years ago
Obama can obtain a certified copy of his BC ANY TIME HE WANTS. The law clearly states that he can. Do you seriously think I'm wrong on this?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Because it's not the BC! Why do you ignore everything that's already been said and act like we've never discussed this?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Reasons not born in Kenya:
A) Prohibitively expensive to fly to Kenya
B) Poor medical procedures compared to North America
C) Barack Sr's family did NOT approve of the relationship between Barack and Ann
D) Barack already had one wife in Kenya with one child and one child on the way. He told Ann he was divorced, but she later discovered he lied (per Barack jr's autobiography). Kenya would be the last place Barack would want to go.
ephor 2 years ago
Obama's mother told her friends that she was going to move to Kenya with BHO Sr. so all of your "reasons" are completely meaningless.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
She would want to have a baby where is A.more dangerous medically,B. She doesn't know the area, C. Expensive especially for 18 y/o college student, D. Place even Sr. didn't want to go because, 1. finish studies then go to Harvard after Hawaii, 2. His first wife is there, and he could be caught. E. Ann go see a family that dont like her? Please reference or source that statement that contradicts all of this please.
ephor 2 years ago
How about you reference a source that contradicts what I said.
All of your reasons mean nothing. You're assuming his mother made rational decisions, she often clearly did not, namely moving to Seattle with her newborn son and leaving her husband behind.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
if she moved to Seattle, why would she be in Kenya at anytime before that? She started school in WA right after his birth. She left her husband, because she might of found out of his first wife, kids, his controlling behavior. She went to school in an area she had a happy life in HS. Is it really rational for anybody to believe she was that irrational?
ephor 2 years ago
I don't understand the point of your first question. So she might've gone to Kenya over the summer of '61 and then shortly after arriving back in Hawaii she then goes to Seattle to start classes. It's irrational for an 18 year old woman with a newborn to leave her husband AND her parent's to attend college in a city far away from all of them. Yeah, I'd call that irrational.
There's no way you can prove anything here. It doesn't change the fact that we need to see the BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The statue doesn't make a distinction between "Certificate of Live Birth" or "Birth Certificate", only "certified copy"
ephor 2 years ago
The only time I see the term "certified copy" is not in your quote, but in your comment after the quote. So please explain what in the world you're talking about.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
"First, we note at the outset that the original birth
certificates of persons who were born out of wedlock, or who
Ms. Blossom Kaonohi
June 28, 1990
Page 4
OIP Op. Ltr. No. 90-23
have been adopted, are sealed by the DOH and public access to
such records must be by order of a court of record. See Haw.
Rev. Stat. 338-20, 338-20.5, 338-21 (1985 & Supp. 1989)"
ephor 2 years ago
there i sno doubt...he is seeking power and communism for us americans...i say no way man...amiricorps greenpeace united steel workers acorn and many other oginizations headed up by apollo are trying to turn our nation into a communist state...think im full of malarkey study up on it....you will find i am correct
SimpleManUSA 2 years ago
beeter check ou the apollo alliance...its a mess of communists who wrote the 700 bill con man job..almost all of its board members are in connected to obama and are his foot soldiers....they are pushing our nation into straight up communism through intimidation and theft...the stimulous plan is not being spent because they are goin g to us it in 2010 to stay in power....green-social justice-and unions...pulled together to spread communism...please check it out..obama is a communist dictator
SimpleManUSA 2 years ago
Comment removed
michalchik 2 years ago
if you were Obama, what would you do to show you were born in US?
ephor 2 years ago
Is that a joke? Are you aware of what we've been talking about this whole time?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
I know you would say for him to show a BC, but what if he doesn't have one and can't get one, then what?
ephor 2 years ago
If he doesn't have one then he obviously cannot prove where he was born and is therefore not eligible to be POTUS. If he has one, as the state of Hawaii claims that he does, then he would have no problem getting it. Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18 states that the Health Dept "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Maybe he can't prove from a BC, but the other ways from the Health Dept proves he has one, the newspaper clippings that prove he was born there, and legally a COLB proves his birth too. But if they are referring to a "certified copy" as the COLB, whats left to argue? How would any of us know how he is able to get a BC instead of a COLB?
ephor 2 years ago
I've already explained this: you cannot have a COLB if a BC doesn't exist, otherwise the COLB is invalid or fraudulent because a COLB is meant to confirm that a BC exists. If a valid COLB exists, so does a BC.
The newspaper clippings are evidence, not proof, because that info came from the Health Dept, not the hospital. So when a BC is given out, the Health Dept. would notify the newspapers. The "original birth certificate" that the Health Dept spoke of cannot possibly be the COLB.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
If we both agree that COLB confirms a BC exists and on file with Health Dept and they have confirmed its existence, why does more people seeing it make it better or more valid in any way? If the Health Deparments knows he was born in Hawaii, why is there a need for us to see something that we both agree exists.
ephor 2 years ago
A BC exists but we don't know if it has independent verification of his birth. Obama has already said that Kapi'olani Medical Center was the place of his birth. If he releases the BC and it has Kapi'olani listed along with the attending physician and his/her signature then we will have proof of his birth in Hawaii. If it does not have Kapi'olani listed, then we will know that he lied and is probably a fraud. We should not be asked to accept less than the best evidence of his birth.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Isnt' the point if he was born in a US state or not, why does it matter which hospital? What is the independent verification your looking for? BTW, the best evidence of any birth is a video of the doctor delivering a baby with a sworn government offical next to him. We have to deal with reality, which is COLB is the best evidence that is available.
ephor 2 years ago
A COLB is NOT the best evidence available and you know that. A BC is the original document. It is the document that contains all of the important details that we have never seen.
It matters which hospital because the name of the hospital is a verifiable detail. Obama says he was born at Kapi'olani. If he releases the BC and it shows that, then we will know that he was born in Hawaii. If he releases the BC and it doesn't show a hospital, then we will know that he is a fraud.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The COLB is the best AVAILABLE to us as the general public, and even to Mr. Obama himself, thats the difference we have is that you believe he has access and needs will to show it. I believe he doesn't have access therefore can't show it.
As an agent i work with CA DMV, the color of somebody eyes is on the MVR, and is a verifiable detail, but its not applicable to their driving record. Most important for me is if they have a license not extraneous useless information, same principle here.
ephor 2 years ago
You're just wrong on that. I quoted the Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18. Go take a look at it again. Clearly, Obama can get a copy of his BC if he wanted it. You're delusional to believe that he cannot.
Your DMV analogy is in no way applicable to what we're talking about. The name of the hospital and the name of the doctor and his/her signature could never be defined as "extraneous useless information". They are the two main items that can independently verify his birthplace.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The statute states"338-18. The Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to insure their proper use, and to insure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system,it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part, or by
ephor 2 years ago
I think Obama's strategy people are waiting for the "birther" movement to gain more steam and become a larger part of the Republican platform. Once it's developed to a larger part of their strategy, he'll release it and tell them to STFU, effectively deflating their momentum much more so than if the issue was resolved right now. Waiting to release it is win/win, because the issue either goes away, or will politically damage the Republican side.
therealkidfrombrookl 2 years ago
Asking to see his BC is about upholding the constitution. If he releases his BC and proves that he was born in Hawaii or if it proves he wasn't, we'll be right for demanding that he does it because it is the only conclusive proof. I'd say it's a win/win for us. The issue will never go away until he shows his BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Im not arguing. But I think it will be a while before anything is released, and I think that the political maneuvering I mentioned is the reason why. When I said win/win, I meant from the perspective of a political strategy, not in general.
therealkidfrombrookl 2 years ago
Well great, and in the mean time we'll continue to demand that the constitution be upheld.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
the words 'certification of live birth' 'any alterations, ect' and 'This copy, ect' are all type set in the 'arial' font.
The problem is 'arial was not created until the mid 1980's when the first microsoft PC came out.
EwakAmerica 2 years ago
Both side can always assert that they have supporting documentation on their side, the differences in how official those are is the difference. one side is governors, health dept, newspapers, the other side is an old relative, one African news agency. I know I rather trust elected US goverment officials than any African anytime!
ephor 2 years ago
This isn't about choosing which side to believe. I didn't bring up that small bit of evidence to prove to you that he was born in Kenya. This is about demanding to see the original BC that is on file in Hawaii and can conclusively prove that he was born there. I don't trust anyone on this issue, and neither should you. This is the office of the POTUS...
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
...We need incontrovertible proof and that can only be found in the original BC. Sure, the COLB is evidence but it's not even good enough for getting a passport sometimes. We need conclusive evidence. Congress had hearings to determine McCain's eligiblity and McCain even displayed to the world his own BC and yet we can't even see Obama's. It's not right.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
The bottom line is that he is either a Natural Born American Citizen or he is an illegal alien, on one side is newspaper announcents, a COLB, statements from the Hawaii Health Dept that has verfied a CB is on file, and on the other side is people's doubt with no supporting evidence that he wasn't born in Hawaii, and if he wasn't, he would have had to 1. take chances and lie in all he was doing in life from school, work, and POTUS, and 2. He needs to be deported
ephor 2 years ago
His paternal grandmother said that she was at his birth (in Kenya) and then retracted it after her family members told her that Obama was born in Hawaii. I've heard the audio recording.
In Africa, specifically Kenya, it is common knowledge that Obama was born there. A legitimate online newspaper from the country next door to Kenya said that Obama was returning to the continent of his birth when he came there for a visit a couple weeks ago...
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
...and I've personally spoken with a life long Kenyan who told me that Obama was born at his grandmother's home in Kenya and talked about how the real estate value for the houses nearby had gone up so much because of it. He didn't know me and I didn't know him but that's just what he told me. None of this proves that he was born in Kenya, but I say this just to prove that your statement about there being no supporting evidence is just not true...
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
Other than that statement about there being no supporting evidence that he wasn't born in Hawaii, I agree with your entire comment. This is why we must see a copy of his original BC. He can do it at any time and there's no excuse for not doing so.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
To me its really silly to choose an older relative that has vested interest for him being born in Kenya against the Republican Governor of Hawaii Linda Lingle who asserts her comments from her states documentation that is the electronic form of BC on file.
ephor 2 years ago
I explained why I brought the Kenya stuff up, so don't attempt to make it look like I'm comparing evidence, because I'm not. You said there was "no supporting evidence" that he was born in Kenya and you're wrong on that. Obviously there's a lot more credible evidence that shows he was born in Hawaii but a preponderance of evidence is not what matters. What matters is proof and that's not going to be found in statements from officials, it's found in the original BC. We need to see the BC.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
To me, some women saying he was born somewhere isn't evidence at all. His parents were born in Hawaii just a few months before Obama was born, do you really think they would fly overseas with a women that pregnant then to be back in US 3 weeks later, especially when they are broke, when she was seen by Susan Blake on Mercer Island?
ephor 2 years ago
Testimony is defined as evidence. And it's not just "some woman", it's his freakin' Kenyan grandmother who says she was at his birth. Do I really think they flew to Kenya? I don't know, it's certainly possible. It was the summer between classes and she hadn't visited his family yet so yes, it's VERY possible.
What are you trying to prove with your comment about Susan Blake? His mother went to Seattle a few weeks after he was born and started classes, so what's your point?
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago
"In the law, testimony is a form of evidence that is obtained from a witness who makes a solemn statement or declaration of fact. Testimony may be oral or written, and it is USUALLY MADE BY OATH OR ARRIMATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY". from Wikipedia
ephor 2 years ago
Yeah, in law. This isn't a court of law. Dictionary . com says, "Evidence in support of a fact or assertion" and that's exactly what his grandmother's statement was.
ShowMeTheBC 2 years ago