"Non Violence is the most powerful weapon you have". Sorry, but history doesn't necessarily bear that out. Non-violence is a tactic, and it may surprise many to know that the success of every touted "non violent" movement as always had violence in the back ground as a key factor. Also, how is smashing property violence? To be clear, im not suggesting the black bloc in this video was right (or wrong for that matter) but fetishism of non violence is also a problem for this movement
i dont like that the black block always use peaceful marches to hide themselves behind citizens. i think its good to put in force into the movement. but they should do it in a way innocents get not involved.
they say violence does not change but they throw you asses in jail for peaceful protest and you still say peaceful protest where are you knights in shinning army sure aint the police sure aint the government
Going around breaking windows and putting up graffiti on the walls, and you dumb shit's actually think you do not deserved to be tackled and have your ass kicked by local business owners?
@horta85 Well if you or those "local business owners" had any sense they'd be out there with them, and not sitting around talking shit and letting the world go straight to hell. Because if it wasn't for these kind of people we probably woulda gone to hell already.
only worried about my own ass. I would hate to see one of the worlds most powerfull Countries to lose its freedom. It would be a shame. There r allready 2 many places on earth that care little 2 nothing about Human Rights, Life and Freedom. Alot of places r simply happy with controling their people. And America as a whole is still one of thoes places where freedom is a normal thing. I just hope and hope that my daughter grows up in a free land as I did! Peace out, I love America
Is sitting down and eating Chicken Cordon Bleu, while drinking ice wine discussing matters really working. NO, And these r the finks who work as hard as babies have all the money and basically r telling u what to do. Even thoe they no dame well that if u guys stoped doing your REAL jobs that make money not spend it. They would be screwed, and things would go back to normal. Im really afraid, because once the U.S citizens lose their rights. Guess who wont be far behind. Please dont think im
will realize that with out U the People, they R Nothing! They sure as heck cant run all thoes compaines, ship all that mail, manufacture all thoes parts. Where do U think they get their money from. Your hard work, and now they want u to keep working and take away some of your basic rights. like freedome of speach. Well I say, who ever brings home the bacon should be able to say what ever they want. Not the goverment who steals from U. What right do they have. What they do isnt even really work
June Bugs, easy to walk over. Back 2 what I said about only 1 thing wrong with this protest, not enoughf people! 1000 is just going to piss off the goverment. But if some how u could just unite the whole Nation the working force im talking about. and simply don't go into work on monday. Just like in Vietnam the solders refused to fight and the War machine stoped. The goverment would NEVER DARE have their wole entire economy collaps in 1 Fucken Day. And as long as u can hold out. Eventully they
Words from a verry concerned Canadian, this demonstration was only wrong 4 one reason. Not that they broke some windows, think about what they r doing to u at peacefull protests. Its happening here in Canada aswell. But what I've noticed in America is they r geting extremely violent with u. And at the same time their trying to take your rights too! Im sure u know y they want your GUNS. No right to a fair trial before being detained, or a wepon to defend yourself with. Their setting u up to be --
smashing a private property is not violence! he is pretty much saying, "I'm going to forcefully stop smashing windows", how are you different than the cops dude?
Another historic result of liberal policies and liberal class warfare rhetoric. Happens every time because liberals are so easy to manipulate. Good job President Obama ... the "great uniter". Your occupy movement is 10% anarchists who play the other 90% like pawns. Then actual tax payers like me pick up the tab for their damage.
Our purpose is to keep resistance solidly anti-capitalist, uncompromising, total, and global. Let the capitalists have no quiet city. Let the forces of reform no longer use as silent foot soldiers. Let capitalism feel another blow. -Black Bloc Papers
Here's what I'd do. I'd spend time recruiting honorable people. Then we'd go to one of these protests with soft armor and shields. Form a phalanx around or in front of the protestors(depending on the circumstances and numbers left who aren't arrested). Keep the police at bay. Purely defensive. That's how you get things done. That's how you get progress. Ruin the police's progress. They can't arrest the last protestors if they can't get to them. They become violent then we react accordingly.
@ReThinkHeroic We would also be equipped with chemical gear and LED lights to blind them when they get too close at night. All in all their flash bangs, smoke, bean bag rounds, pepper spray, and tasers would be useless. They'd be forced to give up. That's what I'd do if I ever went to one these.
The Occupy protesters have their own means of protesting and the anarchists have theirs. The Occupy protesters make themselves look like big hypocrites.Occupy trying to prevent the anarchists ways of protesting is exactly what is happening to them by police and the government.
What a hypocrite. He was the most violent person there, he's the only one who used violence against people. Pacifists are more concerned with a few broken windows than actual people. The fact that they use violence to protect banks shows us who's side they're really on.
Any excuse to vandalize. Only one guy tried to stop them, and he was swarmed. I hate the Establishment, but I have no sympathy for these thugs, and wouldn't participate in this Occupy bullshit. Let them and the police beat each others' brains out. Most people are immoral.
@guatahala And these "philanthropic" vandals helped people how? Hey, how about setting some cars on fire, too? That's what they do in riots when they really "care."
Well, I wasn't attempting to argue that they were being philanthropic, but if you insist: They were attacking the physical infrastructure of capitalism to help block the flow of capital, make those banks slightly less profitable, normalise property dammage and open up a debate on the merits of both private property and obeying the law. So yes, they were doing us a favour.
@guatahala They did it for the perverse joy of destruction, the same as rioters who destroy anything around them. It will not affect our system of capitalism in the least, but will drive up everyone's cost of living by the same amount. Less profitable? BoA isn't profitable at all; it's in some danger for taking on all the bad debt of Countrywide Financial. Open a debate? You dislike private property, so you destroy it? Go check out your communist utopias, and see how nice they are.
What about the joy of destruction makes it perverse? What about the fact that they enjoyed it changes its effect?
It will affect capitalism in a minor way by disrupting the flow of capital. It will make BoA less profitable in a minor way by forcing them to pay for repairs.
And yes, I dislike private property, so I destroy it or communalise it to contribute to the communalisation of the world.
I'm not trying to create a Leninist utopia. I'm trying to make anarchy.
@guatahala Whose computer are you using, and who pays the electric and internet bills? How about destroying the computer, the lines, the profitable utility company and the internet provider? That, I would love to see. You want anarchy? Start with yourself. I predict that one day, you and your ilk will either grow out of this negative obsession, or you will be always homeless since no one will want to support a leech. Look for the old anarchists; see if they live up to your ideal.
Oh sure, all of them will need to go, and I would fully support someone destroying them. Beyond that, it would be terrible security culture to elaborate on any specific plans I might have or not have for attack.
What do you mean by 'You want anarchy? Start with yourself.' Isn't that what rebellion is? Destroying the constellation of power that creates me. Destroying capitalism.
Also, what do you mean by 'leech'?
And I don't serve an ideal. Ideals are what I attack.
that guy is an idiot. how is tacking people non violent? its people like him that keep out people who can actually change things in movements. when our government starts opening fire with live rounds on peaceful protestors, well see who gives two shits about a fucking banks window.
"I am Zack, from San Francisco. I claim to be a 99%, I als claim that the 1% have screwed us..but I will protect the 1%'s property they used to fuck me over" - what a loser. Just go home man. You dont even know what an anarcho-syndicalist is...*hint*...its those guys in the black masks.
WARNING: Black bloc Anarcho-syndicalists consider banks to be one of the greatest enemies to civilization. When they dress in black it does 2 things. It hides their identity and shows solidarity. If you attack an anarchist who is defacing a bank, you will find every single anarchist around you beating the shit out of you for trying to protect, in their mind, the scourge of mankind...the banking system. If you see an anarchist, get out of his or her way...or please join in.
Yeah, I remember that douchebag who tackled that guy. He shouted "agent provocateur" right before he did it. How ironic that the "peaceful protesters" are using violence to protect the property of the 1%. Fuck that guy. Let him crawl back to the mission with the rest of the hipsters and sip PBRs while listening to Elliot Smith and dreaming about "revolution."
@SkunkyAngry funny how the labels are thrown around, "hipsters", "hippies", etc, yet nobody looks at Black Bloc as poorly timing their autonomous action, an action I approve of. You put peaceful protesters in quotation marks, as if you have all the answers while the 40,000 strong that shut down the port that day are all from the mission(?), when we are the Oakland working poor, parents, children and elderly. Being reactionary is not revolution. Planning is key. Timing is everything.
Haha, moma's boy got his 30 seconds of fame here. Too bad he's from San Francisco and seems like a bitch, because now there's going to be 'copy-cat bitches' defending the values of a protest - by tackling "unknown fiends" that dress in black and hide their faces. Seems brave.
@HorizonHipHop Because that sort of sentiment is what underminds your very message. You can't claim to be a non-violent movement even as you suggest violence, you, or at least your current line of thinking, is whats wrong with this movement.
@XKUNXEntertainment -good for you, as it should be done, but MOST of these OWS'ers have. Is there a bunch of greedy people and corruption at banks? duh, of course. But they only thrive becs we finance them, well us and our crooked govt. But not ALL are bad. And they do serve a purpose. The bank I use doesnt charge fees, didnt take a bailout. If someone tried to burn it down, I would protect it. Good companies are out there.
What a piece of shit, he takes it upon him self to be the grand fucken wizard of Occupy, regurgitates some wannabe-Ghandi bullshit and basically says he has the right to determine what the movement is and does. Little Blackshirt fascist fuck.
@marcelocm07 yeah, but who ya gonna call when someone steals your iPod while you're out protesting corporations (like Apple)? Certainly not the anarchist who stole it, lol.
@61TUNER property destruction is just the physical manifestation of the peaceful demonstrators rage. this can be expected when the police are brutalizing people.
People who make under $150,000 a year should only pay a 15% income Tax only...........Those Big Time Investors that make Millions and Billions in portfolio income should pay 35%. right now somebody who makes 150k a year has to pay 35%, that's only to the FEDERAL tax. But some super rich investors that makes millions in the stock market only pays 15% is not fair!!!!! The Tax law should to the opposite>
There will be a candlelight vigil for the poor and innocent broken windows tomorrow at 6pm. All non-violent hippies and hipsters are welcome to join us.
Five people breaking windows won't hurt the movement. I'd be worried about all the dumb asses who don't even know why they're there. The Anarchists are a vital piece of this movement. You can't have all peaceful protestors/hippes/hipsters. You need a little bit of chaos as well. Those Anarchists that people hate would be the first ones to save your asses when you're getting the shit kicked out of you by police. Food for thought.
@ReThinkHeroic the entire occupy movement is based on anarchist principles of direct democracy, mutual aid, cooperation, and voluntary association. even if the anarchists arent there physically, their ideals remain. and youre right... you couldnt have had martin luther king jr without malcolm x and the black panthers, you couldnt have gandhi without the indian militant resistance, and you cant have the occupy movement without the moderate protesters AND the militant ones like the black bloc.
@ReThinkHeroic They're not gonna help when most of these people are paid by police to do this, or are undercover cops causing violence to disrupt the protests.
@ReThinkHeroic The Anarchists will be the reason people are getting the shit kicked out of them by police. Just as the man said in the video; they give them a reason to crack down.
@repogod911 That's why they dress differently. Not only that, but the police will ALWAYS find a reason to go violent. If the protestors refuse to move they'll get pepper sprayed, beaten, or shot with a bean bag. Besides, if the police try and use Anarchists as a reason for going violent against all protestors, then I guess that just shows how corrupt they are. The police are just doing their jobs for the most part. Either way, police being forced to use those means is inevitable.
@ReThinkHeroic I am an OAK activist.This day of general strike involved children, elderly and working poor, not a bunch of hippies, as you parrot. I am ALL for autonomous action; I support the anarchists. But black bloc ops were ill timed on this day. But these masked kids (from Santa Cruz, not E Oak) will NOT be there to defend me in a pinch, as you say, since they consistently scatter- while the elders allow themselves arrest.This is Oakland! We know activism & when to act up.
@ReThinkHeroic Peaceful protests are Constitutionally protected until it becomes violent. Some of the "anarchists" may very well be cops. It would be interesting to see a citizen's arrest on them. Undercover pigs can be usually spotted in groups of 2 or more, isolated from the group, wearing backpacks (supplies) and certain body language. They fit the profile.
PS: That bank has given some $14 million to local charities. Want to bet they think twice before giving again. What a bunch of idiots. The only difference between these assholes in black with their faces hidden and the assholes in black beating up on protesters is a badge. They're all petty tyrants trying to rule through force.
This kind of childish douchebaggery is exactly why anarchy will never work. That window didn't do a damn thing. Stupid little kids throwing fits. You accomplish nothing like this and the only statement you make is that you're an ignorant asshat. OOH I BROKE A WINDOW RAWR THAT WILL TEACH THEM! Yeah, congrats asshole. You created an injury hazard and made a whole movement look bad because YOU care more about property than about people.
@lowgenius how is this showing that anarchy will never work? anarchy HAS and IS working right now all over the world. are you not familiar with the Confederacion Nacional Del Trabajo? how about the CNT during the spanish revolution that occupied all of catalonia, abolished money and organized society based on a gift economy?no? what about exarchia athens? christiana denmark? oaxaca mexico? the free territories of the ukraine? the zapatistas? how about educating yourself on anarchism first.
@michaelglass00 - How about taking your condescension, folding it up until it's all sharp corners, and sticking it up your ass? "Anarchy" - "a state of society without government or law." CNT cannot be both a political party and an anarchist group; those things are mutually exclusive. The fact that the leadership of the group apparently can't define anarchy doesn't make them successful anarchists, it makes them illiterate.. IWA != "anarchists."
@michaelglass00 - What has "anarchism" done for Greece? Bread and circuses until they have to be propped up by the rest of the EU just to survive. EZLN is a leftist group, not anarchist. Christiana is a community with rules and law enforced by common agreement, again: not an anarchy.
And these stupid little kids in their facemasks breaking windows aren't "anarchists" either. They're obnoxious little dicks throwing a childish fit and risking the safety of innocent people in the process.
@Michaelglass00 - which, as I have said, is exactly why anarchy will not work anywhere in our lifetimes: stupid little pissant tyrants like this who just want to destroy things and break shit because actually thinking about issues and working on constructive solutions is too much like real work. Furthermore - as your own examples point out - any social movement that starts out as anarchy becomes a government (and thus not an anarchy, by definition) as it succeeds and grows, if by no other...
@Michaelglass00 - mechanism than common agreement between individuals. "We agree that killing is wrong, so let us agree that we will protect each other from those who would try to kill us." That is a law, sunshine, and as soon as the first law shows up, you no longer have an "anarchy."
How about YOU educating yourself on anarchism, instead of thinking you're qualified to teach a lifelong political activist and polisci minor the fundamentals of a concept you clearly don't understand yourself.
its so sad seeing these fuckers trying to protect a bank that throws families into the streets. what the fuck is wrong with you assholes? property destruction is not violence, tackling someone in the street is violence. idiots.
@michaelglass00 IT,S NOT TIME FOR VIOLENCE. YET. THE PROTESTERS ARE,NT PROTECTING ANY BANKS. WE WONT LOSE PERSPECTIVE. IF VANDALISM WERE NECESSARY WE COULD MAKE A BETTER POINT HERE IN SACRAMENTO. IT,S ABOUT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION. FOR NOW?
they ignore peaceful protest and property destruction is the physical manifestation of our fucking rage. we might alienate you reformist liberal motherfuckers but we inspire the youth that see how the system routinely destroys.
It makes my blood boil seeing a few ignorant dumbasses completely ruining the whole fucking movement for everyone else. If you smash a window or start a fire at an Occupy movement, you belong in jail.
Zack may be right, but it is not the right way to react. Instead follow them around and tell them to be peaceful instead of fighting them. If they are police provocateurs talk to your fellow demonstrators about freezing them out of the demonstration, but if they are real Balck Bloc you'll have to let it go, and take it up in another forum. This is not the way to do it. There might be a lot of juvinile Balck Bloc'ers around, but negotiation is the path of understanding! Organize!
It may be violent to attack a building, but attacking another human being like the vigilante does is something completely different. Think about it! Who's doing the worst violence? Those smashing a few windows or those foolishly attacking other people? Who the HELL was this vigilante?
i'm inclined to disagree, having known quite a few radicals and activists who support these tactics, both from the bay area and outside. the black bloc has a pretty long history worldwide, and is well documented in books and films. check out the films Breaking the Spell and Get Rid Of Yourself.
Breaking the Spell (about the Battle of Seattle 1999)
/watch?v=Myu74VAN92Q
Get Rid Of Yourself (Genoa 2001, also more abstract philosophy)
..."i dont want people shooting at cops at a protest, i dont want to get shot back at" i say to you, it is unlikely that the cops will shoot rounds at a mostly unarmed crowd, if they do, it would strengthen the cause tenth-fold. and if you are against being shot at because you are scarwed to die, then stop being such a pussy, we all gotta die sometime.
I both agree and disagree with Zach in the video. on the one hand hes right that biased news outlets will focus on these window breakers, in stead of the main narrative. On the other hand, you see all the middle eastern uprisings. They all have citizens or defected military picking up arms to combat their oppressors. if not now, then when are Americans going to do the same. We are too comfortable to pick up arms, and we wont until enough people become decimated. And to any response that says,
Time for citizens to detain these vandals and call the police and have them arrested for property destruction. Photograph their faces as they may be police agent provocateurs.
Black Bloc works with the cops to discredit peaceful protests. They've done it at every protest I've participated in since the that in San Francisco in 1991 against the first gulf war. A couple years ago, they were completely exposed in Quebec.
/watch?v=XUrtdHQySTQ
If you get a chance, get footage of their faces after they break shit and follow-up with the DA to be sure they are prosecuted. Oakland PD should be sued for damages by effected businesses.
@ghfloorman have you seen the video from montebello? most of the people shouting those cops down ARE black bloc, and the two cops are rather ill-disguised. in that case, the cops were trying to shut down a series of demos before they began- other examples are different. at the 2010 g20 the black bloc marched with the peaceful crowd for a period of time, then moved away to break shit. if they had really been provocateurs they would have attacked right away, to shut down the demo before it began.
@ghfloorman in this case the general strike was not even shut down or overshadowed by the violence, a massive day of action went off with barely a hitch and the smashing was just a small part of a broader pattern of attacks on the 1%. if this was a police action, it was an entirely ineffective one.
For this ass to attack someone for committing an act of vandalism and then declare that he promotes non-violence, I can only thank him for displaying the doublethink of the left. He cannot claim to be peaceful. His best recourse as a pacifist would have been to place himself as a human shield between vandals and an object. He chose to attack. To watch this video is to watch pacifism die as an ideology
@Castartanarchy we all the right to sel defence. This right includes the defense of others and property. Wake up u idiot, and read the constitution. Self defense or the defense of others is not an attack. Your post was pitiful. Your opinion is faulty. Your ignorance of the law is appalling. It's jerks like you that hve allowed the country to fail.
Now go hide under your keyboard before you make an even bigger ass of yourself.
Self defense? What was in danger? Property owned by banks that have foreclosed on hundreds of thousands, and threaten to foreclose on many more? The constitution? Of what value is that in this instance, and why should I care about a two-hundred year old rag I have no interest in. I am not ignorant of the law. I just don't care for it. They were not written by me, and I do not consent to them. The USA has not yet failed, but I hope it does. I see no value in it. I need not hide.
@Castartanarchy The vandals MUST be stopped by any means necessary. They are cops or working with the cops, and are there ONLY to discredit non-violence. Tackling these scumbags is self-defense because the cops who make-up Black Bloc are the excuse the uniformed cops need to shoot Scott Olsen and others in the head.
I thought this statement was satirical, but then I followed some other comments you've left elsewhere. Then I just thought you were trolling me. Yet with a chant as ass backward as this:
"SMASH THE POLICE-SUPPORTED BLACK BLOC!!
SMASH THE AGENT PROVOCATEURS!!
LONG LIVE THE NON-VIOLENT OWS MOVEMENT!!"
...I think the only people getting trolled are the pacifists themselves.
@ghfloorman I really dont think you realize government has failed for generations. This violence is absolutely intolerable, but more government is not the solution. Wake up.
I've watched police-backed agent provocateurs, like the Black Bloc thugs currently destroying the Occupy Oakland, for decades.
Arrest them and DEMAND they be prosecuted. Make the cops prosecute the very people they send in to disrupt protests. STOP LETTING THE COP-BACKED PUNKS AND ANARCHISTS DETROY YOUR MOVEMENT!! PEACE!
Whatever. Keep destroying the movement with vandalism. You pricks always have, always will.
Someday, Americans will grow-up and achieve real progress through the actions of adults. Until then, the childish punks within Black Bloc and other collections of spoiled brats will continue to completely undermine real progress.
I congratulate the "anarchists" for destroying yet another movement. Good job, assholes!
You're being a real fool. Address my points. I accuse you, by your own words, of failing to live up to pacifist, non-violent standards of values and principals. You have written nothing to contradict this, so why shouldn't everyone reading your comments disregard you as an empty blow-hard? As for anarchists, some of whom are participants in the block blocs, and some like myself who are not... we haven't destroyed this project. It's still here, but if you leave, good riddance.
@ghfloorman - You're an idiot of you think this "movement" is non-violent. 5 days ago an Occupy goon from Oakland murdered a young man right outside the tent city, last week, the Occupiers threw a couple elderly ladies down a flight of stairs in DC. Add to that the dozen rapes, thousands of assaults, $3 million+ in damages, the street cart vendors who were beaten and robbed in San Diego, and the list goes on and on. How ignorant you must be to think that is peaceful. Videos are all over YouTube.
-hey ghfloorman, i think this criticism illustrates a point well: opponents of occupy (media, cops, conservatives) will paint occupy as "violent" regardless of what they do. anything disruptive or illegal, even camping in a public park, can be labeled "violent".
really, whats the difference between smashing windows of banks and taking over public space?
both violate the law, disregard property rights, and menace the 1%'s power, but neither actually harms any living thing.
@PaulPradaShow to actually address this point, don't be ridiculous.
rapes and assaults occur more often in your average bar scene than occupy. the world isn't a safe place, any place where people come together will have occasional violence and crime.
this could be used as an excuse to break up ANY gathering of people.
@anarcrustie "rapes and assaults occur more often in your average bar scene than occupy." Interesting point with absolutely no basis in fact, until someone has actually counted up all the rapes and assaults in the occupy camps. I can tell you one thing that IS a fact - in the numerous Tea Party demonstrations I've attended, there weren't ANY rapes or assaults. I think it has something to do with the fact that "occupiers" behave like animals, and the Tea Party behaves themselves.
@anarcrustie - "Any place where people come together will have occasional violence and crime" you say. Really? Then why is it that in nearly 3 years of Tea Party protests where there have been actually MORE people than Occupy, has there NEVER been a rape, murder, assault, or property damage? See, facts are fact, statistics are statistics, and no matter how hard you try to change them, they remain.
Well, I would say that the Tea Party protests weren't conducive to recording the crimes of Tea Party members. Tea Party supporters only performed pickets and rallies. No occupations, which carries different consequences. In an occupation, you come to live within your protest demonstration. Since most accidents and violent acts take place around places people live, occupations are more high-risk. Tea Partiers go home and commit their crimes there.
@Castartanarchy - That's probably the most lame answer ever. The Tea Partiers went home because they have JOBS and real life RESPONSIBILITIES to attend to unlike the criminals "occupying" private property with no respect for other people as demonstrated through their violence, or for others property, as demonstrated through their destruction. Facts are, no documented crimes at Tea Partiers, thousands of documented crimes with the Occupy movement. Facts are facts. Don't assume things.
I tried to give a reasonable explanation for this situation. The fact is that humans experience the majority of their crimes and accidents at the place they live. Occupations create waste and tension as a result of the sudden joining of strangers in spaces not meant for habitation. Pickets are low risk and are rapid. People at these occupations may be unemployed given the economy, or employed and only able to remain at the protest for a short time. Now stop assuming yourself.
@ghfloorman do it, I would hold them down rip off there masks take pictures of them, and turn them over to the cops and demand a public hearing and fallow the case. also the seem to young to be cops.
I don't think so, Tim. There are plenty of people willing to commit acts of vandalism in protest. And if you think the police are going to attack you, why not prepare for it?
The police NEED us to vandalize and be otherwise violent. It's the excuse they need.
Those who give it to them must be neutralized and sent to fill the state's prisons so there is then no room in them for peaceful protesters like me.
You see someone invite police action by committing violence or vandalism, video tape their actions, place them under arrest, turn them over to the police. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, FOLLOW THEIR PROSECUTION. MAKE THE COPS PROSECUTE THEIR OWN.
"...peaceful protesters like me. You see someone invite police action by committing violence or vandalism, video tape their actions, place them under arrest, turn them over to the police."
You really have lost all basis for calling yourself a "peaceful" protester. Even if you don't commit violence yourself, if you hire someone else (police) to do it for you, you are violent. Dictators don't commit violence either. They hire cops. You have that much in common with Gaddafi.
Also, Gaddafi didn't need the rebels to become violent as an excuse for violence, and that much he has in common with cops in general. Cops don't need an excuse to be violent. That's part of their job. The entire order of law, if ignored or pushed aside, is backed by the threat of force authorized by the state. Cops are inherently violent. Police have degrees of force they can choose, but they and the military are the only institutions privileged with this choice.
Gaddafi? WTF?! Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that one who bought the rationale for the NATO attack on Libya would now defend the vandals now discrediting OWS. Oh well. OWS rocked until it was overtaken by spoiled punks breaking shit; punks who are easily pushed to movement-crushing violence by a few well-placed agent provocateurs. Black Bloc ruins everything. Always have, always will. Oh well.
I never said I "brought" any rationale for war, but I don't really care since I never liked Gaddafi anyway, and I've never felt sorrow when someone sweeps up trash and removes it to the garbage bin of history. But cute how you're trying to change subjects to ignore both of my points on how you betray non-violent principals. 1) Police are violent without need for excuses, and 2) you are violent for hiring them. Address those points before you move on.
You compared me to Gaddafi, yet I'm changing the subject.
The vandals are killing the movement. That's the bottom line. I think more people need to speak out against the movement-destroying anarchist assholes. That's all I have to say. I'll only comment that the attack on Libya was complete BS built on lies. "He's killing his own people!" TOTAL bs as far as I've been able to tell.
Read the addendum below where I continued my comment. The character limit cut me off, so I had to split it. Yes, you are changing the subject. Vandals are not killing the movement. Lack of direction is killing the movement. Anarchists are not killing the movement. Anarchists, such as David Graeber, are the only reason why this is a movement. Look it up and be grateful to us. As for Gaddafi? Stop being such a whiny loser and get over it. Fuck your peace.
@Castartanarchy cops are inherently violent in some places because the criminals (re: occutards) they come in contact with are inherently violent, such as in this video. if you don't want to be cracked in the skull by a cop with a baton, don't resist arrest after you've been caught breaking a window, stealing something that isn't yours, or otherwise breaking the law. Better still, bathe, and go get a job.
Did you even read my comment below on why being a police officer is an inherently violent profession? Shut the fuck up, bitch. The adults are talking.
@Castartanarchy i'm sorry, it's hard to read something written by someone who can't type without drool splashing up from their keyboard. here's a suggestion...why don't you put on your drool bib, spaz helmet and 'tard tether, and go outside to play? Only this time, when you're making mud pies - please don't crap in the sandbox....the flies follow you home and cause problems for the whole neighborhood.
Still can't face my criticism, so now you won't even try. Don't bother, you've already displayed that you can't or you would have by now. You lost this argument a month ago. Your pacifism lost with you. Get over it.
"Non Violence is the most powerful weapon you have". Sorry, but history doesn't necessarily bear that out. Non-violence is a tactic, and it may surprise many to know that the success of every touted "non violent" movement as always had violence in the back ground as a key factor. Also, how is smashing property violence? To be clear, im not suggesting the black bloc in this video was right (or wrong for that matter) but fetishism of non violence is also a problem for this movement
jdugmar 3 days ago
I would have killed that fucking hippie if he tried to tackle me.
Stupid mofo talks about "non-violence"...
RoyalAssPain 2 weeks ago
lol poor people...
TheSundayDelight 3 weeks ago
i dont like that the black block always use peaceful marches to hide themselves behind citizens. i think its good to put in force into the movement. but they should do it in a way innocents get not involved.
cuchukid 4 weeks ago
they say violence does not change but they throw you asses in jail for peaceful protest and you still say peaceful protest where are you knights in shinning army sure aint the police sure aint the government
maybeso08 1 month ago
doesn't occupy oakland know that the 1% doesnt live there? bunch of retards> i guess that's why theyre all un- and under-employed
spencp86 1 month ago 3
The 27%
toddclemmer 1 month ago
Going around breaking windows and putting up graffiti on the walls, and you dumb shit's actually think you do not deserved to be tackled and have your ass kicked by local business owners?
You shit's have the IQ of a penis foreskin!
horta85 1 month ago
@horta85 Well if you or those "local business owners" had any sense they'd be out there with them, and not sitting around talking shit and letting the world go straight to hell. Because if it wasn't for these kind of people we probably woulda gone to hell already.
MrVortex1111 1 month ago
@MrVortex1111
So by vandalizing my own city I'm not allowing as you put "letting the world go straight to hell" You obviously belong with those morons as well.
horta85 1 month ago
only worried about my own ass. I would hate to see one of the worlds most powerfull Countries to lose its freedom. It would be a shame. There r allready 2 many places on earth that care little 2 nothing about Human Rights, Life and Freedom. Alot of places r simply happy with controling their people. And America as a whole is still one of thoes places where freedom is a normal thing. I just hope and hope that my daughter grows up in a free land as I did! Peace out, I love America
msmsmswendy 1 month ago
Is sitting down and eating Chicken Cordon Bleu, while drinking ice wine discussing matters really working. NO, And these r the finks who work as hard as babies have all the money and basically r telling u what to do. Even thoe they no dame well that if u guys stoped doing your REAL jobs that make money not spend it. They would be screwed, and things would go back to normal. Im really afraid, because once the U.S citizens lose their rights. Guess who wont be far behind. Please dont think im
msmsmswendy 1 month ago
will realize that with out U the People, they R Nothing! They sure as heck cant run all thoes compaines, ship all that mail, manufacture all thoes parts. Where do U think they get their money from. Your hard work, and now they want u to keep working and take away some of your basic rights. like freedome of speach. Well I say, who ever brings home the bacon should be able to say what ever they want. Not the goverment who steals from U. What right do they have. What they do isnt even really work
msmsmswendy 1 month ago
June Bugs, easy to walk over. Back 2 what I said about only 1 thing wrong with this protest, not enoughf people! 1000 is just going to piss off the goverment. But if some how u could just unite the whole Nation the working force im talking about. and simply don't go into work on monday. Just like in Vietnam the solders refused to fight and the War machine stoped. The goverment would NEVER DARE have their wole entire economy collaps in 1 Fucken Day. And as long as u can hold out. Eventully they
msmsmswendy 1 month ago
Words from a verry concerned Canadian, this demonstration was only wrong 4 one reason. Not that they broke some windows, think about what they r doing to u at peacefull protests. Its happening here in Canada aswell. But what I've noticed in America is they r geting extremely violent with u. And at the same time their trying to take your rights too! Im sure u know y they want your GUNS. No right to a fair trial before being detained, or a wepon to defend yourself with. Their setting u up to be --
msmsmswendy 1 month ago
smashing a private property is not violence! he is pretty much saying, "I'm going to forcefully stop smashing windows", how are you different than the cops dude?
TheRedLeapForward 1 month ago
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Another historic result of liberal policies and liberal class warfare rhetoric. Happens every time because liberals are so easy to manipulate. Good job President Obama ... the "great uniter". Your occupy movement is 10% anarchists who play the other 90% like pawns. Then actual tax payers like me pick up the tab for their damage.
MrXtraconservative 1 month ago
...just one MOAB.
SippinonMickeys 1 month ago
I'd love to go to one of these to kick some anarchist hippie ass.
SippinonMickeys 1 month ago
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Our purpose is to keep resistance solidly anti-capitalist, uncompromising, total, and global. Let the capitalists have no quiet city. Let the forces of reform no longer use as silent foot soldiers. Let capitalism feel another blow. -Black Bloc Papers
Up the bloc! All power to the communes! (A)///(E)
bjarczyk 1 month ago
Violence has never gotten us anywhere. NEVER!!!!!
RicknSI2000 1 month ago
@RicknSI2000 The heroes of the antifascist resistance, then and now, I'm sure strongly disagree.
bjarczyk 1 month ago
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Shyguy419 1 month ago
Here's what I'd do. I'd spend time recruiting honorable people. Then we'd go to one of these protests with soft armor and shields. Form a phalanx around or in front of the protestors(depending on the circumstances and numbers left who aren't arrested). Keep the police at bay. Purely defensive. That's how you get things done. That's how you get progress. Ruin the police's progress. They can't arrest the last protestors if they can't get to them. They become violent then we react accordingly.
ReThinkHeroic 1 month ago
@ReThinkHeroic We would also be equipped with chemical gear and LED lights to blind them when they get too close at night. All in all their flash bangs, smoke, bean bag rounds, pepper spray, and tasers would be useless. They'd be forced to give up. That's what I'd do if I ever went to one these.
ReThinkHeroic 1 month ago
@ReThinkHeroic yes! recruit time lets do this.
djphilmore 1 month ago
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The Occupy protesters have their own means of protesting and the anarchists have theirs. The Occupy protesters make themselves look like big hypocrites.Occupy trying to prevent the anarchists ways of protesting is exactly what is happening to them by police and the government.
Shyguy419 1 month ago
Those dudes smashing the windows aren't occupy dudes they are anarchists.
312dudeman 2 months ago
@312dudeman Thanks for the info captain obvious
Shyguy419 1 month ago
What a hypocrite. He was the most violent person there, he's the only one who used violence against people. Pacifists are more concerned with a few broken windows than actual people. The fact that they use violence to protect banks shows us who's side they're really on.
jgolowka 2 months ago
theres a lot more than five people in black
LibCon00 2 months ago
Any excuse to vandalize. Only one guy tried to stop them, and he was swarmed. I hate the Establishment, but I have no sympathy for these thugs, and wouldn't participate in this Occupy bullshit. Let them and the police beat each others' brains out. Most people are immoral.
Miss Ann Thropy
juslookin3 2 months ago
@juslookin3
Protip: If you value bank windows more than people, you're pretty pro-Establishment.
guatahala 2 months ago
@guatahala And these "philanthropic" vandals helped people how? Hey, how about setting some cars on fire, too? That's what they do in riots when they really "care."
juslookin3 2 months ago
@juslookin3
Well, I wasn't attempting to argue that they were being philanthropic, but if you insist: They were attacking the physical infrastructure of capitalism to help block the flow of capital, make those banks slightly less profitable, normalise property dammage and open up a debate on the merits of both private property and obeying the law. So yes, they were doing us a favour.
guatahala 2 months ago
@guatahala They did it for the perverse joy of destruction, the same as rioters who destroy anything around them. It will not affect our system of capitalism in the least, but will drive up everyone's cost of living by the same amount. Less profitable? BoA isn't profitable at all; it's in some danger for taking on all the bad debt of Countrywide Financial. Open a debate? You dislike private property, so you destroy it? Go check out your communist utopias, and see how nice they are.
juslookin3 2 months ago
@juslookin3
What about the joy of destruction makes it perverse? What about the fact that they enjoyed it changes its effect?
It will affect capitalism in a minor way by disrupting the flow of capital. It will make BoA less profitable in a minor way by forcing them to pay for repairs.
And yes, I dislike private property, so I destroy it or communalise it to contribute to the communalisation of the world.
I'm not trying to create a Leninist utopia. I'm trying to make anarchy.
guatahala 2 months ago
@guatahala Whose computer are you using, and who pays the electric and internet bills? How about destroying the computer, the lines, the profitable utility company and the internet provider? That, I would love to see. You want anarchy? Start with yourself. I predict that one day, you and your ilk will either grow out of this negative obsession, or you will be always homeless since no one will want to support a leech. Look for the old anarchists; see if they live up to your ideal.
juslookin3 2 months ago
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guatahala 2 months ago
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@juslookin3
Oh sure, all of them will need to go, and I would fully support someone destroying them. Beyond that, it would be terrible security culture to elaborate on any specific plans I might have or not have for attack.
What do you mean by 'You want anarchy? Start with yourself.' Isn't that what rebellion is? Destroying the constellation of power that creates me. Destroying capitalism.
Also, what do you mean by 'leech'?
And I don't serve an ideal. Ideals are what I attack.
guatahala 2 months ago
NON VIOLENCE IS RACIST AND CLASSIST!
amillan2004 2 months ago
Hello Richard Sexton. Your EXPOSED
dallasgoldbug 2 months ago
that guy is an idiot. how is tacking people non violent? its people like him that keep out people who can actually change things in movements. when our government starts opening fire with live rounds on peaceful protestors, well see who gives two shits about a fucking banks window.
commonhumantraits 2 months ago
All they know is one stupid chant. Bunch of retards accelerating the New World Order.
UCAGIB 2 months ago
there were about over 4500 ppl at dat occupy march!! Why r certain so-and-so reducing the numbers?
147saad 2 months ago
You occupiers should be going after all the senior citizens demanding their enititlements. That's why this country is going broke.
cdcruce 2 months ago
"I am Zack, from San Francisco. I claim to be a 99%, I als claim that the 1% have screwed us..but I will protect the 1%'s property they used to fuck me over" - what a loser. Just go home man. You dont even know what an anarcho-syndicalist is...*hint*...its those guys in the black masks.
cosmicforums 2 months ago
WARNING: Black bloc Anarcho-syndicalists consider banks to be one of the greatest enemies to civilization. When they dress in black it does 2 things. It hides their identity and shows solidarity. If you attack an anarchist who is defacing a bank, you will find every single anarchist around you beating the shit out of you for trying to protect, in their mind, the scourge of mankind...the banking system. If you see an anarchist, get out of his or her way...or please join in.
cosmicforums 2 months ago
Yeah, I remember that douchebag who tackled that guy. He shouted "agent provocateur" right before he did it. How ironic that the "peaceful protesters" are using violence to protect the property of the 1%. Fuck that guy. Let him crawl back to the mission with the rest of the hipsters and sip PBRs while listening to Elliot Smith and dreaming about "revolution."
SkunkyAngry 2 months ago
@SkunkyAngry funny how the labels are thrown around, "hipsters", "hippies", etc, yet nobody looks at Black Bloc as poorly timing their autonomous action, an action I approve of. You put peaceful protesters in quotation marks, as if you have all the answers while the 40,000 strong that shut down the port that day are all from the mission(?), when we are the Oakland working poor, parents, children and elderly. Being reactionary is not revolution. Planning is key. Timing is everything.
FunKills1969 2 months ago
Haha, moma's boy got his 30 seconds of fame here. Too bad he's from San Francisco and seems like a bitch, because now there's going to be 'copy-cat bitches' defending the values of a protest - by tackling "unknown fiends" that dress in black and hide their faces. Seems brave.
PhyerTwo 3 months ago
they're pushing charges and arresting people that are non-violent anyways. why not fight back a little?
HorizonHipHop 3 months ago 5
@HorizonHipHop Because that sort of sentiment is what underminds your very message. You can't claim to be a non-violent movement even as you suggest violence, you, or at least your current line of thinking, is whats wrong with this movement.
theredvsbluefan 1 month ago
@HorizonHipHop i know right no peace no justice
maybeso08 1 month ago
@HorizonHipHop no shit the police are oppressors
McMuffin752 1 month ago
The Black Bloc lives on. Fuck OWS
JunkyardWinnebago 3 months ago 2
quit calling me citizen
bradq 3 months ago
@XKUNXEntertainment Terrorist much?
MervTheTerrible 3 months ago
FUCK THE BANKS SMASH MORE WINDOWS BURN THEM TO THE GOD DAMN GROUND
XKUNXEntertainment 3 months ago
@XKUNXEntertainment and you've never taken a bank loan RIGHT?
odyman3 3 months ago
@odyman3
No sir I have not, in fact I pulled ALL of my money made out of banks over a year ago.
My comment still stands. Smash them to the god damn ground
XKUNXEntertainment 3 months ago
@XKUNXEntertainment -good for you, as it should be done, but MOST of these OWS'ers have. Is there a bunch of greedy people and corruption at banks? duh, of course. But they only thrive becs we finance them, well us and our crooked govt. But not ALL are bad. And they do serve a purpose. The bank I use doesnt charge fees, didnt take a bailout. If someone tried to burn it down, I would protect it. Good companies are out there.
odyman3 3 months ago
What a piece of shit, he takes it upon him self to be the grand fucken wizard of Occupy, regurgitates some wannabe-Ghandi bullshit and basically says he has the right to determine what the movement is and does. Little Blackshirt fascist fuck.
PostgodAfterbirth 3 months ago
ahahahaha tryna b a hero dumcunt!
MrYayahh 3 months ago
OWS destroying property that american citizens worked for.
lock all those assholes up
taledarkside 3 months ago
Kick that little pricks butt!
PlatypusOmelette 3 months ago
From Oakland to Greece...
No Justice, No Peace...
FUCK THE POLICE!!!!!
marcelocm07 3 months ago 9
@marcelocm07 yeah, but who ya gonna call when someone steals your iPod while you're out protesting corporations (like Apple)? Certainly not the anarchist who stole it, lol.
debunker300 3 months ago
those are cops
cheechanchux 3 months ago
@61TUNER property destruction is just the physical manifestation of the peaceful demonstrators rage. this can be expected when the police are brutalizing people.
michaelglass00 3 months ago
People who make under $150,000 a year should only pay a 15% income Tax only...........Those Big Time Investors that make Millions and Billions in portfolio income should pay 35%. right now somebody who makes 150k a year has to pay 35%, that's only to the FEDERAL tax. But some super rich investors that makes millions in the stock market only pays 15% is not fair!!!!! The Tax law should to the opposite>
vsaldanas 3 months ago
There will be a candlelight vigil for the poor and innocent broken windows tomorrow at 6pm. All non-violent hippies and hipsters are welcome to join us.
UnpacifiedResistance 3 months ago
Five people breaking windows won't hurt the movement. I'd be worried about all the dumb asses who don't even know why they're there. The Anarchists are a vital piece of this movement. You can't have all peaceful protestors/hippes/hipsters. You need a little bit of chaos as well. Those Anarchists that people hate would be the first ones to save your asses when you're getting the shit kicked out of you by police. Food for thought.
ReThinkHeroic 3 months ago 24
@ReThinkHeroic the entire occupy movement is based on anarchist principles of direct democracy, mutual aid, cooperation, and voluntary association. even if the anarchists arent there physically, their ideals remain. and youre right... you couldnt have had martin luther king jr without malcolm x and the black panthers, you couldnt have gandhi without the indian militant resistance, and you cant have the occupy movement without the moderate protesters AND the militant ones like the black bloc.
michaelglass00 3 months ago
@ReThinkHeroic They're not gonna help when most of these people are paid by police to do this, or are undercover cops causing violence to disrupt the protests.
dagerm001 3 months ago
@ReThinkHeroic The Anarchists will be the reason people are getting the shit kicked out of them by police. Just as the man said in the video; they give them a reason to crack down.
repogod911 3 months ago
@repogod911 That's why they dress differently. Not only that, but the police will ALWAYS find a reason to go violent. If the protestors refuse to move they'll get pepper sprayed, beaten, or shot with a bean bag. Besides, if the police try and use Anarchists as a reason for going violent against all protestors, then I guess that just shows how corrupt they are. The police are just doing their jobs for the most part. Either way, police being forced to use those means is inevitable.
ReThinkHeroic 3 months ago
@ReThinkHeroic anarchist are just drug addict high school drop outs
poopmcscoopface 2 months ago
@ReThinkHeroic I am an OAK activist.This day of general strike involved children, elderly and working poor, not a bunch of hippies, as you parrot. I am ALL for autonomous action; I support the anarchists. But black bloc ops were ill timed on this day. But these masked kids (from Santa Cruz, not E Oak) will NOT be there to defend me in a pinch, as you say, since they consistently scatter- while the elders allow themselves arrest.This is Oakland! We know activism & when to act up.
FunKills1969 2 months ago
@ReThinkHeroic Peaceful protests are Constitutionally protected until it becomes violent. Some of the "anarchists" may very well be cops. It would be interesting to see a citizen's arrest on them. Undercover pigs can be usually spotted in groups of 2 or more, isolated from the group, wearing backpacks (supplies) and certain body language. They fit the profile.
simmagnus 2 months ago
@ReThinkHeroic Exactly. Then they were gassed at Oakland, The anarchists were there to help people that were affected
Shyguy419 1 month ago
Yea charities over seas fuck face
labau415 3 months ago
this little gay man needs to shut up.
TheBzguy 3 months ago
PS: That bank has given some $14 million to local charities. Want to bet they think twice before giving again. What a bunch of idiots. The only difference between these assholes in black with their faces hidden and the assholes in black beating up on protesters is a badge. They're all petty tyrants trying to rule through force.
lowgenius 3 months ago
This kind of childish douchebaggery is exactly why anarchy will never work. That window didn't do a damn thing. Stupid little kids throwing fits. You accomplish nothing like this and the only statement you make is that you're an ignorant asshat. OOH I BROKE A WINDOW RAWR THAT WILL TEACH THEM! Yeah, congrats asshole. You created an injury hazard and made a whole movement look bad because YOU care more about property than about people.
lowgenius 3 months ago
@lowgenius how is this showing that anarchy will never work? anarchy HAS and IS working right now all over the world. are you not familiar with the Confederacion Nacional Del Trabajo? how about the CNT during the spanish revolution that occupied all of catalonia, abolished money and organized society based on a gift economy?no? what about exarchia athens? christiana denmark? oaxaca mexico? the free territories of the ukraine? the zapatistas? how about educating yourself on anarchism first.
michaelglass00 3 months ago
@michaelglass00 - How about taking your condescension, folding it up until it's all sharp corners, and sticking it up your ass? "Anarchy" - "a state of society without government or law." CNT cannot be both a political party and an anarchist group; those things are mutually exclusive. The fact that the leadership of the group apparently can't define anarchy doesn't make them successful anarchists, it makes them illiterate.. IWA != "anarchists."
lowgenius 3 months ago
@michaelglass00 - What has "anarchism" done for Greece? Bread and circuses until they have to be propped up by the rest of the EU just to survive. EZLN is a leftist group, not anarchist. Christiana is a community with rules and law enforced by common agreement, again: not an anarchy.
And these stupid little kids in their facemasks breaking windows aren't "anarchists" either. They're obnoxious little dicks throwing a childish fit and risking the safety of innocent people in the process.
lowgenius 3 months ago
@Michaelglass00 - which, as I have said, is exactly why anarchy will not work anywhere in our lifetimes: stupid little pissant tyrants like this who just want to destroy things and break shit because actually thinking about issues and working on constructive solutions is too much like real work. Furthermore - as your own examples point out - any social movement that starts out as anarchy becomes a government (and thus not an anarchy, by definition) as it succeeds and grows, if by no other...
lowgenius 3 months ago
@Michaelglass00 - mechanism than common agreement between individuals. "We agree that killing is wrong, so let us agree that we will protect each other from those who would try to kill us." That is a law, sunshine, and as soon as the first law shows up, you no longer have an "anarchy."
How about YOU educating yourself on anarchism, instead of thinking you're qualified to teach a lifelong political activist and polisci minor the fundamentals of a concept you clearly don't understand yourself.
lowgenius 3 months ago
give them justification to crack down? they are already cracking down you moron.
michaelglass00 3 months ago
its so sad seeing these fuckers trying to protect a bank that throws families into the streets. what the fuck is wrong with you assholes? property destruction is not violence, tackling someone in the street is violence. idiots.
michaelglass00 3 months ago 3
@michaelglass00 IT,S NOT TIME FOR VIOLENCE. YET. THE PROTESTERS ARE,NT PROTECTING ANY BANKS. WE WONT LOSE PERSPECTIVE. IF VANDALISM WERE NECESSARY WE COULD MAKE A BETTER POINT HERE IN SACRAMENTO. IT,S ABOUT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION. FOR NOW?
61TUNER 3 months ago
@michaelglass00 The message should be change, not destruction. War is destruction, and you DO NOT want to make this a war, cause occupy will lose.
Thehuntingwolf 3 months ago
they ignore peaceful protest and property destruction is the physical manifestation of our fucking rage. we might alienate you reformist liberal motherfuckers but we inspire the youth that see how the system routinely destroys.
michaelglass00 3 months ago
@michaelglass00 propaganda of the deed
ComradePaine 3 months ago
"we have to be non-violent" blah blah blahh from the guy who just tackled a stranger hah
lickitysplt03 3 months ago
black masks probably some guys working for the government.
tarantado02 3 months ago
Black Bloc = cowards
CecilBDeMille 3 months ago
one person only - the rest are violent - F OWS!
SamLowerySF 3 months ago
do u really have to vandalize property, what message does that send
horsepower714 3 months ago
Many of these black clad morons are undercover cops!
terrapyn99 3 months ago
@terrapyn99 Yeah and the rest are dumb teenagers who just want to create havok for their own sick pleasure.
JanusChristIsRisen 3 months ago
they gotta be smart and figure out who is crashing their protests and citizens arrest them or expose them...
Claytron830000000000 3 months ago
It makes my blood boil seeing a few ignorant dumbasses completely ruining the whole fucking movement for everyone else. If you smash a window or start a fire at an Occupy movement, you belong in jail.
deltahotel93 3 months ago
@deltahotel93 I dont feel sorry for any banks and JESUS tore it up with the $ changers too!
huntingtonbeachify 3 months ago 12
@deltahotel93 it makes my blood boil too seeing a few ignorant dumbasses like you defending the banks.
**********KILL YOURSELF**********
UnpacifiedResistance 3 months ago
A lot of educated people in this video
keltec556 3 months ago
Zack may be right, but it is not the right way to react. Instead follow them around and tell them to be peaceful instead of fighting them. If they are police provocateurs talk to your fellow demonstrators about freezing them out of the demonstration, but if they are real Balck Bloc you'll have to let it go, and take it up in another forum. This is not the way to do it. There might be a lot of juvinile Balck Bloc'ers around, but negotiation is the path of understanding! Organize!
freechristiania 3 months ago
It may be violent to attack a building, but attacking another human being like the vigilante does is something completely different. Think about it! Who's doing the worst violence? Those smashing a few windows or those foolishly attacking other people? Who the HELL was this vigilante?
freechristiania 3 months ago
a broken window is not violence. banks are violent. the police are violent. the corporations are violent.
gandhisvision 3 months ago
Hey stop! He wasn't doing anything wrong!! Well that dumbass just broke private property so fuck him.
GarshardJeVard 3 months ago
I swear those guys are provacateaurs.
jusdubzzz 3 months ago
@jusdubzzz present evidence?
i'm inclined to disagree, having known quite a few radicals and activists who support these tactics, both from the bay area and outside. the black bloc has a pretty long history worldwide, and is well documented in books and films. check out the films Breaking the Spell and Get Rid Of Yourself.
Breaking the Spell (about the Battle of Seattle 1999)
/watch?v=Myu74VAN92Q
Get Rid Of Yourself (Genoa 2001, also more abstract philosophy)
/watch?v=DbFK2zZdpZY
anarcrustie 3 months ago
..."i dont want people shooting at cops at a protest, i dont want to get shot back at" i say to you, it is unlikely that the cops will shoot rounds at a mostly unarmed crowd, if they do, it would strengthen the cause tenth-fold. and if you are against being shot at because you are scarwed to die, then stop being such a pussy, we all gotta die sometime.
rapsta86 3 months ago
I both agree and disagree with Zach in the video. on the one hand hes right that biased news outlets will focus on these window breakers, in stead of the main narrative. On the other hand, you see all the middle eastern uprisings. They all have citizens or defected military picking up arms to combat their oppressors. if not now, then when are Americans going to do the same. We are too comfortable to pick up arms, and we wont until enough people become decimated. And to any response that says,
rapsta86 3 months ago
I just think it's funny that he tackled someone to stop it from being violent. Just saying using violence to stop violence, lol.
yeahputemontheglass 3 months ago
Time for citizens to detain these vandals and call the police and have them arrested for property destruction. Photograph their faces as they may be police agent provocateurs.
furyofbongos 3 months ago
wow, they're pretty nice to that guy considering he just attacked one of them. if they were really cops he woulda been bloodied up good.
anarcrustie 3 months ago
The Government pays little kids to wear black and smash up shit to blame it on the ENTIRE protest
riprandy318 3 months ago
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卐 20 Examples why Americans live under a dictatorship:
1.Assassinating Americans 2. Aiding Terrorism 3. Bypassing Congress 4. Controlled Media 5. Criminal Banking Cartel 6. Drug Dealing 7. Gun Running 8. Illegal Searches 9. Illegal Wiretaps 10. Illegal Wars 11. Kidnapping 12. Life In Prison After Acquittal 13. Obstructing Justice 14. Police State 15. Slave Labor 16. Torture 17. Uranium Weapons 18. War Crimes 19. War Profiteering 20. War on Organic Food and Drugs
—Ron Paul 2012 Our LAST hope
riprandy318 3 months ago
Black Bloc works with the cops to discredit peaceful protests. They've done it at every protest I've participated in since the that in San Francisco in 1991 against the first gulf war. A couple years ago, they were completely exposed in Quebec.
/watch?v=XUrtdHQySTQ
If you get a chance, get footage of their faces after they break shit and follow-up with the DA to be sure they are prosecuted. Oakland PD should be sued for damages by effected businesses.
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman have you seen the video from montebello? most of the people shouting those cops down ARE black bloc, and the two cops are rather ill-disguised. in that case, the cops were trying to shut down a series of demos before they began- other examples are different. at the 2010 g20 the black bloc marched with the peaceful crowd for a period of time, then moved away to break shit. if they had really been provocateurs they would have attacked right away, to shut down the demo before it began.
anarcrustie 3 months ago
@ghfloorman in this case the general strike was not even shut down or overshadowed by the violence, a massive day of action went off with barely a hitch and the smashing was just a small part of a broader pattern of attacks on the 1%. if this was a police action, it was an entirely ineffective one.
anarcrustie 3 months ago
lol, they chant peaceful protest after smashing windows and vandalizing stores!
Sliceofcheesewithegg 3 months ago
Peaceful cant be but so long
BigDCrushBlock 3 months ago
Good job to the guy that tackled that dumb fk.
4jiz 3 months ago 3
The window smashers are cops.
Period.
ghfloorman 3 months ago 2
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We need our unions back. Walmart Corp is in the 1%, Many corp. R in the 1%. Fight to have Unions at your workplace.
italianfighter216 3 months ago
For this ass to attack someone for committing an act of vandalism and then declare that he promotes non-violence, I can only thank him for displaying the doublethink of the left. He cannot claim to be peaceful. His best recourse as a pacifist would have been to place himself as a human shield between vandals and an object. He chose to attack. To watch this video is to watch pacifism die as an ideology
Castartanarchy 4 months ago
@Castartanarchy we all the right to sel defence. This right includes the defense of others and property. Wake up u idiot, and read the constitution. Self defense or the defense of others is not an attack. Your post was pitiful. Your opinion is faulty. Your ignorance of the law is appalling. It's jerks like you that hve allowed the country to fail.
Now go hide under your keyboard before you make an even bigger ass of yourself.
VerifiedNews 4 months ago
@VerifiedNews
Self defense? What was in danger? Property owned by banks that have foreclosed on hundreds of thousands, and threaten to foreclose on many more? The constitution? Of what value is that in this instance, and why should I care about a two-hundred year old rag I have no interest in. I am not ignorant of the law. I just don't care for it. They were not written by me, and I do not consent to them. The USA has not yet failed, but I hope it does. I see no value in it. I need not hide.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy The vandals MUST be stopped by any means necessary. They are cops or working with the cops, and are there ONLY to discredit non-violence. Tackling these scumbags is self-defense because the cops who make-up Black Bloc are the excuse the uniformed cops need to shoot Scott Olsen and others in the head.
SMASH THE POLICE-SUPPORTED BLACK BLOC!!
SMASH THE AGENT PROVOCATEURS!!
LONG LIVE THE NON-VIOLENT OWS MOVEMENT!!
ghfloorman 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ghfloorman
I thought this statement was satirical, but then I followed some other comments you've left elsewhere. Then I just thought you were trolling me. Yet with a chant as ass backward as this:
"SMASH THE POLICE-SUPPORTED BLACK BLOC!!
SMASH THE AGENT PROVOCATEURS!!
LONG LIVE THE NON-VIOLENT OWS MOVEMENT!!"
...I think the only people getting trolled are the pacifists themselves.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@ghfloorman I really dont think you realize government has failed for generations. This violence is absolutely intolerable, but more government is not the solution. Wake up.
ModernDayPhilospoher 3 months ago
@ModernDayPhilospoher
I've watched police-backed agent provocateurs, like the Black Bloc thugs currently destroying the Occupy Oakland, for decades.
Arrest them and DEMAND they be prosecuted. Make the cops prosecute the very people they send in to disrupt protests. STOP LETTING THE COP-BACKED PUNKS AND ANARCHISTS DETROY YOUR MOVEMENT!! PEACE!
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman
I refuse to believe you've been watching the Black Bloc for decades, because only 14 year olds type with all caps.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy
Whatever. Keep destroying the movement with vandalism. You pricks always have, always will.
Someday, Americans will grow-up and achieve real progress through the actions of adults. Until then, the childish punks within Black Bloc and other collections of spoiled brats will continue to completely undermine real progress.
I congratulate the "anarchists" for destroying yet another movement. Good job, assholes!
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman
You're being a real fool. Address my points. I accuse you, by your own words, of failing to live up to pacifist, non-violent standards of values and principals. You have written nothing to contradict this, so why shouldn't everyone reading your comments disregard you as an empty blow-hard? As for anarchists, some of whom are participants in the block blocs, and some like myself who are not... we haven't destroyed this project. It's still here, but if you leave, good riddance.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@ghfloorman - You're an idiot of you think this "movement" is non-violent. 5 days ago an Occupy goon from Oakland murdered a young man right outside the tent city, last week, the Occupiers threw a couple elderly ladies down a flight of stairs in DC. Add to that the dozen rapes, thousands of assaults, $3 million+ in damages, the street cart vendors who were beaten and robbed in San Diego, and the list goes on and on. How ignorant you must be to think that is peaceful. Videos are all over YouTube.
PaulPradaShow 3 months ago
@PaulPradaShow
-hey ghfloorman, i think this criticism illustrates a point well: opponents of occupy (media, cops, conservatives) will paint occupy as "violent" regardless of what they do. anything disruptive or illegal, even camping in a public park, can be labeled "violent".
really, whats the difference between smashing windows of banks and taking over public space?
both violate the law, disregard property rights, and menace the 1%'s power, but neither actually harms any living thing.
anarcrustie 3 months ago
@PaulPradaShow to actually address this point, don't be ridiculous.
rapes and assaults occur more often in your average bar scene than occupy. the world isn't a safe place, any place where people come together will have occasional violence and crime.
this could be used as an excuse to break up ANY gathering of people.
anarcrustie 3 months ago
@anarcrustie "rapes and assaults occur more often in your average bar scene than occupy." Interesting point with absolutely no basis in fact, until someone has actually counted up all the rapes and assaults in the occupy camps. I can tell you one thing that IS a fact - in the numerous Tea Party demonstrations I've attended, there weren't ANY rapes or assaults. I think it has something to do with the fact that "occupiers" behave like animals, and the Tea Party behaves themselves.
debunker300 3 months ago
@anarcrustie - "Any place where people come together will have occasional violence and crime" you say. Really? Then why is it that in nearly 3 years of Tea Party protests where there have been actually MORE people than Occupy, has there NEVER been a rape, murder, assault, or property damage? See, facts are fact, statistics are statistics, and no matter how hard you try to change them, they remain.
PaulPradaShow 3 months ago
@PaulPradaShow
Well, I would say that the Tea Party protests weren't conducive to recording the crimes of Tea Party members. Tea Party supporters only performed pickets and rallies. No occupations, which carries different consequences. In an occupation, you come to live within your protest demonstration. Since most accidents and violent acts take place around places people live, occupations are more high-risk. Tea Partiers go home and commit their crimes there.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy - That's probably the most lame answer ever. The Tea Partiers went home because they have JOBS and real life RESPONSIBILITIES to attend to unlike the criminals "occupying" private property with no respect for other people as demonstrated through their violence, or for others property, as demonstrated through their destruction. Facts are, no documented crimes at Tea Partiers, thousands of documented crimes with the Occupy movement. Facts are facts. Don't assume things.
PaulPradaShow 3 months ago
@PaulPradaShow
I tried to give a reasonable explanation for this situation. The fact is that humans experience the majority of their crimes and accidents at the place they live. Occupations create waste and tension as a result of the sudden joining of strangers in spaces not meant for habitation. Pickets are low risk and are rapid. People at these occupations may be unemployed given the economy, or employed and only able to remain at the protest for a short time. Now stop assuming yourself.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@PaulPradaShow utter bullshit.
anarcrustie 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy The window smashers are cops sent in to promote violence and the type of police response that got Scott Olsen shot in the head.
I say we hog tie anyone caught committing vandalism during our peaceful marches.
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman do it, I would hold them down rip off there masks take pictures of them, and turn them over to the cops and demand a public hearing and fallow the case. also the seem to young to be cops.
mrrossn 3 months ago
@ghfloorman
I don't think so, Tim. There are plenty of people willing to commit acts of vandalism in protest. And if you think the police are going to attack you, why not prepare for it?
youtube (dot) com/watch?v=_fSEtMgFhTw
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy
The police NEED us to vandalize and be otherwise violent. It's the excuse they need.
Those who give it to them must be neutralized and sent to fill the state's prisons so there is then no room in them for peaceful protesters like me.
You see someone invite police action by committing violence or vandalism, video tape their actions, place them under arrest, turn them over to the police. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, FOLLOW THEIR PROSECUTION. MAKE THE COPS PROSECUTE THEIR OWN.
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman
"...peaceful protesters like me. You see someone invite police action by committing violence or vandalism, video tape their actions, place them under arrest, turn them over to the police."
You really have lost all basis for calling yourself a "peaceful" protester. Even if you don't commit violence yourself, if you hire someone else (police) to do it for you, you are violent. Dictators don't commit violence either. They hire cops. You have that much in common with Gaddafi.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy
Addendum
Also, Gaddafi didn't need the rebels to become violent as an excuse for violence, and that much he has in common with cops in general. Cops don't need an excuse to be violent. That's part of their job. The entire order of law, if ignored or pushed aside, is backed by the threat of force authorized by the state. Cops are inherently violent. Police have degrees of force they can choose, but they and the military are the only institutions privileged with this choice.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy
Gaddafi? WTF?! Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that one who bought the rationale for the NATO attack on Libya would now defend the vandals now discrediting OWS. Oh well. OWS rocked until it was overtaken by spoiled punks breaking shit; punks who are easily pushed to movement-crushing violence by a few well-placed agent provocateurs. Black Bloc ruins everything. Always have, always will. Oh well.
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman
I never said I "brought" any rationale for war, but I don't really care since I never liked Gaddafi anyway, and I've never felt sorrow when someone sweeps up trash and removes it to the garbage bin of history. But cute how you're trying to change subjects to ignore both of my points on how you betray non-violent principals. 1) Police are violent without need for excuses, and 2) you are violent for hiring them. Address those points before you move on.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy
You compared me to Gaddafi, yet I'm changing the subject.
The vandals are killing the movement. That's the bottom line. I think more people need to speak out against the movement-destroying anarchist assholes. That's all I have to say. I'll only comment that the attack on Libya was complete BS built on lies. "He's killing his own people!" TOTAL bs as far as I've been able to tell.
vimeo(dot)com/24828255
Peace.
ghfloorman 3 months ago
@ghfloorman
Read the addendum below where I continued my comment. The character limit cut me off, so I had to split it. Yes, you are changing the subject. Vandals are not killing the movement. Lack of direction is killing the movement. Anarchists are not killing the movement. Anarchists, such as David Graeber, are the only reason why this is a movement. Look it up and be grateful to us. As for Gaddafi? Stop being such a whiny loser and get over it. Fuck your peace.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy cops are inherently violent in some places because the criminals (re: occutards) they come in contact with are inherently violent, such as in this video. if you don't want to be cracked in the skull by a cop with a baton, don't resist arrest after you've been caught breaking a window, stealing something that isn't yours, or otherwise breaking the law. Better still, bathe, and go get a job.
debunker300 3 months ago
@debunker300
Did you even read my comment below on why being a police officer is an inherently violent profession? Shut the fuck up, bitch. The adults are talking.
Castartanarchy 3 months ago
@Castartanarchy i'm sorry, it's hard to read something written by someone who can't type without drool splashing up from their keyboard. here's a suggestion...why don't you put on your drool bib, spaz helmet and 'tard tether, and go outside to play? Only this time, when you're making mud pies - please don't crap in the sandbox....the flies follow you home and cause problems for the whole neighborhood.
debunker300 3 months ago
@debunker300
Still can't face my criticism, so now you won't even try. Don't bother, you've already displayed that you can't or you would have by now. You lost this argument a month ago. Your pacifism lost with you. Get over it.
Castartanarchy 2 months ago
Breaking stuff like this is only good for three things:
1. Make the whole protest look bad in media
2. Instigate hostility and violent actions from police
3. Drain the insurance companies so that they will drain their customers more, to compensate.
Kenzofeis 4 months ago
You sorry ignorant people, you've created a set of conditions that is facilitating this.
CF2VP 4 months ago