Let me begin by stating that I am an out-of-the-closet bisexual. I fully support civil unions for gay couples, but I am opposed to gay marriage. The gays need to come to terms with biological reality--homosexual couples cannot reproduce without outside assistance. What they don't realize is that their childish protests have caused states to ratchet down the legal benefits of civil unions, even in states where civil unions had the same privileges as marriage.
@loqutor: That's an interesting point. Currently in NY, there is no Civil Union law - they went straight [no pun intended] for gay marriage first. This was the Governor's attempt to garner some support, as he is very unpopular, and NY is bankrupt. People are losing their jobs and homes and Gov. Nit-Wit is worried about gay marriage.
It's not just reproduction. Children do best when they are raised by a good mother AND a good father. Boys who are raised by lesbian couples have almost as many issues as boys raised by single mothers. They lack male role models, and seek them out in unsafe places like gangs.
I defy you to show me any evidence that children raised by lesbians (or gay men) are more likely to end up in gangs. If you can't, I'll assume you made it up. Which begs the question, why would you want to make up negative facts about kids raised by homosexuals?
I have a PhD in psychology, and I suspect quite a bit of common sense. Neither of these supports your claim. The American Psychological Association said there are no known negative consequences to mental health that result from being raised gay. Granted, they are prone to influence by political correctness, but your claim is a blatant lie. Psychologists disagree with you!
Common sense that being raised by lesbians lands you in gangs? Please.
The APA is NOT Psychology. It is an organization, run by humans and prone to error. Saying that the APA is Psychology is like saying that President Obama is America.
So, my disagreement with the APA's findings (and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're not making them up) invalidates my own degree in Psychology? Speak of fascism!
I believe loqutor was referring to ALL Fatherless homes and the ill effects; specifically for boys. 85% of all youths in prison today grew up in a fatherless home. To say that boys raised by lesbian parents are somehow exempt from these risks is a specious argument at best. Some lesbians understand the need for Fathers, opting to procreate with male friends who remain involved. More militantly feminist parents insist men are entirely unnecessary and abandon the male role at the sperm bank door.
It's not a specious argument, and it's not clear that it's a risk. I should say that I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't think you have any evidence. I'm agnostic on the point.
First of all, the correlation (85%) between fatherlessness and ill effects has many counter explanations: genetic correlates between fathers who don't invest in offspring and crime for one (do adoption studies show confirm?), being raised by single mothers means your more likely to be raised in poverty...
Poverty does not cause crime per se. The majority of our greatest heroes were dirt poor, and the middle class and wealthy are certainly not less prone to criminal behavior. It's about values. A person's values keep him/her from committing crime, not their bank account. Fatherless homes therefore, tend to produce more criminals; and why there are a disproportionately larger number of young black men in prison and young black women pregnant, on welfare. If you want studies, just look them up.
None of this has anything to do with marriage and everything to do with making gays feel "normal." It's all a charade. I agree with Dennis on that for sure.
That I do agree with, it probably is a mixture of genes, hormones, and external circumstances. But so what? sure the gay marriage movement is telling the wrong messages, so of course the bills aren't passing. Whats it going to take? and what does the movement really want? federal and state rights, okay, I'm all for that. but I really don't care what the union is called; marriage, civil union, it's all the same to me. if the contracts are identical, it shouldn't matter, right? ideas?
The issue is largely over a word; an extremely important one that should remain constant, not subject to redefinition that would change the perception of it. Elton John said, "Marriage is for heterosexuals - We have Civil Unions." We need to remove the few remaining legal impediments preventing gay couples from mutual legal arrangements, But we also need to re-assert the rights of Clergy to opt out of officiating gay weddings, without threat of penalty, if it conflicts with their own conscience.
Let me begin by stating that I am an out-of-the-closet bisexual. I fully support civil unions for gay couples, but I am opposed to gay marriage. The gays need to come to terms with biological reality--homosexual couples cannot reproduce without outside assistance. What they don't realize is that their childish protests have caused states to ratchet down the legal benefits of civil unions, even in states where civil unions had the same privileges as marriage.
loqutor 2 years ago
@loqutor: That's an interesting point. Currently in NY, there is no Civil Union law - they went straight [no pun intended] for gay marriage first. This was the Governor's attempt to garner some support, as he is very unpopular, and NY is bankrupt. People are losing their jobs and homes and Gov. Nit-Wit is worried about gay marriage.
haypenny 2 years ago
@loqutor your point would only be valid with this hidden assumption:
marriage should be reserved for relationships that, typically, can create viable offspring.
You have to defend that assumption if you want to have an argument.
darwinkilledgod 2 years ago
It's not just reproduction. Children do best when they are raised by a good mother AND a good father. Boys who are raised by lesbian couples have almost as many issues as boys raised by single mothers. They lack male role models, and seek them out in unsafe places like gangs.
loqutor 2 years ago
I defy you to show me any evidence that children raised by lesbians (or gay men) are more likely to end up in gangs. If you can't, I'll assume you made it up. Which begs the question, why would you want to make up negative facts about kids raised by homosexuals?
darwinkilledgod 2 years ago
It's psychology combined with common sense. You ever heard of either of those things?
loqutor 2 years ago
I have a PhD in psychology, and I suspect quite a bit of common sense. Neither of these supports your claim. The American Psychological Association said there are no known negative consequences to mental health that result from being raised gay. Granted, they are prone to influence by political correctness, but your claim is a blatant lie. Psychologists disagree with you!
Common sense that being raised by lesbians lands you in gangs? Please.
darwinkilledgod 2 years ago
The APA is NOT Psychology. It is an organization, run by humans and prone to error. Saying that the APA is Psychology is like saying that President Obama is America.
So, my disagreement with the APA's findings (and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're not making them up) invalidates my own degree in Psychology? Speak of fascism!
loqutor 2 years ago
I believe loqutor was referring to ALL Fatherless homes and the ill effects; specifically for boys. 85% of all youths in prison today grew up in a fatherless home. To say that boys raised by lesbian parents are somehow exempt from these risks is a specious argument at best. Some lesbians understand the need for Fathers, opting to procreate with male friends who remain involved. More militantly feminist parents insist men are entirely unnecessary and abandon the male role at the sperm bank door.
haypenny 2 years ago
It's not a specious argument, and it's not clear that it's a risk. I should say that I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't think you have any evidence. I'm agnostic on the point.
First of all, the correlation (85%) between fatherlessness and ill effects has many counter explanations: genetic correlates between fathers who don't invest in offspring and crime for one (do adoption studies show confirm?), being raised by single mothers means your more likely to be raised in poverty...
darwinkilledgod 2 years ago
Poverty does not cause crime per se. The majority of our greatest heroes were dirt poor, and the middle class and wealthy are certainly not less prone to criminal behavior. It's about values. A person's values keep him/her from committing crime, not their bank account. Fatherless homes therefore, tend to produce more criminals; and why there are a disproportionately larger number of young black men in prison and young black women pregnant, on welfare. If you want studies, just look them up.
haypenny 2 years ago
None of this has anything to do with marriage and everything to do with making gays feel "normal." It's all a charade. I agree with Dennis on that for sure.
pinegrove33 2 years ago
That I do agree with, it probably is a mixture of genes, hormones, and external circumstances. But so what? sure the gay marriage movement is telling the wrong messages, so of course the bills aren't passing. Whats it going to take? and what does the movement really want? federal and state rights, okay, I'm all for that. but I really don't care what the union is called; marriage, civil union, it's all the same to me. if the contracts are identical, it shouldn't matter, right? ideas?
jshweid 2 years ago
The issue is largely over a word; an extremely important one that should remain constant, not subject to redefinition that would change the perception of it. Elton John said, "Marriage is for heterosexuals - We have Civil Unions." We need to remove the few remaining legal impediments preventing gay couples from mutual legal arrangements, But we also need to re-assert the rights of Clergy to opt out of officiating gay weddings, without threat of penalty, if it conflicts with their own conscience.
haypenny 2 years ago