"Comment removed" = "Indeed. As am I." No. I'm afraid that it's quite obvious what your initial intention was: to give somebody here the impression that you know what you're talking about, when this is clearly not the case.
@John11inch There is clearly a mistake at 2:48. Any trained ear can tell that the suspended 7th quarter back flip note that is meant to be played there was butchered. On a side note, the uploader needs to take a midol and stfu. Cheers ;)
I see that you're a fan of both Mike Huckabee and 30 Seconds to Mars. I'm more than willing to take a Midol if you promise to take some strychnine, which you probably already should have.
Actually, I think Cage would have very much liked this comment - not as a joke, but in a serious context, as a matter of compositional intent and results. A piece based on random variables that includes a chance of total silence among the many possibilities of outcomes is something that Cage would have appreciated..
Well, it's not intended as meaningful in any way. There is nothing to understand, only sounds to hear. The sounds, once they are made, cannot be unrelated, because they exist in relation to each other. There is no meaning, only sounds in relation to other sounds. Unless someone undertakes to make those particular sounds, those relationships won't exist. If you don't like it, enjoy the silence after. If you hear the silence, then you have understood as much as can be understood.
i found your comment really interesting, but i'm not sure i agree, i'm not sure music of any variety can exist in isolation, the musician, the medium or venue you listen to it, the people that are around you, and of course the notes themselves will effect what that music means at that specific time. I don't think anything is completely without meaning.
@meltcrash but when we try to explain what music means, we're at a loss. The Flight of the Valkeries clearly doesn't mean the same thing in that classic Full Metal Jacket scene as it did to the premiere's audience awaiting the curtain to rise. The same could be said of Handel's Hallelujah Chorus, originally meant to depict the Apocalypse.
Exactly; you don't understand. I mean, you've just personified my post precisely; you insist of trying to judge this music by the same, old tricks that have been around since the beginning of music itself which is futile because you're too stupid to realize that this is a *different* language, and too *lazy* to bother trying to learn it. [cont]
Your opinions have the value of someone who doesn't speak English criticizing Ulysses; any "point" you can make is not germane, and falls into equivalent triviality of "this book is too big" or "I don't like the art on the cover". Did you even read my post? You have literally painted yourself as the most perfect example of the idiot I described, and in direct response to it.
@John11inch It's a roundabout way of asking what you find so appealing about this music, as a means of figuring out what drives you to insult people for merely having a second opinion.
Well why don't you start asking your questions in a direct way, first of all, and second of all, can we not ask the most insanely broad questions in the world? That is equivalent to me asking you "why do you like music of the Romantic Era". If you can answer that question within youtube's 500 character limit your answer is insufficient. [cont]
Also, A- you insult the music I upload, so you are insulting my musical taste, i.e. insulting me; I am entirely within a logical and ethical right to do so. B- I am not "just insulting you"; if you want a label to wrap your vindication of being able to dismiss what I say, and that's the one you want to delude yourself with, go for it, but I can't answer a question that is grounded in your delusion, and not reality.
@John11inch We already established that insulting the music wasn't my intent, but if you insist, that's your own misinterpretation. I've explained why this music doesn't speak. However, this feels much like arguing religion. Your defense is only demeaning insults to support my "delusion." With that in mind, it's entirely possible that your sole purpose is to be able to maintain (unnecessary) superiority against anyone who has a second opinion without fully understanding the music yourself.
Everyone except you has already established that insulting this music *was* your intent. Do you want me to go through your quotes and find some highlights? Talk about delusional. Your question *cannot be answered* because any answer I give would be subjective, just like your reasons for disliking it, even if they weren't misguided, upon further investigation and increasing your understanding would *still* be subjective. I mean, I *can* answer your question but it would be pointless to.
This is the equivalent of taking unrelated words and forming them into an artistic visual painting, then asking someone to read it aloud as if it were meaningful poetry. It takes a lot of coaxing into the acquired taste to be able to appreciate this kind of lack in communication.
No. This is the equivalent of writing poetry that is way above your head, but because you refuse to admit you simply 'don't get it', you have to vindicate your ignorance by telling yourself that it's actually all that crap that you just wrote.
@John11inch I understand it's much easier to insult me based on your assumptions. However, I have a request. Tell me what I don't get about this music.
@John11inch I apologize if my comment appears to have a negative connotation. I have no desire to insult any defenseless music. You haven't yet told me what I don't get about this piece though.
I can only go off of your previous comments, but it seems to me that you have a grave misunderstanding of how one listens to music. The human, aural relationship to music composed before 1900 is based in the variations between major and minor, between chromatic and melodic, in octaves or chords, in P or F; people can get stuck in this, and then come and try to listen to this music expecting to be able to relate to it by the same parameters. This is a different language, not a lesser one.
People here who can't understand Cage and then try to justify their ignorance by pointing out punctuation errors, please stay out of conversations about art. You are just part of the problem.
I'm a "john Cage People" I'm tired of people commented on how the thing was composed or how difficult it is to play. What Sultan did with these sonatas was beautiful. And the scores are beautiful to boot. Some of my favorite Cage
I'm a "john Cage People" I'm tired of people commented on how the thing was composed or how difficult it is to play. What Sultan did with these sonatas was beautiful. And the scores are beautiful to boot. Some of my favorite Cage
I'm a "john Cage People" I'm tired of people commented on how the thing was composed or how difficult it is to play. What Sultan did with sonata's is beautiful. And the scores are beautiful to boot.
Hey @ERmdPlsX4 i see that you dont get it, it doesnt matter how he written it cause every composer has his own principals to get a new composition, thats his way, so what, if you got the idea thats all other is a piece of cake.
We live in a post-John Cage world There's no getting around it. Cage's point was that art is meaningless play. His was a means of removing pretension and self-indulgence from art.
It is not as if he was unaware of what he was doing and the effects of such artistry (or lack thereof). At a benefit concert celebrating Cage's work a new piece was played (an electronic piece I believe); at his own concert his new work was met with, amidst the lukewarm cheering, boos and heckling.
Do it. Do it and become as famous as John Cage. You can do it; you're just as good. Then when everyone tells you your music is shit and John Cage is a genius, maybe you'll realize there's a different between the John Cage you're incapable of understanding and the John Cage people who know what they're talking about love.
Don't you see that there are no 'John Cage people' but you? This is not a piece, this is just the outcome of a bored man trying everything to gain some desperate glory... John Cage is not a genious, neither are you. Your punctuation lacks academic skills, so does your knowledge and taste regarding music. Pity you are so bad tempered.
Yes. What a shame I am not a "genious" and my punctuation lacksacademicskillssodoesrunonsentence, unlike yours. And, "bad tempered" would be incorrect; it would either be bad-tempered or badly tempered. Not to mention you actually have two, other run on sentences. Good job, "genious."
the Etude concpet is extended to conceiving these pieces in your mind, you need to read 4 staffs, so your concentration is many times accelerated;past what you normally would do, so there, that is the Etude idea, testing yourself in complexity;
well, actually, a major point with the series of etudes (freeman, boreales, australes), which is also present in some of the piano music, is testing out the limits of complexity and possibility--he was excited about the idea of overcoming the impossible as sortof a political/social metaphor. always an optimist at heart.
Academic conceptualization can not be the raison d'etre of that which exists for the purpose of, by definition, the precise, technical, and physical execution. Such could be attributal to the modus operandi to which the composer structured the piece on a macro level, but there must be a clearly defined set of dynamics to which the composer executed to make it an "etude"; anything else is simply philosophy for the sake of.
and, i think "prepared" is probably an inaccurate term--it's just that certain low keys are wedged down to cause resonance of harmonics/sympathetic vibrations, yes? thanks for posting these recordings, they're rather hard to come by.
i don't know about this piece particularly, but generally with the star chart pieces (also including the freeman etudes and atlas eclipticalis) he used transparencies with staves which he placed over the star charts, using chance procedures to determine density of notes (thus determining how many of the stars he would actually trace over as notes) and sometimes other variables..
@foxconnect
"Comment removed" = "Indeed. As am I." No. I'm afraid that it's quite obvious what your initial intention was: to give somebody here the impression that you know what you're talking about, when this is clearly not the case.
John11inch 7 months ago
@foxconnect
There is no mistake at 2:48. The person is a troll.
John11inch 7 months ago
@John11inch There is clearly a mistake at 2:48. Any trained ear can tell that the suspended 7th quarter back flip note that is meant to be played there was butchered. On a side note, the uploader needs to take a midol and stfu. Cheers ;)
kas0161 7 months ago
@kas0161
I see that you're a fan of both Mike Huckabee and 30 Seconds to Mars. I'm more than willing to take a Midol if you promise to take some strychnine, which you probably already should have.
John11inch 7 months ago
Eh. Boring. I'm sure it's fun to play, but it's not much to listen to.
MrTanookiMario 7 months ago
@yleae xD that might explain it.
cnmaster01 8 months ago
Most people don't get the point of these études...
rosabellis 8 months ago
@SealedSage
Did your mother notice the mistake when she failed to miscarry you?
John11inch 10 months ago
@John11inch Slightly harsh there sir, tone it down a little bit :P brill upload though! Cage was truly one of the best =)
Jshaw1ful 7 months ago
tried to follow along with the score, but I got lost at 0:01
cnmaster01 10 months ago
This is seriously good music
thedrumbum1990 1 year ago
@Laudan08
Actually, I think Cage would have very much liked this comment - not as a joke, but in a serious context, as a matter of compositional intent and results. A piece based on random variables that includes a chance of total silence among the many possibilities of outcomes is something that Cage would have appreciated..
PianoplayerPaul 1 year ago
I couldn't watch the video because I was too busy laughing at the comments the user posted.
randomclam898889 1 year ago 4
Well, it's not intended as meaningful in any way. There is nothing to understand, only sounds to hear. The sounds, once they are made, cannot be unrelated, because they exist in relation to each other. There is no meaning, only sounds in relation to other sounds. Unless someone undertakes to make those particular sounds, those relationships won't exist. If you don't like it, enjoy the silence after. If you hear the silence, then you have understood as much as can be understood.
frankentenor 1 year ago
@frankentenor
i found your comment really interesting, but i'm not sure i agree, i'm not sure music of any variety can exist in isolation, the musician, the medium or venue you listen to it, the people that are around you, and of course the notes themselves will effect what that music means at that specific time. I don't think anything is completely without meaning.
meltcrash 1 year ago
@meltcrash but when we try to explain what music means, we're at a loss. The Flight of the Valkeries clearly doesn't mean the same thing in that classic Full Metal Jacket scene as it did to the premiere's audience awaiting the curtain to rise. The same could be said of Handel's Hallelujah Chorus, originally meant to depict the Apocalypse.
cnmaster01 8 months ago
@cnmaster01
Nice angle. I would say I agree.
meltcrash 8 months ago
Comment removed
frankentenor 1 year ago
!!!
patricioriv 1 year ago
Exactly; you don't understand. I mean, you've just personified my post precisely; you insist of trying to judge this music by the same, old tricks that have been around since the beginning of music itself which is futile because you're too stupid to realize that this is a *different* language, and too *lazy* to bother trying to learn it. [cont]
John11inch 1 year ago
Your opinions have the value of someone who doesn't speak English criticizing Ulysses; any "point" you can make is not germane, and falls into equivalent triviality of "this book is too big" or "I don't like the art on the cover". Did you even read my post? You have literally painted yourself as the most perfect example of the idiot I described, and in direct response to it.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch So since you understand the language, what is it saying? It doesn't do me any good if you're just insulting me.
some1namedjeff 1 year ago
What does a Bach fugue "say"? These terms are subjective, pointless and irrelevant.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch It's a roundabout way of asking what you find so appealing about this music, as a means of figuring out what drives you to insult people for merely having a second opinion.
some1namedjeff 1 year ago
Well why don't you start asking your questions in a direct way, first of all, and second of all, can we not ask the most insanely broad questions in the world? That is equivalent to me asking you "why do you like music of the Romantic Era". If you can answer that question within youtube's 500 character limit your answer is insufficient. [cont]
John11inch 1 year ago
Also, A- you insult the music I upload, so you are insulting my musical taste, i.e. insulting me; I am entirely within a logical and ethical right to do so. B- I am not "just insulting you"; if you want a label to wrap your vindication of being able to dismiss what I say, and that's the one you want to delude yourself with, go for it, but I can't answer a question that is grounded in your delusion, and not reality.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch We already established that insulting the music wasn't my intent, but if you insist, that's your own misinterpretation. I've explained why this music doesn't speak. However, this feels much like arguing religion. Your defense is only demeaning insults to support my "delusion." With that in mind, it's entirely possible that your sole purpose is to be able to maintain (unnecessary) superiority against anyone who has a second opinion without fully understanding the music yourself.
some1namedjeff 1 year ago
Everyone except you has already established that insulting this music *was* your intent. Do you want me to go through your quotes and find some highlights? Talk about delusional. Your question *cannot be answered* because any answer I give would be subjective, just like your reasons for disliking it, even if they weren't misguided, upon further investigation and increasing your understanding would *still* be subjective. I mean, I *can* answer your question but it would be pointless to.
John11inch 1 year ago
This is the equivalent of taking unrelated words and forming them into an artistic visual painting, then asking someone to read it aloud as if it were meaningful poetry. It takes a lot of coaxing into the acquired taste to be able to appreciate this kind of lack in communication.
some1namedjeff 1 year ago
No. This is the equivalent of writing poetry that is way above your head, but because you refuse to admit you simply 'don't get it', you have to vindicate your ignorance by telling yourself that it's actually all that crap that you just wrote.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch I understand it's much easier to insult me based on your assumptions. However, I have a request. Tell me what I don't get about this music.
some1namedjeff 1 year ago
Not as easy as it is to insult music, which can't defend itself, while backing it up with a total of 0 argument.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch I apologize if my comment appears to have a negative connotation. I have no desire to insult any defenseless music. You haven't yet told me what I don't get about this piece though.
some1namedjeff 1 year ago
I can only go off of your previous comments, but it seems to me that you have a grave misunderstanding of how one listens to music. The human, aural relationship to music composed before 1900 is based in the variations between major and minor, between chromatic and melodic, in octaves or chords, in P or F; people can get stuck in this, and then come and try to listen to this music expecting to be able to relate to it by the same parameters. This is a different language, not a lesser one.
John11inch 1 year ago
People here who can't understand Cage and then try to justify their ignorance by pointing out punctuation errors, please stay out of conversations about art. You are just part of the problem.
MsChampionRuby 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'm a "john Cage People" I'm tired of people commented on how the thing was composed or how difficult it is to play. What Sultan did with these sonatas was beautiful. And the scores are beautiful to boot. Some of my favorite Cage
Berliozboy 1 year ago
I'm a "john Cage People" I'm tired of people commented on how the thing was composed or how difficult it is to play. What Sultan did with these sonatas was beautiful. And the scores are beautiful to boot. Some of my favorite Cage
Berliozboy 1 year ago
I'm a "john Cage People" I'm tired of people commented on how the thing was composed or how difficult it is to play. What Sultan did with sonata's is beautiful. And the scores are beautiful to boot.
Berliozboy 1 year ago
Hey @ERmdPlsX4 i see that you dont get it, it doesnt matter how he written it cause every composer has his own principals to get a new composition, thats his way, so what, if you got the idea thats all other is a piece of cake.
tilcheksaksofonist 1 year ago
my cat plays better...
SrNutritivo 1 year ago
Really? What an interesting comment!
I haven't deleted that, identical comment at least ten thousand times since I've been on this site. How original!
John11inch 1 year ago
We live in a post-John Cage world There's no getting around it. Cage's point was that art is meaningless play. His was a means of removing pretension and self-indulgence from art.
It is not as if he was unaware of what he was doing and the effects of such artistry (or lack thereof). At a benefit concert celebrating Cage's work a new piece was played (an electronic piece I believe); at his own concert his new work was met with, amidst the lukewarm cheering, boos and heckling.
albbster 1 year ago
Learn to use commas, form an argument, and then, maybe, your opinion will be worth something.
John11inch 1 year ago
I don't think you have to worry yourself with getting too caught up in an "intelelctual" movement.
John11inch 1 year ago
this is crap even I can compose
dalecampbl7 1 year ago
Do it. Do it and become as famous as John Cage. You can do it; you're just as good. Then when everyone tells you your music is shit and John Cage is a genius, maybe you'll realize there's a different between the John Cage you're incapable of understanding and the John Cage people who know what they're talking about love.
Fucking retard.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch
Don't you see that there are no 'John Cage people' but you? This is not a piece, this is just the outcome of a bored man trying everything to gain some desperate glory... John Cage is not a genious, neither are you. Your punctuation lacks academic skills, so does your knowledge and taste regarding music. Pity you are so bad tempered.
MathijsGiltjes1993 1 year ago
Yes. What a shame I am not a "genious" and my punctuation lacksacademicskillssodoesrunonsentence, unlike yours. And, "bad tempered" would be incorrect; it would either be bad-tempered or badly tempered. Not to mention you actually have two, other run on sentences. Good job, "genious."
John11inch 1 year ago 10
@John11inch LMAOOOO you better snapppp!!! YEssss
Violinkid05 1 year ago
I'm not sure what "snapppp" implies, but it sounds like something I'm not interested in doing.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch Meaning you went off on that person, it was funny, figure of speech
Violinkid05 1 year ago
@dalecampbl7 No you can't.
principalbass 1 year ago
the incredible piecing harmonic at approx 58"! wow!
CoreOgg 2 years ago
Let me be brief, given your apparent hostility towards linguistic longevity.
Who writes a paper with his/her mouth? Talk about precision.
John11inch 3 years ago
the Etude concpet is extended to conceiving these pieces in your mind, you need to read 4 staffs, so your concentration is many times accelerated;past what you normally would do, so there, that is the Etude idea, testing yourself in complexity;
herma57 3 years ago
No. I already explained what these studies are in.
John11inch 3 years ago
well, actually, a major point with the series of etudes (freeman, boreales, australes), which is also present in some of the piano music, is testing out the limits of complexity and possibility--he was excited about the idea of overcoming the impossible as sortof a political/social metaphor. always an optimist at heart.
minirausch 3 years ago
Academic conceptualization can not be the raison d'etre of that which exists for the purpose of, by definition, the precise, technical, and physical execution. Such could be attributal to the modus operandi to which the composer structured the piece on a macro level, but there must be a clearly defined set of dynamics to which the composer executed to make it an "etude"; anything else is simply philosophy for the sake of.
John11inch 3 years ago
and, i think "prepared" is probably an inaccurate term--it's just that certain low keys are wedged down to cause resonance of harmonics/sympathetic vibrations, yes? thanks for posting these recordings, they're rather hard to come by.
minirausch 3 years ago
i don't know about this piece particularly, but generally with the star chart pieces (also including the freeman etudes and atlas eclipticalis) he used transparencies with staves which he placed over the star charts, using chance procedures to determine density of notes (thus determining how many of the stars he would actually trace over as notes) and sometimes other variables..
minirausch 3 years ago
What technique is this supposed to teach or develop? I love John Cage.
ownage1810 3 years ago
They're really not etudes in the definitive sense, although I suppose one could make the argument that they stress hand independence.
John11inch 3 years ago
How are these etudes based on star charts?
ownage1810 3 years ago