We really do need to change our system. It sucks when people in prison get better treatment, than our poor. Also medical bills are the number one reason people file for bankruptcy. In America it is sad when we say how will you pay for this first, rather than how can we help you get better.
One thing we did right in the past 15-20 years was to give America full support in the battle against al-Qaeda/Taliban after the Twin Towers disaster. Costing 400 UK lives and £ billions add that to the lives lost and billions spent in a less justified war in Iraq gives one reason why we ain't got no dosh. Nothing to do with the NHS. Healthcare = France, No1. UK 18th. US 37th. Please see "The U.S. Healthcare System in International Context:" and "We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp. I thank you.
Healthcare ratings = France, No1. UK 18th. US 37th. Please see "The U.S. Healthcare System in International Context:" and "We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp. I thank you.
@davijeph Wow. You really have learned to enjoy the bars of your cage, haven't you? Regardless of where the U.S. is on any W.H.O. chart, the fact remains that even now, we in the U.S. are still FREER than you -- even now, we can still turn away from becoming like you -- even now, WE haven't been conditioned to like (let alone WANT) the bars, the chains, the guns pressed against our temples "for our own good, of course", the way you have.
@davijeph You must know that you're system is running out of time and money. The E.U. welfare states are imploding, their citizenry is rioting as the austerity cuts begin, and you are either going to have to learn to take responsibility for yourselves or you are going to eat each other alive -- hopefully not literally, but I wouldn't bet on it not happening.
@davijeph The ONLY thing I can point to in the last 15-20 years that you Brits have done right is that you DIDN'T subordinate yourself and your currency to the E.U.: you still have the pound, and so you still have some degree of autonomy. You're still fucking crazy, but at least you won't get sucked down the tubes quite the way that France and Germany will be by the other E.U. states like Spain, Greece, etc. There may yet still be something left of you when all is said and done.
The Obama administration's lawless, and reckless behavior including the ignoring of federal rules in order to resell more than 2,000 firearms as part of their "Fast and Furious" gun running operation has thus far resulted in hundreds of murders -- including that of U.S. Border agent Brian A. Terrry.
Haha I didn't read everything you had to say. I barely read any of it. I was just saying relax. Your gettingall worked up commenting on a video on YouTube. Talk to your friends about this stuff, talk to your co-workers, talk to someone inperson who can give you immediate answers and have a conversation with. This will never be a form of conversation only a way of communication
@ineedtogetsomesleep9 "Your gettingall worked up commenting on a video on YouTube. " Dude, I do this to RELAX -- tearing down statist arguments is enjoyable in the extreme; I might even call it a duty. So there's a degree of lag between individual postings -- doesn't matter if it's face-to-face (instantaneous), from Earth to the Moon (about 1.5 seconds), or postings on a YouTube video (God only knows). The message still gets out there.
@LambdaKore Hi I'm back this time it's business "tearing down statist arguments is enjoyable in the extreme". Except of course it is you and your primitive nonsense being torn down so far in all the arguments. History proves that societies that rely only on charity and philanthropy to supply the poor, sick, mental and physically impaired with the help they need will be societies where the bulk of the poor, sick, mental and physically impaired live short, painful degraded lives.
@LambdaKore Only with the growth of those democratic institutions within Nations like the UK, US France, Canada over the past 100 years that have allowed true freedom for millions of people who would without laws, rules and regulations made and enforced by those liberal democratic institutions would still live in extreme hardship and deprivation. Thats all your getting from me enough time wasted talking you. Go find the Wiz of Oz he might give you a brain or perhaps more important a heart.
@davijeph Wow. Again with the classic liberal "argument" that anyone who disagrees with you MUST do so ONLY because they're less moral or intelligent than you. Does it inconvenience you much, lugging around all that sand to bury your head in whenever someone tells you inconvenient truths?
@davijeph Get a clue, stupid: no system is perfect, but some systems are more perfect than others -- namely, the free market. And even in these more-perfect systems, there will ALWAYS be individuals who fall through the cracks for one reason or another. The difference between you and I is how we choose to address these unfortunates. I choose to do it in ways that maximize individual freedom; you choose to do it in ways that diminish freedom.
@davijeph Your system is imploding under its own unsustainability -- the riots in London over the proposed tuition increases are proof of that. Whether for good intentions or ill (my money's on ill), your government has forced its way into nearly every aspect of your life and taught you not only to like it, but to want more and more of it, despite what it's clearly doing to you.
@davijeph Incredibly, even as the money starts to run out and the austerity cuts kick in, you have the gall to insist that other countries follow your example -- that you're somehow nobler for the fact that you've made every single Briton a junkie hooked on the smack being peddled by your own government.
@davijeph There's even a "fashionable" (if that's the word) psychosis going around in England right now, where otherwise healthy people are electing to have themselves surgically maimed (mostly by limb amputation, but there are other examples), and it's all paid for courtesy of your healthcare system, your oh so vaunted UHC. You are paying to mutilate your own neighbors, whether you want to or not. And you have the balls to call ME heartless, you sick twisted fuck?
@ineedtogetsomesleep9 "Haha I didn't read everything you had to say. I barely read any of it." There's this neat little saying that goes "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." It works for ideas, too. You MIGHT want to read into the discussion first to see what ideas have already been proposed, which have survived, and which have failed, before you start regurgitating the failed ideas. It'll save everyone lots of time.
Here's something to consider: even if a simple majority of people DID advocate for something that WAS a proven good, is using government force the ideal method of providing it, or should you try other non-force-based methods first? Since the use of force tends to diminish individual freedom, wealth, and opportunities, and that free-market-based options tend to increase them, why would you ever advocate for the use of force? BECAUSE STATISTS ARE INTOXICATED BY THE USE OF FORCE.
People relax and remember that our country is one big pie and we all have to bake it. I think a lot of people are forgetting the very basics, saving a few more lives and making it a little easier for your neighbor to live a little longer. What is that worth to you? Maybe nothing to you, but to me and a lot of Americans out there it means a lot.
@ineedtogetsomesleep9 "What is that worth to you? Maybe nothing to you, but to me and a lot of Americans out there it means a lot." Dude, I've already pointed that that populist argument for doing ANYTHING is not a guarantee of that thing's WORTHINESS. I've also pointed out the damaging effects on individual liberty of the "diffuse costs, concentrated benefits" argument. You're gonna have to do better than that.
Ohhh, those evil profits. Damn them and their capitalist agendas. Maybe I should suck on the teet of the government, yeah they do a great job. Why didn't you include in your argument that Government already runs healthcare for Native Americans as part of a treaty? Could it be because they have a saying, "Do not get sick past June" because they don't have any money left, that's where that came from. Do you really want the same people who run Social Security running healthcare?
The bulk of those "Little Socialist Kiddies" are now spending a long time rotting in our shitty little socialist prisons which we can't afford to maintain either. BTW hows Bernard Madoff (a fine example of American Libertarian free market business ethics getting on)? I see you're reverted back too your normal shitty childish language. BTW, US number 37th, France number 1 in healthcare. Boom Boom. Up the revolution.
@smoochy999 Going to see the film next week, on the whole Mrs T did a great deal of good for the country. Mainly in curtailing the power of out of control trade unions but she did do some very silly things like allowing the banks to run themselves. The results of which we are now paying for. Mrs T reign was like the vicars egg "good in parts". BTW who famously said "the NHS is safe in our hands" yep that good old socialist Mrs T. Just to remind you France rated No 1in healthcare UK18th, US 37th
@smoochy999 PS. One other thing personally I like many Brits don't like the idea showing Mrs T suffering with dementia while the old bird is still alive. Bad taste, just not cricket don't you know.
I would say that you are a Loser because you are jealous that We the Free People of the USA are still Free, while you suffer with your Shitty Socialism! You Ignorant Britt Twit!!!!
"The discussion is about your advocating having the U.S. government stick a gun to the head of every single American citizen and telling them that they WILL participate in government-run healthcare, whether they want to or not, "for their own good, of course". Understand?" Not really no. Its about "Why We** Need Government-Run Universal Socialized Health Insurance" (** the We being the US). Given the like/dislikes it looks as if more approve of that idea than not.
@davijeph People want LOTS of things that are bad for them: booze, drugs, unprotected sex with multiple partners -- and ObamaCare. The fact that many people want these things DOESN'T mean that you should use force, waste resources, and reduce individual freedom to provide them at taxpayer expense. If things were judged solely on the merits of their popularity, then you can justify ANY intrusion into anyone's life, at any time, for any reason, as long as a simple majority supports it.
The bulk of US citizens are asking for change in their medical system. If that is not a fact then what the pluck is all this discussion about. Citizens with UHC's are mostly supportive of there own healthcare systems which vary in the way they work from mostly socialised to mostly privatised. No matter what system is run in UHC countries all have access to Dr's who supply the required healthcare not by government dictat but by a free Dr working to help a free citizen in a free society
@davijeph Your claim of "45 million uninsured" has already been proven to be inflated by about 50%, to include people who -- for one reason or another -- choose NOT to purchase healthcare coverage (that is, they made an informed decision NOT to buy a service and to assume the risk of paying for an illness or injury out-of-pocket). Your true chronically uninsured is actually closer to 25 million -- out of 350 million, that's not so bad -- like 1 in 14.
@davijeph And -- AGAIN -- why advocate for a one-size-fits-all government solution that fucks things up for EVERYONE (mandated plans, increased bureaucracy, misallocation of resources, limited choice, increased taxes, etc., etc., etc.) to cover the 1-in-14 who can't or won't provide their own healthcare coverage?
@davijeph And -- AGAIN -- the answer is that you WANT the government in control, for the simple fact that liberals view government as tool to do unto others, whether they want it or not. Liberals like the idea of government using force on others, because they believe they'll be the ones controlling that force, or that they'll at least be unaffected by it as others will be. It's always a rude shock when that force comes back to bite them, too.
@davijeph "The bulk of US citizens are asking for change in their medical system." Perhaps they are -- but should that change come from themselves and their doctors, or should it be forced upon them from above by a bunch of ivory-tower snobs who've never run so much as a hotdog cart? Who've never had to maintain an inventory or a payroll? By a bunch of double-dealing insiders making incestuous deals behind closed doors, promises of openness to the contrary? Hmm, let me think...
@davijeph "The bulk of US citizens are asking for change in their medical system. If that is not a fact then what the pluck is all this discussion about." The discussion is about your advocating having the U.S. government stick a gun to the head of every single American citizen and telling them that they WILL participate in government-run healthcare, whether they want to or not, "for their own good, of course". Understand?
After all that as been said on this site these FACTS remain the US is rated 37th in overall healthcare. The US pays twice that of countries with UHC's. 60% of US bankruptcies have a connection with heath cost (people in countries with UHC's?Zero. 45million US citizens lack even basic medical insurance many millions more have basic cover. US child death rate is higher than most UHC's countries and people live longer in most UHC' countries.
@davijeph -37th,37th,37th.....WTF, you sound like a broken record dickhead. Everyone who's interested in blowing a hole in that bullshit with a sawed off shotgun, go back a few weeks. Also, go check out the Mass universal healthcare for the state and how fucked up it is relative to the rest of the country. 17% higher costs.
Eat shit you fabian socialist!
Healthcare is a personal responsibility...end of story.
"There's an interesting quirk to human psychology: during the Black Plague, for instance, there are stories of those who were sick forcing themselves onto healthy individuals, trying to infect them, too.". Their is also the story of "the plague of Eyam Village" look it up (I live in the general area).
@Osambasucks2 Why? When YOU take your knowledge from Beck who you admire so much (Plonker). If Beck can be allowed to give an interview with Daniel Hannan (far right Anglo/Irish/Peruvian, inherited multi-millionaire who as never used the NHS on the subject of the British NHS then others are free to try and put a more balance view. Again and it should be very simple even for you to understand its not about government control its about EVERY citizen having access to affordable healthcare.
@davijeph - what a fuckin lame lymie. Beck has more intelligence flush down the toilet when he is done, than a bunch of you fucking fabian socialists over there in in UK while brainstorming.
Just saw "Iron Lady", a great movie about Margaret Thatcher. That woman sure had some balls to tell all you socialists to go pound salt. She is one of my new hero's!
Anyone want to go see how history repeats itself, and lessons to be learned from it, go see Iron Lady. WOW! De ja vue!
@Osambasucks2 The fact I have been able to knock down every view and comment from you and those other idiot friends of yours must be rally pissing you of otherwise why do you keep making up statements I have not made to try and score points (very Beck)? Given the results of the like /dislike boxes it would seem many of your own country men disagree with you to. Rock on youtube.
You have been Spewing your Socialist Censored Bullshit Lies!!!!
Go and worry about all your Little Socialist Kiddies that have been Rioting in your Country because your Government can't Afford all your Failed Socialist Programs!!!!
We the People are 1 step closer to ridding this Country of a Marxist Tyrant!
So maybe, just maybe Judge Malihi read the final words of Jablonski’s hyper arrogant, “we don’t believe your little state or your silly hearing are worth our time” letter for the purpose of reading into the record the fact that it was indeed the decision of Obama and his attorney to NOT attend and to NOT honor legal subpoenas.
Yep all Osambas men come tumbling down again...LOL!!!!!
DOJ OFFICIAL TO PLEAD THE 5TH
In what is widely viewed as an admission of complicity in criminal conduct, Department of Justice official Patrick Cunningham plans to plead the 5th Amendment in response to his Congressional subpoena on Fast & Furious.
I live in a country where the government run´s the healthcare. It´s not good, and it is a wealthy country. We spend more money on healthcare than the us per capita and the hospitals are falling apart. The equipment is often older than me. And sure it´s free but you often have to wait 3-12 months i agonizing pain for treatment for some thing that is weary small. And yes there are no profits but the overhead is enormous.
I’ve seen people argue against socialized medicine while covered by gov socialized medicine after retiring from the armed forces possibly even for a disability (which would make them eligible for other socialized government programs which they are probably taking advantage of). I know one personally who argues against socialism while living in public housing and on SS, Medicaid etc. Go figure :)
Keep your government hands off my Social Security seems to be the battle cry of the stupid:o)
The USA doesn't need government-provided insurance, it needs an NHS like we have over in Britain. The only thing that is putting them in the way are a few right-wing, ignorant republicans who are too stuck up about their apparently wonderful constitution to give it a go
"Socialized medicine" is NOT a magical mantra that will solve all your problems. When no one is directly responsible for the cost of the goods and services they consume, they have no incentive to make good choices and every incentive to consume as much of those goods and services as possible -- or at least to the extent that the army of bureaucrats running the system will allow them. You think the overhead in the private healthcare sector is bad, wait 'til it becomes a government program.
@LambdaKore You are right about one thing "Socialized medicine" is NOT a magical mantra that will solve all your problems." Obviously it will not anymore than the private system/ socialist system the US users. Heath care could use the entire resources of the US and still not perfect.What you should be trying to achieve is a secure cost effective medical system for all while for those with the means and choice should they so choose pay top dollars for top service.
@davijeph "What you should be trying to achieve is a secure cost effective medical system for all while for those with the means and choice should they so choose pay top dollars for top service." Which you will NOT have through a government-run program. They are notorious for failing to live up to their mandates, they rarely (if ever) live within their originally-planned budgets, and the people running these programs are rarely (if ever) held personally accountable for their actions.
@LambdaKore IF what I say is so boring and unoriginal why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it? Am I advocating Government free issue to all citizens of "booze, drugs, unprotected sex with multiple partners" or even "ObamaCare"? No. All democratically elected representatives are accountable for their actions ask Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. Instead of attacking me and those that would support some of my views and values why not stop a minute and question yours?
@davijeph "IF what I say is so boring and unoriginal why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it?" How does it go? "All that is required for evil to triumph is that men of good will do nothing." Dude, I will ALWAYS call out stupidity and evil, any time, any place. Likely you're not actually evil, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome -- you've been a captive for too long and you've learned to like it.
@LambdaKore "so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome" Can I by that token suggest you of a suffering sociopathic disorder based on the fact you obviously have no empathy for those less fortunate than themselves.
@davijeph I'm simply SLOPPING over with sympathy for the less fortunate -- what we differ on is how we provide for them. There are ways to cover those suffering from chronic or catastrophic illnesses in ways that DON'T involve limiting EVERYONES choices or forcing them into a one-size-fits-all solution at the point of a gun.
@davijeph Once again, you invoke the typical liberal defense that anyone who disagrees with you does so because of a moral or intellectual failing -- the thought that your ideas might be bad ideas not worthy of implementing NEVER occurs to you. Ask yourself this: would people be MORE free or LESS free if your ideas were implemented? If you're honest, you won't like the answer.
@davijeph "Am I advocating Government free issue to all citizens of "booze, drugs, unprotected sex with multiple partners" or even "ObamaCare"? No." Not at the moment, no. But if you can force one thing -- no matter how demonstrably bad -- on the people because a simple majority calls for it, then you can do ANYTHING as long as a simple majority calls for it. It gets even worse when no one is held accountable for their bad decisions -- that's a road to butchery.
@LambdaKore "I've questioned my views, and the simple answer is that MINE maximize individual freedom, wealth, and opportunity, and YOURS diminish them." Well I agree yours is a simple answer unfortunately you seem not to understand the question.
@davijeph What's not to understand? Statists like you believe that the only way to resolve the problems in the U.S. healthcare system is to invoke government force to resolve a problem largely caused by previous government intrusions, regardless of its detrimental effect on individual freedom, wealth, and opportunities. That pretty much sums it up.
@davijeph "All democratically elected representatives are accountable for their actions ask Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. " What about appointed administrators? Can't vote 'em out -- best you can do is hope to vote out the party that put them in place, and even then, there's no guarantee of getting them out. And most have some degree of immunity. Watch how they're trying to shield Eric Holder from the fallout for "Fast And Furious", if you want to see what I mean.
@LambdaKore "What about appointed administrators? Can't vote 'em out --" True but thats even more true for people employed by private companies. Who do I trust more people working in private industry or civil servants well on balance neither.
@davijeph "Instead of attacking me and those that would support some of my views and values why not stop a minute and question yours?" I've questioned my views, and the simple answer is that MINE maximize individual freedom, wealth, and opportunity, and YOURS diminish them.
@davijeph Besides, don't you WANT to test your ideas? If you build a bridge, wouldn't you test it to see how heavy a load it can bear? If you build a plane, wouldn't you test it to see if it was safe to fly? Same thing with ideas. Surely, someone as confident and self-righteous as you MUST have thought out every little wrinkle and unintended consequence of the thing you're advocating -- here's your chance to prove it's not a lot of hot air and bullshit.
@LambdaKore I've been testing my ideas (which I agree are not original but then neither are yours)for over 60 years. I one thing I do know for certain there is no "simple" answer to the question what makes a secure worthwhile society. I assume you agree we both live in societies? Freedom for the individual? Certainly but freedom to do what exactly. Giving you total freedom might make my life hell and Vice versa. Who decides what freedoms are given to whom? The one with the money or biggest gun
@davijeph Again, conservatives view the government as a tool -- a shield to safeguard their lives and property -- a necessary evil to be invoked as sparingly and as judiciously as possible. Liberals view government as tool to make others do as they wish, and they nearly ALWAYS see dissent and opposition as proof that their ideas are right and maybe even just. I view force as something to be used as a last resort; you see it as the preferred tool to implement policy.
@davijeph Face it, dude: you're terrified at the idea of having to take care of yourself. The thought of having to be responsible for yourself has you crapping in your pants. You love the idea of the social safety net for a variety of reasons, but the crap you spout about "the social contract" and the "greater good" is just code language that allows to you avoid admitting that you can't or don't want to be responsible for yourself.
@LambdaKore Me? I settle for the tried and trusted method of living in a Liberal democracy. I might not like every government I lived with and I might agreed with every policy of the government makes but nobodies come up with a workable alternative either from the left or right. Give the people a chance to have open and honest discourse and it is very seldom they go far wrong. Thats why elected governments are so important you go vote the buggers out. Now you give me a workable alternative?
@davijeph "nobodies come up with a workable alternative either from the left or right" Don't give me that crap. There are lots of solutions, but people LOVE the idea of using governmental force to implement the solution that provides them with maximum personal benefit at minimum personal cost (i.e., at government [read "taxpayer"] expense). Diffuse costs, concentrated benefits. It's intoxicating, and it's as corrosive to individual freedom as acid is to flesh.
@LambdaKore A quickie "nobodies come up with a workable alternative either from the left or right" Don't give me that crap. There are lots of solutions," Give me one that would replace liberal democracy.
@davijeph "Give the people a chance to have open and honest discourse and it is very seldom they go far wrong. " Which is why the ObamaCare discussions were held behind closed doors without the benefit of cameras, right? That "honest discussion" is why Nancy Pelosi said that "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it", right? Right...
@davijeph "Now you give me a workable alternative? " How about a small limited government with constitutional constraints that actually respects and defends the sovereign rights of the individual? That recognizes that each citizen know best how to live his or her life -- better than any number of bureaucrats -- with a minimum of governmental interference?
@davijeph Nothing you've put up here is new or compelling -- it's not even all that interesting. For the most part, the failings of the U.S. healthcare system are a result of TOO MUCH government intrusion -- and instead of admitting or realizing that, the people who called for that intrusion now call for MORE government intrusion to solve the very problem they created in the first place.
If someone isn't a troll they might want to google the following phrase:
Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice
After reading the article that this will take you to you could dispute it by sending for the MENSA home IQ test. That should give you an accurate indication of your true IQ. I'm betting you'll be very surprised.
You honestly believe that the government would manage our healthcare system and dollars better than individuals participating in the free market? That's either baseless idealism or despicable stupidity on your part. The government already has too much power over your life, and you want to give them even more? And not just over your own life -- where the cost of failure could be limited to affect just yourself -- but also over the lives of hundreds of millions of other people? Unbelievable...
@LambdaKore It's neither "baseless idealism or despicable stupidity". Based on the fact that the US is rated 37th in heath care yes paying for is costs about twice that of another country that users a UHC system would seem to be based on "baseless idealism or despicable stupidity". The fact that in a lot of these countries healthcare systems is not government controlled simply to a greater or lesser degree financed by all citizens for the benefit of all citizens including the rich.
@davijeph So if we're so far down the list, why is the U.S. still the destination of choice for world leaders to come to for THEIR medical treatment? For example, wasn't it just last year where one of Canada's ministers came here for heart surgery, rather than enjoy Canada's state-provided services? Again, dude -- if you want to surrender control of your OWN life to the Feds, you go for it, but keep your fucking hands off everyone else's life.
@LambdaKore World leaders have the money to pay for your top-end medical care. America does have excellent top end medicine but that is not what the bulk of any nations population is in need of most of the time. Had an heart attack? Can you pay for the long term medical care and prescriptions needed afterwards without going bankrupt? Health care is about ALL citizens having access to 100% treatments 100%of the time regardless of ability to pay. US 37th France No 1
@davijeph There are some things -- like the police, the courts, and the military -- for which we all pay and for which we all receive services or benefits. These are necessary evils, for which there are constitutional provisions, and the concept was not meant to be expanded into the realm of personal consumer choices. And healthcare is most certainly that.
@LambdaKore Consumer choice is great but choice is only a reality for those who have the money. I have not mentioned the profit motive but since you mention it why do you think your system costs so much yet gives so little to so many? You have a vast army of bureaucrats working in you private insurance companies none of which supply you with so much as an Aspirin. The wealthy will always be able to afford "the best" the problem with the US systems to many can afford nothing or very little.
@LambdaKore With an estimated 45 million uninsured Americans, some 500,000 trekked overseas last year for medical treatment, according to the National Coalition on Health Care". "NEWS FROM CAMBRIDGE HEALTH ALLIANCE. June 4, 2009. Over 60 Percent of All US Bankruptcies Linked to Medical Problems. New research finds most victims are middle-class and have health insurance". If a system is proven to supply overall a higher rated cheaper healthcare than.
@davijeph Yes -- it's called "medical tourism". There ARE people willing to travel to other countries, willing to pay whatever it takes, and willing to take the risk for drugs and treatments not available here, because those goods and services have not been approved by the FDA. Also, hospitals are not free to compete, but must charge what the government tells them to, at rates the government sets. That's the GOVERNMENT limiting choice, not the free market.
@LambdaKore Nobody is saying if you have the money and choose to spend it on private medicine you cannot do so. UHC’s ensure no citizen goes without health cover this must be good for the heath of your population and even ensures that the rich will never be ruined when highly expensive and long term heath cost hit your family. To use your constitution as an excuse for not supplying it to all your citizens means there is something wrong with your constitution or theirs something wrong with you.
@davijeph The main thrust of your argument is that giving the government control of the healthcare industry will remove the profit motive (which you seem to regard as evil or unjust, despite the goods and services it makes available to you), which you think means more dollars devoted to actual healthcare services. That's a false assumption. The government is notorious for failing to stick to a budget, and for robbing one program to pay for another -- this would be no exception.
@davijeph As it is right now (for the most part), you make the choices for your health care, and you pay the cost, whether in the plan you use, the lifestyle you live, and the services you use -- and that's how it should be. Why are you so eager to have a bearueacrat tell you what plan you can have, what services you'll get, and when you'll get them? Think it's bad now? Just wait.
@davijeph "World leaders have the money to pay for your top-end medical care." So in other words, do as they say, but not as they do, right? In the real world, we call that being a hypocrite. If the system is so good it needs to be imposed on the masses by force of law, surely it ought to be good enough for the people who write and enforce the laws, shouldn't it? That should have been your first flag that socialized medicine was a boon-doggle.
@davijeph One more thing: it's a false argument (i.e., a "misrepresentation", or what I like to call a "lie") to use the word "choice" when the appropriate word is "force". In your scenario, you claim that we would "choose" to have the government manage the plan for us, when in fact we would be FORCED by law -- say, ObamaCare -- to participate. Remember his promise that we could keep our plans and our doctors? Doesn't seem to holding up too well at the moment.
@davijeph "Health care is about ALL citizens having access to 100% treatments 100%of the time regardless of ability to pay" Says who? You? And who pays for it? When you pay your own bills, I don't have the right to complain about the choices you make or how you spend your own money. When I'm forced by law to pay your bills, you can bet I'll let you spend as little money as possible -- and the government will be no exception. Ever heard of squeezing blood from a stone?
@LambdaKore You seem like many Libertarians to have no sense of the wider community . Saying "you are happy to give to the charity of your choice" why should I be forced to give to help everyone"? The answer is simple you are a member of a society that society has basic HUMAN standards of right or wrong. You are responsible for your neighbour and your neighbour is responsible for you not because some scrap of paper tells you what you can or cannot do but because your shared humanity demands it.
@davijeph HA HA HA HA! What an overly-developed sense of responsibility. Dude, if you want to be your brother's keeper, do it with your own money. You're free to ask others to chip in, but trying to compel them in order to prove your moral superiority is chicken-shit. You don't prove how compassionate and caring you are by using the government's guns to force others to do as you want them to do -- that's called being a statist thug, and most people will resent that very much.
@davijeph Actually, it reveals a desire to have your own lifestyle subsidized at others expense, couched in a a language of brotherhood -- how original. Let's force EVERYONE to contribute -- under threat of law -- so that YOU can enjoy goods and services you would otherwise have to pay for yourself, and all at subsidized rates. There's nothing noble about invoking the government to commit fraud and theft on your behalf -- even a mugger has the balls to commit his crimes himself.
@LambdaKore My life style as never been subsided by the tax payer. No matter how you chose to belittle "government" the US system of healthcare is the most expensive in the world but is rated a lowly 37th. If a "free market" means a medical/welfare system without tax based subsidies how would those with no or low income get welfare/medical help (don't tell me charity your welfare bill alone is $953 billion)? If UHC's are bad ideas why does every advanced liberal democratic nation use them?
@davijeph The simple answer is that there is already TOO MUCH government involvement in healthcare, and your "solution" is to simply increase the role of government in healthcare -- which is like adding on more leeches while you're bleeding to death.
@davijeph The government sets the policies and procedures, dictates what goods and services (via the FDA) you can or can't have, and pays doctors and hospitals (via Medicaid or Medicare) below-market reimbursement, which discourages them from accepting low-income patients (who end up relying on more expensive emergency room treatment later, rather than receiving preventative treatment from their own doctors earlier and cheaper -- if they seek treatment at all).
@davijeph The government is already the single biggest impediment between you and your doctor and the goods and services you want and need, so why would you seek to increase the government's role in that relationship? Either because you grossly misunderstand cause-and-effect, or because you know exactly what you're doing and all of this is by design.
@davijeph Here's something to consider: conservatives view the role of government as a shield to protect themselves and their property from the depredations of others, a necessary evil to be invoked as sparingly as possible. Liberals tend to view government as a tool to do things for you or (more often the case) to you (usually phrased in terms like "for your own good" -- whether you want it or not).
@davijeph To add insult to injury, you then want to be applauded as wise and just and brilliant for invoking government force to compel your stupid greedy neighbors (as liberals tend to view anyone who disagrees with them) into something you want, regardless of whether your neighbors want it also. The degree to which they resist you is usually the degree to which you are convinced that you are just and right in forcing yourself upon them.
@LambdaKore I have no wish to be applauded for anything if I did I would hardly choose the anonymity of youtube to seek it. My solution to healthcare is to try and supply all citizens with comprehensive healthcare at affordable cost to the nation.I don't actually care if it is government run it or its privately run. Try not to keep putting people into simple stereotypes am I a liberal a conservative a socialist a capitalist? Yes, to all none of those things are mutually exclusive of the other .
@davijeph "I don't actually care if it is government run it or its privately run. " Which is completely at odds to the video you posted -- it's in the title, for God's sake. You WANT the government in control -- WHY you would want them in control is your issue. Maybe you have a mistaken belief in the role of government as a provider rather than a protector, or maybe you have a mistaken assumption about how efficient the government would be (which would be laughable if not so tragic).
@davijeph "I have no wish to be applauded for anything if I did " Then you're unique as a liberal. Some are in-your-face about their belief in their own intellectual or moral superiority, and some are not, but all of them are utterly convinced of their own brilliance and of how the perfect the world would be if only they could get the government to force people to live the way they want them to live. Like I said, liberals view government as a tool to force others to do as they wish.
@davijeph "My solution to healthcare is to try and supply all citizens with comprehensive healthcare at affordable cost to the nation." And by handing the system over to the government for the sake of a relative minority, you're going to destroy -- or at least cripple -- the free market healthcare system that was working for the majority. That's not a solution, that's insanity.
@davijeph Again, if you're seriously concerned about the relative minority who suffer catastrophic health issues or are chronically uninsured, why not advocate for a system to cover them, rather than force EVERYONE into the same one-size-fits-all government solution, whether they want it or not? Simple answer: because you honestly just don't give a shit about people, period. For liberals, it really is all about the power and control.
@LambdaKore You are I assume a citizen of the US? You choose to except being a citizen of that Nation (if you have not freely chosen to be why do you choose to live their).If you are their by your own freewill nobody is forcing you to do anything but in excepting your citizenship you must except that there are rights, duties and privileges that come with that citizenship. Those rights, duties and privileges have been given to you by the will of a free democratic peoples not "force"
@davijeph The rights, duties, and responsibilities of citizenship have certain well-defined constitutional requirements and limits -- which is more than can be said for ObamaCare. Such an over-reach of governmental authority opens the door wide open to a whole host of intrusions into the most intimate details of the private lives of every single citizen, and I am eagerly awaiting the Supreme Court to review it.
@davijeph "Those rights, duties and privileges have been given to you by the will of a free democratic peoples not "force" " Here's a shocking little eye-opener for you: ALL GOVERNMENT ACTIONS ARE ULTIMATELY BACKED BY A GUN. That's about as forceful as you can get. Resist something -- anything -- long enough, and eventually the guns WILL come out. So the use of government force is something best done as sparingly and as judiciously as possible, and not for populist feeding frenzies.
@LambdaKore Again UHC's do not force every one into the same one-size fits all what is does ensure is everyone as an healthcare suit to wear. Your views and values are wrong but at least you are more articulate than old Osambasucks2
Yep you Ignorant Britt Twit, I see that you don't want the American people to see the Truth!
Yep I see that Osambas Green Jobs back Fired on him again....LOL!!!!
Yep Insane Hussein Osamba took 700 Million of our Dollars and invested it in to his Bullshit Green Jobs, but now We the People have lost all that Money because where Osamba put it all 3 of those Company's have gone Bankrupted!!!!!
Yep Osamba Fuck the American People once again!!!!!
@davijeph "Your views and values are wrong " And again, it's the classic liberal argument that anyone who disagrees with you does so because they're simply not intelligent or moral enough to compete with you -- it certainly couldn't be because your ideas involve the use of force, the theft of property, and the reduction of individual choice.
@davijeph "all what is does ensure is everyone as an healthcare suit to wear." And what about the people who already have coverage? Many employers are dropping their plans (many of which offered better coverage) ahead of ObamaCare, and many are going to get dinged badly because their plans don't conform to the dictates of ObamaCare. Again, that's the GOVERNMENT limiting choice and artificially dictating prices, NOT THE FREE MARKET. THAT'S why we don't want them involved.
@davijeph Here's a thought: if you TRULY believe that the government is wise enough, benevolent enough, and efficient enough to dictate the most intimate details of your healthcare, why not hand complete control over every other aspect of your life to a bunch of bureaucrats? How much schooling you can have and what type, what job you'll have, where you can live, who you can marry (or if you can marry), how many kids you can have (or if you're allowed to have any), and on and on?
@davijeph I mean, surely if a bunch of uninvested disinterested bureaucrats are capable of telling you where you what treatments you can have and when and what it'll cost, rather than you and your doctor making those decisions, surely those same bureaucrats are capable of making all the other important choices in your life better than you, right? Free yourself from the burden of thought and choice and responsibility. Doesn't that sound nice?
@davijeph Because if the government CAN force itself into the most intimate aspects of your healthcare, then -- really -- where CAN'T it force itself eventually? If you cannot hold them to a line and say "this far and no further", then how far will they go? History says "all the way". Whether it's by the iron fist of a dictator like Hitler or Stalin, or by means of a slow smothering nanny-state like you have in Britain, the effect is the same, dude: total loss of individual freedom.
@LambdaKore What makes you think I think the "government" is wise enough, benevolent enough etc to dictate the most intimate details of my healthcare? I don't I leave that to my own chosen Dr and any medical experts he might choose (not government) to deal with any medical problems I might have. I'm afraid you're being a little ridiculous if you think in my nanny state (it's not by the way) the government tells us who to marry , etc.
@davijeph "What makes you think I think the "government" is wise enough, benevolent enough etc to dictate the most intimate details of my healthcare? " What do you think will happen once a bureaucrat is in charge of healthcare, instead of you and your doctor? Whether that's your intention or not, the power do decide WILL shift out of your hands and into theirs.
@davijeph I lived in England for over a year back in the early '90s, and I was appalled at what I saw and experienced, at what you Brits had become and were willing to submit to; twenty years later, and things have only gotten worse. I'm sure the Jews didn't believe they'd be rounded up in ghettos -- until it happened. I'm sure they didn't believe they'd be forced onto cattle cars -- until it happened. I'm sure they didn't believe a lot of things would happen -- until they happened.
@davijeph "I'm afraid you're being a little ridiculous if you think in my nanny state (it's not by the way) the government tells us who to marry , etc. " The point is, once you open the door to a government intrusion into your life, where does it end? If you're not willing to draw a line here and stand on it, where will you? Wasn't it Churchill who said that those who trade freedom for security will have neither, and deserve neither?
@LambdaKore Unfortunately you are guilty of the very things you accuse me of. Are you not trying for "applause" trying to show your own "brilliance" when someone disagrees with you? Your arguments are being pulled to bits one by one not because of my "brilliance" (I'm very at best a very ordinary fellow) but because your views and understanding of what is truth have been blinded by black propaganda by those who make money from your health system.
@davijeph "Unfortunately you are guilty of the very things you accuse me of. Are you not trying for "applause" trying to show your own "brilliance" when someone disagrees with you? " No, I have no illusion of converting you to my way of thinking -- I'm simply having fun illustrating the nihilistic nature of liberalism and the danger of your willingness to submit everyone to governmental control.
@davijeph "black propaganda by those who make money from your health system" Again, the typical liberal disdain for and misunderstanding of the profit motive. What a surprise. It's not magical fairies or prayers that make the goods and services you want and need available to you: it's individuals pursuing profits that do, whether in food (farmers), housing (contractors), transportation (car manufacturers), education (teachers), or healthcare (doctors and drug companies).
@LambdaKore I have no problem with private healthcare I have a problem when people cannot get healthcare or go bankrupt paying for it. Japan, Australia, UK, Canada, Norway etc are just as free as you (if not in some cases freer) yet all those and many others supply higher rated healthcare at far lower cost than in the land of the free. Who is controlling your life? The government or some multi-billion dollar company? I think we can go no further or we will soon be insulting each other.By By.
@davijeph "I have a problem when people cannot get healthcare or go bankrupt paying for it." So -- AGAIN -- why ruin the ENTIRE free market health care system for EVERYBODY, rather than advocate for a system to cover those who can't provide for themselves? Answer: because liberals are intoxicated by power -- the power to compel others through governmental force.
@LambdaKore -great job kicking davijephs pathetic little fabian socialist ass. Been fun watching you beat him into submission. Soon he will start the non-personal-directed replies.....like he is talking to himself. Must make him feel important or something.
@LambdaKore - your welcome, I and my colleagues have just about seen them all. Every time I poke gaping holes in this fabian socialist brit twits arguements, he pours on more pathetic crap. Kicked the asshole and canadian friends asses for months. Been waiting for that idiot to chime in.....maybe he changed names again. Was deathtodictators, randinriola, and theyself that I know of.
Good grief!! These socialists....especially the foreigners....must be brutally dealt with. Only way!
@smoochy999 Well, like I said, there's that funny little kink to human psychology: people living in oppression look out and see other people living free, and rather than try to end the misery at home, they try instead to spread their misery abroad. I guess it's easier to tear other people down to their level than to build themselves up. I gotta go to work. Have a good one...
Yep all these Socialists from other Countries are trying to tell us how we should live, I thought that we all lived in America so we could live the way that we wanted to????
I served My Country because I believe in My Country and it was My Choice!
In most European countries you have to serve or Move out!!!!
These Britt's in their Nanny State want us to live just like them, hell that is what this Country fought a War to stop! But they don't believe in all of that!
@Osambasucks2 Like I said, I spent a year in England (about an hour South of London) during the early 1990s. I can't begin to describe how grey and dull and depressing I found the place -- it was like stepping into a black-and-white photograph of Soviet Russia from the early 1970s. All they do is drink and fuck -- not a bad thing in itself, but -- moderation, man. It must really suck when you've lost your focus in life, your sense of identity and pride. I felt so sorry for them.
@LambdaKore Well Britain is not exactly famous for its warm blue seas and bright sunshine (why the hell do you thing my ancestors where so keen to build empires in places like India, Africa and Australia. It's bloody freezing outside it the moment with a sky looking like a solid sheet of lead) regarding the drinking and fucking bit sorry you make it sound like Desperate Housewives without the sunshine.
@davijeph Or it could be that you've had the life and soul choked out of you by the slow, constant encroachment of a smothering nanny-state. You used to rule the world; now you're a nation of has-beens, and everything I've seen and experienced there tells me that you know it and hate it -- yet your answer is to keep going back for more of the same poison that's killing you.
@davijeph The problems with England are largely the result of decades of constant encroachments of government into every aspect of your lives, with the consequent decline in individual freedom, responsibility, initiative, etc., etc., etc. You know this, and you probably hate it, but like a woman in an abusive relationship, you keep going back for more, thinking that you can't do better or that you don't deserve better. BUT YOU STILL DO NOTHING TO FIX THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM.
@davijeph You're like a bird in a cage, looking out and seeing other birds flying free, bewildered and even resentful that they don't rely on someone to constantly provide them with food and water and fresh newspaper. You sing; you preen; and you're provided for; but you're also at the mercy of the provider every single day of your life. It never occurs to you to open the cage and escape to live life on your own terms. You LIKE being taken care of -- you may even feel you deserve it.
@LambdaKore "You LIKE being taken care of -- you may even feel you deserve it. No your wrong again". Since leaving school at 15 I have always made my own way in life along the way hopefully have some good times. Now retired live in my own home owe nothing to nobody and I even feed the wildlife birds and all. See you are still posting but for the moment I must be away things to do.
@davijeph Just because you don't see and feel the bars of your cage every single moment of your life doesn't mean that they're not there. You've been so conditioned to them that you probably don't even see them AS bars anymore. I've lived under your system, dude; I've seen what it's done to your country, and I resent like Hell your wanting to ship it over here.
@davijeph There's an interesting quirk to human psychology: during the Black Plague, for instance, there are stories of those who were sick forcing themselves onto healthy individuals, trying to infect them, too. Muslim women -- who've lived their entire lives being subjugated, humiliated, and controlled -- actively participate in the subjugation of other Muslim women attempting to break free. Statists like you are no different when they see other people living free, or attempting to.
@davijeph And of course, you've chosen to invoke the classic liberal argument that anyone who disagrees with you does so because they're not smart enough to understand the issues, or they're morally inferior to you, or -- should those charges fail to stick -- because they're racist or sexist or whatever. It never occurs to you that they disagree with you and oppose your ideas BECAUSE THEY"RE BAD IDEAS. They involve use of force, the theft of property, and the reduction of choice.
@davijeph And assuming that your concern for the few who do suffer catastrophic medical crisises or are chronically uninsured IS genuine, then why not create a safety net to cover those few unfortunates that DOESN'T involve screwing things up for EVERYONE? Just because ONE guy can't or won't take care of himself DOESN'T mean you hand EVERYONE in town over to the control of an army of indifferent bureaucratic thugs. That just brings everyone down to a common level of misery -- not good.
Well you Ignorant Britt Twit, We the Free People of the USA Kicked your Ignorant Britt Asses out of here twice so we wouldn't have to do what you wanted us to do!!!!!
So you can keep your Shitty Socialism and We the Free People of the USA will keep Our Freedom Ass Hole!!!!!!
The only reason Bush Jnr added $4,000,000,000 to the US's national debt (not to mention 110,000 dead) was because he wanted to give his dad the present of Saddam's head on a plate. The reason why Pres' Obama HAD TO increase that debt was if he had not the entire US banking and finance system would have collapsed and with it vast swaths of US business (not to mention the rest of the world). Obviously some dumb nuts in the US would rather have Hoovervilles than a sound banking system.
Oh Looky an Ignorant Britt Twit is trying to Bullshit America!!!!!
Too bad for you, you Ignorant Britt Twit, but all of us here in America know the Truth and can see that you are just Spewing your Socialist Censored Bullshit Lies!!!!!
You can certainly tell the Fox News Glenn Beck viewers. It's very entertaining reading their posts. The right wing propaganda mission has been an incredible success.
Excellent video by the way. Just what I need for my right wing friends with Fox induced brain freeze.
Yep Fox News is the #1 News Station all across America, We the People are tired of your Socialist Censored Liberal Lying News! So we all watched Mr Beck show us all the Truth backed by Fact! Something that you will never see in the Lamestream Liberal Lying Media!!!!
Yep the Lying Marxist Dictator said that he would Create Jobs, so Osamba sent our Tax Dollars & our Jobs to South America & his Commie Buddy George Soros!!!!!
Just to let every one know. I am an American and no we are not all like the crazy Obamasucks2 guy. Most of us want socialized healthcare and realize it's merits. It may not be perfect but no system is. that being said there are more pros to it than cons, and one day we will have it here in the USA. And on that day even the looney right wingers can have healthcare also because "WE THE PEOPLE" do accept them and their right to free speach.
Yep you are an Ignorant Brain Washed Libtard, and We the People are not all as Stupid and Ignorant like you Ass Hole!!!!
Yep the FACT is that 70% of Americans said NO to Osambas Socialist Health Care you Lying Libtard Ass Hole!!!!!
And We the People don't want a Lying Marxist Dictator, that is why We the People will throw Insane Hussein Osamba out on his Lying Marxist Black Ass you Lying Libtard Ass Hole!!!!!
@Osambasucks2 Well according to a cbs poll "The AP poll, conducted May 5-9, shows that 54 percent of Americans approve of Mr. Obama's handling of health care, while 46 percent disapprove." But aside from that issue i still don't see why you name call every one who you dissagree with. And the comment about throwing him out on his "Black Ass" actually makes your argument more puerile and archaic. If you want to have a civil discores thats fine but not when your so contemptible.
Well according to the Fox Poll 70% (Jan 5-12) of Americans do not want Osambas Shitty Socialist Health Care, and Fox News is the #1 News Station all across America!!! And I see that you have OLD NEWS!!!!
So you can Believe in what your Socialist Censored Liberal Lying News is telling you, and the Rest of America will Believe in the Truth!!!!!
And My Comment was throw Insane Hussein Osamba out on his LYING MARXIST BLACK ASS you Ignorant Ass Hole!!!!!
IF you actually took away all the verbal diarrhoea and childish language from what Osambasucks2 says he does not actually say anything. Theirs nothing there, no discussion, no ideas, no intelligence just mindless racial abuse and schoolboy insults.
If you had to buy fire insurance and police services, your taxes would be much lower. Plus, the service would be competitive with other businesses, and it would therefore be a much better service.
@DjZephyThe problem with a “free market” while we can choose and tailor our needs to our income when thinking of buying a car, washing m/c etc we all require 100% Police, fire and healthcare services giving almost unlimited treatment costs over a lifetime for ourselves and our families. The US system shows not just the poor but even the averagely wealthy could never afford to pay the premiums required. All but the very wealthy need UHC’s to back up the cost of healthcare.
IF you actually took away all the verbal diarrhoea and childish language from what Osambasucks2 says he does not actually say anything. Theirs nothing there, no discussion, no ideas, no intelligence just mindless racial abuse and schoolboy insults.
Wrong Moron, I just told Osamba, what would he call himself after Osamba had called Bush Irresponsible for adding 4 Trillion Dollars to the National debt! Now that Osamba has add 5 Trillion Dollars to the National; Debt in just 3 Years!!!!!
We really do need to change our system. It sucks when people in prison get better treatment, than our poor. Also medical bills are the number one reason people file for bankruptcy. In America it is sad when we say how will you pay for this first, rather than how can we help you get better.
4lifemrobama 9 hours ago
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One thing we did right in the past 15-20 years was to give America full support in the battle against al-Qaeda/Taliban after the Twin Towers disaster. Costing 400 UK lives and £ billions add that to the lives lost and billions spent in a less justified war in Iraq gives one reason why we ain't got no dosh. Nothing to do with the NHS. Healthcare = France, No1. UK 18th. US 37th. Please see "The U.S. Healthcare System in International Context:" and "We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp. I thank you.
davijeph 22 hours ago
Healthcare ratings = France, No1. UK 18th. US 37th. Please see "The U.S. Healthcare System in International Context:" and "We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp. I thank you.
davijeph 1 day ago
@davijeph Wow. You really have learned to enjoy the bars of your cage, haven't you? Regardless of where the U.S. is on any W.H.O. chart, the fact remains that even now, we in the U.S. are still FREER than you -- even now, we can still turn away from becoming like you -- even now, WE haven't been conditioned to like (let alone WANT) the bars, the chains, the guns pressed against our temples "for our own good, of course", the way you have.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph You must know that you're system is running out of time and money. The E.U. welfare states are imploding, their citizenry is rioting as the austerity cuts begin, and you are either going to have to learn to take responsibility for yourselves or you are going to eat each other alive -- hopefully not literally, but I wouldn't bet on it not happening.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph The ONLY thing I can point to in the last 15-20 years that you Brits have done right is that you DIDN'T subordinate yourself and your currency to the E.U.: you still have the pound, and so you still have some degree of autonomy. You're still fucking crazy, but at least you won't get sucked down the tubes quite the way that France and Germany will be by the other E.U. states like Spain, Greece, etc. There may yet still be something left of you when all is said and done.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
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@davijeph
Yep time to string him up!!!!
The Obama administration's lawless, and reckless behavior including the ignoring of federal rules in order to resell more than 2,000 firearms as part of their "Fast and Furious" gun running operation has thus far resulted in hundreds of murders -- including that of U.S. Border agent Brian A. Terrry.
Osambasucks2 18 hours ago
Haha I didn't read everything you had to say. I barely read any of it. I was just saying relax. Your gettingall worked up commenting on a video on YouTube. Talk to your friends about this stuff, talk to your co-workers, talk to someone inperson who can give you immediate answers and have a conversation with. This will never be a form of conversation only a way of communication
ineedtogetsomesleep9 1 day ago
@ineedtogetsomesleep9 "Your gettingall worked up commenting on a video on YouTube. " Dude, I do this to RELAX -- tearing down statist arguments is enjoyable in the extreme; I might even call it a duty. So there's a degree of lag between individual postings -- doesn't matter if it's face-to-face (instantaneous), from Earth to the Moon (about 1.5 seconds), or postings on a YouTube video (God only knows). The message still gets out there.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
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@LambdaKore Hi I'm back this time it's business "tearing down statist arguments is enjoyable in the extreme". Except of course it is you and your primitive nonsense being torn down so far in all the arguments. History proves that societies that rely only on charity and philanthropy to supply the poor, sick, mental and physically impaired with the help they need will be societies where the bulk of the poor, sick, mental and physically impaired live short, painful degraded lives.
davijeph 1 day ago
@LambdaKore Only with the growth of those democratic institutions within Nations like the UK, US France, Canada over the past 100 years that have allowed true freedom for millions of people who would without laws, rules and regulations made and enforced by those liberal democratic institutions would still live in extreme hardship and deprivation. Thats all your getting from me enough time wasted talking you. Go find the Wiz of Oz he might give you a brain or perhaps more important a heart.
davijeph 1 day ago
@davijeph Wow. Again with the classic liberal "argument" that anyone who disagrees with you MUST do so ONLY because they're less moral or intelligent than you. Does it inconvenience you much, lugging around all that sand to bury your head in whenever someone tells you inconvenient truths?
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph Get a clue, stupid: no system is perfect, but some systems are more perfect than others -- namely, the free market. And even in these more-perfect systems, there will ALWAYS be individuals who fall through the cracks for one reason or another. The difference between you and I is how we choose to address these unfortunates. I choose to do it in ways that maximize individual freedom; you choose to do it in ways that diminish freedom.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph Your system is imploding under its own unsustainability -- the riots in London over the proposed tuition increases are proof of that. Whether for good intentions or ill (my money's on ill), your government has forced its way into nearly every aspect of your life and taught you not only to like it, but to want more and more of it, despite what it's clearly doing to you.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph Incredibly, even as the money starts to run out and the austerity cuts kick in, you have the gall to insist that other countries follow your example -- that you're somehow nobler for the fact that you've made every single Briton a junkie hooked on the smack being peddled by your own government.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph There's even a "fashionable" (if that's the word) psychosis going around in England right now, where otherwise healthy people are electing to have themselves surgically maimed (mostly by limb amputation, but there are other examples), and it's all paid for courtesy of your healthcare system, your oh so vaunted UHC. You are paying to mutilate your own neighbors, whether you want to or not. And you have the balls to call ME heartless, you sick twisted fuck?
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@ineedtogetsomesleep9 "Haha I didn't read everything you had to say. I barely read any of it." There's this neat little saying that goes "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." It works for ideas, too. You MIGHT want to read into the discussion first to see what ideas have already been proposed, which have survived, and which have failed, before you start regurgitating the failed ideas. It'll save everyone lots of time.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
Here's something to consider: even if a simple majority of people DID advocate for something that WAS a proven good, is using government force the ideal method of providing it, or should you try other non-force-based methods first? Since the use of force tends to diminish individual freedom, wealth, and opportunities, and that free-market-based options tend to increase them, why would you ever advocate for the use of force? BECAUSE STATISTS ARE INTOXICATED BY THE USE OF FORCE.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
People relax and remember that our country is one big pie and we all have to bake it. I think a lot of people are forgetting the very basics, saving a few more lives and making it a little easier for your neighbor to live a little longer. What is that worth to you? Maybe nothing to you, but to me and a lot of Americans out there it means a lot.
ineedtogetsomesleep9 1 day ago
@ineedtogetsomesleep9 "What is that worth to you? Maybe nothing to you, but to me and a lot of Americans out there it means a lot." Dude, I've already pointed that that populist argument for doing ANYTHING is not a guarantee of that thing's WORTHINESS. I've also pointed out the damaging effects on individual liberty of the "diffuse costs, concentrated benefits" argument. You're gonna have to do better than that.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
Ohhh, those evil profits. Damn them and their capitalist agendas. Maybe I should suck on the teet of the government, yeah they do a great job. Why didn't you include in your argument that Government already runs healthcare for Native Americans as part of a treaty? Could it be because they have a saying, "Do not get sick past June" because they don't have any money left, that's where that came from. Do you really want the same people who run Social Security running healthcare?
IamAmericanMade 2 days ago
The bulk of those "Little Socialist Kiddies" are now spending a long time rotting in our shitty little socialist prisons which we can't afford to maintain either. BTW hows Bernard Madoff (a fine example of American Libertarian free market business ethics getting on)? I see you're reverted back too your normal shitty childish language. BTW, US number 37th, France number 1 in healthcare. Boom Boom. Up the revolution.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph
You will always have a Bad Apple in the bunch, but this Country was made great by Our Freedom, not your Shitty Socialism!!!!
We already had our Revolution and we threw your Ignorant Britt Twit Asses the Hell out of our Free Country!!!!
If you want your Nanny State, good for you, but don't try and push your Shitty Socialism down Americas throat Moron!!!!
Osambasucks2 2 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Now, now calm down ya tosser.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph - just ordered "Margaret Thatcher's Revolution". Did you lymie's not learn any good lessons from Margaret?
smoochy999 2 days ago
@smoochy999 Going to see the film next week, on the whole Mrs T did a great deal of good for the country. Mainly in curtailing the power of out of control trade unions but she did do some very silly things like allowing the banks to run themselves. The results of which we are now paying for. Mrs T reign was like the vicars egg "good in parts". BTW who famously said "the NHS is safe in our hands" yep that good old socialist Mrs T. Just to remind you France rated No 1in healthcare UK18th, US 37th
davijeph 2 days ago
@smoochy999 PS. One other thing personally I like many Brits don't like the idea showing Mrs T suffering with dementia while the old bird is still alive. Bad taste, just not cricket don't you know.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph
I would say that you are a Loser because you are jealous that We the Free People of the USA are still Free, while you suffer with your Shitty Socialism! You Ignorant Britt Twit!!!!
Osambasucks2 1 day ago
@Osambasucks2 Remember a few posts ago I called you a cunt I was right about that too, now fuck off.
davijeph 1 day ago
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@davijeph
Yep, Insane Hussein Osamba is such a Loser!!!
Osamba is having another year of a 1 Trillion Dollar Deficit,yep 4 Fucking Years in a Row!!!!
Yep 4 Years and each year worse than all the years from 1947 to 2008!!!!!
Yep Insane Hussein Osamba has been the Worst Prez ever in the History of the USA!!!!
Osambasucks2 23 hours ago
@davijeph ....37th, 37th, 37th..yada yada yada. WTF....gimme a break jagoff pussy lymie.
smoochy999 2 days ago
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"The discussion is about your advocating having the U.S. government stick a gun to the head of every single American citizen and telling them that they WILL participate in government-run healthcare, whether they want to or not, "for their own good, of course". Understand?" Not really no. Its about "Why We** Need Government-Run Universal Socialized Health Insurance" (** the We being the US). Given the like/dislikes it looks as if more approve of that idea than not.
davijeph 3 days ago
@davijeph People want LOTS of things that are bad for them: booze, drugs, unprotected sex with multiple partners -- and ObamaCare. The fact that many people want these things DOESN'T mean that you should use force, waste resources, and reduce individual freedom to provide them at taxpayer expense. If things were judged solely on the merits of their popularity, then you can justify ANY intrusion into anyone's life, at any time, for any reason, as long as a simple majority supports it.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
The bulk of US citizens are asking for change in their medical system. If that is not a fact then what the pluck is all this discussion about. Citizens with UHC's are mostly supportive of there own healthcare systems which vary in the way they work from mostly socialised to mostly privatised. No matter what system is run in UHC countries all have access to Dr's who supply the required healthcare not by government dictat but by a free Dr working to help a free citizen in a free society
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph Your claim of "45 million uninsured" has already been proven to be inflated by about 50%, to include people who -- for one reason or another -- choose NOT to purchase healthcare coverage (that is, they made an informed decision NOT to buy a service and to assume the risk of paying for an illness or injury out-of-pocket). Your true chronically uninsured is actually closer to 25 million -- out of 350 million, that's not so bad -- like 1 in 14.
LambdaKore 3 days ago
@davijeph And -- AGAIN -- why advocate for a one-size-fits-all government solution that fucks things up for EVERYONE (mandated plans, increased bureaucracy, misallocation of resources, limited choice, increased taxes, etc., etc., etc.) to cover the 1-in-14 who can't or won't provide their own healthcare coverage?
LambdaKore 3 days ago
@davijeph And -- AGAIN -- the answer is that you WANT the government in control, for the simple fact that liberals view government as tool to do unto others, whether they want it or not. Liberals like the idea of government using force on others, because they believe they'll be the ones controlling that force, or that they'll at least be unaffected by it as others will be. It's always a rude shock when that force comes back to bite them, too.
LambdaKore 3 days ago
@davijeph "The bulk of US citizens are asking for change in their medical system." Perhaps they are -- but should that change come from themselves and their doctors, or should it be forced upon them from above by a bunch of ivory-tower snobs who've never run so much as a hotdog cart? Who've never had to maintain an inventory or a payroll? By a bunch of double-dealing insiders making incestuous deals behind closed doors, promises of openness to the contrary? Hmm, let me think...
LambdaKore 3 days ago 2
@davijeph "The bulk of US citizens are asking for change in their medical system. If that is not a fact then what the pluck is all this discussion about." The discussion is about your advocating having the U.S. government stick a gun to the head of every single American citizen and telling them that they WILL participate in government-run healthcare, whether they want to or not, "for their own good, of course". Understand?
LambdaKore 3 days ago
After all that as been said on this site these FACTS remain the US is rated 37th in overall healthcare. The US pays twice that of countries with UHC's. 60% of US bankruptcies have a connection with heath cost (people in countries with UHC's?Zero. 45million US citizens lack even basic medical insurance many millions more have basic cover. US child death rate is higher than most UHC's countries and people live longer in most UHC' countries.
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph -37th,37th,37th.....WTF, you sound like a broken record dickhead. Everyone who's interested in blowing a hole in that bullshit with a sawed off shotgun, go back a few weeks. Also, go check out the Mass universal healthcare for the state and how fucked up it is relative to the rest of the country. 17% higher costs.
Eat shit you fabian socialist!
Healthcare is a personal responsibility...end of story.
smoochy999 3 days ago
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"There's an interesting quirk to human psychology: during the Black Plague, for instance, there are stories of those who were sick forcing themselves onto healthy individuals, trying to infect them, too.". Their is also the story of "the plague of Eyam Village" look it up (I live in the general area).
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph
Yep and that is what you are doing Moron, you are trying to Infect the USA with your Shitty Socialism!!!!
I see that you have been told by more than 1 American to just leave it alone and go and worry about your own problems in your own Country!!!!
Osambasucks2 3 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Why? When YOU take your knowledge from Beck who you admire so much (Plonker). If Beck can be allowed to give an interview with Daniel Hannan (far right Anglo/Irish/Peruvian, inherited multi-millionaire who as never used the NHS on the subject of the British NHS then others are free to try and put a more balance view. Again and it should be very simple even for you to understand its not about government control its about EVERY citizen having access to affordable healthcare.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph
Yep and We the People don't need our Government to tell us what we need!
That is why We the People of the USA kicked your Ignorant Britt Asses out of Our Country twice!!!!
Osambasucks2 2 days ago
@davijeph - what a fuckin lame lymie. Beck has more intelligence flush down the toilet when he is done, than a bunch of you fucking fabian socialists over there in in UK while brainstorming.
Just saw "Iron Lady", a great movie about Margaret Thatcher. That woman sure had some balls to tell all you socialists to go pound salt. She is one of my new hero's!
Anyone want to go see how history repeats itself, and lessons to be learned from it, go see Iron Lady. WOW! De ja vue!
smoochy999 2 days ago
@Osambasucks2 The fact I have been able to knock down every view and comment from you and those other idiot friends of yours must be rally pissing you of otherwise why do you keep making up statements I have not made to try and score points (very Beck)? Given the results of the like /dislike boxes it would seem many of your own country men disagree with you to. Rock on youtube.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph
Bullshit you Ignorant Britt Twit!!!!
You have been Spewing your Socialist Censored Bullshit Lies!!!!
Go and worry about all your Little Socialist Kiddies that have been Rioting in your Country because your Government can't Afford all your Failed Socialist Programs!!!!
Osambasucks2 2 days ago
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@davijeph
We the People are 1 step closer to ridding this Country of a Marxist Tyrant!
So maybe, just maybe Judge Malihi read the final words of Jablonski’s hyper arrogant, “we don’t believe your little state or your silly hearing are worth our time” letter for the purpose of reading into the record the fact that it was indeed the decision of Obama and his attorney to NOT attend and to NOT honor legal subpoenas.
Osambasucks2 2 days ago
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@davijeph
Yep all Osambas men come tumbling down again...LOL!!!!!
DOJ OFFICIAL TO PLEAD THE 5TH
In what is widely viewed as an admission of complicity in criminal conduct, Department of Justice official Patrick Cunningham plans to plead the 5th Amendment in response to his Congressional subpoena on Fast & Furious.
INDICTING ERIC HOLDER IS THE FIRST STEP
TO IMPEACHING BARACK OBAMA!
Osambasucks2 2 days ago
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I live in a country where the government run´s the healthcare. It´s not good, and it is a wealthy country. We spend more money on healthcare than the us per capita and the hospitals are falling apart. The equipment is often older than me. And sure it´s free but you often have to wait 3-12 months i agonizing pain for treatment for some thing that is weary small. And yes there are no profits but the overhead is enormous.
stefnirk 4 days ago
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stefnirk 4 days ago
I’ve seen people argue against socialized medicine while covered by gov socialized medicine after retiring from the armed forces possibly even for a disability (which would make them eligible for other socialized government programs which they are probably taking advantage of). I know one personally who argues against socialism while living in public housing and on SS, Medicaid etc. Go figure :)
Keep your government hands off my Social Security seems to be the battle cry of the stupid:o)
TheDumbChristian 5 days ago
The USA doesn't need government-provided insurance, it needs an NHS like we have over in Britain. The only thing that is putting them in the way are a few right-wing, ignorant republicans who are too stuck up about their apparently wonderful constitution to give it a go
reded187 5 days ago
"Socialized medicine" is NOT a magical mantra that will solve all your problems. When no one is directly responsible for the cost of the goods and services they consume, they have no incentive to make good choices and every incentive to consume as much of those goods and services as possible -- or at least to the extent that the army of bureaucrats running the system will allow them. You think the overhead in the private healthcare sector is bad, wait 'til it becomes a government program.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@LambdaKore
Hey that davijeph is just an Ignorant Britt Twit that all ready has his Shitty Socialist Health Care!!!!!
Osambasucks2 6 days ago
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@LambdaKore You are right about one thing "Socialized medicine" is NOT a magical mantra that will solve all your problems." Obviously it will not anymore than the private system/ socialist system the US users. Heath care could use the entire resources of the US and still not perfect.What you should be trying to achieve is a secure cost effective medical system for all while for those with the means and choice should they so choose pay top dollars for top service.
davijeph 5 days ago
@davijeph "What you should be trying to achieve is a secure cost effective medical system for all while for those with the means and choice should they so choose pay top dollars for top service." Which you will NOT have through a government-run program. They are notorious for failing to live up to their mandates, they rarely (if ever) live within their originally-planned budgets, and the people running these programs are rarely (if ever) held personally accountable for their actions.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@LambdaKore IF what I say is so boring and unoriginal why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it? Am I advocating Government free issue to all citizens of "booze, drugs, unprotected sex with multiple partners" or even "ObamaCare"? No. All democratically elected representatives are accountable for their actions ask Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. Instead of attacking me and those that would support some of my views and values why not stop a minute and question yours?
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph "IF what I say is so boring and unoriginal why do you feel the need to keep commenting on it?" How does it go? "All that is required for evil to triumph is that men of good will do nothing." Dude, I will ALWAYS call out stupidity and evil, any time, any place. Likely you're not actually evil, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome -- you've been a captive for too long and you've learned to like it.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@LambdaKore "so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome" Can I by that token suggest you of a suffering sociopathic disorder based on the fact you obviously have no empathy for those less fortunate than themselves.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph I'm simply SLOPPING over with sympathy for the less fortunate -- what we differ on is how we provide for them. There are ways to cover those suffering from chronic or catastrophic illnesses in ways that DON'T involve limiting EVERYONES choices or forcing them into a one-size-fits-all solution at the point of a gun.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph Once again, you invoke the typical liberal defense that anyone who disagrees with you does so because of a moral or intellectual failing -- the thought that your ideas might be bad ideas not worthy of implementing NEVER occurs to you. Ask yourself this: would people be MORE free or LESS free if your ideas were implemented? If you're honest, you won't like the answer.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph "Am I advocating Government free issue to all citizens of "booze, drugs, unprotected sex with multiple partners" or even "ObamaCare"? No." Not at the moment, no. But if you can force one thing -- no matter how demonstrably bad -- on the people because a simple majority calls for it, then you can do ANYTHING as long as a simple majority calls for it. It gets even worse when no one is held accountable for their bad decisions -- that's a road to butchery.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@LambdaKore "I've questioned my views, and the simple answer is that MINE maximize individual freedom, wealth, and opportunity, and YOURS diminish them." Well I agree yours is a simple answer unfortunately you seem not to understand the question.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph What's not to understand? Statists like you believe that the only way to resolve the problems in the U.S. healthcare system is to invoke government force to resolve a problem largely caused by previous government intrusions, regardless of its detrimental effect on individual freedom, wealth, and opportunities. That pretty much sums it up.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph "All democratically elected representatives are accountable for their actions ask Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. " What about appointed administrators? Can't vote 'em out -- best you can do is hope to vote out the party that put them in place, and even then, there's no guarantee of getting them out. And most have some degree of immunity. Watch how they're trying to shield Eric Holder from the fallout for "Fast And Furious", if you want to see what I mean.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
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@LambdaKore "What about appointed administrators? Can't vote 'em out --" True but thats even more true for people employed by private companies. Who do I trust more people working in private industry or civil servants well on balance neither.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph "Instead of attacking me and those that would support some of my views and values why not stop a minute and question yours?" I've questioned my views, and the simple answer is that MINE maximize individual freedom, wealth, and opportunity, and YOURS diminish them.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph Besides, don't you WANT to test your ideas? If you build a bridge, wouldn't you test it to see how heavy a load it can bear? If you build a plane, wouldn't you test it to see if it was safe to fly? Same thing with ideas. Surely, someone as confident and self-righteous as you MUST have thought out every little wrinkle and unintended consequence of the thing you're advocating -- here's your chance to prove it's not a lot of hot air and bullshit.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@LambdaKore I've been testing my ideas (which I agree are not original but then neither are yours)for over 60 years. I one thing I do know for certain there is no "simple" answer to the question what makes a secure worthwhile society. I assume you agree we both live in societies? Freedom for the individual? Certainly but freedom to do what exactly. Giving you total freedom might make my life hell and Vice versa. Who decides what freedoms are given to whom? The one with the money or biggest gun
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph Again, conservatives view the government as a tool -- a shield to safeguard their lives and property -- a necessary evil to be invoked as sparingly and as judiciously as possible. Liberals view government as tool to make others do as they wish, and they nearly ALWAYS see dissent and opposition as proof that their ideas are right and maybe even just. I view force as something to be used as a last resort; you see it as the preferred tool to implement policy.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph Face it, dude: you're terrified at the idea of having to take care of yourself. The thought of having to be responsible for yourself has you crapping in your pants. You love the idea of the social safety net for a variety of reasons, but the crap you spout about "the social contract" and the "greater good" is just code language that allows to you avoid admitting that you can't or don't want to be responsible for yourself.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@LambdaKore Me? I settle for the tried and trusted method of living in a Liberal democracy. I might not like every government I lived with and I might agreed with every policy of the government makes but nobodies come up with a workable alternative either from the left or right. Give the people a chance to have open and honest discourse and it is very seldom they go far wrong. Thats why elected governments are so important you go vote the buggers out. Now you give me a workable alternative?
davijeph 1 day ago
@davijeph "nobodies come up with a workable alternative either from the left or right" Don't give me that crap. There are lots of solutions, but people LOVE the idea of using governmental force to implement the solution that provides them with maximum personal benefit at minimum personal cost (i.e., at government [read "taxpayer"] expense). Diffuse costs, concentrated benefits. It's intoxicating, and it's as corrosive to individual freedom as acid is to flesh.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@LambdaKore A quickie "nobodies come up with a workable alternative either from the left or right" Don't give me that crap. There are lots of solutions," Give me one that would replace liberal democracy.
davijeph 1 day ago
@davijeph "Give me one that would replace liberal democracy." How about a constitutional republic?
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph "Give the people a chance to have open and honest discourse and it is very seldom they go far wrong. " Which is why the ObamaCare discussions were held behind closed doors without the benefit of cameras, right? That "honest discussion" is why Nancy Pelosi said that "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it", right? Right...
LambdaKore 1 day ago
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@davijeph "Now you give me a workable alternative? " How about a small limited government with constitutional constraints that actually respects and defends the sovereign rights of the individual? That recognizes that each citizen know best how to live his or her life -- better than any number of bureaucrats -- with a minimum of governmental interference?
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph Nothing you've put up here is new or compelling -- it's not even all that interesting. For the most part, the failings of the U.S. healthcare system are a result of TOO MUCH government intrusion -- and instead of admitting or realizing that, the people who called for that intrusion now call for MORE government intrusion to solve the very problem they created in the first place.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
If someone isn't a troll they might want to google the following phrase:
Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice
After reading the article that this will take you to you could dispute it by sending for the MENSA home IQ test. That should give you an accurate indication of your true IQ. I'm betting you'll be very surprised.
nlowell1 6 days ago
You honestly believe that the government would manage our healthcare system and dollars better than individuals participating in the free market? That's either baseless idealism or despicable stupidity on your part. The government already has too much power over your life, and you want to give them even more? And not just over your own life -- where the cost of failure could be limited to affect just yourself -- but also over the lives of hundreds of millions of other people? Unbelievable...
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@LambdaKore It's neither "baseless idealism or despicable stupidity". Based on the fact that the US is rated 37th in heath care yes paying for is costs about twice that of another country that users a UHC system would seem to be based on "baseless idealism or despicable stupidity". The fact that in a lot of these countries healthcare systems is not government controlled simply to a greater or lesser degree financed by all citizens for the benefit of all citizens including the rich.
davijeph 6 days ago
@davijeph So if we're so far down the list, why is the U.S. still the destination of choice for world leaders to come to for THEIR medical treatment? For example, wasn't it just last year where one of Canada's ministers came here for heart surgery, rather than enjoy Canada's state-provided services? Again, dude -- if you want to surrender control of your OWN life to the Feds, you go for it, but keep your fucking hands off everyone else's life.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@LambdaKore World leaders have the money to pay for your top-end medical care. America does have excellent top end medicine but that is not what the bulk of any nations population is in need of most of the time. Had an heart attack? Can you pay for the long term medical care and prescriptions needed afterwards without going bankrupt? Health care is about ALL citizens having access to 100% treatments 100%of the time regardless of ability to pay. US 37th France No 1
davijeph 6 days ago
@davijeph There are some things -- like the police, the courts, and the military -- for which we all pay and for which we all receive services or benefits. These are necessary evils, for which there are constitutional provisions, and the concept was not meant to be expanded into the realm of personal consumer choices. And healthcare is most certainly that.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@LambdaKore Consumer choice is great but choice is only a reality for those who have the money. I have not mentioned the profit motive but since you mention it why do you think your system costs so much yet gives so little to so many? You have a vast army of bureaucrats working in you private insurance companies none of which supply you with so much as an Aspirin. The wealthy will always be able to afford "the best" the problem with the US systems to many can afford nothing or very little.
davijeph 5 days ago
@LambdaKore With an estimated 45 million uninsured Americans, some 500,000 trekked overseas last year for medical treatment, according to the National Coalition on Health Care". "NEWS FROM CAMBRIDGE HEALTH ALLIANCE. June 4, 2009. Over 60 Percent of All US Bankruptcies Linked to Medical Problems. New research finds most victims are middle-class and have health insurance". If a system is proven to supply overall a higher rated cheaper healthcare than.
davijeph 5 days ago
@davijeph Yes -- it's called "medical tourism". There ARE people willing to travel to other countries, willing to pay whatever it takes, and willing to take the risk for drugs and treatments not available here, because those goods and services have not been approved by the FDA. Also, hospitals are not free to compete, but must charge what the government tells them to, at rates the government sets. That's the GOVERNMENT limiting choice, not the free market.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@LambdaKore Nobody is saying if you have the money and choose to spend it on private medicine you cannot do so. UHC’s ensure no citizen goes without health cover this must be good for the heath of your population and even ensures that the rich will never be ruined when highly expensive and long term heath cost hit your family. To use your constitution as an excuse for not supplying it to all your citizens means there is something wrong with your constitution or theirs something wrong with you.
davijeph 5 days ago
@davijeph The main thrust of your argument is that giving the government control of the healthcare industry will remove the profit motive (which you seem to regard as evil or unjust, despite the goods and services it makes available to you), which you think means more dollars devoted to actual healthcare services. That's a false assumption. The government is notorious for failing to stick to a budget, and for robbing one program to pay for another -- this would be no exception.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@davijeph As it is right now (for the most part), you make the choices for your health care, and you pay the cost, whether in the plan you use, the lifestyle you live, and the services you use -- and that's how it should be. Why are you so eager to have a bearueacrat tell you what plan you can have, what services you'll get, and when you'll get them? Think it's bad now? Just wait.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@davijeph "World leaders have the money to pay for your top-end medical care." So in other words, do as they say, but not as they do, right? In the real world, we call that being a hypocrite. If the system is so good it needs to be imposed on the masses by force of law, surely it ought to be good enough for the people who write and enforce the laws, shouldn't it? That should have been your first flag that socialized medicine was a boon-doggle.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@davijeph One more thing: it's a false argument (i.e., a "misrepresentation", or what I like to call a "lie") to use the word "choice" when the appropriate word is "force". In your scenario, you claim that we would "choose" to have the government manage the plan for us, when in fact we would be FORCED by law -- say, ObamaCare -- to participate. Remember his promise that we could keep our plans and our doctors? Doesn't seem to holding up too well at the moment.
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@davijeph "Health care is about ALL citizens having access to 100% treatments 100%of the time regardless of ability to pay" Says who? You? And who pays for it? When you pay your own bills, I don't have the right to complain about the choices you make or how you spend your own money. When I'm forced by law to pay your bills, you can bet I'll let you spend as little money as possible -- and the government will be no exception. Ever heard of squeezing blood from a stone?
LambdaKore 6 days ago
@LambdaKore You seem like many Libertarians to have no sense of the wider community . Saying "you are happy to give to the charity of your choice" why should I be forced to give to help everyone"? The answer is simple you are a member of a society that society has basic HUMAN standards of right or wrong. You are responsible for your neighbour and your neighbour is responsible for you not because some scrap of paper tells you what you can or cannot do but because your shared humanity demands it.
davijeph 5 days ago
@davijeph HA HA HA HA! What an overly-developed sense of responsibility. Dude, if you want to be your brother's keeper, do it with your own money. You're free to ask others to chip in, but trying to compel them in order to prove your moral superiority is chicken-shit. You don't prove how compassionate and caring you are by using the government's guns to force others to do as you want them to do -- that's called being a statist thug, and most people will resent that very much.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph Actually, it reveals a desire to have your own lifestyle subsidized at others expense, couched in a a language of brotherhood -- how original. Let's force EVERYONE to contribute -- under threat of law -- so that YOU can enjoy goods and services you would otherwise have to pay for yourself, and all at subsidized rates. There's nothing noble about invoking the government to commit fraud and theft on your behalf -- even a mugger has the balls to commit his crimes himself.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@LambdaKore My life style as never been subsided by the tax payer. No matter how you chose to belittle "government" the US system of healthcare is the most expensive in the world but is rated a lowly 37th. If a "free market" means a medical/welfare system without tax based subsidies how would those with no or low income get welfare/medical help (don't tell me charity your welfare bill alone is $953 billion)? If UHC's are bad ideas why does every advanced liberal democratic nation use them?
davijeph 5 days ago
@davijeph The simple answer is that there is already TOO MUCH government involvement in healthcare, and your "solution" is to simply increase the role of government in healthcare -- which is like adding on more leeches while you're bleeding to death.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph The government sets the policies and procedures, dictates what goods and services (via the FDA) you can or can't have, and pays doctors and hospitals (via Medicaid or Medicare) below-market reimbursement, which discourages them from accepting low-income patients (who end up relying on more expensive emergency room treatment later, rather than receiving preventative treatment from their own doctors earlier and cheaper -- if they seek treatment at all).
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph The government is already the single biggest impediment between you and your doctor and the goods and services you want and need, so why would you seek to increase the government's role in that relationship? Either because you grossly misunderstand cause-and-effect, or because you know exactly what you're doing and all of this is by design.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph Here's something to consider: conservatives view the role of government as a shield to protect themselves and their property from the depredations of others, a necessary evil to be invoked as sparingly as possible. Liberals tend to view government as a tool to do things for you or (more often the case) to you (usually phrased in terms like "for your own good" -- whether you want it or not).
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph To add insult to injury, you then want to be applauded as wise and just and brilliant for invoking government force to compel your stupid greedy neighbors (as liberals tend to view anyone who disagrees with them) into something you want, regardless of whether your neighbors want it also. The degree to which they resist you is usually the degree to which you are convinced that you are just and right in forcing yourself upon them.
LambdaKore 5 days ago 2
@LambdaKore I have no wish to be applauded for anything if I did I would hardly choose the anonymity of youtube to seek it. My solution to healthcare is to try and supply all citizens with comprehensive healthcare at affordable cost to the nation.I don't actually care if it is government run it or its privately run. Try not to keep putting people into simple stereotypes am I a liberal a conservative a socialist a capitalist? Yes, to all none of those things are mutually exclusive of the other .
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph "I don't actually care if it is government run it or its privately run. " Which is completely at odds to the video you posted -- it's in the title, for God's sake. You WANT the government in control -- WHY you would want them in control is your issue. Maybe you have a mistaken belief in the role of government as a provider rather than a protector, or maybe you have a mistaken assumption about how efficient the government would be (which would be laughable if not so tragic).
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph "I have no wish to be applauded for anything if I did " Then you're unique as a liberal. Some are in-your-face about their belief in their own intellectual or moral superiority, and some are not, but all of them are utterly convinced of their own brilliance and of how the perfect the world would be if only they could get the government to force people to live the way they want them to live. Like I said, liberals view government as a tool to force others to do as they wish.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph "My solution to healthcare is to try and supply all citizens with comprehensive healthcare at affordable cost to the nation." And by handing the system over to the government for the sake of a relative minority, you're going to destroy -- or at least cripple -- the free market healthcare system that was working for the majority. That's not a solution, that's insanity.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph Again, if you're seriously concerned about the relative minority who suffer catastrophic health issues or are chronically uninsured, why not advocate for a system to cover them, rather than force EVERYONE into the same one-size-fits-all government solution, whether they want it or not? Simple answer: because you honestly just don't give a shit about people, period. For liberals, it really is all about the power and control.
LambdaKore 5 days ago 2
@LambdaKore You are I assume a citizen of the US? You choose to except being a citizen of that Nation (if you have not freely chosen to be why do you choose to live their).If you are their by your own freewill nobody is forcing you to do anything but in excepting your citizenship you must except that there are rights, duties and privileges that come with that citizenship. Those rights, duties and privileges have been given to you by the will of a free democratic peoples not "force"
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph The rights, duties, and responsibilities of citizenship have certain well-defined constitutional requirements and limits -- which is more than can be said for ObamaCare. Such an over-reach of governmental authority opens the door wide open to a whole host of intrusions into the most intimate details of the private lives of every single citizen, and I am eagerly awaiting the Supreme Court to review it.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph "Those rights, duties and privileges have been given to you by the will of a free democratic peoples not "force" " Here's a shocking little eye-opener for you: ALL GOVERNMENT ACTIONS ARE ULTIMATELY BACKED BY A GUN. That's about as forceful as you can get. Resist something -- anything -- long enough, and eventually the guns WILL come out. So the use of government force is something best done as sparingly and as judiciously as possible, and not for populist feeding frenzies.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@LambdaKore Again UHC's do not force every one into the same one-size fits all what is does ensure is everyone as an healthcare suit to wear. Your views and values are wrong but at least you are more articulate than old Osambasucks2
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph
Yep you Ignorant Britt Twit, I see that you don't want the American people to see the Truth!
Yep I see that Osambas Green Jobs back Fired on him again....LOL!!!!
Yep Insane Hussein Osamba took 700 Million of our Dollars and invested it in to his Bullshit Green Jobs, but now We the People have lost all that Money because where Osamba put it all 3 of those Company's have gone Bankrupted!!!!!
Yep Osamba Fuck the American People once again!!!!!
Osambasucks2 4 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Pardon?
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph
Why did you Fart you Ignorant Britt Twit?????
Osambasucks2 3 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Only over you!
davijeph 3 days ago
@davijeph "Your views and values are wrong " And again, it's the classic liberal argument that anyone who disagrees with you does so because they're simply not intelligent or moral enough to compete with you -- it certainly couldn't be because your ideas involve the use of force, the theft of property, and the reduction of individual choice.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
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@davijeph "all what is does ensure is everyone as an healthcare suit to wear." And what about the people who already have coverage? Many employers are dropping their plans (many of which offered better coverage) ahead of ObamaCare, and many are going to get dinged badly because their plans don't conform to the dictates of ObamaCare. Again, that's the GOVERNMENT limiting choice and artificially dictating prices, NOT THE FREE MARKET. THAT'S why we don't want them involved.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph Here's a thought: if you TRULY believe that the government is wise enough, benevolent enough, and efficient enough to dictate the most intimate details of your healthcare, why not hand complete control over every other aspect of your life to a bunch of bureaucrats? How much schooling you can have and what type, what job you'll have, where you can live, who you can marry (or if you can marry), how many kids you can have (or if you're allowed to have any), and on and on?
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph I mean, surely if a bunch of uninvested disinterested bureaucrats are capable of telling you where you what treatments you can have and when and what it'll cost, rather than you and your doctor making those decisions, surely those same bureaucrats are capable of making all the other important choices in your life better than you, right? Free yourself from the burden of thought and choice and responsibility. Doesn't that sound nice?
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph Because if the government CAN force itself into the most intimate aspects of your healthcare, then -- really -- where CAN'T it force itself eventually? If you cannot hold them to a line and say "this far and no further", then how far will they go? History says "all the way". Whether it's by the iron fist of a dictator like Hitler or Stalin, or by means of a slow smothering nanny-state like you have in Britain, the effect is the same, dude: total loss of individual freedom.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@LambdaKore What makes you think I think the "government" is wise enough, benevolent enough etc to dictate the most intimate details of my healthcare? I don't I leave that to my own chosen Dr and any medical experts he might choose (not government) to deal with any medical problems I might have. I'm afraid you're being a little ridiculous if you think in my nanny state (it's not by the way) the government tells us who to marry , etc.
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph "What makes you think I think the "government" is wise enough, benevolent enough etc to dictate the most intimate details of my healthcare? " What do you think will happen once a bureaucrat is in charge of healthcare, instead of you and your doctor? Whether that's your intention or not, the power do decide WILL shift out of your hands and into theirs.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph I lived in England for over a year back in the early '90s, and I was appalled at what I saw and experienced, at what you Brits had become and were willing to submit to; twenty years later, and things have only gotten worse. I'm sure the Jews didn't believe they'd be rounded up in ghettos -- until it happened. I'm sure they didn't believe they'd be forced onto cattle cars -- until it happened. I'm sure they didn't believe a lot of things would happen -- until they happened.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
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@davijeph "I'm afraid you're being a little ridiculous if you think in my nanny state (it's not by the way) the government tells us who to marry , etc. " The point is, once you open the door to a government intrusion into your life, where does it end? If you're not willing to draw a line here and stand on it, where will you? Wasn't it Churchill who said that those who trade freedom for security will have neither, and deserve neither?
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@LambdaKore Unfortunately you are guilty of the very things you accuse me of. Are you not trying for "applause" trying to show your own "brilliance" when someone disagrees with you? Your arguments are being pulled to bits one by one not because of my "brilliance" (I'm very at best a very ordinary fellow) but because your views and understanding of what is truth have been blinded by black propaganda by those who make money from your health system.
davijeph 4 days ago
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@davijeph "Unfortunately you are guilty of the very things you accuse me of. Are you not trying for "applause" trying to show your own "brilliance" when someone disagrees with you? " No, I have no illusion of converting you to my way of thinking -- I'm simply having fun illustrating the nihilistic nature of liberalism and the danger of your willingness to submit everyone to governmental control.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph "black propaganda by those who make money from your health system" Again, the typical liberal disdain for and misunderstanding of the profit motive. What a surprise. It's not magical fairies or prayers that make the goods and services you want and need available to you: it's individuals pursuing profits that do, whether in food (farmers), housing (contractors), transportation (car manufacturers), education (teachers), or healthcare (doctors and drug companies).
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@LambdaKore I have no problem with private healthcare I have a problem when people cannot get healthcare or go bankrupt paying for it. Japan, Australia, UK, Canada, Norway etc are just as free as you (if not in some cases freer) yet all those and many others supply higher rated healthcare at far lower cost than in the land of the free. Who is controlling your life? The government or some multi-billion dollar company? I think we can go no further or we will soon be insulting each other.By By.
davijeph 4 days ago
@davijeph "I have a problem when people cannot get healthcare or go bankrupt paying for it." So -- AGAIN -- why ruin the ENTIRE free market health care system for EVERYBODY, rather than advocate for a system to cover those who can't provide for themselves? Answer: because liberals are intoxicated by power -- the power to compel others through governmental force.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@LambdaKore -great job kicking davijephs pathetic little fabian socialist ass. Been fun watching you beat him into submission. Soon he will start the non-personal-directed replies.....like he is talking to himself. Must make him feel important or something.
Again....great job with your arguments.
smoochy999 3 days ago
@smoochy999 Thank you. You should watch the critique of this pathetic video at HowTheWorldWorks here on YouTube.
LambdaKore 3 days ago 2
@LambdaKore - your welcome, I and my colleagues have just about seen them all. Every time I poke gaping holes in this fabian socialist brit twits arguements, he pours on more pathetic crap. Kicked the asshole and canadian friends asses for months. Been waiting for that idiot to chime in.....maybe he changed names again. Was deathtodictators, randinriola, and theyself that I know of.
Good grief!! These socialists....especially the foreigners....must be brutally dealt with. Only way!
smoochy999 3 days ago
@smoochy999 Well, like I said, there's that funny little kink to human psychology: people living in oppression look out and see other people living free, and rather than try to end the misery at home, they try instead to spread their misery abroad. I guess it's easier to tear other people down to their level than to build themselves up. I gotta go to work. Have a good one...
LambdaKore 3 days ago 2
@LambdaKore
Yep all these Socialists from other Countries are trying to tell us how we should live, I thought that we all lived in America so we could live the way that we wanted to????
I served My Country because I believe in My Country and it was My Choice!
In most European countries you have to serve or Move out!!!!
These Britt's in their Nanny State want us to live just like them, hell that is what this Country fought a War to stop! But they don't believe in all of that!
Osambasucks2 3 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Like I said, I spent a year in England (about an hour South of London) during the early 1990s. I can't begin to describe how grey and dull and depressing I found the place -- it was like stepping into a black-and-white photograph of Soviet Russia from the early 1970s. All they do is drink and fuck -- not a bad thing in itself, but -- moderation, man. It must really suck when you've lost your focus in life, your sense of identity and pride. I felt so sorry for them.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@LambdaKore Well Britain is not exactly famous for its warm blue seas and bright sunshine (why the hell do you thing my ancestors where so keen to build empires in places like India, Africa and Australia. It's bloody freezing outside it the moment with a sky looking like a solid sheet of lead) regarding the drinking and fucking bit sorry you make it sound like Desperate Housewives without the sunshine.
davijeph 2 days ago
@davijeph Or it could be that you've had the life and soul choked out of you by the slow, constant encroachment of a smothering nanny-state. You used to rule the world; now you're a nation of has-beens, and everything I've seen and experienced there tells me that you know it and hate it -- yet your answer is to keep going back for more of the same poison that's killing you.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph The problems with England are largely the result of decades of constant encroachments of government into every aspect of your lives, with the consequent decline in individual freedom, responsibility, initiative, etc., etc., etc. You know this, and you probably hate it, but like a woman in an abusive relationship, you keep going back for more, thinking that you can't do better or that you don't deserve better. BUT YOU STILL DO NOTHING TO FIX THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@davijeph You're like a bird in a cage, looking out and seeing other birds flying free, bewildered and even resentful that they don't rely on someone to constantly provide them with food and water and fresh newspaper. You sing; you preen; and you're provided for; but you're also at the mercy of the provider every single day of your life. It never occurs to you to open the cage and escape to live life on your own terms. You LIKE being taken care of -- you may even feel you deserve it.
LambdaKore 2 days ago
@LambdaKore "You LIKE being taken care of -- you may even feel you deserve it. No your wrong again". Since leaving school at 15 I have always made my own way in life along the way hopefully have some good times. Now retired live in my own home owe nothing to nobody and I even feed the wildlife birds and all. See you are still posting but for the moment I must be away things to do.
davijeph 1 day ago
@davijeph Just because you don't see and feel the bars of your cage every single moment of your life doesn't mean that they're not there. You've been so conditioned to them that you probably don't even see them AS bars anymore. I've lived under your system, dude; I've seen what it's done to your country, and I resent like Hell your wanting to ship it over here.
LambdaKore 1 day ago
@davijeph There's an interesting quirk to human psychology: during the Black Plague, for instance, there are stories of those who were sick forcing themselves onto healthy individuals, trying to infect them, too. Muslim women -- who've lived their entire lives being subjugated, humiliated, and controlled -- actively participate in the subjugation of other Muslim women attempting to break free. Statists like you are no different when they see other people living free, or attempting to.
LambdaKore 4 days ago
@davijeph And of course, you've chosen to invoke the classic liberal argument that anyone who disagrees with you does so because they're not smart enough to understand the issues, or they're morally inferior to you, or -- should those charges fail to stick -- because they're racist or sexist or whatever. It never occurs to you that they disagree with you and oppose your ideas BECAUSE THEY"RE BAD IDEAS. They involve use of force, the theft of property, and the reduction of choice.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph And assuming that your concern for the few who do suffer catastrophic medical crisises or are chronically uninsured IS genuine, then why not create a safety net to cover those few unfortunates that DOESN'T involve screwing things up for EVERYONE? Just because ONE guy can't or won't take care of himself DOESN'T mean you hand EVERYONE in town over to the control of an army of indifferent bureaucratic thugs. That just brings everyone down to a common level of misery -- not good.
LambdaKore 5 days ago
@davijeph
Well you Ignorant Britt Twit, We the Free People of the USA Kicked your Ignorant Britt Asses out of here twice so we wouldn't have to do what you wanted us to do!!!!!
So you can keep your Shitty Socialism and We the Free People of the USA will keep Our Freedom Ass Hole!!!!!!
Osambasucks2 6 days ago
The only reason Bush Jnr added $4,000,000,000 to the US's national debt (not to mention 110,000 dead) was because he wanted to give his dad the present of Saddam's head on a plate. The reason why Pres' Obama HAD TO increase that debt was if he had not the entire US banking and finance system would have collapsed and with it vast swaths of US business (not to mention the rest of the world). Obviously some dumb nuts in the US would rather have Hoovervilles than a sound banking system.
davijeph 6 days ago
@davijeph
Oh Looky an Ignorant Britt Twit is trying to Bullshit America!!!!!
Too bad for you, you Ignorant Britt Twit, but all of us here in America know the Truth and can see that you are just Spewing your Socialist Censored Bullshit Lies!!!!!
Osambasucks2 6 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Insulting people is not an answer to the point they make.
davijeph 6 days ago
You can certainly tell the Fox News Glenn Beck viewers. It's very entertaining reading their posts. The right wing propaganda mission has been an incredible success.
Excellent video by the way. Just what I need for my right wing friends with Fox induced brain freeze.
TheDumbChristian 6 days ago
@TheDumbChristian
Yep Fox News is the #1 News Station all across America, We the People are tired of your Socialist Censored Liberal Lying News! So we all watched Mr Beck show us all the Truth backed by Fact! Something that you will never see in the Lamestream Liberal Lying Media!!!!
Yep the Lying Marxist Dictator said that he would Create Jobs, so Osamba sent our Tax Dollars & our Jobs to South America & his Commie Buddy George Soros!!!!!
Yep We the People know the TRUTH!
Osambasucks2 6 days ago
Just to let every one know. I am an American and no we are not all like the crazy Obamasucks2 guy. Most of us want socialized healthcare and realize it's merits. It may not be perfect but no system is. that being said there are more pros to it than cons, and one day we will have it here in the USA. And on that day even the looney right wingers can have healthcare also because "WE THE PEOPLE" do accept them and their right to free speach.
4lifemrobama 6 days ago
@4lifemrobama
Yep you are an Ignorant Brain Washed Libtard, and We the People are not all as Stupid and Ignorant like you Ass Hole!!!!
Yep the FACT is that 70% of Americans said NO to Osambas Socialist Health Care you Lying Libtard Ass Hole!!!!!
And We the People don't want a Lying Marxist Dictator, that is why We the People will throw Insane Hussein Osamba out on his Lying Marxist Black Ass you Lying Libtard Ass Hole!!!!!
Osambasucks2 6 days ago
@Osambasucks2 Well according to a cbs poll "The AP poll, conducted May 5-9, shows that 54 percent of Americans approve of Mr. Obama's handling of health care, while 46 percent disapprove." But aside from that issue i still don't see why you name call every one who you dissagree with. And the comment about throwing him out on his "Black Ass" actually makes your argument more puerile and archaic. If you want to have a civil discores thats fine but not when your so contemptible.
4lifemrobama 6 days ago
@4lifemrobama
Well according to the Fox Poll 70% (Jan 5-12) of Americans do not want Osambas Shitty Socialist Health Care, and Fox News is the #1 News Station all across America!!! And I see that you have OLD NEWS!!!!
So you can Believe in what your Socialist Censored Liberal Lying News is telling you, and the Rest of America will Believe in the Truth!!!!!
And My Comment was throw Insane Hussein Osamba out on his LYING MARXIST BLACK ASS you Ignorant Ass Hole!!!!!
Osambasucks2 6 days ago
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IF you actually took away all the verbal diarrhoea and childish language from what Osambasucks2 says he does not actually say anything. Theirs nothing there, no discussion, no ideas, no intelligence just mindless racial abuse and schoolboy insults.
davijeph 1 week ago
If you had to buy fire insurance and police services, your taxes would be much lower. Plus, the service would be competitive with other businesses, and it would therefore be a much better service.
DjZephy 1 week ago 2
@DjZephyThe problem with a “free market” while we can choose and tailor our needs to our income when thinking of buying a car, washing m/c etc we all require 100% Police, fire and healthcare services giving almost unlimited treatment costs over a lifetime for ourselves and our families. The US system shows not just the poor but even the averagely wealthy could never afford to pay the premiums required. All but the very wealthy need UHC’s to back up the cost of healthcare.
davijeph 1 week ago
IF you actually took away all the verbal diarrhoea and childish language from what Osambasucks2 says he does not actually say anything. Theirs nothing there, no discussion, no ideas, no intelligence just mindless racial abuse and schoolboy insults.
davijeph 1 week ago
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@davijeph
Wrong Moron, I just told Osamba, what would he call himself after Osamba had called Bush Irresponsible for adding 4 Trillion Dollars to the National debt! Now that Osamba has add 5 Trillion Dollars to the National; Debt in just 3 Years!!!!!
Yep No Troll Here Moron, Just the Facts!!!!!
Osambasucks2 1 week ago