In the Lucumi's have a long way of catching up. They lost alot of they secrets to preserve the orisa religion. They keep crowning the same orisa over and over again due to lack of knowlege. The keep doing Oya,ogun,esu,sango,yemonja ect.. When have you ever been to a lucumi function and seen Nana buruku come down? Or iroko, yewa (ewa),Osain, Oba, Logun ede, Olubaye, Ode, Oba,osunmare,different roads of sango i.e the white cloth of sango, different lines oya.
Yes we have influence from the Congo but thats because when slaves arrived in Cuba they were seperated from family and paired off with strangers from other tribes. These couples later had children so of course the children kept both traditions alive.Yoruba/Congo... Its no coincidence that the Oddu that was read when they arrived was Oguna Masa (In unity is strength...) You cant discriminate against all lucumi santeros just becuase u may have landed in a bad house..
@perle42 no one divined when they "first" arrived. Do you think they allowed those they were enslaving to bring their religious items with them? Indded they immediately batizes each and every African.
I agree that there are many Santeros who are assholes but at the time same there is also discrimination in Ifa, within traditional Ifa practice women are not allowed within the Egungun society,they are not even allowed to next to the egun, there are also Ifa priest who are very money hungry just like in Santeria,
Ifa is about inclusion. Fearing or disliking all "whites" is no less irrational than those who fear or dislike all "blacks." Feel free to dislike me...but base that on disagreement with what I say...not the color of my skin. We all were African in the beginning...adaptations for the amount of sunlight we were exposed to in the lands we ventured to has nothing to do with character, value or potential. You are fighting yesterday's war.
with all of the many things you observed that were negative or bad about santeria from, im assuming, your superiors did you ever think that maybe it was just a bad babalawo? a lot of my family members are ok with not being a part of santeria anymore because of the discrimination and the scheming that occurd. but ive found a babalawo that holds nothing back from me and im starting to think that its just the babalawos that had their own personal hang ups and gave the religion a bad name.
Thank you for taking the time to post this video, but I don't think that Lucumi and Santeria should be linked like that. Yes they are essentially the same practice, but Lucumi has taken out the Catholic imagery and prayers.
It is heartening that your experience is different, and I applaud you. Nevertheless, there really is no academic or practical difference between Santeria and Lucumi. Lucumi was simply the name given to African Slaves way of speaking the Yoruba language.
You are stuck in your own racial prejuidice...another difference between Africans and Black Americans, Suggesting they are the same is like suggesting that David Koresh represented traditional Christianity. Your emotional needs to believe it is so, do not make it so.
Not being Yoruba is hardly a mix of beliefs...try and keep your thinking logical. If you would be specific as to what "Western" concepts the Foundation has included that would be in conflict with logical Yoruba beliefs, I would be happy to answer you. I DO deal in semantics. Words have specific meanings. I am quite cldear on mine. Perhaps you could get clearer on yours?
You really should think before you write. Item 1. Santeria will not initiate women as Ifa priests. Ifa has, and continues to initiate women as Ifa priests for thousands of years. Item 2. Santeria will not knowingly initiate homosexuals as Ifa priests. Ifa has NO such tenet. I could go on and on and on. The two are different is beyond question. PS You don't have to be a Yoruba to understand the differences or to use your brain!
It would depend upon how it is practiced. If it follows the basic Truths, worldview, inclusion as traditional African Ifa, then it would be logical, empowering and effective. If it followed the fear, gender and sexual discrimination, and secrecy of Santeria/Lucumi, it would be disempowering and illogical.
Fear, secrecy and hierarchy is what makes a ritual effective. It draws energy from the participants as to make the beyond visible. That's why in Cuba and other places there is real witchcraft that produces actual results unlike in America, where it is stripped of all these elements to fit with "civilization" and become just a philosophy. The same happened with Tao in asia and many other esoteric practices.
@odukeeper I agree with you- I've had a bad experience in Santeria...I've received my guerreros, elekes, Olokun, & Scratched in Palo- Have finally fallen out with my Padrinos... couldn't take any more of the crazy control crap... Odukeeper I want to involve myself in the foundation... thank you so much...Alafia Iboya iburu ....
How can you claim there where virtually no Babalawos in the United states back 36 years ago ?? There was Ifa Morette Pancho Mora , Jose Campos , Bebo Morales, Carlos Ojeda. Bobby Bolufer, Diego Fontala Gerardo Valdez Luciano Canto and many more .... you are painting a one sided picture to benefit yourself ....
Are babalawo's not the priests of IFA ?? How can you separate IFA from Lucumi or IFa from Nigeria ?? IFA is IFA , Or are you saying that the babalawos in Cuba and here in the United states are not practicing , IFA ??
I AM saying that the two follow almost totally different initiations, worldview, method of divination, views on the equality of women, gays and other groups. Those differences make it impossible to suggest they are the same.
Not only don't you LISTEN to the video, you don't even read the other comments. I NEVER said there were virtually no Babalawo's" back then in the United States. I Said there "ere virtually NO IFA Babalawos" back then. Notice that almost every name you use is Latin? As in Santeria/Lucimi...Open your mind, not just your mouth
In the Lucumi's have a long way of catching up. They lost alot of they secrets to preserve the orisa religion. They keep crowning the same orisa over and over again due to lack of knowlege. The keep doing Oya,ogun,esu,sango,yemonja ect.. When have you ever been to a lucumi function and seen Nana buruku come down? Or iroko, yewa (ewa),Osain, Oba, Logun ede, Olubaye, Ode, Oba,osunmare,different roads of sango i.e the white cloth of sango, different lines oya.
hairygreek39 6 months ago
Yes we have influence from the Congo but thats because when slaves arrived in Cuba they were seperated from family and paired off with strangers from other tribes. These couples later had children so of course the children kept both traditions alive.Yoruba/Congo... Its no coincidence that the Oddu that was read when they arrived was Oguna Masa (In unity is strength...) You cant discriminate against all lucumi santeros just becuase u may have landed in a bad house..
perle42 8 months ago
@perle42 no one divined when they "first" arrived. Do you think they allowed those they were enslaving to bring their religious items with them? Indded they immediately batizes each and every African.
odukeeper 7 months ago
I LOVE Orumila!!! IFA is BEAUTIFUL!!!
LaMorenasaa 1 year ago
I agree that there are many Santeros who are assholes but at the time same there is also discrimination in Ifa, within traditional Ifa practice women are not allowed within the Egungun society,they are not even allowed to next to the egun, there are also Ifa priest who are very money hungry just like in Santeria,
selbabraba 1 year ago
Is what you call Santaria Lucumi the same as what is called Ocha or La Religion?
ireradly 1 year ago
@ireradly yes
odukeeper 1 year ago
santeria is for fucking freaks
TheDank1887 1 year ago 2
OMG!!!This is going to my favs.
Junior1luv 2 years ago
Ifa is about inclusion. Fearing or disliking all "whites" is no less irrational than those who fear or dislike all "blacks." Feel free to dislike me...but base that on disagreement with what I say...not the color of my skin. We all were African in the beginning...adaptations for the amount of sunlight we were exposed to in the lands we ventured to has nothing to do with character, value or potential. You are fighting yesterday's war.
odukeeper 2 years ago
@odukeeper Agreed. I'm white and I'm studying Vodou.
pheonixshaman 1 year ago
with all of the many things you observed that were negative or bad about santeria from, im assuming, your superiors did you ever think that maybe it was just a bad babalawo? a lot of my family members are ok with not being a part of santeria anymore because of the discrimination and the scheming that occurd. but ive found a babalawo that holds nothing back from me and im starting to think that its just the babalawos that had their own personal hang ups and gave the religion a bad name.
desicuellar 2 years ago 2
we santeros practice the religion that was born in CUBA . when the lucumi and catholic mix. It is ours , and really has nothing to do with yours
elchino0924 2 years ago
I totally agree. It is others that would have people believe they are the same.
odukeeper 2 years ago
Alafia,
Thank you for taking the time to post this video, but I don't think that Lucumi and Santeria should be linked like that. Yes they are essentially the same practice, but Lucumi has taken out the Catholic imagery and prayers.
Blessings,
wytchin 2 years ago
It is heartening that your experience is different, and I applaud you. Nevertheless, there really is no academic or practical difference between Santeria and Lucumi. Lucumi was simply the name given to African Slaves way of speaking the Yoruba language.
odukeeper 2 years ago
You are stuck in your own racial prejuidice...another difference between Africans and Black Americans, Suggesting they are the same is like suggesting that David Koresh represented traditional Christianity. Your emotional needs to believe it is so, do not make it so.
odukeeper 2 years ago
Comment removed
OrisaNeteru 2 years ago
Comment removed
OrisaNeteru 2 years ago
Comment removed
OrisaNeteru 2 years ago
Not being Yoruba is hardly a mix of beliefs...try and keep your thinking logical. If you would be specific as to what "Western" concepts the Foundation has included that would be in conflict with logical Yoruba beliefs, I would be happy to answer you. I DO deal in semantics. Words have specific meanings. I am quite cldear on mine. Perhaps you could get clearer on yours?
odukeeper 2 years ago
Comment removed
OrisaNeteru 2 years ago
You really should think before you write. Item 1. Santeria will not initiate women as Ifa priests. Ifa has, and continues to initiate women as Ifa priests for thousands of years. Item 2. Santeria will not knowingly initiate homosexuals as Ifa priests. Ifa has NO such tenet. I could go on and on and on. The two are different is beyond question. PS You don't have to be a Yoruba to understand the differences or to use your brain!
odukeeper 2 years ago
Comment removed
OrisaNeteru 2 years ago
If Lucumi Santeria is a bastardization in your eyes ... then what is American IFA ???
otaomi 2 years ago 2
It would depend upon how it is practiced. If it follows the basic Truths, worldview, inclusion as traditional African Ifa, then it would be logical, empowering and effective. If it followed the fear, gender and sexual discrimination, and secrecy of Santeria/Lucumi, it would be disempowering and illogical.
odukeeper 2 years ago
Fear, secrecy and hierarchy is what makes a ritual effective. It draws energy from the participants as to make the beyond visible. That's why in Cuba and other places there is real witchcraft that produces actual results unlike in America, where it is stripped of all these elements to fit with "civilization" and become just a philosophy. The same happened with Tao in asia and many other esoteric practices.
karloshaman 2 years ago
What childish nonsense. You like the constant psychodrama? You like living in fear? Be my guest...but it has NOTHING to do with Ifa
odukeeper 2 years ago
hey where s the babalas in chicago
GyasiNgozi 2 years ago
@odukeeper I agree with you- I've had a bad experience in Santeria...I've received my guerreros, elekes, Olokun, & Scratched in Palo- Have finally fallen out with my Padrinos... couldn't take any more of the crazy control crap... Odukeeper I want to involve myself in the foundation... thank you so much...Alafia Iboya iburu ....
Sinanthir 1 year ago
How can you claim there where virtually no Babalawos in the United states back 36 years ago ?? There was Ifa Morette Pancho Mora , Jose Campos , Bebo Morales, Carlos Ojeda. Bobby Bolufer, Diego Fontala Gerardo Valdez Luciano Canto and many more .... you are painting a one sided picture to benefit yourself ....
otaomi 2 years ago 4
I didn't "claim" that. I said IFA Babalawo, not Santeria/Lucumi
odukeeper 2 years ago
Are babalawo's not the priests of IFA ?? How can you separate IFA from Lucumi or IFa from Nigeria ?? IFA is IFA , Or are you saying that the babalawos in Cuba and here in the United states are not practicing , IFA ??
otaomi 2 years ago 3
I AM saying that the two follow almost totally different initiations, worldview, method of divination, views on the equality of women, gays and other groups. Those differences make it impossible to suggest they are the same.
odukeeper 2 years ago
Not only don't you LISTEN to the video, you don't even read the other comments. I NEVER said there were virtually no Babalawo's" back then in the United States. I Said there "ere virtually NO IFA Babalawos" back then. Notice that almost every name you use is Latin? As in Santeria/Lucimi...Open your mind, not just your mouth
odukeeper 2 years ago