Macdonald Academy: Backsword vs Spanish Rapier

[Haartian]

Isn't this a bit... slow?

[Kinds3Magi]

Please don't let your sword tip touch the ground. Otherwise very well done! I kept watching to see if the true cross could be obtained. Awesome job guys!

[Billythewookie]

The Rapier fencer uses the classic pointed stick defence. Point the end of your blade in their face and they can't come near you. The other fencer must remove the point before attacking. Mind you in classical fencing he could just use his hand.

[prigual]

What is the Spanish rapier ?? IN Spain we don't know about history ..:p

[themailman43]

@prigual The Rapier sword was created in Spain at the beginning of the 16th century and the original name for it was " Espada ropera", or clothing sword. Before that time nobody carried swords , except soldiers. In Spain gentlemen of the aristocracy started carrying it and that fashion soon spread through out Europe.

[gpalmamrw]

@prigual espada ropera.

[czarfnord]

Yawn. Fight, don't feign.

[psolouno]

Sorry but they lack rythm and speed. Look for this: La verdadera destreza. You'll find an example there.

Adorea is also very good.

[amritatva]

Excellet demonstration, thanks for posting.

[Porfinnr]

I'm italian and so I have some problem with the translation of technical terms... Waht is the backsword? What is the the difference between it and a broadsword?

[jacobite80]

@Porfinnr it refers to the type of blade, a backsword is a blade that is single edged, the back edge may have about 6inches of a sharp edge from the point. This design can make a sharper blade

[Porfinnr]

@jacobite80 thanks,

[talanhawke]

Until you get two practitioners of equal skill and different styles into the same room to fight it out, you really can't know which is the better style. And how do you decide what "equal skill" involves in such widely different forms?

It's not the style that matters so much as the person wielding the blade. "Modern" styles might indeed not match up to older styles (I personally don't believe itheywould), but to mock others' opinions when you have no personal basis for it is childish and unwise.

[leopurpleman]

Spanish fencing is the best in the world?..untrue because in the world's history stated that Ferdinand Magellan were killed in Mactan Island by Local Kali practitioner (Moro warrior) that's mean what?..did you get that?...

[murrayro]

@leopurpleman Even the worst fencers get lucky from time to time. To say that a system of fencing is not as good as another because of one duel is like saying that Tm Brady is better than Bret Favre (ten years ago) because of the last touchdown pass Brady threw. The Destreza was so good that their system didn't change substantially for 200 years, not until the swords changed. What that means is the system worked better than any other system for years until other systems evolved.

[mgalvarez04]

@leopurpleman get your history right, Magellan was killed by poison arrows, javellins, and bamboo spears..a handful of Spaniards against thousands of islanders ...kali my ass

[SrNutritivo]

@leopurpleman yeah, for that spaniards rule the philipines for almost four centuries, 2 years of travel far away from spain in on wooden ships... In that era people around glove know you never underestimate an spaniard and his sword

[mechupanlamonda]

@leopurpleman in other chronicles it was stated he was killed by several warriors, whether it is true or not, it doesn't matter. a lot of native american warriors killed spanish conquitadors, that doesn't mean their fighting tecnique was superior. it depends on the person, not the style. how do you know magallan was a master of la verdadera destreza? even if he were, doesn't prove anything, as the lapu lapu, or the other warriors, who killed were better than him, but better no because of their

[mechupanlamonda]

@leopurpleman martials art. what about the other members of the magallan expedition? the oens that survive, they didn't have the advantage of their cannons, because their ships were far. they probably use their arquebus, but only one shot and then what? my point is they fought kali warriors in hand to hand combat and survive. and i may add this does not prove one martial arts is better than the other one; both, escrima/kali and la verdadera destreza, are great martials arts.

[jazzgott]

funny ;)

[acerb45666555]

his blade is very short! he has an advantage. grab the opponents sword arm and move up close for a thrust! or quickly duck under his rapier and thrust!

[deazujuma]

pathetic!!!! why does youtube have to be filled with fakes who dont understand anything about fighting, fencing , and the like so they come up with this bullshit. I think i could kick these guys asses with a garden hose

[jacobite80]

@deazujuma try it

[Macdonaldacademy]

@deazujuma You are welcome to Academy anytime.

[MegaGlueman]

@deazujuma Oh really? I'd like to see you try that. You do know know that this is like a true duel to the death, not a match with the mindset of "if I lose, this goes on my record", right? A person who did not judge his opponent correctly, did not take the time to consider his moves, and did not work with caution would be a dead person, not just a beaten. Now maybe you are really good, congrats! You have my respect. But as you have no videos showing your skills, I cannot know for sure.

[Quillons1]

The salute is a little much, boys. Bravo on keeping the form alive though.

[Macdonaldacademy]

@Quillons1 Our Academy salute is based on an original C17th - C18th backsword salute, which we have adopted according to our method. Thanks for your comment.

[dios1conquistador]

Spanish fencing is the best in the world, no more to say :) Long live the conquistadors!

[acerb45666555]

@dios1conquistador ...........a Spanish Rapier is nothing to a Highland Broadsword! all you would see is a flurry of motion, a snapped rapier on the ground, and the dust of a fellow running back to Toledo! Long Live the Scots! :)

[madlarkin8]

In a one on one fight i would try to close the distance as fast as possible using the forearm for protection, then I would use only decapitating slashes or ankle slashes followed by decapitating slashes. I would undoubtedly be cut up but if against a fencer i would win. However i do understand that fencing has a bit less violence, but the type of aggressiveness would benefit the sport i think. Too many lulls in combat leads to a bad spectator sport. A master should have the endurance to continue

[bitchwacky]

this is classical fencing not modern. so it is based on a martial art in where it was designed to defend and kill. they are taking their time because they are dueling therefore the looser dies. Olympic fencing is a spectator sport and it is just that a sport it was an abortion formed and really destroyed all of the masters hard work.

[SamStuart07]

@bitchwacky I coach modern fencing. I dont think it destroyed all the masters hard work. I believe it is another branch off the fencing martial arts tree. If it wasnt for these sport fencing masters the sport and fencing would have died centuries ago. However, i do love these historical fencing schools. Nice to see revitalization of the old days of fencing and not the SCA verison of it.

[riflepoet]

@bitchwacky Utter nonsense. Modern fencing footwork alone trumps these sideway walking ducks ten times over. And it is an evolution of this stuff.

[TheKNH86]

@riflepoet You sir are a moron. So-called "Modern Fencing" is a load of half-baked bollocks that would never survive it's first real battle.

[bitchwacky]

@riflepoet its Laser tag. Thats like saying Tai Bo is a martial arts.

[PonchoELnachoo]

@bitchwacky I kind've agree with you. While modern fencing is not like it was back during the rennassance, it still holds some aspects of the old masters

[bitchwacky]

@PonchoELnachoo its too fast paced. Its based on points not on tactical advantage. there is no danger aspect to it these men are fighting as if their life depends on it not for points

[JoeShoe1121]

@bitchwacky lolz. This is a comment someone makes if they fail at modern fencing.

[bitchwacky]

@JoeShoe1121 never did Modern Fencing i did do classical fencing. Modern is Laser Tag.

[Irmasterlol]

@bitchwacky At least one of those guys has a blunt rubber tip. I don't see how this could be a fight to the death.

[bitchwacky]

@Irmasterlol looser gets raped i dont know what to tell you man. Ever think of not being a douche?

[Irmasterlol]

@bitchwacky All I'm doing is refuting your claim that your version of fencing is a fight to the death. It's funny how 'Historical fencing' enthusiasts get so smug about the superiority of their fencing against real fencing. Honestly, if I had noticed your comment was two years old, I would have held my peace.

[vexillifer]

Not trying to discourage you or anything but this is a bit lame. All those theatrical poses and dramatic pauses. What's that thing at the very beginning? Some kind of musketeer salute? Basic mistakes: attacking opponent's sword rather than his body, tall guy exposing himself all the time (too tired to hold the sword up?), short guy doing the exact same thing (why such high guard?). In short too much trying to look like a musketeer, too little actual fighting. Seek advice from professional fencer

[crataegus1976]

I have to disagree. First of all, inn a real fight, where you were risking your life... would you attack wasting your energy constantly, without being afraid of being kill by your enemy's sword, if you make a mistake? We're used to watch historical fencing bouts a little "sportized", but I think this is another approach to the art. Maybe I am not very good at HF, and still don't know enough, but I always heard good things about the MacDonald Academy Do you really think they're not proffesional?

[vexillifer]

OK, you're probably right about being cautious and stuff. I was a bit unfair.

[vexillifer]

Oh, I'm sure they are professional allright. But I wonder what it actually means to be 'professional' in this context. Can you be a professional mevieval knight or early modern fencer? I often get the feeling that reenactors of all denominations take themselves way too seriously. They're like those alternative medicine guys who want to be treated like trained doctors. Don't get me wrong - I really admire people who put so much effort into pursuing their hobbies but why so serious?

[crataegus1976]

This time I agree with you partly. Of course, no one can take himself as a professional in Historical Fencing, because there are no masters alive. But I am sure that if any one could seem like "professionals", they're people like these ones, just because they take their interpretation seriously. Sorry for the use of English but I am a Spaniard. Cheers!

[Tehinke]

There are people who work full time running historical fencing schools, Guy Windsor in Finland for example. That would be considered professional if anything.

[bitchwacky]

In response to that why do people learn karate and become movie stars? This was western martial arts which was developed at almost the same time if not before the asian systems. In classical fencing like this you were trained by a master in the martial art of defending yourself and killing the opponent. A professional is a master much like a blackbelt. So therefore why would you downplay it they learned the work of the masters.

[Lathspell77]

They are using a rapier, that is a weapon used in Spain from mid 16 to early 19 th, and in the rest of europe from 16 to mid 18th, when backsword started to be widely used.

Dagger is not a must in spanish school, it's an option, as using a cloak.

If you make a research in real spanish treatises, most of them give only a few directions on rapier-dagger fencing, most of the "tretas" or movings are without an off-hand weapon.

[bitchwacky]

an offhand weapon will not really help you if you are fighting against a spanish system. because they will take you on the traverse step on the outside line. that is where the dagger would be useless

[6U4RD1AN]

that steve dude is awful!!!

he does´nt make justice to the destreza.

[loahnuh]

I disagree it was much better watching steve, he was the one in control of the fight and he didn't waste much movement unlike mike.

[BlueBluszcz]

is this a stage combat practise?

It have to be is much much to slow for a fight, and boring as hell...

I mean why this guy with rapier is pointless walking araund ?

[Yarbols]

the "walking around" is establishing a new line. think spanish rapier is weak? try fencing one. If you're looking for action go watch a lord of tht rings movie... if you want to see how to control a blade intentionally expect to see things much more like this.

[BlueBluszcz]

i fence spanish rapier, but i`m not trying to explein my leizness with "controling a blade".

Fackt is that you can control blade make all fencing actions MUCH FASTER AND NOT STANDING STRAIGHT.

Your slow, your not take use of enemy mistakes.... its lame

[kit40]

The fellow with the backsword made pretty good use of the St. George guard.

[Salchichonide]

I really like the spanish style (Destreza).

[elricshad]

is this the Macdonald academy that Paul runs in Scotland?

[jacobite80]

Yes it is

[MrPotatoesLatkie]

Interesting. What type of blades are you using on either sword?

[heidernk]

wow Viva España

Sin duda el estilo español es más elegante!

Supongo que en cuanto eficacia dependerá de cada espadachín

Without doubt the spanish style ("destreza") seems more elegant.

I suposse that efectiveness depends on each swordman

Great video

[Seishiro84]

I have to praise the Spanish system's ready stance. It is a very effective psychological warfare tool.

[eniel1007]

That spanish ready stance is far fom effective. It's unstable, make it hard to go backwards and definitely not fast. It is comfortable, though, but not practical.

[HariSseldonn]

¿Sure?

Type "Manolo contra Bomprezzi".

[HariSseldonn]

Search "manolo contra Bomprezzi" in youtube, I mean.

[Lathspell77]

Spanish stance fits it's style, it's useless when you try it with another fencing style. Destreza doesn't use too much backward steps, instead it uses "compases" or "extraños" to get the same effect, get out of the enemy's sword way.

About fastness, it's fast, devilish fast, but with movement economy.

[christopheclugston]

What the real Spanish Circle was for duelling: cut and thrust swrod nearly 4 feet long and a dager that was nearly 2 feet long. Using lihghter modern blades without real injury is about as real as Point Karate is to MMA. Did everyone understand that analogy?

[Lathspell77]

Actually in historic fencing we use replicas of the 16-17th century swords. Not only they have the proper lenght and dimensions, they are heavier for being blunt (normally the edges are 3 mm wide, and the swords have a button at the point)

And of course there is not risk of a real injury, as there were no risk of that when a 17th century fencer trained. We use real fencing treaties.

[christopheclugston]

IN the video they are not using 15th century cut and thrust (Spanish school used cut and thrust), nor are they using daggers. Again, about as real as point Karate is to real fighting.