Notre Dame Cathedral Pipe Organ Messiaen Dieu Parmi Nous

[The48robert]

It's the performer and his understanding I'm not liking!

[brearleyhb]

i think latry is better i think, he uses the stops much more fluently :-)- in my humble opinion :-).

[MegaDani141]

I think it should be a little faster, like Oliver Latrys version..........

BUT nice rangs..... ^^

[dolofonos]

Either I have bad taste, or this is bad music.

[MoomiaMenazes]

@dolofonos :

You have no taste at all.

[Auriga37]

My father and I once walked into Notre Dame, not knowing that an organ recital was in progress. It seemed as if half the Parisian population was there, and they didn't notice us at all. We had an unforgettable dinner on one of "Les Bateaux Mouches" the same evening. Curious that one's featured at the beginning of the montage. (I've also heard this piece several times in recitals, and it's absolutely overpowering).

[TheCatedral]

L'une des meilleures interprétations - peut-être la meilleure après celle de Monsieur Olivier Messiaen de son oeuvre - que l'on puisse trouver de ce chef-d'oeuvre. Le génie de Cochereau adjoint à la lumineuse créativité effervescente et pleine de vie et de foi de Messiaen: Quelle merveille!

[ds1868]

@violinolapiano115 Most probably. The Notre Dame has four independent 'quint' stops on the pedal - these are mutated stops sounding a fundamental 'fifth' harmonic, all four in different octaves - 10 2/3, 5 1/3, 2 2/3 and 1 1/3. This organ also has a very famous mutated flat twenty-first in the 32' register, a Septieme 4 4/7.

[MrAlex413x]

@ds1868 hello , i dont understand what a quint is can you please explain i adore all 32' stops specialy when its comeing from notre dam ! (btw im not an organist im just very intrested in the instrument ) thankyou

[ds1868]

@MrAlex413x A quint (or 'fifth') is a mutated flue stop sounding a fundamental fifth tone through the scale. So a manual 5 1/3 stop is will sound a fundamental fifth from the scale of an 8' stop, an octave quint 2 2/3 will correspondingly sound an octave higher etc. Mutated flute stops have different names: mutated fifth flute is called a Nazard, a mutated third flute a tierce, and especially on French organs a mutated flat twenty-first is called a Septieme. Notre Dame has many mutated stops!!!

[ds1868]

@MrAlex413x Continued: However, when you couple a mutation to a lower scale rank, (i.e if you couple a 10 2/3 Quint to a 16' Principal or Subbass) weird things begin to happen, Strong sub-harmonics develop much lower down the frequency, to 32' pitch or even lower. This is often called 'derived' or 'resultant' harmonics, and can be extremely effective. Cochereau's favourite was to tie the 4 4/7 Septieme to the 16' Contrabasse at Notre Dame: this has the effect of a chorus of double basses.

[brianwilson49]

have to say that if you dont find messiaen's music to be sensual you may have missed something - listen to 'o sacrum convivium'. IMO of course.

[megaswenson]

That's the most astonishing photo at the end. Aside from the rays of Celestial light, it's the best photo I've seen, showing the Cathedral as a whole.

Great visuals, and, of course, a fantastic work of music. Thanks!

[silverstartrucker]

Yes: I do like this.

[Lightandgold]

I'm not sure why so many performers choose to rush the toccata at the end. Have they even bothered to listen the composer playing his own music? It's meditative and prayerful, not stringendo and pushing.

[tubamaxima]

I attempted to play Messiaen but gave up. I watched Francois Houbart play "Outburst of Joy" and he made it look easy.

[polsterj]

Never liked this piece.

But Cochereau made me change my opinion totally!

Sounds like being horriously difficult to play, I agree that this is why it's not heard so often. It's a perfect piece for an organist to leave a great name at the end of a concert.

[OrganNLou]

Love the piece, dont like the organ much. I know this is the unaltered(?)Cavaille-Coll, was always too bright for me. I love this performed on the St. Ouen orgue.

[ProfessorSmazz]

eh.

I'm not happy with the tempo on the

ending toccata. It's way to rushed, and

gets really muddy throughout there.

One of my favorite interpretations of this

is actually by Mary Preston,

maybe I should post it...

[Sesquiltera]

Bach stands at the beginning of organ music, Messiaen at the end.

[HHDougyT]

i'm sorry bout i totally disagree about people not liking messiaen... if they are proper organists they'll play messiaen... perhaps its due to the fact today that there aren't many proper organists and ones who play pianistically which often result in not a very good performance musically...

[Ophicleide4]

You cannot define a 'proper' organist due to their taste.

[MarkHarmer]

Utterly wonderful - with the pictures too. What an amazing sound!

[britandveg]

Astonishingly beautiful!

[lamsalgado]

Messiaen is wonderful. When almost nobody else thought that there was nothing else to compose in tonal language, then Messiaen came and showed us all a whole new world. Long live the memory of this great great master.---Luiz

[EccentricRichard]

Messiaen's popularity is far from on the wane: if anything, it is greater than ever. The huge coverage last year helped, with much literature being talked about and even a huge symposium being held. As it is, I've become more interested in Messiaen lately, and have been trying to interest friends.

[wally5353]

Very nice to hear a performance by a French virtuouso on a magnificent historical instrument. How can anyone listen to this and say Messiaen is not "sensual"?

[a55b47]

Believe me, you're not the first person to question my evaluation ;-)

[ronanmurray]

@a55b47 Thanks for posting this wonderful recording. If anything, I'd say Messiaen is far more sensual than intellectual! It's music that needs to be "felt" much more than analysed on an academic or theoretical level.

[ds1868]

I don't think you can really call this an 'historical instrument' any longer, I'm afraid. It may have been in this recording, but not today, as it's been chopped and changed so much in the last 'restoration' in the early 90s.

[ds1868]

I stand corrected on my earlier comment - the Robert Boisseau chamades make there dramatic presence felt in the final statements of this recording. Can you confirm the date of the recording a55b47? Was it late 70's? Totally devastating stuff, please can the NDdeP authorities get the Robert Boisseau chamades back to where they were please???

[a55b47]

ds, see above ceomment re recording date. Sorry I can't be more help; I got rid of the original LP many years ago, when I transferred all my old LP's to CD (& now CD's are out-of-date ;-)

[aamusc]

Is this the 1977 recording? I've just learned about it last Sunday. We've been having quite a lot of Messiaen playing in Ann Arbor lately. If it is the 1977, then I'm blessed to have access to it here! Thanks.

[a55b47]

I wish I could tell you, but I'm not sure. I bought the old LP in the early 1980's (I think), &, unlike most of the Cochereau recoridngs, it didn't have the recording date listed. I don't think it was one of the Solstice recordings that Francois Carbou produced, or it would have had the date; mayber it was Philips? In any event, given the date of purchase, it could have well been the '77 recording.

[aamusc]

I am satisfied with your answer. Given the dates, it probably is what I heard-which was very moving indeed. I could try to look up the recording that I heard again.

[madlutist]

Most pieces sound pleasant. Many pieces send chills up my spine. A few pieces move me to tears.

It is a select few that contain so much emotion and power that I am incapable of any outward response, and this is one of those pieces.

[TrompenCham167]

The most stunning Cavaille-Coll Organ EVER! Are the chamades origional C-C? They really are spectacular!

[BeFrSc]

No they aren't, they were put in when during a rebuild sometime during Cocherau's reign, but I believe there still are C-C reeds in that Organ.

[keraulophone]

The chamades - a Chamade 8', a Chamade 4' and a Régale en Chamade 2'-16' - were added in the 1960's by Boisseau.

During the restauration of 1992 this stops were altered - they are not as 'bity' as they are in this recording any longer - and two new chamade stops were added to the organ: a Trompette Harmonique 8' and a Clairon Harmonique 4' which are both copies of the C-C chamades at the St-Sernin in Toulouse.

[CoutureOrganiste]

Almost sounded like he played a 5th in the pedal at the end.

[EinSofVirtuoso]

In my opinion I say Messiaen's works convey the austere and grandness of God, in an intellectul, sensual, and most of all, spiritual way. Especially his Meditationes de le Trinite sancte, whatever its called, one finds it just damn scary..lol. But isn't the majesty of God unknowable. As it says in the Bible, those who see God die. But through Messiaen, we can kinda through Sound. What the spirit finds calming, the Body finds calamity and disorientation. That is why his music is incomprehensible.

[osmankemalosmankemal]

i understand that it is your opinion that Messiaen is more an "intellectual" composer, but i think that he creates a new spiritual language through his music--something for our time, in particular. you should listen to Turangallila Symphonie--if that isn't sensual, i don't know what is! thanks for posting this piece.

[rloomis3]

Rather than saying Messiaen is a "difficult composer to like," I would say that he's an acquired taste. But man, once you acquire it, there's nothing like it!

I would also take issue with your statement that Messiaen's popularity has waned. If anything, since his death his music has become much more frequently performed. (Maybe people feel more comfortable listening to dead composers -- who knows.) I hope you'll keep trying to acquire the taste for his music -- it's worth it!

[BeFrSc]

I completely agree with you, Messiaen's music is an acquired taste because of his style, but once it grows on you, its fantastic, there's no other music like it, its similar with Vierne, a lot of Organists don't like performing his music because of the chromaticism, but I think its beautiful, Vierne has to be my favourite composer, with Messiaen not far behind.

[ds1868]

Simply do not agree with regard to Cochereau being 'too old' for this music. This is an early recording of Cochereau, before the Boisseau Chamades were added in the mid-60s. Cochereau is not 'rushing' through the score, there is degrees of 'contemplation' before the 'devastation' that finally follows. I would admit that I'm biased - I'm a PC fan, but I think here he gets it about right. I wonder if he made a later recording of this piece a la Chamades?

[keraulophone]

This IS a recording of the piece a la Chamades. He has coupled them to the pedal.

[cliveso]

i admire cochereau a lot, but after listening, i'm afraid i have to say he might be too old for this music, and he sounded like virgil fox. :(

[handelfan610]

how is sounding like virgil fox a bad thing..i honestly don't see what people have against fox... i'd kill to play like him.

[cliveso]

nothing wrong with showmanship, but it needs to be tasteful. take Cameron Carpenter - he has a much better taste and technique.

[haholol]

you're too harsh lol....cochereau didn't miss nearly as many notes as fox would have

[cliveso]

thanks very much for uploading. i've never imagined cochereau play this. i've made my day!

[marti807]

Excellent!

[Organiste06]

Great!

I love how Cochereau interprets the beginning.

[chamade16]

I couldn't disagree more! You don't get more sensual than Turangalîla-Symphonie, or the Preludes, or Vision de l'Amen, or many movements of Livre du Saint Sacrement... the list is pretty long.

Granted, OM dabbled in total serialism, but he rejected it.

[a55b47]

I guess I'll just have to listen harder ;-).

(Or maybe listen LESS hard.)

[chamade16]

Hehe ;-) Just go with the flow! And avoid Livre d'Orgue (well, apart from Les yeux dans les roues, which is terrifyingly wonderful). May I suggest starting with the slow mvt of Turangalîla (Jardin du Sommeil d'amour)? Post-orgasmic stuff...

[chamade16]

Hehe ;-) Just go with the flow! And avoid Livre d'Orgue (well, apart from Les yeux dans les roues, which is terrifyingly wonderful). May I suggest beginning with the slow mvt of Turangalîla (Jardin du Sommeil d'amour)? Hot, sticky, post-orgasmic stuff...

[a55b47]

OK!OK! You've convinced me! ;-) I'm keeping my ears (& mind open). But it'll be a while before I can start your experiment.  I'm too busy right now uploading all my old LP's.

[ufni3p]

Nonetheless, I realy like your video's and always looking forword what's coming next,so ceep up the good work! Thanks

[ufni3p]

Dieu parmi nous isn't realy that difficult in comparison with other pieces of Messiaen.

Messiaen wrote in his Technique de mon language musical that he most of all wanted to make beautiful music that moved people,so his intentions were absolutaly not pure intelectual...