Natural Dog Training Quantum Canine Eye Contact Part 1

[quantumcanine]

I agree that we have exhausted our ability to communicate. Onward.

[sebjohns]

I propose, Quantum Canine, that you may want to stop responding to Prometheans Fire. It's too bad, cause it's a public forum and it's a good idea to respond to people who are challenging you, but this guy has to learn some basic manners. You'd think he must have been "conditioned" as a child to be polite, so I guess the argument has been worth something -- he has become a prime example of how that conditioning can fail.

I've enjoyed your responses, Quantum Canine.

[quantumcanine]

Indeed, a brain is a terrible thing to waste.

[PrometheansFire]

Brain, not mind.

[quantumcanine]

So then what's going on inside the dogs' mind?

[PrometheansFire]

You have a perverted view of the meaning of scientific. Please learn the definition - hey another product of human thought... like science.. like english

It is not a projection. It is a description.

[quantumcanine]

Exactly, it is a description of behavior based on a human concept, in other words, the projection of a thought onto an animal and therefore not scientific.

[quantumcanine]

I'm don't use words like dominance, threat, territoriality, which are human thoughts.

[PrometheansFire]

You use words like sit, come, down, which are also human thoughts.

"Dominance" is not a human thought - it is a description of certain behaviors. Same for the others.

[quantumcanine]

According to my high school physics text, thanks for asking, energy is the capacity to do work. That's exactly how I'm using the term, albeit more specifically as an action potential, just like a neuron. When the animal does work, I observe it without imposing human thoughts on what I'm observing. Whereas behaviorists divine intention and thereby miss the principles by which the "work" works.

[PrometheansFire]

Actually you are the one imposing your own interpretation onto the dog. The whole affective-mumbo jumbo energy that you talk about

What's worse is that the emotional framework that buttresses your religions rests squarely on the shoulders of anthropomorphic(with a bit of magical) thinking.

[quantumcanine]

Energy is an action potential, an inequality of force that moves through charged carriers according to inherent principles of conductivity.

[PrometheansFire]

Your definition of energy is again incorrect. Do you have access to high school science books so you can correct yourself before posting?

[quantumcanine]

I am not modifying the innate attraction, I am triggering it. I am not conditioning the innate attraction because I don't have to, it's innate. Whatever happens, the innate attraction cannot be modified because it is the very basis of animal consciousness. Animals do not learn in terms of pleasure or displeasure, they experience pleasure or displeasure relative to the quality and quantity of energy they experience. They learn according to principles of energy.

[PrometheansFire]

No you are not triggering it. The dog already moves and would move without you there. Maybe you haven't noticed but dogs don't need you around to move and climb into things.

100 years of animal cognition prove that you are wrong about the way animals learn.

Since you haven't operationally defined energy, anything you have to say on it is a waste of bandwidth

[quantumcanine]

I reward the dog with food to strengthen the connection, not to create the connection. Are you therefore saying that when one disturbs a bees nest and it takes the bees a few moments to locate the source of the disturbance that this is a process of conditioning?

[PrometheansFire]

I said what I said. I do not use false analogies to derail and avoid the issue.

The definintion of OC:

"A process of behavior modification in which the likelihood of a specific behavior is increased or decreased through positive or negative reinforcement each time the behavior is exhibited, so that the subject comes to associate the pleasure or displeasure of the reinforcement with the behavior."

Which corresponds to what you are doing.

[PrometheansFire]

How can you argue it's not conditioned? It's strict behavior-consequence scenario. There is nothing negative or positive (as you use the terms) about this.

The fact that you have to reward the eye contact means you are conditioning the dog to look at your eyes.

[quantumcanine]

It's not Operant Conditioning because it doesn't have to be conditioned. It's automatic, spontaneous, involuntary and yet not a reflex because it's totally flexible to the energetic parameters of any given situation.

[PrometheansFire]

Seems to me that this is by the book OC, nothing special about it.