Kahr PM9 Review - Won't Rack with Full (Kahr) Magazine. Full backup magazines can lose rounds.

[whitato1]

After reading through all these posts it is obvious to me most people have not had firearms safety training. Only paranoid fools, idiots and people with a death wish have a round chambered. Get some safety training and you'll see the many reasons why you NEVER have a round chambered in these weapons.

[Coyote65]

I've read on the Kahr forums and here on youtube if you look up gb6491 youtube channel there is a fix for this if you wish to rack the slide in this fashion. Use the promag follower in the Kahr magazine or modifying the Kahr follower.

[Coyote65]

After viewing this video I looked for further info regarding this issue as I'm interested in purchasing a PM9 and found that if when you rack a round you do it in a manor to pull the slide back and release it in a sling shot manor the rounds chamber fine as well as using the slide release as per the instructions. If you rack the slid back and pause and then release the slide is when the problem occurs, it all depends on how you rack the slide.

[JINXED7777]

It's not because of the 9mm round. My P40 mag does the exact same thing. Mine also nose dived and jammed if chambering a round by racking the slide and not using the slide release as described in Kahr's recommended method. I polished the feed ramp and does not do it anymore. The top round still has the gap between the next round but doesn't seem to cause any issues.

[leedew59]

You really ought to consider pulling this video and your other one on the "flaw" of the PM9. If you carry this gun as intended (with a chambered round) there is no problem or need for a video. You ought to focus your videos on why you feel it necessary to carry a firearm that is not in a ready state to use in defense. Hearing you explain that would truly be entertaining.

[everymountain502]

its due to the tolerances mine does this also but i carry one in the pipe so its not an issue

[Flashvette]

I have owned Kahr arms since 1995. The K9, PM9 and the P380. I carry with a round in the chamber. You should practice this method. As long as the trigger is covered by a holster. If not, like in a pocket without a holster. I would not carry any gun with a round in the chamber and the trigger exposed. That would be called roulette. I have always had to use the slide release to inject the first round. Kahr advises that you replace the recoil spring after 3000 rounds Small gun & a tight spring.

[RainmanE350]

The only problem here is the failure of the user to carry with one in the chamber. This could cost your life if you need it.

[JPBill2]

The gun was designed to be carried safely with a round in the chamber. It cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. In a self defense situation the time it takes you to chamber a round could cost you your life. It sounds like you need additional gun handling training.

[zaldivarbigboy]

I like you at the beginning was very worried about accidental discharges. So like you I used to carry with round only in the magazines nothing in the chamber.

Most incidents will happen when you are not expecting it. having to draw an gun and chamber it while you are being shot at or while there is someone with a gun threatening your life will most likely get you shot. Most modern designs will not discharge unless the trigger is pulled. Thrust your equipment or it wont protect you when needed.

[zaldivarbigboy]

Excellent point but I have to say that the only problem with your kahr is you. Trully it is and the reason its you, is cause you refuse to carry the way it was meant to with a round in the chamber.

When you insert a fully loaded mag on a closed slide as you rack the slide back to chamber the round the slide pushes the first round down causing the malfunction.

Once the gun is shot empty it locks on the last round inserting a fresh toped off mag and using the slide release to chamber work 100%

[robchess66]

Nice job! I have been wanting the pm9 for a long time now, and I finally bought it. A few others mentioned that you need to use the slide release, but no one described it in half as much detail as you. Thanks for that. I also do not like to carry a round chambered, so this is a serious problem for me. I wish I had found this before spending $700 on my 9094N.

On another topic, boy the internet sure does bring out the worst in some people doesn't it?

[Bromeliad1]

I just purchased a Kahr PM9. Im glad you posted this video, because I am experiencing the same problem with my new Kahr. I viewed over 10 positive video reviews on this weapon and not one of them pointed out the magazine issue. I wish I would of watched this video before buying it. I took it the range last weekend and it jammed up on me a few times. Its such a sweet little 9m. I hope the manufacturer addresses this problem asap.

[RainmanE350]

@Bromeliad1 Read your manual about how Kahr requires you to use the slide release/lock lever tochamber the first round. Its 100% reliable. This video is being done by an owner who didn't read his manual

[RightQuiteNot]

If the reliability grade of a Glock was "A+," I would give this gun a "B." Reliable enough for casual carry. The smallness makes it much more comfortable and easy to carry than a Glock. But I would not choose it over a Glock if I knew that I was going to a gun fight.

[badolan]

@RightQuiteNot

My PM9 has been completely unreliable. Constant FTF causing the mag to be nearly impossible to remove. It's on it's 3rd trip to be repaired by Kahr. At least part of the problem is mag related. However, it also ejects brass into your face, etc. On the positive side, it is easy to carry. Unfortunately, it has no functional purpose. On second thought, you could throw it at your assailant.  I'm going back to my Glocks. They always work.

[Michoacan1964]

Life and death situation... Do you want to have to think about how to use this gun properly. Because it's a great gun IF you operate it correctly.

[RightQuiteNot]

"... did this stuff on purpose." Let's think about this. Engineers are sitting around and ask the question, "should this gun be able to rack charge or not - NOT." WTF? Sorry but that doesn't make sense.

[Frogster1970]

@RightQuiteNot Great review! It looks like you are you are riding the slide ... When you charge the weapon pull it all the way back and let it fly. "sling shot" it. Although the mags loosing rounds in your pocket is worrysome.

[JoBatin]

@RightQuiteNot

It's not a phaser, it's a handgun. You don't charge it.

[leoparddragonhybrid]

I've shot thousands of rounds through moe as well. Not a single issue. First gun ever, even during breakin an yes I carry a glock also that has FTE'd 5 times. Read your manual tard. They explain the mechanics behind everything your saying and why it's so. They did that stuff on purpose!! Lol

[RightQuiteNot]

There are slight variations in different dimensions, but the most important is the length of the mag. The Kahr mags are shorter. When the last round goes in, it packs the rounds very tightly. This causes the top round to pitch forward severely. The ProMag is longer than the stock mag from Kahr so it gives the rounds more room when the last round goes in (i.e. it doesn't "pack" the rounds flat).

[NzouHntr]

Excellent investigation and obtaining conclusions as to the fundamental magazine problem, Kahr or otherwise, for the 9mm Luger. I wouldn't carry an empty chamber but that is not the issue. Very good explanation and demonstration of why single stack 9mm Luger mags can be a potential problem. But how does ProMag get around the problem?

[RightQuiteNot]

Judging from the fact that you defend Kahr through personal attacks instead of talking about the issues, I'm guessing that you must have some interest in the Kahr company.

[boostimalaka1]

I wouldn't recommend you carrying a gun or complaining about this fine weapon.I realize you must live in a trailor park by the hick accent.Please do yourself a favor and contact Kahr.I believe the service rep would explain to you that the gun is designed that way.The wiggle and wobble don't effect the gun.Gun requires a break in.

[piperboy350]

why do people buy these? i know they look good but every review i come across is saying that this thing has issues. i came close to getting one but was told to just get a glock by the dealer.. i am very happy with my glock. i trust it with my life

[frodo70444]

i shot a kahr k9 all steel and the magazine had the same wobble effect with the ammo but the gun fed fine and chamberd the first round fine i do think kahr recomends u use the slide release to chamber the first round though just my two cents

[brubin2010]

If you would use the gun correctly it would help resolve your issue. It does not matter is the round is up all the way or not. Pull the slide back and let go, don't hold on to the slide as it is returning. Also if you plan in carrying for defense you should carry with a round ready to fire. I would really recommend you take more training before you make comments about Kahr or other manufactures.

Good luck.

[flognarde]

it's a glock 17 !!

[BCUboi]

@flognarde get glasses

[DoworkLT]

I will respectfully disagree. (and I'm somewhat amazed)

[CosmicHam]

Interesting. I've never had this problem with mine and I've fired every kind of ammo imaginable through it with no misfeeds. I do carry one in the chamber though. You should too since having the gun out of battery makes it useless for defense IMHO since the perp is not going to stand there and politely wait while you rack a round.

[mayito714]

Thanks so much for this Vid. I too feel that I do not need to have a round in the chamber at all times. I carry to protect myself in a manner that is proportional to my risk levels...

[dcrogers59]

Like my Hi Point C9 The Remington ammo would work better in the single stack magazine of the Kahr. The Remington Rounds are shorter.

[dpcoronado]

With what you're saying, the Sig 225, 239 in 9mm, any 1911 single stack 9mm should have issues because they are single stack. I've owned and fired all three, never had issues with the 9mm round failing to cycle. Their mags are all straight, too.

Condition 3 is not a good idea. What if you're responding to an attack, and your support hand is unable to rack the slide after you draw the weapon? Hopefully you learned how to do that, but criminals don't want you to have even 2 seconds to act.

[Solidgun]

One more thing I didn't realize until someone pointed it out. I know you pointed out that you are a novice gun owner and this is also apparent from the fact that you carry condition 3 (which no experts in the field recommends, but it is a free country in many states) But if you know for a fact that you are a novice gun owner in the firearm community, why would you believe that nobody reads manuals?

Edit: YouTube hangup....multiple posts deleted.

[RightQuiteNot]

@Solidgun - I carry what I believe to be the safest manner for my anticipated risk level. I carry so that I have capabilities for escalating situations (someone wandering around with increasing agitation) rather than sudden assaults (as might happen to law enforcement).

Again, I can show dozens videos of people injured by accidental discharges while carrying condition 1. So far, no one has provided any example of someone being injured because two seconds were taken to rack a weapon.

[GunnyBear95]

@RightQuiteNot - Only if they were carrying condition 1 without a proper holster. Cocked and locked with the trigger guard completely covered and an AD is not going to happen.

[grigsbyke08]

@RightQuiteNot Google "Jewelry store shooting in Agra"

There's your example of someone getting injured from taking 2 seconds to rack a slide.

[grigsbyke08]

@RightQuiteNot Google "Jewelry store shooting in Agra" I warn you it is a graphic video

There's your example of someone getting injured from taking 2 seconds to rack a slide. Sure he was already getting shot but maybe he could have won that fight if he didn't have to rack the slide.

[RightQuiteNot]

@grigsbyke08 Wow! Excellent video! Thanks for sharing! I would agree that this guy would have been better off carrying hot. If I were in a profession that subjected me to robbery and crime, I would carry hot too - police, pawn shop, bank, jewelry store, convenience store, etc. Luckily, my life is a bit safer than that. Again, good video!

[Solidgun]

I can't take your comments seriously for the following reasons:

1. Obviously, you didn't check any other single stack guns. They will all wiggle because they are not staggered like the double stack design. I was fairly sure about this, but just to be sure I checked this on EMP, 1911, Ruger LCP, P238 and G36. Many double stacks will wiggle too.

2. What kind of "safe nut" uses live rounds for testing?

3. I have worked on a lot of guns as a gunsmith, I still read manuals. Nobody is above safety.

[RightQuiteNot]

@Solidgun - You have reasonable points:

1. Yes, many rounds wiggle. The reason the "wiggle" is bad on the PM9 is that it noses down and causes feed problems. To see this effect, slowly push a round out of a full mag. The round noses down significantly. This "nose down" condition frequently causes a jam on the PM9's feed ramp.

2. I used live rounds for two reasons. First, the PM9 has a bad habit of chewing up the casing on rounds when they rack through the weapon.

[RightQuiteNot]

@Solidgun - Part 2

After running my dummies through the PM9 a couple of times, my dummies were severely damaged. Second, I wanted to illustrate the problem (not test the gun).

3. I agree. Read the manual. Nevertheless, many users expect certain default functionality. If I bought a car and found that it only made right turns, I would be disappointed. I expect a car to turn both directions - event if the manual clearly states that the car only makes right turns.

[willydan45414]

wtf? Did you even shoot the weapon? Have you ever heard of a "break in" period? Go shoot 200 rds through the weapon, as the instructions tells you too. Then come back and talk us. After 200 rds the weapons doesnt have any feeding problems. Yes I have one. Yes I followed the instructions. 1000 rds + no feeding problems. Kahr should sue you. If you dont know what your talking about, you should just shut up.

[captevil1]

@willydan45414 - I totally agree. I've owned a PM9 since 2003, followed the instructions on the break-in period, and have never had a misfire, misfeed or failure to eject, even during break-in. I've fired over 2000 rounds with no problems. The only thing I've ever done to the pistol besides clean it, is replace the plastic magazine release with a metal one supplied by Kahr.

[MaineBluesman]

Interesting problem you're having. I have this same weapon in two-tone, purchased new in late 2009, and have put hundreds of rounds, scores of full magazines through the PM9 at the range with both cheapo, foreign, FMJ 9mm rounds and expensive, American-made "self defense" rounds. Not a single misfire, ejector or feeder jam. Not one. But, I have noticed that when I eject a full magazine, often that top round is just barely held in there by its butt end. Thanks for featuring this issue for us.

[mikesjunk]

i have had this to me before. sometimes still does. but if u do it quick it usually helps

[stug140]

I have owned a PM9 for a while now and this has never been a problem for me. I had to replicate what I saw in the video to make mine jam. It is very simple, when racking any gun you have you have to do it quick. If you slowly pull back the slide, it is going to jam. Same with bolt action rifles. Quick is key it! You need the force of the slide to push the round into the chamber. You have to change your speed when pulling back the slide. It is a quick fix in habit. Hope this was helpful.

[excelerater]

Some guns,usually pocket pistols need

A) longer break in period -

b) rack the slide with more man power. You rack all wrong for a pocket pistol bud

All your complaints go away with break in time and technique ......

I had all these problems,they went away with time and technique ......

[mattamiller]

Has Kahr been made aware of this video?

[RightQuiteNot]

@mattamiller Yes.

[sheba106]

HOLY CRAP!

No round in the chamber??!!

PLEASE reconsider that carry method. Just don't want to see a good guy perish over racking a slide, that's all.

[adrianrubi]

It looks like you're stopping the slide from snapping forward. In the event of an emergency you won't be racking the slide that way but just letting it snap forward and no problems will occur.

[tuts40]

My PM9 racks nicely with full mags. Just lucky I suppose!

BTW, had a CW9 and then a CW40, both junk. CW9 had feeding issues with any number of rounds in the mag. The CW40 slide stop spring/assembly kept slide back every one to three rounds, even after 200+ rounds through it. CW = Crappy Weapon. PM = Pretty Magnificent

[timeperection]

Dude get an hkp2000sk its a bit bigger but a hell of alot more reliable

[intargc]

Othe instances when you can't "load from slide lock" would be if your thumb accidentally hits the very thick slide lock causing the slide to not lock back on an empty mag. No time to lock the slide back in an intense situation... Also for clearing type 2 and 3 malfunctions. You don't lock the slide back to clear those if you're doing it quickly.

Both happened to me in a class last weekend. I lost my trust for this pistol after that class...

[mandalitten]

That's a poor design of a gun if you have to insert the magazine with the slide open for it to work properly in my opinion. Having said that, the slide should be released when it's all the way back, not hold on to it when releasing it. I also agree with RightQuiteNot that the ammo should be firmly seated in the magazine no mater how many rounds are in the magazine. If you are uncomfortable carrying one round in the tube you might want to consider getting the new PM9 with manual safety.

[mandalitten]

Someone said to read the manual. I don't have a PM9, but what exactly does the manual say about loading the magazine?

[05GTOCD]

I don't have my PM9 yet, but from what I've read while researching it is that the pistol is supposed to be loaded from slide lock. ie, open the gun up, set the slide stop, enter mag, release slide via slide stop to chamber 1st round. (vs inserting the magazine into a closed weapon and pulling back then releasing the slide to chamber the 1st round)

[05GTOCD]

Hmm - don't follow the instructions in the manual but complain that it doesn't work right???  Sounds like you simply bought the wrong gun... ESPECIALLY for a carry weapon.

[RightQuiteNot]

@05GTOCD When I go to gun shops and gun shows, I have NEVER seen anyone reading the manual. They all hold the guns and expect a certain level of functionality.

Since Kahr doesn't put a bright orange sticker on the weapon that says, "Warning: This gun will not rack charge with a full magazine," I am hopeful that this video will serve that purpose.

Did I buy the wrong gun? Many people have posted on this blog that they feel deceived.

For me, I like the gun and carry it every day.

[05GTOCD]

If you care enough about your life to carry a gun, then I urge you to care enough to get training necessary for you to feel safely carrying properly. Scenario- you're attacked from behind & placed into a chokehold- can you draw, rack & then put yourself into an offensive situation? What if you're grabbed by your weak hand? The gun may end up being taken & used against you.

Also: I respect the general level of professionalism you conduct yourself with, shoot straight, shoot safe, shoot often.

[filseyphill]

I find that carrying a spare or spare magazines for kahr pistols requires a very secure pouch. Since I invested in quality mag pouches with tension screws or elastic banding, I have all but eliminated the problem of loosing rounds out of the magazine during EDC. I work everyday in a very physical profession and have no problem with loosing rounds. I highly recommend Desantis "Tuck this!" holster for both the pistol and secure spare mag, though you won't be able to carry with the laser grip.

[filseyphill]

Hey, great video.

A lot of issues I am aware of, but that youtube reviews don't mention, and you bring them up.

I will say first that I am a enthusiastic carrier of Kahr pistols and Glock pistols.

I'm not going to say anything about your choice to carry the pistol without a round in the chamber, but I will say that from my experience, if you rack the gun with gusto, I have no problems charging the weapon. If I charge the weapon more discreetly, I will have feeding problems.

[RightQuiteNot]

@getitonjohn Blah, blah, blah. We've all heard it before. In other words, you don't have even ONE real example that carrying cold cost a life. I don't care if you carry hot, but don't criticise those of us who exercise extrordinary care to make sure innocents are not injured. 1) I believe I can draw, rack, and shoot my cold weapon as fast as you can draw your hot weapon, 2) dozens of accidents occur from carrying hot - many are posted on YouTube, 3) why do you care how I carry anyway?

[adamkajones]

@RightQuiteNot My friend and I were target shooting one day. He carries "cold" and is convinced he will be able to charge it in time. I asked him to do a drill where he was to draw his pistol and fire two shots at a target. He drew his weapon, pulled the trigger and *CLICK*. The weapon didn't fire because he carries cold. Now, this is an unstressed situation. He wasn't thinking about it when just target shooting so will he think about it when a crackhead charges him with a razorblade?

[MaineBluesman]

@adamkajones I think your point is legitimate, but I'll counter that 999 out of 1000 of us who carry concealed do not envision our potential use of the CCW as a "gotta have it loaded and firing RIGHT NOW" situation, with the need to immediately use deadly force. Unless you're in law enforcement or work in an environment that might require an instantaneous "return fire" response, the practice of keeping an empty chamber, when the gun has no actual mechanical "safety" switch , is as valid. :- )

[adamkajones]

@RightQuiteNot Just something to think about. Just because you think you can charge it in time does not mean you can do it when your life is seconds from being taken from you.

[RightQuiteNot]

@getitonjohn As a side issue, cases have occcurred and continue to occur where someone has carried a hot weapon and was injured or injured someone else. The incidents include well trained professionals including law enforcement officials. Many of these incidents even make YouTube. For our mutual benefit, please share with us ONE case where an incident happened as you describe.

[RightQuiteNot]

@getitonjohn Is that you Justin?

[RightQuiteNot]

@getitonjohn You seem to take criticism of this equipment personally.

I carry the PM9 daily. However, many people respond saying that they are disappointed with the function of the PM9. I find this reinforced by the fact that when I attend gun shows, I do not see people sitting around reading manufacturer's manuals. Unfortunately, functionality such as racking with full mags, firing characteristics, etc. are not discovered until later. Good engineering doesn't require a manual.

[RightQuiteNot]

@getitonjohn I still think you work for Kahr or have some connection to the company that you are not revealing.

[RightQuiteNot]

From your comments, I'm guessing that you work for Kahr.

My experience with Kahr reps is that they vigorously explain away the shorfalls of this weapon and absolutely refuse to concede to what serious users want from a quality firearm.

I'm confident that as the demand for powerful carry weapons grows, other manufacturere WILL continue to release small 9mm weapons without these kinds of ridiculous issues.

I carry the PM9 daily. However, that is subject to change as offerings improve.

[RightQuiteNot]

@getitonjohn With all due respect, none of us need to read the manual to know that the projectile comes out the hole in the front. In the same way, users expect a certain level of function from the guns they purchase. I would submit that the Kahr PM9 violates users' general expectation that an automatic pistol can be rack charged simply and easily. Notwithstanding, I know that "page 12" of the Kahr manual seeks to overturn this general expecation.

[rangerdanger222]

Thanks for posting this video.

[BiffBallbag]

I personally dont see the point in carrying an automatic pistol without a round in the chamber, but that's really personal preference. I own a kahr P380 and its instructions say to pull the slide back and engage the slide lock, then release it with a full magazine in order to charge the weapon. My gun had a very long break in, and it had several ftf's until I put about 700 rnds through it.

[mokyan7]

I like the DAO trigger weight and distance, it is a decent safety. Tested out another pistol with a safety, and squeezed trigger, not realizing safety was 'on' with it. I think under pressure I'd forget to turn the safety off and get more stressed or attacked/shot. Plus holster will cover the trigger too. But whatever you do, practice so it is your habit that things are one way, then you just "do" what you train. It is a nice gun, thin profile, I like the ext mag because the pinky stabilizes it.

[mokyan7]

Have tried the Promag, (PM40) it does work, but when clip empty the slide does not lock back - so can't tell you're empty. Also, if anyone has tried the plastic grip ext for the flush mag - I tried it, and then round jammed after each shot. Repeatedly. Didn't before. So took the plastic finger ext off (the add-on one for the flush mags). The trigger has a long pull, it is like a built in safety. Have not had to use it for defense. I prefer to have it chambered for instant use. So ready to go.

[mokyan7]

This is a helpful review, would have been good to see before purchasing PM40. But did the break in period as manual says. PM40 has a flush (5rd) and ext (6rd). the flush will let you load the round by pulling slide back instead of starting open. Ext mag won't. But, if start with slide open, then chamber round, then eject, top off with round, you are all set. When mag is empty, slide is back, then extra mag in, slide stop, ready to go. I agree, when trouble pops up, point and shoot trumps fumble.

[thatguy2366]

Also please before you pull out the " this is how many guns I have" or " I've been shooting for this long" stuff I don't really care. I'm simply telling you that the approach you are taking is wrong.

[RightQuiteNot]

My only "approach" is to make sure people understand the weapon. I get many comments from people who bought the weapon before they read "Page 12" of the manual and are now disappointed in the function.

I carry the PM9 daily and love it. But I have resolved the rack charging issue for myself. (See my next video on this.)

Thanks for your input in the discussion. It wouldn't be a good discussion if we all agreed on the issues.

[GottaBeekiddin]

duress. It's like a revolver DOA no safeties with a firing pin block, there's no danger what so ever from a AD. The only way it's gonna fire is if you pull the trigger. And that's not a AD it's a ND negligent discharge.

[GottaBeekiddin]

Dude! Break the pistol in! Damn man. You've been advised on a couple of message sites already. I respect your sentiment, but if you'll take the time to break the pistol in as you should the problem will go away, I promise you. I have a CW9 that did the exact same thing when I first got it. I manually racked the slide several hundred times and put a couple hundred rounds through it and low and behold, problem gone! And I agree with some of the others. Good luck with that charging the pistol under

[thatguy2366]

Guess the author hasn't gone so far as to read the manual. Page 12 says not to rack the pistol. Been carrying mine without an issue. Why are people trying to carry a self defense pistol without a round in chamber?

Steps for other pistols:

1. See threat.

2. Pull out gun hand rack.

3. Flick off the safety.

4. Hopefully not get shot/stabbed/injured in between 2 and 3.

Kahr ( with one in chamber the correct way it's meant to be carried)

1. See threat.

2. Pull out, ready to go.

[RightQuiteNot]

Hot or not, the PM9 rack charging is still important.

If you don't resolve the rack charging issue, you need to create two more lists.

First, add a list on what to do if the gun jams and you need to clear and recharge the weapon. Be sure to include the extra steps listed on Page 12 for recharging.

Next create a list should your muscle memory forget that you're not supposed to rack charge the weapon (as the manual says to not do on Page 12) and the round wedges in the gun.

[thatguy2366]

@RightQuiteNot : Not so much. The gun is meant to be used one way. With that kind of mentality a catcher's glove is perfectly fine for use at 1st base?

I've had that happen before hasn't gotten stuck in there and feeds fine. It sounds a whole lot like you are blaming the pistol than yourself. It's a simple matter of learning the pistol.

[RightQuiteNot]

One very noticable side effect of the PM9 is the way it chews on the rims of the round casings. I have some aluminum dummies that are no longer usable after a few trips through the PM9. Even brass casings get rough as they cycle through the weapon though not as dramatically as the aluminum.

[mokyan7]

Wow, good video. I tested the PM40, no problems with the 5 rd flush magazine, pull slide and it chambers round fine. 6 rd mag (with the ext.) will NOT feed the round. Jams every time, 3 diff ammo brands. It does work if have slide back, then insert mag, then release slide stop, OR, if you put 5 rounds in the 6-rd. mag. It did fire just fine and is quite accurate, just that problem, so I suppose better to put 5 rds. in the 6 rd mag. Will check out your other video for the fix you noted.

[rickbar123]

buy a glock

[TPPATRIOT]

IMHO

Shooting Kahrs for over 6 years, I have dispelled every challenge.

I'm embarrassed by the reps pesponse to you. Must be the new guy.

In this case you are racking the slide like a little girl! After a few hours of range time, the challenges mysteriously go away. Huh-

I wonder why the greatest law enforcement agencies in the US carry KAHRS?

[RightQuiteNot]

Bob Holmes is not a "new guy." He is Director of Customer Service for Kahr Arms / Auto Ordnance.

Bob is very clear that the PM9 is "not designed" to rack charge. While my video shows how I made alterations so that I can rack charge my weapon, Kahr's position on this issue bothers a lot of people.

[ohhhlethal]

@RightQuiteNot

You need to learn to be comfortable with carrying a charged and ready weapon system. There are many situations in which charging your weapon can lead to death or injury. Seconds count and you endanger yourself or those around when when you waste time trying to fiddle with a gun that can perfectly feed rounds while firing.

[RightQuiteNot]

With all due respect, I've heard this argument many times. However, when I examine the real world evidence, I find many instances where people have accidentally shot themselves or others by carrying a hot weapon. These numerous instances include carrying by many highly trained professionals including law inforcement officers.

I have NEVER heard of a real life case where someone was hurt, shot, or lost their life because of the time it took to rack their gun while drawing it.

[RightQuiteNot]

If you are concerned about the time it takes to rack charge the weapon, you should be doubly concerned about the extra time it takes to charge the Kahr PM-9 in case of a jam. Moreover, you should be three times more concerned about the extra, extra time it takes to clear the PM-9 should you accidentally try to rack charge the weapon when clearing a jam.

[THMFIC2000]

I agree. Dud ammo or malfunction with this weapon could get you killed.

Tap, Rack & Ready v.

1) Tap

2) Pull Slide Back

3) Engage slide stop

4) Release slide stop

5) Ready.

THREE STEPS VERSUS FIVE STEPS.

Not a good idea to carry this weapon to protect your life.

[THMFIC2000]

The requirement to engage the slide lock especially in a stressful situation is a dangerous design flaw because of the fact that if the weapon malfunctions, the traditional AND commonly known way to clear the firearm of tap, rack, and ready will not work.

Kahrs extra step of requiring the slide lock to be engaged especially in a high stress situation is negligent and should not be on a weapon marketed as a concealed carry / law enforcement backup.

[THMFIC2000]

Although the Kahr instruction manual requires that you engage the slide lock release to load the chamber, such a requirement is a dangerous design flaw that could endanger the life of the user.

Page 12 of the manual  Pull the slide fully to the rear and lock it back using the Slide Stop. Next push down on the Slide Stop to chamber the first round into the barrel. Don not chamber a round by pulling back on the slide and letting go of the slide..."

[lilchris423]

are you going to sale that gun?

[RightQuiteNot]

Not right now. I am waiting for the Crimson Trace Laser to be released for the Walther PPS. (Spring?) Once I buy the Walther, I'll carry it awhile and compare the two.

If you see the next video, I was able to increase the functionality of my Kahr PM9 (i.e. make it charge by racking) by replacing the Kahr mags with ProMag mags and carefully selecting ammo.

[wremines]

Like Bob said and I agree, this is a "one purpose gun". It's designed to give the most bang for the size (IF USED CORRECTLY). It was designed to be carried with one in the chamber. If you don't feel comfortable being ready to use it, don't carry it.

[RightQuiteNot]

Bob Holmes of Kahr Arms sent the email below. 

It's easy to see that either Kahr engineers haven't figured out that the mags are keeping the gun from racking or they just don't want to admit it.

[RightQuiteNot]

(Bob Holmes of Kahr Arms - email part 1)

Dear XXXXXX:

Our telephone conversation did not appear to be all that successful so let me follow up in writing what I am trying to explain to you.

1 - Our PM9 is designed as a conceal carry pistol. It is designed to be carried with one round in the chamber (like a revolver). It seems you are attempting to use the gun in a manner that it was not designed for.

[RightQuiteNot]

(Bob Holmes of Kahr Arms - email part 2)

2 - We have a very compact lightweight 9mm handgun. As a result, it requires very stiff springs to function. "Hand racking" does not consistently provide the slide enough energy to chamber the round regardless of bullet position in the mag. Most folks cannot pull the slide back far enough to provide the energy required.

[RightQuiteNot]

(Bob Holmes of Kahr Arms - email part 3)

When you build small lightweight guns in large calibers, the "large" gun rules don't always apply. This is one of the "trade offs" when you build a small lightweight gun in a large caliber. When we design guns we take in to consideration ALL potential customers who may use the product. Using pro mag products does not solve the hand racking issue. It may work for you but is not guaranteed to work for the next person.

[RightQuiteNot]

(Bob Holmes of Kahr Arms - email part 4)

Following the loading directions clearly spelled out in our manual works for ALL customers.

We believe the gun and magazines work fine as they were designed and intended.

I hope this helps clarify our position.

Best regards,

Bob Holmes

Director, Customer Service and Consumer Sales

Kahr Arms / Auto Ordnance

130 Goddard Memorial Drive

Worcester, MA 01613

[RightQuiteNot]

In response to my videos, Bob Holmes, Director of Customer Service and Consumer Sales called me. He said that the Kahr engineers were not able to find a way to build the PM9 so that it could be reliably rack-charged like other semi-auto pistols.

He also said that expecting the Kahr PM9 to rack-charge is expecting the PM9 "to do something that it was not designed to do." He recommended that those who wanted a gun capable of rack-charing should avoid the PM9 when selecting a weapon.

[RightQuiteNot]

I have made a new video showing the solution to this problem. You can see the link under Video Responses.

If you own or are thinking of owning a Kahr PM9, you need to see that video.

[drshindds]

I carry a PM9 as well.

Have noticed the same issure with top rounds not being stable in the mag. Its not acceptable.

I suppose in order for Kahr to make a small concealable weapon, some compromises were made.

I think I will try not about 5 rounds per magazine as well. Of couse I will carry an extra magazine to offset. good video

[offshorebear]

I think you have a problem with your follower, feed lips, or maybe feed ramp. Is that a factory mag?

Or you discovered a problem with single stack that no one in over a century has discovered.

[RightQuiteNot]

The mag is factory.  Your comment is well taken. Again, I am evaluating the firearm from an equipment point of view. I am certainly open to being proved wrong. My objective is to find a solution to the full mag racking problem with the PM9.

[offshorebear]

If you pull the slide all the way back and release it (don't ride it home) and the round doesn't chamber, I would consider the gun broken. Does the gun function fine if you load it up +1 and shoot the whole mag? If not I would consider the gun broken and contact Kahr or maybe try polishing the feed ramp.

Does the non extended mag have the same problem?

[allparadigmlost]

Explains why Glock won't be coming out with a single stack 9mm! (Though it does raise the question of how Walther did it with the PPS)

[ghandiesel]

I have a CW9 and noticed the same thing. It only occured when I tried, like u said, to rack the initial bullet from the closed position. It was a pain at the range to the point where I stopped bringing it. I recommend buying ProMags, that worked all the time everytime for me and are 1/2 the price of Kahr mags too.

The gun will load when the slide is released from the open position, like on the last round of a mag, so thats how you go around it.

[RightQuiteNot]

Upon your recommendation, I have ordered a ProMag 7 round magazine. If that magazine solves the problem, I will post a video showing the difference.

[BranislavKasala]

Good explanation video. I have Glock 26 and Ruger LCP. Glock 26 is perfect gun, I dont know nothing best. Ruger LCP is good but not reliable yet. I want to buy Kahr PM9 but this problem with feeding is big problem. Carry gun must be reliable always, otherwise it is not gun :-)

[RightQuiteNot]

You are correct. The manual does not recommend "slingshotting" the first round. However, I believe that this recommendation is a "workaround" to a general problem. I'm hopeful that Kahr will see fit to find a solution (i.e. use a curved magazine) on future models. I like the PM9 and carry it regularly with 5 rounds in the clip (a stable number of rounds). The gun is small, powerful, accurate, and great for concealed carry. It just has more limited firepower than advertised.

[triggerfingas]

thats good to know...though im still going to get a Kahr CW9 or cw 40 im gonna have to consider this

[jerdans]

thanks for the info, sumthing i have to consider now

[explodingbee]

Useful information. I have been considering getting a PM9 but now I will have to consider this issue first.

[madjekyll100mph]

Does the p380 have the same problem and what can be done to fix it???

[xasaBRa4]

Great viddy...I'd heard of feed problems with the PM9 but never understood exactly what it was about. Your explanation was very clear. I hope you make more videos.