the 747-800 is a nice plane but i rather be killing 2 birds with one stone with the a380 cause one flight from sydney to london with an a380 i can carry another 100 or so passengers on then a 747-800 could. so to me the a380 has more success.
LottoWinners a troll. You see him or her on every god damn comparison video hating on Airbus using weak facts. Hes so passionate about a piece of flying metal made in the USA its funny.
I love the video.Great stuff! I appreciate your support. Please watch my video Caribbean Nights. Then rate, comment,and subscribe. Please tell all your friends. Thank you in advance.
Folks this is the most advance cockpit system, the most fuel efficient, most environmentally friendly, most lightest & yet strongest composite material composed of, most quietest, best cabin air pressure/ air purification system, and most comfortable ride for passengers in any plane ever built so far; and I'm so very proud of you, Boeing Dreamliner!!! [with love from SanFrancisco]
Can Airfaggers be fair + watch "ACI - China Airlines Flight 006 " this about pilot error + B-747 that endured 5GS of gravitational pull in a flat spin from 42,000 feet + recovered at 18,000 feet, flew home + landed safely. Talk about air-frames please watch "Airbus A380 Flutter Test" + A380 came close to 1G pull, there was a loud bang in the airframe + after emergency landing the A380s main spar was twisted, almost collapsed + A380 came close to crashing + thats the best reason to fly Boeing!
@LottoWinner999 You can't compare a prototype A380 with an serial 747. Think about that the Airbus A380 will be improved in the next 20 years and the Boeing 747 HAD!!! especially structural improvements, because it WAS not strong enough. Thanks.
Well....this could have been the case if Bush did not destroy America's potential and future! With the catastrophic debt he & his cronies created - I doubt it!
fly Air-Pollutions new luxury jumbo Smogliner burning 14 tonnes of Kerosene per hour 6-8 miles up, Insinerator class, Climate Changing Cloud of Combustion (contrail-cirrus) service, taking all life on this planet Non-Stop to the End of the Earth.
Some smart people here never thought for a good reason about why the A340 is here, the video was talking about the longest aircraft when the A340 shows up, what does that mean geniuses? he just was showing you the last longest airplane which got beaten now by 747-8. Get a life instead of trying to make jokes while you are the joke and use your mind " if you have any" huh. Thanks for the video
@oyvindduus Don't you get it!? It says that it'll be longer than the longest aircraft so far which is the A340-600. Just be happy watching it and stop shouting at him.
wow... another fuckin' hockey stick with wings... Change the design and actually impress the world... Sax-40 I think it is? = good start to something new. just my opinion though...
Aerodynamic question - if you have a cannon - with a cannon ball in it - and it is pointed perfectly level to the ground - and you hold a cannon ball in your hand at the same height as the cannon ball in the cannon - and THEN as you fire the cannon - you drop the cannon ball - which hits the earth first?
PLUS - you must know - America is the second most heavily taxed country on earth (Denmark is #1)!! Ww have a 71% tax rate today - 71% of every penny spent - is spent on taxes - most are well hidden!!! The revolution has started - we have formed a new political party - The Tea Party - in reference to the Boston Tea Party (December 16, 1773) when America threw a ship load of the Kings Of England's tea into the ocean - rather than pay the high taxes on it!!! Taxes are killing us quickly!!!!!
And on top of that - our Social Security system is completely broke - in the next 10 years we will borrow $7.5 TRILLION from China to prop up a broken system!!! THe BAD = The payback will take a few lifetimes - The GOOD = China will not go to war with someone that owes them $7.5 trillion!!!!!!!!;-))) We have simply been taxed to death - and the tax man cares nothing about it - PAY ME whatever I want - or go to jail!!! It must stop - NOW!!!!!
There is no need for an airplane lareger than a 747!!!! If there was - Boeing would have made it by now!!!!!! The AirBus A380 will sell a few becasue it is new - but there are over 100 747's sitting idle all over the world!!
Your choice $350,000,000 for a new unproven AirBus A380 - or about $230,000,000 for a 747-800 with 40 years of airworthiness - and new engines for better gas mileage then a A380???? Get your checkbook - Place your order!!!!!!!
@Earthlinked every airline calculate what plane they need. Qantas, Emirates, Air France, British Airways and other ... They all have a hundred fly's on year long and short distances. For short distance they will use a 787 but to long they use A380. Boeing 747 have a big history but let give a change to Airbus...
@Earthlinked re your comment saying there's no need for an aircraft bigger than the 747. I think it's safe to say that much of your comment is factually incorrect given that 17 airlines are either flying or have 234 firm orders for the A380. Recent reports show Singapore, Emirates, Qantas and Air France are more than happy with the aircraft's performance, citing a very positive passenger response. Come October, the aircraft will have been in service for 3 years so it's hardly unproven.
@BOACMach2 THere will always be a few airlines that want to be the first in line - so let them. Boeing did a 2 years study several years ago - there was no need for anything larger rthan a 747 - and there are over 200 of them sitting in "dry dock" as we speak. So you choice - buy a 747 for about $240,000,000 with over a billion PROVEN safety miles - or try a A380 - it is new and slick - but that is about it - and it cost $350,000,000 - and add training to that!!!! Your choice!!!!!
@Earthlinked I hear what you're saying but the fact of the matter is that you have what amounts to a 20-30 year product versus a much newer product. There is no question that the A380 is technologically superior overall. In addition, Airbus's own consultations with Asian airlines in particular proved the need for a larger aircraft given the terms of the Kyoto Agreement and CO2 emissions. Emirates in particular make no secret of the fact that running A380's reduces not only port charges but also
@BOACMach2 When you are talking about airline emissions - you are talking about engines - and nothing else. New 747 GE engines are less emissions and greater mileage than the RR engines. A few airlines will buy then asa duty to Airbus - but nobody is taking it seriously - with so many 747 sitting idle - and they cost about $100,000,000 less - and get better mileage and less emissions!!!!!!! It is nothing more than a simple engine change!!!!!!!
@Earthlinked As far as I'm aware, both GE and RR are being used but I do know the 900 series will feature Trent 1000's, which apparently will be the most fuel efficient. We both know engine manufacturers can always massage the figures to show their own product to be better. As regards being taken seriously, the A380 has 234 firm orders excluding options. I'm well aware that it's not popular in the States as yet, maybe never, but Airbus are focused on European, Asian and Australian sales.
@BOACMach2 Firm orders mean NOTHING!!!! It is just an order - no money has changed hands - and Boeing gets 1000 firm order a years for 747s - kind of a wish list for the airlines. I just think that air travel already has a 747 - and that is enough for the market - and any more and you'll not be able to hold them at the gates - without redoing the gates!!!!
@Earthlinked "Firm orders mean NOTHING!!!!"..That is completely untrue if contract law is anything to go by. Converting from options to firm orders obligates the airline to purchase. By the same token, it obligates the manufacturer to deliver at a specific point in time. This is why both Airbus and Boeing have had to repay millions of $ for late delivery of the latest models. The airlines claimed breach of contract and could, by law, withdraw but as we know there's too much at stake.
@BOACMach2 Every order has an OUT - for the airline - so "firm orders" means if everythign is OK - we'll buy the airplanes - it is NOT a Purchase Order. No airpline will order 20 airplanes spend $billions - and 12 months later when they are near broke becasue of an econmic downturn - and the airplanes are ready to be delivered - be forced to buy the new airplanes!!! At one time there were 200 FIRM ORDERS for Concorde!!!! Only 5 got built!!
@Earthlinked I'd be interested in knowing where you got the figure of 200 firm orders for Concorde from. According to the official records, there were a total of 70 orders but in the end only 14 Concordes were built any eventually were "given away" to both BA and AF.
In saying firm orders obligated the airline to buy, I'm assuming production goes to schedule and that the airline in question can afford them. I appreciate in tough economic times an airline can request a deferral (cont')
@Earthlinked On the assumption Airbus can improve on the logistical aspects of assembly, I see no reason why those 234 firm orders and other options should not be converted. We all know there are no guarantees in the airline business these days but think on this. The B747-8 is a fine product, developed from years of service and millions of hours of great service. Yet no american airlines have placed orders for the Intercontinental as far as I'm aware. What do you put that down to?
@Earthlinked I guess that means you can refit all those moth-balled 747's with new engines and use them. I don't blame you for defending Boeing but accept the fact that airlines make the decisions. All aircraft become obsolete at some point
@BOACMach2 AIrcraft become obsolete for one reason and one reason only - becasue they cost more to maintain than they bring into the airline!!! PERIOD - and the total here is $200,000,000 for a 747 or $325,000,000 for an A380!!!!! Some will want a few newer planes for the advertising - most will take the 747 - to save the money!!!!
@Earthlinked I don't believe aircraft become obsolete for one reason and it's not down just to maintenance issues. Advanced build materials, avionics, design both on the airframe, wings and power plants are all factors. In the same way cars become obsolete as a result of high emissions, so too do aircraft. We all know commercial aircraft have a shelf life.
@BOACMach2 NOT really!!! My brother has a 1959 Beachcraft - and it runs like a top - so what it it;s shelf life?
The only reason to replace ANY airplane is that it's maintanence exceeds it value to the airline - it may cost $15,000 per month for maintanence - but if it only makes $12,000 per month - replace it!!! AIrlines NEVER replace airplanes due to avionics or design - NEVER!!!! They'd never get a full fleet!!! Power plants (engines) are NEVER a reason - and the 747 is proof of that!
@Earthlinked Comparing a light aircraft to a commercial one is hardly like for like is it. Clearly airlines don't buy in the same way we buy cars but a number of factors are at play when airlines review fleet purchase, not solely maintenance as you suggest. Efficiency ratings and CO2 emissions are playing an increasingly important role in air travel due to the rise in oil prices and environmental concerns. The Kyoto Agreement has set new boundaries for emissions (cont')
@Earthlinked and older aircraft are less likely to meet the criteria. Using long range twin engined aircraft are shown to save airlines lots of $. Couple that with larger passenger loads means moving us all from A to B more cheaply. I accept no airline will switch on a whim but if they are more profitable as a result, they will go for it. From an accounting angle, at least in the UK, purchasing a new fleet brings tax breaks for the airline, so there is a financial incentive too.
All airlines have a chart for EVERY airplane - the cost of gas per passenger mile. They live by this chart. When an old plane has a hight cost - they WILL A) Replace engines or B) Replace aircraft. In order to replace the aircraft they DO NOT just throw the old airplane away - they may sell parts or sell the entire airplane. Once they add new airplne cost minus old airplane price - they look at ONE AND ONLY ONE number - THE COST OF GAS TO MOVE A PASSNGER 1 MILE in the new airplane!
@BOACMach2 Avionics and engines can be replaced on every airplane - I think the 747 is proof of that - there is not a single 747 built in the last 30 years - that uses the original Pratt-Whitney gas guzzling engines!!!! And do you really think that new avionics plays ANY part??? in 1986 Delta crashed in Dallas dues to wind sheer - and within MONTHS they had a radar that detected wind sheer - but NOBODY bought new planes for this radar - it was simply added to existing avionics!!!!
@Earthlinked dealing with increasing demand for travel. Their solution, buy bigger planes to handle the busiest routes, hence orders for A380-900. Emirates has done the same thing at Manchester, UK on their daily scheduled flight to Dubai. But I do agree that the airlines are looking to maximise profits where possible. I read that the A380 is profitable once 65% of its seats are filled. I also understand your point regarding replacing older engines with newer and saving on buying a new model.
@BOACMach2 I would think that the number was MUCH higher - airlines profit margins are low to start with and gas prices keep them low. Probasbly around 85% full is their profit margin - simply becasue the A380 is VERY expensive $325 million!!!! Plus all seats are NOT the same price. I flew Atlanta-Moscow for $1450 - bought tickt 90 days befor flight. I sat beside a man that bough his ticket THAT day - it cost $3600!! So selling seats is NOT indicitave of profit - seats are NOT the same price!!
@Earthlinked The 65% seems optimistic I know but I'm pretty sure the data is right. Will check. BA's fleet of 747-400's numbers 30 or so but not disagreeing with your statement re Delta's size. I'd be interested in knowing where the 200 orders for Concorde came from though.
@BOACMach2 Delta does not usually use 747s - there is no money in it becasue you rarely fly a full plane. My father in law was one of Delta's first 747 pilots ($126,000 in retirement pay - his route was Houston to Germany - ALWAYS a full plane!!)
EVERYBODY though Concorde was a great idea - until they got the maintanence fees - it was a horrible money looser - even at $11,000 per NY-London ticket(Britain/France lost about $12billion over the years - that is why a flat tire grounded it!!
@BOACMach2 ANd NOBODY will spend $100 million for a new wing design!!!!!!! The airlines do not care - they look at one thing and one thing only - how much gas do I spend - per mile - to move one customer? PERIOD!! If you decrease that - you'll probably get a sale - if you decrease it a LOT - then you have a great engine - they will NOT buy your airplanes - but they will buy your engines - they are not going to throw the baby out - with the bath water!!!!!
@Earthlinked Another key issue is the question of how do you move an increasing number of people with a fixed number of slots. A practical example of this is LHR which suffers from heavy stacking (and hence increased CO2 emissions over a given area) Heathrow wanted a 3rd runway to ease the problem but environmentalists took action, arguing that local communities would be be further ruined and "poisoned". Heathrow lost its case so all airlines are now faced with minimising emissions whilst (cont'
@BOACMach2 Tax breaks mean very little!!!! Take 10% over 10 years - almost nothing when financing a $100,000,000 airplane. ($1,000,000 over 10 years) However - the cost of gas to fly that airplane can mean a saving of $5,000 PER FLIGHT and they will fly 6 days a week = $30,000 per week or $1,560,000 per year - just in gas cost!! The ONLY number they see is the COST OF GAS TO MOVE 1 PASSENGER 1 MILE!!! PERIOD. LOW = profit - HIGH = loss!!!!
@Earthlinked It seems capital allowances (tax breaks) work differently here then. It works on a tapering system here where in Year 1, you can offset up to 25% of the capital value of the asset (ie 25% of $325m). So tax breaks are a big deal here when it comes to assessing taxable profits....I digress. If the issue is bottom line profit as you suggest, then the case has to be for fuel efficiency right and the more people you can transport at the lowest cost, given capital allowances.
@BOACMach2 The tax breaks are different here - taxes are NEVER lost - only deferred!!!!!! Over a few years - tax breaks only finance the taxes!! The only thing that really matters is fuel costs - no airline can survive high gas costs - simply because they ALWAYS use a lot!!! A short 30 minute fligh will use 2000 gallons on a new airplane - jet fuel is EXPENSIVE - so all airlines contract with gas companies (they USUALLY buy 100,000 gallons at a time - jet fuel NOT gas) to stop spiking prices!
@BOACMach2 Each barrel of oil (42 gallons) produces 19 gallons of gas and 3 gallons of jet fuel - which is much more expensive. Also many other things - like 1 gallon of Vaseline!!! If gas costs $2.00/gallon - then jet fuel is USUALLY $3.50/gallon - and they live on the same scale!!!!! For every 5 cents oil costs go up - that is about 50 cents more cost per gallon for jet fuel!! So $1 price hike will ground airplanes from not full routes!! Then add the cost of the plane/pilots!!!!
@BOACMach2 NOT REALLY!!! Maybe to youther do - but not to the airlines!!! If your choice is to keep a 707 that burns 2 gallons of gas to transport 1 person 1 mile - OR spend $350,000,000 for a new A380 - then they WILL keep the 707 - maybe prelace the engines!!! NOBODY buys new airplanes becasue of avionice, design or wings and power plants(easily replaced)!!!! NEVER!! Why spend $320 million when you can spend $200 million and upgrade your old ENTIRE fleet?????
@Earthlinked and the manufacturer would be pretty foolish not to accept the request. Nontheless, the manufacturer clearly depends on income from sales and all things being equal both sides win.
@Earthlinked Finally, peoples' expectations have changed haven't they. Businessmen want all the latest technology as well as creature comforts. VLA's give them the space to indulge these people with private suites etc. Having these facilities, as Emirates and SA have found out are what gets new and repeat business. Once the A380 commenced its service from Manchester, sales of its business class went up by 16%. I guess Emirates decision to order 90 A380's is indicative of their intentions
@BOACMach2 Well - first - we all know that Emirates is loosing money very fast - and very much. They can afford it - they must make a name for themselves and they are privatly owned by wealthy oil country - it helps when an oil rich government owns the airline - they can loose money for YEARS (and they will!!) . No possible way to purchase 90 A380's - not even CLOSE to possible - that is simple bragging on the future!!!! Delta is world largest airline - and they have only 16 747's!
@BOACMach2 If Emirates buys 90 A380's - I will buy them the last 10 as a gift!!!!! There is NO CHANCE they will buy 90 of these airplanes - when the largest airline on earth - Delta - has only 16 747's!! Do they plan to actually be almost 10 times larger than Delta?? It is impossible - unless everybody on earth flies ONLY Emirates!! NOT GONNA HAPPEN!! They'll be lucky to buy 5 A380's!!! They simply do not have the business - or the routes - or the pilots!!!! PERIOD - just bragging!!!!!
@Earthlinked I thought I'd keep my comment reasonably brief. I really do believe Emirates have the cash (they have just reported a $1.1billion net profit) to finance the 90 A380's. By the way, they currently have 12 in their fleet. They have a clear cut strategy it seems to me to be come the world's largest carrier. True, the market for the aircraft is a "niche" market but it seems very profitable. I'm pretty impressed with their achievements so far. Regards
@BOACMach2 That is my point - there is NO POSSIBLE WAY they made $1billion in profits while EVERY airline is holding on for dear life in a worldwide recession!! (They are also flying half full planes!!) The worste financial crunch in HISTORY - and they make a profit while many other airlines fail? It must be easy to get CASH from their government - their owners. Last year the top 50 airlines on the earth break even or loose money - and Emirates make billions? SORRY - THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
@Earthlinked I know there are many airlines on the point of bankruptcy but the figures of $1.1billion are reported. According to both Reuters and Bloomberg Businessweek (dated May12th), the Emirates Group posted said profits after a significant increase in business/turnover. Check it out if you don't believe me. By the way their average number of seats filled is also reported as 78.1%.
As I said last time around, their business model/strategy appears to be to use Dubai as a primary hub.
@BOACMach2 EASY to do - when the government owns the airline!!! I seriously doubt that the number are true - with gas prices as high as they are - unless Emirates gets free gas from their government or has a sweetheart deal with the government - but they are NOT making billions and paying for very expensive gas!!!!!! Also buying A380's AND posting a profit - simply NOT going to happen - they are $325 million each!!!!
@Earthlinked I've no doubt they are benefiting from cheaper oil prices but check the articles mentioned. If you want to disagree with the press so be it. You said there was no way an airline could make such a profit in today's environment and I'm inclined that in general that's the case but these are independent reports with figures that can be verified. Government supported or not, Emirates poses a very real threat and is already getting adverse attention from a number of national carriers.
@BOACMach2 As I said - I will buy their last 10 A380's for them - if they buy 90!!! There is simply not that much airline travel on earth - and they would have to take it all!
To undersand why 90 A380's will NEVER happen - Delta is the largest airline on earth - they have 16 747. So 90 A380 would make Emuirates about 8 times larger than the largest airline on earth. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! They do not have the routes for that - nothing even close!!! They'll get MAYBE 10 A380's!!
@Earthlinked You may need a huge stash of cash in that case (to buy the 10 A380's). Reports on the growth in air travel suggest a 20-30% increase in passenger numbers over the next 15-20 years, more specifically from India and China. Given the population sizes alone, airlines could reap a bonanza in years to come. So I disagree with your assertion that there aren't enough people to fill the planes. Think on it.
@BOACMach2 Airlines buy airplane for NOW - not for 10 - 15 years down the road. Most airplanes have a 20 year lifespan - so buyin now for 15 years in teh future - would probably get you fired!!!!!!!
And airtravel has gone DOWN in tha past 10 years - most airlines will tell you that!! It may go up but very unlikely - with internet meetings - why go there - just have an internet meeting- I do it 4 time a month!!!!
@Earthlinked Actually, airlines purchase with projected demand a key factor. Like the stock market, if you buy today because stocks are on the up, you're already too late! Major airlines are buying today with the future in mind e.g. Emirates, Etihad, Ryanair, Easyjet to name but a few. Air travel has not gone down in the last 10years. Passenger figures are on the increase in Europe and most definitely in Asia. Do not assume your work habits are translated world wide. That's just silly!
@BOACMach2 I work in the internet video industry - sale triple every year. That is the trend that I'm using - more companies come to us over and over to set up meetings rather than waisting time/expenses with travel. And silly is when you take 50 airlines and 49 are losing money/breaking even - and one is buying $325 million inventory and making $1 bilion in profits!!!! Not doubtful at all - IMPOSSIBLE! You said 78% full - industry standard is 86% full = profitability!!
@Earthlinked What you say makes complete sense re video conferencing, especially in today's economic climate. But it's equally true that fast growing and increasingly prosperous economies such as those in China and India are demanding better access to air travel, both internally and internationally. The economic climate we are suffering is not mirrored in those countries for example.
Let me be clear here, I'm not arguing against your reasoning, most of which makes sense to me. (cont')
@BOACMach2 I agree - but do not think that China will stand by and allow others to make airline profits - while their airlines sit idle!!! They have 124 airplanes on order from Boeing!! India - who cares - they do not have the infrastructure or the educational system - to be a big player - they have proven that - MANY time in America!!! Computer companies CONSTANTLY use India - and ALWAYS - they are the worste computers on the market - very poorly built!! China - NEVER a problem!!!
@Earthlinked Regarding your comment to do with China, the point I'm trying to make is that demand for air travel is growing over there so it is logical to assume chinese airlines will buy/lease new aircraft to meet the demand. China Southern will be receiving their 1st A380 in the next few months. They have others on order so I'm assuming China Airways for one will want to ensure they do not lose out. I haven't checked but what are the chinese ordering from Boeing? Regards
@BOACMach2 They have ordered 22 747-800's - with a reserve for 10 more within the next 5 years. They have been flying 747's for a few years. ANd tehy do not want to piss off anyone - so they have to get a few of the lesser A380's.
@Earthlinked re the ordering of 22 747-800's. Correct me if my information is out of date but I see no orders from China for the Boeing whatsoever. The only airlines who have ordered the 747-8I are Lufthansa and Korean Air (totalling 25) China Southern have, of course, ordered the more advanced A380.
@BOACMach2 I don't see how you can call A380 "more advanced" - the A380 has NOTHING that is not on a 747!!! Engines and electronics have been replaced - and the 747's today are only the same shape as the 747's made 40 years ago - there is almost NOTHING in the electronics/engines/cabin that is the same!!! THe 747 is as technically advanced as the A380 - except the 747 still has a old school steering wheel and throttles - the A380 has a keyboard and screen!!!!!
@Earthlinked you don't see how the A380 is more advanced? Apart from the things you mentioned which give it greater manoeuvrability in the air there is the all new lighter airframe, incorporating all the technological gizmos going. It will fly higher, the atmospheric pressure in the cabin is boosted to alleviate passenger fatigue. There are more options cabin wise. It'll move more people for less money which is important when there are a limited number of landing slots at places at Heathrow.
@BOACMach2 The A380 does not have a single "technology gizmo" that is not already on the 747 - not one!!! Flying highter is no more fatiguing than a normal pattern - which are established and controlled by the FAA - NOT the pilot!! You think they chose their own flight patterns? Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world - and you can land anytime you want - they land - takeoff - over 2500 flights a day!!!! The only thing the A380 has is new and inexperiance!! It's JUST NEW - THAT'S ALL!
@Earthlinked 1.Ok, the % use of composites (which as you know are reputedly stronger and lighter) is higher making the aircraft itself both more robust and efficient per tonne. You only have to look at the B787 to see the effect this can have on these aspects. This in turn allows higher flight ceilings, which in turn leads to less less fuel used as the aircraft faces less air resistance.
The cabin pressure is "boosted" at altitude reducing passenger fatigue on long haul (also DVT am informed)
@BOACMach2 Well - not really. You do not get better gas mileage the higher you fly - mainly because you also have less oxygen - which you kinda need to burn the fuel!!! And with modern aircraft today - air resistance is not worth mentioning - most aircraft have less that 2% resistance. And you'll have to explain how flying hight makes you less fatigued on a long haul. I'll need that my next 17 hour trip to Russia!!!!! Cabin pressure is constant - it NEVER changes!!! BOOST WHAT???
@Earthlinked Good morning. Are you in Atlanta by any chance? Re fatigue. What Airbus say is that unlike most aircraft, the A380 operates with higher cabin pressure than other aircraft. The higher pressure translates into proportionately less fatigue over long journeys. I have to say it didn't feel that much different to me but then I only flew to Dubai and back infrequently, unlike businessmen, who report feeling "fresher". Check it out for yourself on the net.
@BOACMach2 YES - I do live in Atlanta!! LOVE it here - home of the largest airport in the world - and all the problems that go with it!!! The outgoing mayor of Atlanta got thrown in jail for selling dirt - for another runway - $330 million worth of dirt. Then new mayor cancelled the dirt order -and got another company to do it for $28 million!!!!! Must be some really great dirt!!!!!
@Earthlinked Re life in Atlanta. I visited Florida a year ago on vacation and met with 2 couples from Atlanta. Lovely, friendly folk. I live close to Manchester Airport in England though have moved around this country over the years. Nasty Mayor huh? Seems a problem worldwide..people on the take! Sheeesh...$330m huh.
@Earthlinked The A380 is significantly quieter than current models according to passengers. That's not to say the new Boeing will not match nor surpass it. Time will tell right? Touchdown speeds are lower with the A380 (ca 135n compared to B747-8 165n) which also assists with fuel economy. Seating widths are wider in economy in the A380 giving passengers slightly more "wiggle room" (CBS News)
@BOACMach2 Impossible - the A380 uses the same engines in the same position as the 747 - how can they be quieter - it is the same thing??? You want quiet - sit in the front of the plane- the engine noise is behind the plane - or all we know in math and science is WRONG!!! More wiggle room - maybe so don't fly economy - fly business class - upper deck - a 747. It is like a vacation - this is how I went to Hong Kong (18 hour flight!!!) and the stewardess were so HOT on Cathey Pacific!!!
@Earthlinked There is absolutely no doubt it's much quieter. It's commented upon by people all over the craft, even those over the wing. I cant "prove" this to you clearly, but businessmen and tourists alike comment on the fact. Improvements in sound proofing I guess. Yes, I have fond memories of Cathay too. Was my 1st truly long haul, Manchester to Hong Kong. Nowadays it's Singapore and Emirates. Very tasty. Did you see the Cebu FA video on YouTube?
@BOACMach2 How is that possible - if you are in front of the engines - you hear NOTHING during the flight - if you are behind them - you hear a hum!!! And they (747 and A380) basically have the same wing design - same engines!! The planes are made with the same composits!!! So one cannot be quieter than the other - if it were - they'd figure out why - and make the adjustments or the louder airplane!!! It is like FORD and GM - when one has a great idea - the other does also - in 2 months!!
@Earthlinked About the noise. I hear what you are saying and you're absolutely right from my experiences, but the A380 is quieter inside. The only thing I can think, apart from quieter engines and better soundproofing is the fact that because it's such a big aircraft, you are further away from the engines physically, particularly on the upper deck. The plan is to introduce RR Trent 1000's on the 900 series if they go with that in 2013.
@BOACMach2 I think the noise would pretty much be identicel - the wing designs would put the SAME engines - the SAME DISTANCE from the cabin - within, say, 10 feet - so not a noticable difference!!!!! ANd the metal skin is the same - the interior material - the same - and the stuffing in between - the same. If one found a much better engine, skin, interior material or stuffing - trust me on this one - the other would have it in weeks!!! They do have their ways of figuring these things out!!!
@Earthlinked I'm not disagreeing with your logic. But having travelled on the A380 myself, I assure you it's quieter than other similar aircraft such as 747/A340. If you check on reports it says exactly that. I've seen it on a news report somewhere but can't recall the name of it at this point. But passengers on the upper deck are surely further away from the engines than conventional single deck craft?
@Earthlinked You have a point there, but I just want to add : the wing design of the 747 and A380 are different. That what makes one can be quieter and the other louder. The aerodynamics for example. The raked wingtips that used in the 747-8 too.
@BOACMach2 And touchdown speeds mean NOTHING - you touch down at full throttle - in case you have to go around!!! OR has the A380 eliminated the need to go around?!? The only difference is that it is NEW - nothing else - it is not better - it is only NEW!! And as John Glen said many years ago - while sitting on top of the Mercury Rocket when asked of he was afraid: Sure! How would you feel - sitting on top of a rocket that was built by the company that said they could make it the cheapest?
@Earthlinked Ha ha!..Love the John Glen quote. Re touchdown. What I'm trying to say is that a beast weighing in at over 100 tonnes more than the B747-400 can land/stop in similar distance at slower speeds. Of course landing is nothing "new" as such but it seems Airbus/Boeing are looking to get an advantage over the opponent where possible ie each saves fuel etc. etc.
@BOACMach2 The moment that Boeing comes up with method of saving fuel - AirBuss will copy it and vice versa - with the airframe of the 747 and A380 - neither has any advantage over the other - it is all in the engines!!!! ANd when one gets a new engine - the other soon follows!!! The only advantage is 747 has 40 years of flight experiance!!!
@Earthlinked Developing new aircraft (for example advantages in fuel efficiency) doesn't because a new engine is developed, the engine developed because the aircraft producer ask the engine maker to make a new type of engine that match the new airplane. The aircraft producer also have a lot to do, design the wing, the fuselage, the interior, the aerodynamics, the materials, etc. The materials too! Like 787 and A350! They use a lot of composites materials to make the plane stronger and lighter.
@Boeingloverzz I agree - engines are NEVER made by aircraft companies - I think GE, Royals Royce and a few others are the top engine compaines in the world - they DO NOT make engines. And you can put a GE engine on an A320 - or a RR engine - and it workd well - several versions of the 747 have Royals Royce engines - MOST now have GE engines!!! Aerodynamics - NEVER change - once the design is complete - it is NEVER changed - or it MUST go through FAA testing again - sometimes taking YEARS!
@Boeingloverzz The entire design of the airplane is ALWAYS made from a design of the airframe and wings. Then it NEVER changes - unless it is a newer model - you cannot tell a 747 made in 1980 from one made last week - except for the engines, upgraded instruments and upgraded interior - OUTSIDE - they look exactly alike because the airframe RARELY changes!! The one change that has taken place on almost EVERY aircraft the last few years are winglets on the end of the wing - more stability!!
@Earthlinked (cont') but certain airlines are exploiting the weaknesses of others e.g BA/Iberia and AirFrance/KLM. Even mergers between those airlines may not save them. Worse still, BA have 57 ageing 747-400's, the market value of which is dropping.
Points to note: buying an aircraft @ $325m does not come off your profit/loss account. It is placed as an asset on the company's Balance Sheet. Secondly, the A380 becomes "profitable" once it achieves 65% occupancy. Hence profitable.
@Earthlinked One final point, I would very much doubt Emirates paid market price for their A380's. Any airline ordering the equivalent of 40% of the order book will secure huge discounts. I'm sure you'll agree on that one. Best wishes
@BOACMach2 I radically DISAGREE - and order is NEVER paid for until it is delevered because price is ALWAYS upon devilery!! Emirates entire fleet = 130 planes - they have 170 on order! Delta has 728 planes - 18 on order - becasue Delta plans on buying them - Emirates - NOT POSSIBLE - just bragging!! They ordered 70 A380!! If they buy 60 - I will buy the last 10 for them!!! Also easy to profit - when shieks are GIVING you airplanes - they got 12 727's this way - they were a gift for a brother!!
@Earthlinked (1) Did I read you right. Are you suggesting airlines DON'T get big discounts for multiple orders or are you saying whatever airlines pay for the aircraft is only paid on delivery? Please clarify. If you're suggesting the latter that is not true. When airlines place firm orders, they are required to place a % deposit. If that were not the case, no manufacturer would have working capital for the costs of the assembly. it's true vast majority is paid on delivery but not all of the $
@BOACMach2 Of course they get multiple discounts - but NOBDOY pays full price to start with!!! When an order is placed - they pay NOTHING!!! Once the order goes "firm" they USUALLY put 7% down and they start building them. Once they are complete - they must pay 93% (or discounted - becasue they DO discount once the initial "working" payment is made and they start making the airplanes!!! But when delivered - it must be 100% paid for!!!! VERY RARE they will allow delivery on an unpaid airplane!
@Earthlinked So we are in agreement on that one then. Once the order goes "firm" a deposit is paid as I said previously. And of course financing is in place to pay the balance prior to delivery. Good.
@BOACMach2 Correct - Boeing and AirBus DO NOT finance airplanes!! Both did at one time - but with everybody financing everything - it is hard to make payroll. I'd bet today - they will finance a percentage of the sale - but both sales are usually over $1 billion - and both have payroll and taxes to pay! So ususally the airline has the money or the financing BEFORE they place the order. You DO NOT want to order 4 777 and not have the money! In America - (maybe Eruope) that if FRAUD!
@Earthlinked Easy now..lol! Financing is financing. As you alluded to, very few airlines have (nor want for that matter) to pay for their 777's A330's etc. out of their own accounts. Banking's a "win-win" business even in bad times.
@BOACMach2 And financing is very easy to do - for airlines like Emirates - just wait and the shiek's brother will give you 5 727's!!!! It has happened TWICE!!! Maybe next time he can upgrade to a few 747 or an few nice A380!!!!! DO NOT THINK - they have not put that bug in his ear!!!!!!
@Earthlinked re financing. I'm referring principally to the world's airlines outside of the middle east. I think we are all aware middle eastern states are wealthy as a result of oil. Like I said previously, we have to accept that there will be significant "discounts" in whatever shape or form they come. That's business. Regards
@Earthlinked (2) In addition, the price is agreed when the contract to purchase is signed. One of the reasons some airlines signed up for the A380 as far back as 2001 was because prices were fixed at 2001 costs i.e. they have not paid the $325m per aircraft which appears to be the 2010 baseline price. Did I misread what you said?
@BOACMach2 Not sure- but when you place an order - you DO NOT PAY for the aircraft - you actually pay the money - when the aircraft is delivered. An ORDER actually does NOT order airplanes - it is like a wish list. Emirates only has a total of 130 widebody aircraft - TOTAL - so why would they order 170 - plus - they are government owned by an oil country - and a shiek from the royal family GAVE them several 727's!!! Kinda easy to make a profit - when you don't have to pay for airplanes!!!!
@BOACMach2 You assume that newer is better - NOT TRUE!!!! A refitted 747 with new GE Engines - is less emmissions and better mileage per person than ANY A380!!!! And $100,000,000 less than an A380!!!!!!! But they will sell a few - it is a new toy on the block - nothing to take seriously!!! My guess - they will sell less than 100 airplanes - and the 747 is well into 2000 airplanes sold!!!!!!!!!
@BOACMach2 You are right!!! Boeing said "To be fair, total 747 orders since 2005 have been 150 against 241 A380's" - but again orders are NOT sales!!!! Also from thier web site: Orders for the 747-400 as of August 2002 stood at 632 (of which 17 ER/ERF), of which 585 had been delivered. Total 747 sales stood at 1356. And you figure about $200 million per plane - and now - we're talking BIG money!!!!!!!
@Earthlinked Big money for sure. It makes me wonder at times how an airline can place orders of 10-20 aircraft whether it's Boeing or Airbus, given the economic climate but then there's lots of money to be made I guess.
@BOACMach2 And unproven is in millions of miles flown - not the number of days or years - it could be sitting still for 2 years - does that give it 2 years of flight time??? NOOOOO!!!! It is the number of miles flown - not time!!!!!! ANd the A380 has almost none!!!!!!! It is still a baby in the egg and teh 747 is going on 50 years as king of the sky!!!!!!
@Earthlinked number of aircraft used to shift a given number of people. Furthermore, the Chinese authorities want to use the A380 in a single class arrangement, thereby keeping aircraft movements to a minimum. The same rings true of India I am led to believe.
@Earthlinked "And unproven is in millions of miles flown - not the number of days or years"..let's not be silly here. The A380s that are in service are in constant use, save maintenance. I have no exact figures for miles flown ove the past 3 years though I'm sure it's easily found.
@Earthlinked Projected A380 sales by 2015 are projected to be 350-370 as the likes of BA and Virgin take delivery of the 900 series. The A380 will transport a passenger more cheaply than the B747-8, even more so when SE Asian airlines select single class configuration (e.g. China Southern) It is true of course that the Airbus is the more expensive to buy but then you get 30%+ more cabin space.
Clearly, Boeing has not invested nearly as much in the re-modelled 400 series.
@Earthlinked It seems Boeing believes its best chance of sales of the Intercontinental would be to airlines operating large 400 series fleets. BA/Lufthansa may buy a few but most airlines will opt for A380 as the economics side make it the right choice. A380's are profitable once they are 65% full.
As much as the 747 is an icon, its days as a passenger carrier appear to be numbered. With only 25 ordered from 2 airlines (apart from VIP versions for Boeing) the out;ook is not so good.
@BOACMach2 REALLY??? Lets see Airbus sell a 40 year old airplane - that can still compete with the newer modles in the air!!!!!!!!!!!! The 747 is the Queen of the skies - and will be for another 40 years!!!!!!!
@Earthlinked Seems to me the only saving grace will be sales of the freighter as there is no competition on that front. I have flown both Boeing and Airbus over the years. Both are great products but people need to fly in the A380 to appreciate just how good it is.
@RoyalPersia I am not an American too, I am from Indonesia, Boeing is really really good! A lot better than the other. A lot airline in my country buy and order Boeing airplane.
actualy Cathay Pacific is the first customer they should recieve it in a few days or they already have it, but it's the freighter version, lufthansa is gets the first intercontinental version
@Kimflash Haha you are an idiot. First, Airbus was first that made fly by wire, now boeing uses it too (without pilot error prevent systems ofc) in their new planes, 777 and 787.
Second, MD-11 is not cancelled, i think you meant MD-12, and it had nothing to do with A380.
A340 first flight was 1991, B777 1994, so you cant say that Airbus copy boeing.
Competition is not same as copying, but it seems that you little boeing fans cant hold little competition from airbus, and call it to copying.
@Pvjinflight I am a Boeing fan, but in this case I think I agree with you. A380 has nothing to do with MD-12 & 777 is made several years after A340. Also about fly by wire. Boeing & Airbus is in a competition, there's nothing's wrong with copying models, system, and technology.
@Kimflash And are you saying that just because Mcdonnell Douglas forgot MD-12 project, its wrong that Airbus made A380, which actually have nothing to do with MD-12 design. MD-12 project was dead before boeing bought MD.
HAVE FLOWN OVER THE PACIFIC OVER 100 TIMES . BOEING IS BY FAR A BETTER AIRCRAFT THAT AIRBUS . HAVE FLOWN THEM BOTH LOTS OF TIMES . BOEING FEELS LIKE A CADILLAC , AIRBUS LIKE A TRUCK
@RoyalPersia when people ask me wich is better boeing or airbus, i allways ask them the difference between a bugatti veryon and a volkswagen transporter driving on square wheels!
All you guys, thumbs up if you don't just think, but know and experience that boeing is far, far better then airbus!!!!
@RoyalPersia but it kinda sucks how Boeing isnt really that into the public than Airbus. I love Boeing but's said how Airbus had documentaries on the the Science Channel while Boeing keeps quiet
747 lives on
GoPensGo377 6 days ago
It was kind of confusing when u showed the 747-400 and A340 but awsome vid!
737Spongebob 1 week ago
the 747-800 is a nice plane but i rather be killing 2 birds with one stone with the a380 cause one flight from sydney to london with an a380 i can carry another 100 or so passengers on then a 747-800 could. so to me the a380 has more success.
maltesephoenician 1 month ago
LottoWinners a troll. You see him or her on every god damn comparison video hating on Airbus using weak facts. Hes so passionate about a piece of flying metal made in the USA its funny.
RainfulPhenix 1 month ago 3
The new Boeing Generation,are the most beautiful aircraft in the World!
MrPhantommystery 2 months ago
I love the video.Great stuff! I appreciate your support. Please watch my video Caribbean Nights. Then rate, comment,and subscribe. Please tell all your friends. Thank you in advance.
TheRalph0711 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
R.E.V.O.L.U.T.I.O.N is all in 787!
Folks this is the most advance cockpit system, the most fuel efficient, most environmentally friendly, most lightest & yet strongest composite material composed of, most quietest, best cabin air pressure/ air purification system, and most comfortable ride for passengers in any plane ever built so far; and I'm so very proud of you, Boeing Dreamliner!!! [with love from SanFrancisco]
MisterSunson 2 months ago
by 1:47 is a Aibus not Boing sorry
Ma22Ma21 3 months ago
@Ma22Ma21 a340
MegaBrendan16 1 month ago
Can Airfaggers be fair + watch "ACI - China Airlines Flight 006 " this about pilot error + B-747 that endured 5GS of gravitational pull in a flat spin from 42,000 feet + recovered at 18,000 feet, flew home + landed safely. Talk about air-frames please watch "Airbus A380 Flutter Test" + A380 came close to 1G pull, there was a loud bang in the airframe + after emergency landing the A380s main spar was twisted, almost collapsed + A380 came close to crashing + thats the best reason to fly Boeing!
LottoWinner999 7 months ago
@LottoWinner999 You can't compare a prototype A380 with an serial 747. Think about that the Airbus A380 will be improved in the next 20 years and the Boeing 747 HAD!!! especially structural improvements, because it WAS not strong enough. Thanks.
kingsharkoon 4 months ago
Kick ase video
eray6543 8 months ago
Well....this could have been the case if Bush did not destroy America's potential and future! With the catastrophic debt he & his cronies created - I doubt it!
gorylatko 8 months ago
Boeing makes good planes
Electrodudeify 8 months ago
the most radical thing about this new gen of Boeing is the wing design, makes the craft very distinctive from airbus
Mr2pint 8 months ago
fly Air-Pollutions new luxury jumbo Smogliner burning 14 tonnes of Kerosene per hour 6-8 miles up, Insinerator class, Climate Changing Cloud of Combustion (contrail-cirrus) service, taking all life on this planet Non-Stop to the End of the Earth.
DickieCo2 8 months ago
Awful music! Turned my speakers off at about the :04 mark. You sir, have shitty taste.
MLewisUT 9 months ago
@Truthexpedition Dude don't take it personal, I'm not that bad guy :-) I just had to reply to one of you and you were the lucky one :-)
Have a good one :-)
How many one's did I mention :-)
bas055 9 months ago
@Truthexpedition
Some smart people here never thought for a good reason about why the A340 is here, the video was talking about the longest aircraft when the A340 shows up, what does that mean geniuses? he just was showing you the last longest airplane which got beaten now by 747-8. Get a life instead of trying to make jokes while you are the joke and use your mind " if you have any" huh. Thanks for the video
bas055 9 months ago 5
Gawd that music is shit. made by a poorly programmed puter no doubt. I would hope no living being would consider it as music.
HugoBossUnzipped 10 months ago
couldn't they apply parachutes to the plane so when there's problem it dont' have crash and instead save all the people's lives.?
zzzthaoster 10 months ago
the 747-8 was tested out in my city
crazym26 11 months ago
Good point!..The reason the A340 is in this video is?......
BOACMach2 1 year ago
Comment removed
oyvindduus 1 year ago 13
@oyvindduus he was try to show the longest aircraft in the world (A340-600)
MutatedWhale6 7 months ago
@oyvindduus Don't you get it!? It says that it'll be longer than the longest aircraft so far which is the A340-600. Just be happy watching it and stop shouting at him.
flymerlion 3 months ago
Comment removed
oyvindduus 3 months ago
@oyvindduus It might be because they are trying to show the 748 will be the longest and not the A340 now...maybe lol
JamesB767 3 months ago
I love planes and the music.
written by shongeet
khondkerzahid 1 year ago
I love planes and the music
written by shongeet
khondkerzahid 1 year ago
Great !!!!!!!!!
BZebra2009 1 year ago
Maybe it^s only in my head but dosn^t 4 engins feel saver then 2. I mean if one should get pronlem. Just saying.
daniellandgrens 1 year ago
@daniellandgrens yes but 767-300ER's and A330's have already been flying transoceanic flights for years.
zeroturbulence 1 year ago
ALAH WHU ACKHBARH!!
SuicidelRetard 1 year ago
@SuicidelRetard Fuck you and your hindu shit. It's your fault what happened 11 september 2001. So fuck you retard!
SingaporeAirflyer 1 year ago
@SingaporeAirflyer Take a chill pill
inside1976 1 year ago
@inside1976 I can't take a chill pill after 11 September 2001. It makes my so fucking sad!
SingaporeAirflyer 1 year ago
wow... another fuckin' hockey stick with wings... Change the design and actually impress the world... Sax-40 I think it is? = good start to something new. just my opinion though...
Canadafuckyeah 1 year ago
@Canadafuckyeah you want something with a new design? look up the boeing 797 theres your new design pretty impressive huh?
fallout3freak360 1 year ago
I know everyone is talking about planes, and stuff (i'm studying to become a pilot), but what is the name of this song?
Mdaftz 1 year ago
@Mdaftz
Some kind of remix of 'Time to Say Goodbye (Con te partirò)' by Andrea Bocelli.
NealPratt 1 year ago
Aerodynamic question - if you have a cannon - with a cannon ball in it - and it is pointed perfectly level to the ground - and you hold a cannon ball in your hand at the same height as the cannon ball in the cannon - and THEN as you fire the cannon - you drop the cannon ball - which hits the earth first?
Earthlinked 1 year ago
Popo
rndria 1 year ago
PLUS - you must know - America is the second most heavily taxed country on earth (Denmark is #1)!! Ww have a 71% tax rate today - 71% of every penny spent - is spent on taxes - most are well hidden!!! The revolution has started - we have formed a new political party - The Tea Party - in reference to the Boston Tea Party (December 16, 1773) when America threw a ship load of the Kings Of England's tea into the ocean - rather than pay the high taxes on it!!! Taxes are killing us quickly!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
And on top of that - our Social Security system is completely broke - in the next 10 years we will borrow $7.5 TRILLION from China to prop up a broken system!!! THe BAD = The payback will take a few lifetimes - The GOOD = China will not go to war with someone that owes them $7.5 trillion!!!!!!!!;-))) We have simply been taxed to death - and the tax man cares nothing about it - PAY ME whatever I want - or go to jail!!! It must stop - NOW!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
What is the song i like it
CyclonePresentations 1 year ago
pure propaganda
Kjellverschuren 1 year ago
booo airbus
zacknatalie09 1 year ago
song?
TheChillFlight 1 year ago
@GSatiFan the part 0:55 to 1:03 where i can download this video?
TheChillFlight 1 year ago
There is no need for an airplane lareger than a 747!!!! If there was - Boeing would have made it by now!!!!!! The AirBus A380 will sell a few becasue it is new - but there are over 100 747's sitting idle all over the world!!
Your choice $350,000,000 for a new unproven AirBus A380 - or about $230,000,000 for a 747-800 with 40 years of airworthiness - and new engines for better gas mileage then a A380???? Get your checkbook - Place your order!!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked every airline calculate what plane they need. Qantas, Emirates, Air France, British Airways and other ... They all have a hundred fly's on year long and short distances. For short distance they will use a 787 but to long they use A380. Boeing 747 have a big history but let give a change to Airbus...
d33lm0n 1 year ago
@d33lm0n WHY give Airbus a chance? Boeing has the proven airplanes - and for less money - (LOWER TICKET PRICES) they can get a 747!!!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked re your comment saying there's no need for an aircraft bigger than the 747. I think it's safe to say that much of your comment is factually incorrect given that 17 airlines are either flying or have 234 firm orders for the A380. Recent reports show Singapore, Emirates, Qantas and Air France are more than happy with the aircraft's performance, citing a very positive passenger response. Come October, the aircraft will have been in service for 3 years so it's hardly unproven.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 THere will always be a few airlines that want to be the first in line - so let them. Boeing did a 2 years study several years ago - there was no need for anything larger rthan a 747 - and there are over 200 of them sitting in "dry dock" as we speak. So you choice - buy a 747 for about $240,000,000 with over a billion PROVEN safety miles - or try a A380 - it is new and slick - but that is about it - and it cost $350,000,000 - and add training to that!!!! Your choice!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I hear what you're saying but the fact of the matter is that you have what amounts to a 20-30 year product versus a much newer product. There is no question that the A380 is technologically superior overall. In addition, Airbus's own consultations with Asian airlines in particular proved the need for a larger aircraft given the terms of the Kyoto Agreement and CO2 emissions. Emirates in particular make no secret of the fact that running A380's reduces not only port charges but also
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 When you are talking about airline emissions - you are talking about engines - and nothing else. New 747 GE engines are less emissions and greater mileage than the RR engines. A few airlines will buy then asa duty to Airbus - but nobody is taking it seriously - with so many 747 sitting idle - and they cost about $100,000,000 less - and get better mileage and less emissions!!!!!!! It is nothing more than a simple engine change!!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked As far as I'm aware, both GE and RR are being used but I do know the 900 series will feature Trent 1000's, which apparently will be the most fuel efficient. We both know engine manufacturers can always massage the figures to show their own product to be better. As regards being taken seriously, the A380 has 234 firm orders excluding options. I'm well aware that it's not popular in the States as yet, maybe never, but Airbus are focused on European, Asian and Australian sales.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Firm orders mean NOTHING!!!! It is just an order - no money has changed hands - and Boeing gets 1000 firm order a years for 747s - kind of a wish list for the airlines. I just think that air travel already has a 747 - and that is enough for the market - and any more and you'll not be able to hold them at the gates - without redoing the gates!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked "Firm orders mean NOTHING!!!!"..That is completely untrue if contract law is anything to go by. Converting from options to firm orders obligates the airline to purchase. By the same token, it obligates the manufacturer to deliver at a specific point in time. This is why both Airbus and Boeing have had to repay millions of $ for late delivery of the latest models. The airlines claimed breach of contract and could, by law, withdraw but as we know there's too much at stake.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Every order has an OUT - for the airline - so "firm orders" means if everythign is OK - we'll buy the airplanes - it is NOT a Purchase Order. No airpline will order 20 airplanes spend $billions - and 12 months later when they are near broke becasue of an econmic downturn - and the airplanes are ready to be delivered - be forced to buy the new airplanes!!! At one time there were 200 FIRM ORDERS for Concorde!!!! Only 5 got built!!
And late delivery - very different story!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I'd be interested in knowing where you got the figure of 200 firm orders for Concorde from. According to the official records, there were a total of 70 orders but in the end only 14 Concordes were built any eventually were "given away" to both BA and AF.
In saying firm orders obligated the airline to buy, I'm assuming production goes to schedule and that the airline in question can afford them. I appreciate in tough economic times an airline can request a deferral (cont')
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked On the assumption Airbus can improve on the logistical aspects of assembly, I see no reason why those 234 firm orders and other options should not be converted. We all know there are no guarantees in the airline business these days but think on this. The B747-8 is a fine product, developed from years of service and millions of hours of great service. Yet no american airlines have placed orders for the Intercontinental as far as I'm aware. What do you put that down to?
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I guess that means you can refit all those moth-balled 747's with new engines and use them. I don't blame you for defending Boeing but accept the fact that airlines make the decisions. All aircraft become obsolete at some point
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 AIrcraft become obsolete for one reason and one reason only - becasue they cost more to maintain than they bring into the airline!!! PERIOD - and the total here is $200,000,000 for a 747 or $325,000,000 for an A380!!!!! Some will want a few newer planes for the advertising - most will take the 747 - to save the money!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I don't believe aircraft become obsolete for one reason and it's not down just to maintenance issues. Advanced build materials, avionics, design both on the airframe, wings and power plants are all factors. In the same way cars become obsolete as a result of high emissions, so too do aircraft. We all know commercial aircraft have a shelf life.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 NOT really!!! My brother has a 1959 Beachcraft - and it runs like a top - so what it it;s shelf life?
The only reason to replace ANY airplane is that it's maintanence exceeds it value to the airline - it may cost $15,000 per month for maintanence - but if it only makes $12,000 per month - replace it!!! AIrlines NEVER replace airplanes due to avionics or design - NEVER!!!! They'd never get a full fleet!!! Power plants (engines) are NEVER a reason - and the 747 is proof of that!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Comparing a light aircraft to a commercial one is hardly like for like is it. Clearly airlines don't buy in the same way we buy cars but a number of factors are at play when airlines review fleet purchase, not solely maintenance as you suggest. Efficiency ratings and CO2 emissions are playing an increasingly important role in air travel due to the rise in oil prices and environmental concerns. The Kyoto Agreement has set new boundaries for emissions (cont')
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked and older aircraft are less likely to meet the criteria. Using long range twin engined aircraft are shown to save airlines lots of $. Couple that with larger passenger loads means moving us all from A to B more cheaply. I accept no airline will switch on a whim but if they are more profitable as a result, they will go for it. From an accounting angle, at least in the UK, purchasing a new fleet brings tax breaks for the airline, so there is a financial incentive too.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
All airlines have a chart for EVERY airplane - the cost of gas per passenger mile. They live by this chart. When an old plane has a hight cost - they WILL A) Replace engines or B) Replace aircraft. In order to replace the aircraft they DO NOT just throw the old airplane away - they may sell parts or sell the entire airplane. Once they add new airplne cost minus old airplane price - they look at ONE AND ONLY ONE number - THE COST OF GAS TO MOVE A PASSNGER 1 MILE in the new airplane!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Avionics and engines can be replaced on every airplane - I think the 747 is proof of that - there is not a single 747 built in the last 30 years - that uses the original Pratt-Whitney gas guzzling engines!!!! And do you really think that new avionics plays ANY part??? in 1986 Delta crashed in Dallas dues to wind sheer - and within MONTHS they had a radar that detected wind sheer - but NOBODY bought new planes for this radar - it was simply added to existing avionics!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked dealing with increasing demand for travel. Their solution, buy bigger planes to handle the busiest routes, hence orders for A380-900. Emirates has done the same thing at Manchester, UK on their daily scheduled flight to Dubai. But I do agree that the airlines are looking to maximise profits where possible. I read that the A380 is profitable once 65% of its seats are filled. I also understand your point regarding replacing older engines with newer and saving on buying a new model.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 I would think that the number was MUCH higher - airlines profit margins are low to start with and gas prices keep them low. Probasbly around 85% full is their profit margin - simply becasue the A380 is VERY expensive $325 million!!!! Plus all seats are NOT the same price. I flew Atlanta-Moscow for $1450 - bought tickt 90 days befor flight. I sat beside a man that bough his ticket THAT day - it cost $3600!! So selling seats is NOT indicitave of profit - seats are NOT the same price!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked The 65% seems optimistic I know but I'm pretty sure the data is right. Will check. BA's fleet of 747-400's numbers 30 or so but not disagreeing with your statement re Delta's size. I'd be interested in knowing where the 200 orders for Concorde came from though.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Delta does not usually use 747s - there is no money in it becasue you rarely fly a full plane. My father in law was one of Delta's first 747 pilots ($126,000 in retirement pay - his route was Houston to Germany - ALWAYS a full plane!!)
EVERYBODY though Concorde was a great idea - until they got the maintanence fees - it was a horrible money looser - even at $11,000 per NY-London ticket(Britain/France lost about $12billion over the years - that is why a flat tire grounded it!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 ANd NOBODY will spend $100 million for a new wing design!!!!!!! The airlines do not care - they look at one thing and one thing only - how much gas do I spend - per mile - to move one customer? PERIOD!! If you decrease that - you'll probably get a sale - if you decrease it a LOT - then you have a great engine - they will NOT buy your airplanes - but they will buy your engines - they are not going to throw the baby out - with the bath water!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Another key issue is the question of how do you move an increasing number of people with a fixed number of slots. A practical example of this is LHR which suffers from heavy stacking (and hence increased CO2 emissions over a given area) Heathrow wanted a 3rd runway to ease the problem but environmentalists took action, arguing that local communities would be be further ruined and "poisoned". Heathrow lost its case so all airlines are now faced with minimising emissions whilst (cont'
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Tax breaks mean very little!!!! Take 10% over 10 years - almost nothing when financing a $100,000,000 airplane. ($1,000,000 over 10 years) However - the cost of gas to fly that airplane can mean a saving of $5,000 PER FLIGHT and they will fly 6 days a week = $30,000 per week or $1,560,000 per year - just in gas cost!! The ONLY number they see is the COST OF GAS TO MOVE 1 PASSENGER 1 MILE!!! PERIOD. LOW = profit - HIGH = loss!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked It seems capital allowances (tax breaks) work differently here then. It works on a tapering system here where in Year 1, you can offset up to 25% of the capital value of the asset (ie 25% of $325m). So tax breaks are a big deal here when it comes to assessing taxable profits....I digress. If the issue is bottom line profit as you suggest, then the case has to be for fuel efficiency right and the more people you can transport at the lowest cost, given capital allowances.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 The tax breaks are different here - taxes are NEVER lost - only deferred!!!!!! Over a few years - tax breaks only finance the taxes!! The only thing that really matters is fuel costs - no airline can survive high gas costs - simply because they ALWAYS use a lot!!! A short 30 minute fligh will use 2000 gallons on a new airplane - jet fuel is EXPENSIVE - so all airlines contract with gas companies (they USUALLY buy 100,000 gallons at a time - jet fuel NOT gas) to stop spiking prices!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Each barrel of oil (42 gallons) produces 19 gallons of gas and 3 gallons of jet fuel - which is much more expensive. Also many other things - like 1 gallon of Vaseline!!! If gas costs $2.00/gallon - then jet fuel is USUALLY $3.50/gallon - and they live on the same scale!!!!! For every 5 cents oil costs go up - that is about 50 cents more cost per gallon for jet fuel!! So $1 price hike will ground airplanes from not full routes!! Then add the cost of the plane/pilots!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 NOT REALLY!!! Maybe to youther do - but not to the airlines!!! If your choice is to keep a 707 that burns 2 gallons of gas to transport 1 person 1 mile - OR spend $350,000,000 for a new A380 - then they WILL keep the 707 - maybe prelace the engines!!! NOBODY buys new airplanes becasue of avionice, design or wings and power plants(easily replaced)!!!! NEVER!! Why spend $320 million when you can spend $200 million and upgrade your old ENTIRE fleet?????
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked and the manufacturer would be pretty foolish not to accept the request. Nontheless, the manufacturer clearly depends on income from sales and all things being equal both sides win.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Finally, peoples' expectations have changed haven't they. Businessmen want all the latest technology as well as creature comforts. VLA's give them the space to indulge these people with private suites etc. Having these facilities, as Emirates and SA have found out are what gets new and repeat business. Once the A380 commenced its service from Manchester, sales of its business class went up by 16%. I guess Emirates decision to order 90 A380's is indicative of their intentions
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Well - first - we all know that Emirates is loosing money very fast - and very much. They can afford it - they must make a name for themselves and they are privatly owned by wealthy oil country - it helps when an oil rich government owns the airline - they can loose money for YEARS (and they will!!) . No possible way to purchase 90 A380's - not even CLOSE to possible - that is simple bragging on the future!!!! Delta is world largest airline - and they have only 16 747's!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 If Emirates buys 90 A380's - I will buy them the last 10 as a gift!!!!! There is NO CHANCE they will buy 90 of these airplanes - when the largest airline on earth - Delta - has only 16 747's!! Do they plan to actually be almost 10 times larger than Delta?? It is impossible - unless everybody on earth flies ONLY Emirates!! NOT GONNA HAPPEN!! They'll be lucky to buy 5 A380's!!! They simply do not have the business - or the routes - or the pilots!!!! PERIOD - just bragging!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I thought I'd keep my comment reasonably brief. I really do believe Emirates have the cash (they have just reported a $1.1billion net profit) to finance the 90 A380's. By the way, they currently have 12 in their fleet. They have a clear cut strategy it seems to me to be come the world's largest carrier. True, the market for the aircraft is a "niche" market but it seems very profitable. I'm pretty impressed with their achievements so far. Regards
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 That is my point - there is NO POSSIBLE WAY they made $1billion in profits while EVERY airline is holding on for dear life in a worldwide recession!! (They are also flying half full planes!!) The worste financial crunch in HISTORY - and they make a profit while many other airlines fail? It must be easy to get CASH from their government - their owners. Last year the top 50 airlines on the earth break even or loose money - and Emirates make billions? SORRY - THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I know there are many airlines on the point of bankruptcy but the figures of $1.1billion are reported. According to both Reuters and Bloomberg Businessweek (dated May12th), the Emirates Group posted said profits after a significant increase in business/turnover. Check it out if you don't believe me. By the way their average number of seats filled is also reported as 78.1%.
As I said last time around, their business model/strategy appears to be to use Dubai as a primary hub.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 EASY to do - when the government owns the airline!!! I seriously doubt that the number are true - with gas prices as high as they are - unless Emirates gets free gas from their government or has a sweetheart deal with the government - but they are NOT making billions and paying for very expensive gas!!!!!! Also buying A380's AND posting a profit - simply NOT going to happen - they are $325 million each!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I've no doubt they are benefiting from cheaper oil prices but check the articles mentioned. If you want to disagree with the press so be it. You said there was no way an airline could make such a profit in today's environment and I'm inclined that in general that's the case but these are independent reports with figures that can be verified. Government supported or not, Emirates poses a very real threat and is already getting adverse attention from a number of national carriers.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 As I said - I will buy their last 10 A380's for them - if they buy 90!!! There is simply not that much airline travel on earth - and they would have to take it all!
To undersand why 90 A380's will NEVER happen - Delta is the largest airline on earth - they have 16 747. So 90 A380 would make Emuirates about 8 times larger than the largest airline on earth. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! They do not have the routes for that - nothing even close!!! They'll get MAYBE 10 A380's!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked You may need a huge stash of cash in that case (to buy the 10 A380's). Reports on the growth in air travel suggest a 20-30% increase in passenger numbers over the next 15-20 years, more specifically from India and China. Given the population sizes alone, airlines could reap a bonanza in years to come. So I disagree with your assertion that there aren't enough people to fill the planes. Think on it.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Airlines buy airplane for NOW - not for 10 - 15 years down the road. Most airplanes have a 20 year lifespan - so buyin now for 15 years in teh future - would probably get you fired!!!!!!!
And airtravel has gone DOWN in tha past 10 years - most airlines will tell you that!! It may go up but very unlikely - with internet meetings - why go there - just have an internet meeting- I do it 4 time a month!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Actually, airlines purchase with projected demand a key factor. Like the stock market, if you buy today because stocks are on the up, you're already too late! Major airlines are buying today with the future in mind e.g. Emirates, Etihad, Ryanair, Easyjet to name but a few. Air travel has not gone down in the last 10years. Passenger figures are on the increase in Europe and most definitely in Asia. Do not assume your work habits are translated world wide. That's just silly!
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 I work in the internet video industry - sale triple every year. That is the trend that I'm using - more companies come to us over and over to set up meetings rather than waisting time/expenses with travel. And silly is when you take 50 airlines and 49 are losing money/breaking even - and one is buying $325 million inventory and making $1 bilion in profits!!!! Not doubtful at all - IMPOSSIBLE! You said 78% full - industry standard is 86% full = profitability!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked What you say makes complete sense re video conferencing, especially in today's economic climate. But it's equally true that fast growing and increasingly prosperous economies such as those in China and India are demanding better access to air travel, both internally and internationally. The economic climate we are suffering is not mirrored in those countries for example.
Let me be clear here, I'm not arguing against your reasoning, most of which makes sense to me. (cont')
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 I agree - but do not think that China will stand by and allow others to make airline profits - while their airlines sit idle!!! They have 124 airplanes on order from Boeing!! India - who cares - they do not have the infrastructure or the educational system - to be a big player - they have proven that - MANY time in America!!! Computer companies CONSTANTLY use India - and ALWAYS - they are the worste computers on the market - very poorly built!! China - NEVER a problem!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Regarding your comment to do with China, the point I'm trying to make is that demand for air travel is growing over there so it is logical to assume chinese airlines will buy/lease new aircraft to meet the demand. China Southern will be receiving their 1st A380 in the next few months. They have others on order so I'm assuming China Airways for one will want to ensure they do not lose out. I haven't checked but what are the chinese ordering from Boeing? Regards
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 They have ordered 22 747-800's - with a reserve for 10 more within the next 5 years. They have been flying 747's for a few years. ANd tehy do not want to piss off anyone - so they have to get a few of the lesser A380's.
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked re the ordering of 22 747-800's. Correct me if my information is out of date but I see no orders from China for the Boeing whatsoever. The only airlines who have ordered the 747-8I are Lufthansa and Korean Air (totalling 25) China Southern have, of course, ordered the more advanced A380.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 I don't see how you can call A380 "more advanced" - the A380 has NOTHING that is not on a 747!!! Engines and electronics have been replaced - and the 747's today are only the same shape as the 747's made 40 years ago - there is almost NOTHING in the electronics/engines/cabin that is the same!!! THe 747 is as technically advanced as the A380 - except the 747 still has a old school steering wheel and throttles - the A380 has a keyboard and screen!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked you don't see how the A380 is more advanced? Apart from the things you mentioned which give it greater manoeuvrability in the air there is the all new lighter airframe, incorporating all the technological gizmos going. It will fly higher, the atmospheric pressure in the cabin is boosted to alleviate passenger fatigue. There are more options cabin wise. It'll move more people for less money which is important when there are a limited number of landing slots at places at Heathrow.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 The A380 does not have a single "technology gizmo" that is not already on the 747 - not one!!! Flying highter is no more fatiguing than a normal pattern - which are established and controlled by the FAA - NOT the pilot!! You think they chose their own flight patterns? Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world - and you can land anytime you want - they land - takeoff - over 2500 flights a day!!!! The only thing the A380 has is new and inexperiance!! It's JUST NEW - THAT'S ALL!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked 1.Ok, the % use of composites (which as you know are reputedly stronger and lighter) is higher making the aircraft itself both more robust and efficient per tonne. You only have to look at the B787 to see the effect this can have on these aspects. This in turn allows higher flight ceilings, which in turn leads to less less fuel used as the aircraft faces less air resistance.
The cabin pressure is "boosted" at altitude reducing passenger fatigue on long haul (also DVT am informed)
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Well - not really. You do not get better gas mileage the higher you fly - mainly because you also have less oxygen - which you kinda need to burn the fuel!!! And with modern aircraft today - air resistance is not worth mentioning - most aircraft have less that 2% resistance. And you'll have to explain how flying hight makes you less fatigued on a long haul. I'll need that my next 17 hour trip to Russia!!!!! Cabin pressure is constant - it NEVER changes!!! BOOST WHAT???
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Good morning. Are you in Atlanta by any chance? Re fatigue. What Airbus say is that unlike most aircraft, the A380 operates with higher cabin pressure than other aircraft. The higher pressure translates into proportionately less fatigue over long journeys. I have to say it didn't feel that much different to me but then I only flew to Dubai and back infrequently, unlike businessmen, who report feeling "fresher". Check it out for yourself on the net.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 YES - I do live in Atlanta!! LOVE it here - home of the largest airport in the world - and all the problems that go with it!!! The outgoing mayor of Atlanta got thrown in jail for selling dirt - for another runway - $330 million worth of dirt. Then new mayor cancelled the dirt order -and got another company to do it for $28 million!!!!! Must be some really great dirt!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Re life in Atlanta. I visited Florida a year ago on vacation and met with 2 couples from Atlanta. Lovely, friendly folk. I live close to Manchester Airport in England though have moved around this country over the years. Nasty Mayor huh? Seems a problem worldwide..people on the take! Sheeesh...$330m huh.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked The A380 is significantly quieter than current models according to passengers. That's not to say the new Boeing will not match nor surpass it. Time will tell right? Touchdown speeds are lower with the A380 (ca 135n compared to B747-8 165n) which also assists with fuel economy. Seating widths are wider in economy in the A380 giving passengers slightly more "wiggle room" (CBS News)
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Impossible - the A380 uses the same engines in the same position as the 747 - how can they be quieter - it is the same thing??? You want quiet - sit in the front of the plane- the engine noise is behind the plane - or all we know in math and science is WRONG!!! More wiggle room - maybe so don't fly economy - fly business class - upper deck - a 747. It is like a vacation - this is how I went to Hong Kong (18 hour flight!!!) and the stewardess were so HOT on Cathey Pacific!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked There is absolutely no doubt it's much quieter. It's commented upon by people all over the craft, even those over the wing. I cant "prove" this to you clearly, but businessmen and tourists alike comment on the fact. Improvements in sound proofing I guess. Yes, I have fond memories of Cathay too. Was my 1st truly long haul, Manchester to Hong Kong. Nowadays it's Singapore and Emirates. Very tasty. Did you see the Cebu FA video on YouTube?
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 How is that possible - if you are in front of the engines - you hear NOTHING during the flight - if you are behind them - you hear a hum!!! And they (747 and A380) basically have the same wing design - same engines!! The planes are made with the same composits!!! So one cannot be quieter than the other - if it were - they'd figure out why - and make the adjustments or the louder airplane!!! It is like FORD and GM - when one has a great idea - the other does also - in 2 months!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked About the noise. I hear what you are saying and you're absolutely right from my experiences, but the A380 is quieter inside. The only thing I can think, apart from quieter engines and better soundproofing is the fact that because it's such a big aircraft, you are further away from the engines physically, particularly on the upper deck. The plan is to introduce RR Trent 1000's on the 900 series if they go with that in 2013.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 I think the noise would pretty much be identicel - the wing designs would put the SAME engines - the SAME DISTANCE from the cabin - within, say, 10 feet - so not a noticable difference!!!!! ANd the metal skin is the same - the interior material - the same - and the stuffing in between - the same. If one found a much better engine, skin, interior material or stuffing - trust me on this one - the other would have it in weeks!!! They do have their ways of figuring these things out!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked I'm not disagreeing with your logic. But having travelled on the A380 myself, I assure you it's quieter than other similar aircraft such as 747/A340. If you check on reports it says exactly that. I've seen it on a news report somewhere but can't recall the name of it at this point. But passengers on the upper deck are surely further away from the engines than conventional single deck craft?
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked You have a point there, but I just want to add : the wing design of the 747 and A380 are different. That what makes one can be quieter and the other louder. The aerodynamics for example. The raked wingtips that used in the 747-8 too.
Boeingloverzz 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 And touchdown speeds mean NOTHING - you touch down at full throttle - in case you have to go around!!! OR has the A380 eliminated the need to go around?!? The only difference is that it is NEW - nothing else - it is not better - it is only NEW!! And as John Glen said many years ago - while sitting on top of the Mercury Rocket when asked of he was afraid: Sure! How would you feel - sitting on top of a rocket that was built by the company that said they could make it the cheapest?
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Ha ha!..Love the John Glen quote. Re touchdown. What I'm trying to say is that a beast weighing in at over 100 tonnes more than the B747-400 can land/stop in similar distance at slower speeds. Of course landing is nothing "new" as such but it seems Airbus/Boeing are looking to get an advantage over the opponent where possible ie each saves fuel etc. etc.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 The moment that Boeing comes up with method of saving fuel - AirBuss will copy it and vice versa - with the airframe of the 747 and A380 - neither has any advantage over the other - it is all in the engines!!!! ANd when one gets a new engine - the other soon follows!!! The only advantage is 747 has 40 years of flight experiance!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Developing new aircraft (for example advantages in fuel efficiency) doesn't because a new engine is developed, the engine developed because the aircraft producer ask the engine maker to make a new type of engine that match the new airplane. The aircraft producer also have a lot to do, design the wing, the fuselage, the interior, the aerodynamics, the materials, etc. The materials too! Like 787 and A350! They use a lot of composites materials to make the plane stronger and lighter.
Boeingloverzz 1 year ago
@Boeingloverzz I agree - engines are NEVER made by aircraft companies - I think GE, Royals Royce and a few others are the top engine compaines in the world - they DO NOT make engines. And you can put a GE engine on an A320 - or a RR engine - and it workd well - several versions of the 747 have Royals Royce engines - MOST now have GE engines!!! Aerodynamics - NEVER change - once the design is complete - it is NEVER changed - or it MUST go through FAA testing again - sometimes taking YEARS!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Boeingloverzz The entire design of the airplane is ALWAYS made from a design of the airframe and wings. Then it NEVER changes - unless it is a newer model - you cannot tell a 747 made in 1980 from one made last week - except for the engines, upgraded instruments and upgraded interior - OUTSIDE - they look exactly alike because the airframe RARELY changes!! The one change that has taken place on almost EVERY aircraft the last few years are winglets on the end of the wing - more stability!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked lighter = more fuel efficiency, longer range. stronger = more capacity.
Boeingloverzz 1 year ago
@Earthlinked (cont') but certain airlines are exploiting the weaknesses of others e.g BA/Iberia and AirFrance/KLM. Even mergers between those airlines may not save them. Worse still, BA have 57 ageing 747-400's, the market value of which is dropping.
Points to note: buying an aircraft @ $325m does not come off your profit/loss account. It is placed as an asset on the company's Balance Sheet. Secondly, the A380 becomes "profitable" once it achieves 65% occupancy. Hence profitable.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked One final point, I would very much doubt Emirates paid market price for their A380's. Any airline ordering the equivalent of 40% of the order book will secure huge discounts. I'm sure you'll agree on that one. Best wishes
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 I radically DISAGREE - and order is NEVER paid for until it is delevered because price is ALWAYS upon devilery!! Emirates entire fleet = 130 planes - they have 170 on order! Delta has 728 planes - 18 on order - becasue Delta plans on buying them - Emirates - NOT POSSIBLE - just bragging!! They ordered 70 A380!! If they buy 60 - I will buy the last 10 for them!!! Also easy to profit - when shieks are GIVING you airplanes - they got 12 727's this way - they were a gift for a brother!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked (1) Did I read you right. Are you suggesting airlines DON'T get big discounts for multiple orders or are you saying whatever airlines pay for the aircraft is only paid on delivery? Please clarify. If you're suggesting the latter that is not true. When airlines place firm orders, they are required to place a % deposit. If that were not the case, no manufacturer would have working capital for the costs of the assembly. it's true vast majority is paid on delivery but not all of the $
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Of course they get multiple discounts - but NOBDOY pays full price to start with!!! When an order is placed - they pay NOTHING!!! Once the order goes "firm" they USUALLY put 7% down and they start building them. Once they are complete - they must pay 93% (or discounted - becasue they DO discount once the initial "working" payment is made and they start making the airplanes!!! But when delivered - it must be 100% paid for!!!! VERY RARE they will allow delivery on an unpaid airplane!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked So we are in agreement on that one then. Once the order goes "firm" a deposit is paid as I said previously. And of course financing is in place to pay the balance prior to delivery. Good.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Correct - Boeing and AirBus DO NOT finance airplanes!! Both did at one time - but with everybody financing everything - it is hard to make payroll. I'd bet today - they will finance a percentage of the sale - but both sales are usually over $1 billion - and both have payroll and taxes to pay! So ususally the airline has the money or the financing BEFORE they place the order. You DO NOT want to order 4 777 and not have the money! In America - (maybe Eruope) that if FRAUD!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Easy now..lol! Financing is financing. As you alluded to, very few airlines have (nor want for that matter) to pay for their 777's A330's etc. out of their own accounts. Banking's a "win-win" business even in bad times.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 And financing is very easy to do - for airlines like Emirates - just wait and the shiek's brother will give you 5 727's!!!! It has happened TWICE!!! Maybe next time he can upgrade to a few 747 or an few nice A380!!!!! DO NOT THINK - they have not put that bug in his ear!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked re financing. I'm referring principally to the world's airlines outside of the middle east. I think we are all aware middle eastern states are wealthy as a result of oil. Like I said previously, we have to accept that there will be significant "discounts" in whatever shape or form they come. That's business. Regards
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked (2) In addition, the price is agreed when the contract to purchase is signed. One of the reasons some airlines signed up for the A380 as far back as 2001 was because prices were fixed at 2001 costs i.e. they have not paid the $325m per aircraft which appears to be the 2010 baseline price. Did I misread what you said?
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 Not sure- but when you place an order - you DO NOT PAY for the aircraft - you actually pay the money - when the aircraft is delivered. An ORDER actually does NOT order airplanes - it is like a wish list. Emirates only has a total of 130 widebody aircraft - TOTAL - so why would they order 170 - plus - they are government owned by an oil country - and a shiek from the royal family GAVE them several 727's!!! Kinda easy to make a profit - when you don't have to pay for airplanes!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 You assume that newer is better - NOT TRUE!!!! A refitted 747 with new GE Engines - is less emmissions and better mileage per person than ANY A380!!!! And $100,000,000 less than an A380!!!!!!! But they will sell a few - it is a new toy on the block - nothing to take seriously!!! My guess - they will sell less than 100 airplanes - and the 747 is well into 2000 airplanes sold!!!!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked FYI the figure of 2000+ 747's built is more than slightly out. It's closer to 1400 and I very much doubt any VLA will ever match that.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 You are right!!! Boeing said "To be fair, total 747 orders since 2005 have been 150 against 241 A380's" - but again orders are NOT sales!!!! Also from thier web site: Orders for the 747-400 as of August 2002 stood at 632 (of which 17 ER/ERF), of which 585 had been delivered. Total 747 sales stood at 1356. And you figure about $200 million per plane - and now - we're talking BIG money!!!!!!!
.
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Big money for sure. It makes me wonder at times how an airline can place orders of 10-20 aircraft whether it's Boeing or Airbus, given the economic climate but then there's lots of money to be made I guess.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 And unproven is in millions of miles flown - not the number of days or years - it could be sitting still for 2 years - does that give it 2 years of flight time??? NOOOOO!!!! It is the number of miles flown - not time!!!!!! ANd the A380 has almost none!!!!!!! It is still a baby in the egg and teh 747 is going on 50 years as king of the sky!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked number of aircraft used to shift a given number of people. Furthermore, the Chinese authorities want to use the A380 in a single class arrangement, thereby keeping aircraft movements to a minimum. The same rings true of India I am led to believe.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Earthlinked "And unproven is in millions of miles flown - not the number of days or years"..let's not be silly here. The A380s that are in service are in constant use, save maintenance. I have no exact figures for miles flown ove the past 3 years though I'm sure it's easily found.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Projected A380 sales by 2015 are projected to be 350-370 as the likes of BA and Virgin take delivery of the 900 series. The A380 will transport a passenger more cheaply than the B747-8, even more so when SE Asian airlines select single class configuration (e.g. China Southern) It is true of course that the Airbus is the more expensive to buy but then you get 30%+ more cabin space.
Clearly, Boeing has not invested nearly as much in the re-modelled 400 series.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@Earthlinked It seems Boeing believes its best chance of sales of the Intercontinental would be to airlines operating large 400 series fleets. BA/Lufthansa may buy a few but most airlines will opt for A380 as the economics side make it the right choice. A380's are profitable once they are 65% full.
As much as the 747 is an icon, its days as a passenger carrier appear to be numbered. With only 25 ordered from 2 airlines (apart from VIP versions for Boeing) the out;ook is not so good.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
@BOACMach2 REALLY??? Lets see Airbus sell a 40 year old airplane - that can still compete with the newer modles in the air!!!!!!!!!!!! The 747 is the Queen of the skies - and will be for another 40 years!!!!!!!
Earthlinked 1 year ago
@Earthlinked Seems to me the only saving grace will be sales of the freighter as there is no competition on that front. I have flown both Boeing and Airbus over the years. Both are great products but people need to fly in the A380 to appreciate just how good it is.
BOACMach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Dear All,
I have some questions about psychology:
(1)Why do we love flying?
(2) Wy do we want to imagine that ocean animals can fly in the sky, especially children?
(3) Why do we like to imagine and to image aeroplanes as ocean animals? (eg. 747 = whale & 787 = dolphin)
(4) Why do we want to build an aeroplane looking like a penguin in the ocean?
(5) Why do we enjoy to image sea animals are flying at sea?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for your creative ideas and brainstorm!!! :)
applesweeter 1 year ago
Hi I think this is a really good tour of the plane. I have one question what music did you use.
CyclonePresentations 1 year ago
flytalon your just pissed because airbus sucks and boeing has a far better safety record. american engineering kicks ass
lugeman221 1 year ago
Flytalon, if you can read ,read my name . I am not Original American . I am From Persia . Boeing is bay far a superior Passenger Aircraft .
RoyalPersia 1 year ago
@RoyalPersia I am not an American too, I am from Indonesia, Boeing is really really good! A lot better than the other. A lot airline in my country buy and order Boeing airplane.
Boeingloverzz 1 year ago
@flytalon im pretty sure dats u
knightfox123 1 year ago
oh Fatima your videos are PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and Boeing rulez!! ;)
748 will be much more sucsesfull than any airbus!! :D
btw whats the name of the song? :D
5IrFaN5 1 year ago
actualy Cathay Pacific is the first customer they should recieve it in a few days or they already have it, but it's the freighter version, lufthansa is gets the first intercontinental version
KCBOYZ1307 1 year ago
=* (
heartlessvietboy 1 year ago
Airbus copies much things from boeing.
Boeing 787 With Long range, and much fuel saving
= A350 Claims to be 8% more fuel efficent than 787.
MD11 (Cancelled) was the original A380 and was going to be made by boeing.
777 with long range and much seat capacity = A340 (But with 4 smaller engines.)
Kimflash 1 year ago
@Kimflash Haha you are an idiot. First, Airbus was first that made fly by wire, now boeing uses it too (without pilot error prevent systems ofc) in their new planes, 777 and 787.
Second, MD-11 is not cancelled, i think you meant MD-12, and it had nothing to do with A380.
A340 first flight was 1991, B777 1994, so you cant say that Airbus copy boeing.
Competition is not same as copying, but it seems that you little boeing fans cant hold little competition from airbus, and call it to copying.
Pvjinflight 1 year ago
@Pvjinflight I am a Boeing fan, but in this case I think I agree with you. A380 has nothing to do with MD-12 & 777 is made several years after A340. Also about fly by wire. Boeing & Airbus is in a competition, there's nothing's wrong with copying models, system, and technology.
Boeingloverzz 1 year ago
@Kimflash And are you saying that just because Mcdonnell Douglas forgot MD-12 project, its wrong that Airbus made A380, which actually have nothing to do with MD-12 design. MD-12 project was dead before boeing bought MD.
Pvjinflight 1 year ago
@Kimflash you punkass desepticon!
you dont know a @hit!!
in 1993 boeing cancelled the MD12!
airbus started to dream about a380 in 1991
md12 was stared in early 80 you dickhead!!!!
so airbus copyed boeing!!!
PUNKASS!!
5IrFaN5 1 year ago
@5IrFaN5 Thats what i meant that Airbus copied Boeing
Sorry if i writhed wrong in my previous comment becuase what i meant is that
MD-12 is the Original design of the AIRBUS A380
Kimflash 1 year ago
@Kimflash Ok sorry than :D
5IrFaN5 1 year ago
HAVE FLOWN OVER THE PACIFIC OVER 100 TIMES . BOEING IS BY FAR A BETTER AIRCRAFT THAT AIRBUS . HAVE FLOWN THEM BOTH LOTS OF TIMES . BOEING FEELS LIKE A CADILLAC , AIRBUS LIKE A TRUCK
RoyalPersia 1 year ago 7
@RoyalPersia Nothing made in Europe can feel like a cadillac or a truck, it always as to be allot better!Doesn't even have to be a car.
rmirandauk 1 year ago
@RoyalPersia when people ask me wich is better boeing or airbus, i allways ask them the difference between a bugatti veryon and a volkswagen transporter driving on square wheels!
All you guys, thumbs up if you don't just think, but know and experience that boeing is far, far better then airbus!!!!
samm1551995 1 year ago 3
@RoyalPersia And Tupolev like a limo ^^
TonyFirelli 1 year ago
@RoyalPersia but it kinda sucks how Boeing isnt really that into the public than Airbus. I love Boeing but's said how Airbus had documentaries on the the Science Channel while Boeing keeps quiet
86Timewarp 1 year ago