I vomited in a childish way because of death on the cross. It seems to be my imagination but my childish vomiting at disgusting things is very real. Yes it's very negative optimism, but the essence of philosophy, pessimistic or not, is the optimism in it: seeing the best in what the pessimist thinks & seeing the best in seeing the worst yourself. I'm not stopping there, I was almost a Buddhist when I applied Schopenhauer, truth is it differs because you can have your own kind of discomfort w it!
Schopenhauer is extremely sceptical. I'm extremely sceptical, and empirical scepticism is useless, only the contrary is better, like nihilism and solipsism & agnosticism. Suicide is bad, so we can live and be indifferent to dying. Schopenhauer, how do you sleep at night? In my own light, it's the things said about me that's bad, like I'm disruptive, problematic, or loud/shouting, no! I'm very unlucky, no one is unluckier than me. I'm the unluckiest. Ignorance (not Schopenhauer) beating guys=will
Do you know that Christianity is correct? The world around us reveals that G-d DOES exist, and the historical evidence reveals that Jesus Christ really did come to this earth and there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ really did physically rise from the dead. Jesus is coming again and the signs of the end times that were foretold in the Bible are coming to pass.
The assumption is that suicide is purely for escape. It can, in fact, be the greatest act of freedom of will. If one is sentenced to death, then suicide is an act of taking your death into your own hands, and can be a sign of resistance.
suicide is not selfish you fucking idiots, people who are suicidal are entitled to there own decisions , do you think they give a fuck about anyone, the answer is NO, why because thats the only way out for them.. they feel more of all the pain and there mind is blank ..
@buzzy0016 selfless in the term of universe and it's consciousness. It's an escape from a conscious universe without playing your part. And i spoke of it out of absurd notion and the rebel of the mind from reality irrespective of pain or misery. I consider that every individual holds its own consciousness and creates a universe out of it. And he has a right to escape it.
@prabjot32 its not selfish nor selfless.when you wanna commit suicide,you just wanna end your misery or your pain.it has nothing to do with other people or your well being because we're talking about suicide.after you kill yourself,your DEAD.so its not selfish because you dont gain anything from it.its not only your pain that ends but also the rest of your life,EVERYTHING.your just ending your life because you dont want your life anymore.so technically,your throwing your life away to end pain.
I disagree with his view that people aren't angry at those who commit suicide. Not entirely true. Also, even if it's not uncommon to resent suicide in religion, The State has legislated against it. That's obviously a form of disapproval
I was recently thinking of suicide. not to do it of course. what goes on in a persons mind what would make a person do that. this could be a self destruction mechanism that is a part of the mind and body. as a way to protect it's species.
A neuorological disability is a physical problem. I have no respect for bullies. That's how I feel. But this is not the topic of this thread, Lets stop boring people, Please do no respond.
Shopehauer lived at a time when Buddhists texts were first translated into western languadges. He read them and was influenced by them. But he misunderstood them, He thought Nirvana equals nothingness. Buddha taught that Nirvana is the extinction of craving. It happens while you are alive. What happens to such a person when s/he dies? Buddha was asked, but refused to answer.
Nobody aims at putting one's body's existence to an end. Once you're dead, your body is just a piece of meat and bones.
Like a glass is empty when you pour out the fluid. To satisfy thirst, the point is to drink the water, not to annihilate the glass. Once you've drank all the water, and you are thirsty no more, you don't care about the vessel anymore. It's because the essence of satisfying your thirst is not in the glass, but the fluid.
@Mazarbul All we are are walking pieces of meat. Walking corpses. A skeleton wraped in veins, muscle, and flesh; organs that maintains our body without are command; a nerveous system that causes us to react to stimuli. We consume other living things to maintain our own preservation. We urinate and deficate; we sucumbe to diseases; our flesh burns, our bones break. We promulgate our species through an act that we ourselves were the results of. We are merely the sum of the world.
@danieljliversLXXXIX Well, that's how you see the Universe. What I meant was that people are not committing a suicide because they are not interested in existing, but rather because they are at pain, rarely physical pain, to be clear. A "state of mind", causing this pain, cannot always be explained by a medical diagnosis, saying that it is the result of too low level of this, or too high level of that compound in our system. Hence, this pain is to be treated as metaphysical pain, Weltschmertz.
@danieljliversLXXXIX Well, yes, suffering. It looked more like you were reducing a human being to a handful of elements, making all suffering worthless, and through that - taking away from suicide the potential of preserving one's dignity. Yes - we are animals, but at the same time we are more than them.
@danieljliversLXXXIX All depends on how you define what the World contains, I reckon, in that case. If you insist on this approach, however, I would suggest you consider that we are not a sum, but rather a synergistic product: more than just the simple total of elements.
@Mazarbul We live and die, as everything else does. How are we not the sum of the world? Because we have culture, civilization, law, intellectual curiosity, and philosophy? Pure fictions divorced from the real world.
@danieljliversLXXXIX Again, that is YOUR point of view. I do not see how culture, civilization, law and philosophy are fictitious. Have we not got them? Do any other known species have them? To someone it's the matter that is the fiction, and the mind makes for all there is. What makes you want to live? In fact - why are you still alive? I dare to say, that proposed materialistic POV does not encourage continuing one's existence, since it's (supposedly) pointless. Why not die this very moment?
@Mazarbul I always stay away from that phrase of empirical nigation: that's your 'point of view'. It doesn't solve or reavel anything. Anyways... They're ficticious as in they're entertainment. Our lives are still just as meaningless and dull with them. All they serve is man's self gratifying need for an affirmation of his own life. Instead of being in the world -- with all of it's pleasures, pains, joys, and sufferings -- he tries to create walls around himself. That's all they are. Walls.
@Mazarbul Life isn't essentually pointless. It's only pointless because of our condition; our "intellectual curiosity." Reflecting on life is what makes it seem meaningless. Animals aren't concerned with the worth or lack there of of life. Only humans. Because they have something called civilazation -- which might have taken them out of the jungle, it made they're lifes meaningless, so they created "philosophy" to gratify these feelings of worthlessness.
@danieljliversLXXXIX Things you're mentioning couldn't have made men's lives pointless, since they already were in such condition. You are right, that animals don't realize that - and that is what makes them animals. Those are philosophies that make man realize this fact, if it only is true. The only thing the abovementioned [philosophy, civilization, etc.] could have done was MAKING them purposeful. Whether they are fictitious or not is a matter of ontology. You're clearly a nominalist here.
@Mazarbul Life became pointless when man started reflecting upon it. The struggles and successess of the day only show how empty our lives are. A contintuous and endless succession of trials and tribulations that, while in matters of day-to-day affairs may seem meaningful, are null. Out of the chaos man creates philosophy to counter these insecurities. Since animals and brutes don't reflect upon this their lives our blissful.
@danieljliversLXXXIX For what we are capable of is that we can, like no else creature, set goals for ourselves, making our lives purposeful, even if they have no purpose in the beginning. But then you'll say: "purpose is non-existent". Well, if you stick to the materialistic philosophy, it is so. And it does bother me at times. But it can't be proven. Don't you think that a pointless, meaningless life is very sad after all? You'll probaly say that's irrelevant. Well, try to think that it isn't.
@Mazarbul I spoke to soon at the end of my last comment because it fits more with this one. Purpose only exists in the human sphere. Actually I wasn't even going to say that. (Rather presumptuous). Infact it could be want makes man suffer the most. The want of a purporse. Animals don't sit and think of their purposes. That's the difference between being in the world and reflecting upon it. Man reflects, animals are. I think being wilfuly ignorant of the state of the human condition is sad.
@danieljliversLXXXIX I think that if you're suffering, be it fictitious or not, death would be an escape from this unpleasant state, thus it is meaningful and purposeful since it relieves you from the pain. How can you say then, that death is meaningless? It is even more so, if life is, in fact, pointless, and that's what's making you suffer. The more pointless life is, the more meaningful is ending it. And in reverse - the more purposeful life is, the more death's meaningless.
@Mazarbul Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and Camus all inferred that suicide was, in the end, pointless because it doesn't relieve one from the sufferings of life but affirms it. And I if I say that life is meaningless then death, which is apart of life, is also meaningless. Then again I don't say that life is meaningless, just that our search for meaning and stability is futile. Having a purposeful life isn't going to overcast the darkness of life. It will still be there.
@danieljliversLXXXIX Your philospohy is self-contradictory. Continuing one's existence despite sufferings, in hope of future joy, gives purpose to the suffering. In how life looks like from your perspective, no suffering or joy is greater that another, hence one should end one's life as soon as the suffering comes, because death is the only resort, isn't it. Otherwise, every suffering that didn't make you kill yourself, gives itself a purpose, by being a step on your way to joy.
@Mazarbul Suffering gives mans life meaning. The suffering in our lifes always outweighs the joys. But it's also possible to take joy in suffering, just as joy can also lead to suffering. Suicide is just as futile an attempt for a man to rid himself of misery than it is to look for meaning.
And I haven't killed myself yet because I enjoy being alive. Self-contradictory? And?
@danieljliversLXXXIX lol Really, this discussion is clearly going nowhere. You juggle with the terms "meaning" and "purpose" and fit them for your needs, at all times being consistent in your inconsistency. It is, obviously, impossible to discuss with an interlocutor with such an attitude. There is hardly any logic in your reasoning. It's rather sophistic. If a quality of being self-contradictory is not an obstacle for you in sensible argumentation, then I'm not a partner for debates with you.
Cheers mate! And no, enjoying being alive...is not self-contradictory. Enjoy your life, to the fullest...every moment of it. It's the only one you will have, and at every twist and turn, you have the power with your own mind, to create your own meaning in life...something that will make you say: "THIS is what makes life worth living." Sod suicide, why dive in head first into the inevitable?...milk the game for what it's worth...and spit in death's face while you can.
@FireWhisp You are totally wrong. To say that people could pull themselves together but for some obscure reason choose not to and are thus to be disrespected as cowards or whatever is idiotic. Some people have a weaker physical constitution, others a weaker mental constitution, and some have far more grief and pain to bear than others.
But in any case, why should a person not kill themselves??
@01blackpete1True. Some people are simply not capable of pulling themselves together. How could they do so if they lack the necessary strenght in the first place? Others, on the other hand , are not weak at all, but the kind of difficulties they are facing are completely overwhelming, and as such imposible for them to handle.
@fntime True, there are some who welcome pain and view any kind of suffering in a positive light. Some ascetics for instance. So maybe you are right, maybe life is worth living and pain should be endured just for the sake of learning or "understanding".
@fntime To break out of this personal prison? What does that even mean? You can not escape either pleasure or pain. Some may have more of the other than most. Pain and pleasure (or pleasure and pain) are just results from being alive.
@FireWhisp We all make choices. No-one will deny that. But the fact that we choose and the choices that we make very much depends on our psycho-somatic constitution. No free will.
@FireWhisp You miss the whole point. You can't just tell abused people to "get over themselves" and expect them to snap out of it. That is stupid, un-just and compassionless.
I thought your God would never give a stone to him who asked for bread? Believe me "He" does give further stones to eat. As Schopenhauer observed, the fancy that some benevolent God created this world of everlasting struggle is idiotic. If the God of theism is first mover then he takes the rap. God does not exist.
@FireWhisp No, he does NOT advocate suicide. You were not listening.
He is saying that suicide should not be criminalized. It is not the cowards way out.
The idea that we are all responsible for all of our own sufferings is idiotic. Try telling that to someone who was violently and sexually abused in infancy.
Such an eloquent mode of thought! I have always despised the way our modern philosophy has twisted what is right and wrong. I shouldn't surprise me that our current views regarding suicide were among those, yet it did. I find this passage to be very comforting to me.
@ 7:10 It is curious that Schopenhauer should neglect to mention 'The Sorrows of Young Werther' in this context, especially as he knew Goethe personally and by all appearances held him in the very highest esteem. It just seems so obvious a work to mention here, and its omission as puzzling as if a friend of Harriet Beecher Stowe were to were to discuss abolition without no mention of 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'.
Perhaps someone better versed in Schopenhauer than I can offer intelligent speculation.
A question I find myself wondering is "why"? Why existence? But why not? There is no other mode that I know of...still, if there is a grand purpose or design, to what end do humans's serve? Perhaps there is nothing we can understand completely. Perhaps purpose is a meaningless word. Nobody said existence had to be fair; justice is a human concept after all.
The thought of pain and grief that suicide brings to your loved ones or any thoughts that has to do with life itself when you decide that act is irellevant to the action itself. The pause of existence is without any concerns
The translator note: "Far from being a denial, suicide is an emphatic assertion of this will. For it is in fleeing from the pleasures, not from the sufferings of life, that this denial consists. When a man destroys his existence as an individual, he is not by any means destroying his will to live. On the contrary, he would like to live if he could do so with satisfaction to himself; if he could assert his will against the power of circumstance; but circumstance is too strong for him."
@gromby Short answer: Yes. Long answer: He acknowledges that its an inherent part of living creatures to want to live and reproduce (he tackles sexuality head on, one more thing that sets him apart from other philosophers). So too, "The Will" (which is the metaphysical thing in itself, not merely something psychological) cannot be abolished. However, he did see himself as being ascetic (like a monk). Keep in mind though, in reality, he was rich and spent it all on 'the finer things in life'.
the fall... I think that the 3rd law of motion apllies perfectly to our expanding knowledge. it leads us away from us... God like narcissus is awestruck by his image, his magnificent idea and creation, and falls victim to it .. ( I apologize, I have technical misunderstanding- I think)i
the fall... I think that the 3rd law of motion apllies perfectly to our expanding knowledge. it leads us away from us... God like narcissus is awestruck by his image, his magnificent idea and creation, and falls victim to it ..
I like to think of it not as an escape from despair, but a triumphal celebration of a superior will, a transcendnce pc of one's common base nature. One highest aim, to the defeat the most frightening dragon. and life's only true opportunity to excellence. everything else, success fame and so on , just diversion which the suoerior man will eventually recognize as discriminating. ,
I have never been able to learn how to spell. I still managed to get two bachelors degrees and four certificates, though. I have learning disabilities.
Spelling is not a measure of inteligence. People who critique an argument based on spelling errors are comiting what is know in logic as know in logic as an ad hominum attack. You are atacking the person, not adrressing the argument.
@milascave No, they are attacking the form of the argument not the person behind the argument. Spelling errors demonstrate a lack of education and tell me, the reader, that the author did not carefully construct their thoughts. An ad hominum attack would be more akin to attacking the person's appearance, reputation, or immutable characteristics.
@milascave2 Your first sentence is not analogous to my contention. A stutter is a physical problem whereas spelling is a mental problem. No one other than the source of a statement is responsible for poor spelling. I lack respect and give no credit to the ideas of those who make fundamental grammatical and spelling errors.
As a parting shot, your use of "yuck" is incorrect and should have been "yuk yuk."
@milascave I did not intend on commenting on this comment of yours, but you are correct and I agree. I majored in Philosophy and if I say so myself, I am super bright. That said, I ,like Sartre and other great minds (no, I am not modest), Simply think too fast to not make spelling errors. That is why I have an english major editing my upcoming book.
@milascave - there is no such thing as a measure of intelligence. Spelling may be taken by some to be an indicator of education, intelligence, or a broken keyboard.
The you of toay may not waant to do it, but the you of next Thursday might not.
Maybey I'm biased by memories of the day I spent snatching hidden razers from my (23 year old) ex wifes hands, until finaly I called the cops. Oh, and my father's suicide.
Philosopher and subjective shouldn't go together.He seems purely objective to me, he gets at the black truths of evolution and how cruel of a process it is. It is that unguided process that causes suffering.No matter when someone dies it causes pain to someone so is it selfish to say someone died of cancer, i think not. No matter how much one tries to control their will...others wills' still causes suffering. This will controls your ability to love for example..its not a choice.
Suicide is very painful to anybody who cared about the person who died it. That is why, exept in cases of a painful and incurable illness, I think it is a very selfish act.
To label the act of suicide, absolutely, as a "selfish" act...shows pure ignorance of the use of the word. It is to one's self-interest to end one's life -- rather than live it, preserve it, and fulfill it to the fullest that he or she can? Hardly, could it be considered as self-interest, to destroy the very self, you're claiming that you are committing the act to benefit. After you die, it's over...hell's only fiction, and heaven's nothing but a hope-laden superstition.
I think it's more complicated than that though... it's a balance of everyone's selfish needs. Those who want you to live, no matter how much or how long you suffer, are also being selfish by trying to keep you here. Likewise, the suicidal may truly believe that everyone will eventually be better off if he's gone.
I don't think it's clear who's right or wrong, but I do believe this: by CALLING the suicidal "selfish," we're really just screaming "please don't leave me!"
@jimmydaneable : I agree. I'm not condemning suicides. I think you might've misunderstood me. Did you read the message my first comment was a reply to?
And, who says that you, I or John Doe who's contemplating suicide as we speak, HAS any responsibility towards others? And who are those "others"? The entire planet? World, or humanity, if you want, will continue, just like it always did. The only people you are harming are the ones that care about you....but not all people have them, therefore, if there isn't anyone who would be devasted by my death, I have no responsibility.
@selvmordspilot The only other exception would be when people depend on someone and that person decides to kill himself. That is irresponsible
And who says that acts concerned with the self are morally wrong? Maybe it is selfish, but if it doesn't harm anyone, no one has the right to condemn it.
@milascave It's up to the individual to decide. The individuals happiness is ten times more important than those around him. I used to think it was selfish, but now I think, it's a desperate attempt at happiness.
@milascave Did you ever had suicidal thoughts? I had it for a long time of 14 terrible months, daily. I can tell you that it is not depending from your age. I´m still pretty young and I don´t miss anything on this world. I had depressions without any reason and I fought till I am healthy now again. When you got such thoughts, you would never think about if it is selfish, or not, you know?
@milascave (ff) I knew the heart of my mum would be broken, and my girlfriend would miss me, but nevertheless sometimes it was very close. When you are down and you must feel all the insults by other people, just because they are believe it´s your own guilt, that you are down? Is it not more selfish? I´m not sure! By the way, Arthur Schopenhauer was against suicide!! (-;
there are numerous instances when that act only brings temporary sadness to some people but does not ruin their lives. Only those that are about to abandon someone who would be completely destroyed by that loss, have some responsibility.
There are people who have no parents, partners, childrn or siblings, and I don't think that spoiling your coworkers' weekend is a valid objection against the idea.
He accepts suffering as a part of life, but a painful death is far to much, he is not a god after all. It would seem that pain is actually a greater load then death itself. When there are no more solutions, when ones own body is dying, then there is only one exit, a complete liberation from all the pain and suffering. Liberty and peace, would this not console you too?
Think about a person who loves life, affirms it in every accept, in joy in pain. But let us not forget he is still human, all to human. What if he gets sick, very sick. Before the medical exams and knowing exactly what he has, he starts to imagine. What if he got cancer, hiv, or some other terminal disease. It makes one face death, to realize it can actually happen to him, and not only death, but a painful one.
He doesn't mention anything about the terrible effect suicide has on very close relatives particularly the parents and children of the individual who commits suicide.
I think the reason for this rather glaring oversight is that Schopenhauer was unmarried, had no children himself and had a poor relationship with his mother, (his father having died when Schopenhauer was a young adult. Therefore he had no very close familial bonds in his life.
@Tadgh78 Actually, if there is anyone who understands the effects of suicide on the loved ones it´s Shopenhauer. You mention that his father died, well, he died killing himself. This the real reason he sort of defends suicide in the first place.
@figocooldude In that case I'd say he is too close to the issue of suicide to be considered an impartial or reliable commentator on it.
But in any case it doesn't alter the fact that suicide very often has strong negative effects on other family members, and this is something Schopenhauer for whatever reason, fails to address.
Reading these posts reminds me of how sad our society really is, one based on gains, profits and an "elevation" in material status, everyone a robot, trying to fill that gaping whole where human compassion used to be. Suicide is for the people who see the insignificance in life. However to make suicide illegal is an infringement on one's own most basic liberties. Some suicidal ppl are very rational, who are you to force one into a life sentence in a societal prison for no crime?
@limduul Yes, I´m still not convinced by Camus reasons not to kill oneself. Although he was right in saying that the fundamental problem in philosophy is suicide.
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Suicide is the problem of teens, who lack complete education, but just heard some bits and pieces from philosophy and start asking questions about life and its purpose. Such egocentrism shall pass as time goes forward and more knowledge is gained.
@CharmanKaga Statistically that is not true, youngsters unfortunately over number the elderly in their attempts to end life. Check the patients ages at the mental hospitals at the wards for suicidal patients.
...respect. Look at Einstein's "Ideas and Opinions". They're mostly shallow and some are just plain ignorant.
He hastily judged Nietzsche as some sort of proto-nazi, which inspired Walter Kaufmann to dispell that myth.
Heidegger was a Nazi, some great writers today are member of backwards social movvements... What can I say. People are complex. Judge their work first, take their lives into account, but don't let it determine the value of their work for you.
...with women affecting their work and their opinions of them in general (so, they made at least one hasty generalization). A lot has to be chalked up to the times they were living in as well. There were effectively no feminists.
Also, Nietzsche's sister was a Nazi. If part of the hasty generalization was made from her character, then it doesn't seem all that bad.
Also, keep in mind that being a genius in one respect (take Einstein on physics) does not make you a genius in every....
To be fair, Nietzsche wrote some things (in the Gay Science, although I can't remember exactly where) which were preeminent to modern feminism about how women were (and arguably still are) basically just dressing, acting, etc... so as to appease men and get into relationships.
Aside from that, Schop. was just a bad ass. He's also advocating suicide in the excerpt being read out from one of his essays on pessimism.
In the end, some can be chalked up to their own personal problems...
Ok, I'm going to finally say it here on the innernets. For years I've heard about the lives and sayings of people like Plato, Democritus, Socrates... and reading about the history of science; and, is it just me, or was Aristotle an a-hole? I've not heard one good thing about him in my whole life. What did he do that makes him "great"?
he is entirely correct.. to whose standards is the decision to put an "end" (if it is an end, or possibly the beginning) to your existance on this planet or illusion or dream or whatever it may be, regarded as morally wrong or unstable. Surely life isn't a sinch whatsover, as even the slightest mishap or flaw has the potential to posses the mind into going forth, and ending this.. so why judge from another body and mind that a man be mad for pursuing a mission of the such? Just a thought.
You cannot escape existence. Even when you die, your body continues to exist and is still a burden. It has to be cremated or buried.
There is nothing wrong with dying at the right time. The Samurais knew this. When the passion of life has faded or the purpose is complete, then maybe it is time.
@jimbodune "You" escape existence the moment you die, but "your body" continues existing in the *other sense* of the word as a physical object. I don't assume you intended to equivocate the two, but there's a significant unstated distinction there.
@jimbodune "You cannot escape existence. Even when you die, your body continues to exist and is still a burden. It has to be cremated or buried." What do either of these processes accomplish that is not done by the decomposition of the body that is naturally inevitable after death? Are you suggesting that one will inhabit their dead body? What is your source for this infirmation?
@jimbodune Your body is not you. Your existence is contained within the totality of your consciousness. When you die, presumably, your consciousness dies with you. If existing is being conscious, dying is being removed from existence.
The existence of an object or body is irrelevant to the subject that no longer exists.
@CrimsonToast My statement is a reference to Jean-Paul Sartre's Being and Nothingness. Existence is based on being-in-itself, being-for-itself, and being-for-others. Maybe you can escape the being-for-itself and being-for-others in death but never being-in-itself.
nothing is certain, if man has one flaw it is that he deals in absolutes too much and thus creates brain patterns of absolutes and certainty being the focus as oppose to learning being the focus, in a nutshell, focus on the journey not the destination, the destination is non-applicable to your state as of current and never will be so why fathom it continuously??
Nihilism plus Schopenhauer's views on suicide are a very deadly combination. Good thing that Nietzsche realized a solution to the emptiness of nihilism, because, quite frankly, Schopenhauer's arguments are quite compelling.
Schopenhauer was a real pessimist, but he was a great thinker. I only condone suicide in cases where unendurable physiological pain and suffering cannot be reversed. I don't, however, believe that suicide should be deemed a crime. How practical is it for us to declare suicide a crime? It should be treated as a result of psychological sickness, not a crime. To punish or imprison a person who has attempted and failed to commit suicide is to display an antipathetic scorn for the sufferer.
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Germania has produced the greatest humans the world has known. The lying, thieving turd-people jews have never produced anyone who comes within a 1000 miles of Goethe, Schopenhauer, Kant, Nietzsche, Hegel, Luther, Liebniz, Porsche, Benz, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Brahms, Brothers Grimm, Die Brucke, Werner Von Braun, Gutenberg and the list is long. The jews were made out of the afterbirth of life by Satan after God had left the room to scratch himself
I am in full agreement with you; I am a xenophile...but only for german culture and for the people whom you've just named. But have must you attack jews this way! My God!
Certainly, I agree with Jennifer. There are so many philosophical & historical figures to study: it is important to spend more time with those you are in sympathy with. I went off YT to learn more about Simone de Beauvoir, for example.
schopenhauer was very important, until WWI. Then, he fell out of favor. I listened to this, and to his opinions "Of Women." Why should we believe Schopenhauer, or anyone about anything we can not know for ourselves. I may be suicidal, but I'm not taking his word for it.
We don't have to take anybody's word on anything. We intake ideas and words and digest them according to our preference. The great thinkers and writers of history provide us a base with which to develop our own ideal, by giving ripened fruits to either take in and absorb or merely to pass out, disagreeable to our nature. For even to disagree wholly with a man's claim, have we not learned more of ourself to have it put to us?
Schopenhauer didn't live what he wrote. He joked about suicide over dinner and was a highly sexed being. He enjoyed life quite a bit. And of course, he never did the deed himself.
Physical pain is well known to overwhelm the senses until nothing is more important than getting rid of it. Emotional pain comes from being denied appropriate treatments for the physical pain. The inhumanity shown to allow the body to suffer until the mind s warped with anger and rage toward those responsible. Thoughts of murdering the perpetrator hound the victims of this abuse. Good men made to think bad things, restrained by their sense of justice and love for their fellow man.
While they fight over money, the victim, in pain, loses all. Sense of worth, pride, community, property, health, is gone when cast aside by society who cares not about you because you are now broken. Too much money to retrain they say, or we need to keep within budget they say. All the while you suffer in pain and poverty, wih the added stress of knowing they want you dead so they can avoid payment of compensation. I don't commit suicide because I won't give them the satisfaction.
Canada murders its injured workers who became disabled through no fault of their own. Canada takes the medical and legal rights away. They don't allow for justice, or relief of pain. Torture is to inflict pain on someone knowingly and repetively. Torture is causing mental torment. Torture is not allowing a person to get well and forced to suffer in pain and poverty. Chronic pain induced through accident, untreated because of government insurance fraud in Canada. Thousands dead or impoverished
Don't remind me of suicide, I never thought Schopenhauerism was suicide. It's not fun to hear, you have failed at talking bad with passion.
Hoobifta 3 days ago
I vomited in a childish way because of death on the cross. It seems to be my imagination but my childish vomiting at disgusting things is very real. Yes it's very negative optimism, but the essence of philosophy, pessimistic or not, is the optimism in it: seeing the best in what the pessimist thinks & seeing the best in seeing the worst yourself. I'm not stopping there, I was almost a Buddhist when I applied Schopenhauer, truth is it differs because you can have your own kind of discomfort w it!
Hoobifta 3 days ago
Schopenhauer is extremely sceptical. I'm extremely sceptical, and empirical scepticism is useless, only the contrary is better, like nihilism and solipsism & agnosticism. Suicide is bad, so we can live and be indifferent to dying. Schopenhauer, how do you sleep at night? In my own light, it's the things said about me that's bad, like I'm disruptive, problematic, or loud/shouting, no! I'm very unlucky, no one is unluckier than me. I'm the unluckiest. Ignorance (not Schopenhauer) beating guys=will
Hoobifta 3 days ago
One of my favourite essays and great voice. Thanks for sharing!
TheWendingRoad 3 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
I bet Schopenhauer would have hated that noisy intro :D
LostRituals 4 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
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Do you know that Christianity is correct? The world around us reveals that G-d DOES exist, and the historical evidence reveals that Jesus Christ really did come to this earth and there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ really did physically rise from the dead. Jesus is coming again and the signs of the end times that were foretold in the Bible are coming to pass.
marionetemanJ 1 month ago
The assumption is that suicide is purely for escape. It can, in fact, be the greatest act of freedom of will. If one is sentenced to death, then suicide is an act of taking your death into your own hands, and can be a sign of resistance.
ishinadish 1 month ago
Legalize assisted suicide, good vid.
RationalSuicide 1 month ago
suicide is not selfish you fucking idiots, people who are suicidal are entitled to there own decisions , do you think they give a fuck about anyone, the answer is NO, why because thats the only way out for them.. they feel more of all the pain and there mind is blank ..
NZtenga 1 month ago
@buzzy0016 selfless in the term of universe and it's consciousness. It's an escape from a conscious universe without playing your part. And i spoke of it out of absurd notion and the rebel of the mind from reality irrespective of pain or misery. I consider that every individual holds its own consciousness and creates a universe out of it. And he has a right to escape it.
prabjot32 4 months ago
Suicide is not selfish but selfless as you're sparing the world another failure.
prabjot32 4 months ago
@prabjot32 its not selfish nor selfless.when you wanna commit suicide,you just wanna end your misery or your pain.it has nothing to do with other people or your well being because we're talking about suicide.after you kill yourself,your DEAD.so its not selfish because you dont gain anything from it.its not only your pain that ends but also the rest of your life,EVERYTHING.your just ending your life because you dont want your life anymore.so technically,your throwing your life away to end pain.
buzzy0016 4 months ago
I disagree with his view that people aren't angry at those who commit suicide. Not entirely true. Also, even if it's not uncommon to resent suicide in religion, The State has legislated against it. That's obviously a form of disapproval
alistairproductions 5 months ago
I was recently thinking of suicide. not to do it of course. what goes on in a persons mind what would make a person do that. this could be a self destruction mechanism that is a part of the mind and body. as a way to protect it's species.
boogerfly100 5 months ago
@boogerfly100 Lack of serotonin.
Averagegamer100 5 months ago
@Averagegamer100 yes i agree
boogerfly100 5 months ago
What a hero.
A grandfather of our more Libertarian thoughts. <3
LordShivasServant 6 months ago
A neuorological disability is a physical problem. I have no respect for bullies. That's how I feel. But this is not the topic of this thread, Lets stop boring people, Please do no respond.
milascave2 7 months ago
Shopehauer lived at a time when Buddhists texts were first translated into western languadges. He read them and was influenced by them. But he misunderstood them, He thought Nirvana equals nothingness. Buddha taught that Nirvana is the extinction of craving. It happens while you are alive. What happens to such a person when s/he dies? Buddha was asked, but refused to answer.
milascave2 7 months ago
Nobody aims at putting one's body's existence to an end. Once you're dead, your body is just a piece of meat and bones.
Like a glass is empty when you pour out the fluid. To satisfy thirst, the point is to drink the water, not to annihilate the glass. Once you've drank all the water, and you are thirsty no more, you don't care about the vessel anymore. It's because the essence of satisfying your thirst is not in the glass, but the fluid.
Matter is meaningless.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul All we are are walking pieces of meat. Walking corpses. A skeleton wraped in veins, muscle, and flesh; organs that maintains our body without are command; a nerveous system that causes us to react to stimuli. We consume other living things to maintain our own preservation. We urinate and deficate; we sucumbe to diseases; our flesh burns, our bones break. We promulgate our species through an act that we ourselves were the results of. We are merely the sum of the world.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX Well, that's how you see the Universe. What I meant was that people are not committing a suicide because they are not interested in existing, but rather because they are at pain, rarely physical pain, to be clear. A "state of mind", causing this pain, cannot always be explained by a medical diagnosis, saying that it is the result of too low level of this, or too high level of that compound in our system. Hence, this pain is to be treated as metaphysical pain, Weltschmertz.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul In other words, suffering. But then again my comment was only addressing one sentence of your comment.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX Well, yes, suffering. It looked more like you were reducing a human being to a handful of elements, making all suffering worthless, and through that - taking away from suicide the potential of preserving one's dignity. Yes - we are animals, but at the same time we are more than them.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul Like I said, we are the sum of the world. We cannot be more than anything.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX All depends on how you define what the World contains, I reckon, in that case. If you insist on this approach, however, I would suggest you consider that we are not a sum, but rather a synergistic product: more than just the simple total of elements.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul We live and die, as everything else does. How are we not the sum of the world? Because we have culture, civilization, law, intellectual curiosity, and philosophy? Pure fictions divorced from the real world.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX Again, that is YOUR point of view. I do not see how culture, civilization, law and philosophy are fictitious. Have we not got them? Do any other known species have them? To someone it's the matter that is the fiction, and the mind makes for all there is. What makes you want to live? In fact - why are you still alive? I dare to say, that proposed materialistic POV does not encourage continuing one's existence, since it's (supposedly) pointless. Why not die this very moment?
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul I always stay away from that phrase of empirical nigation: that's your 'point of view'. It doesn't solve or reavel anything. Anyways... They're ficticious as in they're entertainment. Our lives are still just as meaningless and dull with them. All they serve is man's self gratifying need for an affirmation of his own life. Instead of being in the world -- with all of it's pleasures, pains, joys, and sufferings -- he tries to create walls around himself. That's all they are. Walls.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@Mazarbul Life isn't essentually pointless. It's only pointless because of our condition; our "intellectual curiosity." Reflecting on life is what makes it seem meaningless. Animals aren't concerned with the worth or lack there of of life. Only humans. Because they have something called civilazation -- which might have taken them out of the jungle, it made they're lifes meaningless, so they created "philosophy" to gratify these feelings of worthlessness.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX Things you're mentioning couldn't have made men's lives pointless, since they already were in such condition. You are right, that animals don't realize that - and that is what makes them animals. Those are philosophies that make man realize this fact, if it only is true. The only thing the abovementioned [philosophy, civilization, etc.] could have done was MAKING them purposeful. Whether they are fictitious or not is a matter of ontology. You're clearly a nominalist here.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul Life became pointless when man started reflecting upon it. The struggles and successess of the day only show how empty our lives are. A contintuous and endless succession of trials and tribulations that, while in matters of day-to-day affairs may seem meaningful, are null. Out of the chaos man creates philosophy to counter these insecurities. Since animals and brutes don't reflect upon this their lives our blissful.
In the end, our cities fall, we become dust.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX For what we are capable of is that we can, like no else creature, set goals for ourselves, making our lives purposeful, even if they have no purpose in the beginning. But then you'll say: "purpose is non-existent". Well, if you stick to the materialistic philosophy, it is so. And it does bother me at times. But it can't be proven. Don't you think that a pointless, meaningless life is very sad after all? You'll probaly say that's irrelevant. Well, try to think that it isn't.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul I spoke to soon at the end of my last comment because it fits more with this one. Purpose only exists in the human sphere. Actually I wasn't even going to say that. (Rather presumptuous). Infact it could be want makes man suffer the most. The want of a purporse. Animals don't sit and think of their purposes. That's the difference between being in the world and reflecting upon it. Man reflects, animals are. I think being wilfuly ignorant of the state of the human condition is sad.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX I think that if you're suffering, be it fictitious or not, death would be an escape from this unpleasant state, thus it is meaningful and purposeful since it relieves you from the pain. How can you say then, that death is meaningless? It is even more so, if life is, in fact, pointless, and that's what's making you suffer. The more pointless life is, the more meaningful is ending it. And in reverse - the more purposeful life is, the more death's meaningless.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and Camus all inferred that suicide was, in the end, pointless because it doesn't relieve one from the sufferings of life but affirms it. And I if I say that life is meaningless then death, which is apart of life, is also meaningless. Then again I don't say that life is meaningless, just that our search for meaning and stability is futile. Having a purposeful life isn't going to overcast the darkness of life. It will still be there.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX Your philospohy is self-contradictory. Continuing one's existence despite sufferings, in hope of future joy, gives purpose to the suffering. In how life looks like from your perspective, no suffering or joy is greater that another, hence one should end one's life as soon as the suffering comes, because death is the only resort, isn't it. Otherwise, every suffering that didn't make you kill yourself, gives itself a purpose, by being a step on your way to joy.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul Suffering gives mans life meaning. The suffering in our lifes always outweighs the joys. But it's also possible to take joy in suffering, just as joy can also lead to suffering. Suicide is just as futile an attempt for a man to rid himself of misery than it is to look for meaning.
And I haven't killed myself yet because I enjoy being alive. Self-contradictory? And?
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX lol Really, this discussion is clearly going nowhere. You juggle with the terms "meaning" and "purpose" and fit them for your needs, at all times being consistent in your inconsistency. It is, obviously, impossible to discuss with an interlocutor with such an attitude. There is hardly any logic in your reasoning. It's rather sophistic. If a quality of being self-contradictory is not an obstacle for you in sensible argumentation, then I'm not a partner for debates with you.
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@Mazarbul Yep. You've got me down. Why think about something one way then in everyway you can? I'm a devils advocate.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX LOL So you like playing Socrates, huh? ;P
Mazarbul 7 months ago
@danieljliversLXXXIX
Cheers mate! And no, enjoying being alive...is not self-contradictory. Enjoy your life, to the fullest...every moment of it. It's the only one you will have, and at every twist and turn, you have the power with your own mind, to create your own meaning in life...something that will make you say: "THIS is what makes life worth living." Sod suicide, why dive in head first into the inevitable?...milk the game for what it's worth...and spit in death's face while you can.
ilovewiki 5 months ago
@Mazarbul Why am I still alive? Because death is also meaningless.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
That horrible voice doesn't match the face.
Please get someone who actually had breakfast!
VictorHugo289mex 7 months ago
This man is so wise and truthful. With Schopenhauer one can be certain that his quest for truth is one that is honest and unselfish.
childericking 9 months ago
I will kill myself now after hearing the truth.
Good bye human being you all suck with your evil ways and see you soon in the other side.
Peace OUT!
wahnano 9 months ago
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XSpaceStormX 9 months ago
Death doesn't destroys the consciousness, that is what continues existing, our essence.
SetrofSottam 9 months ago
One of my consolations The Great Schopenhauer
TheRoadsidePicnic 9 months ago
@FireWhisp You presume that you know what I have had to deal with, but in truth you are clueless.
01blackpete1 9 months ago
@FireWhisp You are totally wrong. To say that people could pull themselves together but for some obscure reason choose not to and are thus to be disrespected as cowards or whatever is idiotic. Some people have a weaker physical constitution, others a weaker mental constitution, and some have far more grief and pain to bear than others.
But in any case, why should a person not kill themselves??
01blackpete1 9 months ago
@01blackpete1True. Some people are simply not capable of pulling themselves together. How could they do so if they lack the necessary strenght in the first place? Others, on the other hand , are not weak at all, but the kind of difficulties they are facing are completely overwhelming, and as such imposible for them to handle.
childericking 9 months ago
@childericking You are right. But maybe, a soul in its journey through
eternity, needs to understand 'lack the necessary strength' or not being capable..
An 'experience' is worth a billion words.
Suicide may 'cheat' you of the 'painful experience' that is necessary for
"understanding".
fntime 8 months ago
@fntime True, there are some who welcome pain and view any kind of suffering in a positive light. Some ascetics for instance. So maybe you are right, maybe life is worth living and pain should be endured just for the sake of learning or "understanding".
childericking 7 months ago
@childericking I'm not an ascetic, but I refuse to let pain or pleasure 'control'
my will. Whether you are a man or a paramecium, pain & pleasure control you,
if you are not consciously aware. We often allow pain to alter our life plans &
goals. It doesn't have to be that way! Pain,pleasure & delusion,seems to be
the controlling influences of man. Man must breakout of his personal prison.
Unfortunately,he'll probably have to do it on his own. Schools, Religions and
Elders aren't any help.
fntime 7 months ago
@fntime To break out of this personal prison? What does that even mean? You can not escape either pleasure or pain. Some may have more of the other than most. Pain and pleasure (or pleasure and pain) are just results from being alive.
danieljliversLXXXIX 7 months ago
@FireWhisp We all make choices. No-one will deny that. But the fact that we choose and the choices that we make very much depends on our psycho-somatic constitution. No free will.
01blackpete1 9 months ago
@FireWhisp You miss the whole point. You can't just tell abused people to "get over themselves" and expect them to snap out of it. That is stupid, un-just and compassionless.
I thought your God would never give a stone to him who asked for bread? Believe me "He" does give further stones to eat. As Schopenhauer observed, the fancy that some benevolent God created this world of everlasting struggle is idiotic. If the God of theism is first mover then he takes the rap. God does not exist.
01blackpete1 10 months ago
@FireWhisp Normative Christianity is very largely COMPASSIONLESS. That is Schopenhauers point.
01blackpete1 10 months ago
@FireWhisp No, he does NOT advocate suicide. You were not listening.
He is saying that suicide should not be criminalized. It is not the cowards way out.
The idea that we are all responsible for all of our own sufferings is idiotic. Try telling that to someone who was violently and sexually abused in infancy.
01blackpete1 10 months ago
Such an eloquent mode of thought! I have always despised the way our modern philosophy has twisted what is right and wrong. I shouldn't surprise me that our current views regarding suicide were among those, yet it did. I find this passage to be very comforting to me.
darkridr25 10 months ago
@gromby I was paraphrasing Jean-Paul Sartre's existentialism novel titled Nausea.
jimbodune 10 months ago
@ 7:10 It is curious that Schopenhauer should neglect to mention 'The Sorrows of Young Werther' in this context, especially as he knew Goethe personally and by all appearances held him in the very highest esteem. It just seems so obvious a work to mention here, and its omission as puzzling as if a friend of Harriet Beecher Stowe were to were to discuss abolition without no mention of 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'.
Perhaps someone better versed in Schopenhauer than I can offer intelligent speculation.
polymath7 11 months ago
A question I find myself wondering is "why"? Why existence? But why not? There is no other mode that I know of...still, if there is a grand purpose or design, to what end do humans's serve? Perhaps there is nothing we can understand completely. Perhaps purpose is a meaningless word. Nobody said existence had to be fair; justice is a human concept after all.
FeelingFreshSon 11 months ago
Im not very familiar with sch.,but his opinion on suicide seems to come from the fear of death,is this so or has he a more dispassionate view?
brianmoran1973 11 months ago
I will not kill myself because I love life.
wahnano 1 year ago
@wahnano and you might love death,so there is no reason to condemn suicide
brianmoran1973 11 months ago
@wahnano
lol
aristocraticstock 10 months ago
The thought of pain and grief that suicide brings to your loved ones or any thoughts that has to do with life itself when you decide that act is irellevant to the action itself. The pause of existence is without any concerns
inv1e 1 year ago
The translator note: "Far from being a denial, suicide is an emphatic assertion of this will. For it is in fleeing from the pleasures, not from the sufferings of life, that this denial consists. When a man destroys his existence as an individual, he is not by any means destroying his will to live. On the contrary, he would like to live if he could do so with satisfaction to himself; if he could assert his will against the power of circumstance; but circumstance is too strong for him."
ReX342 1 year ago
@ReX342 So, does he recommend the abolishment of the will to live before death? As in Bhuddism.
gromby 10 months ago
@gromby Short answer: Yes. Long answer: He acknowledges that its an inherent part of living creatures to want to live and reproduce (he tackles sexuality head on, one more thing that sets him apart from other philosophers). So too, "The Will" (which is the metaphysical thing in itself, not merely something psychological) cannot be abolished. However, he did see himself as being ascetic (like a monk). Keep in mind though, in reality, he was rich and spent it all on 'the finer things in life'.
ReX342 10 months ago
the fall... I think that the 3rd law of motion apllies perfectly to our expanding knowledge. it leads us away from us... God like narcissus is awestruck by his image, his magnificent idea and creation, and falls victim to it .. ( I apologize, I have technical misunderstanding- I think)i
sintissimo 1 year ago
the fall... I think that the 3rd law of motion apllies perfectly to our expanding knowledge. it leads us away from us... God like narcissus is awestruck by his image, his magnificent idea and creation, and falls victim to it ..
sintissimo 1 year ago
I like to think of it not as an escape from despair, but a triumphal celebration of a superior will, a transcendnce pc of one's common base nature. One highest aim, to the defeat the most frightening dragon. and life's only true opportunity to excellence. everything else, success fame and so on , just diversion which the suoerior man will eventually recognize as discriminating. ,
sintissimo 1 year ago
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jimbodune 1 year ago
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jimbodune 1 year ago
I have never been able to learn how to spell. I still managed to get two bachelors degrees and four certificates, though. I have learning disabilities.
Spelling is not a measure of inteligence. People who critique an argument based on spelling errors are comiting what is know in logic as know in logic as an ad hominum attack. You are atacking the person, not adrressing the argument.
milascave 1 year ago 19
@milascave No, they are attacking the form of the argument not the person behind the argument. Spelling errors demonstrate a lack of education and tell me, the reader, that the author did not carefully construct their thoughts. An ad hominum attack would be more akin to attacking the person's appearance, reputation, or immutable characteristics.
LAballin24 7 months ago
@LAballin24 Would you similarly dismiss or attack the words of a stutter who was nevertheless understandable?
You seem to be utterly lacking in compassion, so you probably would.
Sentence number one was an example of logical analogy.
Sentence number two was an ad hominum attack.
Guess I have to spell it out for you.
Yuck yuck.
milascave2 7 months ago
@milascave2 Your first sentence is not analogous to my contention. A stutter is a physical problem whereas spelling is a mental problem. No one other than the source of a statement is responsible for poor spelling. I lack respect and give no credit to the ideas of those who make fundamental grammatical and spelling errors.
As a parting shot, your use of "yuck" is incorrect and should have been "yuk yuk."
LAballin24 7 months ago
@milascave I did not intend on commenting on this comment of yours, but you are correct and I agree. I majored in Philosophy and if I say so myself, I am super bright. That said, I ,like Sartre and other great minds (no, I am not modest), Simply think too fast to not make spelling errors. That is why I have an english major editing my upcoming book.
REASONINFUSION 6 months ago
@milascave - there is no such thing as a measure of intelligence. Spelling may be taken by some to be an indicator of education, intelligence, or a broken keyboard.
gwcstudio 4 months ago
When you grieve over the loss of a loved one, who are you more sorry for: them or you?
TheOldCrankyWorkshop 1 year ago 7
@TheOldCrankyWorkshop for yourself id say.people are selfish in this day and age.
buzzy0016 4 months ago
The you of toay may not waant to do it, but the you of next Thursday might not.
Maybey I'm biased by memories of the day I spent snatching hidden razers from my (23 year old) ex wifes hands, until finaly I called the cops. Oh, and my father's suicide.
milascave 1 year ago
@milascave Learn how to spell.
2rocker4life 1 year ago
Philosopher and subjective shouldn't go together.He seems purely objective to me, he gets at the black truths of evolution and how cruel of a process it is. It is that unguided process that causes suffering.No matter when someone dies it causes pain to someone so is it selfish to say someone died of cancer, i think not. No matter how much one tries to control their will...others wills' still causes suffering. This will controls your ability to love for example..its not a choice.
codester1111 1 year ago
Not under the law..
It's one thing for an 86 year old with incurable cancer to comit suicide.
Another for a 25 year old who just broke up with his/her partner to do it..
In short, it depends.
milascave 1 year ago
Suicide is very painful to anybody who cared about the person who died it. That is why, exept in cases of a painful and incurable illness, I think it is a very selfish act.
milascave 1 year ago
@milascave : It may be selfish, but it is the only selfish act the individual has an absolute right to.
selvmordspilot 1 year ago 8
@selvmordspilot
To label the act of suicide, absolutely, as a "selfish" act...shows pure ignorance of the use of the word. It is to one's self-interest to end one's life -- rather than live it, preserve it, and fulfill it to the fullest that he or she can? Hardly, could it be considered as self-interest, to destroy the very self, you're claiming that you are committing the act to benefit. After you die, it's over...hell's only fiction, and heaven's nothing but a hope-laden superstition.
ilovewiki 5 months ago
@ilovewiki : erhmm. I called it selfish, because it is an act that is only concerned with the self.
To forever escape all suffering, that is a selfish wish, especially if the price is to abandon everyone.
selvmordspilot 5 months ago
@selvmordspilot
I think it's more complicated than that though... it's a balance of everyone's selfish needs. Those who want you to live, no matter how much or how long you suffer, are also being selfish by trying to keep you here. Likewise, the suicidal may truly believe that everyone will eventually be better off if he's gone.
I don't think it's clear who's right or wrong, but I do believe this: by CALLING the suicidal "selfish," we're really just screaming "please don't leave me!"
jimmydaneable 5 months ago 6
@jimmydaneable : I agree. I'm not condemning suicides. I think you might've misunderstood me. Did you read the message my first comment was a reply to?
selvmordspilot 5 months ago
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@selvmordspilot
And, who says that you, I or John Doe who's contemplating suicide as we speak, HAS any responsibility towards others? And who are those "others"? The entire planet? World, or humanity, if you want, will continue, just like it always did. The only people you are harming are the ones that care about you....but not all people have them, therefore, if there isn't anyone who would be devasted by my death, I have no responsibility.
elendil77 1 month ago
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@selvmordspilot The only other exception would be when people depend on someone and that person decides to kill himself. That is irresponsible
And who says that acts concerned with the self are morally wrong? Maybe it is selfish, but if it doesn't harm anyone, no one has the right to condemn it.
elendil77 1 month ago
@milascave It's up to the individual to decide. The individuals happiness is ten times more important than those around him. I used to think it was selfish, but now I think, it's a desperate attempt at happiness.
Meggerr69 1 year ago
@milascave Did you ever had suicidal thoughts? I had it for a long time of 14 terrible months, daily. I can tell you that it is not depending from your age. I´m still pretty young and I don´t miss anything on this world. I had depressions without any reason and I fought till I am healthy now again. When you got such thoughts, you would never think about if it is selfish, or not, you know?
matjesworld 1 year ago
@milascave (ff) I knew the heart of my mum would be broken, and my girlfriend would miss me, but nevertheless sometimes it was very close. When you are down and you must feel all the insults by other people, just because they are believe it´s your own guilt, that you are down? Is it not more selfish? I´m not sure! By the way, Arthur Schopenhauer was against suicide!! (-;
matjesworld 1 year ago
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@milascave It doesn't matter how you feel about it.
ZuccottiPark 2 months ago
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@milascave
there are numerous instances when that act only brings temporary sadness to some people but does not ruin their lives. Only those that are about to abandon someone who would be completely destroyed by that loss, have some responsibility.
There are people who have no parents, partners, childrn or siblings, and I don't think that spoiling your coworkers' weekend is a valid objection against the idea.
elendil77 1 month ago
He accepts suffering as a part of life, but a painful death is far to much, he is not a god after all. It would seem that pain is actually a greater load then death itself. When there are no more solutions, when ones own body is dying, then there is only one exit, a complete liberation from all the pain and suffering. Liberty and peace, would this not console you too?
figocooldude 1 year ago
Think about a person who loves life, affirms it in every accept, in joy in pain. But let us not forget he is still human, all to human. What if he gets sick, very sick. Before the medical exams and knowing exactly what he has, he starts to imagine. What if he got cancer, hiv, or some other terminal disease. It makes one face death, to realize it can actually happen to him, and not only death, but a painful one.
figocooldude 1 year ago
He doesn't mention anything about the terrible effect suicide has on very close relatives particularly the parents and children of the individual who commits suicide.
I think the reason for this rather glaring oversight is that Schopenhauer was unmarried, had no children himself and had a poor relationship with his mother, (his father having died when Schopenhauer was a young adult. Therefore he had no very close familial bonds in his life.
Tadgh78 1 year ago
It could also have to with him understanding that a man has no responsibility to endure life just so that women and the like can exploit him.
tedronaimoridin 1 year ago
@Tadgh78 Actually, if there is anyone who understands the effects of suicide on the loved ones it´s Shopenhauer. You mention that his father died, well, he died killing himself. This the real reason he sort of defends suicide in the first place.
figocooldude 1 year ago
@figocooldude In that case I'd say he is too close to the issue of suicide to be considered an impartial or reliable commentator on it.
But in any case it doesn't alter the fact that suicide very often has strong negative effects on other family members, and this is something Schopenhauer for whatever reason, fails to address.
Tadgh78 1 year ago
@Tadgh78 Yes, I wonder why. Well, we are with a subjective philosopher, so the notion of impartial losses it´s meaning.
figocooldude 1 year ago
Reading these posts reminds me of how sad our society really is, one based on gains, profits and an "elevation" in material status, everyone a robot, trying to fill that gaping whole where human compassion used to be. Suicide is for the people who see the insignificance in life. However to make suicide illegal is an infringement on one's own most basic liberties. Some suicidal ppl are very rational, who are you to force one into a life sentence in a societal prison for no crime?
limduul 1 year ago 13
@limduul Yes, I´m still not convinced by Camus reasons not to kill oneself. Although he was right in saying that the fundamental problem in philosophy is suicide.
figocooldude 1 year ago
Very, very good points. Amazing philosopher.
LifeOfDelusion 1 year ago 4
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Suicide is the problem of teens, who lack complete education, but just heard some bits and pieces from philosophy and start asking questions about life and its purpose. Such egocentrism shall pass as time goes forward and more knowledge is gained.
RBSM100 2 years ago
the elderly commit suicide in greater numbers than young people.
CharmanKaga 1 year ago 5
@CharmanKaga Statistically that is not true, youngsters unfortunately over number the elderly in their attempts to end life. Check the patients ages at the mental hospitals at the wards for suicidal patients.
RBSM100 1 year ago
@RBSM100 - Something tells me you didn't listen to the video at all. I'm quite surprised you even know who Schopenhauer is to be quiet honest.
UltraViolencex 1 year ago
@UltraViolencex something tells me that you cannot comprehend the written words... Your comment has no relation to the comment I wrote.
RBSM100 1 year ago
@RBSM100 - My comment is saying yours is full of retardation.
UltraViolencex 1 year ago
...respect. Look at Einstein's "Ideas and Opinions". They're mostly shallow and some are just plain ignorant.
He hastily judged Nietzsche as some sort of proto-nazi, which inspired Walter Kaufmann to dispell that myth.
Heidegger was a Nazi, some great writers today are member of backwards social movvements... What can I say. People are complex. Judge their work first, take their lives into account, but don't let it determine the value of their work for you.
bahramf 2 years ago
...with women affecting their work and their opinions of them in general (so, they made at least one hasty generalization). A lot has to be chalked up to the times they were living in as well. There were effectively no feminists.
Also, Nietzsche's sister was a Nazi. If part of the hasty generalization was made from her character, then it doesn't seem all that bad.
Also, keep in mind that being a genius in one respect (take Einstein on physics) does not make you a genius in every....
bahramf 2 years ago
To be fair, Nietzsche wrote some things (in the Gay Science, although I can't remember exactly where) which were preeminent to modern feminism about how women were (and arguably still are) basically just dressing, acting, etc... so as to appease men and get into relationships.
Aside from that, Schop. was just a bad ass. He's also advocating suicide in the excerpt being read out from one of his essays on pessimism.
In the end, some can be chalked up to their own personal problems...
bahramf 2 years ago
Oh yah, there's so much he did. His logic happened to be replaced as well as most of his physics, but his first principles of logic have remained.
Also, for a Schopenhauer and Nietzsche lover like me, he replaced the Platonic God/Form centered ontology with a more down to earth one.
He deserves no end to praise for that!
bahramf 2 years ago
...physics. I'm not sure about this, but he may have been one of the first people in the Western tradition to theorize on what we now call economics.
bahramf 2 years ago
Ok, I'm going to finally say it here on the innernets. For years I've heard about the lives and sayings of people like Plato, Democritus, Socrates... and reading about the history of science; and, is it just me, or was Aristotle an a-hole? I've not heard one good thing about him in my whole life. What did he do that makes him "great"?
interstitialofficial 2 years ago
In Ethics he came up with what is called 'virtue ethics' which gave rise to, at the very least, ethical egoism.
He had interesting views on economics which I don't know much about, but were expressed in his 'Politics'...
He wrote one of the classic texts on aesthetics called "Poetics". He also had a lot to do with early physics, geometry, etc... as well.
He is a lot like Plato, except he had been more focused with what matters to politics, law, economics, etc... without crazy meta...
bahramf 2 years ago
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OOOOOMMGGG, he is so ugly OMG my eyes!!!! hahahah
He looks how the little Goblin from the Gummi Bears xD
hahahhaha LOOOOL
so funny that pic =D
Peppergon 2 years ago
he is entirely correct.. to whose standards is the decision to put an "end" (if it is an end, or possibly the beginning) to your existance on this planet or illusion or dream or whatever it may be, regarded as morally wrong or unstable. Surely life isn't a sinch whatsover, as even the slightest mishap or flaw has the potential to posses the mind into going forth, and ending this.. so why judge from another body and mind that a man be mad for pursuing a mission of the such? Just a thought.
06livefast 2 years ago
the samurai had it right when they said 'The man who knows how to die, can best live'
atfatw 2 years ago
please die
greeniem 2 years ago
Excellent !!!
betsall 2 years ago
I can relate to this guy
RedArmyPunke 2 years ago 29
You cannot escape existence. Even when you die, your body continues to exist and is still a burden. It has to be cremated or buried.
There is nothing wrong with dying at the right time. The Samurais knew this. When the passion of life has faded or the purpose is complete, then maybe it is time.
jimbodune 2 years ago 28
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@jimbodune
"You cannot escape existence. Even when you die, your body continues to exist and is still a burden."
Citation?
TheGildedYak 1 year ago
@jimbodune "You" escape existence the moment you die, but "your body" continues existing in the *other sense* of the word as a physical object. I don't assume you intended to equivocate the two, but there's a significant unstated distinction there.
Skepdisc 1 year ago
@Skepdisc There is no "you" that is outside existence. "You" come about as a reaction to the world. No world, no "you".
danieljliversLXXXIX 1 year ago
@jimbodune "You cannot escape existence. Even when you die, your body continues to exist and is still a burden. It has to be cremated or buried." What do either of these processes accomplish that is not done by the decomposition of the body that is naturally inevitable after death? Are you suggesting that one will inhabit their dead body? What is your source for this infirmation?
gromby 10 months ago
@jimbodune Your body is not you. Your existence is contained within the totality of your consciousness. When you die, presumably, your consciousness dies with you. If existing is being conscious, dying is being removed from existence.
The existence of an object or body is irrelevant to the subject that no longer exists.
CrimsonToast 9 months ago
@CrimsonToast My statement is a reference to Jean-Paul Sartre's Being and Nothingness. Existence is based on being-in-itself, being-for-itself, and being-for-others. Maybe you can escape the being-for-itself and being-for-others in death but never being-in-itself.
jimbodune 9 months ago
nothing is certain, if man has one flaw it is that he deals in absolutes too much and thus creates brain patterns of absolutes and certainty being the focus as oppose to learning being the focus, in a nutshell, focus on the journey not the destination, the destination is non-applicable to your state as of current and never will be so why fathom it continuously??
skatermcshitson 2 years ago
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Garbage.
therobanata 2 years ago
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Hahaha! And they say videogames and porn is dangeros. lol
saltfan2 2 years ago
dangeros? dumbass
howthefagworks 2 years ago
What do u mean?
saltfan2 2 years ago
Nihilism plus Schopenhauer's views on suicide are a very deadly combination. Good thing that Nietzsche realized a solution to the emptiness of nihilism, because, quite frankly, Schopenhauer's arguments are quite compelling.
ka66 2 years ago 4
Could you explain to me what is, in your view, Nietzche's solution to nihilism? I don't know much about Nietzche at the moment
alukkkard 2 years ago 3
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Nietzsche is bunk.
Keithjustinburton 2 years ago
nietzsche's view was that you should create your own world and values and live by them with passion
NekroticKvlt 2 years ago
lol, Nihilism plus most things is a deadly combination :P
SpidersK1ss 2 years ago
Still, he did say The thought of suicide is a powerful solace: by means of it one gets through many a bad night.
figocooldude 1 year ago 3
Schopenhauer was a real pessimist, but he was a great thinker. I only condone suicide in cases where unendurable physiological pain and suffering cannot be reversed. I don't, however, believe that suicide should be deemed a crime. How practical is it for us to declare suicide a crime? It should be treated as a result of psychological sickness, not a crime. To punish or imprison a person who has attempted and failed to commit suicide is to display an antipathetic scorn for the sufferer.
bxjam85 2 years ago 7
'Schopenhauer was a real pessimist, BUT he was a great thinker.'
-> not "but", "therefore".
tedronaimoridin 1 year ago 3
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Germania has produced the greatest humans the world has known. The lying, thieving turd-people jews have never produced anyone who comes within a 1000 miles of Goethe, Schopenhauer, Kant, Nietzsche, Hegel, Luther, Liebniz, Porsche, Benz, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Brahms, Brothers Grimm, Die Brucke, Werner Von Braun, Gutenberg and the list is long. The jews were made out of the afterbirth of life by Satan after God had left the room to scratch himself
13point7billions 2 years ago
Don't forget Rammstein lol
alukkkard 2 years ago
I am in full agreement with you; I am a xenophile...but only for german culture and for the people whom you've just named. But have must you attack jews this way! My God!
MrPfund 2 years ago
Certainly, I agree with Jennifer. There are so many philosophical & historical figures to study: it is important to spend more time with those you are in sympathy with. I went off YT to learn more about Simone de Beauvoir, for example.
sylvestermeow 2 years ago
schopenhauer was very important, until WWI. Then, he fell out of favor. I listened to this, and to his opinions "Of Women." Why should we believe Schopenhauer, or anyone about anything we can not know for ourselves. I may be suicidal, but I'm not taking his word for it.
sylvestermeow 2 years ago
We don't have to take anybody's word on anything. We intake ideas and words and digest them according to our preference. The great thinkers and writers of history provide us a base with which to develop our own ideal, by giving ripened fruits to either take in and absorb or merely to pass out, disagreeable to our nature. For even to disagree wholly with a man's claim, have we not learned more of ourself to have it put to us?
jenniferahardin 2 years ago
my god, this blew my mind.
venom55520 2 years ago
just dont blow out your mind!
endgammer 2 years ago 4
hahaha, nice one :P
venom55520 2 years ago 3
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suicide is cheating.
you have engaged in this game to play, to cheat is useless. you will end up playing again. which you have..
why cheat?
scubajon88 2 years ago
that makes no sense. "you will"? no. nothing is certain.
lloplop 2 years ago
@scubajon88 "you have engaged in this game to play"
Nonsense. No one chooses to be brought into existence.
ratonweed 1 year ago
Schopenhauer didn't live what he wrote. He joked about suicide over dinner and was a highly sexed being. He enjoyed life quite a bit. And of course, he never did the deed himself.
hopkins4545 2 years ago 3
Physical pain is well known to overwhelm the senses until nothing is more important than getting rid of it. Emotional pain comes from being denied appropriate treatments for the physical pain. The inhumanity shown to allow the body to suffer until the mind s warped with anger and rage toward those responsible. Thoughts of murdering the perpetrator hound the victims of this abuse. Good men made to think bad things, restrained by their sense of justice and love for their fellow man.
SuperNewf1 2 years ago
While they fight over money, the victim, in pain, loses all. Sense of worth, pride, community, property, health, is gone when cast aside by society who cares not about you because you are now broken. Too much money to retrain they say, or we need to keep within budget they say. All the while you suffer in pain and poverty, wih the added stress of knowing they want you dead so they can avoid payment of compensation. I don't commit suicide because I won't give them the satisfaction.
SuperNewf1 2 years ago
Canada murders its injured workers who became disabled through no fault of their own. Canada takes the medical and legal rights away. They don't allow for justice, or relief of pain. Torture is to inflict pain on someone knowingly and repetively. Torture is causing mental torment. Torture is not allowing a person to get well and forced to suffer in pain and poverty. Chronic pain induced through accident, untreated because of government insurance fraud in Canada. Thousands dead or impoverished
SuperNewf1 2 years ago
Spot on observation.
aaronbergAPB 2 years ago
This is brilliant, apb
aaronbergAPB 2 years ago
you must die the lies in the mind.
be reborn on earth/heaven/mind/infinity...beauty love.....
yessssss
eskimojones23 2 years ago