Your referee for tonight- Shlomo. In the Red corner: Guy with big beard and black sack on his head. In the blue corner- guy with big beard and black pill box on his head. Lets get ready to RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLe! Such Fun!
@outsidelight1 lol you're such a disturbed individual... all you can do is go find Armenian videos on youtube and make childish comments? It's pretty clear your Mongolian roots are still running through your Turkish veins. Now go find a Muslim Turk bombing a building, thanks lol.
@makinbillion Well as they say where I am from (the UK) -Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander. You can dish it out in the nastiest possible way but you just can't cope with a few corrective facts or even some gentle ribbing in return. Luke 6:42
IT DOES NOT MATTER GREEKS, ARMENIANS,EGYPTIANS, ETC, WE AS CHRISTIANS SHOULD NOT LET IT HAPPEN, PERIOD. IT IS SUCH A SHAMEFUL SCENE, WHAT MESSAGE WE ARE SENDING TO OTHER RELIGIONS??? WE ARE CHRISTIANS!! WE ARE ABOUT LOVE AND RESPECT AND HUMBLE BEHAVIOR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! BUT AS THEY SAY DON'T BE MAD AT SINNER, BE MAD AT SIN. JESUS IS NOT HAPPY AT LOOKING SUCH A SCENE!
"animal Hordes" says someone??? Those in the red/blue vestments (armenians) are easily seen as attackers against the Greek Orthodox (in black),
in a brazen attack of violent monophysites (as always) against the Orthodox. Greek Orthodox monks keep "status quo" (look this term up) by being present as required at every non-Orthodox service within their Basilica. Armenians were trying by violence to change the "status quo" and take over more area of this church not their own.
If you don't believe in christianity , it is fine, but listen to what Jesus has said , even if he is not the son of God....man! he was some very smart dude.
very smart indeed...you could actually renew your life if you listen...and I mean really listen to what he has said...I dont care about who runs the church or churches in general but words of Jesus have stayed 2000 years...ask yourself why?
Its a FACT Jesus story is based on myth. Its disheartening to see Armenians, having a 14, 000 year history, falling for a Semitic mythology, in turn, based on Egyptian and Sumerian mythology.
Facts...Grigor was NOT an Armenian. Armenians DID have letters before Mestrop (it was burned by the church and Grigor). Our temples were torn down with information about our ancient past. Our libraries were burned as well.
There are so many flaws in Christianity. Even one of the most believers can't life according to the ways of god. It simply shows that no one knows the true meaning of faith.
In Meka there are millions of people at one small place and they never fight because they see each other almost as real brother’s en sisters.
@Honeydoole I guess you haven't studied history they have done worse than bombings. People make it seem like Church is so holy when it's not. The bombings you see are wars but this was suppose to be a time for Jesus and look, there is no war going on. you should study before making comments.
If you read the Bible Jesus was ready to fight and was angry that turn the other cheek is to make people submit it's crazy! Self preservation kicks in naturally to protect one's self. If you slap me I have a disease called "RETRIBUTION SELF PRESERVATION AUTOMATIC REFLEX" basically IF YOU HIT ME IMA HIT YOU BACK!
Every square foot of the Holy Sepulchre is highly politicized. Greeks and Armenian churchmen have been sparring with each other for generations in highly choreographed "flap-outs"- no big deal.
@dakotagerman1 We are orthodox and stay that way.. We armenians have history.. who are you. The bible is a fairy tale for western united states orthodox religion is straight old testament. if you are armenian why are you asking question about you..
The space is very tight and very regulated. In such quarters conflicts fueled by theological divisions can be explosives. I mean the Copts who control a stairway and some rafters fought the Eithopians who have been relegated to the the roof ... the Eithopians have built a tradionational monastery on the roof.
this is all just hilarious!!! such bigger problems in the world that shouldnt be solved by fighting, and here we are, two groups of people fighting over religious view differences... what a shame...
shame on those people who divide God.......... dosent matter who he/she is......... the world will come to an end soon bcoz of those idiots......... God dont like fight... he created us to and for love........... please dnt hurt God... spread love .... and try to love
lol if u think that spartans werent greeks then u are obviusly uneducated, i hope it was a comment that u didnt mean. I gave u these examples to show u how big where the regional feelings of greeks in ancient times(stronger than the ethnic), Spartans proved their greekness in the persian wars and in their will to be the protector of hellenism, never surrendering(the last battle, king Cleomenis fought with only 14 spartans against ptolemy)
Inscrition survived untill today in Delphoi by the king of sparta who defeated persians in Platea and planned to conquer asia(the 1st alexander as historians call him)
same inscription the athenians dedicated to the gods after the battle of marathon(one of the most important battles for western civilization, if greeks were defeated then we all would be persian now) which said:
The protectors(defenders) of Hellenism Athenians dedicate this for the victory against the rich-dressed Persians.
For me, any good foreigner is a greek and any bad greek is worse than a barbarian. If disputes ever occur among you, you will not resort to weapons but will solve them in peace. If need be, I shall arbitrate between you.
See Gods not as an autocratic despots, but as the common fathers of all and thus your conduct will be like the lifes of brothers within the same family. I, on my part, see you all as equal, whether you are white or dark skinned. To the best of my ability, I shall strive to do what I have promised. Keep as the symbol of love this oath which we have taken tonight with our libations"
if u didnt understand it, it spokes about ideals, and how alexander wanted to make his country a country not of ethnicities but of equal citizens who where part of hellenistic ideal, dont confuse it with hellas, hellenistic ideals are the ideals that the philosophers and scholars of ancient greece spread, one important part of it is that noone should fear god or feel weaker of him, this idea alexander embraced and believed in the end that he was god
but is kind of hypocritical u saying me that i didnt answer while u didnt answer anything, neither proved any macedonian alphabet and language nor macedonian independet culture nothing. I can accept some theories that could be true, but u must put more facts, theories are easy. There are greeks here believeing that white race started from here(like u) and other theories, dont be like them.
"When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?" His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy".
In the memories of prince Otto, Prince of Bavaria and first king of Greece, when he first time arrived in Athena and Peloponnesus, he said: "These are completely different people than we expected. We expected to find some ancient people, but we found only immigrants from Africa. "
Yes and you ancest from Alexander the Great's clan!!! The laugh of the century!!! The International Court should charge you with identity theft!!! Go on and put on some more statues of Alexander, Aristotle, Plato all over Skopje city in order to feel that you have an identity!!
Don't shit. Does that mean that there were not Greek people prior to 1821? Greek people are one of best preserved nations in Europe. Do you think you come from Alexander the great? HAHAHAHA
I see where you are going with this. Why is your name Macedonian, write Shiptar. They are Muslims as much as Catholic church is Christian.
And If you just any way happen to be Macedonian, then man, I pity you. No wonder why Shiptars overrun you. Enemy wants us to fight, simple conquer and divide. Instead of geopolitical alliance with your natural allies, you choose to spit on them. False pride kills.
Yah...Alexander conquered all the way to India, China etc. He left behind Greek literature, culture & art but he did't feel Greek??!! This type of logic comes from primitive humans whose cerebral cortex has not yet developed!!!!!
@CAKIMacedonian I can not believe your idiotic arguement...nobody said that people in India etc. speak Greek today...the Greeks did not stay there for generations to have such an infleunce...however, all archeological items found in the far east CLEARLY point to the fact that Alexander spoke Greek, thought Greek and his culture WAS Greek...my point is that the evidence says that he was Greek and NOTHING else!!!
OK...There are two options here. Either you are really stupid or historically CONFUSED. Here is a brief history lesson: In ancient times, Greece was made up of City States (eg. Athens) and Kingdoms (eg. Sparta, Macedon, Argos). These "units" at times fought against each other but definately overwhelmingly united when there was a common threat. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? YOU MAKE NO SENSE!!!
the word greece or greek is the latin name of Hellas, it started when Greki a city-state in peloponisos made a colony near rome. Greki where the first Hellenes that romans got in touch so they called many times the Hellenes Greci.
This is proved by roman documents and books, Greece was dominant name for Hellas among the western civilization cause they were influenced heavily by Latins.
im not in the mood to argue with u again - as u remember we exchanfed many messages but this led to nowhere-.
I know what i am talking about and choose my words carefully(i said macedonia was hellenistic not hellene).
there is no old macedonian word found till today-even the academy of science and history of fyrom accept this.
The word greki was used from 2nd centudy A.D. so u see there is a gap of centuries till slavs arrive or venetians rise(by the way venetians spoke latin)
every state in greece was a different kingdom, with different history. The thing that consisted Hellas was SAME RELIGION, SAME LANGUAGE, SAME TRADITIONS. Macedonians had all the above, and if u read herodotus arrian strabo u will see that they state macedonia is a part of hellenism.
It is clear that u have not read Iliad(shame on u, it was the bible for alexander), Hellenes took their name from their first king Hellinas who was son of Defkalion and they were the 1st ones to arrive in the area.
Furthermore The Hellenes were a pelasgian tribe, and pelasgian did not come from afrika, ur comment was very uneducated. Homer lists them with the Greek side against trojans - along with macedonian tribes-, the thracians were on the trojan side do u UNDERSTAND?
Ur obsesion with the theory that greeks came from afika is just stupid the least,
All the people came from afrika as there was the first man! Did macedonians land from the sky? Or God created them.
According to historical findings and writtings the macedonians were the last that came to the balkans along with spartans. That time they were called Dorians and later split to Macedonians and Lacedemonians(see the similarities between the name).
But there is not where the problem is. Instead of concetrating to the link between Macedonians and the rest of Hellenes u should concetrate to the link between u and ancient Macedonians, cause if it doesnt exist then this is pointless
From them,later were became,Anti,Venets (slavs) and Phoenicians...and from these three tribes,late were becamez; Macedonians(from Venets/Slavs), Russians,Moskovits, Ilyrians,Dardanians, Thesalyans...!
phoenicians came from pelasgians? Dont embarass ur nation and ur people with this.
Pelasgians were a native tribe in thessaly, athenians for example bragged that they are true pelasgians and therefore the truest hellenic nation. SHAME ON U FOR WRITTING SUCH LIES.
p.s. u(or fellow fyromian uneducated nationalists) must be confused the Helea, its Heleia and its not a pelasgian city nor in thessaly, its in peloponisus and its not a major nor stong city.
Yea,Helea in pelopones, we call him helea, for you maybe is heleia..but the point is that Henes were get their name from this city,and exactly by the Pelazgians...and yes,the city name was mean,Sunshine city!
Helea in peloponisos has nothing to so with pelasgians, the city was built later than the spartans arrival, the name itself has nothing to do with hellas, only in english there are similarities cause of the poor english grammar and pronaouncing.
Ηλεία - Ελλάς only the letter λ is similar, please read a book from a real historian
the word macedonia is greek, this is a fact that all sides aknowledge, we debate here if u r macedonians or slavs.
Macedonia(ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ) devires from the greek word ΜΑΚΟΣ in doric dialect(the one macedonians spoke) ΜΗΚΟΣ in attic dialect, which means long, high. the whole word Makedonia means highlanders.
Dont be mad, even Egypt(ΑΙΓΥΠΤΟΣ) is greek word but they do not claim stupid things like u.
u forgot slavomacedonians from 1990. lol i am actually older than ur country.
Ohhh so thebans are greek, dont say that, in few years u might say that u r ancestors of thebans using the fact that they fought and allied with persians, and later u can claim Hercules Hedepus or Epameinondas(the greatest and smartest general untill napoleon - not me the romans said it, the francs, the americans, hes military tactis are used still today)
and after thebans u can claim leonidas was skopian, hes real name was Leonidevski he spoke "macedonian" and althought sparta is full of greek scriptures u can say the bad greeks destroyed the skopian one
u can claim Jesus also, and take him as far as im concerned, christianity brought more blood, war and evil rather love, at least the pagans didnt kill for religion.
Yes Jesus will return and save all Skopians.
Michael Jackson is Skopian too, mihail Jackorov, he is dead now so u can start claiming him, isnt what u always do?
I saw once from a skopian that Vangelis(oscar winner composer-best of 20th century) is Fyromian, wait untill he dies and then claim him.
Did you ever ask yourself why Alexander the | was the first Macedonian who participated in the Olympic games(even if this was never confirmed)
Why he was the first...if Macedonians were helenes..Why his father wasn't participated on that games...or the other few macedonian generrations before him????
macedonians were isolated by the rest of greece due to geographical reasons first, 2nd spartans who were the leader of hellenism made sth like veto against macedonians cause they considered them as traitors, the reason for this was that macedonians surrendered to persians without a fight althought greek states sent troops and money to help them(that times macedonia was a very poor country)
later when alexander tried to participate spartans said that they were no longer hellenes
let me remind you,how many places ARG were exist in that time...Arg on Pelopones and Arg from Oresticon(Macedonia)...so it was not sure that Argeads were come from Pelopones, there is no evidence about!
again about arg, again u r victim of english language and vocabulary.
Αργεαδης(in ancient greek) was a known royal house of argos, whose members were exiled so they went elsewhere and they became kings like macedonia, magna grecia, cyraine
ok i will answear that(as i did with all question unlike u)
there were called macedonian wars cause it was only macedonians against romans(do u know who was the last king of macedonia Perseus-greek name- he lost the battle by his mistakes when he clearly was winning) in the last battle there were mainly thessalian, epirote and peloponisian soldiers cause macedonian army was destroyed in the previous.
for example the wars bewteen rome and pontus were named pontian wars, the war between arkadia and rome was named romanoarkadian wars, the war between epirus and rome was named Phyrric wars. All those were greek but none was named hellenik wars or greek wars. Understand? u cannote say Hellenik or Greek wars in macedonia case since there were no other greek states fighting except macedonia.
Instead thebes allied with Aetolia allied with romans and fought against macedonians and thebans.
correction aetolians and romans allied against macedonians and thebans.
It was what we call Devide and conquer by romans who made greek states each other and then when they were weak they attacked.
Like when Dimitrios Poliorkitis(greek first name and last name) entered sparta(spartan army and king Areus was in expedition crete) conquered the city but lost half his army to spartan women and children defending(phyrrus lost all his army by the same women earlier)
And that comes from a nation which speaks bulgarian LOL!
or u still believ u speak ancient macedonian language although there is no evidence for it.
Greek language basic letters were phjoenician, gosh open a book once in a while, the greek language is pelasgo-hellenic, only the basic latteres(i think 15 from 28) were phoenician,
u clearly need to read more unbiased books. Ancient greece is what we call ancient hellas or hellenistic times.
its the period of history when hellenes became dominant in culture, in language, in power, in ideas etch.
ancient greece or hellenism starts from the minoan era aproxemetly in 2700B.C.(in their rise) and it ends with the death of the last great greek as romans called her Hypatia 415 A.D. because she said earth is round and revolves around the sun(christians didnt allow this)
It starts again in 608 A.D. when emperor Herakleios made byzantine empire more hellenistic(oficial language greek, greek ideals etch.)although byzantine empire was not so much greek but hellenistik, it ended in 1453 when constantinopole fall.
but i got a similar question for u, why in the greek wars(greek major civil war sparta vs athens) which is known as CIVIL war not only from all the historians and scholars(including urs) Macedonians not only took part but they were with the spartan side in what spartans called "sacred peloponisian and hellenik alliance).
The illyrians and thracian(except greek colonies and parts which were with athens) didnt took part
anyways i tired cause i dont see any serius argument from ur side.
TO MAKE IT CLEAR
I am not nationalist, i love history(i study history) i know there are many black pages in greek history that greeks dont know(cause of the church influence in greece) i hate all nationalists greeks especially, but also i know when i am right.
im basing my opinions in facts and the archaiological discoverys till now, maybe in the future we will find that will change my mind but untill now i am right
since they betrayed hellenistic ideals(freedom) and their language although still greek had many illyrian infuences, greeks considered illyrians very barbaric ones.
Same thing happened with thebans, whom spartans sacked their city and declared them as no longer hellenes, after epanmeinondas defeated spartans they were accepted back in the olympic games.
Alexander I participated in the games, as Herodotus, Pausanias, Arrian wrote. if u deny it then u deny that alexander existed cause they are the only source for alexander.
For the history Alexander managed to compete in olympics when he proved to the judges that he is hellene(from argos thats why they were called argead)
Phillip II also participated in olympics and we still have inscription that talk about him and his victory(1st in stadion)
there was no Greece, Greece and Hellas have a huge difference between them.
Macedonia for sure was not greek, it was Hellenik,
to give u an idea
Greece is the greek mainland from peloponisus till Attica
Hellas is consisted by Greece, Crete, Cyprus, Sicyly, Macedonia, Epirus, Thrace(the greek part), Pontus, Asia Minor(or else Ionia-from Ionia comes the word Yunan), Marseille.
this was Hellas in ancient times, sth many greeks and foreigners confuse.
about the name alexander The earliest attested record of the name is the Mycenaean Greek of the feminine Alexandra, written in Linear B(its in museums in greece and berlin) dated on 1500-1300 B.C.
-although Macedon was considered a "barbaric" state by a minority of Greek tribesmen, whose territories were threatened by its expansion. After a court of Elean hellanodikai determined his claim to be true, he was permitted to participate in the Olympic Games in 504 BC-
Athens is a city, how undeducated are u, the area where athens,pireus is, is called Attica.
Sparta is a city the area where the spartans lived is called Lakedemonia, hence that we never find spartans call themselfs as spartans but they always were identified as lakedemonian or lakonian.
Macedonia is the area, pella is the city, Thessaly is the area Pharae is the city, Crete is the area Knossos is the city,
as proved by linear A and linear B(search it, at least u will learn sth), greek or the archaic language as u call it was the same, with different letters, later greeks borrowed letters from phoenicians, and added more from their old aplhabet to form the first homeric alphabet. Its proved tha there are very few similarities in greek and archaic words, as far as macedonian we never found any evidence of any ancient macedonian language nowhere.
Hellada never a geographical term, how many times do i have to tell u.
The identification of Hellas and Hellenes is written in ancient Olympia tombs as the rules of Olympic games!!!! u know the one that macedonians took part and their names are written in Olympia, u might go and see if u dont believe.
"In Olympic games all Hellenes are allowed to take part, People with same blood, same language, same traditions and most importantly same religion"
Hellas was wherever there was Hellenism.
"Hellas is an idea with no borders, no restrictions, its the idea of reaserching the ultimate happiness, the complete freedom, Hellas is the dream of life"
Yes an idea...and you based Alexander identity on idea???And not on his kingdom,i mean and not on his place of origin???
The main reason,why he was called Macedon was,that he was Macedon!
And about Olympic games..Why Alexander the | was the first Macedonian who participated on that games...why his father didn't play,or his grand father..??? Did they were helenes or not???
Why u ask the same questions again and again? i ansewred them already, Macedonians and Thebans were banned from the olympic games because of their afficialation with Persians, But could take part in other festivals like Pythia and Isthmia.
U asked me what is Hellas and i answeared u with plato and aristotle(the teacher of alexander), if u think they are stupid then u dont see beyond ur little finger,
"they are distrusted by all the Peloponnesians;they are hated by most of the Hellenes"
(Isocrates, To Philip 5. 48)
"After this Lysander(Spartan general) sailed into Piraeus, the exiles returned, and the Peloponnesians with great enthusiasm began to tear down the walls to the music of flute-girls, thinking that that day was the beginning of freedom for Hellas."
The answear is all of them, we can see when Athens was in hegemony, it was separate from other greeks, for example Lysander tear down the walls of athens THINKING IT WAS THE BEGINING FOR FREEDOM FOR HELLAS.
Same happened vice versa when athenians were fighting spartans for freedom of hellas.Same with Macedonians, The belief was that all hellenik cities should be free cause thats what hellas meant freedom, thats why although spartans won they didnt expand geographical or conquered any regions.
2nd i dont base anyones identity on an idea. Plato, Aristotle did, do if u think that they r crazy, its ur opinion. If u think that the greatest minds of western civilization(along with the greatest one Socrates) didnt know what they wrote, or they wrote stupidities, then sth is wrong with u and i suggest start reading.
my poor theory is exacly like urs, this is what i wanted u to understand, ur theories are, im not saying they are false cause everything is possible but yet u havent prove it
i suggest u keep digging untill u find sth purely macedonian with no hellenistic signs in it(i dont think this will ever happen, but u can still dream and hope)
Also,there is one other thing...we know that in the past years were find some ancient ''greek'' inscriptions in Trachia...and like we know they were not greeks???
You thought that my last comments were childish didnt u? well thats what i think when ever i see ur comments, in fact mines have more chances of being true rather urs
Anyway lets get serius now.
Try to read history with an objective mind. Don't let your prejudices cloud your mind and judgement. Otherwise you can never grow as an individual.
No,like Herodot wrote,Helenes were Ethiopian tribe,who lived in the middle egypt, and from there,came into Arabian Peninsula and from there,in to little Pelazgians city Helea!
Thalia Dragonas, secretary general of the Greek Ministry of Education and university professor from Athens, nowadays faces an avalanche of attacks for stating Greek identity was created in the 19th century.
what is ur problem with greece? first prove ur identity and then focus to other nations. U r slav, is dragonas statement gona make u greek macedonian? NO
"we are slavs, we have no connection to alexander the great and ancient macedonians we came here in 6th century AD"
We have memoirs andf letters of ur own "macedonians" DELCHEV ETCH. WHO are recognised by ur goverment as national heroes where they clearly state they are bulgarians! with signature and recognised as authentic by Fyroms commite and govermend.
I think u dont understand english and just copy paste links u see in fyrom nationalist websites, while i do my own research i study archaiology and hate nationalist thought greeks, albanians, turks, skopians, they are all cancer needed to remove from balkans.
Ur country is ruled by nationalists,instead changing that in order to make ur life better, u folloow them and jump from the cliff.
sorry man, mankind started from afrika, believe it or not is sth that all archaiologists, biologists, etch. agree (of all nationalities) so u r saying that pelasgians were in balkans during the evolution of man?
so ALL scientists(from all the countries mine, urs) are wrong but yet u r right?
As the word Hellas(Ελλάς) and Hellene (Έλληνας ion Attic Έλλανας in Dorian) we find it in Homers Iliad original text(if u have red it) as a pelasgian tribe from Thessaly. Later the word Hellene was used to describe all the people who lived in the same area, spoke the same language, had the same religion and traditions pretty much what consists an ethnicity(Ethnicity or Ethnos come from the greek word Έθιμο hich means tradiotion)
If u have read any greek history, u would know that greek city-states never expanded their territories, they would conquer another state and put a favourable leader towards them.
Before Philip II there weren't any idea of unification of Hellas(with the exception of Jason of Pharae who was murdered just b4 campaigning to persia and opened the door for Philip to gain the Hegemony of Hellas)
In Byzantine times the word Hellene and Hellas was banned cause it became synonimum to pagan, many hellenes were killed and temples destroyed(as we know christianity brought dark ages and set the owrld 1000 years back), the Hellenes converted to christianity were called Greeks, Grekoi or Romans. This was untill emperor Herakleios who made the empire more Hellenistic and ended by the last emperor Konstantinos Palaiologos with his speech were he said "Let us die like true Hellenes"
He shouted this despite the fact that there were more greeks fighting with ottoman side rather with byzantines.
So this thing about the term greece or Hellas is a lie, and i dont understand why u wrote it without doing any reaserch first, well thats what happens when u just copy-paste.
Greeks were not a unified nation even in the persian wars, were thebans allied with persians(with the promise that they would gain hegemony of the other states), does this mean thebans were not greeks? NO.
for the record, the spartans to punish their treason sacked their city.
later in thermopylae leonidas let the greek forces go except thebans cause he was afraid they would betray again. He was right, thebans with the first chance deserted to persians in the final day.
man i live in Greece .. I see Churches built over Ancient Greek Temples... this IS a crime! I see priests with BMW and Mercedes while families dont have nothing to eat! I see religius ppl scare weak minded ppl with religius bullshit! those are crimes and there're many many more... those doesnt say anything to you?
You dont know nothing about history man? Those books and not only, existed thousand years before your relegion, and they destroyed them or kept them in secret! Think before talk or do a small research before saying anything!
you are pridefull to say "the one true religion" ... your religion has the most crimes in the human history .... u killed ppl, you destroyed books, temple, knowledge! this is the one true religion? get a life , f@cking sheep!
A NEW FIGHT JUST HAPPENED YESTERDAY! ANYONE HEARD??
dickran2142battle 2 months ago
@Arthur85is well said champ brotherhood between armenia and greece,
and unite against us turks, cheers. (; lol
erhan2brother 4 months ago
from a greek !....we are brothers! dont pay attention to the Monks! always UNITED!!
tipesreee 4 months ago 3
ortodogs
Manzur099 4 months ago
Your referee for tonight- Shlomo. In the Red corner: Guy with big beard and black sack on his head. In the blue corner- guy with big beard and black pill box on his head. Lets get ready to RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLe! Such Fun!
outsidelight1 5 months ago
@outsidelight1 lol you're such a disturbed individual... all you can do is go find Armenian videos on youtube and make childish comments? It's pretty clear your Mongolian roots are still running through your Turkish veins. Now go find a Muslim Turk bombing a building, thanks lol.
makinbillion 5 months ago
@makinbillion Well as they say where I am from (the UK) -Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander. You can dish it out in the nastiest possible way but you just can't cope with a few corrective facts or even some gentle ribbing in return. Luke 6:42
outsidelight1 5 months ago
IT DOES NOT MATTER GREEKS, ARMENIANS,EGYPTIANS, ETC, WE AS CHRISTIANS SHOULD NOT LET IT HAPPEN, PERIOD. IT IS SUCH A SHAMEFUL SCENE, WHAT MESSAGE WE ARE SENDING TO OTHER RELIGIONS??? WE ARE CHRISTIANS!! WE ARE ABOUT LOVE AND RESPECT AND HUMBLE BEHAVIOR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! BUT AS THEY SAY DON'T BE MAD AT SINNER, BE MAD AT SIN. JESUS IS NOT HAPPY AT LOOKING SUCH A SCENE!
UMBUBA 6 months ago
"animal Hordes" says someone??? Those in the red/blue vestments (armenians) are easily seen as attackers against the Greek Orthodox (in black),
in a brazen attack of violent monophysites (as always) against the Orthodox. Greek Orthodox monks keep "status quo" (look this term up) by being present as required at every non-Orthodox service within their Basilica. Armenians were trying by violence to change the "status quo" and take over more area of this church not their own.
JudithMatta 6 months ago
If you don't believe in christianity , it is fine, but listen to what Jesus has said , even if he is not the son of God....man! he was some very smart dude.
very smart indeed...you could actually renew your life if you listen...and I mean really listen to what he has said...I dont care about who runs the church or churches in general but words of Jesus have stayed 2000 years...ask yourself why?
friendlyfitters 6 months ago
Both sides probably cried genocide after the fight wsa over, claiming they are completely innocent and were viciously attacked.
Two animal hordes going head to head.
yeniceri1015 7 months ago
really shameful to this religion
Trix2687 8 months ago
Its a FACT Jesus story is based on myth. Its disheartening to see Armenians, having a 14, 000 year history, falling for a Semitic mythology, in turn, based on Egyptian and Sumerian mythology.
Facts...Grigor was NOT an Armenian. Armenians DID have letters before Mestrop (it was burned by the church and Grigor). Our temples were torn down with information about our ancient past. Our libraries were burned as well.
Wake up people. All this is myth.
ararmaya 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I was there with my school
you can see the girls of my school on upper right hand side at 1:40
I was on the other side with the boys
dickran2142battle 11 months ago
Comment removed
dickran2142battle 11 months ago
False Religious Teachings. Jesus spoke of this. This is no suprise.
MegaDejai 11 months ago
There are so many flaws in Christianity. Even one of the most believers can't life according to the ways of god. It simply shows that no one knows the true meaning of faith.
In Meka there are millions of people at one small place and they never fight because they see each other almost as real brother’s en sisters.
07084935 11 months ago
Long live Armenia from Greece. FUCK TURKEY
DieserBenuterIstCool 11 months ago
@DieserBenuterIstCool
fuck you.Not Greece but you.
Selam to Turkey from Azerbaijan
crrtpf 10 months ago
@crrtpf
FUCK YOU TOO
DieserBenuterIstCool 10 months ago
@Honeydoole I guess you haven't studied history they have done worse than bombings. People make it seem like Church is so holy when it's not. The bombings you see are wars but this was suppose to be a time for Jesus and look, there is no war going on. you should study before making comments.
rahim4411 1 year ago
If you read the Bible Jesus was ready to fight and was angry that turn the other cheek is to make people submit it's crazy! Self preservation kicks in naturally to protect one's self. If you slap me I have a disease called "RETRIBUTION SELF PRESERVATION AUTOMATIC REFLEX" basically IF YOU HIT ME IMA HIT YOU BACK!
rahim4411 1 year ago
Only the common enemy of both Armenians and Greeks will enjoy and benefit of this shameful act. I hope it was worth it.
speckfire01 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I have read all the comments.
I must say you all, that
ORthodox churches are privatized, are not universal.
orthodox churches are nationalist churches, and once they became so, i think God has nothing to do with this church anymore
farko17 1 year ago
I have read all the comments.
I must say you all, that
ORthodox churches are privatized, are not universal.
orthodox churches are nationalist churches, and once they became so, i think Gid has nothing to do with this church anymore
farko17 1 year ago
This is a shame!Why do they fight at a place catholics consider as holy?This is disrespectful!
Hans021220 1 year ago
in 1:18 on the bottom left corner youll see some white and black wearing boys one of them is me I WAS THERE the fight was so intense
dickran2142battle 1 year ago
You for got the shwarma!?!?!?! That is a SIN! Now we keeel you!
JonnoThomas 1 year ago
Every square foot of the Holy Sepulchre is highly politicized. Greeks and Armenian churchmen have been sparring with each other for generations in highly choreographed "flap-outs"- no big deal.
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
Daaamn they act like streetfighters in the Holy church i shame that i'm Armenian when i see this
kutkinderen 1 year ago
i really cant believe that our priests are brawling like hooligans in a Holy place...
What example does this show???
PSAVA74 1 year ago
@dakotagerman1 We are orthodox and stay that way.. We armenians have history.. who are you. The bible is a fairy tale for western united states orthodox religion is straight old testament. if you are armenian why are you asking question about you..
MarineViP818 1 year ago
this fight got into discovery channel riot rampage, same as football riot!!
thats nasty, who the tot those virgin priest could throw a punch
amirul1978x 1 year ago
wir armenier und grichen sind für immer geschwister
ArMeNiErArAmAeR 1 year ago
@PaataUSA gogmagog ?
j400wel 1 year ago
a lil religious scuffle , a holy one 2- punch , a sacred kick in za carotchie. - oof!
civ1 1 year ago
Die Armenier und die Griechen sind brüder für immer
Viva Armenia, Viva Griechenland
4444ARTHUR 1 year ago
The space is very tight and very regulated. In such quarters conflicts fueled by theological divisions can be explosives. I mean the Copts who control a stairway and some rafters fought the Eithopians who have been relegated to the the roof ... the Eithopians have built a tradionational monastery on the roof.
asinimali 1 year ago
Armenians love the Greeks! And THIS VIDEO misunderstandings
Sati675 1 year ago
this is all just hilarious!!! such bigger problems in the world that shouldnt be solved by fighting, and here we are, two groups of people fighting over religious view differences... what a shame...
grk2010 1 year ago
it took too long for the STUPID fight to start
155DJJ 1 year ago
shame on those people who divide God.......... dosent matter who he/she is......... the world will come to an end soon bcoz of those idiots......... God dont like fight... he created us to and for love........... please dnt hurt God... spread love .... and try to love
jassi1007 1 year ago
armenians can never amount to the level of dominance the Greeks had in the world. They are just gypsies who think they're Greek.
crkid100 1 year ago
@crkid100 I feel sorry for you man, do some research about Armenians before you make ignorant comments, it only makes you look stupid.
SirSneeky1 1 year ago
Amen
vuurwerktomw 1 year ago
Armenians is the first qristians!!!!!!!!!!!!
MoscowBoyArmenia 1 year ago 2
@MoscowBoyArmenia the jews who followed jesus were the first christians...brother
bretadounitedfc 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MAKE-mother
DON- dion,the main god
IJA - land
You see,Macedonia is not ''your'' name!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Typical answer,when you missed arguments!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
lol if u think that spartans werent greeks then u are obviusly uneducated, i hope it was a comment that u didnt mean. I gave u these examples to show u how big where the regional feelings of greeks in ancient times(stronger than the ethnic), Spartans proved their greekness in the persian wars and in their will to be the protector of hellenism, never surrendering(the last battle, king Cleomenis fought with only 14 spartans against ptolemy)
dimalex8 2 years ago
ΕΛΛΑΝΩΝ ΑΡΧΑΓΟΣ, ΕΠΕΙ ΣΤΡΑΤΟΝ ΩΛΕΣΑ ΜΗΔΩΝ
ΠΑΥΣΑΝΙΑΣ ΦΟΙΒΩ ΜΝΑΜ΄ ΑΝΕΘΗΚΑ ΤΟΔΕ - ΠΑΥΣΑΝΙΑΣ
Inscrition survived untill today in Delphoi by the king of sparta who defeated persians in Platea and planned to conquer asia(the 1st alexander as historians call him)
dimalex8 2 years ago
It means:
Leader of Hellenes for the victory against the persian army, i offer this to god of Hellenes Phoebus(Apollo), Pausanias.
dimalex8 2 years ago
same inscription the athenians dedicated to the gods after the battle of marathon(one of the most important battles for western civilization, if greeks were defeated then we all would be persian now) which said:
The protectors(defenders) of Hellenism Athenians dedicate this for the victory against the rich-dressed Persians.
dimalex8 2 years ago
For me, any good foreigner is a greek and any bad greek is worse than a barbarian. If disputes ever occur among you, you will not resort to weapons but will solve them in peace. If need be, I shall arbitrate between you.
dimalex8 2 years ago
See Gods not as an autocratic despots, but as the common fathers of all and thus your conduct will be like the lifes of brothers within the same family. I, on my part, see you all as equal, whether you are white or dark skinned. To the best of my ability, I shall strive to do what I have promised. Keep as the symbol of love this oath which we have taken tonight with our libations"
Opis, 324 B.C.
Alexander The Great Oath's
dimalex8 2 years ago
if u didnt understand it, it spokes about ideals, and how alexander wanted to make his country a country not of ethnicities but of equal citizens who where part of hellenistic ideal, dont confuse it with hellas, hellenistic ideals are the ideals that the philosophers and scholars of ancient greece spread, one important part of it is that noone should fear god or feel weaker of him, this idea alexander embraced and believed in the end that he was god
dimalex8 2 years ago
but is kind of hypocritical u saying me that i didnt answer while u didnt answer anything, neither proved any macedonian alphabet and language nor macedonian independet culture nothing. I can accept some theories that could be true, but u must put more facts, theories are easy. There are greeks here believeing that white race started from here(like u) and other theories, dont be like them.
dimalex8 2 years ago
You wll see the ancent Macedonan words and alphabet in my videos..soon!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
THE ARMENIA IT,S SAYS DON,T FIGHT WITh police, fuvck police
guarmgu 2 years ago
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"When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?" His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy".
King Otto, Zaharias Papantoniou
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In the memories of prince Otto, Prince of Bavaria and first king of Greece, when he first time arrived in Athena and Peloponnesus, he said: "These are completely different people than we expected. We expected to find some ancient people, but we found only immigrants from Africa. "
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
This is what religion causes !!!
steveN111333 2 years ago
haha suck balls stupid retarded dpreessed and bored armenians and greeks. hahaha go fuck each other up lol
critikush 2 years ago
What ancient greek,asshole,Greece exist from 1821!Get back the rest of our Macedonian land!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
that is right ma mate greeks dont have any proper history!!!!!
FuLLiTurk 2 years ago
Yes and you ancest from Alexander the Great's clan!!! The laugh of the century!!! The International Court should charge you with identity theft!!! Go on and put on some more statues of Alexander, Aristotle, Plato all over Skopje city in order to feel that you have an identity!!
Logos106 2 years ago
Don't shit. Does that mean that there were not Greek people prior to 1821? Greek people are one of best preserved nations in Europe. Do you think you come from Alexander the great? HAHAHAHA
Htogrom 2 years ago
Wasn't the majority in Athens in 1821 were the muslims...???Wasnt???
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
I see where you are going with this. Why is your name Macedonian, write Shiptar. They are Muslims as much as Catholic church is Christian.
And If you just any way happen to be Macedonian, then man, I pity you. No wonder why Shiptars overrun you. Enemy wants us to fight, simple conquer and divide. Instead of geopolitical alliance with your natural allies, you choose to spit on them. False pride kills.
Htogrom 2 years ago
Read history and than come to debate,with facts!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Yah...Alexander conquered all the way to India, China etc. He left behind Greek literature, culture & art but he did't feel Greek??!! This type of logic comes from primitive humans whose cerebral cortex has not yet developed!!!!!
Loukas1964 2 years ago
YEa..like we can see...all people from here till india,speak Greek language and use greek culture???HA hah ha!!!!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
@CAKIMacedonian I can not believe your idiotic arguement...nobody said that people in India etc. speak Greek today...the Greeks did not stay there for generations to have such an infleunce...however, all archeological items found in the far east CLEARLY point to the fact that Alexander spoke Greek, thought Greek and his culture WAS Greek...my point is that the evidence says that he was Greek and NOTHING else!!!
Loukas1964 2 years ago
And...like we know he was king of Macedonia..
on which base do you call him greek???
Macedonia was a kingdom but what was greece than????
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
OK...There are two options here. Either you are really stupid or historically CONFUSED. Here is a brief history lesson: In ancient times, Greece was made up of City States (eg. Athens) and Kingdoms (eg. Sparta, Macedon, Argos). These "units" at times fought against each other but definately overwhelmingly united when there was a common threat. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? YOU MAKE NO SENSE!!!
Loukas1964 2 years ago
The point is that Greece was not exist in the ancient times! This word was invented in 1830 by the german historian Gustav Droysen!
Tell when Macedonia was win against Paeonian,
did Athena or Theba extended their teritories, and why not???
Stop lie man,you use this word today to show that all history from today modern country belong to you!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
WHAT A BUNCH OF BS!!!!
Loukas1964 2 years ago
the word greece or greek is the latin name of Hellas, it started when Greki a city-state in peloponisos made a colony near rome. Greki where the first Hellenes that romans got in touch so they called many times the Hellenes Greci.
This is proved by roman documents and books, Greece was dominant name for Hellas among the western civilization cause they were influenced heavily by Latins.
dimalex8 2 years ago
So,according these facts,Macedonia was different kingdom,with different history,like i was state before!
And the word Helene,come from the Pelazgian city Helea,were the helenes,settled,when they were come from africa!
The word Greki,is Venetian or Slavic word, with one word,old Macedonian word, which was mean,''foreigners"!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
im not in the mood to argue with u again - as u remember we exchanfed many messages but this led to nowhere-.
I know what i am talking about and choose my words carefully(i said macedonia was hellenistic not hellene).
there is no old macedonian word found till today-even the academy of science and history of fyrom accept this.
The word greki was used from 2nd centudy A.D. so u see there is a gap of centuries till slavs arrive or venetians rise(by the way venetians spoke latin)
dimalex8 2 years ago
every state in greece was a different kingdom, with different history. The thing that consisted Hellas was SAME RELIGION, SAME LANGUAGE, SAME TRADITIONS. Macedonians had all the above, and if u read herodotus arrian strabo u will see that they state macedonia is a part of hellenism.
It is clear that u have not read Iliad(shame on u, it was the bible for alexander), Hellenes took their name from their first king Hellinas who was son of Defkalion and they were the 1st ones to arrive in the area.
dimalex8 2 years ago
Furthermore The Hellenes were a pelasgian tribe, and pelasgian did not come from afrika, ur comment was very uneducated. Homer lists them with the Greek side against trojans - along with macedonian tribes-, the thracians were on the trojan side do u UNDERSTAND?
Ur obsesion with the theory that greeks came from afika is just stupid the least,
All the people came from afrika as there was the first man! Did macedonians land from the sky? Or God created them.
dimalex8 2 years ago
According to historical findings and writtings the macedonians were the last that came to the balkans along with spartans. That time they were called Dorians and later split to Macedonians and Lacedemonians(see the similarities between the name).
But there is not where the problem is. Instead of concetrating to the link between Macedonians and the rest of Hellenes u should concetrate to the link between u and ancient Macedonians, cause if it doesnt exist then this is pointless
dimalex8 2 years ago
The first Balkanian tribe were Pelazgians!
From them,later were became,Anti,Venets (slavs) and Phoenicians...and from these three tribes,late were becamez; Macedonians(from Venets/Slavs), Russians,Moskovits, Ilyrians,Dardanians, Thesalyans...!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
phoenicians came from pelasgians? Dont embarass ur nation and ur people with this.
Pelasgians were a native tribe in thessaly, athenians for example bragged that they are true pelasgians and therefore the truest hellenic nation. SHAME ON U FOR WRITTING SUCH LIES.
dimalex8 2 years ago
p.s. u(or fellow fyromian uneducated nationalists) must be confused the Helea, its Heleia and its not a pelasgian city nor in thessaly, its in peloponisus and its not a major nor stong city.
Heleia means sun Ηλεία(the city) - Ήλιος (sun)
dimalex8 2 years ago
Yea,Helea in pelopones, we call him helea, for you maybe is heleia..but the point is that Henes were get their name from this city,and exactly by the Pelazgians...and yes,the city name was mean,Sunshine city!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Helea in peloponisos has nothing to so with pelasgians, the city was built later than the spartans arrival, the name itself has nothing to do with hellas, only in english there are similarities cause of the poor english grammar and pronaouncing.
Ηλεία - Ελλάς only the letter λ is similar, please read a book from a real historian
dimalex8 2 years ago
And pls tell me when did you invent the word greek -macedonian???
Or you ll tell me that this is ancient Macedonian word???
Do you have maybe greek spartans,greek thebans...hhhh greek macedonians...hhh from 1930!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
the word macedonia is greek, this is a fact that all sides aknowledge, we debate here if u r macedonians or slavs.
Macedonia(ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ) devires from the greek word ΜΑΚΟΣ in doric dialect(the one macedonians spoke) ΜΗΚΟΣ in attic dialect, which means long, high. the whole word Makedonia means highlanders.
Dont be mad, even Egypt(ΑΙΓΥΠΤΟΣ) is greek word but they do not claim stupid things like u.
dimalex8 2 years ago
u forgot slavomacedonians from 1990. lol i am actually older than ur country.
Ohhh so thebans are greek, dont say that, in few years u might say that u r ancestors of thebans using the fact that they fought and allied with persians, and later u can claim Hercules Hedepus or Epameinondas(the greatest and smartest general untill napoleon - not me the romans said it, the francs, the americans, hes military tactis are used still today)
dimalex8 2 years ago
and after thebans u can claim leonidas was skopian, hes real name was Leonidevski he spoke "macedonian" and althought sparta is full of greek scriptures u can say the bad greeks destroyed the skopian one
dimalex8 2 years ago
u can claim Jesus also, and take him as far as im concerned, christianity brought more blood, war and evil rather love, at least the pagans didnt kill for religion.
Yes Jesus will return and save all Skopians.
Michael Jackson is Skopian too, mihail Jackorov, he is dead now so u can start claiming him, isnt what u always do?
I saw once from a skopian that Vangelis(oscar winner composer-best of 20th century) is Fyromian, wait untill he dies and then claim him.
dimalex8 2 years ago
hhh...what kind of poor theory you has use!
Did someone must have SKI to be Macedonian???So according your ''big'' theory Alexander should be AlexandriDIS, AlexandrOS
hhhh...So,if Alexander was AlexandrOS Lithuanians can also claim that he is Lithuanian!?
hhhh!!!Open your closed mind!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
read my last comment again and agian till u understand it.
the is no problem for u with the name, the problem is that b4 alexander there were hundrendrs of men lived in greece i give u some
Alexander of Pharae - thessaly
Alexander the stoic - athenian
alexander lytaiou - syracuses
alexander king of thessaly
alexander king of epirus
alexander ruler of neapolis
the name us we know is greek, so at least u might have the honesty to spell it right
dimalex8 2 years ago
Did you ever ask yourself why Alexander the | was the first Macedonian who participated in the Olympic games(even if this was never confirmed)
Why he was the first...if Macedonians were helenes..Why his father wasn't participated on that games...or the other few macedonian generrations before him????
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
macedonians were isolated by the rest of greece due to geographical reasons first, 2nd spartans who were the leader of hellenism made sth like veto against macedonians cause they considered them as traitors, the reason for this was that macedonians surrendered to persians without a fight althought greek states sent troops and money to help them(that times macedonia was a very poor country)
later when alexander tried to participate spartans said that they were no longer hellenes
dimalex8 2 years ago
Macedonians were isolated????ahhhaaahhh
Only Macedonians???
So,Macedonians were isolated few centuries ago!
Ok..hhhh
Did you learn this in school man????
Macedonians were isolated...by Spartans?!?!?LOL
I think that better theory for this are statements of the Demosthen..and the rest of Helenes
who were ''unhappy to participate together on the games with BArbarians!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
LOL LOL LOL
little boy, in 5th century bc macedonians were GEOGRAPHICLY ISOLATED
GEOGRAPHICLY. do u know what it means
U forget Isocrates the Athenian who opposed Demosthen
U forget also that Demosthen said exacly the same things for Spartans, Thebans and Megarians.
so u believe demosthen, then noone is hellene except athenians lol
dimalex8 2 years ago
Also about that,Alexander origin comes from ARG,
let me remind you,how many places ARG were exist in that time...Arg on Pelopones and Arg from Oresticon(Macedonia)...so it was not sure that Argeads were come from Pelopones, there is no evidence about!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
again about arg, again u r victim of english language and vocabulary.
Αργεαδης(in ancient greek) was a known royal house of argos, whose members were exiled so they went elsewhere and they became kings like macedonia, magna grecia, cyraine
dimalex8 2 years ago
No,man,we have a different views on the history, that is the truth!
So,why the last two or three wars between Macedonia and Roma were called First Macedonians,Second andThird Macedonian- Roman wars???
And the other question...Why that people were identified them self as Macedonians... what the word Macedonian was describe on their personality???
And you still didn't answer me..What was ancient greece????
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
ok i will answear that(as i did with all question unlike u)
there were called macedonian wars cause it was only macedonians against romans(do u know who was the last king of macedonia Perseus-greek name- he lost the battle by his mistakes when he clearly was winning) in the last battle there were mainly thessalian, epirote and peloponisian soldiers cause macedonian army was destroyed in the previous.
dimalex8 2 years ago
for example the wars bewteen rome and pontus were named pontian wars, the war between arkadia and rome was named romanoarkadian wars, the war between epirus and rome was named Phyrric wars. All those were greek but none was named hellenik wars or greek wars. Understand? u cannote say Hellenik or Greek wars in macedonia case since there were no other greek states fighting except macedonia.
Instead thebes allied with Aetolia allied with romans and fought against macedonians and thebans.
dimalex8 2 years ago
correction aetolians and romans allied against macedonians and thebans.
It was what we call Devide and conquer by romans who made greek states each other and then when they were weak they attacked.
Like when Dimitrios Poliorkitis(greek first name and last name) entered sparta(spartan army and king Areus was in expedition crete) conquered the city but lost half his army to spartan women and children defending(phyrrus lost all his army by the same women earlier)
dimalex8 2 years ago
What greek language man..your language was phoenician!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
And that comes from a nation which speaks bulgarian LOL!
or u still believ u speak ancient macedonian language although there is no evidence for it.
Greek language basic letters were phjoenician, gosh open a book once in a while, the greek language is pelasgo-hellenic, only the basic latteres(i think 15 from 28) were phoenician,
dimalex8 2 years ago
No,your alphabet is phoenician,and the language is Arxaic!
Our language is ancient Macedonian,and prove for that are the bigger number of ancient words in our language!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
what? are u sure, give me a serius linguist that proved it.
dimalex8 2 years ago
u clearly need to read more unbiased books. Ancient greece is what we call ancient hellas or hellenistic times.
its the period of history when hellenes became dominant in culture, in language, in power, in ideas etch.
ancient greece or hellenism starts from the minoan era aproxemetly in 2700B.C.(in their rise) and it ends with the death of the last great greek as romans called her Hypatia 415 A.D. because she said earth is round and revolves around the sun(christians didnt allow this)
dimalex8 2 years ago
Then comes the 2nd Hellenistik era.
It starts again in 608 A.D. when emperor Herakleios made byzantine empire more hellenistic(oficial language greek, greek ideals etch.)although byzantine empire was not so much greek but hellenistik, it ended in 1453 when constantinopole fall.
dimalex8 2 years ago
but i got a similar question for u, why in the greek wars(greek major civil war sparta vs athens) which is known as CIVIL war not only from all the historians and scholars(including urs) Macedonians not only took part but they were with the spartan side in what spartans called "sacred peloponisian and hellenik alliance).
The illyrians and thracian(except greek colonies and parts which were with athens) didnt took part
dimalex8 2 years ago
anyways i tired cause i dont see any serius argument from ur side.
TO MAKE IT CLEAR
I am not nationalist, i love history(i study history) i know there are many black pages in greek history that greeks dont know(cause of the church influence in greece) i hate all nationalists greeks especially, but also i know when i am right.
im basing my opinions in facts and the archaiological discoverys till now, maybe in the future we will find that will change my mind but untill now i am right
PEACE
dimalex8 2 years ago
since they betrayed hellenistic ideals(freedom) and their language although still greek had many illyrian infuences, greeks considered illyrians very barbaric ones.
Same thing happened with thebans, whom spartans sacked their city and declared them as no longer hellenes, after epanmeinondas defeated spartans they were accepted back in the olympic games.
so according ur logic thebans we not hellenes
dimalex8 2 years ago
And could you pls give me the year of the Olimpic game where Alexander the | participated!???
And i asked you about his ancestors,few hundred years ago....how many years Macedonia was isolated????
And i think that the answer about that why Macedonians didn't participate on that games was clear in the Demosthen statements!!!
Macedonians were not Helenes!?
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Alexander I participated in the games, as Herodotus, Pausanias, Arrian wrote. if u deny it then u deny that alexander existed cause they are the only source for alexander.
For the history Alexander managed to compete in olympics when he proved to the judges that he is hellene(from argos thats why they were called argead)
Phillip II also participated in olympics and we still have inscription that talk about him and his victory(1st in stadion)
dimalex8 2 years ago
Ok..now the question is:
-What was Greece????
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
there was no Greece, Greece and Hellas have a huge difference between them.
Macedonia for sure was not greek, it was Hellenik,
to give u an idea
Greece is the greek mainland from peloponisus till Attica
Hellas is consisted by Greece, Crete, Cyprus, Sicyly, Macedonia, Epirus, Thrace(the greek part), Pontus, Asia Minor(or else Ionia-from Ionia comes the word Yunan), Marseille.
this was Hellas in ancient times, sth many greeks and foreigners confuse.
dimalex8 2 years ago
about the name alexander The earliest attested record of the name is the Mycenaean Greek of the feminine Alexandra, written in Linear B(its in museums in greece and berlin) dated on 1500-1300 B.C.
dimalex8 2 years ago
about Alexander I¨
-although Macedon was considered a "barbaric" state by a minority of Greek tribesmen, whose territories were threatened by its expansion. After a court of Elean hellanodikai determined his claim to be true, he was permitted to participate in the Olympic Games in 504 BC-
from
Herodotus 5.22
Justin-7.2.14
i gave 1 roman and 1 greek source
dimalex8 2 years ago
Why that people were identified them self as Macedonians... what the word Macedonian was describe on their personality???
And you still didn't answer me..What was ancient greece????
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
lol, i am certain now that u cant read english, look 6 comments down.
Why people back then identified themself as spartan/athenian/thessalian? Its a geographicla term to identify the inhabits of this geografical area.
dimalex8 2 years ago
Macedonia was geographical term???
Athena was geographical term....AHHAAA
Than Hellada was ?????????????????
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Athens is a city, how undeducated are u, the area where athens,pireus is, is called Attica.
Sparta is a city the area where the spartans lived is called Lakedemonia, hence that we never find spartans call themselfs as spartans but they always were identified as lakedemonian or lakonian.
Macedonia is the area, pella is the city, Thessaly is the area Pharae is the city, Crete is the area Knossos is the city,
dimalex8 2 years ago
This was not Alexander's the great language:
BULGARIAN language :
А Б В Г Д Е Ж З И Й К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Щ Ъ Ю Я
FYROMian (Bulgarian) language :
А Б В Г Д Ѓ Е Ж З Ѕ И Ј К Л Љ М Н Њ О П Р С Т Ќ У Ф Х Ц Ч Џ Ш
nothing more to say
dimalex8 2 years ago
as proved by linear A and linear B(search it, at least u will learn sth), greek or the archaic language as u call it was the same, with different letters, later greeks borrowed letters from phoenicians, and added more from their old aplhabet to form the first homeric alphabet. Its proved tha there are very few similarities in greek and archaic words, as far as macedonian we never found any evidence of any ancient macedonian language nowhere.
dimalex8 2 years ago
Hellada never a geographical term, how many times do i have to tell u.
The identification of Hellas and Hellenes is written in ancient Olympia tombs as the rules of Olympic games!!!! u know the one that macedonians took part and their names are written in Olympia, u might go and see if u dont believe.
dimalex8 2 years ago
the written text in Olympia is:
"In Olympic games all Hellenes are allowed to take part, People with same blood, same language, same traditions and most importantly same religion"
Hellas was wherever there was Hellenism.
"Hellas is an idea with no borders, no restrictions, its the idea of reaserching the ultimate happiness, the complete freedom, Hellas is the dream of life"
Plato
dimalex8 2 years ago
Yes an idea...and you based Alexander identity on idea???And not on his kingdom,i mean and not on his place of origin???
The main reason,why he was called Macedon was,that he was Macedon!
And about Olympic games..Why Alexander the | was the first Macedonian who participated on that games...why his father didn't play,or his grand father..??? Did they were helenes or not???
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Why u ask the same questions again and again? i ansewred them already, Macedonians and Thebans were banned from the olympic games because of their afficialation with Persians, But could take part in other festivals like Pythia and Isthmia.
U asked me what is Hellas and i answeared u with plato and aristotle(the teacher of alexander), if u think they are stupid then u dont see beyond ur little finger,
dimalex8 2 years ago
what is the matter with u? Dont understad?
Subsequently you ignore the mentality of the ancient Greeks.
Which was that:The strong regional feeling that prevailed among them and led to the emphasizing first of their regional identity
i.e.
"just afterwards when the Athenians attacked the Hellenes"
(Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War 62. 2.)
dimalex8 2 years ago
Isocrates about the Lacedaemonians(spartans):
"they are distrusted by all the Peloponnesians;they are hated by most of the Hellenes"
(Isocrates, To Philip 5. 48)
"After this Lysander(Spartan general) sailed into Piraeus, the exiles returned, and the Peloponnesians with great enthusiasm began to tear down the walls to the music of flute-girls, thinking that that day was the beginning of freedom for Hellas."
(Xenophon, Hellenica 2.2.1)
Now tell me out of these who are the greeks?
dimalex8 2 years ago
The answear is all of them, we can see when Athens was in hegemony, it was separate from other greeks, for example Lysander tear down the walls of athens THINKING IT WAS THE BEGINING FOR FREEDOM FOR HELLAS.
Same happened vice versa when athenians were fighting spartans for freedom of hellas.Same with Macedonians, The belief was that all hellenik cities should be free cause thats what hellas meant freedom, thats why although spartans won they didnt expand geographical or conquered any regions.
dimalex8 2 years ago
So,man,you still didn't answer me....How do you base,Alexander identity on IDEA!?
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Jason was named Jaon of Pharae(his city)
Pthagoras(the founder of mathematics) is called Pythagoras Samios(from the island he was born Samos)
Alexandros navla general was called Nerachus of Crete(cause he was cretan)
Alexander the Epirote? Solon the Athenian?
u see what an ignorant argument u gave?
this is all u got? that he was called the macedon? is this where ur lies are based?
Please be more serius i feel like im arguing with a little boy
dimalex8 2 years ago
ΕΛΛΑΝΩΝ ΑΡΧΑΓΟΣ, ΕΠΕΙ ΣΤΡΑΤΟΝ ΩΛΕΣΑ ΜΗΔΩΝ
ΠΑΥΣΑΝΙΑΣ ΦΟΙΒΩ ΜΝΑΜ΄ ΑΝΕΘΗΚΑ ΤΟΔΕ - ΠΑΥΣΑΝΙΑΣ
dimalex8 2 years ago
i answeared u, but it seems u didnt catch it, never mind i will let alexander answear u:
dimalex8 2 years ago
Comment removed
dimalex8 2 years ago
2nd i dont base anyones identity on an idea. Plato, Aristotle did, do if u think that they r crazy, its ur opinion. If u think that the greatest minds of western civilization(along with the greatest one Socrates) didnt know what they wrote, or they wrote stupidities, then sth is wrong with u and i suggest start reading.
dimalex8 2 years ago
No,man...the thing is,that Alexander was called Macedon..and you know WHY!
His name was Alexander of Macedon, and after,when he was conquer Persia,he became Alexander the great!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
My point is that there was never exst a kingdom Helada....how he can be king of IDEA???
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
I don't know, much about them...I can answer you only for the Macedonians!
My personal opinion is that Spartans weren't greeks...but like i was say,i don't know a lot of them!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It is clear that u dont read or dont want to understand any of the comments i wrote
i wrote earlier
Αυτός τε γαρ Έλλην ειμί γένος τωρχαίον.
I am myself a Greek by ancient descend.
Alexander of Macedonia
Herodotos' book Kalliopi,IX,45.
this quote is of Alexander I.
understand? Horodotus Lies?
dimalex8 2 years ago
my poor theory is exacly like urs, this is what i wanted u to understand, ur theories are, im not saying they are false cause everything is possible but yet u havent prove it
i suggest u keep digging untill u find sth purely macedonian with no hellenistic signs in it(i dont think this will ever happen, but u can still dream and hope)
dimalex8 2 years ago
Man..you really continue to use this logic???
What that suppose to mean???
Alexander was called Iskander also..so did he was Afghan??? Or Persian???
You called him Alexandrou, macedonians called him Alexandar,persians Iskander, egyptians God of the Sun....and what this should to mean???Nothing!
i can believe,on what do you base your theory!
hhh!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
Also,there is one other thing...we know that in the past years were find some ancient ''greek'' inscriptions in Trachia...and like we know they were not greeks???
What that suppose to mean???
hhh....you should open you mind,really!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
You thought that my last comments were childish didnt u? well thats what i think when ever i see ur comments, in fact mines have more chances of being true rather urs
Anyway lets get serius now.
Try to read history with an objective mind. Don't let your prejudices cloud your mind and judgement. Otherwise you can never grow as an individual.
a friendly message
dimalex8 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MAKE-mother
DON- dion,the main god
IJA - land
You see,Macedonia is not ''your'' name!
Without OS or IS or other letters!hhhh
You failed again!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
No,like Herodot wrote,Helenes were Ethiopian tribe,who lived in the middle egypt, and from there,came into Arabian Peninsula and from there,in to little Pelazgians city Helea!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
υτός τε γαρ Έλλην ειμί γένος τωρχαίον.
I am myself a Greek by ancient descend.
Alexander of Macedonia,in Herodotos' book Kalliopi,IX,45
wow, u just called alexander ethiopean.
Looks like u dont know what u taloked about, read again herodotus and again and again and again and again untill u realise what u wrote.
dimalex8 2 years ago
Thalia Dragonas, secretary general of the Greek Ministry of Education and university professor from Athens, nowadays faces an avalanche of attacks for stating Greek identity was created in the 19th century.
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
here we go again, dont u ever stop?
what is ur problem with greece? first prove ur identity and then focus to other nations. U r slav, is dragonas statement gona make u greek macedonian? NO
"we are slavs, we have no connection to alexander the great and ancient macedonians we came here in 6th century AD"
YOUR OWN PRESIDENT GLIGOROV....
dimalex8 2 years ago
We have memoirs andf letters of ur own "macedonians" DELCHEV ETCH. WHO are recognised by ur goverment as national heroes where they clearly state they are bulgarians! with signature and recognised as authentic by Fyroms commite and govermend.
dimalex8 2 years ago
Yet u didnt answear any of the questions, nor gave any info, u only spread theories.
I on the contrary gave u answear with name/book/page/date.
i think that u cant accept the truth and constantly close ur eyes,
Believing that u r natives is the most idiotic comment i ever read, as far as Afrika, all mankind came from afrika.
U claimed that u r pelasgian tribe, but we all know that pelasgians came from afrika at about 10000bc! U actually believe that god created u, lol
dimalex8 2 years ago
I think u dont understand english and just copy paste links u see in fyrom nationalist websites, while i do my own research i study archaiology and hate nationalist thought greeks, albanians, turks, skopians, they are all cancer needed to remove from balkans.
Ur country is ruled by nationalists,instead changing that in order to make ur life better, u folloow them and jump from the cliff.
dimalex8 2 years ago
LOl...Pelzagians were the people who were built that on the top of Athens today..i can't remember what was the name!
And there is no evidence about that the Pelazgians were come from africa!
They were the first Balkanian tribe!
Sorry man,you should cut your degree for archeology!
CAKIMacedonian 2 years ago
sorry man, mankind started from afrika, believe it or not is sth that all archaiologists, biologists, etch. agree (of all nationalities) so u r saying that pelasgians were in balkans during the evolution of man?
so ALL scientists(from all the countries mine, urs) are wrong but yet u r right?
L O L .
U REDICULATE URSELF.
dimalex8 2 years ago
As the word Hellas(Ελλάς) and Hellene (Έλληνας ion Attic Έλλανας in Dorian) we find it in Homers Iliad original text(if u have red it) as a pelasgian tribe from Thessaly. Later the word Hellene was used to describe all the people who lived in the same area, spoke the same language, had the same religion and traditions pretty much what consists an ethnicity(Ethnicity or Ethnos come from the greek word Έθιμο hich means tradiotion)
dimalex8 2 years ago
If u have read any greek history, u would know that greek city-states never expanded their territories, they would conquer another state and put a favourable leader towards them.
Before Philip II there weren't any idea of unification of Hellas(with the exception of Jason of Pharae who was murdered just b4 campaigning to persia and opened the door for Philip to gain the Hegemony of Hellas)
dimalex8 2 years ago
In Byzantine times the word Hellene and Hellas was banned cause it became synonimum to pagan, many hellenes were killed and temples destroyed(as we know christianity brought dark ages and set the owrld 1000 years back), the Hellenes converted to christianity were called Greeks, Grekoi or Romans. This was untill emperor Herakleios who made the empire more Hellenistic and ended by the last emperor Konstantinos Palaiologos with his speech were he said "Let us die like true Hellenes"
dimalex8 2 years ago
He shouted this despite the fact that there were more greeks fighting with ottoman side rather with byzantines.
So this thing about the term greece or Hellas is a lie, and i dont understand why u wrote it without doing any reaserch first, well thats what happens when u just copy-paste.
dimalex8 2 years ago
Greeks were not a unified nation even in the persian wars, were thebans allied with persians(with the promise that they would gain hegemony of the other states), does this mean thebans were not greeks? NO.
for the record, the spartans to punish their treason sacked their city.
later in thermopylae leonidas let the greek forces go except thebans cause he was afraid they would betray again. He was right, thebans with the first chance deserted to persians in the final day.
dimalex8 2 years ago
now dirty turks are watching and laughing
REXXORDER 2 years ago 3
man i live in Greece .. I see Churches built over Ancient Greek Temples... this IS a crime! I see priests with BMW and Mercedes while families dont have nothing to eat! I see religius ppl scare weak minded ppl with religius bullshit! those are crimes and there're many many more... those doesnt say anything to you?
PsyMike3d 2 years ago 2
You dont know nothing about history man? Those books and not only, existed thousand years before your relegion, and they destroyed them or kept them in secret! Think before talk or do a small research before saying anything!
PsyMike3d 2 years ago
you are pridefull to say "the one true religion" ... your religion has the most crimes in the human history .... u killed ppl, you destroyed books, temple, knowledge! this is the one true religion? get a life , f@cking sheep!
PsyMike3d 2 years ago