the religious right, Does not care about historical truth especially when it "jeopardizes the false account of history drilled into their heads at the pulpit".
@ZackAttack261"They signed that because they didn't want to control the peoples believes like the Catholic church but that doesn't mean the country wasn't founded by Christan principles." Is that so? Please indicate any article in our constitution that can be equated with a christian principle. I'll wait.
@ZackAttack261 Actually, yes it does. "As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." Christian principles are part of the Christian religion, so that clause expressly excludes them.
The United States was and is a secular country born of the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, the age of growing Literacy and the progressive Humanistic movement that sprang up during the 18th Century.
They signed that because they didn't want to control the peoples believes (sic) like the Catholic church but that doesn't mean the country wasn't founded by Christan (sic) principles.
Freedom of religion and the separation of church and State certainly are not Christian tenets. Tis the antithesis. Nor is freedom of speech and the press. Get out of the sun and clean that gunpowder out of your ears.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This vid igorn historical fact when they ignor God. The founders were religous plp who set the foindation of this Repubicl upon Christian pricibles. It is only now that those pricables are being ignor that we are sing a deteriation in this Republic. To restor our former glory we must trun back to God!
Yeah, that is why Pres. Jefferson was called an atheist by his religious opponents?
You can look up the Treaty of Tripoli, google it. It is very clearly in it's language under Article 11, I believe.
Also, you may want to do some historical research about the things said, and known facts about Founder's religious views (which shouldn't effect our choices now, as they were all slave owners too). Maybe research the results of history of Christian violence. John 3:16
@starmaster40 bu haaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA YOUR ENGLISH ITS ATROCIOUS AMERICA SHOULD TURN TOWARDS BACK TO REASON,SCIENCE,INNOVATION,HARDWORK AND THE CAN FUCKIN DO THAT MADE IT GREAT KEEP YOUR RELIGION BUT DONT IMPLEMENT IT IN THE GOVERMENT IT DOSENT END WELL FOR ANYONE SECULAR MOVEMENT BIATCH
@eddygoombah I'm actually in a debate with a guy who claims Barlow was a christian hater who deliberatly made up the article 11, he says it's highly regarded as a forgery.
@eddygoombah Aparently historians lol I read about how the Barlow translation is apparently faulty and the article 11 doesn't even really exist on as found by a 1931 commission. I don't know it's pretty weird, I've never heard this shit before.
@Reasonwillwin hello, just saw the comment and wanted to reply (forgive the intrusion). The 1931 commission does not say that at all. What they said it was not on a copy on the Arabic translation, which is true, but it was on the American translation (as shown on this video). Barlow did not forge the document, do people even know who Barlow was? What did he have to do with the translation? Plenty of info out there on the treaty.
I don't understand why US atheists bother with this argument other than to show a bit of history. If your founding fathers were compete conspiracy theorists and made a crappy constitution, you'd fix it without appealing to history. If they made one that was only 75% good, you'd keep what was good and toss the bad.
@IndulgingExistence In the US, candidates of the republican party often call the US a
christian nation, founded on christian principles. The Republicans were not always this way, not untill pres nixon actualy. In fact they were the ones that lead the charge on civil rights. How ever, now christians have hijacked the party of lincoln and work tirelessly to twist the oldest republic into a theocracy.
Just a note, we HAVE changed our constitution. Several times.
Truely absurd in your reasoning. How long was the treaty in force? What did the copy sent to the Arabs say? Have you read the Barlow translation? So when the treaty was re-ratified was article 11 even in the new text?
Article 11 proves nothing about the founding of the nation. Did you actually read the context of the war with the Barbary pirates?
BTW, I notice you do not mention the Treaty of Paris which contained ""In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity"". Why not?
@jfrontier1 "Article 11 proves nothing about the founding of the nation." It shows the founders' intent regarding their perspective on how the new nation was to be governed. The constitution reiterates this perspective through the establishment clause. This was not only used to protect the state from religion, but also religion from being controlled by the state. Regardless, This nation was founded as a secular state governed by people with theistic ideals, not as a christian nation
@eddygoombah Again, where is your evidence? Why not mention the treaty of Paris or the 2nd treaty of tripoli, or the many other treaties that mantion God. Did the men who signed the Dec of Ind claim God and Christ? Read Fed #51, read the writings of SCOTUS James Wilson, read Everson v. Board of Education, In 1775, at least nine of the 13 colonies had established churches. The first act of the congress was to pray (for over 3 hours, look it up), Patrick Henry in 1784 prop. churches paid 4 by cong
@eddygoombah Jefferson even called for public prayers and fasting and called for the govt. to punish those who were" Disturbers of Religious Worship and Sabbath Breakers.” BTW, how many times did he use Sep of Ch and state (and what was the context of the letter)? Did Jefferson even help write the const? Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor(GW1789)
@jfrontier1 Because the mere mention of a 'trinity' in the opening of a document written by the British isn't relevant when compared to the clear, forthright statement that the country is in no way founded as a christian nation?
"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"
@eddygoombah The est clause? What was the context of the clause? What do the founders say this clause means? Do you actually know? I do.
The purpose of the clause was to prevent interference from govt in matters of faith, not the other way around.
"The metaphor of a wall of separation is bad history and worse law. It has made a positive chaos out of court rulings. It should be explicitly abandoned."Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, William Rehnquist
@jfrontier1 I already addressed this in an earlier comment directed to you. I already said that the establishment clause was intended to not only prevent the church from controlling the state, but more importantly to prevent the state from controlling the church. Please read people's comments. The point, however is that the clause clearly states that the state takes no position to support any set religious ideology. Rehnquist was not a founder of this country, sorry
@jfrontier1 "The purpose of the clause was to prevent interference from govt in matters of faith, not the other way around."
What does that even mean? Think about it; if faith interferes in government, that is if someone makes a law based upon their religious beliefs rather than secular purposes, than that law will be a religious law, and enforcing it will effectively be govt interfering in matters of faith.
@jfrontier1 the God in the Declaration does not describe the Christian God. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
Although the Treaty of Tripoli under agreement only lasted a few years and no longer has legal status, it clearly represented the feelings of our Founding Fathers at the beginning of the American government.
@jfrontier1 "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State ... "
@eddygoombah You do not even understand the context of the letter. How many times did he use the phrase? What was the context that he used it in? TJ, in his actual words proves you wrong. Try again.
@jfrontier1 so where in that does GW say that the US is a christian nation? Again, you ignored another of my comments directed to you where I say that "This nation was founded as a secular state governed by people with theistic ideals, not as a christian nation". Simply because GW held a certain ideology (a deist one, mind you) does in no way take away from the fact that this nation was founded as a secular society. Sorry.
@eddygoombah Read his address to the nation (oath of office) and his speech when he left office. Read his speech that I ref. in an earlier comment (GW 1789). GW was in no way a deist. I can, and have shown his comments, in context to the time and place it was given. The nation was founded as a Christian Nation, and the founders said so. Secular? Do not think so.
@jfrontier1 These words are from TJ addressing the CT Danbury Baptists declaring his firm belief in the separation of church and state. Or did you miss the whole "sovereign reverence" bit?
please pay attention when reading. It can only strengthen your arguments. I'm here to help.
@eddygoombah lol, OK lets look at the context of the letter. How often did TJ use the phrase you cite? If he was so for church state seperation why did he call for fasting and prayers when he was in office. Did you read the letters he wrote when they were debating the ratification of the constitution in VA. Interesting stuff. Try to read a little more than silly atheist dogma. Actual history is fun. Try it, you might find you like learning the truth. :)
@jfrontier1: The problem has never been and never shall be one of "Atheism" versus "Theism" of the Founders, but about their hatred of the use of religion to form governmental and public policy. Most were NOT Atheists, but felt strongly that God and Politics were an easy route for demagogues to excuse any policy they wanted to promulgate... as the King and Churck of England of the time had done... and as current versions of that thinking would like to do.
@RyuDarragh Yet, many atheists I speak to say this country was never meant to be a Christian nation and was not founded on Christian principals. I disagree. This nation was formed by Christian principals, read the very early writings of the founders (pre Rev war). From the purtains to the Huguenots people wanted to be free to believe in God, not in the enlightenment.
@jfrontier1: Then we can agree to disagree on what the Founders intended (any previous sentiments were renderd moot and meaningless by the time 1776 rolled around). The Kings intentions and activities, religious and econimic, informed the reasons for the war as a whole. If it had not been for the confluence of religious persecution of so many groups both before King George and encroachments during his reign along with punitive economic shenanigans and political hijinks, we'd still be a colony.
@RyuDarragh Of course we can agree to disagree, never meant to suggest otherwise.
And I still think we would have been founded as a colony due to men like Columbus and others who wanted to make a nation for Christ. Read what the Huguenots wrote and said.
@jfrontier1 In 1790, President George Washington wrote to America's first synagogue, in Rhode Island, that "all possess alike liberty of conscience" and that "toleration" was an "inherent national gift," not the government's to dole out or take away
@eddygoombah GW inargural address. Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to the Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, cont.
@jfrontier1 "Who said "Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785?"
I bet you would say James Madison. Maybe you could follow your own advice and, instead of finding false quotes on the internet, read his "Memorial & Remonstrance" in full. If you lack the fortitude and will abide my interpretation, he is railing against those that would encroach on the FREEDOM of religion, specifically those supporting a bill to pay Christian teachers.
@jgoemat You really should read the context of his letters. Instead of the absurd atheist dogma lets look at some actual history. And thanks for showing you did not read the entire document.
There were some great men who decided that this country was to be founded by men of God. Not some silly secular ideas. May I sugest you try rereading the original documents that the founders wrote. There were may great debates between the atheists/agnostics and the Christians, anti and federists etc.
@jfrontier1 The enlightenment gave birth to America, not Christianity. What is different than in other Christian nations over the centuries? It was the philosophy of Natural Rights that led to revolution and the establishment of a representative democracy. Religion is mentioned only twice in the constitution, both times restricting its power in government. You need to realize the difference between a nation OF Christians and being a "Christian Nation"
@jgoemat Thanks for the comments. "Now I will avow, that I then believed, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System" John Adams to Thomas Jefferson. Lots of letters like this are out there, try to find a few. You might be surprised by what you find. Take care and have a great day!
@jfrontier1: Yes. Very revealing. Don't pick just the ones by a True Believer. Read some of Jeffersons own feelings on the matter as well as most of the other Founders. They had no problem with "religion" so long as it stayed out of politics and public policy and had no problem with God, either, many being Deists... also with the proviso of keeping him OUT of politics and policy.
@RyuDarragh Thanks for the comment. I did and do study what the founders said. Please watch my video on the treaty (it is attached to this one). I try to explain the context of the treaty.
I think I would disagree with your reasoning about the founders. I think it was more of the founders did not want the state to interfere with faith, not so much of faith interfering with the state.
@RyuDarragh Just like today, the founding fathers had many differing beliefs but wanted to make a more perfect union. But of course that was the questions. The antifederalists were against the constitution but the federalists were for it. The anti's got the bill of rights added to it. Differing beliefs but a common goal.
If you read Adams and even Jefferson and Washington and Jay we see many pro Faith statements. After all, who started the Bible tract society, who printed the 1st bible in AM?
That whole argument about what this country was founded on is moot anyway. This country was founded in a different era and a lot has changed. We know we want to be secular now and that's all that should matter. Separation of Church and State and Free Speech - two American staples of law that must always be preserved.
I would like to see more videos like this. The declarations made by the heads of states of nations on this planet should be a fairly important concern to the people of those nations. If you don't like living in a nation that does not have stated support of your particular belief, i.e. America and christianity, feel free to move to a country that does to show your support for their founders, leaders and views. Otherwise don't move and complain (boo) or support something like a new colony on Mars.
@MethodicalMadness History lesson: Why there was a need for a Treaty of Tripoli: "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and ... Cont.
@MethodicalMadness COnt. ...above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once."- Thomas Jefferson
@somethingdiffereable Meh...I wouldn't tell them to drop dead. I would just tell those who think that there should be no separation of church and state to get more educated.
Obviously a liberal plant in a future administration rewrote the history books so it would appear we are by law a secular nation. There's no other rational explanation. Just look at what the damned liberals did to the bible. Better yet, look at how they were able to forge Obama's birth certificate to appear he was born in Hawaii. If they can get away with that, no telling what they will stop at! Next it will be something like J. Edgar Hoover liked to dress in drag and be called Loretta!
@deepashtray get real, obamas birth certificate? i didnt see anyone asking for anyone else birth cerificate that became president....This is because he IS BLACK....it is another way for people to be RACIST, by harrassing a person who was born a u.s citizen, so instead of openly Callling for "the Nigger to hang" you try to slander the man by saying he isnt a citizen?
and it isnt a liberal plant, United states is founder as secular, to escape the persecution of england for non-beleivers
@deepashtray STFU with your stupid ass conspiracy theories, OBAMA WAS BORN IN THE US, he proved it, so now you can go shove your head down donald trumps ass you stupid fuck.
@bcloss7175 If I were trolling I would have to be stupid to try and match wits with eddygoombah. A trick I've figured out if you have doubts about a persons intentions is to check out their channel before replying... obviously a couple of people here didn't do that. Thanks. P.s. I'm subbing eddygoombah right now : )
@deepashtray Ha ha, my mistake. I actually hadn't had time to watch the entire video, but saw this comment and misunderstood the point you were making. This is actually a very interesting vid. I may check out some other vids on here as well and see if they are all on this level of intellectual thinking which so many channels on here are not, sadly enough.
@bcloss7175: There's more than just the treaty. Read the letters to each other by the Founders and the books they published. The letters were never meant as matters of public record and are very enlightening, being very candid and truthful about what they believed. In their own words.
I'm living in country where the Evangelical Lutheran church is the official state religion. The church is paid for over the tax and "under god" is written into the contusion. But we has the third-highest proportion of atheists and agnostics in the world. Some say 80%. Less than 5% attends churches for Sunday services. Yah, as an atheist, it really sucks to live in a christian nation.
the combination of general ignorance regarding American history and the dishonest rewriting of that history by spokespersons for the religious right in America, has created much damage. When a president refers to the constitution as "just a damned piece of paper", when one of the two political parties regularly uses such disingenuous arguments to claim that 'democracy' is only for them, when religious liars claim they 'own' America, the shit is already hitting the fan. America is doomed.
@hairyreasoner Depends on what you mean--"country" is a big word. If you mean most US citizens profess christianity, then yes. Or that most of the Founders were christians, then yes. If you mean the government that they founded, then most certainly no. The Constitution--the only document that gives our government it's authority is completely secular. Christian beliefs have nothing to do with the Constitution or the government that it founded. Belief is up to the individual.
@eddygoombah don't get right wrong - they don't ignore the facts regarding the nations founding - they willingly lie, confuse and obfusticate. They do it on purpose - a passive rewriting of history - remember 'who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' 1984 G. Orwell
Have you seen my video "Constitutional Arguments"? I completely agree that this country was founded on secular grounds, but even if it was founded as a theocracy, that would be no reason at all for it to remain one today.
it doesnt matter what you do or what you say. teabaggers like brock lawley will rewrite what ever they feel they need to in support of their world view.
To be fair, only intelligent (or at the very least wealthy) people were taught to read in the 18th century, and the people who say "This is a Christian nation," are primarily idiots. It wasn't until Jefferson was president that the US established public schools.
@Jonstern1983 I misread this. There were public schools in the Colonies as far back as the 1600's, but they were localized, highly religious, and focused on the wealthy.
lol 666 likes
xITSDUCKYx 1 month ago
had to post this to Facebook, thanks for the video.
darbone 4 months ago in playlist More videos from eddygoombah
the religious right, Does not care about historical truth especially when it "jeopardizes the false account of history drilled into their heads at the pulpit".
Obasiliasfilosofos 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ZackAttack261"They signed that because they didn't want to control the peoples believes like the Catholic church but that doesn't mean the country wasn't founded by Christan principles." Is that so? Please indicate any article in our constitution that can be equated with a christian principle. I'll wait.
fdasherv 4 months ago
@ZackAttack261 Actually, yes it does. "As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." Christian principles are part of the Christian religion, so that clause expressly excludes them.
The United States was and is a secular country born of the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, the age of growing Literacy and the progressive Humanistic movement that sprang up during the 18th Century.
TheGeneralCritic 4 months ago 3
But But But Fox News says this is a Christian nation.....
sergeantrex 4 months ago
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@ZackAttack261
They signed that because they didn't want to control the peoples believes (sic) like the Catholic church but that doesn't mean the country wasn't founded by Christan (sic) principles.
Freedom of religion and the separation of church and State certainly are not Christian tenets. Tis the antithesis. Nor is freedom of speech and the press. Get out of the sun and clean that gunpowder out of your ears.
OnTheFritz602 4 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This vid igorn historical fact when they ignor God. The founders were religous plp who set the foindation of this Repubicl upon Christian pricibles. It is only now that those pricables are being ignor that we are sing a deteriation in this Republic. To restor our former glory we must trun back to God!
starmaster40 5 months ago
@starmaster40 ummm... huh? was that english?
eddygoombah 5 months ago 10
@eddygoombah "ummm... huh? was that english?"
If it were it's not any English I'm familiar with.
AGrandt 4 months ago
@AGrandt Maybe it was Homeschoolglish? (actually, typing that, I heard Hugh Laurie, in his House voice, say that in my head)
Beggar42 4 months ago
@Beggar42 he he, regardless of what it is, appalling is a suitable word for it, sloppy is another :)
I really don't understand the ... need for some people to pull their spelling and grammar out of their ***.
I blame SMS, and Prince for most of it.
AGrandt 4 months ago
@eddygoombah That is classical engrish written by an extremely mislead and foolish person.
aerhearts 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@starmaster40
Yeah, that is why Pres. Jefferson was called an atheist by his religious opponents?
You can look up the Treaty of Tripoli, google it. It is very clearly in it's language under Article 11, I believe.
Also, you may want to do some historical research about the things said, and known facts about Founder's religious views (which shouldn't effect our choices now, as they were all slave owners too). Maybe research the results of history of Christian violence. John 3:16
DeconversionCentral 4 months ago
Comment removed
AypexLol 4 months ago
@starmaster40
Too obvious of a troll. Please stop trying.
AypexLol 4 months ago
@starmaster40 bu haaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA YOUR ENGLISH ITS ATROCIOUS AMERICA SHOULD TURN TOWARDS BACK TO REASON,SCIENCE,INNOVATION,HARDWORK AND THE CAN FUCKIN DO THAT MADE IT GREAT KEEP YOUR RELIGION BUT DONT IMPLEMENT IT IN THE GOVERMENT IT DOSENT END WELL FOR ANYONE SECULAR MOVEMENT BIATCH
Abbadon380 3 months ago
@starmaster40 You are a moron apparently.
trythinkingnow 1 month ago
lim (intelligence -> 0) = religious puppet
apeirce20 6 months ago
Subbed. Love the video!
bcloss7175 7 months ago
Please allow video comments. I tried to add a video response to this.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 I do allow video responses, just not automatically. I do this to prevent spam. Once I get home, I will approve it.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah Great thanks. And feel free to comment. BTW, I allow them auto (on some of my videos). I understand, we all get spammed.
Take care.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@eddygoombah Hey Eddy what do you have to say about people who think the treaty was forged by Joel Barlow?
Reasonwillwin 7 months ago
@Reasonwillwin first I've heard of that. So I don't really know. However, I would ask them for proof.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah I'm actually in a debate with a guy who claims Barlow was a christian hater who deliberatly made up the article 11, he says it's highly regarded as a forgery.
Reasonwillwin 7 months ago
@Reasonwillwin highly regarded according to whom?
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah Aparently historians lol I read about how the Barlow translation is apparently faulty and the article 11 doesn't even really exist on as found by a 1931 commission. I don't know it's pretty weird, I've never heard this shit before.
Reasonwillwin 7 months ago
@Reasonwillwin hello, just saw the comment and wanted to reply (forgive the intrusion). The 1931 commission does not say that at all. What they said it was not on a copy on the Arabic translation, which is true, but it was on the American translation (as shown on this video). Barlow did not forge the document, do people even know who Barlow was? What did he have to do with the translation? Plenty of info out there on the treaty.
Take care.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@eddygoombah Forgot to say, thanks for letting me do a video resonse and add it to this one.
Have a great day.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
good vid eddie
JESUStheATHEIST1 7 months ago
Interesting
Nazam44 7 months ago
I don't understand why US atheists bother with this argument other than to show a bit of history. If your founding fathers were compete conspiracy theorists and made a crappy constitution, you'd fix it without appealing to history. If they made one that was only 75% good, you'd keep what was good and toss the bad.
IndulgingExistence 7 months ago
@IndulgingExistence
(Not an american but)
It is a response to the common refrain, "We are a christian nation" or "the US was founded on christian principles"
gotohell114 7 months ago
@IndulgingExistence In the US, candidates of the republican party often call the US a
christian nation, founded on christian principles. The Republicans were not always this way, not untill pres nixon actualy. In fact they were the ones that lead the charge on civil rights. How ever, now christians have hijacked the party of lincoln and work tirelessly to twist the oldest republic into a theocracy.
Just a note, we HAVE changed our constitution. Several times.
Felhaven 7 months ago
Truely absurd in your reasoning. How long was the treaty in force? What did the copy sent to the Arabs say? Have you read the Barlow translation? So when the treaty was re-ratified was article 11 even in the new text?
Article 11 proves nothing about the founding of the nation. Did you actually read the context of the war with the Barbary pirates?
BTW, I notice you do not mention the Treaty of Paris which contained ""In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity"". Why not?
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 "Article 11 proves nothing about the founding of the nation." It shows the founders' intent regarding their perspective on how the new nation was to be governed. The constitution reiterates this perspective through the establishment clause. This was not only used to protect the state from religion, but also religion from being controlled by the state. Regardless, This nation was founded as a secular state governed by people with theistic ideals, not as a christian nation
eddygoombah 7 months ago 13
@eddygoombah Again, where is your evidence? Why not mention the treaty of Paris or the 2nd treaty of tripoli, or the many other treaties that mantion God. Did the men who signed the Dec of Ind claim God and Christ? Read Fed #51, read the writings of SCOTUS James Wilson, read Everson v. Board of Education, In 1775, at least nine of the 13 colonies had established churches. The first act of the congress was to pray (for over 3 hours, look it up), Patrick Henry in 1784 prop. churches paid 4 by cong
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@eddygoombah Jefferson even called for public prayers and fasting and called for the govt. to punish those who were" Disturbers of Religious Worship and Sabbath Breakers.” BTW, how many times did he use Sep of Ch and state (and what was the context of the letter)? Did Jefferson even help write the const? Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor(GW1789)
jfrontier1 7 months ago
Comment removed
tifforo1 4 months ago
@jfrontier1 Which Treaty of Paris? Just curious as there are at least 4 that involve the U.S..
deepashtray 7 months ago
@deepashtray 1783.
Thanks for the comment.
Have a great day.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 Because the mere mention of a 'trinity' in the opening of a document written by the British isn't relevant when compared to the clear, forthright statement that the country is in no way founded as a christian nation?
jgoemat 7 months ago
@jgoemat Then perhaps you should read the entire document.
Just curious, have you read the 2nd treaty of tripoli? The article was removed. Does that mean we were founded as a Christian nation?
And why not answer the questions I asked above?
Who propsed this motto on the national seal, “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.” ?
Who said "Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785?
So, what world view gave birth to America? Christianity. Prove me wrong?
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1
"Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"
The US Constitution proves you wrong.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah The est clause? What was the context of the clause? What do the founders say this clause means? Do you actually know? I do.
The purpose of the clause was to prevent interference from govt in matters of faith, not the other way around.
"The metaphor of a wall of separation is bad history and worse law. It has made a positive chaos out of court rulings. It should be explicitly abandoned."Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, William Rehnquist
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 I already addressed this in an earlier comment directed to you. I already said that the establishment clause was intended to not only prevent the church from controlling the state, but more importantly to prevent the state from controlling the church. Please read people's comments. The point, however is that the clause clearly states that the state takes no position to support any set religious ideology. Rehnquist was not a founder of this country, sorry
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 "The purpose of the clause was to prevent interference from govt in matters of faith, not the other way around."
What does that even mean? Think about it; if faith interferes in government, that is if someone makes a law based upon their religious beliefs rather than secular purposes, than that law will be a religious law, and enforcing it will effectively be govt interfering in matters of faith.
Hooya2 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 the God in the Declaration does not describe the Christian God. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
The Declaration of Independence proves you wrong
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@jfrontier1
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
Although the Treaty of Tripoli under agreement only lasted a few years and no longer has legal status, it clearly represented the feelings of our Founding Fathers at the beginning of the American government.
The Treaty of Tripoli STILL proves you wrong
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State ... "
Thomas Jefferson proves you wrong.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah You do not even understand the context of the letter. How many times did he use the phrase? What was the context that he used it in? TJ, in his actual words proves you wrong. Try again.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 so where in that does GW say that the US is a christian nation? Again, you ignored another of my comments directed to you where I say that "This nation was founded as a secular state governed by people with theistic ideals, not as a christian nation". Simply because GW held a certain ideology (a deist one, mind you) does in no way take away from the fact that this nation was founded as a secular society. Sorry.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah Read his address to the nation (oath of office) and his speech when he left office. Read his speech that I ref. in an earlier comment (GW 1789). GW was in no way a deist. I can, and have shown his comments, in context to the time and place it was given. The nation was founded as a Christian Nation, and the founders said so. Secular? Do not think so.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 These words are from TJ addressing the CT Danbury Baptists declaring his firm belief in the separation of church and state. Or did you miss the whole "sovereign reverence" bit?
please pay attention when reading. It can only strengthen your arguments. I'm here to help.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah lol, OK lets look at the context of the letter. How often did TJ use the phrase you cite? If he was so for church state seperation why did he call for fasting and prayers when he was in office. Did you read the letters he wrote when they were debating the ratification of the constitution in VA. Interesting stuff. Try to read a little more than silly atheist dogma. Actual history is fun. Try it, you might find you like learning the truth. :)
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1: The problem has never been and never shall be one of "Atheism" versus "Theism" of the Founders, but about their hatred of the use of religion to form governmental and public policy. Most were NOT Atheists, but felt strongly that God and Politics were an easy route for demagogues to excuse any policy they wanted to promulgate... as the King and Churck of England of the time had done... and as current versions of that thinking would like to do.
RyuDarragh 7 months ago
@RyuDarragh Yet, many atheists I speak to say this country was never meant to be a Christian nation and was not founded on Christian principals. I disagree. This nation was formed by Christian principals, read the very early writings of the founders (pre Rev war). From the purtains to the Huguenots people wanted to be free to believe in God, not in the enlightenment.
Have a great day!
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1: Then we can agree to disagree on what the Founders intended (any previous sentiments were renderd moot and meaningless by the time 1776 rolled around). The Kings intentions and activities, religious and econimic, informed the reasons for the war as a whole. If it had not been for the confluence of religious persecution of so many groups both before King George and encroachments during his reign along with punitive economic shenanigans and political hijinks, we'd still be a colony.
RyuDarragh 7 months ago
@RyuDarragh Of course we can agree to disagree, never meant to suggest otherwise.
And I still think we would have been founded as a colony due to men like Columbus and others who wanted to make a nation for Christ. Read what the Huguenots wrote and said.
Take care and have a great day.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 In 1790, President George Washington wrote to America's first synagogue, in Rhode Island, that "all possess alike liberty of conscience" and that "toleration" was an "inherent national gift," not the government's to dole out or take away
George Washington Proves you wrong
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@eddygoombah GW inargural address. Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to the Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, cont.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 "Who said "Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785?"
I bet you would say James Madison. Maybe you could follow your own advice and, instead of finding false quotes on the internet, read his "Memorial & Remonstrance" in full. If you lack the fortitude and will abide my interpretation, he is railing against those that would encroach on the FREEDOM of religion, specifically those supporting a bill to pay Christian teachers.
jgoemat 7 months ago
@jgoemat You really should read the context of his letters. Instead of the absurd atheist dogma lets look at some actual history. And thanks for showing you did not read the entire document.
There were some great men who decided that this country was to be founded by men of God. Not some silly secular ideas. May I sugest you try rereading the original documents that the founders wrote. There were may great debates between the atheists/agnostics and the Christians, anti and federists etc.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1 The enlightenment gave birth to America, not Christianity. What is different than in other Christian nations over the centuries? It was the philosophy of Natural Rights that led to revolution and the establishment of a representative democracy. Religion is mentioned only twice in the constitution, both times restricting its power in government. You need to realize the difference between a nation OF Christians and being a "Christian Nation"
jgoemat 7 months ago
@jgoemat Thanks for the comments. "Now I will avow, that I then believed, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System" John Adams to Thomas Jefferson. Lots of letters like this are out there, try to find a few. You might be surprised by what you find. Take care and have a great day!
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@jfrontier1: Yes. Very revealing. Don't pick just the ones by a True Believer. Read some of Jeffersons own feelings on the matter as well as most of the other Founders. They had no problem with "religion" so long as it stayed out of politics and public policy and had no problem with God, either, many being Deists... also with the proviso of keeping him OUT of politics and policy.
RyuDarragh 7 months ago
@RyuDarragh Thanks for the comment. I did and do study what the founders said. Please watch my video on the treaty (it is attached to this one). I try to explain the context of the treaty.
I think I would disagree with your reasoning about the founders. I think it was more of the founders did not want the state to interfere with faith, not so much of faith interfering with the state.
jfrontier1 7 months ago
@RyuDarragh Just like today, the founding fathers had many differing beliefs but wanted to make a more perfect union. But of course that was the questions. The antifederalists were against the constitution but the federalists were for it. The anti's got the bill of rights added to it. Differing beliefs but a common goal.
If you read Adams and even Jefferson and Washington and Jay we see many pro Faith statements. After all, who started the Bible tract society, who printed the 1st bible in AM?
jfrontier1 7 months ago
One person is..... you guessed it....... a FUCKTARD!
oliethefolie 7 months ago 2
RIGHT ON!!!!
ThoughtCriminal4 7 months ago
EEE
(tripple E)
Domzdream 7 months ago
That whole argument about what this country was founded on is moot anyway. This country was founded in a different era and a lot has changed. We know we want to be secular now and that's all that should matter. Separation of Church and State and Free Speech - two American staples of law that must always be preserved.
kenotube 7 months ago 2
Why were half the s's replaced with f's?
jaimesthesaint 7 months ago
@jaimesthesaint wikipedia search "long s"
80jasey 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Read a real fucking book and shut the fuck up.
TomDodsonMusic 7 months ago
@TomDodsonMusic huh?
eddygoombah 7 months ago 11
@eddygoombah don't worry. they a fundie troll
MrWill7980 7 months ago
@TomDodsonMusic Are you daft?
TheRationalist76 7 months ago
@TheRationalist76 I was mimicking his comment on another video which was equally as daft
TomDodsonMusic 7 months ago
@TomDodsonMusic again.... huh?
eddygoombah 7 months ago
A Theocracy is exactly the opposite of what USA stands for, freedom and progress.
ZZzzzzzWhat 7 months ago 4
Exactly ★★★★★
Katalyzt 7 months ago
RIck Perry watched this.
multicaal2 7 months ago 2
you expect Republicans to accept historical fact? come on, get real, anyone can see that they re-write history to suit their own agendas...
THEMrFill 7 months ago 4
I would like to see more videos like this. The declarations made by the heads of states of nations on this planet should be a fairly important concern to the people of those nations. If you don't like living in a nation that does not have stated support of your particular belief, i.e. America and christianity, feel free to move to a country that does to show your support for their founders, leaders and views. Otherwise don't move and complain (boo) or support something like a new colony on Mars.
ABitOfTheUniverse 7 months ago
Subbed, liked, added to favorites.
AtheistStream 7 months ago
This video kicks a lot of ass.
MrStillmans 7 months ago 5
Also new American Citizens, such as Christopher Hitchens, are not obliged to end the Oath of Allegiance with "so help me god".
pilgrimpater 7 months ago
History and fact: 2 things the radical right know nothing about.
MethodicalMadness 7 months ago 3
@MethodicalMadness History lesson: Why there was a need for a Treaty of Tripoli: "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and ... Cont.
Exmech2 7 months ago
@MethodicalMadness COnt. ...above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once."- Thomas Jefferson
Exmech2 7 months ago
Too all Christians and other Religious zealots. DROP DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
somethingdiffereable 7 months ago
@somethingdiffereable Meh...I wouldn't tell them to drop dead. I would just tell those who think that there should be no separation of church and state to get more educated.
fruitikay 7 months ago
I feel a little depressed that I see that actual statue in the last picture from the video on a daily basis on my way to school...
ImACuteGeek 7 months ago
Thanks for sharing this bit. This helps in further research for the subject. Thanks again.
FreeformTao 7 months ago
It is not America but the United States of America.
tubetib 7 months ago 4
Obviously a liberal plant in a future administration rewrote the history books so it would appear we are by law a secular nation. There's no other rational explanation. Just look at what the damned liberals did to the bible. Better yet, look at how they were able to forge Obama's birth certificate to appear he was born in Hawaii. If they can get away with that, no telling what they will stop at! Next it will be something like J. Edgar Hoover liked to dress in drag and be called Loretta!
deepashtray 7 months ago 31
@deepashtray Awesome poe man, kudos :)
Strutinan 7 months ago
@Strutinan : D
deepashtray 7 months ago
@deepashtray Sure it wasn't just Satan ;)?
Saufm 7 months ago
@Saufm Hard to tell these things ; ]
deepashtray 7 months ago
@deepashtray get real, obamas birth certificate? i didnt see anyone asking for anyone else birth cerificate that became president....This is because he IS BLACK....it is another way for people to be RACIST, by harrassing a person who was born a u.s citizen, so instead of openly Callling for "the Nigger to hang" you try to slander the man by saying he isnt a citizen?
and it isnt a liberal plant, United states is founder as secular, to escape the persecution of england for non-beleivers
MadMAn12gauge 7 months ago
@MadMAn12gauge You do realize that (deepashtray) was a Poe response, right?
firefly4f4 7 months ago
@firefly4f4 Thanks for pointing that out : )
deepashtray 7 months ago
@MadMAn12gauge : D
deepashtray 7 months ago
@MadMAn12gauge hahahaha he's just kidding mate
TheRationalist76 7 months ago
@TheRationalist76 ummm, i allready knew that.....thats why he agreed with me with his response....i was talking about the same people he was.....
MadMAn12gauge 7 months ago
@MadMAn12gauge Okay, just making sure
TheRationalist76 7 months ago
@deepashtray STFU with your stupid ass conspiracy theories, OBAMA WAS BORN IN THE US, he proved it, so now you can go shove your head down donald trumps ass you stupid fuck.
246iraqi107 7 months ago
@246iraqi107 I love how the troll just got poe'd. Well done 246iraqi107, you have now reached the lowest depth of pathetic. Congrats.
eddygoombah 7 months ago
@246iraqi107 You fail at sarcasm forever.
Also, manners.
Polymeron 7 months ago
@246iraqi107 You fail at sarcasm forever.
Also, manners.
Polymeron 7 months ago
@246iraqi107 : D
deepashtray 7 months ago
@deepashtray Not sure if trolling, or just really stupid...
bcloss7175 7 months ago
@bcloss7175 If I were trolling I would have to be stupid to try and match wits with eddygoombah. A trick I've figured out if you have doubts about a persons intentions is to check out their channel before replying... obviously a couple of people here didn't do that. Thanks. P.s. I'm subbing eddygoombah right now : )
deepashtray 7 months ago
@deepashtray Ha ha, my mistake. I actually hadn't had time to watch the entire video, but saw this comment and misunderstood the point you were making. This is actually a very interesting vid. I may check out some other vids on here as well and see if they are all on this level of intellectual thinking which so many channels on here are not, sadly enough.
bcloss7175 7 months ago
@bcloss7175: There's more than just the treaty. Read the letters to each other by the Founders and the books they published. The letters were never meant as matters of public record and are very enlightening, being very candid and truthful about what they believed. In their own words.
RyuDarragh 7 months ago
One of the best videos on this subject I have seen. Thanks.
Ansonidak 7 months ago
Fuck yeah., Loved it. Dont think it will make a difference in the brainless head of fundies, but it;s good that you post this stuff. good vid.
jrev37 7 months ago
This went right into my favorites :-)
Vogter666 7 months ago
I'm living in country where the Evangelical Lutheran church is the official state religion. The church is paid for over the tax and "under god" is written into the contusion. But we has the third-highest proportion of atheists and agnostics in the world. Some say 80%. Less than 5% attends churches for Sunday services. Yah, as an atheist, it really sucks to live in a christian nation.
nekedemus 7 months ago 3
the combination of general ignorance regarding American history and the dishonest rewriting of that history by spokespersons for the religious right in America, has created much damage. When a president refers to the constitution as "just a damned piece of paper", when one of the two political parties regularly uses such disingenuous arguments to claim that 'democracy' is only for them, when religious liars claim they 'own' America, the shit is already hitting the fan. America is doomed.
MacNutz2 7 months ago 2
But, um, but. Ummmm.
Your'e a Christian country founded on Christian beliefs, right?
hairyreasoner 7 months ago
@hairyreasoner Depends on what you mean--"country" is a big word. If you mean most US citizens profess christianity, then yes. Or that most of the Founders were christians, then yes. If you mean the government that they founded, then most certainly no. The Constitution--the only document that gives our government it's authority is completely secular. Christian beliefs have nothing to do with the Constitution or the government that it founded. Belief is up to the individual.
BiffWhitebread13 7 months ago
@BiffWhitebread13 If it were only that simple, and so observed. It's a sadness. And it's had quite regrettable results...
hairyreasoner 7 months ago
oh how america has fallen.
manhunt48 7 months ago
@eddygoombah don't get right wrong - they don't ignore the facts regarding the nations founding - they willingly lie, confuse and obfusticate. They do it on purpose - a passive rewriting of history - remember 'who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' 1984 G. Orwell
rictusgate 7 months ago
ok god bend over its time for another dose of goombah
ZLi0n 7 months ago
Have you seen my video "Constitutional Arguments"? I completely agree that this country was founded on secular grounds, but even if it was founded as a theocracy, that would be no reason at all for it to remain one today.
GrapplingIgnorance 7 months ago
The Congress determines the moral laws of the U.S., not God.
No God required.
MyGodTheresNoGod 7 months ago 72
@MyGodTheresNoGod The US Congress determines morality? In that case, we're definitely fucked.
StralockJenkins 7 months ago
Yay classical liberals.
Houshalter 7 months ago 2
@Houshalter What?? LOL
LtShock 7 months ago
@Houshalter Yay Classical Liberals? WTF is that? Having trouble with facts?
2020pfw 7 months ago
it doesnt matter what you do or what you say. teabaggers like brock lawley will rewrite what ever they feel they need to in support of their world view.
give up eddy, its not an ideal its a virus.
MpowerdAPE 7 months ago
If only facts were part of the discussion.
no2religions 7 months ago
To be fair, only intelligent (or at the very least wealthy) people were taught to read in the 18th century, and the people who say "This is a Christian nation," are primarily idiots. It wasn't until Jefferson was president that the US established public schools.
Jonstern1983 7 months ago
@Jonstern1983 I misread this. There were public schools in the Colonies as far back as the 1600's, but they were localized, highly religious, and focused on the wealthy.
Jonstern1983 7 months ago
Well done Eddie, I've had arguments/falling-outs with friends on FaceBook over this *issue*, as it were.
OnTheFritz602 7 months ago
Speaking of FaceBook, I'd like to link this just to ruffle some feathers, with your permission of course.
OnTheFritz602 7 months ago
@OnTheFritz602 sure
eddygoombah 7 months ago
Democratic? Pretty sure the founding fathers didn't like democracy very much.
CelticAlphabet 7 months ago
But the US is still a Christian nation, right?
ozmoroid 7 months ago
and they still will say their bullshit, I bet!
Haradin32 7 months ago
USA - United States of Atheists
Velvetroomdj 7 months ago
Take that religitards
ihatemonkeyslayerz 7 months ago
Thank GOD you talked about this :P
I hate it when people say America is a Christian nation!!
oliethefolie 7 months ago