JESUS CHRIST, HIS CATHOLIC-UNIVERSAL-APOSTOLIC CHURCH, SACRAMENTS, THE BIBLE, MIRACLES, HEALINGS, ST. MARY APPARITIONS, MESSAGES FROM HEAVEN, SIGNS IN 2011 ARE NOT A MYTHOLOGY BUT THE REALITY !!!
I think what he meant is that it would be logical if an evil god were to demand that every thinking being should worship, praise and ultimately fear him. Those same demands would be rather perverse if this god was a benign one.
@TheLiteraturist I think what he's trying to say that it would be at least understandable, if God exists, that God would then be diabolical. If he did what he has "done" out of genuine goodness, that would mean our concept of what is good is completely flawed, and any sort of humanistic morality would be instantly obliterated.
Hitchens reminds me of one of those traveling evangelical preachers that used to go from town to town whipping up the faithful into a frenzy then relieving them of their money. Get well, soon.
Why is it that people like this are shoved underground, while people like glen beck are idolized? it feels like the world is anti-human, like people just love destruction and hatred and inequality!!!!!!!!!!!
So, atheists of the US right caused the ongoing Fall of America, says an anti-Theist.
Ask yourself, why have so many atheist coups been ruinous? Why do they use deified Great leaders and states? Why are so many totalitarian, Draconian, puppeting, pagan fakers? Why hasn't CH noticed?
Is the answer, as anti-Theist Rand states: her only influence was the authoritarian, slaver, anti-Theist demagogocrat Aristotle and his Secular stealth coups: blind trust of state with its surveillance by spooks?
@cloudbusterman He often observes that people have a tendency towards hero-worship. I've heard several of his talks and seen it written in God Is Not Great and Letters to a Young Contrarian. I'm certain Hitchens wouldn't blame the atrocities of these so called "atheists coups" on their atheism. They must be taken on a case by case basis. He might choose to blame Objectivists or Stalinists or Amoral Capitalists but it's incidental that they are atheistical groups.
Ayn Rand represents certain of the ideas of Nietzsche debauched by an inferior intellect almost to the point of imbecility. As she's read today by American "libertarians" and such, her incoherent "philosophy" is nothing more than a flimsy excuse for the cult of unadulterated greed and misanthropic callousness.
The only trouble I have is I refuse to believe that this is just it I do not and will not believe that when we die that is it! I do believe in an almighty/ force but that force/ almighty is my own not somebody else's image! Otherwise Some of you seem to drawn into Hitchen's words only through his well spoken manner but thats all he is sorry Chris!
@debrick2490 What's rational about believing you will be in a place of eternal happiness with all your loved ones (at least the ones who believed the same BS as you did)? You may WISH this to be true, but it is not rational to actually think it is. It's insane, literally. It's ridiculous and childish. It's called wishful thinking. All the evidence points to a natural and materialistic world, and we live our lives based on evidence. Period.
Greenspan is not an unrepentant follower of Ayn Rand. He abandoned those principles when he took the job as Federal Reserve chairman. Rand is not Nietzscheian in any sense of the word. Hitchens needs to read Rand and not listen to what others have to say about her.
Good point about the North Korea thing. I watched a documentary about NK and they traveled there and talked to people. At one point the reporter asked a family they were with if Kim Jung Il could be wrong, and all they got back was utter confusion. You might imagine the same response from a Christian who had been raised in complete seclusion from differing thought. It's EVIL to teach people not to question. As we can see, they often grow incapable of it.
Ive been listening to Hitchens for a long time, but I dont understand what he means when he says that that paradise would be like a totalitarian state and it would be worse if it was benign. Does he mean that because the deity is saying "its for your own good" that that makes it worse? if that is the case I would agree... but in any other context it would seem better than eternity in hell fire... can someone explain in case Im missing something
Well, yeah... your second last statement is the core of it... even for North Korea, serving the leader by his side is a better scenario than, say, being imprisoned for life, tortured every single day. But you won't have the dilemma after you're dead or exit it by a slim chance, so at least this grotesque landscape is not permanent.
In Christianity/Islam, you have a North Korea you have no escape from anywhere in the universe, and even after death. => It's great it's not true.
@TheSpankymonkey yeh, those Hitchens lectures are full of welfare mothers who cant afford baby sitters. No i think the person probably could afford one, but dosnt give a shit about annoying everyone.
@aaronsdavis "No i think the person probably could afford one, but dosnt give a shit about annoying everyone." - Do you actually even have kids? Money very rarely is the issue with babysitters. You know, like them actually turning up, trusting them, finding one and all manner of things. It is a poor show when you attribute something to malice which could equally be explained by something else. Being annoyed at children is pretty silly imo. Maybe your words say more about you than her.
@TheSpankymonkey lol we are actually arguing about the kid in the audience crying...im jumping off. ps I dont care if u cant find a baby sitter...if u have kids, its MEANT to be a sacrifice...one option would be to stay home with your baby, and miss out.
Everyone is spiritual in some way. You don't need to believe in god to be spiritual. I think the main fear of people who are religious, is that atheism would destroy their spirits. Until Atheists find a way to help people cope with this, they will entertain a lot of resistance.
"Hence, I think, because this is the origin of totalitarianism, not in our outside world, where it's menacing enough, but within our own minds, the struggle to throw off this servility is the precondition for any struggle for liberty, whether intellectual or personal or moral." - Christopher Hitchens
Encapsulated in the above quote and the rest of this video clip is the key to human emancipation. I've seen many Hitchens talks but this clip is truly stirring.
I think he said Nietzschean, not nechian. Of or pertaining to the philosophy of Friederick Nietzsche, German philosopher of the 19th century, who developed the concept of the "will to power" and the "Ubermensch."
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The idea that man made God makes of man a god. Atheism is just a cute way of deifying man, which explains why Soviet atheists could 60 million human beings without conscience, and why Maoist atheists could kill between 80 and 100 million human beings and never feel a twinge of conscience. When man becomes God, hide yourselves in the hills for bloodshed will surely follow. Atheism is completely intolerant of other paradigms of existence. Hitchens even characterizes himself as an anti-theist.
Perhaps you're right the Soviets and Maoists made gods of their leaders and took a religious pride in not questioning the orders given down by celestial dictators, but that is not an indictment against atheism, it is an example of why unquestioned dogmatism and faith despite evidence and submission of the secular humanist impulse to divine dictates is evil. Theism is evil, not atheism.
Atheism is not a way of deifying man. an atheist stand point simply says there is no god. It also means fundamentally that man is not god either, and we should not act as if any man was god. The fact that stalin and mao were able to step into "gods" place and rule as if they were gods, unquestionable and infallible authorities is an indictment of THEISM and not atheism. If as a believer you think that no belief in god = no conscience or empathy, IT INDICATES THAT YOU ARE LACKING THOSE QUALITIES.
Those millions of deaths were not the result of Soviets/Maoists being atheists. The problem is systems of belief, scriptures and doctrines which encourage violence and subservience. Religions have these things; atheism has essentially no content and definitely nothing that encourages violence or servitude. Okay?
@Boy192 its pretty much the same reason religion causes bad shit to happen so the way there arguing against maoists and soviets is the same reason we argue against religion.
No, it's not the same reason. Atheists condemn religions because they _systematically_ encourage and pressure ordinary people to carry out acts of violence: "stone homos, adulterers, disobedient kids, death for apostasy" etc. Atheism is not a means of guidance or pressure, it has no behavioural requirements or obligations. So religious proponents are making an incorrect comparison by saying "well Stalin was a murderer, and he was an atheist, so atheism is evil too." They're not comparable.
@otaycec No, atheism is not just a "cute way of defying man" its a way of expressing your disbelief in anything theistic. Why would it be a way of defying man? I could buy defying god (if it was coming from someone so brainwashed they thought you would be defying good by not believing in such a thing) But defying man, nah that i don't see as either logical nor relevant.
Just reading a few of the comments here. Right thinking people should, if only in a small way, be politically active in fighting for the internet to be free and unrestricted in every corner of the world.
But what about criminals and others looking for a way to either justify or forgive their crimes? Or consider those with a political agenda in search of voters indolent enough not to notice the cuckold. Or the sophists and self-promoters like Sharpton, Haggard, or Phelps, that are just trying to make a living as entertainers with no talent or material in need of an audience deluded enough to make believe they're benefitting by being there.
Certainly religion is useful for all of these folks.
Have you ever watched the show First 48? It is a series of mini-documentaries of actual murder investigations. It is extremely disheartening to see actual interviews with real murder suspects as they confess to their crimes, but claim they were possessed by demons and that the demons caused them to commit the murder. Absolutely disgraceful.
There's hope however. I just got an email this morning from a young man in Iran that wants to discuss religion but is frightened to do so in public. The net is going to make it harder and harder for cultures like the one in Iran from controlling the mindset of their population. I get the feeling what we're seeing today is it's death rattle. Religion depends on a critical mass large enough to reassure people of its credibility. Like a black hole; religion evaporates faster as it shrinks.
I don't think that is the case. My father is from Iran, just visited there a few months ago during the protests, and I am sparsely able to stay in contact with my family over there through Facebook.
All a regime has to do to retain absolute power in the age of the internet is to simply exert that absolute power. Double down on tyranny, in essence. The China and North Korea model, to put it another way. Iran may end up going in that direction. To say this is hope is, I think, premature.
Iran is a case in point. Sure, they can use force, but they can't do it secretly any more. We are just one cleverly designed web site away from having a global meta-government--where a significant fraction of the world's people participate in addressing the global political issues collectively in a forum designed to focus and harvest our analysis into an agenda that all governments will ignore at their financial peril. Collectively, we have very fat wallet. And that's all they really want.
Great fan of Hitchens that I am I must point out that Ayn Rand is NOT a right winger or conservative. She constantly points out that Objectivists are Radicals for Capitalism. Also Objectivists like John Ridpath and Leonard Peikoff have lectures out that harpoon Nietszche his hilarious anti-Christianity quotes aside.
wanker4761, (feels silly to type "wanker!" lol) thanks for the info re: Rand. However, doesn't it sound funny to you, "radicals for capitalism?" To me, it is an oxymoron; growth cannot occur with capitalism; it is bound to ultimately fail, and keeps the masses oppressed. So in what sense is it a "radical" monetary system? To be pro-capitalism, is really to be pro- status quo. Hardly "radical." Or maybe I am missing something. . . .
I can see why the elite call Christianity the religion of slaves. Life is mean, survival of the fittest. The strong eat the weak. When the rich eat the poor and then crap them out, christanity comes along & tells the poor that they are OK, The mean will get puinished in a afterlife that there is no proof of. Just be happy eating crap & when you die you'll be with jesus. That sounds great for the rich. Dont kill the rich, just be happy with your poo eating life, believe in this fantasy afterlife
@Nades129 Lol Napolean was an Idiot and any one who believes thats a moron, Napoleons poor murdered the rich in France, I guess there's a lot of Nazis in here not reading their history books but burning them. The poor always murder the rich when the rich push to far.
@kevinTurner187 The poor in France, though, were also rebelling against the Church. They didn't just kill the King. They were stringing up priests left and right.
@Nades129 I'm an atheist and I have yet to murder the rich. You're not giving people enough credit to decent behavior (or well... to what I consider good behavior).
I clearly state I am a christian on my webpage so I am not the representative of atheism. I also clearly state in many places I am a radical behaviorist so I offend both the Christians and the radical behaviorists equally.
My apologies, I misread one of your posts, & I have not seen your webpage. I would never intentional want to misrepresent your stance or beliefs, again my apologies.
It does make more sense in light of that bit of information, why your views are as they are.
I would hope that you would be a seeker of truth. If so, you are in fine company, if not psa 53:1 (or 14:1 if you prefer) minus god & plus "truth" of course.
Num 31:18-35 methods for judgement of murders does not make the judge a murderer, nor does cities of refuge make God unjust. Exo. 21:20 I'll admit that is a tough one on the 1 to 2 day affect of beating. Got any info. on what the slave does to deserve beatings? Gen 7:4 Let us assume all will die due to sin & they were doing horrible stuff. Seems right to me especially since we have no evidence of Noah sacrificing as society likely would have ended his life for such an action. Freedom was gained.
How about what one does to deserve being a slave!!! What a question ABA, come on! You said you wanted evidence. I rattled off a considerable number of instances where god both killed & sanctioned or ordered murder, rape, pedophilia, & slavery. The scripture @ num 31:18 is not the judgment of a murderer, it is the command given to the men (31:17)- 'kill every man and boy & every non-virgin woman (18) & take all the "little ones" among the women.' this is murder, pedophilia, & rape.
No, you see pedophilia and rape, but it isn't there. Murder occurs in war, but we don't call it murder as it's a war.
If I am poor and starving I can work for Enron and lose my shirt with those unrighteous pricks or I can be a servant / slave of another to receive the benefits of work.
What's it take to be a slave? is a honest question to answer it because American & Egyptian slavery are condemned according to Exodus 21:16.
If you decide to quote scriptures as an attack against Islam and atheism, then you've just committed logical suicide.
Anyone even remotely familiar with the Bible could throw a million examples of god-endorsed murder, rape, desecration, slavery, mutilation, misogyny, racism, and general Dark-Age morality.
As opposed to more... American values that many atheists hold close, which is; to not be a douchebag.
I'd rather respond to you than ABAisSCIENCE, because you've pretty much said what I wanted to say, albeit in a slightly different manner.
Considering that ABA has so far been civil in this discussion, I have no intention to voice my confusion in a way that I kind of want to. But frankly, how did we get from discussing the founding fathers' intentions as to religious influence in the USA to a "coalition" of sorts between Muslims and atheists?
Aside from the "missing link" between Muslims and atheists I'm kind of missing in ABA's comment, atheists as a philosophical and ideological community do not endorse Sharia Law and its tenets of barbaric punishments especially of, but not limited to, women.
Quite the contrary. Atheists, by definition, abhor "laws" like that that are founded on ancient, religious beliefs. An atheist's dismissive stance on religion is not limited to Christianity.
There are no cases of God endorsed murder, rape, slavery, mutilation, misogyny, or dark ages morality.
The Bible gives more rights to women than the summation of all other documents prior to 1930 A.D. & that is for the Torah written in 1,400 B.C.
War does not negate the condemnation of killing. Enemies are to be destroyed in war. I believe Canaanites had 40 yrs to get away from their destruction.
Funny how atheists can't refrain from being douchebags towards others in these conversations.
gen 19:26- lev 10:2- 1chr 2:3- lev:25:44- num 31:18-35 exo 21:20; and lets not forget gen 7:4.
I really don't get why you are posting these things that anyone can prove false, but its not making you look good, and by claiming that you are an atheist you are making everyone of us look bad. We are the most educated and reasonable of people. Stop trying to make us look bad.
Gen 19:26 Lot's wife looking back is not a murder as God put a death sentence on all. Will you claim a tree falling on you is murder by God? Lev 10:2 God holding a high standard on priests is like saying the Catholic priests who abused children should be judged harsher for the image they're on this Earth & I'm for that. 1 Chr 2:3 Can you tell me how this murder took place or are you condemning God for a heart attack? Slaves are set free on yr of jubilee so there is not eternal slave family.
(lev 25:44) 'as for the slave you took from "the nations around you", if these have offspring, they (the children) must become your "possession" (46) "and you must pass them on as an inheritance to your sons after you as a possession"; (ASV)- "FOR EVER"; (NASB)- "AS PERMANENT SLAVES"; & the King James Version (KJV) says, "they shall be your bondmen for ever"
These are the verses that had the colored slaves of America being whipped & traded, families pulled apart and such. Your god, mind you.
& if a tree is pushed on a person, it is at the least willful neglect. God killed those two@lev 10, but look@ what I've found to be one of the most repulsive scriptures in the cannon, 2kings 6:28-30. THIS IS WHO YOU CLAIM TO WORSHIP!!! What was their penalty? Look@ gen 38:9. How do you reconcile these things? ONE CAN CONSPIRE TO, BOIL, AND THEN EAT THEIR BABY BUT NOT BE KILLED, YET IF ONE MASTURBATES YOU DIE?!?!
1chr 2:3 says 'god put him to death' it doesn't state how, just that god did it.
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God kills all of us if you reject Him as Matthew 10:28 is His perogative to destroy your second eternal body & your soul giving you no chance for a second resurrection. Work out your salvation with fear & trembling according to Psalms 51:17 in the ashes of another sacrifice by Jesus.
Blame tree falling & heart attacks on God if you so choose, but that is not murder unless you are insane. A bear killing people is not God's murder of another individual unless you got some strange evidence.
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Honestly, you think that 2 Kings 6:28-30 is a condemnation of God? You my friend are an idiot. What does Joseph avoiding sex with a married woman have to do with masturbation? Nothing.
You need to stick to one topic and just debate that with me to note you can't even hold your logic on even one topic with me as you have no logic at all.
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Leviticus 25:10 "Consecrate the 50th yr and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants."
Slaves for life in verse 44 is 50 years and that is a life back then, but it is not a hold of all descendants for all time like the USA as Jubilee is coming and the previous verses will take affect. The Jew is a slave or servant for 7 yrs. Big difference and not a lifetime.
I'm for voting in atheistic societies allowing worship of Jesus Christ in private. Problem is foolish atheists hold hands with Muslims allowing them to splash acid on preteen girls, beat their wives, & kill people on the street with no consequences. They accept Sharia Law so that any case going to the federal courts is rushed in the Sharia court to force the government to take Islamic rule & allow continual abuse all the day long.
I'll take a Christian U.S.A. over the atheist Europe any day.
let me guess, you are talking about countries like saudi arabia? egypt? iran?
well, as far as the first two go, i have news for you. the US government considers egypt and saudi arabia allies. those countries have millions in the US economy. christianity has nothing to do with it.
and as an atheist i equally despise the christian bigots and the muslim criminals. there is no differense in my mind
Men are wicked, but Muslims splash acid on preteen girls and marry preteen girls.
The difference is the courts of the Middle East make preteen girls pay hundreds of dollars to divorce their husbands and do not prosecute the males who splash acid on the preteen girls.
I'll take the atheist or Christian USA over the Muslim Europe that is coming any day. I know that, but it wouldn't hurt if the USA made positive sure they didn't end up with the Muslim USA as it is still on the table.
Liste , I don't need you explaining to me why I as a human being have the need to hope for an afterlife. Of course I do (i'd rather there be a afterlife as low as the odds are of that happening) then just die and get buried six-feet deep. Hitchens explained this perfectly. There are Atheists who wish it was true but just can't believe it or have faith in it. THAT'S ME. Then there Anti-theists like Hitchens who don't want it to be true. NOT ME.
Why would you rather there be an afterlife than you just dying? You present that as though it's an obvious preference, but fail to explain why it should be. You seem to assume a lot of people share your view here, a lot of people who aren't mouth-breathing idiots.
You little shit.....where do you mutants like you come from. I don't explain myself to you.
I explained myself perfectly, why would I not want for there to be an afterlife. It's the same as me wanting to be immortal and live forever......OBVIOIUSLY. With that said, i'm aware of the odds of it not happening and have no faith.
Now go back to the cave you crawled out of mutant.
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The Question:
Pure chance or doeth God have a sense of humor?
The USA was created by Christians, who looked to escape from religious tyranny & now have no God over them. North Korea who looked to escape from religion, period, by atheists ended up in complete tyranny.
Now the Answer:
See Malachi for the answer & know that only "self knowledge" is required for the correct sacrifice per Psalms 51:17.
Communism tried to leave religion behind and look at Korea, China, and Russia.
The USA was created by Christians, who looked to escape from religious tyranny & now have no God over them. North Korea who looked to escape from religion, period, by atheists ended up in complete tyranny.
Quite the contrary. The founding fathers of the United States were not christians, at least not practicing ones.
They wanted the US to have a secular government, a nation that would, in its structure, not be influenced by ANY religion, while still allowing its citizens to practice their religion in freedom.
The US today, however, turns out to be a country with a large part of the population being christian.
Allah's spirit choked Muhammed so he would do the will of Allah. This is in stark contrast to the angels in the Bible saying, "Fear not."
Why did Muhammed, peace be upon him per Matthew 10:28, thigh a 6 yr old & consumate a marriage with a 9 yr old whose early blood letting is in question for Aisha was barren which is the medical consequence for repeated early violation?
Why spread a new religion by the sword to make second beast per Revelations 13:10? Why do atheist shake hands with it?
Revelation 13:10, 'The captive are meant to be such. People who kill with sword are to be killed with sword, "Here is where it means the endurance & faith of the holy ones"
What does any of that have to do with what you were saying? Random scripture dropping makes you look less credible.
The 2nd beast will be identified by 666 supposedly.
Greek letters can be #s, but why make χξϛʹ be 666?
Rev. 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding number the multitude of the 2nd beast; for it is the multitude from 1 man; & his multitude is 'in the name of allah.'"
666 was actually 'besm allah.'
See "Zola Levitt with Walid Sheobat - Mark of the Beast"
["Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding number the multitude of the 2nd beast; for it is the multitude from 1 man; & his multitude is 'in the name of allah.'"]-ABA
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."-KJV
"Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man it is, and its number [is] 666."-YLT
"Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six."-ASV
"Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."-NASB
4 different translations, not one mention of "allah". I'm against religion because its made up, it is looking like your argument is made up too. Please explain.
Greek letters can be #s, but why make χξϛʹ be 666?
Rev. 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding number the multitude of the 2nd beast; for it is the multitude from 1 man; & his multitude is 'in the name of allah.'"
666 was actually 'besm allah.'
To calculate is to count or number and to number is to give the answer of the multitude or gathering.
See "Zola Levitt with Walid Sheobat - Mark of the Beast."
You are actively putting faith in the words of this ex-PLO terrorist? Here's something to think about; the book of Revelation was written in Patmos, and completed by 96 C.E. by the Apostle John. Roman Emperor, Caesar Nero, was born December 5, 37. In 64, Nero charges the christians with arson, and commences to viciously torture them.
Interestingly enough, the mark of the beast spells out his name. Coincidence?
Before I was Atheist, I was pursuing my Doctorate in religious philosophy...
I found the words: " superstition and ignorance will attribute coincedence to divine intervention out of their desire to do so" etched in my dog's dump.
Nope. Your dog must be eating that NutraScience dog food! Its whole grain goodness & blend of essential vitamins made the worms intelligent. It's quite normal for them to act that way. I fed my dog Wheaties & the worms formed his poo into foot balls. Kids were always asking to borrow them. I'd be all like, "Get the hell out of my yard!" I finally gave in, but their parents started writing letters & complaining. Talk about being ungrateful! Those worms worked hard replicating the laces & such...
And don't tell me that it is in the Septuagint or Alexandrian version, I'm exceedingly well versed.
Why would anyone have to make up anything about religion? Each & every one of them prove themselves false! The proof is in their very pages. If I have falsely accused you of being a liar, please show your evidence. I am a true skeptic, I will verify & apologize whenever I am wrong. A few web links would help your cause. Please double check them so as to not disprove yourself by via error.
Faith is belief without evidence. Atheism does not have faith because atheists ask for evidence first before any one of many possible explanations are accepted (or even brought under serious consideration).
Atheists are NOT remarkable because they "say there is no god", but because they have ask, "Now, why did we say there is a god, again?" The answer is one of the very necessity of consideration.
The burden of proof is on the theist's side. There is no "great nothing" in atheism, you don't have to have any sort of faith, etc.. the "Atheism is a religion" line is quite frankly overused and embarrassingly misguided.
None whatsoever, for my part, at least, any more than I have faith in the present theory of gravity. If I am presented with evidence of a god, I am not going to close my ears and stubbornly deny it. I have no stock in there NOT being a god: I just don't think there is one.
Indeed. It dosent take faith to believe something that has very stong evidence or proof. Do you have faith in car too? No, you dont, because you understand how it works. You dont need magical explanation for cars capability to move.
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It takes a lot of faith to be an atheist, to believe no God exists and to try and prove God doesnt exist! Buddhists believe if you say a mantra eventually you will become one with the Great Nothing! Atheists have a mantra too there is no God they say! Therefore, Buddhism is a religion and believe in nothing is possible after achieving nirvana, atheists believe in no God and when you die there is nothing! Conclusion atheists are religious!
Takes faith? There is no proof of existence of any god, or no proof of existence of anything supernatural. Atheist understands religions simply as human phenomena.
Like somekind of miracle witnessed by many people. There is no such a thing. There are only stories. Bible is no proof of anything supernatural, it can be understood as a human creation. Like many old myths which people have all around the world.
Why are you not believing in the celestial teapot ? It must take you a lot of faith. Why are you not believing in Zeus, Odin and Shiva ? Are you making a religion of not believing in those things ? It take no faith to lack believes in the pink invisible unicorn, the celestial teapot, the protestant's God, the catholic's God, the muslim's God, the jew's God, in Odin, in Zeus, in Jupiter, in Shiva etc.
Broadly an evidence is something that can be measured, quantified, qualified, observed objectively, something that is consistent with other evidences and something that allow to determine the truth of an assertion. The fact that you feel Jesus in your heart is not an evidence that God exist. Some peoples feel dolphins, spirit, aliens, demons or gods communicating with them or making them feel things. Your personal fantasies have no priority on the fantasies of others.
Neither will I be convinced of anytihng in sense of "ultimate truth". Im open to idea of that we might have meaning to ourselves other than this physical world.
cupocity303 - sure, so long as you aren't a part of a religious cult, doing their bidding and giving them $, i think you are doing fine :> ! simple hoping without being conned by those who say they know "for sure" sounds okay to me!
Hoping and actually believing are much different concepts. We all have a certain hope for an afterlife, it has nearly become a part of our human condition. But believing it is true is no proof of its validity. Whether there is or is not an afterlife is irrelevant in this life - that's why it's called the AFTERlife.
I think in hoping for an afterlife, it refutes the idea of haste as a necessity in this life. I think it relaxes the mind when it should be craving knowledge. I think it can be compared to hoping for sunshine in a thunder storm. It will not change your mood about the current weather. However, I understand it is tempting to crave more. Human beings are greedy, hence we even have an idea of an afterlife. We can not appreciate what we have, we must only hope for more...
I'll add to that Original Sin which is a doctrine borne of a fictional/methaphorical symbolic creation idea, very common in the pre-scientific world, that places guilt on the unborn.
Well Mr Hitchens so you don't want "mammals made of the same flesh" telling you they know God and you don't because you find it "deeply offensive to the rationalist mind", and I say all of this shows you have an egoistic and narrowly materialistic idea of things and as for "deeply offensive to the rationalist mind" let me remind you there's a very rich tradition of great rationalists believing in God with Descartes, Spinoza and Leibniz, and North Korea like heaven just isn't worth commenting.
I don't believe that Hitchens is saying that the claim to know the will of God is wrong because it's offensive. Rather, I believe he sees it as wrong and offensive because of the combined arrogance and impossibility of the claim. There's a distinction to be made, however, between the knowing of God on a personal level and claiming to know God and what God wants and asserting the right to tell others what to do on that basis. By what right does any human say that they are privy to such knowledge?
somebody ought to tell that friggin baby to be quiet..
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JezusSlave 1 month ago in playlist Atheism
1:02. Someone brought a baby to this? Good move.
freaky108 1 month ago
Could someone please explain to me Hitchens' point at 8:07? Unfortunately I'm missing what he's trying to convey.
TheLiteraturist 3 months ago
@TheLiteraturist
I think what he meant is that it would be logical if an evil god were to demand that every thinking being should worship, praise and ultimately fear him. Those same demands would be rather perverse if this god was a benign one.
Buccaneer1968 1 month ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens (Miscellaneous)
@TheLiteraturist I think what he's trying to say that it would be at least understandable, if God exists, that God would then be diabolical. If he did what he has "done" out of genuine goodness, that would mean our concept of what is good is completely flawed, and any sort of humanistic morality would be instantly obliterated.
TheSittingArchitect 1 month ago
Ayn Rand was an antitheist like hitchens, id say
unfad1ng 4 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens.
Hitchens reminds me of one of those traveling evangelical preachers that used to go from town to town whipping up the faithful into a frenzy then relieving them of their money. Get well, soon.
thethoughtsofme 4 months ago
@thethoughtsofme you're an idiot.
papelhojas 2 months ago
my speakers are turned all the way up and i still cannot hear it.... damn you uploader
SanguineBullet667 5 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens.
I never thought about "heaven" in that way but it does make more sense given how unhappy christian fundies are despite thinking about it
MamaMario13 5 months ago
Why is it that people like this are shoved underground, while people like glen beck are idolized? it feels like the world is anti-human, like people just love destruction and hatred and inequality!!!!!!!!!!!
conman2317 6 months ago
@conman2317 well he is dying of cancer at the moment and he cant speak
MamaMario13 5 months ago
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youneekk 6 months ago
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca
holio84 7 months ago 4
So, atheists of the US right caused the ongoing Fall of America, says an anti-Theist.
Ask yourself, why have so many atheist coups been ruinous? Why do they use deified Great leaders and states? Why are so many totalitarian, Draconian, puppeting, pagan fakers? Why hasn't CH noticed?
Is the answer, as anti-Theist Rand states: her only influence was the authoritarian, slaver, anti-Theist demagogocrat Aristotle and his Secular stealth coups: blind trust of state with its surveillance by spooks?
cloudbusterman 8 months ago
@cloudbusterman He often observes that people have a tendency towards hero-worship. I've heard several of his talks and seen it written in God Is Not Great and Letters to a Young Contrarian. I'm certain Hitchens wouldn't blame the atrocities of these so called "atheists coups" on their atheism. They must be taken on a case by case basis. He might choose to blame Objectivists or Stalinists or Amoral Capitalists but it's incidental that they are atheistical groups.
PapaWilk 8 months ago
250 people are Randroids.
dhx84 8 months ago
Ayn Rand represents certain of the ideas of Nietzsche debauched by an inferior intellect almost to the point of imbecility. As she's read today by American "libertarians" and such, her incoherent "philosophy" is nothing more than a flimsy excuse for the cult of unadulterated greed and misanthropic callousness.
ScinLaeca358 9 months ago 5
“Fear was the first thing on earth to make gods” - Lucretius
stranger201 9 months ago
Why the fuck did someone take a baby to this!?
gregapage 9 months ago 5
@gregapage as an atheist the baby is more qualified to be there than most.
alienlifeform11 9 months ago 2
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hitchens fails in logic again.... HITCHFAIL!
calumacky 10 months ago
@calumacky Interesting assertion...actually, no it's not...I'm sure you cant prove it true
MrTruthAddict 9 months ago
@calumacky I know! He should read the bible and realize giants, talking snakes, unicorns and gods are real. What an idiot.
alienlifeform11 9 months ago 2
250 people are cunts.
LondonPride25 10 months ago 4
The only trouble I have is I refuse to believe that this is just it I do not and will not believe that when we die that is it! I do believe in an almighty/ force but that force/ almighty is my own not somebody else's image! Otherwise Some of you seem to drawn into Hitchen's words only through his well spoken manner but thats all he is sorry Chris!
debrick2490 11 months ago
@debrick2490 Have you ever seen somebody die? Have you seen them go cold and fade away?
There is no soul.
10000s of corpses have been examined from head to toe and nothing has been found...
Surely that is convincing to a rational person.
Fyapowar 11 months ago
@Fyapowar Whats rational about wanting nothing after death?
debrick2490 11 months ago
@debrick2490 What's rational about believing you will be in a place of eternal happiness with all your loved ones (at least the ones who believed the same BS as you did)? You may WISH this to be true, but it is not rational to actually think it is. It's insane, literally. It's ridiculous and childish. It's called wishful thinking. All the evidence points to a natural and materialistic world, and we live our lives based on evidence. Period.
xmaneater 10 months ago
A Christopher Hitchens lecture. Probably the last place on earth you should bring a baby. lol
chron5007 1 year ago 3
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@chron5007 ...or the first, if you agree with him. xD
Nerdsugi 10 months ago
You would not have to include Ayn Rand and most conservatives would violently oppose that inclusion but it fits his particular point so he does it.
equsnarnd 1 year ago
Greenspan is not an unrepentant follower of Ayn Rand. He abandoned those principles when he took the job as Federal Reserve chairman. Rand is not Nietzscheian in any sense of the word. Hitchens needs to read Rand and not listen to what others have to say about her.
equsnarnd 1 year ago
Good point about the North Korea thing. I watched a documentary about NK and they traveled there and talked to people. At one point the reporter asked a family they were with if Kim Jung Il could be wrong, and all they got back was utter confusion. You might imagine the same response from a Christian who had been raised in complete seclusion from differing thought. It's EVIL to teach people not to question. As we can see, they often grow incapable of it.
Loustrikesagain 1 year ago
Ive been listening to Hitchens for a long time, but I dont understand what he means when he says that that paradise would be like a totalitarian state and it would be worse if it was benign. Does he mean that because the deity is saying "its for your own good" that that makes it worse? if that is the case I would agree... but in any other context it would seem better than eternity in hell fire... can someone explain in case Im missing something
cuevasdecamuy 1 year ago
@cuevasdecamuy
Well, yeah... your second last statement is the core of it... even for North Korea, serving the leader by his side is a better scenario than, say, being imprisoned for life, tortured every single day. But you won't have the dilemma after you're dead or exit it by a slim chance, so at least this grotesque landscape is not permanent.
In Christianity/Islam, you have a North Korea you have no escape from anywhere in the universe, and even after death. => It's great it's not true.
boenrobot 8 months ago
Who the hell brings their baby to a Hitchens lecture? Ffs get a baby sitter! lol, parents r starting to shit me a little bit
aaronsdavis 1 year ago 3
@aaronsdavis - Better than leaving the baby alone don't you think. Not everyone is graced with the blessings of babysitters.
TheSpankymonkey 1 year ago
@TheSpankymonkey yeh, those Hitchens lectures are full of welfare mothers who cant afford baby sitters. No i think the person probably could afford one, but dosnt give a shit about annoying everyone.
aaronsdavis 1 year ago
@aaronsdavis "No i think the person probably could afford one, but dosnt give a shit about annoying everyone." - Do you actually even have kids? Money very rarely is the issue with babysitters. You know, like them actually turning up, trusting them, finding one and all manner of things. It is a poor show when you attribute something to malice which could equally be explained by something else. Being annoyed at children is pretty silly imo. Maybe your words say more about you than her.
TheSpankymonkey 1 year ago 2
@TheSpankymonkey lol we are actually arguing about the kid in the audience crying...im jumping off. ps I dont care if u cant find a baby sitter...if u have kids, its MEANT to be a sacrifice...one option would be to stay home with your baby, and miss out.
aaronsdavis 1 year ago
@aaronsdavis naw u can take ur baby where u please ur just a fuckin idiot
HoustoNawfside 7 months ago
Everyone is spiritual in some way. You don't need to believe in god to be spiritual. I think the main fear of people who are religious, is that atheism would destroy their spirits. Until Atheists find a way to help people cope with this, they will entertain a lot of resistance.
ActraiserIII 1 year ago
"Hence, I think, because this is the origin of totalitarianism, not in our outside world, where it's menacing enough, but within our own minds, the struggle to throw off this servility is the precondition for any struggle for liberty, whether intellectual or personal or moral." - Christopher Hitchens
Encapsulated in the above quote and the rest of this video clip is the key to human emancipation. I've seen many Hitchens talks but this clip is truly stirring.
BlueNile123 1 year ago
My dick itches
dirtydonki 1 year ago
I think he said Nietzschean, not nechian. Of or pertaining to the philosophy of Friederick Nietzsche, German philosopher of the 19th century, who developed the concept of the "will to power" and the "Ubermensch."
sexyprof63 1 year ago
there are no aetheist suicide bombers...muppet
georgieisbobo 1 year ago 4
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The idea that man made God makes of man a god. Atheism is just a cute way of deifying man, which explains why Soviet atheists could 60 million human beings without conscience, and why Maoist atheists could kill between 80 and 100 million human beings and never feel a twinge of conscience. When man becomes God, hide yourselves in the hills for bloodshed will surely follow. Atheism is completely intolerant of other paradigms of existence. Hitchens even characterizes himself as an anti-theist.
otaycec 1 year ago
Perhaps you're right the Soviets and Maoists made gods of their leaders and took a religious pride in not questioning the orders given down by celestial dictators, but that is not an indictment against atheism, it is an example of why unquestioned dogmatism and faith despite evidence and submission of the secular humanist impulse to divine dictates is evil. Theism is evil, not atheism.
darkmiles22 1 year ago 14
Atheism is not a way of deifying man. an atheist stand point simply says there is no god. It also means fundamentally that man is not god either, and we should not act as if any man was god. The fact that stalin and mao were able to step into "gods" place and rule as if they were gods, unquestionable and infallible authorities is an indictment of THEISM and not atheism. If as a believer you think that no belief in god = no conscience or empathy, IT INDICATES THAT YOU ARE LACKING THOSE QUALITIES.
2ravens2wolves 1 year ago 2
Those millions of deaths were not the result of Soviets/Maoists being atheists. The problem is systems of belief, scriptures and doctrines which encourage violence and subservience. Religions have these things; atheism has essentially no content and definitely nothing that encourages violence or servitude. Okay?
Boy192 1 year ago 3
@Boy192 its pretty much the same reason religion causes bad shit to happen so the way there arguing against maoists and soviets is the same reason we argue against religion.
patrickledford420 1 year ago
@pat
No, it's not the same reason. Atheists condemn religions because they _systematically_ encourage and pressure ordinary people to carry out acts of violence: "stone homos, adulterers, disobedient kids, death for apostasy" etc. Atheism is not a means of guidance or pressure, it has no behavioural requirements or obligations. So religious proponents are making an incorrect comparison by saying "well Stalin was a murderer, and he was an atheist, so atheism is evil too." They're not comparable.
Boy192 1 year ago 7
@otaycec And "God" kills over 2 million people.
philster61 1 year ago
@otaycec No, atheism is not just a "cute way of defying man" its a way of expressing your disbelief in anything theistic. Why would it be a way of defying man? I could buy defying god (if it was coming from someone so brainwashed they thought you would be defying good by not believing in such a thing) But defying man, nah that i don't see as either logical nor relevant.
zaphr89 1 year ago
@zaphr89 i'm with you mate but he said 'deifying' not 'defying'. it doesn't make him any less a loon though
PlanetBongoSan 1 year ago
can someone correct my spelling of nechian. I have no idea what a nechian is and would like to look it up :/
hardleecure 1 year ago
I think you mean Friedrich Nietzsche? Neitzschian?
Boy192 1 year ago 4
...C H should've asked that idiot with the baby to leave..
constanzavictrix 1 year ago
Just reading a few of the comments here. Right thinking people should, if only in a small way, be politically active in fighting for the internet to be free and unrestricted in every corner of the world.
SteveArpo 2 years ago 5
Love the North Korea / Heaven analogy. Fantastic
joelmartens 2 years ago 9
But what about criminals and others looking for a way to either justify or forgive their crimes? Or consider those with a political agenda in search of voters indolent enough not to notice the cuckold. Or the sophists and self-promoters like Sharpton, Haggard, or Phelps, that are just trying to make a living as entertainers with no talent or material in need of an audience deluded enough to make believe they're benefitting by being there.
Certainly religion is useful for all of these folks.
ananiasacts 2 years ago 4
Have you ever watched the show First 48? It is a series of mini-documentaries of actual murder investigations. It is extremely disheartening to see actual interviews with real murder suspects as they confess to their crimes, but claim they were possessed by demons and that the demons caused them to commit the murder. Absolutely disgraceful.
ls1z28chris 2 years ago
There's hope however. I just got an email this morning from a young man in Iran that wants to discuss religion but is frightened to do so in public. The net is going to make it harder and harder for cultures like the one in Iran from controlling the mindset of their population. I get the feeling what we're seeing today is it's death rattle. Religion depends on a critical mass large enough to reassure people of its credibility. Like a black hole; religion evaporates faster as it shrinks.
ananiasacts 2 years ago 2
I don't think that is the case. My father is from Iran, just visited there a few months ago during the protests, and I am sparsely able to stay in contact with my family over there through Facebook.
All a regime has to do to retain absolute power in the age of the internet is to simply exert that absolute power. Double down on tyranny, in essence. The China and North Korea model, to put it another way. Iran may end up going in that direction. To say this is hope is, I think, premature.
ls1z28chris 2 years ago
Iran is a case in point. Sure, they can use force, but they can't do it secretly any more. We are just one cleverly designed web site away from having a global meta-government--where a significant fraction of the world's people participate in addressing the global political issues collectively in a forum designed to focus and harvest our analysis into an agenda that all governments will ignore at their financial peril. Collectively, we have very fat wallet. And that's all they really want.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
why would anyone take their babies to this seminar.
HailRasec 2 years ago 3
...or to church. Same thing, isn't it?
AernoutMJC 2 years ago 3
Maybe she couldn't get a sitter....
Zookeeper1983 2 years ago
Hitchens has a great cognitive angle from which he approaches religion. He seems to have a very unique thinking style.
blaziermissy 2 years ago 10
Great fan of Hitchens that I am I must point out that Ayn Rand is NOT a right winger or conservative. She constantly points out that Objectivists are Radicals for Capitalism. Also Objectivists like John Ridpath and Leonard Peikoff have lectures out that harpoon Nietszche his hilarious anti-Christianity quotes aside.
wanker4761 2 years ago
wanker4761, (feels silly to type "wanker!" lol) thanks for the info re: Rand. However, doesn't it sound funny to you, "radicals for capitalism?" To me, it is an oxymoron; growth cannot occur with capitalism; it is bound to ultimately fail, and keeps the masses oppressed. So in what sense is it a "radical" monetary system? To be pro-capitalism, is really to be pro- status quo. Hardly "radical." Or maybe I am missing something. . . .
SweetDissident 2 years ago 2
It's a baby making noise.
LlortnA 2 years ago
the people you can hear yelling in the background are pissing me off, I would do anything for hitchens to speak at my uni and they're ruining it.
tolchock1984 2 years ago 7
I can see why the elite call Christianity the religion of slaves. Life is mean, survival of the fittest. The strong eat the weak. When the rich eat the poor and then crap them out, christanity comes along & tells the poor that they are OK, The mean will get puinished in a afterlife that there is no proof of. Just be happy eating crap & when you die you'll be with jesus. That sounds great for the rich. Dont kill the rich, just be happy with your poo eating life, believe in this fantasy afterlife
flubno 2 years ago 8
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich - Napoleon Bonaparte
Nades129 2 years ago 88
"Man shall never be free until the last king has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot
PinkandDeadly 2 years ago 120
@PinkandDeadly Who strangles the last king?
dmkramerica 1 year ago
@dmkramerica the natural world via gravity
capomatrice 1 year ago
@PinkandDeadly "Civilization will not attain perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest" - Émile Zola (disputably)
Morclaw 8 months ago
@Nades129 that is not the first quality quote i have heard from the peusdo-revolutionary french midget....
diceyLee 1 year ago
@Nades129 Lol Napolean was an Idiot and any one who believes thats a moron, Napoleons poor murdered the rich in France, I guess there's a lot of Nazis in here not reading their history books but burning them. The poor always murder the rich when the rich push to far.
kevinTurner187 1 year ago
@kevinTurner187
It wasn't the poor who were the architects of the french revolution...
xxSilverPhinxx 1 year ago
@kevinTurner187 The poor in France, though, were also rebelling against the Church. They didn't just kill the King. They were stringing up priests left and right.
OgreVI 1 year ago
@OgreVI - Sounds fair enough to me.
TheSpankymonkey 1 year ago
@TheSpankymonkey Yeah, I always wondered if it was a character flaw in me that I couldn't muster much sympathy for them.
OgreVI 1 year ago
@OgreVI - Noooo noooo, you are just poor. That is all. haha.
TheSpankymonkey 1 year ago
@Nades129 : Also, it was possibly the main reason why slavery was possible in the US....
bersa888 1 year ago
@Nades129 I'm an atheist and I have yet to murder the rich. You're not giving people enough credit to decent behavior (or well... to what I consider good behavior).
MissyLKS8 11 months ago
That was an excellent analysis and statement with the exception of your ideal of survival of the fittest.
Most people have the wrong understanding of it anyway....even some biologists.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
I clearly state I am a christian on my webpage so I am not the representative of atheism. I also clearly state in many places I am a radical behaviorist so I offend both the Christians and the radical behaviorists equally.
Later.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
My apologies, I misread one of your posts, & I have not seen your webpage. I would never intentional want to misrepresent your stance or beliefs, again my apologies.
It does make more sense in light of that bit of information, why your views are as they are.
I would hope that you would be a seeker of truth. If so, you are in fine company, if not psa 53:1 (or 14:1 if you prefer) minus god & plus "truth" of course.
;)
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
Num 31:18-35 methods for judgement of murders does not make the judge a murderer, nor does cities of refuge make God unjust. Exo. 21:20 I'll admit that is a tough one on the 1 to 2 day affect of beating. Got any info. on what the slave does to deserve beatings? Gen 7:4 Let us assume all will die due to sin & they were doing horrible stuff. Seems right to me especially since we have no evidence of Noah sacrificing as society likely would have ended his life for such an action. Freedom was gained.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
How about what one does to deserve being a slave!!! What a question ABA, come on! You said you wanted evidence. I rattled off a considerable number of instances where god both killed & sanctioned or ordered murder, rape, pedophilia, & slavery. The scripture @ num 31:18 is not the judgment of a murderer, it is the command given to the men (31:17)- 'kill every man and boy & every non-virgin woman (18) & take all the "little ones" among the women.' this is murder, pedophilia, & rape.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
No, you see pedophilia and rape, but it isn't there. Murder occurs in war, but we don't call it murder as it's a war.
If I am poor and starving I can work for Enron and lose my shirt with those unrighteous pricks or I can be a servant / slave of another to receive the benefits of work.
What's it take to be a slave? is a honest question to answer it because American & Egyptian slavery are condemned according to Exodus 21:16.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
If you decide to quote scriptures as an attack against Islam and atheism, then you've just committed logical suicide.
Anyone even remotely familiar with the Bible could throw a million examples of god-endorsed murder, rape, desecration, slavery, mutilation, misogyny, racism, and general Dark-Age morality.
As opposed to more... American values that many atheists hold close, which is; to not be a douchebag.
Porion491 2 years ago 3
I'd rather respond to you than ABAisSCIENCE, because you've pretty much said what I wanted to say, albeit in a slightly different manner.
Considering that ABA has so far been civil in this discussion, I have no intention to voice my confusion in a way that I kind of want to. But frankly, how did we get from discussing the founding fathers' intentions as to religious influence in the USA to a "coalition" of sorts between Muslims and atheists?
Lumennon 2 years ago
Aside from the "missing link" between Muslims and atheists I'm kind of missing in ABA's comment, atheists as a philosophical and ideological community do not endorse Sharia Law and its tenets of barbaric punishments especially of, but not limited to, women.
Quite the contrary. Atheists, by definition, abhor "laws" like that that are founded on ancient, religious beliefs. An atheist's dismissive stance on religion is not limited to Christianity.
Lumennon 2 years ago
There are no cases of God endorsed murder, rape, slavery, mutilation, misogyny, or dark ages morality.
The Bible gives more rights to women than the summation of all other documents prior to 1930 A.D. & that is for the Torah written in 1,400 B.C.
War does not negate the condemnation of killing. Enemies are to be destroyed in war. I believe Canaanites had 40 yrs to get away from their destruction.
Funny how atheists can't refrain from being douchebags towards others in these conversations.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
gen 19:26- lev 10:2- 1chr 2:3- lev:25:44- num 31:18-35 exo 21:20; and lets not forget gen 7:4.
I really don't get why you are posting these things that anyone can prove false, but its not making you look good, and by claiming that you are an atheist you are making everyone of us look bad. We are the most educated and reasonable of people. Stop trying to make us look bad.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
Gen 19:26 Lot's wife looking back is not a murder as God put a death sentence on all. Will you claim a tree falling on you is murder by God? Lev 10:2 God holding a high standard on priests is like saying the Catholic priests who abused children should be judged harsher for the image they're on this Earth & I'm for that. 1 Chr 2:3 Can you tell me how this murder took place or are you condemning God for a heart attack? Slaves are set free on yr of jubilee so there is not eternal slave family.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
(lev 25:44) 'as for the slave you took from "the nations around you", if these have offspring, they (the children) must become your "possession" (46) "and you must pass them on as an inheritance to your sons after you as a possession"; (ASV)- "FOR EVER"; (NASB)- "AS PERMANENT SLAVES"; & the King James Version (KJV) says, "they shall be your bondmen for ever"
These are the verses that had the colored slaves of America being whipped & traded, families pulled apart and such. Your god, mind you.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
& if a tree is pushed on a person, it is at the least willful neglect. God killed those two@lev 10, but look@ what I've found to be one of the most repulsive scriptures in the cannon, 2kings 6:28-30. THIS IS WHO YOU CLAIM TO WORSHIP!!! What was their penalty? Look@ gen 38:9. How do you reconcile these things? ONE CAN CONSPIRE TO, BOIL, AND THEN EAT THEIR BABY BUT NOT BE KILLED, YET IF ONE MASTURBATES YOU DIE?!?!
1chr 2:3 says 'god put him to death' it doesn't state how, just that god did it.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
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God kills all of us if you reject Him as Matthew 10:28 is His perogative to destroy your second eternal body & your soul giving you no chance for a second resurrection. Work out your salvation with fear & trembling according to Psalms 51:17 in the ashes of another sacrifice by Jesus.
Blame tree falling & heart attacks on God if you so choose, but that is not murder unless you are insane. A bear killing people is not God's murder of another individual unless you got some strange evidence.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
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Honestly, you think that 2 Kings 6:28-30 is a condemnation of God? You my friend are an idiot. What does Joseph avoiding sex with a married woman have to do with masturbation? Nothing.
You need to stick to one topic and just debate that with me to note you can't even hold your logic on even one topic with me as you have no logic at all.
Try it unless your scared.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
You can't read. Personal attacks don't win debates they just end them. I hope that your god meets you when you die, you deserve it.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago 2
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Leviticus 25:10 "Consecrate the 50th yr and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants."
Slaves for life in verse 44 is 50 years and that is a life back then, but it is not a hold of all descendants for all time like the USA as Jubilee is coming and the previous verses will take affect. The Jew is a slave or servant for 7 yrs. Big difference and not a lifetime.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
I'm for voting in atheistic societies allowing worship of Jesus Christ in private. Problem is foolish atheists hold hands with Muslims allowing them to splash acid on preteen girls, beat their wives, & kill people on the street with no consequences. They accept Sharia Law so that any case going to the federal courts is rushed in the Sharia court to force the government to take Islamic rule & allow continual abuse all the day long.
I'll take a Christian U.S.A. over the atheist Europe any day.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
let me guess, you are talking about countries like saudi arabia? egypt? iran?
well, as far as the first two go, i have news for you. the US government considers egypt and saudi arabia allies. those countries have millions in the US economy. christianity has nothing to do with it.
and as an atheist i equally despise the christian bigots and the muslim criminals. there is no differense in my mind
avalsonline 2 years ago
Men are wicked, but Muslims splash acid on preteen girls and marry preteen girls.
The difference is the courts of the Middle East make preteen girls pay hundreds of dollars to divorce their husbands and do not prosecute the males who splash acid on the preteen girls.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
I'll take an Atheist USA over a religious USA any day
Galactu5 2 years ago
I'll take the atheist or Christian USA over the Muslim Europe that is coming any day. I know that, but it wouldn't hurt if the USA made positive sure they didn't end up with the Muslim USA as it is still on the table.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Liste , I don't need you explaining to me why I as a human being have the need to hope for an afterlife. Of course I do (i'd rather there be a afterlife as low as the odds are of that happening) then just die and get buried six-feet deep. Hitchens explained this perfectly. There are Atheists who wish it was true but just can't believe it or have faith in it. THAT'S ME. Then there Anti-theists like Hitchens who don't want it to be true. NOT ME.
So dont talk down to me like im religious loon.
cupocity303 2 years ago
Why would you rather there be an afterlife than you just dying? You present that as though it's an obvious preference, but fail to explain why it should be. You seem to assume a lot of people share your view here, a lot of people who aren't mouth-breathing idiots.
supruzr 2 years ago
You little shit.....where do you mutants like you come from. I don't explain myself to you.
I explained myself perfectly, why would I not want for there to be an afterlife. It's the same as me wanting to be immortal and live forever......OBVIOIUSLY. With that said, i'm aware of the odds of it not happening and have no faith.
Now go back to the cave you crawled out of mutant.
cupocity303 2 years ago
The odds against any type of afterlife are big, I'm not denying that. Which is why said I won't waiste my life having faith in it.
But I also said once I'm on my death bad dying I'm gonna hope there is something besides six feet under in dirt. Nothing wrong with that.
So no reason for you to talk to me as some elitist snob that I'm deceiving myself because I'm not.
Yes I called you a asswhip because you are one.....talking 100% certainty about anything is snobish.
cupocity303 2 years ago
I have a question that has nothing to do with god, belief in god or the possibility of an after life.
What exactly do you have against elitist?
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
No reason to get rude asswhipe. I'm not deceiving myself of anything.
So no reason to list the whole tooth fairy nonsene, you can save that for one of your religious people.......talking down to me like that.
cupocity303 2 years ago
USA was not "created by Christians"
most of the prominent founding fathers of the United States were deists.
Most, like Thomas Jefferson, were strongly opposed to organized religion and ridiculed it as irrational.
Above all, the founding fathers were secularists inspired by the ideals of the enlightenment, particularly by Baruch Spinoza.
largemoose 2 years ago 11
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Question:
Pure chance or doeth God have a sense of humor?
The USA was created by Christians, who looked to escape from religious tyranny & now have no God over them. North Korea who looked to escape from religion, period, by atheists ended up in complete tyranny.
Now the Answer:
See Malachi for the answer & know that only "self knowledge" is required for the correct sacrifice per Psalms 51:17.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
North Korea is not atheist. You've apparently never heard of Juche or Kim-il-sung-ism.
supruzr 2 years ago
Pure chance or doeth God have a sense of humor?
Communism tried to leave religion behind and look at Korea, China, and Russia.
The USA was created by Christians, who looked to escape from religious tyranny & now have no God over them. North Korea who looked to escape from religion, period, by atheists ended up in complete tyranny.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Quite the contrary. The founding fathers of the United States were not christians, at least not practicing ones.
They wanted the US to have a secular government, a nation that would, in its structure, not be influenced by ANY religion, while still allowing its citizens to practice their religion in freedom.
The US today, however, turns out to be a country with a large part of the population being christian.
Lumennon 2 years ago
You ever hear that statement that they came to escape religious persecution?
Turns out it is true.
You ever hear that statement they came to worship Jesus in the way they desired?
Turns out it is true.
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
Even if that WAS true, it does not explain the stance that most of the founding fathers had on Christianity.
Which was a rather "not-all-in-favor-of"-stance, frankly.
Lumennon 2 years ago
Allah's spirit choked Muhammed so he would do the will of Allah. This is in stark contrast to the angels in the Bible saying, "Fear not."
Why did Muhammed, peace be upon him per Matthew 10:28, thigh a 6 yr old & consumate a marriage with a 9 yr old whose early blood letting is in question for Aisha was barren which is the medical consequence for repeated early violation?
Why spread a new religion by the sword to make second beast per Revelations 13:10? Why do atheist shake hands with it?
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
["Why did Muhammed, peace be upon him per Matthew 10:28..."]
["Why spread a new religion by the sword to make second beast per Revelations 13:10?"]- ABA...
Matthew 10:28 does not say that.
Revelation 13:10, 'The captive are meant to be such. People who kill with sword are to be killed with sword, "Here is where it means the endurance & faith of the holy ones"
What does any of that have to do with what you were saying? Random scripture dropping makes you look less credible.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
1st beast from the sea is non-Arabic.
2nd beast from the ground is Arabic.
The 2nd beast will be identified by 666 supposedly.
Greek letters can be #s, but why make χξϛʹ be 666?
Rev. 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding number the multitude of the 2nd beast; for it is the multitude from 1 man; & his multitude is 'in the name of allah.'"
666 was actually 'besm allah.'
See "Zola Levitt with Walid Sheobat - Mark of the Beast"
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
["Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding number the multitude of the 2nd beast; for it is the multitude from 1 man; & his multitude is 'in the name of allah.'"]-ABA
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."-KJV
"Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man it is, and its number [is] 666."-YLT
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
"Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six."-ASV
"Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."-NASB
4 different translations, not one mention of "allah". I'm against religion because its made up, it is looking like your argument is made up too. Please explain.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
1st beast from sea is non-Arabic.
2nd beast from ground is Arabic.
Greek letters can be #s, but why make χξϛʹ be 666?
Rev. 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding number the multitude of the 2nd beast; for it is the multitude from 1 man; & his multitude is 'in the name of allah.'"
666 was actually 'besm allah.'
To calculate is to count or number and to number is to give the answer of the multitude or gathering.
See "Zola Levitt with Walid Sheobat - Mark of the Beast."
ABAisSCIENCE 2 years ago
You are actively putting faith in the words of this ex-PLO terrorist? Here's something to think about; the book of Revelation was written in Patmos, and completed by 96 C.E. by the Apostle John. Roman Emperor, Caesar Nero, was born December 5, 37. In 64, Nero charges the christians with arson, and commences to viciously torture them.
Interestingly enough, the mark of the beast spells out his name. Coincidence?
Before I was Atheist, I was pursuing my Doctorate in religious philosophy...
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
I found the words: " superstition and ignorance will attribute coincedence to divine intervention out of their desire to do so" etched in my dog's dump.
Coindidence?
blaziermissy 2 years ago 2
Nope. Your dog must be eating that NutraScience dog food! Its whole grain goodness & blend of essential vitamins made the worms intelligent. It's quite normal for them to act that way. I fed my dog Wheaties & the worms formed his poo into foot balls. Kids were always asking to borrow them. I'd be all like, "Get the hell out of my yard!" I finally gave in, but their parents started writing letters & complaining. Talk about being ungrateful! Those worms worked hard replicating the laces & such...
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
Thanks for this funny aversion to my point.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
And don't tell me that it is in the Septuagint or Alexandrian version, I'm exceedingly well versed.
Why would anyone have to make up anything about religion? Each & every one of them prove themselves false! The proof is in their very pages. If I have falsely accused you of being a liar, please show your evidence. I am a true skeptic, I will verify & apologize whenever I am wrong. A few web links would help your cause. Please double check them so as to not disprove yourself by via error.
TaurusCanser 2 years ago
ATBINTC
Faith is belief without evidence. Atheism does not have faith because atheists ask for evidence first before any one of many possible explanations are accepted (or even brought under serious consideration).
Atheists are NOT remarkable because they "say there is no god", but because they have ask, "Now, why did we say there is a god, again?" The answer is one of the very necessity of consideration.
InReasonWeTrust 3 years ago 3
Atheists don't TRY to prove god doesn't exist.
The burden of proof is on the theist's side. There is no "great nothing" in atheism, you don't have to have any sort of faith, etc.. the "Atheism is a religion" line is quite frankly overused and embarrassingly misguided.
superustipak 3 years ago 5
superustipak
the "Atheism is a religion" line is quite frankly overused and embarrassingly misguided
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So you have no faith in your atheist position?
AnnaAgainstAtheists 3 years ago
None whatsoever, for my part, at least, any more than I have faith in the present theory of gravity. If I am presented with evidence of a god, I am not going to close my ears and stubbornly deny it. I have no stock in there NOT being a god: I just don't think there is one.
GoblinXXX 3 years ago 2
Indeed. It dosent take faith to believe something that has very stong evidence or proof. Do you have faith in car too? No, you dont, because you understand how it works. You dont need magical explanation for cars capability to move.
Propaani 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It takes a lot of faith to be an atheist, to believe no God exists and to try and prove God doesnt exist! Buddhists believe if you say a mantra eventually you will become one with the Great Nothing! Atheists have a mantra too there is no God they say! Therefore, Buddhism is a religion and believe in nothing is possible after achieving nirvana, atheists believe in no God and when you die there is nothing! Conclusion atheists are religious!
ATBINTC 3 years ago
wrong.
superustipak 3 years ago
Why?
ATBINTC 3 years ago
Takes faith? There is no proof of existence of any god, or no proof of existence of anything supernatural. Atheist understands religions simply as human phenomena.
satail 3 years ago 5
Define proof
ATBINTC 3 years ago
Like somekind of miracle witnessed by many people. There is no such a thing. There are only stories. Bible is no proof of anything supernatural, it can be understood as a human creation. Like many old myths which people have all around the world.
satail 3 years ago
Why are you not believing in the celestial teapot ? It must take you a lot of faith. Why are you not believing in Zeus, Odin and Shiva ? Are you making a religion of not believing in those things ? It take no faith to lack believes in the pink invisible unicorn, the celestial teapot, the protestant's God, the catholic's God, the muslim's God, the jew's God, in Odin, in Zeus, in Jupiter, in Shiva etc.
anarkoFred 3 years ago 5
Broadly an evidence is something that can be measured, quantified, qualified, observed objectively, something that is consistent with other evidences and something that allow to determine the truth of an assertion. The fact that you feel Jesus in your heart is not an evidence that God exist. Some peoples feel dolphins, spirit, aliens, demons or gods communicating with them or making them feel things. Your personal fantasies have no priority on the fantasies of others.
anarkoFred 3 years ago 6
The only thing that I know (about myself) is that I will not be fully convinced of anything while I'm laying on my death bed waiting to die.
I'll be curious if something is gonna await me or not....but I have no faith. But I can still HOPE there is an afterlife can I?
It's not the same as waisiting your life in following a religion or having faith.
cupocity303 3 years ago
Neither will I be convinced of anytihng in sense of "ultimate truth". Im open to idea of that we might have meaning to ourselves other than this physical world.
satail 3 years ago
cupocity303 - sure, so long as you aren't a part of a religious cult, doing their bidding and giving them $, i think you are doing fine :> ! simple hoping without being conned by those who say they know "for sure" sounds okay to me!
earthypig 3 years ago
why waste time hoping for an afterlife when your living a present life already?
mcalien24 3 years ago
Horrible response. What are you trying to bait me into a senseless arguement?
cupocity303 3 years ago
Hoping and actually believing are much different concepts. We all have a certain hope for an afterlife, it has nearly become a part of our human condition. But believing it is true is no proof of its validity. Whether there is or is not an afterlife is irrelevant in this life - that's why it's called the AFTERlife.
TKMSeznam12 2 years ago
I think in hoping for an afterlife, it refutes the idea of haste as a necessity in this life. I think it relaxes the mind when it should be craving knowledge. I think it can be compared to hoping for sunshine in a thunder storm. It will not change your mood about the current weather. However, I understand it is tempting to crave more. Human beings are greedy, hence we even have an idea of an afterlife. We can not appreciate what we have, we must only hope for more...
aquatix 2 years ago 2
I'll add to that Original Sin which is a doctrine borne of a fictional/methaphorical symbolic creation idea, very common in the pre-scientific world, that places guilt on the unborn.
bonangusacdc 3 years ago 2
I've posted onto at least eight videos now and I am still to receive an answer so I'll ask one final time...What is moral about Vicarious Redemption?
bonangusacdc 3 years ago
The comparison of God and Kim Jung Ill is priceless, well done Mr. Hitchens, you are the most persuasive pseudo-intellectual the world has ever seen.
Questfortruth86 3 years ago
demonscrowly
Hitchens is such a masterful provocateur that people often overlook the fact that his arguments against religion are actually very strong.
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I take it what you meant to say was "very wrong". Take away his Oxford accent and the fancy language and you're not left with much.
AnnaAgainstAtheists 3 years ago
which argument is strong?
Questfortruth86 3 years ago
Questfortruth86
which argument is strong?
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You tell me because my point was that his arguments aren't strong but wrong.
AnnaAgainstAtheists 3 years ago
excuse me, i should have read the entire post.
Questfortruth86 3 years ago
Hitchens does well to put forth these ideas in a time such as this.
HumanStrategy 3 years ago
Well Mr Hitchens so you don't want "mammals made of the same flesh" telling you they know God and you don't because you find it "deeply offensive to the rationalist mind", and I say all of this shows you have an egoistic and narrowly materialistic idea of things and as for "deeply offensive to the rationalist mind" let me remind you there's a very rich tradition of great rationalists believing in God with Descartes, Spinoza and Leibniz, and North Korea like heaven just isn't worth commenting.
AnnaAgainstAtheists 3 years ago
I like how you splice quotes together, completely skewing what he said.
Congratulations, you are clearly very intellectually honest.
flamablesteve 3 years ago
flamablesteve
I like how you splice quotes together, completely skewing what he said.
Congratulations, you are clearly very intellectually honest.
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It's exactly what Mr Hitchens said and I think it reflects his position faithfully and if you don't like it, well that's not my fault.
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AnnaAgainstAtheists 3 years ago
I don't believe that Hitchens is saying that the claim to know the will of God is wrong because it's offensive. Rather, I believe he sees it as wrong and offensive because of the combined arrogance and impossibility of the claim. There's a distinction to be made, however, between the knowing of God on a personal level and claiming to know God and what God wants and asserting the right to tell others what to do on that basis. By what right does any human say that they are privy to such knowledge?