@ Hoffenheim: I agree with you. Steffi was the best. Statistics are for fools only. And the heaven ist red with a blue sun shining on a beautiful black sandy beach, where people are swimming in a tomato soup. (-,
I don't like either of them too much and sometimes it's really a shame a match can have only 1 loser. Navrat is so full of herself, swaggering around the court like a 10 feet tall dude...
I don't think Graf played too well at all. Why couldn't she pass the old gall like Seles did in the final over and over and over?
I was in 7th heaven after this match, I have always admired Martina and detested Graf. Graf would never have passed Martina's 18 Grand Slam titles if Monica Seles hadn't been stabbed.
Graf was far more popular than Navratilova. She recently even won the "most popular female Wimbledon player" in England. Navratilova was only a distant second.
1991. After the separation from her girlfriend Judy Nelson earlier this year and some knee troubles, Martina was down. She lost the Quarterfinal of Wimbledon against the 15 years old Capriati - as the defending champion. Steffi was in good shape and won Wimbledon. Therefore that result was a sensation and maybe one of the most important victories of Martina. Unfortunately, Seles was too strong for her in the final.
Graf was in bad shape. She lost badly at the FO to Sanchez. She only narrowly beat Sabatini in the Wimbledon finals. 1991 was her worst year in the 1987-96 decade.
@Hoffenheim08 Yes, you are right, 1991 was not her best year. But we should not forget, Steffi was always strong enough to win a Grand-Slam-Tournament. Gaby was better in the Final of Wimbledon, nevertheless Graf has won. That has made her so dangerous all over the years. She was still number one or two in the world, and for me it was a sensation, at least a big suprise, that she lost against Martina in the Semies.
What makes you think Sabatini was better in the Wimbledon 1991 final? It was a close match with highs and lows for both players. And Graf was better when it counted - in the end.
Navratilova was still a force in the early 90s. Don't forget that she beat Seles four (!) times in 1991-93.
@Hoffenheim08 When I say that someone was better, then it is just my personal opinion. How should I prove it? 354 against 353 points?*lol* ... The big advantage of Martina was her great serve and volley-game. All players (including Seles) had troubles against her, if she was (often enough) in the right position at the net. But in my opinion it was easier for Martina to beat Monica, than to win against Steffi. Seles was a strong baseliner, but Graf had simply more variations in her game.
Steffi lost this because of all the self-doubts that entered her game in 1990-1992. It was too bad that Martina couldn't win the U.S. Open final, but frankly she wasn't good enough by then. She played valiantly against Graf aided by Graf's unforced errors.
everyone goes on and on about the Seles/Capriati SF from the 91 Open- but I always thought this match was better- more variety/contrast....the Sel/Cap match was 63 36 76 (or 36 63- not sure which won the first set/etc- but the score in both sets was 63)
Steffi, Steffi, Steffi! Martina, Martina, Martina!! Ein ranschmeißerischer, distanzloser Kommentator, wie er im Buche steht! Ist er der Onkel oder Pate von Graf und Navratilova oder was?! Die Spielerinnen haben auch Nachnamen und die wollen verwendet werden, sonst verstauben sie!
@Hoffenheim08 Okay. Ich finde es zumindest unseriös und nervig. Da lobe ich mir einen Hans-Jürgen Pohmann. Der hat selbst 14- oder 15-jährige Spielerinnen stets gesiezt.
@Hoffenheim08 Sonst fand ich Szepanski auch ganz gut. Steffi Graf wollte übrigens eigentlich immer "Stefanie" genannt werden, da man "Steffi" eher Kinder ruft. Agassi nennt sie heute stets Stefanie. Auch nicht schlecht fand ich Volker Kottkamp. Bei dem etwas übertrieben war allerdings, dass er, wo immer es ging, auf englische Tennis-Begriffe wie "Break" oder "Volley" verzichtet hat und stattdessen von "Aufschlagsverlust" und "Flugball" etc. sprach...
Graf is widely recognized as the greatest female tennis player of all time.
Because she won by far the most slams in the professional era. And each of the three most prestigious tournaments on this planet (Wimbledon, FO, USO) at least 5 times. And the Golden Grand Slam.
Navratilova fans are bitter of course. Well, life is tough. At least she has a lot of doubles titles ... (not to forget the mixed doubles!)
I would like to add many of the Graf fans should almost thank Martina for beating Graf here. Graf fanatics like to claim Seles cant beat Graf on any fast surface, not just grass, but even a fast hard court or indoors, despite Seles winning every big title not on grass in 91 and 92. They ignore Graf never played Seles on those courts during Seles's prime years. Graf not beating Martina here and possibly avoiding a loss to Seles in the final allows Graf fanatics to continue that false myth.
Certainly it's hard to see Graf beating Seles on the form they both showed in this tournament. Seles was amazing in the final and just too good that day.
@Nicklas4500 I agree but many Graf fanatics will tell you "oh Seles never beat Graf on any fast court, so Graf would have won for sure." Graf and Seles never played on a fast court other than grass during Seles's prime in the early 90s, so it is speculation how they truly matched up on fast hard courts or indoors. However I dont know why Graf fans would assume Graf was certain to win those U.S Opens and WTA Championships where Seles kept beating the players in the finals who had beaten Graf.
@Nicklas4500 how Graf and Seles both fare vs Navratilova is of no relevance to a Graf-Seles matchup. Graf had more trouble with Martina than Seles since Seles had much better passing shots than Graf. Seles is also a better returner of serve than Graf which is important vs someone always serve and volleying. In a Graf-Seles matchup there are hardly any passing shots other than lunging ones off a killer approach during a baseline rally and definitely no serve and volleys.
@grafgirl27 Good points. On this occasion, I do think Seles would have been too good for Graf (regardless of match-ups wtih Navratilova) though of course that's just conjecture.
@Nicklas4500 I suppose that is possible but Seles does not have a very good history vs Graf on faster surfaces. As you said it is just conjecture though really. Seles definitely deserved to win the tournament. I am not disputing that in anyway.
@grafgirl27 But at the '93 Aussie open (which is a hard court), Seles beat Graf in 3 sets. In fact, the last 2 sets were routings. Anyway, I would have loved to see more hard court matches between Seles & Graf. When Seles came back, she wasn't fit anymore to contend with Graf (Seles developed an eating disorder).
only a loser like you would count those 2 wimbledons as seles was only 15 and didnt grunt in the other one.so everybody knows that was the seles that beat graf in 1993 at the australian open.seles aces 8-1 in that match the first time seles ever out aced graf in a match proves how seles was stronger now and could overpower graf.
You think one 3-set win on one's favourite surface against an opponent on her least favourite surface proves anything when you lost 3 of the 4 previous matches (75 %) and 7 of the previous 10 sets (70 %)?
But Seles WON 3 out of 4 slams finals against Graf, and of course, took away Graf's number one ranking, rather easily........
And since you keep metioning Wimbledon, in 1994, Graf was lost in the FIRST ROUND to Lori McNeil at Wimbledon.....
It is, to this day, THE WORST LOSS IN OPEN ERA GRAND SLAM HISTORY.......no defending champion and number one seed has EVER lost in the first round except for one......
everybody knows the clay was seles's fav surface except for ur dumbass.and it wasnt grafs least favorite surface since she won 3 in a row there before seles showed up you retard.seles had a 4-3 edge over graf when she was stabbed if u take away the 3 wins graf had over seles at age 15.when she didnt play a full year.so seles passed graf up in wins head to head u dumbass.seles having 8aces to grafs 1 also proves how seles was entering her prime and was much stronger now than graf.
u said graf wasnt smoked in the final set u retard.she lost it 6-2 and yet u say graf smoked seles at wimb when she won a set 6-2 so how is that different.and that match doesnt even matter since seles didnt grunt cause of graf threatening to complain you retard.
31-21 in winners, 7-1 in aces. Seles broke Graf 4 times and never lost serve the last two sets........in other words, she broke Graf TWICE in each set, overpowering her......
Seles even hit more FOREHAND WINNERS.......LOL.....
And here is another sad fact: Graf admitted she was playing some of her best tennis......
@Hoffenheim08 i think you should know that, stupid..
after all, only two months ago, YOU LIED and wrote that Graf had more winners in the 1993 Aussie Open Final......"39-34"...remeber that very STPUPID and sloppy lie? Everyone made fun of you......
LOL, LOL, LOL.........yeah, right, like you can be killed losing your serve 4 times and hit 39 winners.....
Sometimes you want me to wear one of your dresses, then you want me to "stop dressing like a woman".
I have 2 tennis mags with slightly different counts (for counting a clear winner or an unforced error is a subjective matter of course). Both have Steffi ahead in the winners' department. If you add aces to the winners then one of them has Seles narrowly ahead. Steffi made clearly more UEs.
@grafgirl27 I think age did Martina in. When she was battling Seles, in the 90's. she was past her prime. But, in 1992 & 1993 at age 36, Martina still beat Seles on a hardcout & carpet. If Martina was still at her prime 1984, she would be very competitive with Seles too.
@selesfan30 US Hard Courts Championship of 1991.... Graf crushed Seles at that event, and that was hard court. People should grow up and stop speculating about these two. History is history and what happened happened... get over it!
I think Martina has to be called the greatest women's player ever due to the fact that she dominated singles AND doubles... Steffi won more Slam singles titles, but Martina's doubles accomplishments gives her the edge.
When people talk about the greatest ever they're not even thinking about doubles. I think it's debatable, though, that Graf was better than Martina. If they were playing each other on grass or hard courts and it was 5 all in the third set, I'd still put my money on Martina.
I agree with you...though I don't think it's just Martina's doubles record that gives her the edge. Statistically, her dominance in singles for 5-6 years as #1 (best win:loss seasons, record 6GS in a row, longest winning streaks etc.) is unmatched in the open era. She has an equal or better h2h record against Graf and Evert, her closest rivals. She won 60 more singles titles overall than Graf. Plus her extraordinary longevity: the only player to win slams in 3 different decades...
That is why I disagree with the Graf fans who dismiss Seles dominance in the early 90s due to Graf's slump. Yes I know Graf was playing worse and losing to others besides Seles more. However she was because Seles was #1, that is what caused her weaker play and others beating her more. It was no coincidence that after the Seles stabbing Graf fully regained her confidence and began dominating all those again. That is how she was lucky with the Seles stabbing, not just not facing Monica herself.
...here you see her beating Graf in their last meeting in a major, aged almost 35. Between '91-'94, she was 2-2 h2h with Graf despite giving away 13 years to her rival. In 1987, when she beat Graf in straight sets at Wimbledon and USO, she was already 30, older than the age at which Graf retired!
The fact that she also has the best doubles record in history is just icing on the cake!
If you look at her overall record there's really nobody to touch Navratilova except perhaps Margaret Court.
I think part of the reason an old Martina beat Graf twice from 91-early 93 is due to Seles. By that I mean Graf lost alot of confidence and others lost alot of fear vs Graf when Seles first cracked Graf's aura of invincability by beating her twice in spring 1990, then took her #1 ranking in early 91. It made Steffi shakier and made others see her as less scary too. Hence some losses to Martina, Sanchez, Sabatini, Novotna she was almost never having during 3 years of dominance prior.
I think there's a lot of truth in that. Tennis is all about confidence and resilience. There may be another factor too. By the late 80s Martina was pretty burnt out after 6 years of unparalleled dominance in both singles and doubles. She played more top-flight tennis in that period than anyone else before or since. In 88/9 her knees were crocked. She came back after surgery to win Wimbledon in '90 and that gave her the confidence to raise her game against Graf and beat her again.
Yes I agree with that. Navratilova in some ways was playing better in the early 90s than in the late 80s despite being older. She had her knee fixed and was more confident again. That combined with Graf's own loss of confidence due largely to Seles's presence IMO caused the Navratilova to start getting some wins over Graf again. The problem for Martina was although she was doing better vs Graf, there were others like Seles and Sabatini who had improved.
Steffi's shitty backhand really let her down in this match! She played like she didn't really care that she would lose the number one ranking after this match! I remember this US Open with Gabriela losing easily to Capriati and Arantxa losing to Martina the final was very boring after two outstanding semifinal matches!!
Actually, as Graf herself said, her "shitty" backhand was a very undetestimated weapon of hers. But you're right, the final was quite anti-climatic as opposed to the sizzling semis.The men's semis and final were not spectacular either.
The 1 exception maybe was to Martinez at Philadelphia in 1992. Seles never beat Graf on a surface faster than Rebound Ace, which is one of the slowest was one of the slowest hardcourt surface out there.
Graf lost to Novotna at the VS Championships that year, using a serve-volley game which was more effective style against her on a fast indoor carpet surface. Graf's only losses indoors during the late 80's/early 90's were to serve-volleyes such as Shriver, Navratilova, Novotna, McNeil & Sabatini (who kept charging the net against her too), not to baseliners.
Are you just too stupid to read the comment properly or just too stupid period? Neither Coetzer or Sanchez Vic. ever beat Graf "indoors" which is what I said. Amanda Coetzer only beat Graf 4 times in her career. Check your facts before before making ridiculous statements that can't be backed up.
Great match, thanks for posting. I remember feeling disappointed Steffi couldn't pull this one out. She was the only one who could've beaten Monica Seles in the final. Unfortunately Martina was physically spent after playing a tough 3-setter against Arantxa Sanchez Vicario in the quarters & then this tough match against Steffi. The final was an anti-climax 7-6 6-1 to Monica.
Martina was on a such a role during this tournament I think she would have beaten Seles in the final had the US Open had a day off between the semi & final. She was exhausted in that final against Seles.
@ Hoffenheim: I agree with you. Steffi was the best. Statistics are for fools only. And the heaven ist red with a blue sun shining on a beautiful black sandy beach, where people are swimming in a tomato soup. (-,
zitomusic1 2 months ago
@zitomusic1 how about...you stop crying over facts?
MrDaphool 2 weeks ago
I don't like either of them too much and sometimes it's really a shame a match can have only 1 loser. Navrat is so full of herself, swaggering around the court like a 10 feet tall dude...
I don't think Graf played too well at all. Why couldn't she pass the old gall like Seles did in the final over and over and over?
suddenlyitsobvious 3 months ago
Seles and Navratilova the BEST EVER...(Graf was just a lucky one...)
championxeneixe 4 months ago
@championxeneixe
Yes, that's why Seles has zero Wimbledons and Navratilova zero Grand Slams.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
Great match this. A real shame it took so much out of Martina and left her quite flat for the final against Seles.
zephyruk 5 months ago
Amazing Martina close to 35 and beating Graf who was early 20s. Graf got out of tennis right at 30.
oneilcassandra 5 months ago
@oneilcassandra
18 months later Navratilova even beat #1 Seles.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
I was in 7th heaven after this match, I have always admired Martina and detested Graf. Graf would never have passed Martina's 18 Grand Slam titles if Monica Seles hadn't been stabbed.
clarriona 5 months ago 105
@clarriona
Minority report.
Graf was far more popular than Navratilova. She recently even won the "most popular female Wimbledon player" in England. Navratilova was only a distant second.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
1991. After the separation from her girlfriend Judy Nelson earlier this year and some knee troubles, Martina was down. She lost the Quarterfinal of Wimbledon against the 15 years old Capriati - as the defending champion. Steffi was in good shape and won Wimbledon. Therefore that result was a sensation and maybe one of the most important victories of Martina. Unfortunately, Seles was too strong for her in the final.
matjesworld 6 months ago
@matjesworld
'Martina was down'
Yes, it seems her separation from Judy Nelson was pretty messy.
Nelson wrote the books 'Love Match: Nelson vs. Navratilova' and 'Choices: My Journey After Leaving my Husband for Martina and a Lesbian Life'.
Seems Martina isn't exactly a good judge of character.
suddenlyitsobvious 3 months ago
@matjesworld
Graf was in bad shape. She lost badly at the FO to Sanchez. She only narrowly beat Sabatini in the Wimbledon finals. 1991 was her worst year in the 1987-96 decade.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Yes, you are right, 1991 was not her best year. But we should not forget, Steffi was always strong enough to win a Grand-Slam-Tournament. Gaby was better in the Final of Wimbledon, nevertheless Graf has won. That has made her so dangerous all over the years. She was still number one or two in the world, and for me it was a sensation, at least a big suprise, that she lost against Martina in the Semies.
matjesworld 2 months ago
@matjesworld
What makes you think Sabatini was better in the Wimbledon 1991 final? It was a close match with highs and lows for both players. And Graf was better when it counted - in the end.
Navratilova was still a force in the early 90s. Don't forget that she beat Seles four (!) times in 1991-93.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 When I say that someone was better, then it is just my personal opinion. How should I prove it? 354 against 353 points?*lol* ... The big advantage of Martina was her great serve and volley-game. All players (including Seles) had troubles against her, if she was (often enough) in the right position at the net. But in my opinion it was easier for Martina to beat Monica, than to win against Steffi. Seles was a strong baseliner, but Graf had simply more variations in her game.
matjesworld 2 months ago
Lucky Martina retired, Heinz Guthart would have been after her if she kept beating Stefi
justnatural 6 months ago
@justnatural
Who is Guthart?
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
Steffi lost this because of all the self-doubts that entered her game in 1990-1992. It was too bad that Martina couldn't win the U.S. Open final, but frankly she wasn't good enough by then. She played valiantly against Graf aided by Graf's unforced errors.
antinotis 7 months ago
@antinotis that's not fair to say. Basically you are ignoring Navratilova's effort and Monica Seles' dominance in that time period.
juanlu2611 5 months ago
Great match...
MrJohnMcenroe 9 months ago
Love to watch these games.
Amazing what martina could do a few months shy of her 35th birthday. Simply the best...
alin1975 1 year ago 5
everyone goes on and on about the Seles/Capriati SF from the 91 Open- but I always thought this match was better- more variety/contrast....the Sel/Cap match was 63 36 76 (or 36 63- not sure which won the first set/etc- but the score in both sets was 63)
demc67 1 year ago
Steffi, Steffi, Steffi! Martina, Martina, Martina!! Ein ranschmeißerischer, distanzloser Kommentator, wie er im Buche steht! Ist er der Onkel oder Pate von Graf und Navratilova oder was?! Die Spielerinnen haben auch Nachnamen und die wollen verwendet werden, sonst verstauben sie!
MultiStar83 1 year ago
@MultiStar83
Nein, die Nachnamen wollen das keineswegs.
Und ich will keinen Kommentar, der sich distanziert.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 Okay. Ich finde es zumindest unseriös und nervig. Da lobe ich mir einen Hans-Jürgen Pohmann. Der hat selbst 14- oder 15-jährige Spielerinnen stets gesiezt.
MultiStar83 1 year ago
@MultiStar83
Das ist Geschmackssache. Es wäre schlimm, wenn die Menschen alle gleich wären. Ich fand den Gerd Szepanski jedenfalls auf seine Art auch immer gut.
Pohmann war auch OK, mit seiner "Stefanie Graf".
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 Sonst fand ich Szepanski auch ganz gut. Steffi Graf wollte übrigens eigentlich immer "Stefanie" genannt werden, da man "Steffi" eher Kinder ruft. Agassi nennt sie heute stets Stefanie. Auch nicht schlecht fand ich Volker Kottkamp. Bei dem etwas übertrieben war allerdings, dass er, wo immer es ging, auf englische Tennis-Begriffe wie "Break" oder "Volley" verzichtet hat und stattdessen von "Aufschlagsverlust" und "Flugball" etc. sprach...
MultiStar83 1 year ago
Tennis and sports is about titles and records.
If you look at the facts, everyone must see, that
Martina Navratilova is the most sucessfull
female player of all time. (singles & doubles)
Steffi Graf leeds only the longest No1-ranking,
(would have not lead without Seles-stabbing)
Graf didn't win the most tornaments, didn't win
the most grand slam titles, was not the record
winner of any big tornaments. (grand slam or
championchips). Why should she be No1?
zitomusic1 1 year ago 109
@zitomusic1
Graf is widely recognized as the greatest female tennis player of all time.
Because she won by far the most slams in the professional era. And each of the three most prestigious tournaments on this planet (Wimbledon, FO, USO) at least 5 times. And the Golden Grand Slam.
Navratilova fans are bitter of course. Well, life is tough. At least she has a lot of doubles titles ... (not to forget the mixed doubles!)
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
That reply was to Selesfan30 as well by the way.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
I would like to add many of the Graf fans should almost thank Martina for beating Graf here. Graf fanatics like to claim Seles cant beat Graf on any fast surface, not just grass, but even a fast hard court or indoors, despite Seles winning every big title not on grass in 91 and 92. They ignore Graf never played Seles on those courts during Seles's prime years. Graf not beating Martina here and possibly avoiding a loss to Seles in the final allows Graf fanatics to continue that false myth.
selesfan30 1 year ago
Certainly it's hard to see Graf beating Seles on the form they both showed in this tournament. Seles was amazing in the final and just too good that day.
Nicklas4500 1 year ago
@Nicklas4500 I agree but many Graf fanatics will tell you "oh Seles never beat Graf on any fast court, so Graf would have won for sure." Graf and Seles never played on a fast court other than grass during Seles's prime in the early 90s, so it is speculation how they truly matched up on fast hard courts or indoors. However I dont know why Graf fans would assume Graf was certain to win those U.S Opens and WTA Championships where Seles kept beating the players in the finals who had beaten Graf.
selesfan30 1 year ago
@Nicklas4500 how Graf and Seles both fare vs Navratilova is of no relevance to a Graf-Seles matchup. Graf had more trouble with Martina than Seles since Seles had much better passing shots than Graf. Seles is also a better returner of serve than Graf which is important vs someone always serve and volleying. In a Graf-Seles matchup there are hardly any passing shots other than lunging ones off a killer approach during a baseline rally and definitely no serve and volleys.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
@grafgirl27 Good points. On this occasion, I do think Seles would have been too good for Graf (regardless of match-ups wtih Navratilova) though of course that's just conjecture.
Nicklas4500 1 year ago
@Nicklas4500 I suppose that is possible but Seles does not have a very good history vs Graf on faster surfaces. As you said it is just conjecture though really. Seles definitely deserved to win the tournament. I am not disputing that in anyway.
grafgirl27 1 year ago
@grafgirl27 But at the '93 Aussie open (which is a hard court), Seles beat Graf in 3 sets. In fact, the last 2 sets were routings. Anyway, I would have loved to see more hard court matches between Seles & Graf. When Seles came back, she wasn't fit anymore to contend with Graf (Seles developed an eating disorder).
Carlski79 1 year ago
@Carlski79
AO was a very slow hard-court back then, high ball bounce.
And the last two sets were no "routing". Graf hit more winners even in the last set (which she lost 2-6).
"Routing" is the right word for what Steffi did with Seles in Wimbledon 1989 and 1992. Or maybe "drilling her a new one" ... ?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
only a loser like you would count those 2 wimbledons as seles was only 15 and didnt grunt in the other one.so everybody knows that was the seles that beat graf in 1993 at the australian open.seles aces 8-1 in that match the first time seles ever out aced graf in a match proves how seles was stronger now and could overpower graf.
jayfey77 1 year ago
@jayfey77
You think one 3-set win on one's favourite surface against an opponent on her least favourite surface proves anything when you lost 3 of the 4 previous matches (75 %) and 7 of the previous 10 sets (70 %)?
You are insane ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
But Seles WON 3 out of 4 slams finals against Graf, and of course, took away Graf's number one ranking, rather easily........
And since you keep metioning Wimbledon, in 1994, Graf was lost in the FIRST ROUND to Lori McNeil at Wimbledon.....
It is, to this day, THE WORST LOSS IN OPEN ERA GRAND SLAM HISTORY.......no defending champion and number one seed has EVER lost in the first round except for one......
Steffi Graf......
artisking 1 year ago
everybody knows the clay was seles's fav surface except for ur dumbass.and it wasnt grafs least favorite surface since she won 3 in a row there before seles showed up you retard.seles had a 4-3 edge over graf when she was stabbed if u take away the 3 wins graf had over seles at age 15.when she didnt play a full year.so seles passed graf up in wins head to head u dumbass.seles having 8aces to grafs 1 also proves how seles was entering her prime and was much stronger now than graf.
jayfey77 1 year ago
its funny how you dont count 6-2 as a route yet you do at the 92 wimbledon when seles lost a set 6-2 haha.boy are you stupid.
jayfey77 1 year ago
@jayfey77
Losing 2-6 1-6 is being routed, yes.
Losing 6-4 3-6 2-6 (with 78-86 on points played) is not.
Funny concept for Selesian trash, I know ...
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
u said graf wasnt smoked in the final set u retard.she lost it 6-2 and yet u say graf smoked seles at wimb when she won a set 6-2 so how is that different.and that match doesnt even matter since seles didnt grunt cause of graf threatening to complain you retard.
jayfey77 1 year ago
@jayfey77
It says a lot when you only have a 4-6 6-3 6-2 win at the least prestigious slam (with 86-78 on points) to prove Steffi was getting "smoked".
Steffi has a 6-2 6-1 at the most prestigious slam against Seles. The worst loss ever for a #1 player in the history of women's tennis.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
But Seles did Rout her, rather badly....
31-21 Seles over Graf in winners.....
7-1 aces Seles over Graf.......
Seles broke Graf's serve twice in the final set and never lost her own.......she ran away with it....easily.
artisking1 1 year ago
@artisking1
Yes, Seles "routed" her 4-6 6-3 6-2 with 86-78 on points played.
It was a so-called "Seles rout".
Comparably how Federer "routed" Roddick in the Wimbledon 2009 final.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
But Seles did beat her, easily....
31-21 in winners, 7-1 in aces. Seles broke Graf 4 times and never lost serve the last two sets........in other words, she broke Graf TWICE in each set, overpowering her......
Seles even hit more FOREHAND WINNERS.......LOL.....
And here is another sad fact: Graf admitted she was playing some of her best tennis......
artisking1 1 year ago
@artisking1
Do you include the aces in the winners?
Or do they come on top?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08 i think you should know that, stupid..
after all, only two months ago, YOU LIED and wrote that Graf had more winners in the 1993 Aussie Open Final......"39-34"...remeber that very STPUPID and sloppy lie? Everyone made fun of you......
LOL, LOL, LOL.........yeah, right, like you can be killed losing your serve 4 times and hit 39 winners.....
WhAT A LIAR YOU ARE.......LOL......
artisking1 1 year ago
@artisking1
Do you dispute that Seles made 86 points and Steffi 78?
(I bet you won't answer that one either - guess why ... )
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
DO YOU ADMIT TO LYING ABOUT THE WINNERS IN THIS MATCH?
ANSWER THE QUESTION SISSY?
Who had more winners? Seles did, and you LIED.....
and i caught you, and humiliated you.......as usual...
Pooor Sissy......
artisking1 1 year ago
@artisking1
What "lying", dofus?
What a funny question from a a notorious liar like you!
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
ANSWER THE QUESTION, SISSY.......
Did you LIE when you STUPIDLY wrote that Graf hit 39-34 winners in the 1993 Aussie Open FInal?
ANSWER THE QUESTION.......
We all know the truth...Seles 31-21 in winners, 7-1 in aces......
Coward, Whimp, Sissy....liar.
LOL.....Case Closed......
artisking1 1 year ago
@artisking1
There were several slighly differing couts.
But all had Steffi ahead in the winners department, faggie. All.
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hoffenheim08
PROVE IT LOSER........Give me the breakdown....forehand winners, BH winners aces.....etc ......
and THEN...
NAME YOUR SOURCE, SISSY....there are AMPLE videos of the match on Youtube......all you have to do is find ONE video that proves your lie true.....
PROVE THAT YOU AREN"T A LIAR, SISSY.......
C'mon, sissy, take that Dress off and get to work....
......we are all waiting, Homo.......
DO IT NOW.
artisking1 1 year ago
@Hoffenheim08
C'mon Sissy.....where are YOU?
Stop dressing like a woman and POST THOSE STATS.....
.......We are WAITING!
where are these "several slightly differing counts", HOMO?
SHOW US, SISSY..........
artisking1 1 year ago
@artisking1
LOL, you seem to be very confused, fag.
Sometimes you want me to wear one of your dresses, then you want me to "stop dressing like a woman".
I have 2 tennis mags with slightly different counts (for counting a clear winner or an unforced error is a subjective matter of course). Both have Steffi ahead in the winners' department. If you add aces to the winners then one of them has Seles narrowly ahead. Steffi made clearly more UEs.
Which did her in as always in Seles matches
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
Comment removed
artisking1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hoffenheim08
Which are these TWO Mags, HOMO?
Let me Guess?
Your personal issue of INCHES, the gay porn magazine....or maybe your issue of "Ladies Home Journal"?
Or how about your issue of "Women on Ice!", you total HOMO! You love Women's Figure Skating!
NAME THE MAGAZINES, SISSY.......
OR....Sissy....
USE the 10-15 videos of the match ON YOUTUBE to prove your point?
C'mon Sissy!!
we are all waiting!
artisking1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Carlski79
Actually, routing is pretty accurate......Seles dominated in every category.
7-1 aces, 31-21 winners, more FOREHAND (wow) and BKHD Winners, more service winners, aces, higher MPH on serve, more forced errors.....etc etc etc
The last two sets weren't that close.......
artisking 1 year ago
@grafgirl27 I think age did Martina in. When she was battling Seles, in the 90's. she was past her prime. But, in 1992 & 1993 at age 36, Martina still beat Seles on a hardcout & carpet. If Martina was still at her prime 1984, she would be very competitive with Seles too.
Carlski79 1 year ago
@selesfan30 US Hard Courts Championship of 1991.... Graf crushed Seles at that event, and that was hard court. People should grow up and stop speculating about these two. History is history and what happened happened... get over it!
adsie79 1 year ago
Nadaltilova successfully exposed Graf's backhand weakness.
volvariella 2 years ago
Graf has one of the ugliest backhands ever...
xicano777 2 years ago 5
Justine is better than these two players.
beavertown2006 2 years ago
Then Serena Williams is the best if you say Justine is better than these two old bats.
However... if you talk about Serena, you must not forget about Venus. Both of them will not succeed as much without helping each other.
volvariella 2 years ago
I think Martina has to be called the greatest women's player ever due to the fact that she dominated singles AND doubles... Steffi won more Slam singles titles, but Martina's doubles accomplishments gives her the edge.
kljMN2 2 years ago
When people talk about the greatest ever they're not even thinking about doubles. I think it's debatable, though, that Graf was better than Martina. If they were playing each other on grass or hard courts and it was 5 all in the third set, I'd still put my money on Martina.
seaside145 2 years ago
I agree with you...though I don't think it's just Martina's doubles record that gives her the edge. Statistically, her dominance in singles for 5-6 years as #1 (best win:loss seasons, record 6GS in a row, longest winning streaks etc.) is unmatched in the open era. She has an equal or better h2h record against Graf and Evert, her closest rivals. She won 60 more singles titles overall than Graf. Plus her extraordinary longevity: the only player to win slams in 3 different decades...
Nicklas4500 2 years ago
That is why I disagree with the Graf fans who dismiss Seles dominance in the early 90s due to Graf's slump. Yes I know Graf was playing worse and losing to others besides Seles more. However she was because Seles was #1, that is what caused her weaker play and others beating her more. It was no coincidence that after the Seles stabbing Graf fully regained her confidence and began dominating all those again. That is how she was lucky with the Seles stabbing, not just not facing Monica herself.
selesfan30 1 year ago
...here you see her beating Graf in their last meeting in a major, aged almost 35. Between '91-'94, she was 2-2 h2h with Graf despite giving away 13 years to her rival. In 1987, when she beat Graf in straight sets at Wimbledon and USO, she was already 30, older than the age at which Graf retired!
The fact that she also has the best doubles record in history is just icing on the cake!
If you look at her overall record there's really nobody to touch Navratilova except perhaps Margaret Court.
Nicklas4500 2 years ago
I think part of the reason an old Martina beat Graf twice from 91-early 93 is due to Seles. By that I mean Graf lost alot of confidence and others lost alot of fear vs Graf when Seles first cracked Graf's aura of invincability by beating her twice in spring 1990, then took her #1 ranking in early 91. It made Steffi shakier and made others see her as less scary too. Hence some losses to Martina, Sanchez, Sabatini, Novotna she was almost never having during 3 years of dominance prior.
selesfan30 1 year ago
I think there's a lot of truth in that. Tennis is all about confidence and resilience. There may be another factor too. By the late 80s Martina was pretty burnt out after 6 years of unparalleled dominance in both singles and doubles. She played more top-flight tennis in that period than anyone else before or since. In 88/9 her knees were crocked. She came back after surgery to win Wimbledon in '90 and that gave her the confidence to raise her game against Graf and beat her again.
Nicklas4500 1 year ago
Yes I agree with that. Navratilova in some ways was playing better in the early 90s than in the late 80s despite being older. She had her knee fixed and was more confident again. That combined with Graf's own loss of confidence due largely to Seles's presence IMO caused the Navratilova to start getting some wins over Graf again. The problem for Martina was although she was doing better vs Graf, there were others like Seles and Sabatini who had improved.
selesfan30 1 year ago
steffi's forehand and footwork was amazing, but MARTINA is the best femal player ever!! she has the records to prove it. Great match!!!
MrPernell27 2 years ago 4
Steffi's shitty backhand really let her down in this match! She played like she didn't really care that she would lose the number one ranking after this match! I remember this US Open with Gabriela losing easily to Capriati and Arantxa losing to Martina the final was very boring after two outstanding semifinal matches!!
CandyPerfumeBoy82 2 years ago
Actually, as Graf herself said, her "shitty" backhand was a very undetestimated weapon of hers. But you're right, the final was quite anti-climatic as opposed to the sizzling semis.The men's semis and final were not spectacular either.
zim83 2 years ago
Arantxa lost to Martina in the quaters, not the final. Martina lost to selse in the final
MrPernell27 2 years ago
fabulous match with two of the greatest ever :)
juju1305 2 years ago
Am so glad Navratilova showed steffi who is boss!!
GDLJALMEX1 2 years ago
The 1 exception maybe was to Martinez at Philadelphia in 1992. Seles never beat Graf on a surface faster than Rebound Ace, which is one of the slowest was one of the slowest hardcourt surface out there.
fantome19 2 years ago
Graf lost to Novotna at the VS Championships that year, using a serve-volley game which was more effective style against her on a fast indoor carpet surface. Graf's only losses indoors during the late 80's/early 90's were to serve-volleyes such as Shriver, Navratilova, Novotna, McNeil & Sabatini (who kept charging the net against her too), not to baseliners.
fantome19 2 years ago
Yes, she did. Amanda Cotzer kicked Steffi's butt at least 5 times and Arantxa not to mention first round loss in major slam.
GDLJALMEX1 2 years ago
Are you just too stupid to read the comment properly or just too stupid period? Neither Coetzer or Sanchez Vic. ever beat Graf "indoors" which is what I said. Amanda Coetzer only beat Graf 4 times in her career. Check your facts before before making ridiculous statements that can't be backed up.
fantome19 2 years ago
Coetzer didn't start beating Graf until injuries started to wreak havoc with Graf's body. Coezter was similar to Arantxa just not as good overall,
quikkguy 2 years ago
Great match, thanks for posting. I remember feeling disappointed Steffi couldn't pull this one out. She was the only one who could've beaten Monica Seles in the final. Unfortunately Martina was physically spent after playing a tough 3-setter against Arantxa Sanchez Vicario in the quarters & then this tough match against Steffi. The final was an anti-climax 7-6 6-1 to Monica.
fantome19 2 years ago
it wud have been a good match graf vs seles 1991
seles wud be looking for revenge after her drubbing to her ealer.
olaraay 2 years ago
Martina was on a such a role during this tournament I think she would have beaten Seles in the final had the US Open had a day off between the semi & final. She was exhausted in that final against Seles.
westcst 2 years ago
whats ur excuse for steffi not reaching the masters final 2 months later,graf would have lost had she made it to the final.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Thanks so much for this have never seen this match before, great win for Martina.
benji84 2 years ago
martina navratilova with the best attitude performance.
myjaemail 2 years ago