Johann Hari vs Hizb Ut Tahrir - Part 6

[OurWorldReport]

Assuming that God exists, how can anyone be so certain that they KNOW what He wants that they feel empowered to kill someone else? All "Holy" books were written by men, inspired by what they "think" God intended. Then add in the often flawed interpretations by readers (made clear by the opposing views from reading the same text) & what do you get?... A very personal understanding that should be just that... a personal interpretation that should be kept to oneself and not imposed on anybody else

[apologeticacattolica]

@flaneur dilettante: I believe you hit on the nub of the problem which turns on the assumption that people know for a certainty what the will of God (assuming he exists) is. I'd argue that it's impossible to pit "man's will" against "God's will" since at bottom the latter is always an example of the former being attributed to God through some dubious sacred text or some historical event, the historicity of which is nearly impossible to certify.

[sptfgpn]

Johann is being ageist when he specifies, "elderly", mullahs. That's not good.

[b4uai11]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are against gays. Not just Islam!! I think that Hari must be an athiest. It is God's law that we must obey not manmade law!! Man made law causes so much corruption in the world.

[flaneurdilettante]

@b4uai11 Even assuming that God exists, I challenge you to provide one scrap of evidence that you know what He wants.

[AcroStigma]

Okay, I could listen to Khan ranting on intolerantly and dodging questions all day quite happily, but for a purple peacock's sake please could he work out how to pronounce Johann's name - it's not THAT hard.

[chrish12345]

Arri - I wudn't kick you outa bed

[erin321321]

i enjoyed this episoide. thanks for posting. 

[erin321321]

lol... American founding fathers...jefferson....and....­..and......'the others'...

[RationalConclusion]

It seems that the British government wants both a multicultural society but at the same time wants people to fully integrate into British culture. It can't have both. Multiculturalism is the existence of various different cultures within a society. If a person is living a life which is confined to a particular culture eg Islamic, Sikh, Jewish, then they are not properly integrating.

[chrish12345]

@RationalConclusion yeah the whole concept of multiculturalism is an oxymoron (with emphasis on the moron)

[sportygal1991]

that hari is like a parrot!!!!! he wasnt sincere enough throughout and for an educated person he made quite a few lies.

[flaneurdilettante]

@sportygal1991 Specify one example in which he was either insincere or lying

[rubstrol]

Hari win.

[leotakesleo]

Yohan is just a wackjob!

[cleverfeller]

I'm bored by muslims. They are such bores. No drinking, no dancing, no sexy encounters....go and fuck off back to pakland. I'm sick of the sight of you fuckers.

[AubreyDebrett]

That was a terrible discussion.

[realskript]

worst discussion ive ever seen on IC

[lucas198]

there is no god

[vlad013]

@lucas198 this is the most striking point. we muslim live for the pleasure for our creator or at least strive, never mind denying the existence of Creator all together. we accept that this life isnt all we are going to live for rather this a part of our greater life and everything has been created by Allah from whom we have come to being and to whom we shall return and surly there will be a day judgement.

[dilbertgeg]

The bad parts of the West include natl pride converted to jingoism, commercial media monopoly, lewd and puritan extremes in media-culture, fear encouraged and exploited, dumbing down education, social control more by propaganda (better than an iron fist), selfish consumerism taught, corporate rule, Operation Mockingbird, and other aspects which are NOT examples of liberal Enlightenment, but more an elite attempt to restrict and mitigate that freedom via sophisticated psych controls.

[dilbertgeg]

Sharia may .. MAY .. represent high-minded values that Khan mentions, respect, etc., but

a) ONLY for women who obey the strict rules

b) not always, as evidenced by de facto sanctioned rape under some Sharia govt

For a society to show caring and respect for weaker persons, women, and minorities, and other good moral values, should not require Sharia to impose it, and must be in hearts. Sharia seems at least as flawed as West in achieving those universal ideals, despite rigid rule.

[Femfikon]

Hari destroys the useless and society-destroying extremists. Hari wants people to leave one another alone, while the ridiculous fundamentalists wants to bother the lives of others.

Islam is not a religion intended only to satisfy the obsessions of tribalist men. Hizb Ut Tahrir are horrifying people and they should be constantly antagonized.

[wid85]

@Femfikon

Then again, the coordinates under which people are left alone are important. If people were 'left alone' in a situation where fundementalist groups owned every workplace in a country and provided 90% of funding to political parties that would look very different to a situation where all businesses were owened by workers and parties were funded according to plebicites. This is the basic flaw of liberalism: it does not consider the coordinates of its own existence.

[PunkCheerleaderBetch]

Heavily favoring the mad man of Mr Hari makes for a poor debate, poor discussion!