How we got into the mess LOL AIG,Goldman Sachs. What a joke! We were sold out folks, By all there laws and stupider rules,Fascism is alive and lives in Washington!
i thought the problem whas that there is was no controll over the markeds, like when the banks gave to much loan. By the way i belive that capitalism is an unfair system. When did the capitalists ever give any rights to the people?? if they always had their way, we would have worked 12-16 hour shifts and got payed like rats.
@WurledPeas Capitalism did not create computers and most of my stuff. smart people did that. I belive that a strong regulated capitalism is ok but the way it is now aint, because it wastes resaurces in a short amount of time and gives most of it to a few percent of the world.
60 years ago or so there was a pure capitalistic west and the work would be hell. The capitalists did everything they could to make sure that workers didnt get their rights and that is still their goal. thats not ok.
@Kikkankleiven And those smart people did all that for the good of mankind huh? Riiiight. 60 years? You and history are ill acquainted. Try over 100 years ago and those were statist Oligarchs you are talking about. Anything that looked like real free markets died in 1916 here. So what industries would you like to see more regulated? Don't say banking, insurance, oil, logging, auto manufacture or mining in the USA.... they have the most regulations of all and look where they are now.
@WurledPea you do not belive there was a free marked in the 40 and 50`s?, if not then what was it? it sure wasnt regulated. No i do not belive in regulated industries, but stuff that deals with people, like medicine etc should be state controlled if you aske me. the banking and insurance industry in the usa was not well regulated before the crack. One reason for that crack, was no federal controll. Sorry you can dream on and on about 100% capitalism and ron paul but its a fairytale, doesnt work.
@Kikkankleiven After 1913 the monetary controls/manipulations at a Federal level killed any chance os a free market. Again, you know nothing of US history. Asking for state control of all people oriented services like medicine is pure slavery. Maybe you should think about why. It's no mystery. Our banks were regulated and remain so. By the people THEY pay to put in office. They are controlled by a central authority who picks who wins and who loses.
@WurledPeas That you think our banks were unregulated is a joke. The CRA(something you know nothing about) opened a regulatory door literally forcing banks to lend to those unqualified under the pretense that everyone deserved to own their own home regardless of income. Then the response to the collapse was to take the very people who brought that silliness to full steam and make them members of the government. Look at Obamas staff. A who's who of Goldman Sachs and Lehman.
@WurledPeas n the 40's and 50's those people would be in jail along with the Senators that abated them. How's that for regulations? Now that grand Socialist hoax in the White House makes them regulators.
Yeah.... that big government thing is working out real well.
Man, stick to your video games and silly movies, reality is too deep for you.
@WurledPe true i do not have supreme knowlegde of us marked history, but i dont get what you meen by free marked? As far as i know there is mostly a free marked today, with some rools, but im sure those rooles are necesary. if you want to get back to the 1800, good luck. Free capitalism creates poor people and rich people, that is something im againts, im for a mix of capitalism and socialism, but not slavery, as long as it is the taxpayers who owns the state socialism doesnt have to be bad
@Kikkankleiven Socialism creates poor and rich people. With Socialism you replace the capitalist with the bureaucrat. The results are more negative as socialism removes incentive. The earning class has less incentive to produce(work hard) when half the money is forceable taken. The non earners who are coddled by the state via taxes are incentivized to remain as such.
Your inference that there was no economic divisions (rich v. poor) in the 1800s is totally false, blatant leftist propaganda.
@WurledPe offcource there was a huger difference between rich and po in the 18s, even kids had to work in a poor community to put food on the table. How can you say that capitalism doesnt create gaps between peoples wellfare?
And once again what do you meen by free marked?? no rools to follow ? i dont think we are talking about the same system, i do not meen communism but a capitalistic socialism, ever heard about ballance?. the rich is afraid to give some money back to the common man (tax).
@Kikkankleiven And there is still, in EVERY country a difference between rich and poor. Including your country. It is inevitable. It's a human condition. There is no such thing as Socialist capitalism. There is either one or the other. This country(USA) is currently a left leaning fascism. A free market is where people are allowed to do business and keep the proceeds of their labors. So long as they hurt no one they need not fear government intrusion. Again rich give BACK to poor?
@WurledPeas The "rich" only "owe" the "poor" what they contract with those persons vis a vi their contractual obligations regarding the labor of said "Poor". Other than that they owe nothing. Your suppositions that a person of means owes anyone he has no contract as enforced by one sided involuntary social contract through force of arms is advocacy of theft.
Dude, the rights of the "poor" are not the responsibility of the wealthy.
@WurledPeas yes but we should try to make that difference smaller no matter how long that takes. Yes there is something like that, in fact thats what we have had in my contry for a long time and it has worked well untill now. We have come under a sudden change for the worse, laws from the eu and our own politicians that makes it harder for buisnis, work and the everyday life. USA is far from a left leaning country compared to many countries in the eu, fascism i doubt you have though also.
@Kikkankleiven Fascism= private ownership of companies controlled under the dictum of government. We have that in buckets. The people who are responsible for the wellbeing and advancement of the poor are the poor themselves. Exclusively.
You are stuck in the social paradigm that someone who achieves is beholden to those whom did nothing to help him. When you have a government forcing achievers to support underachievers you have tyranny. That is unacceptable. I will agree.... the EU SUCKS!
@WurledPe most companies in the usa aint controlled by the state, if that was true, do you know how big your byro would have to be? i belive that is wrong, belive in helping the poor to help themselves, that is a good part of socialism. We had cp socialism since the 40s here and like i said it worked mighty well untill now, its almost like poeple have no say no more, every party are almost the same right or left, so its hard to vote for good change. the eu would be cool if it was democratic,
@Kikkankleiven Every company and their actions are controlled in USA. Yes, our government IS that big and growing. No, companies in USA are not just allowed to do as they please(except for the "to big to fail" banks who are in firm ownership of the Congress) as their actions are regulated and there are departments that regulate them. Don't tell me about business in USA until YOU have read to US Commercial Code. I run business's here. I presume you don't so kindly don't tell me how it is.
@WurledPeas Yeah, I believe in helping the deserving poor help themselves too. I don't believe in being forced to do it at gunpoint. That's Socialism. Your EU experience is typical of Socialism. They( a few elitists) consolidate power and wealth. Take what THEY deem the appropriate amount of the productive parties earnings and use it as they see fit regardless of the producers wishes. Kinda sounds like the false interpretation of capitalism you are promoting, doesn't it?
@WurledPeas yes i do help run a business, but not i the usa no. well what do you meen by controlled, if it is controll to ensure no corruption, blackmarked hiring and ohter crimminal stuff, dont you think its okei? but sure when goverment starts to say you must do that and that and this over small things its different, thats how it has become here. i checked that code out and it just seemed like sale rools, i guess it lookes a bit much, but it is nececary to have some terms.
@Kikkankleiven You could not have read the whole US Commercial Code in one day. Sorry. It is thousands of pages of twisted, arcane language that requires the expertise of Lawyers to decipher. It is NOT a mere list of sales rules. Man, the UCC for banking is hundreds of pages alone. That is more than just merely "some terms".
There are laws to try and prevent corruption. They are enforced by the most corrupt people in the country.
@WurledPeas Our commercial and business codes and rules are so convoluted and confusing that whole companies have started up that do nothing but advise businesses how to stay in compliance. THAT is ridiculous. I don't just "help" run a business here. I run a few of my own. Every year it gets harder and more expensive.
The liability alone is breathtaking. Because of fees and regulations and minimum financial responsibilities imposed artificially by the state I will be laying people off.
@eddieisfiction Under taxation is only a problem if you over spend. Living within reasonable means eliminates that. We should do so. In a nation under a constitutional rule of law the citizens are equally protected(or the foundation of such is provided) and no private citizen truly has power over another. What we have now is a ridiculous government that is overly influenced by private entities. I give you the outrageous Kelo decision. That was predicated on the promise higher taxation.
@eddieisfiction Not necessarily. This country was doing well prior to taxation of income by force of arms. You do realize the first highway system and railroads were built privately? My Grandfather established the water district my city uses now. He cut the first road between my town and the one 8 miles over hill away. Strung the first phone lines from our town to another 7 miles away. Privately and with permission of the involved land holders.
@eddieisfiction There were very few taxes. Very few. Now I pay well in excess of 50%. And they generally paid for the private wishes of a minority made public.
@WurledPeas i did not say that i read it all, what i did read was from wikipedia, i guessed that should give a clue of what it was. Well we do atleast agree on that there are many errors in the us goverment and that system, but we wil not agree on capitalism vs socialism. The thing is though, i do somehow belive that they are both good systems on the paper, but non of them are working at this moment. Like i said socialism worked well here in norway from after ww2 and up to the 1990s.
@Kikkankleiven Don't believe what wikipedia says. It's edited by agenda driven idiots with opinions rather than facts, more often than not. Socialism always runs dry because it squelches personal initiative. Why work when others will support you? Capitalism works because it makes everyone is made to work. There is reward in personal achievement and entrepreneurship that does not exist when the producer is severely limited in his returns as happens in socialism.
@WurledPeas Well wikepedia is okei, cause you can allways check out where the facts comes from. What socialism tries to do, is to create no loosers. No most folks that could work did work in norway and the working spirrit was high. But now that the politicians in power doesnt give a f#ck about what the woters belive and therefore doesnt reflect on the common person the picture getts very different and the result is with the next election we will sadly get a bush like party at power.
@Kikkankleiven They government can only create losers. No governance is capable of crating success. It's the individual that determines whether they win or lose. Everyone should stand at equal lengths in the eye of the government. I agree. But thats not what socialism tries to do. It tries to guarantee not equality of chance but rather equal results regardless of input. That's not right. It is tyranny to those who work harder and do more.
@WurledPeas tyranny is where the power is... if a country has more power in the private sector, thats where the tyranny will be. You cant escape tyranny by placing power to a different group. You have to take away the ability for anyone to have more power than another.
@eddieisfiction I have not seen microsoft or Ford murder whole populations. I have seen it happen a government. You would prevent one group from having power by centralizing it with yet another group? Your own argument cancels itself out.
@eddieisfiction I need not look it up. I own a farm not far from one of Dole's pineapple plantations in Philippines. You fail to mention one thing: It was government that facilitated those thefts of properties and murders. It was not the sugar and cattle moguls who took Hawaii or lands in Honduras for corporate interests. It was the Marines and army. I doubt I need to mention it to you but others may want to read "War is a Racket by Gen. Smedley Butler.
@WurledPeas yes I heard, they were able to level off the blame... however coca cola wasnt able to do that.... neither were designer clothes companies.... nike... etc.
hell even firestone has issues in mexico, a few other american companies do the same thing just south of the border, and use intimidation tactics just like the cartel does.
point being, dont just fear governments, fear power in general, its not always the governments that have it.
@eddieisfiction And they would not have the same clout without government to do their bidding. They utilize despots to get what they want. There is no leveling off of blame. They want something they cannot get so they bribe a government to enforce their wants. The despot gets a bribe. The local tax payer finances his own oppression and the corporation profits. Not all big corporations chose this tactic yet most governments have and many(ours, China, Russia ect.) still do. It's inevitable.
@WurledPeas also my main argument is, dont fall for the capitalism vs communism gag... its a propaganda machine. There never really was communism in russia or china... they were military dictatorships using economics for propaganda. I mean lets get real here. Government getting too much power is bad. I totally agree. However in the US, Americans dont seem to understand its not the government thats controlling things, its corporatism.
@eddieisfiction It's more than propaganda. It has become a religion. One willing to eat your children to enforce it's doctrines. It's not so simple as mere propaganda. And yeah, there are elements of the corporate elite running things, but make no mistake. The polar opposite in the bureaucrat ranks are doing their share to eliminate freedom as well.
@WurledPeas yes poor folks are necesary in a capitalistic world, to make things go around. Do you ever think that huge companies wold give back money to a country in africa, even though that company takes their resaurces for almost no money, make a product and earns alot of money?. Capitalism is: if you are strong you win and if you are weak you will suffer.
@Kikkankleiven Show me where I said poor people are unnecessary. The remainder of your statement is NOT capitalism. It's theft. Usually supported by government i.e. colonialism of Europeans over Africans and Asians. Or, theft by complicity of two governments, the victim nation and the suppressor. Such as goes on today.
Capitalism is a mutual agreement to the benefit of all involved without any coercion.
@WurledPe it is how capitalism opperates do you really think that most companies put morale before money? Thats not how it would be, competition is both good and bad, one way to win is to cheat and that is a back side of capitalism. "Show me where I said poor people are unnecessary" if you meen that, that shows a egoistic side and thats what many capitalists are. ps i wrote some bullsh down here i see, but that how it gets when wrigting to fast.
@Kikkankleiven I fail to see where your putting words into my mouth makes me an egotist. People start companies to do what? That's right, earn money. They are not there to give rights they do not possess to anyone. Take a serious look at the waste government spending causes as opposed to a private entity. Governments toss money away and there are few immediate consequences. A private entity does that and the go out of business, unless their friends in government "bail" them out.
we need competition to keep prices down and quality up in our own products , now we don't make anything anymore , so either we make products again or we starve
We were de-industrialized for a reason; Manufacturing jobs as well. The only products/services in the U.S. are and will be agriculture (factory farms, tenant farmers), military defense weapons, a large pool of sociopathic military soldiers and police, any government jobs, and of course retail/ service jobs. That's it! "Competition is sin" -J.D. Rockefeller
@jhunted7667 The federally mandated minimum wage is the primary reason why jobs are leaving the US and unemployment is so high. Minimum wage laws are supposed to stop employers from offering wages that are considered to be "too low." In an attempt to protect workers, minimum wage laws actually turn out to hurt workers by causing unemployment.
@wallstreetatheist that actually has very little or nothing to do with it. The issue is how the competition makes its rules vs how we make ours. In most places in the US the minimum wage we currently have isnt even enough to live on, paying someone even less would be considered nearly equal to not paying them at all.
@wallstreetatheist the primary reason why jobs are leaving the US is because its legal for corporations to do so to exploit workers and tax shelters in other countries. If it was illegal for them to do so, we would never have that problem.
The reason why the US is losing the trade war is because some countries are even better at cheating than the US is now.
You need to change alot of laws before changing the minimum wage law otherwise it just hurts people.
How we got into the mess LOL AIG,Goldman Sachs. What a joke! We were sold out folks, By all there laws and stupider rules,Fascism is alive and lives in Washington!
MrMrEinstein 1 year ago
i thought the problem whas that there is was no controll over the markeds, like when the banks gave to much loan. By the way i belive that capitalism is an unfair system. When did the capitalists ever give any rights to the people?? if they always had their way, we would have worked 12-16 hour shifts and got payed like rats.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven Since when has it ever been a company owners responsibility to provide you your rights? Don't like the hours? Quit.
Capitalism is the reason twits like you have most if not all the nice things you have now. Like the computer you are bitching about capitalism on.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas Capitalism did not create computers and most of my stuff. smart people did that. I belive that a strong regulated capitalism is ok but the way it is now aint, because it wastes resaurces in a short amount of time and gives most of it to a few percent of the world.
60 years ago or so there was a pure capitalistic west and the work would be hell. The capitalists did everything they could to make sure that workers didnt get their rights and that is still their goal. thats not ok.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven And those smart people did all that for the good of mankind huh? Riiiight. 60 years? You and history are ill acquainted. Try over 100 years ago and those were statist Oligarchs you are talking about. Anything that looked like real free markets died in 1916 here. So what industries would you like to see more regulated? Don't say banking, insurance, oil, logging, auto manufacture or mining in the USA.... they have the most regulations of all and look where they are now.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPea you do not belive there was a free marked in the 40 and 50`s?, if not then what was it? it sure wasnt regulated. No i do not belive in regulated industries, but stuff that deals with people, like medicine etc should be state controlled if you aske me. the banking and insurance industry in the usa was not well regulated before the crack. One reason for that crack, was no federal controll. Sorry you can dream on and on about 100% capitalism and ron paul but its a fairytale, doesnt work.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven After 1913 the monetary controls/manipulations at a Federal level killed any chance os a free market. Again, you know nothing of US history. Asking for state control of all people oriented services like medicine is pure slavery. Maybe you should think about why. It's no mystery. Our banks were regulated and remain so. By the people THEY pay to put in office. They are controlled by a central authority who picks who wins and who loses.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas That you think our banks were unregulated is a joke. The CRA(something you know nothing about) opened a regulatory door literally forcing banks to lend to those unqualified under the pretense that everyone deserved to own their own home regardless of income. Then the response to the collapse was to take the very people who brought that silliness to full steam and make them members of the government. Look at Obamas staff. A who's who of Goldman Sachs and Lehman.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas n the 40's and 50's those people would be in jail along with the Senators that abated them. How's that for regulations? Now that grand Socialist hoax in the White House makes them regulators.
Yeah.... that big government thing is working out real well.
Man, stick to your video games and silly movies, reality is too deep for you.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPe true i do not have supreme knowlegde of us marked history, but i dont get what you meen by free marked? As far as i know there is mostly a free marked today, with some rools, but im sure those rooles are necesary. if you want to get back to the 1800, good luck. Free capitalism creates poor people and rich people, that is something im againts, im for a mix of capitalism and socialism, but not slavery, as long as it is the taxpayers who owns the state socialism doesnt have to be bad
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven Socialism creates poor and rich people. With Socialism you replace the capitalist with the bureaucrat. The results are more negative as socialism removes incentive. The earning class has less incentive to produce(work hard) when half the money is forceable taken. The non earners who are coddled by the state via taxes are incentivized to remain as such.
Your inference that there was no economic divisions (rich v. poor) in the 1800s is totally false, blatant leftist propaganda.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPe offcource there was a huger difference between rich and po in the 18s, even kids had to work in a poor community to put food on the table. How can you say that capitalism doesnt create gaps between peoples wellfare?
And once again what do you meen by free marked?? no rools to follow ? i dont think we are talking about the same system, i do not meen communism but a capitalistic socialism, ever heard about ballance?. the rich is afraid to give some money back to the common man (tax).
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven And there is still, in EVERY country a difference between rich and poor. Including your country. It is inevitable. It's a human condition. There is no such thing as Socialist capitalism. There is either one or the other. This country(USA) is currently a left leaning fascism. A free market is where people are allowed to do business and keep the proceeds of their labors. So long as they hurt no one they need not fear government intrusion. Again rich give BACK to poor?
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas The "rich" only "owe" the "poor" what they contract with those persons vis a vi their contractual obligations regarding the labor of said "Poor". Other than that they owe nothing. Your suppositions that a person of means owes anyone he has no contract as enforced by one sided involuntary social contract through force of arms is advocacy of theft.
Dude, the rights of the "poor" are not the responsibility of the wealthy.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas yes but we should try to make that difference smaller no matter how long that takes. Yes there is something like that, in fact thats what we have had in my contry for a long time and it has worked well untill now. We have come under a sudden change for the worse, laws from the eu and our own politicians that makes it harder for buisnis, work and the everyday life. USA is far from a left leaning country compared to many countries in the eu, fascism i doubt you have though also.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven Fascism= private ownership of companies controlled under the dictum of government. We have that in buckets. The people who are responsible for the wellbeing and advancement of the poor are the poor themselves. Exclusively.
You are stuck in the social paradigm that someone who achieves is beholden to those whom did nothing to help him. When you have a government forcing achievers to support underachievers you have tyranny. That is unacceptable. I will agree.... the EU SUCKS!
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPe most companies in the usa aint controlled by the state, if that was true, do you know how big your byro would have to be? i belive that is wrong, belive in helping the poor to help themselves, that is a good part of socialism. We had cp socialism since the 40s here and like i said it worked mighty well untill now, its almost like poeple have no say no more, every party are almost the same right or left, so its hard to vote for good change. the eu would be cool if it was democratic,
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven Every company and their actions are controlled in USA. Yes, our government IS that big and growing. No, companies in USA are not just allowed to do as they please(except for the "to big to fail" banks who are in firm ownership of the Congress) as their actions are regulated and there are departments that regulate them. Don't tell me about business in USA until YOU have read to US Commercial Code. I run business's here. I presume you don't so kindly don't tell me how it is.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas Yeah, I believe in helping the deserving poor help themselves too. I don't believe in being forced to do it at gunpoint. That's Socialism. Your EU experience is typical of Socialism. They( a few elitists) consolidate power and wealth. Take what THEY deem the appropriate amount of the productive parties earnings and use it as they see fit regardless of the producers wishes. Kinda sounds like the false interpretation of capitalism you are promoting, doesn't it?
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas yes i do help run a business, but not i the usa no. well what do you meen by controlled, if it is controll to ensure no corruption, blackmarked hiring and ohter crimminal stuff, dont you think its okei? but sure when goverment starts to say you must do that and that and this over small things its different, thats how it has become here. i checked that code out and it just seemed like sale rools, i guess it lookes a bit much, but it is nececary to have some terms.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven You could not have read the whole US Commercial Code in one day. Sorry. It is thousands of pages of twisted, arcane language that requires the expertise of Lawyers to decipher. It is NOT a mere list of sales rules. Man, the UCC for banking is hundreds of pages alone. That is more than just merely "some terms".
There are laws to try and prevent corruption. They are enforced by the most corrupt people in the country.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas Our commercial and business codes and rules are so convoluted and confusing that whole companies have started up that do nothing but advise businesses how to stay in compliance. THAT is ridiculous. I don't just "help" run a business here. I run a few of my own. Every year it gets harder and more expensive.
The liability alone is breathtaking. Because of fees and regulations and minimum financial responsibilities imposed artificially by the state I will be laying people off.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas THAT is what all this socialism and control and taxation ultimately causes.
Poverty.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas over-taxation and under-taxation are both problems...
Biggest problem people have is not understanding that while government can have too much power... so also can private citizens.
Balance is needed.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction Under taxation is only a problem if you over spend. Living within reasonable means eliminates that. We should do so. In a nation under a constitutional rule of law the citizens are equally protected(or the foundation of such is provided) and no private citizen truly has power over another. What we have now is a ridiculous government that is overly influenced by private entities. I give you the outrageous Kelo decision. That was predicated on the promise higher taxation.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction i agree on that. zero taxetion is madness, unless your a social darwinist.
Troforso 2 months ago
certainly... plus the less the government has power in a capitalist country.. the more likely specific private citizens do...
If you dont have the proper balance, its no longer capitalism, its monetary monopolized polygarchy
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction Not necessarily. This country was doing well prior to taxation of income by force of arms. You do realize the first highway system and railroads were built privately? My Grandfather established the water district my city uses now. He cut the first road between my town and the one 8 miles over hill away. Strung the first phone lines from our town to another 7 miles away. Privately and with permission of the involved land holders.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@WurledPeas there were taxes back in the day, they just werent the same kind... Never claimed the taxes had to come from federal dollars.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction There were very few taxes. Very few. Now I pay well in excess of 50%. And they generally paid for the private wishes of a minority made public.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@WurledPeas i did not say that i read it all, what i did read was from wikipedia, i guessed that should give a clue of what it was. Well we do atleast agree on that there are many errors in the us goverment and that system, but we wil not agree on capitalism vs socialism. The thing is though, i do somehow belive that they are both good systems on the paper, but non of them are working at this moment. Like i said socialism worked well here in norway from after ww2 and up to the 1990s.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven Don't believe what wikipedia says. It's edited by agenda driven idiots with opinions rather than facts, more often than not. Socialism always runs dry because it squelches personal initiative. Why work when others will support you? Capitalism works because it makes everyone is made to work. There is reward in personal achievement and entrepreneurship that does not exist when the producer is severely limited in his returns as happens in socialism.
Thats how the EU happened.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas Well wikepedia is okei, cause you can allways check out where the facts comes from. What socialism tries to do, is to create no loosers. No most folks that could work did work in norway and the working spirrit was high. But now that the politicians in power doesnt give a f#ck about what the woters belive and therefore doesnt reflect on the common person the picture getts very different and the result is with the next election we will sadly get a bush like party at power.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven They government can only create losers. No governance is capable of crating success. It's the individual that determines whether they win or lose. Everyone should stand at equal lengths in the eye of the government. I agree. But thats not what socialism tries to do. It tries to guarantee not equality of chance but rather equal results regardless of input. That's not right. It is tyranny to those who work harder and do more.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPeas tyranny is where the power is... if a country has more power in the private sector, thats where the tyranny will be. You cant escape tyranny by placing power to a different group. You have to take away the ability for anyone to have more power than another.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction I have not seen microsoft or Ford murder whole populations. I have seen it happen a government. You would prevent one group from having power by centralizing it with yet another group? Your own argument cancels itself out.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@WurledPeas indeed thats true... however thats not true for coca cola, or designer clothes companies. Or Dole Bananas.
lol see look those up, then youll cringe. Especially Dole Bananas.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction I need not look it up. I own a farm not far from one of Dole's pineapple plantations in Philippines. You fail to mention one thing: It was government that facilitated those thefts of properties and murders. It was not the sugar and cattle moguls who took Hawaii or lands in Honduras for corporate interests. It was the Marines and army. I doubt I need to mention it to you but others may want to read "War is a Racket by Gen. Smedley Butler.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@WurledPeas yes I heard, they were able to level off the blame... however coca cola wasnt able to do that.... neither were designer clothes companies.... nike... etc.
hell even firestone has issues in mexico, a few other american companies do the same thing just south of the border, and use intimidation tactics just like the cartel does.
point being, dont just fear governments, fear power in general, its not always the governments that have it.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction And they would not have the same clout without government to do their bidding. They utilize despots to get what they want. There is no leveling off of blame. They want something they cannot get so they bribe a government to enforce their wants. The despot gets a bribe. The local tax payer finances his own oppression and the corporation profits. Not all big corporations chose this tactic yet most governments have and many(ours, China, Russia ect.) still do. It's inevitable.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@WurledPeas also my main argument is, dont fall for the capitalism vs communism gag... its a propaganda machine. There never really was communism in russia or china... they were military dictatorships using economics for propaganda. I mean lets get real here. Government getting too much power is bad. I totally agree. However in the US, Americans dont seem to understand its not the government thats controlling things, its corporatism.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction It's more than propaganda. It has become a religion. One willing to eat your children to enforce it's doctrines. It's not so simple as mere propaganda. And yeah, there are elements of the corporate elite running things, but make no mistake. The polar opposite in the bureaucrat ranks are doing their share to eliminate freedom as well.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@WurledPeas yes poor folks are necesary in a capitalistic world, to make things go around. Do you ever think that huge companies wold give back money to a country in africa, even though that company takes their resaurces for almost no money, make a product and earns alot of money?. Capitalism is: if you are strong you win and if you are weak you will suffer.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven Show me where I said poor people are unnecessary. The remainder of your statement is NOT capitalism. It's theft. Usually supported by government i.e. colonialism of Europeans over Africans and Asians. Or, theft by complicity of two governments, the victim nation and the suppressor. Such as goes on today.
Capitalism is a mutual agreement to the benefit of all involved without any coercion.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@WurledPe it is how capitalism opperates do you really think that most companies put morale before money? Thats not how it would be, competition is both good and bad, one way to win is to cheat and that is a back side of capitalism. "Show me where I said poor people are unnecessary" if you meen that, that shows a egoistic side and thats what many capitalists are. ps i wrote some bullsh down here i see, but that how it gets when wrigting to fast.
Kikkankleiven 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven I fail to see where your putting words into my mouth makes me an egotist. People start companies to do what? That's right, earn money. They are not there to give rights they do not possess to anyone. Take a serious look at the waste government spending causes as opposed to a private entity. Governments toss money away and there are few immediate consequences. A private entity does that and the go out of business, unless their friends in government "bail" them out.
WurledPeas 1 year ago
@Kikkankleiven its not capitalism that causes that... its corporatism... big difference... theres youtube videos on this that will set you straight
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
Comment removed
WurledPeas 2 months ago
@eddieisfiction Pardon my previous reply to the above statement. I misread who it was addressed to.
WurledPeas 2 months ago
stiglitz is a huge keynesian
DeRocco21 2 years ago
The West brand this if it happens in Africa as CORRUPTION.Please tell me how this is not Corruption.
aMERICA IS CRUMBLING BECAUSE OF INSTITUTIONALISED CORRUPTION, Call a spade a Spade
estorpai 2 years ago
good point at the end!!!
tepstolog 2 years ago
Our problems began when we started having trade relations with communist countries.
MathewsWire 2 years ago
we need competition to keep prices down and quality up in our own products , now we don't make anything anymore , so either we make products again or we starve
jhunted7667 2 years ago 6
We were de-industrialized for a reason; Manufacturing jobs as well. The only products/services in the U.S. are and will be agriculture (factory farms, tenant farmers), military defense weapons, a large pool of sociopathic military soldiers and police, any government jobs, and of course retail/ service jobs. That's it! "Competition is sin" -J.D. Rockefeller
ddarko2012 2 years ago
Then they better save one of those F E M A boxes for me.
Because I'll be needing it directly.
I was born a free man and I intend to die one.
MathewsWire 2 years ago
@jhunted7667 The federally mandated minimum wage is the primary reason why jobs are leaving the US and unemployment is so high. Minimum wage laws are supposed to stop employers from offering wages that are considered to be "too low." In an attempt to protect workers, minimum wage laws actually turn out to hurt workers by causing unemployment.
wallstreetatheist 4 months ago
@wallstreetatheist the only choice for people of Conscience that want to save the nation as a Constitutional republic must vote for Ron Paul ,
jhunted7667 4 months ago 2
@jhunted7667 I agree. Just donated $20.12 to his campaign.
wallstreetatheist 4 months ago
@wallstreetatheist that actually has very little or nothing to do with it. The issue is how the competition makes its rules vs how we make ours. In most places in the US the minimum wage we currently have isnt even enough to live on, paying someone even less would be considered nearly equal to not paying them at all.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago
@wallstreetatheist the primary reason why jobs are leaving the US is because its legal for corporations to do so to exploit workers and tax shelters in other countries. If it was illegal for them to do so, we would never have that problem.
The reason why the US is losing the trade war is because some countries are even better at cheating than the US is now.
You need to change alot of laws before changing the minimum wage law otherwise it just hurts people.
eddieisfiction 2 months ago