Flyers / Oilers '87 Finals Game 6 Highlight Video (6 of 7)

[IWouldWin]

Best finals ever. The Flyers could have actually beaten the Oilers, but they couldn't possibly beat the Oilers AND the cheating referees. I don't think there's any question that the NHL has the worst officiating in pro sports and that they do cheat certain teams, the Flyers unquestionably being at the very top of that list because of the Broad St. Bullies etc.

[BIGRED224FOREVER]

Yes MR. Hart the 87 series was indeed glorious!

[JUSTWATCHWRESTLING]

the night the spectrum truly shook...

[719sikora]

Unbelievable perfomance by Hextall.

[DaveTV2]

For the record, there is STILL no way that the Edmonton Oilers were somehow a better team without Paul Coffey then with. It is an idiotic thing to suggest. You do NOT get addition from subtraction! ; )

[M26MASH]

Gene(Hart) in 2011 this still gives true sports / hockey fans chills............in all honesty, this was as good as it gets. I was 7 years old and remember my father and our neighbor going INSANE when JJ secord that goal. This series was truly a classic, and while the Flyers lost, Philly was behind their boys!

[Halgrim]

Turn the Soviet Red Army marching music off and you'd have a good video.

[DaveTV2]

@Halgrim First of all, it is not "Soviet Red Army Music". It is called "They're Here" from the Incredible Hulk Soundtrack. Second, assuming your computer comes with a volume control, if you do not like it turn it down or better yet, don't watch. Third, and maybe most importantly, whenever you make a video even half as good without or without the music then maybe you can criticize.

[TheNung]

@Halgrim wtf? the music is the best part. makes me want to fight a canadian

[AutoBombed]

epic

[StalkerJamforx]

I agree that '87 was the best regular season they ever had, but I still think that the '88 team was the best overall team I have ever seen. And it was the best I think I have ever seen Gretzky play outside of international competition (especially Canada Cup '87)

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Well, you are entitled to think that but EVERY statistical piece of evidence says otherwise. Even their 88 playoff stats.

Gretzky? He is an individual and that is a different story. But even there, in 86-87 he played in 79 Games & had 62G, 121A for 183pts for a+70. In 87-88 he only played 64 games for 40G, 109A, 149pts for a +39. His PPG was basically identical. Yes he had a much better playoff run PERSONALLY in 88 but remember, he played in 15 less games getting there.

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Sorry for the multiple messages but I can't help myself. Everything says you are wrong but you don't seem to see it. Consider this, when comparing the playoff years in '87 they scored a total of 87 goals (3 more games played), in 88 they scored almost the same at 84. Now we agree Gretzky had a better playoff run PERSONALLY in 88. In 87 he only had 5 goals. in 88 more than double at 12. What does that tell you? Gretzky was better in 88 than in 87 but the TEAM was worse.

[StalkerJamforx]

Probably the greatest playoff series I have watched in my life! Kudos to the Flyers for having the heart (and the Hextall) to hang with the Oilers and make a series of it (unlike Boston and others).

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Could not agree more.

Interesting note on what you said about the Flyers hanging with them. In the Oilers other 4 Stanley Cup finals victories they lost a TOTAL of 3 games. The Flyers beat them 3 times in this series alone. What they did was remarkable. Last year's run was great and the Boston series historic but I still think they fell just a bit short of that the '87 team accomplished against superior opponents.

[StalkerJamforx]

@DaveTV2 I think the '88 team was the best I have ever seen, but the '87 playoff run was more entertaining and memorable because of how well the Flyers performed. '88 was memorable because it was Gretzky's curtain call, but the Bruins did not make a series of it like Philly. Plus, how many 7 game final series do you get to see?!

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Just curious as to why you think the 88 team was better than the 87 team. 87-88 was the first time since 80–81 that the Oilers did not win the division, break the 100 point barrier, or lead the NHL in goals. They had lost Coffey & you can't replace a guy like that so even on paper they were not as good of a team as the 86-87 Oilers. Sure they won the cup by sweeping the Bruins but that only goes to show you how much better they were than everyone else.

[StalkerJamforx]

@DaveTV2 Coffey was my second or third favorite player, but most of the players felt, and I would agree, that they were the best overall team in '88. Mostly because they were so good defensively. They were always the best offensively, but I thought they were a little more rounded and amazing defensively in '88. A lot of great role players. Plus, some guys like McSorely and Krushelinsky (sp?) became great team role players instead of just tough guys or fourth liners. '87 regular season was!!

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Of course they would say that. What else are they going to say? We are not as good as we were last year? Problem is facts are what they are. On paper they were not as good. In addition to the results I stated previously here are some more. '86-87 50W, 106pts, GF 372, GA 284 Finished #1 overall. '87-88 44W, 99pts, GF 363 GA 288 #3 overall! They gave up MORE goals in 87-88 making them WORSE defensively.

McSorley was more than just a tough guy in '87. He scored 2 goals in game 5.

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Now should we discuss the playoffs? You can get a very telling GPG comparison here. In both years they played 14 games getting to the finals. In 87 they gave up 39 goals in 14 games. In 88 they gave up 44 in 14 games.

The finals are tougher to compare with such a disparity in games played but the averages are VERY close: 2.5 GAPG in '87 & 2.25 GAPG in '88. That said, if you add the 3 they gave up in the 1 per plus in the game that was canceled, once again the edge goes to '87.

[aerospacer1]

Absolutely Beautiful! Nothing is better than old time ruff ass hockey!

[lofemofe]

Samuelson almost kills Anderson, holy shit.

[DaveTV2]

@lofemofe I won't excuse it but Anderson was wicked with his stick the entire series and very little was called. He has it wrapped around Sutter's neck in game 1, Cut Samuelsson here hence the retaliation. Although the puck was lose, he was the one who whacked Hextall with his stick in gm 4 which cause him to go medieval on Nilsson. He high sticked Zezel at 7:36 of this video that gave the Flyers the PP which allowed Propp to tie it. Cost them the game IMO cause the Flyers had NOTHING going on.

[sanQ]

The save Hextall made at 4:42 was just unreal. This game was a huge influence on my own goaltending to play like Hextall did. He played with passion. This was a great game, one of the best of all time I think.

[Rockhound6165]

It was obvious the officials were pro-Edmonton in this series. Just look at this game. A goal that was clearly kicked in counted and then they let obvious penalties go on Edmonton and called ticky tack penalties on the Flyers. The Flyers won the game anyway but the NHL was not going to let the Flyers win the Cup.

[DaveTV2]

@Rockhound6165 I am as big a Flyers fan as there is but I am not sure you can blame the officiating in this series. Hell, they gave the Flyers a 2 man advantage to open game 7 which allowed them to score the first goal for the 1st time in the series.

On Lowe's goal, I am not even sure by today's standards with replay they would have not called that a goal. I would love to say he did, but I can't see where Lowe ever made a "distinct kicking motion". I do believe he knew what he was doing though.

[philluso]

Dave, can I get a soundtrack on this video? Especially the first theme.

Thanks

[DaveTV2]

@philluso No problem.

The opening song is called "They're Here" from the Incredible Hulk Soundtrack. The song that begins in the second period is called "Harlem Brawl" also from the Incredible Hulk soundtrack. The last song that begins with the third period is called "Show Me Your Firetruck" from the Backdraft soundtrack.

I did not realize till now how appropriate the title "They're Here" is for this particular game. I only thought about it from a musical point of view and what fit the mood.

[trulysarcastic]

I'm an Isles fan so I have no love for either team. You have to remember a few facts. The Oilers got to play three teams hovering around .500 each year and then play a tired eastern team. Second, the Flyers pushed it to game 7 without Tim Kerr! a 4 time 50 goal scorer who was 6'3 and 225 pds. Bryan Trottier had this say about Kerr: Trottier once joked that "the only way to stop Kerr was to wrap chains around his arms and legs.",that still probably would not stop him."

[DaveTV2]

There is no doubting the difference Kerr would have made in this series. All other things being equal it is safe to assume they would have won. That said, the biggest factor in this series was the play of Hextall. He played probably the best series any goalie has ever played. Just look at the quality and quantity of scoring chances he faced. That series SHOULD have been over in 4.

[RageOfTheTiger]

hockey is still great, but will never match these times in the 80's where the real passion was. my 3 favorite teams then, oilers, flyers and kings (cause Luc was the awesome!). I was a big oiler fan, fuhr was my idol, I had fond memories but they'd blurred over the years. Looking back hextall sure was one hell of a goalie. its very touching to see this and the music adds all the more to it. i wished flyers would have gotten a cup then, they deserved it.

[DaveTV2]

@RageOfTheTiger Great comment. Thanks for sharing.

I agree Luc was an AWESOME player but I do still think that Hextall deserved rookie of the year that year. Luc had a remarkable season for a Rookie but in the end Hextall did so much more by carrying his team which was marred by injuries to the brink of the cup. Just not sure how you can't give it to a guy like that who wound up doing so much as a rookie playing one of the toughest positions in pro sports. Just my opinion.

[sanQ]

@DaveTV2 I too agree. Hextall should have been rookie of the year. He led his team to the Stanley Cup Finals as a rookie. If that doesn't make rookie of the year, which it obviously doesn't, I'll be damned...and I was. I'm still mildly choked about that.

[DaveTV2]

@sanQ Yea, it does not make much sense. Luc had a great reg season with 45G, 39A in 79 games. He only had 1 goal and 4 assists in 5 games in the playoffs losing to the Oilers.

On the other hand, Hextall, set an NHL record for minutes played in both the Reg season AND playoffs. He won the Vezina as the best goalie. He only lost the Jennings on the last game of the season after a horrid 9-5 loss. Took his team the the 7th game of the finals in a MUCH more important position. I don't get it.

[StalkerJamforx]

@sanQ You guys all realize that the votes are cast before the playoffs begin right?!??!???

[DaveTV2]

@StalkerJamforx Votes for what?

[MegaPr1me]

I've watched all the highlight videos and I must say that they were well put together. I'm an Edmonton Oiler fan but I have to give the Flyers some props for playing their hearts out in this series. Ron Hextall was deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy that year. I know it was difficult for Flyers fans to see this team lose two finals in the 80's to the same Oiler team. Being from the same city as Tim Kerr,he certainly was a great player and he could have made a difference for the Flyers.

[DaveTV2]

Thanks MegaPr1me, much appreciated. I like hearing things like that from Oilers fans. Lets me know I did them right. You are right about what it was like to have to face and loose to that Oiler team in the Finals twice in 3 years. That team was just remarkable. Imagine the damage they would be doing today with the way the rules are. What you said about Kerr is right on. All other things being equal, with him on the Ice the Flyers probably would have won. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[iLoveMEsomeME81]

Does Gene Hart EVER call a save? It's like he ignores all of the great Hextall saves! "shot on...Hextall covers." It's horrible! what a letdown!

[castaway50]

in watching these highlights, there are times when it appears that the oilers have at least 7 men on the ice in the offensive zone...

[DaveTV2]

Gretzky, Messier and Kurri each count as 2!

[jmdjmd0505]

How friggin good was Gene Hart.

[ShadowStalker999]

Is it just me or did Messier always have that stupid looking smile on his face?

[DaveTV2]

Kind of like Jack Nicholson as the Joker in Batman.

[emptynet1]

Lost my voice for several days from this game,,, ears were ringing after Daigneault goal,, what a night it was in the old Spectrum....

[dreluva13]

Suppie....the announcers were Flyers announcers if you didn't notice....which is why they sounded rather impartial. And yes injuries certainly affected the Flyers, by game 7 they were just about spent but they gave a tremendous effort and almost pulled off an incredible upset. The Oilers were never challenged like that in any of their other series.

[DaveTV2]

To your point about the Oilers never being challenged like that. You are absolutely right. They only lost 2 games that year getting the the finals. The Flyers played two 6 gm series and one 7 game series getting there. In addition, here is a very telling stat about how good that Oiler team was and what the Flyers were able to do. In their 4 other Stanley Cup victories, they lost a TOTAL of 3 games. The Flyers were able to beat them 3 games in that series alone WITHOUT their top scorer in Kerr.

[HisMajestyBobbyOrr]

The speed of this game was incredible. It was almost as fast as todays game. Im amazed the Flyers still had enough energy to win this won, after what, 117 games (including pre-season) said the announcer? Incredible.

[suppie100]

These commentators have to be these least impartial(sp) pieces of shit. Wow...

[TakingTheFall71]

kill yourself

[suppie100]

Haha, with the luck of the flyers..the sacrifice of a persons life is the only way they'll win a cup.

[DaveTV2]

That is a good idea. Lets give it a try and start with yours!

BTW, they have won 2 and sacrificed no one to get them.

[wxcbs]

I was there. Outside the lockerroom waiting to do postgame. I thought the building was gonna implode! Brings a tear to my eye thinking about it. Awesome!

[jayhawk88z]

this made me a Flyer fan

[MikeMoran1983]

greatest flyers game ever I was 3 I always watch it on DVD and when its on ESPN classic

[DaveTV2]

Personally, I still think game 3 was better. 3 goal come back vs a 2 goal comeback in game 6. More historic because it was the first time in finals history that was done. Series equally as on the line because if they lost game 3 it was 3 games to 0 and basically over. Just my opinion.

[MikeMoran1983]

oh yeah I forgot about that I was only 3 but still,everybody says that was the best team ever and the flyers didnt let them winn it all easy,I mean everone was hurt and a rookie goalie got them that far,since then the flyers have been to 1 stanley cup finals,but coming back 3-0 against a team like that is memorable

[DaveTV2]

Without a doubt my favorite Flyers team. There were others that followed that may have had more skill but NONE have had the heart of that team.

Regarding what they did to Edmonton, here is a telling factoid: In the other four cup finals series they won (84, 85, 88, 90), they only lost a combined 3 games. As you know, the Flyers beat them three times in that series alone. Sure says something.

Game 5 is another unbelievable game when you look at it.

[iLoveMEsomeME81]

ha, yes i am bored. Emrick and Clement also called this series. I'm guessing it was for the national version of the Finals, but I cant even remember if they were broadcasted nationally back then. I enjoyed Gene Hart, I just feel like he missed alot of the goaltending when he called games. I was a goalie, and Hextall was my favorite, so it's disappointing. I know that on the Emrick/Clement version they talk nonstop about Hextall. they both LOVED him. I guess that is the better version for me.

[DaveTV2]

Personally I would take Gene Hart any day of the week. I was also a goalie and a HUGE Hextall fan and feel no disappointment in his call whatsoever. That "Ron Hextall Career highlights music video" on the "GenerationXFiles" page is mine as well.

Nothing beats the sound of Gene Hart shitting his pants in this game as Messier knocked down Hextall's clearing attempt. Gene let his love for the team and his emotions for the team come through in his call of the game. That is what made him special.

[Crawford1987]

Watching this series and seeing how the Flyers continually came back on the Oilers in game 5 and 6, and with their huge comeback in game 3, I always wonder why they couldn't do it in game 7. Perhaps it was that they were out of gas? Maybe it was because their game 6 win was like winning it all in way, cause they did what no one though they could (taking the Oilers to a 7th game)? Or maybe their injuries and the loss of Kerr finally caught up to them and Edmonton just stepped on the peddle..? IDK

[iLoveMEsomeME81]

"shot..right on!" jesus did he ever describe how great the saves Hextall was making??? wow. very disappointing to look back and hear the way Gene Hart called the goaltending. Where's the great Mike Emrick when you need him?

[DaveTV2]

Dude, are you bored or something? You are jumping from video to video complaining about the way a game was called over 20 years ago and picking on a guy who just so happens to be a Hall of Fame announcer.

Where was Mike Emrick? He was in Philly doing the Flyers intermission specials learning first hand how to call a game from Gene Hart!

Gene hart was one of the best and I doubt very highly that you could do any better so please give it a rest!

[ECWnWWF]

I don't mean defense as the positions...I mean their defense as a team...watch how many times they are position to strip a puck carrier...often in the puck carrier's own zone...or how often they read a play and intercept a pass, again often times in the other teams zone or the neutral zone...so then that potent offense has no one really between them and the opposing goalie...their constant pressure, etc....that's what I meant by their defense

[DaveTV2]

I suppose you can look at it that way. I just see them as a team STACKED with talent. They were about as perfect and well rounded as a hockey team can be. Some of the greatest offensive talent ever, great defense lead by Coffey who has the ability to go end to end and score, Great goaltending with Fuhr and Moog, TWO of the greatest leaders the game has ever seen in Messier and Gretzky and they even had toughness with McSorley & McClelland. They were just damn good in all facets of the game.

[Borgata44]

Thank you so much for this video. I was 9 when this game was played. I remember I almost had a seizure when Hexy ALMOST blew the game in the closing seconds. To this day: One of the greatest games I've ever seen- in any sport.

[DaveTV2]

No problem. Glad you enjoyed it. I was 16 when it happened. Yes, when Messier knocked down that clearing attempt I almost died.

As far as the game itself, goes, no doubt it was a great one but I still think game 3 was better. By game 6 they already came back to win twice so they knew they could do it. Game 3 they were down by THREE goals on their home ice and had not even won a game yet. If they went down 3-0 in the series it would have been over. Just my opinion!

[ECWnWWF]

I think the Oilers defense is what made their offense so explosive in the 80's. They probably averaged 4 Goals per game in that series against Hexy...but the Flyers had trouble sustaining much offense...the Oilers were good at reading & reacting to plays, and if ya watch closely they were dirty in a sneaky sort of way...

Hextall should be in the HOF too...he's the first Goaltender to score on a shot attempt, and he did it twice.

[DaveTV2]

I am not sure their defense had a whole lot to do with the success of their Offense. Look at the names they had on their front lines! Gretzky, Anderson, Messier, Kuri and then you have arguably the best offensive Defenseman in NHL history in Paul Coffey following them up the ice.

You must also remember in the beginning of their run their defense was pretty bad and they did it ALL with offense. It was really not till 87 that they had a respectable defense. Their goaltending was always very good.

[ECWnWWF]

As potent and awesome as the Oilers offense was.....one would have to give Grant Fuhr his due, there was a handful of moments in this series where he was standing on his head too

[DaveTV2]

Totally agree but who is not giving him his due? He is now a NHL Hall of Famer. I am not sure how much more "due" that you can give a person. Hexy is the one who needs a little "due" and some HOF consideration in my opinion!

Fuhr did make some great saves in the series but in the end he really did not have to be great to win. Look at game 7. The Flyers had 6 shots combined in the 2nd & 3rd periods with only 2 of them in the 3rd! The Oilers had a very underrated defense that year!

[iLoveMEsomeME81]

I believe this to be the greatest goaltending performance in the history of the NHL. It's just incredible to watch. Imagine the pressure...and that offense just keeps coming. I don't think God himself could have outplayed Hextall in this series.

[GenerationXFiles]

It is remarkable to say the least. There have been some great performances but none of them were against a team as potent and talented as the Oilers. And none of them were put into a position where they had to fight back from the amount of 2 and 3 goal deficits as Hextall was. He should be in the HOF for what he did in this series alone! We played better than Fuhr in this series who actually won the cup. To keep him out because he did not win one is kind of hypocritical.

[tihlor]

hockey will never be this good again

[Crawford1987]

Brian Propp was my favorite player on this Flyers team...man, he was so good!

[BalSagoth]

Is that the theme music from Iron Chef at the end there ? Haha.. inspirational stuff.

One of the greatest playoff series ever, thanks a lot for posting it. That was a great shot from Propp that found the top shelf, he and Poulin had amazing releases. It's nice to see games from before your time, I doubt the NHL will ever be this gritty again.

[DaveTV2]

Can't say I have ever watched Iron Chef but for the record That song was from Backdraft.

[chrisuncleahmad]

Judging by the fact that you are a Flyers fan,

could you maybe upload some highlights of Recchi and Brindamour's great plays?

The 1992-93 team was entertaining and showed that times were better.

Oh, and could you upload the 1985 Nordiques series?

[DaveTV2]

OUCH! That would require me watching every game I have from that perspective. Hextall and this series was easy for me because I knew it so well. In the end I am not sure I would have enough to make any kind of a worth while Recchi or Brind'amour highlight video. I did not tape everything and taped much less by the mid 90's.

The 92-93 team? UGH! They were second to last in the division with only 83 points! Definitely rebuilding!

'85 was before I had a VCR!! I have nothing of that series. Sorry!

[OilersCanadasTeam]

Even more on the 83 Islanders: that team didn't have the speed the 87 Flyers had. The Sutter brothers weren't very fast, Bossy wasn't the quickest either. Trottier had OK speed. Bourne was the fastest. Even the Islander defence was nothing to brag about in terms of speed. But they were great positional players. They played their positions better than anybody in history except the 76-79 Canadiens. Thats how they beat the Oilers. Great forechecking and being in the right place at the right time.

[DaveTV2]

Maybe not but the 87 Flyers were not known for their speed either. They did have a couple of guys who could skate like Eklund but they had others like Marsh who was slow as molasses! In they end they clearly spent a lot of time being spun through like a turnstile and chasing the Oilers around the ice. Maybe faster than the 83 Iles but FAR slower than the Oilers.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

More on the 83 Islanders. Like the 87 Flyers, they were NOT expected to win. So with this same mentality, they accomplished the unbelievable: sweeping the Oilers. Yes the Oilers were inexperienced, but does that mean they were easy to beat? Not a chance. The Oilers had 20 power plays in the series, scoring only 1 power play goal. Great PK by the Islanders no doubt. The Islanders didn't have the speed the 87 Flyers had either. Thats just my opinion.

[DaveTV2]

I am not sure how anyone could have counted the 83 Iles out! They were still a damn good team that had shown they could win in the past.

I would never had said the Oilers inexperience made them easy to beat. It just made the 87 team better having the benefit OF that experience which includes losing that series they way they did. It was HUGE in their development of the team they became.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

Do you agree that what the 83 Islanders accomplished was more than what the 87 Flyers did though? Not to take anything away from the 87 Flyers, but the 83 Islanders were up against a great team and swept them in 4 games. As a team, thats just about the greatest thing ever. You hold the third highest scoring team ever to just 6 goals, and none in the first game (they won 2-0 on goals by Duane Sutter and empty net goal by Ken Morrow). They also didn't have Bossy in this game (Flu).

[DaveTV2]

Isn't this basically the same question as below? I think my answer would be the same, simply put yes! They had a MUCH better team effort but I think Hextall had a better individual effort than Smith needed to have. I think was basically the comment that started this whole conversation. "Greatest goaltending performance ever" I think he said.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

I think Im getting the goalies/teams mixed up. The 83 Islanders (as a team) accomplished more than 87 Flyers did. But as a goalie (Hex) accomplished more than Smith did of the Islanders. After seeing all the videos you have posted (all wonderful too!), I see the Oilers scored the first goal of the game in 6 out of 7 games. Only game 7 saw Craven scored on a 5-3 power play. I think you're making a strong case for the greatest goalie performance ever and more people should comment on your videos!

[DaveTV2]

Well I think I would be ignorant not to think that the 83 Islanders as a team accomplished more. The won the cup after all and did it in a very decisive fashion against a very talented team. The 87 Flyers accomplished a lot but what makes it most remarkable is that they were able to keep digging them out of the holes that THEY themselves dug. Although If they had won the Cup in 87 I might have to say no.

Hopefully more people will comment. You are my best customer!

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: correction. I didn't see game 4 of the 83 final live. I was just 2 yrs old at the time LOL. I saw it on ESPN Classic Canada last Christmas. I should have taped it but I didn't. It was the holidays and had guests over. Bad time to watch a game but I still watched it, from beginning to end. Great game, two great teams and the end of the Islander dynasty.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: the team in front of Billy Smith was great no doubt. An experienced team, with great defence. But they still needed a goalie to get the job done. Smith won the Conn Smythe as playoff MVP. He stoned Gretzky time and time again in the series. I saw the complete game 4 in Long Island and was amazed at the saves he made on Gretzky, Coffey and Messier. Just unreal.

[DaveTV2]

I totally agree and that is to say that I said that Billy Smith was not great or had taken something away from him. I only questioned the fire he was under facing a less balanced and less experienced Oilers team compared to Hextall in 87. I even said maybe I was wrong. But I would still find it hard to believe a team as GOOD and experienced with as many HOF players as the Iles had would leave their goalie hung out to dry as often as the 87 Flyers did. How many HOF player on that team? ZERO!

[OilersCanadasTeam]

You got me on that one Dave. I agree, zero HOF's on that 87 Flyer team. But many, many good players like Poulin, Sinisalo, Tocchet, Howe and Crossman. The 87 Oilers had some difficulty in eliminating the Wings (a weak team at the time) in the Conference final. they only scored 16 goals in beating them 4 games to 1. The Oilers in 87 were clearly not on a roll (going into the final) as the 83 Oilers were. Those 83 Oilers demolished a very good Hawks team 4 games to none and outscoring them 25-11.

[DaveTV2]

I would never say that the Flyers that year were not a VERY good team. "Great"? I would say they had more heart as a TEAM than pure skill like the Oilers. The Iles had all their parts, The Flyers were missing their biggest part in Kerr.

Yes BOTH Oiler teams on a roll. the 87 Oilers lost only 2 games getting to the Finals.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: not to take anything away from what Hex did in the 87 final, but I really think what Billy Smith accomplished in 83 was greater, considering how strong those Oilers and the roll they were on at the very time. The Oilers were expected to absolutely destroy the Islanders in the finals. Most experts predicted a very short series with the Oilers on top. But it was the Islanders who destroyed the Oilers outscoring them 17-6 and sweeping them in 4 straight games.

[DaveTV2]

Still think we really need to either see the games or at least some stats to say that for certain one way or another. As you said above Smith had a GREAT team in front of him. But, Smith did NOT face the same Oilers that the Flyers did. Hextall did NOT get the goal support that Smith did, Smith did NOT have to keep his team in it as they continued to play from behind. I DOUBT Smith had the amount of breakaways and odd man breaks that Hextall Did. Smith's team was healthy, Hextall's was not.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

I absolutely agree. I saw game 4 on TV, but thats about it. I want to see more to see if Smith really faced the odd man rushes and breakaways that Hex faced. But would you say, under the circumstances (the Oilers on a roll), what Smith and the Islanders accomplished was great? Or just good?

[DaveTV2]

I think anytime you win the Cup against a quality opponent... especially in a sweep it is a "great" accomplishment. They were a great team. Again, without seeing I just doubt with that team in front of him, as MUCH was on his shoulders. Playing from behind was NOT something the Oilers were used to. It was clear they did that a lot in that series. Which yes, has to do with Smith but ALSO the team in front of him scoring first. Flyers scored 2 whole first period goals in 7 games!

[DaveTV2]

Just had an additional thought on this statement. What is a "greater" and less common accomplishment? Winning the Conn Smythe having played in only 4 games in the finals and winning OR playing in SEVEN games and winning it as the goaltender on the LOOSING team?

Hextall ALSO set the record for reg season & playoff games / minutes played for a goaltender that year. That MUST also be considered when comparing the two. MUCH easier on the goalie when you are playing rested and with a lead!

[OilersCanadasTeam]

Yes youre right there again. I have to agree that Smith and the Islanders in 83 were almost never down and out like the 87 Flyers were time and time again. I think it was only game 2 in Edmonton where the Oilers had a one-goal lead against the Islanders but then it evaporated. Hex was great no doubt. Hey I think its a tie here Dave LOL. We both made some real good points. If Gretzky says Hex is the best goalie he ever played against, then I believe him.

[DaveTV2]

You know you just hit the nail on the head. With all the valid points we both made, Gretzky played against them both and I think HE would know best. I would think that would push the scales into Hextall's favor would it not?

[DaveTV2]

Just one last thought to what you said about what Smith did being a "greater accomplishment" than Hextall in 87. Obviously WINNING the cup is the ultimate accomplishment BUT on top of all else that I mentioned already. Picking yourself up from a 3-1 series deficit where your team is getting TOTALLY out played and pushing a better, more experienced Oiler team to the end of game 7 is one hell of an accomplishment. I know you don't doubt that but think about it all. I think Hextall gets the nod!

[iLoveMEsomeME81]

No, i have seen both series. I disagree immensely with this. Billy Smith was great, but Hextall was nothing short of divine.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: so the Oilers had a great 11-1 record going up against the Islanders in the finals. They outscored their opponents 74-33, an unbeliavable 2.24 to 1 For/Against Ratio. They doubled up on their opposition plus some change. The Blachhawks had the fourth best defence that season and yet the Oilers demolished them 8-4, 8-2, 3-2 and 6-3. Might be the most amazing display of offence against a great defensive team ever.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: these were the scores for the Oilers in the 83 playoffs. G1: Jets 3 at Oilers 6 G2: Jets 3 at Oilers 4 G3: Oilers 4 at Jets 3 G4: Flames 3 at Oilers 6 G5: Flames 1 at Oilers 5 G6: Oilers 10 at Flames 2 G7: Oilers 5 at Flames 6 G8: Flames 1 at Oilers 9 G9: Blackhawks 4 at Oilers 8 G10: Blackhawks 2 at Oilers 8 G11: Oilers 3 at Blackhawks 2 G12: Oilers 6 at Blackhawks 3

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: The Oilers lost at home the next night against the Hawks, but then posted a great 29-9-4 record to close out the season. The Oilers scored 424 goals, 74 more than the Canadiens, the second highest scoring team. Among Campbell Conference teams, the Oilers had 86 goals more than the Hawks, the second highest scoring team in that conference. The playoffs showed the Oilers scoring at an unbelievable pace.

[DaveTV2]

Again, not questioning any of this or that they were indeed a great team then. I never said they were not. BUT as was my point with the 83 Flyers, just because you play great all season and maybe even into the playoffs what matters most is how you play when it counts. In the Finals Edmonton was outmatched by a proven champion and great team in their own right in the Iles. The Oilers did not pay like a champion in '83. The DID in '87.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: Now Tretiak didn't play in this game because he had the flu, but I read that Myshkin played great. The Oilers had territorial advantage throughout the game, impressing even the Soviet coach, the great Viktor Tikhonov. After the game Tikhonov was asked by reporters which Oilers impressed him the most. He said Gretzky and the goalie (Andy Moog). This was a great game and a morale boast for the Oilers, just what they needed. The Oilers were on fire from this point up to the final.

[DaveTV2]

Not questioning any of that and it makes sense. The Russians played a very Oilers like style (or vice versa) back then. Lots of passing and offense. So it does not surprise me that their offense first style would match up well and be allowed to be showcased against a team like the Russians. MUCH was made about the 87 teams' sudden ability to play in the defensive zone because till then they were not know for it or very good at it.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

DaveTV2: the 1982-83 Oilers were an unbelievable team. On boxing day 1982, the Oiler record stood at 18-11-8, modest by Oiler standards. Two days later, on December 28, the Oilers hosted a team of Soviet All-Stars and beat them 4-3 with Gretzky scoring two goals, Anderson and Messier one each. This was a very powerful Soviet team because it was all-star team made up of Red Army players (Larionov, Krutov, Kasatonov, Fetisov, Tretiak).

[DaveTV2]

I am not saying they were not a great team then. They were, but they certainly were not as balanced as the '87 team. The 83 team was definitely not as good defensively. Fuhr in '87 was better than Moog in '83. They were not as tough / physical as they were in '87. In addition to not having players like Tikkanen, McTavish & McSorley they also had 4 years more years together as a group by '87. That is a HUGE factor. The team in 83 was much younger and much more inexperienced then they were in 87.

[OilersCanadasTeam]

iLoveMEsomeME81: what about the 1983 Stanley Cup Final performance by Islanders goalie Billy Smith? He stoned the Oilers, allowing only 6 goals in 4 games, with the Islanders sweeping the series. This Oiler team scored 424 goals (third highest ever). The 86-87 team scored 372 goals, far fewer goals. Gretzky didn't scored any goals against Smith either. What Hextall did was fantastic too, but I think Smith owned the Oilers in 1983, the best goalie performance of all-time perhaps.

[DaveTV2]

Not taking anything away from Billy Smith but that Islander team was CLEARLY better and more experienced than the '87 Flyers. How many HOF players are on that Islanders team? Most importantly the captain and HOF defenseman Denis Potivn. Not to mention Trottier, Gillies, Bossy, Nystrom, Morrow. That was a GREAT, experienced "dynasty" team in front of him. On the other side the Oilers were FAR less experienced and balanced than the '87 Oilers. I would like to see that one though!

[DaveTV2]

Just to summarize, I am not taking anything away from Billy Smith. I think he is a great goaltender and deserves all the credit in the world for the cups he helped win. BUT I cannot imagine with that team in front of him that he was left hung out to dry as much as Hextall was in '87. That being said, that is an assumption on my part because I did not see the series. Unfortunately, I do not think we could find any kind of meaningful stats on it at this point.

[DaveTV2]

Although I just realized that he DID win the Conn Smythe that year so what the hell do I know? Just my thoughts!

[iLoveMEsomeME81]

the goaltending by Ron Hextall in this series is the best that i have ever seen in my life. Period.