@jaguarclaw Stating that you have no emotions is a very ignorant statement. The very reason you have probably stumbled upon this video: boredom or curiosity.
Plus, you were obviously motivated to post a comment in the first place, and motivation is a result of emotional response.
If you say that you have no emotion, I don't think you realize what, exactly, is "natural".
Actually, i'm amazed this movement isn't more popular. Access to everything, and without working! What kind of a retard wouldn't want that!?
I'm not saying that can be done or not, i don't have the technical knowledge or any other backgroung required to say anything about that. But let's take their word for it, just to annoy a few haters.
At least people should pay attention to these ideas more carefully and try to have expert feedback on the subject before discarding them so fast.
Great work and wonderful job standing up to ignorance! You have support out here in the world. You are not alone. I know it can be discouraging when people can't break out of their brainwashed state to look at things objectively and intelligently. Your facts and efforts are spot on and your desire is for a better tomorrow and what more could any of us want from ourselves or each other! Keep it up. Unconditional love and support to you. Thank you-
It's clear a lot of these guys don't look at enough of peter's stuff and actually do not understand what the venus project is - and I tell them so, I also tell them - please don't be offended by me telling you that and I hope you do look into it - but they don't - I'm starting to see why peter mentioned not to feed into it. Anyway, try not to get too disheartened by it - and please keep up the videos etc., thanks
You should still organize for charity to get your message out there. People will be a lot more willing to look at what you say if you spend a small fraction of your resources (money, members) in going out and participating in charities under the Zeitgeist label. Well I personally Would drop Zeitgeist since it is associated with a conspiracy theory origin. Whether or not you have evidence to back up conspiracies or even believe in them (I assume that most of the members, by now , are not...
@MacabreManifesto ...conspiracy theorists, but are in it because they agree that we have the means to implement an RBE.) promoting something that is very much centralized around movies that contain quite a few conspiracy theories (each one successively contains far less conspiracy theory jargon then the previous, and I commend PJM for this) scares people away. Back to charity: sacrificing your own time, energy, and money in a noticeable and helpful way that is in public: Charity, will get...
@MacabreManifesto ...people to soften up to your ideas. Feed the homeless and hand out pamphlets, have a drive for disease and hand out pamplets. You may get some serious attention by some high rated news media, or perhaps the Colbert Bump or something like that. If ten million people were fans then maybe Jacque will get enough money for the movie that he desperately wants to make.You will be a group of dedicated young people trying to change the world!
I sincerely ROFLing @5:48... I swear, I <3 you, B! You pick the perfect movie clips in your videos. That's EXACTLY how I feel sitting in the cafe hearing some of the emotional and uninformed responses from my Morehouse brothers. It's like
Been called 'holier then thou' myself when I was spreading information about the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. I was rather astounded since I really didn't consider regarding the betterment of the human condition as a whole to be remotely 'holy'...humane, perhaps...but not 'holy'. This is based on scientific study and research...not ascribing to some sort of 'holy text'...
Good videos we need more people who have a in-depth understanding of the Venus project sadly most people just watch the movie and feel there experts leads to a lot of misrepresenting just gotta get that knowledge out there
@jaguarclaw so your saying it's unnatural based on what? Heh. Cause it hasn't happen that's like saying it isn't possible to make anti gravity cause no ones done it. Simply put your like the people that used to write about how human flight isn't possible
perfectly responded haha, I was like, how the hell am I supposed to explain to him that just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean it will never exist. If that was the case, technically nothing would be here.
@Foxcanine1 Understood. The problem is when people are GIVEN a premise - basic, introductory level information, and their assessment of the Project clearly displays that they haven't even read THAT - then it's useless to point them to 'further' sources until they understand what we're talking about in the first place. If you watch BrutusCass original video, he wasn't asking for sources; he was making difinitive false statements about TVP/TZM.
greater good of the society,these are nationl socialist ideas, who would want ot give up their indivualality for this crap,who would want to assimilated in to some techno drone worker bee with no self expression for the greater good of this weird technocratic nazi society,its all crap, wake up
actual zeitgeits,the collective,media government,religion etc,if you really are thinking for yourself you would see this guy is trying to charge alot of money to sell you plans and designs,if he is agains the monetary system why is he charging 300$ for a set of 5 dvds?and the ideas of the vp sound alot like that of nazi pary,the idea of people giving up their individualism is one held by the national socialsit party as well as the vp,so is everyone working together and sacrificing for the
thing under wraps forever,someone else will figure out what they may have foundor known about for years&tried to keep from us,it will get away from them eventually,certainly before any of this old farts hairbrained ideas ever change anything,people looking to this guy for solutions and taking every word he says as their new dogma are just as guilty of not exercising critical thought as the masses of sheeple who follow the mainstream media and except the status quo and what they are told by the
or not overnight anyway as he and the zm think or try to say,it will happen over time when resources begin to really run out and technology really starts to develop in ways that will change everything,the industrial revolution only happened 200yrs ago,we only had computers for about 50 yrs,&transistors werent widely used til the 60's,humans are in their infancy when it come to technology,&understaning of it,&it is expanding exponentialy just give it time,the elites wont be able to keep everythin
humans could develop a technological solution to any problem or shortage that may come in the future without this guy or the vp,there are scientisits and reearchers at universities working on these technologies right now,things would work out on their own before any of this vp crap ever happens,technology may very well solve all our problems in the future but the way he purposes,its nonsense propaganda,and 50yo antiquated ideas,nobody is going to change the status quo without a violent revolutio
tation to mave goos,and we wouldnt need to woryry about living in efficient circular cities with that and fusion power,we wouldnt need to conserve or live in that horrible manner he purposes cause teach like fusion will give us unlimited energy anyway,personal fabricators the size of microwave ovens or vending machine will be able to produce any item we want ,with no need to transport it and no shortages,u will download the iinfo or plans and the machine will produce whatever for the atom up
change things on their own and turn the status quo upside down,just because of the verry natre of the technology,and would certainly make all of these old plans and designs fresco has spent his whole life working out useless as well,his ides are stupid and short sighted,he makes no mention of fusion or tocamex reactors,or nano tech,self assmebling atoms,personal fabrication devices that may come along soon that could synthesize any molecule or product from raw atoms.so we wouldnt need transporta
@willywillyization im sure that oil companies and governmets do surpress alot technology,im not arguing that,im saying that the technology that is purposed in the venus project is old outdated or will soon be outdated,he has this whole thing planned out to work with old or existing technology but even thought vp will never happen ,even if it did by the time it was implimented the technology solutions he purposes would be be obsolete,there are new technologies on the horizon that may just change
to recognize fresco,or remember that this guy has been around forever trying to push his ides & agenda ,its old hat, utopian propaganda thats been around forever now trying to masquerade as some new idea(zm)2 get a new generation sold on it ,there is no problem they outline in the movie that isnt happening,its all right,& they know that,they know people will buy that part,cause its all true,thats how they suck you in,then when they have you,listening,they throw this crazy old utopian crap @ u,vp
educated to these problems in depth ,that they can get to join this movement,for whatever hidden agenda they are tring to push on them,they want you give up 1 set of dogmatic views for their own,we already know fresco is trying to sell shit,and the films tried to keep its true agenda hidden until the 3rd movie,or atleast downplay its connection to the venus project,its like they want to make sure people are sold before they reveal its true agenda,its aimed at young peolple not old enought to
attention,it trying to get to them first,the uneducated masses ,so it can co opt them and try to brainwash then ito believing its own flawed dogma,for it own hidden agenda,when i first saw zg&adendem i thought he did a good job at outlinig the problems,but anyone who is educated and can think for themselves would have already know everythin presented in the 1st 2 films,but in more detail,what is preseted is a quick topical outline with no real depth or discussion,it is aimed at people who arent
@willywillyization,i amnot denying that thoes thing are going on or exist at all, i am just saying that the answers and"solutions" purposed by zeitgeist the vp and fresco are old antiquated ideas from the 60's,they will never work,and i wouldnt want them too,if you had any ability to critical think you would see this is just tosell you bunch of bunk,old ideas,fresco is selling his designs,and his wacky utopian ideas,the designs for cash,zeitgeist is trying to educate the people who r not paying
The only reason (in my opinion, with the facts and data presented to me at this point) that the venus project could possibly not work, is the lack of open mindedness and cooperation between humans today. Thats it. Again i state that this is in my opinion only and I do not mean to impose this opinion on others.
Even before knowing of the venus project or zeitgeist I entertained the idea of a united earth. - "together we stand divided we fall" - I find this as absolute truth in a non violent way.
and thinks that his antiquated ideas & technolgy is going to somehow save the world,and zeitgeist movement thins that these ideas are just going to materialize magically out of thin air with no violence or revolution,it will NEVER HAPPEN!maybe someday the emergence of new technology like nano tech & quantum manufacturing like personal fabricators and self assembling atoms & new energy tech like fusion & 80 or 90%efficient solar will chang things by its very existence &nature,but venus never will
@bulletproof2353 Hey Clueless! If you had paid attention before opening your mouth, you'd see that Mr. Fresco talks about non tech. and the fact that there are other science and technologies which are suppressed and, therefore, interfere in human progress! Your ignorance shines through.
fo every meal too because it would be more "sustainable"and in the end the only think the enviornment coould handle,if that were the case they would purpose that too,the only people that would accept this are people living in the 3rd world,& why wouldnt there be aviation?it has proven the most efficient means of travel but is out and out dismissed by venus,planes can run on other fuel besides petrol,like electric or other renuable fuel,jacqu fresco is a 100yr old fosil with short sighted ideas
to live in tiny apartments cold sterilic circular cities?what is 2 billion people want to live in a chalet in aspen and 4 billion want to live in a beach house in malibu?etc..
people dont want to be assimilated to cultureless ,generic futuristic clothing wearing clones living in cookie cutter apartments,with no regaurd to architectural history and architecture as an art,with no culture or 1 generic techno culture sounds like huxley if u ask me,maybe we should eat a white gruel like paste for
the guy in the video says that marx didnt understand the potential of technology,but the venus project is a bunch of antiquated ideas from the 60's it does not take into account rapidly changing technology,i hear nothing about tocomax fusion reactors,nano tech,personal farbicators and other promising tech that might bring about change ,without these silly antiquated ideas,but just by the nature of the tech itself,& u cant create an abundnce of land or prime realestate ,what if people dont want
@bulletproof2353 Well in that case stay in your wonderful bubble of this wonderful world filled with wage slavery, political manipulasion, artificial scarcity where 40,000 children PER DAY die when in FACT we have the technology which is denied and science to prevent starvation, and perpetual exploitation in the interest of the ruling class, shall we??! Yeah - I'm all for that! Just stay ignorant and asleep to FACTS.
How the fuck can you sit there with a straight face after a video just explained that Marxist communism included private property, have you even read the communist manifesto?
@machwon You need to chill out and listen closer. He didn't say Communism included private property; he said it "presupposes property," as in "property" was confiscated by the government to be managed "for the good of the people," and is only relevant amongst scarcity. The RBE has nothing to do with confiscating property, or abolishing "private property rights." It's about producing an abundance of goods & services so that the the need for property is outGROWN, not outlawed.
Hey, everything you been saying is so true, but the rich and selfish won't let go of there riches ever. you can try to explain to them that they are not really losing anything , but most will not listen. therefore, i believe the venus project will never happen without a revolution. One last war to end all wars and proverty. the guy who create the project has been working on it for over 70 years and has gotten nowhere with it cause people don't want to listen. so its time to force them to listen.
@MrVictius Hi. I don't mind, and no, I'm not anymore. You can watch Evid3nc3's series to find out why. (I mean, he is not the reason. I became agnostic a long time ago, but his series explains the elaborate thought process very thoroughly.)
@TVPchallenge Hi. Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to be sure because seeing ur videos, I couldnt make out what ur religion was. I am an agnostic as well and am aware of Evid3nc3's videos which are probably the best videos on secularism I have seen on youtube. Keep up the good work u are doing :)
@thinkchip Nothing. Although, I am not sure who would want to continue to "exchange" in an environment of abundance. Why would anyone want to exchange something they already have, for something they have access to?
(If I want a new mp3 player, I can go online or to a distribution center and have my old one recycled or upgraded to any design for free. So instead of exchanging my painting for your mp3 player, I would just give you the painting for free.)
@TVPchallenge We have great abundance compared to most other places and times, yet we still exchange things all day everyday. The abundance sounds great, but I am suspicious that there will be a ruling class of people in your system, no? or is each person free to live their lives as they want, so long as they don't bring harm to others?
i'm pretty sure it's the latter thinkchip, i think in the resource based economy everyone has access to pretty much everything. So there would be no special group of people. You would have access to food, clothes, and anything that can be produced with the resources at hand that would be available to everyone so there would be no reason for theft, homelessness(sp?), and status symbols.
@RedLion502 I'm an advocate of a non-violence based society and I'm suspicious of advocacy for any societal restructuring that doesn't have non-violence as a central tenet. A "resource based economy" strikes me as potential double-speak for another flavor of violence-based command economy as we have today worldwide including the US.
Also, I don't understand the need for this. We already know what creates plenty. It's called free people acting freely in free markets. It works every time.
@thinkchip I wouldn't say that they condone violence, their aim is trying correct the current conditioning that makes people violence/criminals/greedy etc. I think the point of TVP is also to eliminate most of what can trigger violence or corruption of any kind. But if i may ask what leads you to believe this is a pro violent structure?
Well free markets don't seem to work for the poor, jobless, slave waged sweatshops, overpopulated countries etc. Some would argue it doesn't work everytime.
@RedLion502 Actually free markets were reducing poverty consistently in this country before the national gov began the War on Poverty which, like the War on Drugs, is an utter failure (accomplishing the opposite of it's stated goals) and monstrously oppressive abuse of power.
A good test of what a system is based on is how people that try to act in disagreement with the system are treated. Here, if I don't pay taxes because I disagree with the wars, I will be assaulted. Violence.
@thinkchip While i agree that a "War" on anything is just a cover for more money i'm going to agree to disagree on saying free markets reduce poverty. With the outsourcing of jobs it's doing the opposite. We throw away tons of food for the reason that is was not "bought" and would rather throw it out. There are many homeless even though there are abandoned houses or forclosed ones. There are resources to cover everyone but the need to profit or be in position of power stands in the way.
@RedLion502 You may choose to believe that free markets don't reduce poverty contrary to evidence but you then give examples of government affected decisions as if they were the result of free markets. Jobs are outsourced when the business climate where they currently are becomes unprofitable. What makes that the case more than taxation and regulation (both based on violence)?
Food is thrown away according to (potentially) violently enforced food regulations. Obviously not a fee market decision.
And how would you obtain these houses to give to the homeless, except by stealing? Violence-based redistributionist crap like the war on poverty do not work and are wrong. They impoverish us all and make homelessness worse.
In a human dignity respecting system like the free market, profit comes from win-win interactions and drives service and innovation.
@RedLion502 That's why I ask How would people that did not want to participate in the wonderful, technologically efficient, benevolent sharing of resources that you propose be dealt with?
In an truly non-violence based society, I would be free to trade dollars (or rocks or whatever) with my friends, if that's what I chose to do, so long as I didn't harm anyone else. I would also be secure in my person and property, not sharing it with your computer overlords if I chose not to. What of it?
@thinkchip lol hey no need to get snarky, i'm just trying answer questions you put out. I would imagine there would be no problem trading whatever you want so long as it doesn't become a sort of currency where you or anyone could gain a sort of leverage. Now i can understand these concerns and i am going to a Zeitgeist meeting today, i'll others about these questions and get back to you.
@RedLion502 Don't mean to be snarky. I really do appreciate your going through this with me. I really do want to understand what you guys propose.
I am even more suspicious though, seeing "so long as it doesn't become a sort of currency". So you would jail those that use currency?
I am all for punishing those that commit fraud, or assault, or kidnapping or any action that hurts others. However, my capitalist friends and I trading silver coins for products or services does not hurt anyone.
@thinkchip It's cool, it's informative to listen to other views of this system. It can help put more perspective to the supporters in how to deal with these kinds of questions.
now please don't take things out of context. the point of this system is to eliminate as many opportunities for corruption/leverage as possible, any kind of a currency would undermine the point of this social structure purposes.
I'll send you a link to a little more info that might help in a message to you
@RedLion502 You're right it was addressed by her. My question is expanded in a response I just posted to her:
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You propose a person in a "distribution center" do some work to upgrade your old mp3 player for free. What is their incentive to do this? Who would administer this system, if not a violently enforced monopoly ruling class like government "servants"?
And if I don't want to have my property taken to be shared with everyone else, what then?
@thinkchip In TVP the "distribution center" would be completely automated, if someone chooses to design a more innovative mp3 player then yeah it would be for free. It may be a difficult concept to concieve, especially in the kind of environment we're in, but some people aren't motivated by profit. that would particularily be the case in system that has no currency.
But hey if you want to go into more detail then i message you cause there is only so much you put in these message posts.
@thinkchip (1/2) "I would be free to trade dollars (or rocks or whatever) with my friends, if that's what I chose to do..."
As I stated before, those who still wish to trade would be free to so so, but sadly you're still missing the point. I am "free" to wear my bikini in 32° weather, but I don't. I would be putting myself through unnecessary burden & discomfort, simply to obnoxiously "express" my right to do so. This is similar to asking if you are still "free" to trade amongst abundance. >>
(2/2) Yes, but doing so would be silly & illogical, serving no other purpose than to "express your right to trade." It is as though you can't even fathom a scenario where you don't need to trade. O.o If you eat at a buffet, do you "trade" the items on your plate w/other people in the restaurant?? Or do you just get your food from the main overlord, I mean, the main serving dish? In the RBE, items do not have to be "unlimited" bc when used intelligently & efficiently, there's plenty to go around.
@thinkchip (1/3) "We have great abundance compared to most other places and times..."
Abundance "compared to most other places and times" is not abundance. The economic definition of abundance is "without competition." Therefore, regardless of what we have, and how much of it we have, if it is in high demand and we can't supply it to everyone at any given time, without exchange, debt, or servitude, it is not abundant.
"yet we still exchange things all day every day..."
(2/3) Your statement that we still exchange things every day totally negates your so-called definition of abundance. If things were truly abundant it would be impossible, or at least illogical, to exchange them. We only exchange things for things we want or need, if we can't get it otherwise, which is not "abundance."
"I am suspicious that there will be a ruling class of people in your system...or is each person free to live their lives as they want, so long as they don't bring harm to others?"
(3/3) For the 100th time, there would be no ruling class, no need for a ruling class, and no incentive to be a ruling class. Ruling what, or whom? For what purpose? To gain what, things that they already have, and can easily get? To control people? To do what, things that are already automated? It wouldn't make any sense in a Type 1 civilization, but it's hard to imagine from a Type 0 perspective. Yes, people are free to live their lives as they want, and these questions are answered in the FAQ.
@TVPchallenge There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You propose a person in a "distribution center" do some work to upgrade your old mp3 player for free. What is their incentive to do this? Who would administer this system, if not a violently enforced monopoly ruling class like government "servants"?
And if I don't want to have my property taken to be shared with everyone else, what then?
(1/4) "You propose a person in a "distribution center" do some work to upgrade your old mp3 player for free."
No. Of course, you would know this if you read the FAQ's... or knew anything about TVP at all... so the rest of your comment/question is totally irrelevant. It is fairly entry-level knowledge that the distribution centers would be automated (FAQ 76, 28). FYI - This is why the Challenge requires at least a basic understanding of TVP before debating it to avoid elementary questions. >>
(2/4) As far as people having the incentive to design and build automation, see Q&A #1 on my 2nd blog, at tvpchallenge(dot)blogspot(dot)com. Go to androidcentral to see the mountain of apps that people design & distribute for absolutely free, in addition to the support, video tutorials, etc that people do in their spare time, just for fun, or for a great learning experience. That's just in the world of cell phones. People are doing this w/almost every craft and would do so even more if they >>
(3/4) weren't burdened with income and survival needs, and had free access to all education & tools.
"Who would administer this system..." The admin (inventory, daily operations, etc.) would be automated as well, but those studying, and desiring to participate in, that particular field of cybernetics & automation would help oversee it. There is no incentive for them to corrupt or sabotage the system bc 1) it's their system too, which they will be using, and 2) they have nothing to gain. Like >>
(4/4) everyone else, they already have access to everything required for a high standard of living (FAQ 63).
"And if I don't want to have my property taken to be shared with everyone else?"
For one, nobody wants your property. We don't need it to build a RBE so don't flatter yourself. 2nd, for the 100th time, we don't NEED to take your property to share it w/everyone bc there would be enough for everyone. If it's abundant, we don't need to take it away from you, to supply it to others. (cont'd)
(4/4 cont'd) What "property" of yours do you suppose people will want, or what is it that you don't want to share? A mag-lev train? Yes, I'm sorry you would have to share that. If you want one for yourself in your back-yard, it probably won't fit.
@TVPchallenge How would one how much property is the proper amount for one person? If this calculation is done through computers, could the computers be wrong?
BrutusCass is not a smart man, he just gets off on downing other peoples ideas. The fact is that he is ill informed and has weak arguements to support his thoughtless emotional statements.
Why do some people say they don't like being told to read this, or check out that film or info? That's kind of what you need to do to become familiar with the ideas, and I have to say the level of stubbornness of saying 'I hate being told to'....check out a website or a clip....lol, come on.
really. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN RESPOND TO THAT PERSON? your time is worth more than that. you cant make a idiot understand such complex things. he's obviously brain washed very badly.
its the opposite of how he has survived. just like when you're growing up and they say don't steal, lie, cheat, but in reality that is the only way to be succeed in the world
I find it interesting how many of the responses to criticism of TVP revolve around the "misunderstanding" of the critic. Instead of pointing out the flaw in argumentation, you use ad hominems in order to discredit or insult the person who proposes a valid question. Why are you so against honest inquiry? I would think TVP would want to distance itself from this kind of discourse, given its overwhelming similarity to communist propaganda. And TVP clearly isn't based on communism, right?
@anon56anon56 "responses to criticism of TVP revolve around the "misunderstanding" of the critic."
I agree with you in many cases, but this particular video is not a good example of your claim. In the very beginning I'm responding to HIS claim that "someone told him to do more research," by explaining why. So yes, a video response entails "responding" to what he said. You say "Instead of pointing out the flaw in argumentation," when that is exactly what I do throughout the rest of the video.
@TVPchallenge My apologies for the accusatory tone in my other post, but you have to understand the frustration that arises when honest (though perhaps heated) debate is met with only "you haven't done research". I know that many of the arguments have been laid out before, but it seems like this is an "entry point" to TVP, and dismissing arguments is deleterious to both sides of the debate. Either way, this discussion has been enlightening, and I look forward to hearing more from both sides.
@anon56anon56 "you have to understand the frustration that arises when honest (though perhaps heated) debate is met with only 'you haven't done research'."
Trust me, you are preaching to the choir. I am not a big fan of that response either, because I think it's counterproductive. I have written a blog on it here: tvpchallenge(dot)blogspot(dot)com.
Don't waste your time responding to people like Brutus Cass. You empower him with your attention to what he says, which is nothing more than that which has traditionally been said again and again to combat the ideas of the progressive. He oversimplifies his arguments and views, and thus he is not worth acknowledging. He is about mincing words and appearing right with the last word. You have more productive things to do than lend credibility to someone with no credibility at all. Ignore him.
You have given me inspiration by exhibiting such patience.
(sigh)... I know that this should always be given, but when I'm met with nothing beside doubt and intentful discouraging while trying to explain these concepts, I admit I stoop to frustration and a hopeless feeling. (I KNOW it must be just from misunderstanding)
So once again, thank you. I would call this "model behavior" for someone who understands an R.B.E. would work.
Since I have now posted a few comments, TY just asked me, a human, to input a series of letters to match some random group of scrambled, distorted letters, thus ensuring I am a human and not a machine. This usage of a “captcha” is a perfect example of the limits of technology and that a human mind is still more advanced then a computer. I could not better illustrate my point in any other way; thanks YouTube!
@HowToChangeTheWorld lol - Your example is so out-of-context I don't even know where to begin. We'll skip over the fact that this is YOUTUBE (of all systems, one of the crappiest & most frustrating, an end-user system that's FREE bc they use... gee... I wonder... oh ADVERTISING in the monetary system, lol) and grant you that it's an example of another more advanced system used today... Saying "See, technology is crappy in a monetary system" supports what we're saying about technology in an RBE.
In other words... "This usage of a “captcha” is a perfect example of the limits of technology..." IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM! lol - Especially technology that is available for FREE in a monetary system, and is therefore obviously not the best quality, and must be equipped with SEVERAL safeguards against ABUSE, such as spamming, which someone might do to a website that isn't theirs and has no concern for, in the current system.
SO MUCH of this crap would GO AWAY with the worlds most advanced tech.
Also, a human mind is more "creative" than a computer, but not more "advanced" or capable of handling more data. In fact it's already a given that computers can handle significantly more data than humans combined, so what we're dealing with here is limited technology (YouTube), not technological limitations.
No matter how much more "advanced" you think you are, you'll never be able to do complex math faster than a calculator, keep track of all the worlds resources more accurately.
@TVPchallenge My mind can do more then just handle data...Computuers have their place, that's for sure, but I will never pray or bow down to one...Never! lol.
@TVPchallenge thought you might like this einstein quote
"Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid. Human beings are incredibly slow, inaccurate, and brilliant. Together they are powerful beyond imagination."
@suckseedorsuckeggs I agree with you, but understand humans will always have a hand in how society is run, but computers and machines are simply tools or an extentsion of us. The aim of the TVP is to create abundance for all people on Earth using the scientific method and advance technologies without the use of money, barter, and government.
@HowToChangeTheWorld A human cannot take into account thousands of parameters in arriving at a decision to any degree that can be called effective, yet a LOT of decisions require such calculations. Computers can do this with millions of parameters in 1 or 2 seconds, effortlessly. Technology is a tool, an extension! The sheer fact that we have it is proof it is capable at fulfilling a purpose that we don't want or feel less adept at handling manually.
@Tanoro The world (nature) is run by a dynamic, self-motivated aggregate of decision makers; thus maintaining a dynamic stability. CPUs will NEVER have sufficient insight, nor could any creature, to “judge” the needs of any facet of my life or that of any creature, be it a fish, fungi, a tree, etc.. My environment created me, and then I alter it, all within the boundaries of nature. Trying to dictate and direct nature always results in colossal consequences. I’m no collectivist; are you?
@HowToChangeTheWorld You're projecting falsities. Nobody is suggesting we judge or direct any "facet of your life." We are suggesting taking account of what resources we have and using computers and machines to make it available and calculate where it needs to be sent to provide abundant resources to everyone. There's no dictation implied in our plan.
@Tanoro I have heard Peter Joseph say many times "You're projecting this and that". Be original. Like I said; you think there is a way to manage nature. Good luck with that. I will live whithin nature and you can watch it from the sidelines in your holodeck from Startrek. What do you know of nature? Research the word Ecology!
@HowToChangeTheWorld I would love to be original, but you're making the same mistakes he deals with which is why I'm giving you the same response. Again, I tell you that we're not suggesting the management of nature. STOP PROJECTING THAT! We're not suggesting anything Startrek. The technologies we advocate are current technologies proven effective at doing what we're describing. If you want to disprove that, please present something that does so.
I’m being mean to you and I know it. Sorry; I’m just frustrated. Don’t take it personal. I don’t know you and shouldn’t judge. TVP is about managing the “resource based economy”, right? How can you manage natural resources without managing nature? It’s simply a play on words. Anyway, TVP appears to be void of any examples besides pictures of futuristic cities and such.
@HowToChangeTheWorld TVP never said they are managing nature, unless your talking about using nature as energy like wind, solar power, geothermal energy, wave energy. That's harnessing the power of nature. TVP wants to intelligently manage the Earths resources using Super Computers. The technology exsists, it's a matter of programming and setting up sensors around the world, and satellite communications. These technologies exsist.
@Tanoro I don’t see any real life implementation of this VP concept possible. I’m no communist, but do believe technology should not be owned by another. Copyright laws hinder us all and are of little merit. All discoveries are only possible because of past discoveries. Imagine there was a copyright law in effect prohibiting someone from using the technology of fire. But I do not believe we should exploit/manage/govern/monitor, etc.., every facet of the natural world with a PC and so on.
@HowToChangeTheWorld Obviously you haven't taken any time to read or look at any videos presented by TVP. There is enough information on TVP site for a college course. So unless you actually didi some research, you shouldn't make negative responses. What is your solution for a better world? Or do you think the world we live in is fine?
@creamone Ah, you want a better world. Good; so do I. The question then is better for whom? Just for us or for every living thing? Since we are dependant on other life forms for food, and our food is dependant on other creatures, a sane person’s answer would be the latter. The study of ecology is the science which addresses our concerns. Permaculture is the study of ecology as it relates to humans and can be utilized in the real world. Nice 350z.
@HowToChangeTheWorld Listen Jacque Fresco has been advocating TVP since the 60's & 70's. He's been on Larry King in the 70's talking about TVP. (VIDEO IS on YOUTUBE) There is no correlation other than a circular design. The Myans build pyramids does that make them copy cats of the Eygptians? I'm started to think your ignorant. Don't debunk and idea if you don't know what you are talking about, you look stupid. I see no problem of incorporating permaculture techniques in TVP.
@HowToChangeTheWorld Since TVP is a grass roots movement, and all of human creativity and knowledge will be desirable in creating this system, perhaps you should join and contribute. From your comment it appears that you know a thing or two about ecology. Any and all suggestions for structural design are certainly welcomed.
@ChaotePD Thank you! Join, no; contribute, sure; so long as the abrogation of mentally exercised choice is not championed by the idiot masses. The most advanced technology in existence today, is, and always will be, intertwined with man’s mind, thought and intention. The PC is useless without a monitor, keyboard and human mind, to assure its competency. The structural design must be dynamic, organic, and resilient to environmental stresses, much like a forest; that’s all I contend.
@HowToChangeTheWorld *multiple facepalms* Nevermind. I'm done. If you're going to repeatedly assert that after I repeatedly said we're not advocating that, it is abundantly clear you have no intention of actually understanding. You are arguing with somebody else. When you're ready to talk to me about the things we're ACTUALLY advocating, I'll be happy to discuss it.
Ecology (from Greek: οἶκος, "house" or "living relations"; -λογία, "study of") is the scientific study of the distributions, abundance and relations of organisms and their interactions with the environment.
Brandy - Good job explaining ... I hope Brutus takes the time and keeps his response reserved until he researches what he needs to grasp this amazingly cool version of our world where we actually share and care; not hoard and compete - otherwise, its going to be a lot hassle on YouTube... time will tell...
I need someone to rebuild my chimney so I can avoid freezing this winter, and guess what; a mason will have to labour himself for this repair to happen. I will have to labour for the mason directly or earn paper money to pay for him to employ his own labourer. Avoiding the monetary system altogether by employing myself as his labourer allows me to derive greater value form my own labour. Make sense?
For instance, since the beginning of civilization, farming has been the largest industry in the world; yet, we somehow are going to eliminate that with machines to ration the managed resources of the planet…Right! The current economy IS resource based already. Humans all over the world trade their labour, time and technology (skills & knowledge) for paper money (representative money), which is then traded back for REAL goods and services BELONGING to another, including labour.
No it's not. Resource-Based as defined in the term "Resource-Based-Economy" does not mean "we use resources" or we "base value, or labor, etc on resources." It means precisely that we *design* the entire economic system on, and ONLY on, the entire planet's available natural resources, which can only be done with a global inventory, and a network of systems that are constantly updated and in communication with each other.
@TVPchallenge I just want to say I think what you are doing is great. I think if people want to undermine the real moral behind the movement they should really just leave you alone. Kudos to you for having the patience to bare with them, I don't know why they don't just go and do something better with their time then complain about you. I study psychology and I think they just want a response from you to gradify themself. But yeah wow you have the patience of a tree lol
Your candor, and presentation, and way of speaking are always appreciated by me, TVPChallenge. I admire your work, and dedication. Please keep up the wonderful work. I hope you're getting enough encouragement to make all this worth it. I've written editorial after editorial with no feedback, and it's making it hard to continue doing what I'm doing on the journalistic front.
CONT..Well, while harvesting corn, the combine machine broke down mid day, half the day was wasted taking the bad part out, and now two days are wasted waiting for a replacement part to arrive. How would TVP have helped this situation? Please help me to understand how a machine can feed me more efficiently then nature.
TVP claims to be the answer to sacristy through the implementation of modern technology. However, yesterday I was visiting family on their 500 acre farm, and I can tell you that technology is not the answers in of itself. For example, this huge farm is managed by only two aged men, who utilize the best technology has to offer and the goal seems to be the reduction of the human labour (human resources) component of farming to maximize yields. CONT BELOW.
@HowToChangeTheWorld (1/2) You're missing the point - the family on the 500-acre farm is not "TVP" and that's exactly why the equipment broke down in the first place, and why it took half the day trying to fix it, much less TWO DAYS for a part?? In TVP it would be done in minutes. I agree that "technology" is not the answer in and of itself and that's why TVP requires a global "systems approach." Segment 6 & 7 of "Where Are We Going" explain this. One thing breaks down, another one backs it up.>
(2/2) But more importantly, in TVP everyone is free to grow their own food if they so choose. There is no reason why people can't have an aquaponics farm or whatever in their backyard. The technology (vertical farms, etc) is simply a means of providing healthy food in large quantities to a large amount of people, in natural ways (hydroponics, aquaponics, etc); its simply an efficient means of permaculture.
Hydroponics is not really natural at all; it's actually like TVP, in that it is meticulously managed and very vulnerable to collapse. This is due to its many needs that can’t be fulfilled by a machine. Nature is the only self automation which will ever really exist, but I do get your point. ALLOWING a bean, squash, or any other climbing plant to grow up an apple tree would be my version of vertical farms, and this is a permaculture practice existing today.
@TVPchallenge You said, “in TVP everyone is free to grow their own food if they so choose”, but wait a minute…I just watch Peter Joseph tell Alex Jones, in an interview on your channel, that human opinion would be removed in a TVP world. I’m serious; it was on your channel that I heard this. If my opinion and yours do not matter, then why doesn’t TVP matter to us?
@HowToChangeTheWorld "...human opinion would be removed in a TVP world." No. Human opinion would be removed from the DECISION MAKING process regarding systems that affect humanity. Meaning we all need food, water, air, shelter, technology & personnel to maintain a high-standard of living, healthcare, and planetary resources. So "opinions" (or politics) should not be used to manage those. Period. If someone wants to grow flowers in their yard, raise fish, or wear green pants on Thursdays... Okay.
I hear you; I do, but you fail to realize that YOUR time that YOU are now free to spend communicating with me, is indeed a resource that can and will be managed in a TVP type of world, simply because your opinion is not needed in the decision making process of managing you and me as a resource. You are converted to a human resource which is to be exploited to a degree which we in the western world find it hard to comprehend is possible, until we look at the current third world.
The reality of people like BrutusCass is best summed up by this quote from Max Planck:
.
"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - Max Planck - (Father of Quantum Mechanics)
@xephyr1000 I have been working on mircogen systems which I hope to introduce in my local area, I help the organisation Emergcy while I was in Italy teaching their volenteer Doctors to speak English and translating for them as well as other activities all un paid work may I add, please explain what you are and have been doing other than spreading your so called message?
@xephyr1000 So you believe in 'Ethic of Reciprocity' that is intersting, you also say that you are "Consciously EVOLVING" well that is a little ironic considering your statement about knowing the mind of others!
@xephyr1000 oh and one last thing before you get all upperty about me saying that you havea mix of arogance and ignorance I will explain why I state so clearly. Your arogance comes from you claiming to know the mind of another. And your ignorance is that of not even bothering to question that mind before you make such a stupid claim. Then I will add your stupidity in using another mans words to try to make yourself seem intelligent!
@xephyr1000 Oh I just read your Interests:I'm not against any belief system, EXCEPT when those systems------ 1) CLAIM absolute knowledge which they cannot prove 2) DEMAND these claims be treated equal to evidence 3) INSIST their dogma be forced upon civil society and integrated into Law
@xephyr1000 4)CONT.. EXPECT their "beliefs" to be pushed as legitimate alternatives to real Science 5) REQUIRE special privileges and standing the rest of society does not receive (i.e. hate-speech, tax-exemption, etc.) Everything else can be handled through the Civil Legal system. I don't expect to play 'Thought Police' with anyone.
@xephyr1000 Summing up... Well that is all well and good except, you have the words "Christianity is a DANGEROUS cult of fear," that seem to contridict your part about I'm not against any belief system (you are being rather inclusive in your statement!) Then you talk of hate-speech when you use a quote which talks of the death of others! And though you claim not to play thought police with others you claim to know what others think and prejudge them on the thoughts you think they have!!!
I find this video very well explained and "straight to the point",well done Brandy! this is maybe one of your best videos yet. We all look forward to your next video
Therefor you are stating that VP is in fact a futuristic techo form of comunism! my case in point. Just because you have someone claiming that it is not I suggest you read the 10 plank of communism, and the meaning of the word. To make common. Marx never finished his work he died before he did so why are you all quoting Marx?
I will make a video responce as you have missed the first video, and started with the second on the VP, if you had watched the first you may have had better context!
@BrutusCass ok,let think about something,you say it is futuristic comunism.The comunism is one big political body state,dont you really see the difference between the political and the scientific method in taking decisions?Where did you see a political body controlling people.How is that possible when you have not money,hence authority over people?Why will i become a soldier?What will make me kill other person?
@milanstoyanov So far all that has been given is word defination, you say a scientific method, this term as nothing to do with the Method in science which is, observe, theorise, concluded, then requestion, if the last part is missed it is not science but dogma! Now the discussion you have here can easly be had without the VP, the VP is one possible solution, it claims to be able to solve the problem, but the problem must be solved by people not a Title!
@BrutusCass If you draw the line you will see there is many more things in common between the communism and the capitalism,rather the communism and the RBE.
@milanstoyanov If we look into things we will see that generally there is very little difference between the practise of any system. The difference between Facism and capitalism and communism is only a question of points of view and where you are sitting and viewing them, and really it is all a RBE it is just a question of how the accounting is done and who is doing it, anyway until something is demostrated as it is it is nothing but words.
@BrutusCass Actually I make the definitions of communism & Communism quite clear in my blog "TVP vs. Other Social Systems" at tvpchallenge()blogspot()com. You are the one that is arguing semantics by saying "some form of communism" in order to define TVP as you see fit, rather than define it by ALL that it is. TVP involves "holding things in common," just as it involves "regard for the environment," but we do not call it "techno-environmentalism," because that is not its only characteristic.
@TVPchallenge No your blog which you claim to make the definition is in fact arguing semantics by the very definition of the word semantics! but lets look shall we The Venus Project agrees that land ownership needs to be abolished that is the same as the first plank of communism. Ok you claim there will be no tax, but as you system will control all resourse that in fact the will be just one big super tax, so that is planks 2,3 and 4 removed from the problem in one foul swoop! CONT.
@TVPchallenge CONT.. Oh and as the system will be in the hands of a CPU then Plank 5 is covered. This will also take care of plank 6,7,8,9 and 10. Spin it around anyway you wish but what you will end up with is a Futuristic Techno form of Communism! Centralised thought and centralised control is by definition Totalitarian and as a computer will control everying dictating resourses it is a dictatorship. Basically it's nothing more than a brave new world!
@BrutusCass Question. Are we having a discussion about what we actually propose and are trying to accomplish w/TVP, or what you think might happen as a result? Bc if you think that TVP is actually *proposing* a totalitarian communistic dictatoriship, then I was mistaken in assuming that you wanted to have a serious discussion. That is not the goal at all, not how the SM would be used, nor how the (network of, not central) cpu systems would be used.
@TVPchallenge Well certainly my concern is partly about the final result, and that is due to the fact that THP show these cities and Jacque talks a lot about his cities and the system, there is little talk concerning small scale local projects or steps towards arriving at these ends, now maybe I have been asking the wrong VP activists but so far all have told me that a computer will control everything and no one has talked about how humans will be involved in the running of the system.
@BrutusCass I see. Well, once again, I will not 'assume' that you have not watched Peter Joseph's presentation "Where Are We Going" in its entirety, but if you have, you either forgot, didn't understand, or weren't paying attention...or something. There is a specific segment in there 'dedicated' to explaining exactly how humans will be involved with decision-making processes, and how every individual has access to input ideas, models, etc. and could participate on the teams if they choose.
@TVPchallenge That would be the one where people get that silly idea about how the Agricultal revolution gave us greater freedom! a thing that many VPers state which is clearly wrong as it infact was the start of our enslavement. In fact he doesn't really say anything that would be new to anyone who had spent time studying matters, so maybe I did not watch it all as it does seem rather shallow as an intro,CONT
@TVPchallenge however It is a pity that you were not able to remember the exact words yourself however or even provided a link to were it can be found in the case that I had not watched it, and it also seems that others of the VP that I have communicated with may have as you say, "you either forgot, didn't understand, or weren't paying attention..." as they like yourself could not quote him, but at least you can remember where you heard it.
@BrutusCass Not only can I remember many of the exact words, but I can picture the slides that went along. It is not something that can be simply explained in a comment or message, which is why I referred you to the video.
As far as providing a link, I thought you would know to type "Where Are We Going, Peter Joseph" in the YT search. It is also in my playlists. I have also listed out some segments with timestamps at tvpchallenge(dot)blogspot(dot)com. I don't know how to make it any easier.
@BrutusCass You've said it yourself friend. "Unless you change your mannerisms and systems of exchange..."And how does one go about changing their mannerisms? This is a question of culture, and cultural interaction, who's primary medium of exchange is linguistic. Are you familiar with a process called praxis? If not you might look it up. This is the process Zeitgeist Movement is engaged in. One can't engage in the integration of ideas, and information into culture without talking about them.
From my understanding, not every single detail of the economy or the society proposed by the Venus Project is completely automated. You see the automation only comes into play where "drone like" responses would take place, like passing groceries over a scanner and asking for payment, or a miner truck following a path going to and from the pit to extract materials. We can automate these processes. There is still maintenance and several points through these processes that need human interaction
ET TU BRUTE'
jhigh107 2 months ago
@jaguarclaw Stating that you have no emotions is a very ignorant statement. The very reason you have probably stumbled upon this video: boredom or curiosity.
Plus, you were obviously motivated to post a comment in the first place, and motivation is a result of emotional response.
If you say that you have no emotion, I don't think you realize what, exactly, is "natural".
TheSinisterScourge 3 months ago
Actually, i'm amazed this movement isn't more popular. Access to everything, and without working! What kind of a retard wouldn't want that!?
I'm not saying that can be done or not, i don't have the technical knowledge or any other backgroung required to say anything about that. But let's take their word for it, just to annoy a few haters.
At least people should pay attention to these ideas more carefully and try to have expert feedback on the subject before discarding them so fast.
TheDarkFenix 6 months ago 2
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TheDarkFenix 6 months ago
Great work and wonderful job standing up to ignorance! You have support out here in the world. You are not alone. I know it can be discouraging when people can't break out of their brainwashed state to look at things objectively and intelligently. Your facts and efforts are spot on and your desire is for a better tomorrow and what more could any of us want from ourselves or each other! Keep it up. Unconditional love and support to you. Thank you-
Micheletti335 9 months ago
It's clear a lot of these guys don't look at enough of peter's stuff and actually do not understand what the venus project is - and I tell them so, I also tell them - please don't be offended by me telling you that and I hope you do look into it - but they don't - I'm starting to see why peter mentioned not to feed into it. Anyway, try not to get too disheartened by it - and please keep up the videos etc., thanks
SEVENBILLIONSLAVES 10 months ago
Hey ,don't worry about these hatters.They can't stand to see a woman like you being so honest and smart.
Elderyoungone 10 months ago
You should still organize for charity to get your message out there. People will be a lot more willing to look at what you say if you spend a small fraction of your resources (money, members) in going out and participating in charities under the Zeitgeist label. Well I personally Would drop Zeitgeist since it is associated with a conspiracy theory origin. Whether or not you have evidence to back up conspiracies or even believe in them (I assume that most of the members, by now , are not...
MacabreManifesto 11 months ago
@MacabreManifesto ...conspiracy theorists, but are in it because they agree that we have the means to implement an RBE.) promoting something that is very much centralized around movies that contain quite a few conspiracy theories (each one successively contains far less conspiracy theory jargon then the previous, and I commend PJM for this) scares people away. Back to charity: sacrificing your own time, energy, and money in a noticeable and helpful way that is in public: Charity, will get...
MacabreManifesto 11 months ago
@MacabreManifesto ...people to soften up to your ideas. Feed the homeless and hand out pamphlets, have a drive for disease and hand out pamplets. You may get some serious attention by some high rated news media, or perhaps the Colbert Bump or something like that. If ten million people were fans then maybe Jacque will get enough money for the movie that he desperately wants to make.You will be a group of dedicated young people trying to change the world!
MacabreManifesto 11 months ago
I sincerely ROFLing @5:48... I swear, I <3 you, B! You pick the perfect movie clips in your videos. That's EXACTLY how I feel sitting in the cafe hearing some of the emotional and uninformed responses from my Morehouse brothers. It's like
..what? ...NOOOO! lmaooo
yostepyagameup 11 months ago
Been called 'holier then thou' myself when I was spreading information about the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. I was rather astounded since I really didn't consider regarding the betterment of the human condition as a whole to be remotely 'holy'...humane, perhaps...but not 'holy'. This is based on scientific study and research...not ascribing to some sort of 'holy text'...
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
Good videos we need more people who have a in-depth understanding of the Venus project sadly most people just watch the movie and feel there experts leads to a lot of misrepresenting just gotta get that knowledge out there
711Daniels 11 months ago
@jaguarclaw so your saying it's unnatural based on what? Heh. Cause it hasn't happen that's like saying it isn't possible to make anti gravity cause no ones done it. Simply put your like the people that used to write about how human flight isn't possible
Your arguement holds no water....
711Daniels 11 months ago
@711Daniels
perfectly responded haha, I was like, how the hell am I supposed to explain to him that just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean it will never exist. If that was the case, technically nothing would be here.
ALSO @jaguarclaw
evolution doesn't always mean physical change.
AnotherVoiceless 11 months ago
@Foxcanine1 Understood. The problem is when people are GIVEN a premise - basic, introductory level information, and their assessment of the Project clearly displays that they haven't even read THAT - then it's useless to point them to 'further' sources until they understand what we're talking about in the first place. If you watch BrutusCass original video, he wasn't asking for sources; he was making difinitive false statements about TVP/TZM.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
greater good of the society,these are nationl socialist ideas, who would want ot give up their indivualality for this crap,who would want to assimilated in to some techno drone worker bee with no self expression for the greater good of this weird technocratic nazi society,its all crap, wake up
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
actual zeitgeits,the collective,media government,religion etc,if you really are thinking for yourself you would see this guy is trying to charge alot of money to sell you plans and designs,if he is agains the monetary system why is he charging 300$ for a set of 5 dvds?and the ideas of the vp sound alot like that of nazi pary,the idea of people giving up their individualism is one held by the national socialsit party as well as the vp,so is everyone working together and sacrificing for the
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
thing under wraps forever,someone else will figure out what they may have foundor known about for years&tried to keep from us,it will get away from them eventually,certainly before any of this old farts hairbrained ideas ever change anything,people looking to this guy for solutions and taking every word he says as their new dogma are just as guilty of not exercising critical thought as the masses of sheeple who follow the mainstream media and except the status quo and what they are told by the
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
or not overnight anyway as he and the zm think or try to say,it will happen over time when resources begin to really run out and technology really starts to develop in ways that will change everything,the industrial revolution only happened 200yrs ago,we only had computers for about 50 yrs,&transistors werent widely used til the 60's,humans are in their infancy when it come to technology,&understaning of it,&it is expanding exponentialy just give it time,the elites wont be able to keep everythin
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
humans could develop a technological solution to any problem or shortage that may come in the future without this guy or the vp,there are scientisits and reearchers at universities working on these technologies right now,things would work out on their own before any of this vp crap ever happens,technology may very well solve all our problems in the future but the way he purposes,its nonsense propaganda,and 50yo antiquated ideas,nobody is going to change the status quo without a violent revolutio
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
tation to mave goos,and we wouldnt need to woryry about living in efficient circular cities with that and fusion power,we wouldnt need to conserve or live in that horrible manner he purposes cause teach like fusion will give us unlimited energy anyway,personal fabricators the size of microwave ovens or vending machine will be able to produce any item we want ,with no need to transport it and no shortages,u will download the iinfo or plans and the machine will produce whatever for the atom up
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
change things on their own and turn the status quo upside down,just because of the verry natre of the technology,and would certainly make all of these old plans and designs fresco has spent his whole life working out useless as well,his ides are stupid and short sighted,he makes no mention of fusion or tocamex reactors,or nano tech,self assmebling atoms,personal fabrication devices that may come along soon that could synthesize any molecule or product from raw atoms.so we wouldnt need transporta
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
@willywillyization im sure that oil companies and governmets do surpress alot technology,im not arguing that,im saying that the technology that is purposed in the venus project is old outdated or will soon be outdated,he has this whole thing planned out to work with old or existing technology but even thought vp will never happen ,even if it did by the time it was implimented the technology solutions he purposes would be be obsolete,there are new technologies on the horizon that may just change
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
to recognize fresco,or remember that this guy has been around forever trying to push his ides & agenda ,its old hat, utopian propaganda thats been around forever now trying to masquerade as some new idea(zm)2 get a new generation sold on it ,there is no problem they outline in the movie that isnt happening,its all right,& they know that,they know people will buy that part,cause its all true,thats how they suck you in,then when they have you,listening,they throw this crazy old utopian crap @ u,vp
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
educated to these problems in depth ,that they can get to join this movement,for whatever hidden agenda they are tring to push on them,they want you give up 1 set of dogmatic views for their own,we already know fresco is trying to sell shit,and the films tried to keep its true agenda hidden until the 3rd movie,or atleast downplay its connection to the venus project,its like they want to make sure people are sold before they reveal its true agenda,its aimed at young peolple not old enought to
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
attention,it trying to get to them first,the uneducated masses ,so it can co opt them and try to brainwash then ito believing its own flawed dogma,for it own hidden agenda,when i first saw zg&adendem i thought he did a good job at outlinig the problems,but anyone who is educated and can think for themselves would have already know everythin presented in the 1st 2 films,but in more detail,what is preseted is a quick topical outline with no real depth or discussion,it is aimed at people who arent
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
@willywillyization,i amnot denying that thoes thing are going on or exist at all, i am just saying that the answers and"solutions" purposed by zeitgeist the vp and fresco are old antiquated ideas from the 60's,they will never work,and i wouldnt want them too,if you had any ability to critical think you would see this is just tosell you bunch of bunk,old ideas,fresco is selling his designs,and his wacky utopian ideas,the designs for cash,zeitgeist is trying to educate the people who r not paying
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
The only reason (in my opinion, with the facts and data presented to me at this point) that the venus project could possibly not work, is the lack of open mindedness and cooperation between humans today. Thats it. Again i state that this is in my opinion only and I do not mean to impose this opinion on others.
Even before knowing of the venus project or zeitgeist I entertained the idea of a united earth. - "together we stand divided we fall" - I find this as absolute truth in a non violent way.
DefiantAlex 1 year ago
@DefiantAlex Amen! My thoughts exactly! thanks for sharing....
willywillyization 1 year ago
and thinks that his antiquated ideas & technolgy is going to somehow save the world,and zeitgeist movement thins that these ideas are just going to materialize magically out of thin air with no violence or revolution,it will NEVER HAPPEN!maybe someday the emergence of new technology like nano tech & quantum manufacturing like personal fabricators and self assembling atoms & new energy tech like fusion & 80 or 90%efficient solar will chang things by its very existence &nature,but venus never will
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
@bulletproof2353 Hey Clueless! If you had paid attention before opening your mouth, you'd see that Mr. Fresco talks about non tech. and the fact that there are other science and technologies which are suppressed and, therefore, interfere in human progress! Your ignorance shines through.
willywillyization 1 year ago
fo every meal too because it would be more "sustainable"and in the end the only think the enviornment coould handle,if that were the case they would purpose that too,the only people that would accept this are people living in the 3rd world,& why wouldnt there be aviation?it has proven the most efficient means of travel but is out and out dismissed by venus,planes can run on other fuel besides petrol,like electric or other renuable fuel,jacqu fresco is a 100yr old fosil with short sighted ideas
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
to live in tiny apartments cold sterilic circular cities?what is 2 billion people want to live in a chalet in aspen and 4 billion want to live in a beach house in malibu?etc..
people dont want to be assimilated to cultureless ,generic futuristic clothing wearing clones living in cookie cutter apartments,with no regaurd to architectural history and architecture as an art,with no culture or 1 generic techno culture sounds like huxley if u ask me,maybe we should eat a white gruel like paste for
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
the guy in the video says that marx didnt understand the potential of technology,but the venus project is a bunch of antiquated ideas from the 60's it does not take into account rapidly changing technology,i hear nothing about tocomax fusion reactors,nano tech,personal farbicators and other promising tech that might bring about change ,without these silly antiquated ideas,but just by the nature of the tech itself,& u cant create an abundnce of land or prime realestate ,what if people dont want
bulletproof2353 1 year ago
@bulletproof2353 Well in that case stay in your wonderful bubble of this wonderful world filled with wage slavery, political manipulasion, artificial scarcity where 40,000 children PER DAY die when in FACT we have the technology which is denied and science to prevent starvation, and perpetual exploitation in the interest of the ruling class, shall we??! Yeah - I'm all for that! Just stay ignorant and asleep to FACTS.
willywillyization 1 year ago
How the fuck can you sit there with a straight face after a video just explained that Marxist communism included private property, have you even read the communist manifesto?
machwon 1 year ago
@machwon You need to chill out and listen closer. He didn't say Communism included private property; he said it "presupposes property," as in "property" was confiscated by the government to be managed "for the good of the people," and is only relevant amongst scarcity. The RBE has nothing to do with confiscating property, or abolishing "private property rights." It's about producing an abundance of goods & services so that the the need for property is outGROWN, not outlawed.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago 22
Great response.
Svidrigailoff 1 year ago
YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL
maggottdude 1 year ago
this woman is a effin GODDESS!!!
javonne 1 year ago
As Jon Stewart would say, "BOOM!!"
AnarchistAsh 1 year ago
Hey, everything you been saying is so true, but the rich and selfish won't let go of there riches ever. you can try to explain to them that they are not really losing anything , but most will not listen. therefore, i believe the venus project will never happen without a revolution. One last war to end all wars and proverty. the guy who create the project has been working on it for over 70 years and has gotten nowhere with it cause people don't want to listen. so its time to force them to listen.
dayidahosucks 1 year ago
As usual, your videos are great. It's nice you take out the time to create them. You are greatly appreciated by all of us. Thank you
rishigangoly 1 year ago
I can see you being president one day.
Juefawn 1 year ago
Hi TVPchallenge!! If you dont mind me asking, are u a christian?
MrVictius 1 year ago
@MrVictius Hi. I don't mind, and no, I'm not anymore. You can watch Evid3nc3's series to find out why. (I mean, he is not the reason. I became agnostic a long time ago, but his series explains the elaborate thought process very thoroughly.)
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge Hi. Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to be sure because seeing ur videos, I couldnt make out what ur religion was. I am an agnostic as well and am aware of Evid3nc3's videos which are probably the best videos on secularism I have seen on youtube. Keep up the good work u are doing :)
MrVictius 1 year ago
BrutusCass is a childish moron. kid blocked me, lol. how can people like that be taken seriously ;/
UnluckyGambler 1 year ago
What would you do with those that want to exchange?
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip Nothing. Although, I am not sure who would want to continue to "exchange" in an environment of abundance. Why would anyone want to exchange something they already have, for something they have access to?
(If I want a new mp3 player, I can go online or to a distribution center and have my old one recycled or upgraded to any design for free. So instead of exchanging my painting for your mp3 player, I would just give you the painting for free.)
But people still can if they want to.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago 7
@TVPchallenge We have great abundance compared to most other places and times, yet we still exchange things all day everyday. The abundance sounds great, but I am suspicious that there will be a ruling class of people in your system, no? or is each person free to live their lives as they want, so long as they don't bring harm to others?
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip
i'm pretty sure it's the latter thinkchip, i think in the resource based economy everyone has access to pretty much everything. So there would be no special group of people. You would have access to food, clothes, and anything that can be produced with the resources at hand that would be available to everyone so there would be no reason for theft, homelessness(sp?), and status symbols.
RedLion502 1 year ago
@RedLion502 I'm an advocate of a non-violence based society and I'm suspicious of advocacy for any societal restructuring that doesn't have non-violence as a central tenet. A "resource based economy" strikes me as potential double-speak for another flavor of violence-based command economy as we have today worldwide including the US.
Also, I don't understand the need for this. We already know what creates plenty. It's called free people acting freely in free markets. It works every time.
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip I wouldn't say that they condone violence, their aim is trying correct the current conditioning that makes people violence/criminals/greedy etc. I think the point of TVP is also to eliminate most of what can trigger violence or corruption of any kind. But if i may ask what leads you to believe this is a pro violent structure?
Well free markets don't seem to work for the poor, jobless, slave waged sweatshops, overpopulated countries etc. Some would argue it doesn't work everytime.
RedLion502 1 year ago
@RedLion502 Actually free markets were reducing poverty consistently in this country before the national gov began the War on Poverty which, like the War on Drugs, is an utter failure (accomplishing the opposite of it's stated goals) and monstrously oppressive abuse of power.
A good test of what a system is based on is how people that try to act in disagreement with the system are treated. Here, if I don't pay taxes because I disagree with the wars, I will be assaulted. Violence.
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip While i agree that a "War" on anything is just a cover for more money i'm going to agree to disagree on saying free markets reduce poverty. With the outsourcing of jobs it's doing the opposite. We throw away tons of food for the reason that is was not "bought" and would rather throw it out. There are many homeless even though there are abandoned houses or forclosed ones. There are resources to cover everyone but the need to profit or be in position of power stands in the way.
RedLion502 1 year ago
@RedLion502 You may choose to believe that free markets don't reduce poverty contrary to evidence but you then give examples of government affected decisions as if they were the result of free markets. Jobs are outsourced when the business climate where they currently are becomes unprofitable. What makes that the case more than taxation and regulation (both based on violence)?
thinkchip 1 year ago
@RedLion502
Food is thrown away according to (potentially) violently enforced food regulations. Obviously not a fee market decision.
And how would you obtain these houses to give to the homeless, except by stealing? Violence-based redistributionist crap like the war on poverty do not work and are wrong. They impoverish us all and make homelessness worse.
In a human dignity respecting system like the free market, profit comes from win-win interactions and drives service and innovation.
thinkchip 1 year ago
@RedLion502 That's why I ask How would people that did not want to participate in the wonderful, technologically efficient, benevolent sharing of resources that you propose be dealt with?
In an truly non-violence based society, I would be free to trade dollars (or rocks or whatever) with my friends, if that's what I chose to do, so long as I didn't harm anyone else. I would also be secure in my person and property, not sharing it with your computer overlords if I chose not to. What of it?
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip lol hey no need to get snarky, i'm just trying answer questions you put out. I would imagine there would be no problem trading whatever you want so long as it doesn't become a sort of currency where you or anyone could gain a sort of leverage. Now i can understand these concerns and i am going to a Zeitgeist meeting today, i'll others about these questions and get back to you.
RedLion502 1 year ago
@RedLion502 Don't mean to be snarky. I really do appreciate your going through this with me. I really do want to understand what you guys propose.
I am even more suspicious though, seeing "so long as it doesn't become a sort of currency". So you would jail those that use currency?
I am all for punishing those that commit fraud, or assault, or kidnapping or any action that hurts others. However, my capitalist friends and I trading silver coins for products or services does not hurt anyone.
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip It's cool, it's informative to listen to other views of this system. It can help put more perspective to the supporters in how to deal with these kinds of questions.
now please don't take things out of context. the point of this system is to eliminate as many opportunities for corruption/leverage as possible, any kind of a currency would undermine the point of this social structure purposes.
I'll send you a link to a little more info that might help in a message to you
RedLion502 1 year ago
@thinkchip Actually in regards to the trading thing i think TVPChallenge had covered that in the response to you two weeks ago ^^^
RedLion502 1 year ago
@RedLion502 You're right it was addressed by her. My question is expanded in a response I just posted to her:
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You propose a person in a "distribution center" do some work to upgrade your old mp3 player for free. What is their incentive to do this? Who would administer this system, if not a violently enforced monopoly ruling class like government "servants"?
And if I don't want to have my property taken to be shared with everyone else, what then?
thinkchip 1 year ago
@thinkchip In TVP the "distribution center" would be completely automated, if someone chooses to design a more innovative mp3 player then yeah it would be for free. It may be a difficult concept to concieve, especially in the kind of environment we're in, but some people aren't motivated by profit. that would particularily be the case in system that has no currency.
But hey if you want to go into more detail then i message you cause there is only so much you put in these message posts.
RedLion502 1 year ago
@thinkchip (1/2) "I would be free to trade dollars (or rocks or whatever) with my friends, if that's what I chose to do..."
As I stated before, those who still wish to trade would be free to so so, but sadly you're still missing the point. I am "free" to wear my bikini in 32° weather, but I don't. I would be putting myself through unnecessary burden & discomfort, simply to obnoxiously "express" my right to do so. This is similar to asking if you are still "free" to trade amongst abundance. >>
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(2/2) Yes, but doing so would be silly & illogical, serving no other purpose than to "express your right to trade." It is as though you can't even fathom a scenario where you don't need to trade. O.o If you eat at a buffet, do you "trade" the items on your plate w/other people in the restaurant?? Or do you just get your food from the main overlord, I mean, the main serving dish? In the RBE, items do not have to be "unlimited" bc when used intelligently & efficiently, there's plenty to go around.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@thinkchip (1/3) "We have great abundance compared to most other places and times..."
Abundance "compared to most other places and times" is not abundance. The economic definition of abundance is "without competition." Therefore, regardless of what we have, and how much of it we have, if it is in high demand and we can't supply it to everyone at any given time, without exchange, debt, or servitude, it is not abundant.
"yet we still exchange things all day every day..."
Exactly. (cont'd) >>
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(2/3) Your statement that we still exchange things every day totally negates your so-called definition of abundance. If things were truly abundant it would be impossible, or at least illogical, to exchange them. We only exchange things for things we want or need, if we can't get it otherwise, which is not "abundance."
"I am suspicious that there will be a ruling class of people in your system...or is each person free to live their lives as they want, so long as they don't bring harm to others?"
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(3/3) For the 100th time, there would be no ruling class, no need for a ruling class, and no incentive to be a ruling class. Ruling what, or whom? For what purpose? To gain what, things that they already have, and can easily get? To control people? To do what, things that are already automated? It wouldn't make any sense in a Type 1 civilization, but it's hard to imagine from a Type 0 perspective. Yes, people are free to live their lives as they want, and these questions are answered in the FAQ.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You propose a person in a "distribution center" do some work to upgrade your old mp3 player for free. What is their incentive to do this? Who would administer this system, if not a violently enforced monopoly ruling class like government "servants"?
And if I don't want to have my property taken to be shared with everyone else, what then?
thinkchip 1 year ago
(1/4) "You propose a person in a "distribution center" do some work to upgrade your old mp3 player for free."
No. Of course, you would know this if you read the FAQ's... or knew anything about TVP at all... so the rest of your comment/question is totally irrelevant. It is fairly entry-level knowledge that the distribution centers would be automated (FAQ 76, 28). FYI - This is why the Challenge requires at least a basic understanding of TVP before debating it to avoid elementary questions. >>
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(2/4) As far as people having the incentive to design and build automation, see Q&A #1 on my 2nd blog, at tvpchallenge(dot)blogspot(dot)com. Go to androidcentral to see the mountain of apps that people design & distribute for absolutely free, in addition to the support, video tutorials, etc that people do in their spare time, just for fun, or for a great learning experience. That's just in the world of cell phones. People are doing this w/almost every craft and would do so even more if they >>
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(3/4) weren't burdened with income and survival needs, and had free access to all education & tools.
"Who would administer this system..." The admin (inventory, daily operations, etc.) would be automated as well, but those studying, and desiring to participate in, that particular field of cybernetics & automation would help oversee it. There is no incentive for them to corrupt or sabotage the system bc 1) it's their system too, which they will be using, and 2) they have nothing to gain. Like >>
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(4/4) everyone else, they already have access to everything required for a high standard of living (FAQ 63).
"And if I don't want to have my property taken to be shared with everyone else?"
For one, nobody wants your property. We don't need it to build a RBE so don't flatter yourself. 2nd, for the 100th time, we don't NEED to take your property to share it w/everyone bc there would be enough for everyone. If it's abundant, we don't need to take it away from you, to supply it to others. (cont'd)
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(4/4 cont'd) What "property" of yours do you suppose people will want, or what is it that you don't want to share? A mag-lev train? Yes, I'm sorry you would have to share that. If you want one for yourself in your back-yard, it probably won't fit.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge How would one how much property is the proper amount for one person? If this calculation is done through computers, could the computers be wrong?
nick01477 1 year ago
nice job
TZMMiami 1 year ago
BrutusCass is not a smart man, he just gets off on downing other peoples ideas. The fact is that he is ill informed and has weak arguements to support his thoughtless emotional statements.
muhammad282 1 year ago
Very Pretty girl
Baredamage 1 year ago
Why do some people say they don't like being told to read this, or check out that film or info? That's kind of what you need to do to become familiar with the ideas, and I have to say the level of stubbornness of saying 'I hate being told to'....check out a website or a clip....lol, come on.
Neanderthalcouzin 1 year ago
really. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN RESPOND TO THAT PERSON? your time is worth more than that. you cant make a idiot understand such complex things. he's obviously brain washed very badly.
its the opposite of how he has survived. just like when you're growing up and they say don't steal, lie, cheat, but in reality that is the only way to be succeed in the world
people are taught that way for a reason
teamgrn 1 year ago
I find it interesting how many of the responses to criticism of TVP revolve around the "misunderstanding" of the critic. Instead of pointing out the flaw in argumentation, you use ad hominems in order to discredit or insult the person who proposes a valid question. Why are you so against honest inquiry? I would think TVP would want to distance itself from this kind of discourse, given its overwhelming similarity to communist propaganda. And TVP clearly isn't based on communism, right?
anon56anon56 1 year ago
@anon56anon56 "responses to criticism of TVP revolve around the "misunderstanding" of the critic."
I agree with you in many cases, but this particular video is not a good example of your claim. In the very beginning I'm responding to HIS claim that "someone told him to do more research," by explaining why. So yes, a video response entails "responding" to what he said. You say "Instead of pointing out the flaw in argumentation," when that is exactly what I do throughout the rest of the video.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge My apologies for the accusatory tone in my other post, but you have to understand the frustration that arises when honest (though perhaps heated) debate is met with only "you haven't done research". I know that many of the arguments have been laid out before, but it seems like this is an "entry point" to TVP, and dismissing arguments is deleterious to both sides of the debate. Either way, this discussion has been enlightening, and I look forward to hearing more from both sides.
anon56anon56 1 year ago
@anon56anon56 "you have to understand the frustration that arises when honest (though perhaps heated) debate is met with only 'you haven't done research'."
Trust me, you are preaching to the choir. I am not a big fan of that response either, because I think it's counterproductive. I have written a blog on it here: tvpchallenge(dot)blogspot(dot)com.
Thanks :)
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
Brandy, sweetheart, u are so precious! Ur vids r always judicious. And I can't think of a more articulate (or, indeed, beautiful!) spokes-person...
MCP2012 1 year ago
Don't waste your time responding to people like Brutus Cass. You empower him with your attention to what he says, which is nothing more than that which has traditionally been said again and again to combat the ideas of the progressive. He oversimplifies his arguments and views, and thus he is not worth acknowledging. He is about mincing words and appearing right with the last word. You have more productive things to do than lend credibility to someone with no credibility at all. Ignore him.
XDavid23x 1 year ago
Great stuff!
TZMNorway 1 year ago
You have given me inspiration by exhibiting such patience.
(sigh)... I know that this should always be given, but when I'm met with nothing beside doubt and intentful discouraging while trying to explain these concepts, I admit I stoop to frustration and a hopeless feeling. (I KNOW it must be just from misunderstanding)
So once again, thank you. I would call this "model behavior" for someone who understands an R.B.E. would work.
WhoCaresJay 1 year ago
Congratulations for your patience. =P
I know how hard is to reply every nonsense ideia against VP.
But time (and hard work) will tell!
\o
jmjulianomoreira1985 1 year ago
fish for a man and he eats for a day
show a man to fish and he works half his life to eat
get a robot to fish for him he can do other useful things with his time
cricketol 1 year ago
Thank you TVP! Keep up the good work!
dudeedud7 1 year ago
Since I have now posted a few comments, TY just asked me, a human, to input a series of letters to match some random group of scrambled, distorted letters, thus ensuring I am a human and not a machine. This usage of a “captcha” is a perfect example of the limits of technology and that a human mind is still more advanced then a computer. I could not better illustrate my point in any other way; thanks YouTube!
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld lol - Your example is so out-of-context I don't even know where to begin. We'll skip over the fact that this is YOUTUBE (of all systems, one of the crappiest & most frustrating, an end-user system that's FREE bc they use... gee... I wonder... oh ADVERTISING in the monetary system, lol) and grant you that it's an example of another more advanced system used today... Saying "See, technology is crappy in a monetary system" supports what we're saying about technology in an RBE.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
In other words... "This usage of a “captcha” is a perfect example of the limits of technology..." IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM! lol - Especially technology that is available for FREE in a monetary system, and is therefore obviously not the best quality, and must be equipped with SEVERAL safeguards against ABUSE, such as spamming, which someone might do to a website that isn't theirs and has no concern for, in the current system.
SO MUCH of this crap would GO AWAY with the worlds most advanced tech.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
Also, a human mind is more "creative" than a computer, but not more "advanced" or capable of handling more data. In fact it's already a given that computers can handle significantly more data than humans combined, so what we're dealing with here is limited technology (YouTube), not technological limitations.
No matter how much more "advanced" you think you are, you'll never be able to do complex math faster than a calculator, keep track of all the worlds resources more accurately.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge My mind can do more then just handle data...Computuers have their place, that's for sure, but I will never pray or bow down to one...Never! lol.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge thought you might like this einstein quote
"Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid. Human beings are incredibly slow, inaccurate, and brilliant. Together they are powerful beyond imagination."
suckseedorsuckeggs 1 year ago 22
@suckseedorsuckeggs I agree with you, but understand humans will always have a hand in how society is run, but computers and machines are simply tools or an extentsion of us. The aim of the TVP is to create abundance for all people on Earth using the scientific method and advance technologies without the use of money, barter, and government.
creamone 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld A human cannot take into account thousands of parameters in arriving at a decision to any degree that can be called effective, yet a LOT of decisions require such calculations. Computers can do this with millions of parameters in 1 or 2 seconds, effortlessly. Technology is a tool, an extension! The sheer fact that we have it is proof it is capable at fulfilling a purpose that we don't want or feel less adept at handling manually.
Tanoro 1 year ago
@Tanoro The world (nature) is run by a dynamic, self-motivated aggregate of decision makers; thus maintaining a dynamic stability. CPUs will NEVER have sufficient insight, nor could any creature, to “judge” the needs of any facet of my life or that of any creature, be it a fish, fungi, a tree, etc.. My environment created me, and then I alter it, all within the boundaries of nature. Trying to dictate and direct nature always results in colossal consequences. I’m no collectivist; are you?
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld You're projecting falsities. Nobody is suggesting we judge or direct any "facet of your life." We are suggesting taking account of what resources we have and using computers and machines to make it available and calculate where it needs to be sent to provide abundant resources to everyone. There's no dictation implied in our plan.
Tanoro 1 year ago
@Tanoro I have heard Peter Joseph say many times "You're projecting this and that". Be original. Like I said; you think there is a way to manage nature. Good luck with that. I will live whithin nature and you can watch it from the sidelines in your holodeck from Startrek. What do you know of nature? Research the word Ecology!
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld I would love to be original, but you're making the same mistakes he deals with which is why I'm giving you the same response. Again, I tell you that we're not suggesting the management of nature. STOP PROJECTING THAT! We're not suggesting anything Startrek. The technologies we advocate are current technologies proven effective at doing what we're describing. If you want to disprove that, please present something that does so.
Tanoro 1 year ago
@Tanoro
I’m being mean to you and I know it. Sorry; I’m just frustrated. Don’t take it personal. I don’t know you and shouldn’t judge. TVP is about managing the “resource based economy”, right? How can you manage natural resources without managing nature? It’s simply a play on words. Anyway, TVP appears to be void of any examples besides pictures of futuristic cities and such.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld TVP never said they are managing nature, unless your talking about using nature as energy like wind, solar power, geothermal energy, wave energy. That's harnessing the power of nature. TVP wants to intelligently manage the Earths resources using Super Computers. The technology exsists, it's a matter of programming and setting up sensors around the world, and satellite communications. These technologies exsist.
creamone 1 year ago
@Tanoro I don’t see any real life implementation of this VP concept possible. I’m no communist, but do believe technology should not be owned by another. Copyright laws hinder us all and are of little merit. All discoveries are only possible because of past discoveries. Imagine there was a copyright law in effect prohibiting someone from using the technology of fire. But I do not believe we should exploit/manage/govern/monitor, etc.., every facet of the natural world with a PC and so on.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld Obviously you haven't taken any time to read or look at any videos presented by TVP. There is enough information on TVP site for a college course. So unless you actually didi some research, you shouldn't make negative responses. What is your solution for a better world? Or do you think the world we live in is fine?
creamone 1 year ago
@creamone Ah, you want a better world. Good; so do I. The question then is better for whom? Just for us or for every living thing? Since we are dependant on other life forms for food, and our food is dependant on other creatures, a sane person’s answer would be the latter. The study of ecology is the science which addresses our concerns. Permaculture is the study of ecology as it relates to humans and can be utilized in the real world. Nice 350z.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld Listen Jacque Fresco has been advocating TVP since the 60's & 70's. He's been on Larry King in the 70's talking about TVP. (VIDEO IS on YOUTUBE) There is no correlation other than a circular design. The Myans build pyramids does that make them copy cats of the Eygptians? I'm started to think your ignorant. Don't debunk and idea if you don't know what you are talking about, you look stupid. I see no problem of incorporating permaculture techniques in TVP.
creamone 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld Since TVP is a grass roots movement, and all of human creativity and knowledge will be desirable in creating this system, perhaps you should join and contribute. From your comment it appears that you know a thing or two about ecology. Any and all suggestions for structural design are certainly welcomed.
ChaotePD 1 year ago
@ChaotePD Thank you! Join, no; contribute, sure; so long as the abrogation of mentally exercised choice is not championed by the idiot masses. The most advanced technology in existence today, is, and always will be, intertwined with man’s mind, thought and intention. The PC is useless without a monitor, keyboard and human mind, to assure its competency. The structural design must be dynamic, organic, and resilient to environmental stresses, much like a forest; that’s all I contend.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld *multiple facepalms* Nevermind. I'm done. If you're going to repeatedly assert that after I repeatedly said we're not advocating that, it is abundantly clear you have no intention of actually understanding. You are arguing with somebody else. When you're ready to talk to me about the things we're ACTUALLY advocating, I'll be happy to discuss it.
Tanoro 1 year ago
@Tanoro
Ecology (from Greek: οἶκος, "house" or "living relations"; -λογία, "study of") is the scientific study of the distributions, abundance and relations of organisms and their interactions with the environment.
Source: wikipedia.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
Brandy - Good job explaining ... I hope Brutus takes the time and keeps his response reserved until he researches what he needs to grasp this amazingly cool version of our world where we actually share and care; not hoard and compete - otherwise, its going to be a lot hassle on YouTube... time will tell...
Sally66Anne 1 year ago
I need someone to rebuild my chimney so I can avoid freezing this winter, and guess what; a mason will have to labour himself for this repair to happen. I will have to labour for the mason directly or earn paper money to pay for him to employ his own labourer. Avoiding the monetary system altogether by employing myself as his labourer allows me to derive greater value form my own labour. Make sense?
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
For instance, since the beginning of civilization, farming has been the largest industry in the world; yet, we somehow are going to eliminate that with machines to ration the managed resources of the planet…Right! The current economy IS resource based already. Humans all over the world trade their labour, time and technology (skills & knowledge) for paper money (representative money), which is then traded back for REAL goods and services BELONGING to another, including labour.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld "The current economy IS resource based already."
No it's not. Resource-Based as defined in the term "Resource-Based-Economy" does not mean "we use resources" or we "base value, or labor, etc on resources." It means precisely that we *design* the entire economic system on, and ONLY on, the entire planet's available natural resources, which can only be done with a global inventory, and a network of systems that are constantly updated and in communication with each other.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge I just want to say I think what you are doing is great. I think if people want to undermine the real moral behind the movement they should really just leave you alone. Kudos to you for having the patience to bare with them, I don't know why they don't just go and do something better with their time then complain about you. I study psychology and I think they just want a response from you to gradify themself. But yeah wow you have the patience of a tree lol
xXsantino07Xx 1 year ago
I am of the opinion, and it’s only my opinion, that the real world is far more complex and dynamic then TVP implies.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
Your candor, and presentation, and way of speaking are always appreciated by me, TVPChallenge. I admire your work, and dedication. Please keep up the wonderful work. I hope you're getting enough encouragement to make all this worth it. I've written editorial after editorial with no feedback, and it's making it hard to continue doing what I'm doing on the journalistic front.
Best regards,
DJM
dmorlan 1 year ago
CONT..Well, while harvesting corn, the combine machine broke down mid day, half the day was wasted taking the bad part out, and now two days are wasted waiting for a replacement part to arrive. How would TVP have helped this situation? Please help me to understand how a machine can feed me more efficiently then nature.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
TVP claims to be the answer to sacristy through the implementation of modern technology. However, yesterday I was visiting family on their 500 acre farm, and I can tell you that technology is not the answers in of itself. For example, this huge farm is managed by only two aged men, who utilize the best technology has to offer and the goal seems to be the reduction of the human labour (human resources) component of farming to maximize yields. CONT BELOW.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld (1/2) You're missing the point - the family on the 500-acre farm is not "TVP" and that's exactly why the equipment broke down in the first place, and why it took half the day trying to fix it, much less TWO DAYS for a part?? In TVP it would be done in minutes. I agree that "technology" is not the answer in and of itself and that's why TVP requires a global "systems approach." Segment 6 & 7 of "Where Are We Going" explain this. One thing breaks down, another one backs it up.>
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
(2/2) But more importantly, in TVP everyone is free to grow their own food if they so choose. There is no reason why people can't have an aquaponics farm or whatever in their backyard. The technology (vertical farms, etc) is simply a means of providing healthy food in large quantities to a large amount of people, in natural ways (hydroponics, aquaponics, etc); its simply an efficient means of permaculture.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge
Hydroponics is not really natural at all; it's actually like TVP, in that it is meticulously managed and very vulnerable to collapse. This is due to its many needs that can’t be fulfilled by a machine. Nature is the only self automation which will ever really exist, but I do get your point. ALLOWING a bean, squash, or any other climbing plant to grow up an apple tree would be my version of vertical farms, and this is a permaculture practice existing today.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge You said, “in TVP everyone is free to grow their own food if they so choose”, but wait a minute…I just watch Peter Joseph tell Alex Jones, in an interview on your channel, that human opinion would be removed in a TVP world. I’m serious; it was on your channel that I heard this. If my opinion and yours do not matter, then why doesn’t TVP matter to us?
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
@HowToChangeTheWorld "...human opinion would be removed in a TVP world." No. Human opinion would be removed from the DECISION MAKING process regarding systems that affect humanity. Meaning we all need food, water, air, shelter, technology & personnel to maintain a high-standard of living, healthcare, and planetary resources. So "opinions" (or politics) should not be used to manage those. Period. If someone wants to grow flowers in their yard, raise fish, or wear green pants on Thursdays... Okay.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
I hear you; I do, but you fail to realize that YOUR time that YOU are now free to spend communicating with me, is indeed a resource that can and will be managed in a TVP type of world, simply because your opinion is not needed in the decision making process of managing you and me as a resource. You are converted to a human resource which is to be exploited to a degree which we in the western world find it hard to comprehend is possible, until we look at the current third world.
HowToChangeTheWorld 1 year ago
The reality of people like BrutusCass is best summed up by this quote from Max Planck:
.
"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - Max Planck - (Father of Quantum Mechanics)
xephyr1000 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 You know what, this is a sad truth. Thank you for showing me this quote.
BigOnBass0421 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 I have been working on mircogen systems which I hope to introduce in my local area, I help the organisation Emergcy while I was in Italy teaching their volenteer Doctors to speak English and translating for them as well as other activities all un paid work may I add, please explain what you are and have been doing other than spreading your so called message?
"
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 So you believe in 'Ethic of Reciprocity' that is intersting, you also say that you are "Consciously EVOLVING" well that is a little ironic considering your statement about knowing the mind of others!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 oh and one last thing before you get all upperty about me saying that you havea mix of arogance and ignorance I will explain why I state so clearly. Your arogance comes from you claiming to know the mind of another. And your ignorance is that of not even bothering to question that mind before you make such a stupid claim. Then I will add your stupidity in using another mans words to try to make yourself seem intelligent!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass I stand by every word on my profile. And I'm sorry you are cannot comprehend what it says. :)
xephyr1000 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 Oh I just read your Interests:I'm not against any belief system, EXCEPT when those systems------ 1) CLAIM absolute knowledge which they cannot prove 2) DEMAND these claims be treated equal to evidence 3) INSIST their dogma be forced upon civil society and integrated into Law
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 4)CONT.. EXPECT their "beliefs" to be pushed as legitimate alternatives to real Science 5) REQUIRE special privileges and standing the rest of society does not receive (i.e. hate-speech, tax-exemption, etc.) Everything else can be handled through the Civil Legal system. I don't expect to play 'Thought Police' with anyone.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@xephyr1000 Summing up... Well that is all well and good except, you have the words "Christianity is a DANGEROUS cult of fear," that seem to contridict your part about I'm not against any belief system (you are being rather inclusive in your statement!) Then you talk of hate-speech when you use a quote which talks of the death of others! And though you claim not to play thought police with others you claim to know what others think and prejudge them on the thoughts you think they have!!!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
I find this video very well explained and "straight to the point",well done Brandy! this is maybe one of your best videos yet. We all look forward to your next video
Northstar247 1 year ago
Therefor you are stating that VP is in fact a futuristic techo form of comunism! my case in point. Just because you have someone claiming that it is not I suggest you read the 10 plank of communism, and the meaning of the word. To make common. Marx never finished his work he died before he did so why are you all quoting Marx?
I will make a video responce as you have missed the first video, and started with the second on the VP, if you had watched the first you may have had better context!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass ok,let think about something,you say it is futuristic comunism.The comunism is one big political body state,dont you really see the difference between the political and the scientific method in taking decisions?Where did you see a political body controlling people.How is that possible when you have not money,hence authority over people?Why will i become a soldier?What will make me kill other person?
milanstoyanov 1 year ago
@milanstoyanov So far all that has been given is word defination, you say a scientific method, this term as nothing to do with the Method in science which is, observe, theorise, concluded, then requestion, if the last part is missed it is not science but dogma! Now the discussion you have here can easly be had without the VP, the VP is one possible solution, it claims to be able to solve the problem, but the problem must be solved by people not a Title!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass If you draw the line you will see there is many more things in common between the communism and the capitalism,rather the communism and the RBE.
milanstoyanov 1 year ago
@milanstoyanov If we look into things we will see that generally there is very little difference between the practise of any system. The difference between Facism and capitalism and communism is only a question of points of view and where you are sitting and viewing them, and really it is all a RBE it is just a question of how the accounting is done and who is doing it, anyway until something is demostrated as it is it is nothing but words.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass Actually I make the definitions of communism & Communism quite clear in my blog "TVP vs. Other Social Systems" at tvpchallenge()blogspot()com. You are the one that is arguing semantics by saying "some form of communism" in order to define TVP as you see fit, rather than define it by ALL that it is. TVP involves "holding things in common," just as it involves "regard for the environment," but we do not call it "techno-environmentalism," because that is not its only characteristic.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge No your blog which you claim to make the definition is in fact arguing semantics by the very definition of the word semantics! but lets look shall we The Venus Project agrees that land ownership needs to be abolished that is the same as the first plank of communism. Ok you claim there will be no tax, but as you system will control all resourse that in fact the will be just one big super tax, so that is planks 2,3 and 4 removed from the problem in one foul swoop! CONT.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge CONT.. Oh and as the system will be in the hands of a CPU then Plank 5 is covered. This will also take care of plank 6,7,8,9 and 10. Spin it around anyway you wish but what you will end up with is a Futuristic Techno form of Communism! Centralised thought and centralised control is by definition Totalitarian and as a computer will control everying dictating resourses it is a dictatorship. Basically it's nothing more than a brave new world!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass Question. Are we having a discussion about what we actually propose and are trying to accomplish w/TVP, or what you think might happen as a result? Bc if you think that TVP is actually *proposing* a totalitarian communistic dictatoriship, then I was mistaken in assuming that you wanted to have a serious discussion. That is not the goal at all, not how the SM would be used, nor how the (network of, not central) cpu systems would be used.
I just want to be clear before we continue.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge Well certainly my concern is partly about the final result, and that is due to the fact that THP show these cities and Jacque talks a lot about his cities and the system, there is little talk concerning small scale local projects or steps towards arriving at these ends, now maybe I have been asking the wrong VP activists but so far all have told me that a computer will control everything and no one has talked about how humans will be involved in the running of the system.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass I see. Well, once again, I will not 'assume' that you have not watched Peter Joseph's presentation "Where Are We Going" in its entirety, but if you have, you either forgot, didn't understand, or weren't paying attention...or something. There is a specific segment in there 'dedicated' to explaining exactly how humans will be involved with decision-making processes, and how every individual has access to input ideas, models, etc. and could participate on the teams if they choose.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge That would be the one where people get that silly idea about how the Agricultal revolution gave us greater freedom! a thing that many VPers state which is clearly wrong as it infact was the start of our enslavement. In fact he doesn't really say anything that would be new to anyone who had spent time studying matters, so maybe I did not watch it all as it does seem rather shallow as an intro,CONT
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge however It is a pity that you were not able to remember the exact words yourself however or even provided a link to were it can be found in the case that I had not watched it, and it also seems that others of the VP that I have communicated with may have as you say, "you either forgot, didn't understand, or weren't paying attention..." as they like yourself could not quote him, but at least you can remember where you heard it.
BrutusCass 1 year ago
@BrutusCass Not only can I remember many of the exact words, but I can picture the slides that went along. It is not something that can be simply explained in a comment or message, which is why I referred you to the video.
As far as providing a link, I thought you would know to type "Where Are We Going, Peter Joseph" in the YT search. It is also in my playlists. I have also listed out some segments with timestamps at tvpchallenge(dot)blogspot(dot)com. I don't know how to make it any easier.
TVPchallenge 1 year ago 6
@BrutusCass You've said it yourself friend. "Unless you change your mannerisms and systems of exchange..."And how does one go about changing their mannerisms? This is a question of culture, and cultural interaction, who's primary medium of exchange is linguistic. Are you familiar with a process called praxis? If not you might look it up. This is the process Zeitgeist Movement is engaged in. One can't engage in the integration of ideas, and information into culture without talking about them.
ChaotePD 1 year ago
@TVPchallenge I say that because you have missed out the manner in which thie will be done!
BrutusCass 1 year ago
From my understanding, not every single detail of the economy or the society proposed by the Venus Project is completely automated. You see the automation only comes into play where "drone like" responses would take place, like passing groceries over a scanner and asking for payment, or a miner truck following a path going to and from the pit to extract materials. We can automate these processes. There is still maintenance and several points through these processes that need human interaction
rjm5alistar 1 year ago
@rjm5alistar Let's remember,