Part 3 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA

[millamulisha]

There is no such thing as 'LDS science', there is such thing as 'bias science', as to say 'interpreting the small datum to support my weird religion'-science. You see science, as a human endeavor, can stand on its own... as opposed to Religion which has an old, or if you are a Mormon 'newish', piece of literature written by unscientific narrators... Also, 'unpublished' means unscientific...

[nickleus1977]

i would like to give fairlds credit for at least allowing comments contrary to what they believe so that open debate may take place. thanks =)

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

The DNA used to condemn the BoM is mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Women pass mtDNA to their children. All of us got our mtDNA from our mothers. The other genetic marker being used is the Y-chromosone (Y-chr), which is passed by men to their sons.

Tom Murphy & Simon Southerton say the BoM is false because Middle East mtDNA can not be found among the American Indians. Southerton also says the same thing about the Y-chr.....cont....

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

Our 2nd daughter married a man whose father's paternal line is Danish, and his mother's line is Japanese. They have two sons & a daughter. All three children have the mtDNA of their mother, which is my wife's mtDNA, which is from Sweden. The boys have their father's Y-chr, which is from Denmark.

Using the same tests that Murphy & Southerton used, one can prove that those children have Swedish ancestry, and that the boys have Danish ancestry too.....cont....

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

But No One can prove that they also have Japanese ancestry. If the tests cannot find any mtDNA from their Japanese grandmother, who is alive and well, how reliable are those tests in finding Israelite DNA from 2,000 years ago? The lack of Japanese mtDNA in those children does NOT mean that they are not part Japanese.

The lack of Israelite DNA in the American Indians does not disprove the Book of Mormon.

[nickleus1977]

@GaryKColeman you are making a false/erroneous assumption that native american ancestry went through similar, frequent multicultural/multinational mixes/intermarriages (as is quite common today, not thousands of years ago). if that was the case we would see mtdna from many different geographical origins. we dont. it is primarily from asia. we know why, bec they came over the bering (ice) land bridge between siberia and alaska (no more recent than 12000 ybp) and were isolated until "columbus".

[nickleus1977]

"No One can prove that they also have Japanese ancestry" read about autosomal dna (atdna).

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

You are absolutely right, atDNA would show their complete ancestry.

But I said "Using the same tests that Murphy & Southerton used, one can prove that those children have Swedish ancestry, and that the boys have Danish ancestry too, but NO ONE can prove that they also have Japanese ancestry." Y-chr & mtDNA can trace only the direct paternal line & the direct maternal line, but nothing in-between. Going back to the 10th gen, 510 ancestors are not accounted for....cont.

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

I am not assuming any multi-cultural mixes. I am talking about one culture of 30 people entering a well established culture of tens of thousands and inter-mixing. The smaller culture would be swallowed genetically. Y-chr & mtDNA are not practical for trying to find the minority culture 2,000 yrs later.

Autosomal shows greater promise to finding all ancestry. Unfortunately, this testing has been done on only about 3,600 Native Americans.....end

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

Did you come up with this all by yourself, or did you get it from Southerton's playbook?

A careful reading of the BoM shows that there were "others" here. Southerton even states, "In 600 BC there were probably several million American Indians living in the Americas." His other claim about a "whole empty hemisphere" puts his claims against the BoM in serious trouble.

Archaeology shows that the Americas had inhabitants 13,000 to 15,000 years ago.

[fairldsorg]

@nickleus1977 Actually, we state just the opposite on our homepage. Be careful.

[GaryKColeman]

@nickleus1977

The change to the BoM intro was announced to the press. That isn't much of a "cover-up."

Science has shown that the earth is a couple of billion yrs old.

The Bible says God created the earth & everything on it in 6 days. Jewish & Christian prophets & other religious leaders have been teaching that for millennia. Even Jesus, the Son of God, did nothing to correct that false teaching.

Are you angry with them also?

[TheSkepticChristian]

@GaryKColeman nickleus1977 just blocks people, when he thinks they are lying too him. I never lied to him, he just never let me explain to him. He, like many others, just simply don't like the LDS church, they simply like to talk bad about the church without being open to other possibilities.

[GaryKColeman]

@TheSkepticChristian

You are right. Nothing we say & no amount of evidence we provide will ever change their minds or beliefs.

In his book, "Shaken Faith Syndrome," Michael R. Ash stated, "Some ex-members have even claimed that if there was irrefutable evidence that Mormonism was true, they would still reject the Church & rebel against God because of the things they found distasteful."

I think that is true of many anti-Mormons.

[TheSkepticChristian]

So I can send it to you in a private message

[TheSkepticChristian]

I just send you what Daniel H Oaks said in a private message. His statement is too big, to fit here. So that will answer your question. Anyone interested to know what apostle Oaks said? Just tell me :)

[nickleus1977]

@TheSkepticChristian TSC sent me oaks' quote on not asking to be guided in all things. then a todd compton quote about how "prophets" can make mistakes. my reply:

"For example, this is likely to occur in those numerous circumstances in which the choices are trivial or either choice is acceptable."

thus, your oaks quote is completely irrelevant to the issue of a truth that is taught consistently for 170+ years.

"but by recognizing that they can make serious mistakes."

consistently for 170+ years.

[TheSkepticChristian]

@nickleus1977 No one is perfect, its sometimes easy being led by the holy ghost, its sometimes not that easy, its sometimes not that clear. We are here to progress, and we do make mistakes. Wanna know what the doctrinal truth is?? Its called official doctrine. I will send you the definition of official doctrine. So nowhere in official doctrine would you find that the Book of Mormon took place in the USA. We only know from official doctrine, that the golden plates where hidden in the NY hill.

[nickleus1977]

@TheSkepticChristian "nowhere in official doctrine would you find that the Book of Mormon took place in the USA"

until the church changed the introduction to the book of mormon in 2007, it stated that the **lamanites are the principal ancestors of the american indians**

[TheSkepticChristian]

@nickleus1977 Not official doctrine

[Klongo0815]

meeh.

cant even take a look in ur "temple".

what r u doing there in secracy?

[omiolo]

Many years ago two colleagues of mine—a nurse and her doctor husband—asked me why I lived the way I did. I answered, “Because I know the Book of Mormon is true.” I let them borrow my copy of the book, inviting them to read it. A week later they returned my book with a polite “thanks a lot.”

[omiolo]

The Book of Mormon teaches of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and is the instrument by which God will fulfill His ancient promise to gather scattered Israel in these latter days.

[omiolo]

The Prophet Joseph Smith said “that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.

[omiolo]

Students, along with some faculty and staff members, spent the day performing temple ordinances, planting tulip bulbs and helping to prepare the Mormon temple grounds for the 33rd Annual Festival of Lights. They hung thousands of Christmas lights and helped assemble a stage and set pieces for a live Christmas créche, which opens Dec. 3.

[omiolo]

KENSINGTON, Md. — More than 250 students participated in Southern Virginia University's sixth annual Temple Service Day in October at the Washington D.C. Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[omiolo]

"How in the world could Joseph Smith have carried the plates under one arm and 'run at top speed' through the forest," the e-mailer wrote, "jumping over logs (with a documented life long limp from a surgery he received for typhoid fever and had to use a walking stick later in life) while fighting off three separate men where at least one hit Smith in the head with a gun?

[omiolo]

I can assure you that if you pick up a 50- to 60-pound dumbbell and try to run with it in one hand, you couldn't run more than 100 feet, let alone three miles through the forest. Those men would have easily been able to catch Joseph Smith and subdue him. This story doesn't make any sense.".

[omiolo]

After I wrote an article about the weight of the Golden Plates (about 53 pounds) and the number of plates required to engrave the current Book of Mormon (about 20 pages), one person sent me an e-mail disputing a recollection of Lucy Mack Smith about her son Joseph Smith Jr.

[chrstilen5]

Seartch

the book of mormon and dna according to farmers logic Jarkko1983

And in the top video you'll learn about this DNA stuff in the Book Of Mormon.

[wachnathan]

Ya how much money are you guys getting paid to make this stuff up by the mormon church?

[nickleus1977]

your channel's flagship video (this video) is 2.5 years old. here's a quote from Ugo Perego's most recent conclusion on the subject, from the fairlds website: "the DNA of Lehi and his party has not been detected in modern Native American populations"

[fairldsorg]

@nickleus1977 And I agree with him. We will never detect Lehi DNA in the Americas, simply because we don't know what Lehis DNA looked like.

[nickleus1977]

@fairldsorg the issue is not lehi's dna, it's finding mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) in native "americans" today that matches mtDNA in jerusalem.

[fairldsorg]

@nickleus1977 I am not sure how much Ugo has looked into the SNP data that is mentioned in this video, therefore, cannot comment on his beliefs. I am also curious why you are only interested in mitochondrial DNA?

[nickleus1977]

@fairldsorg 1) who from fairlds am i conversing with? =) 2), the book of mormon claims, and it has been taught for over 170+ years by church "prophets", that the natives of the americas and even neighboring islands are direct descendants of the house of israel, that the americas were reserved for these peoples, that nobody may be brought there w/o "God"s approval (9/11?). DNA (tangible, physical, testable evidence) tells a completely different story. for the record i'm interested in ydna too =)

[TheSkepticChristian]

@nickleus1977 " it has been taught for over 170+ years" yes but you have to understand the Gospel, and the purpose of the church, and that the prophets of God are also human.

[nickleus1977]

@TheSkepticChristian i was a mormon for 32 years or were you being sarcastic? =) the gospel and the purpose have absolutely nothing to do with this issue. that the "prophets of YHWH/elohim" are human is a weak apologetic argument because they have the problem of then explaining why the "holy ghost" has "confirmed these 'truths'" from the "prophets" to members for 170+ years =)

[TheSkepticChristian]

@nickleus1977 "mormon for 32 years" and its sad, because based on what you have told me, you don't understand the gospel yet "absolutely nothing to do with this issue" Believing that the BofM took place in MesoAmerica, or in the USA, it doesn't matter, we are free to think what ever we want, thats not the purpose of the church, or the gospel."is a weak apologetic argument " Noo, you are the one that does not understand.

"problem of then explaining "" You should read what Apostle Oaks said.

[nickleus1977]

@TheSkepticChristian "we are free to think what ever we want, thats not the purpose of the church, or the gospel." that's exactly right, being free to think whatever you want is not the purpose of the church or the gospel =) and you should read what "apostle oaks" says concerning the purpose of church literature: "Balance is telling both sides. This is not the mission of the official Church literature". =) your church controls your information and excuses 170+ years of errors with bad rhetoric

[TheRationalChristian]

@nickleus1977 well I am sorry, for not explaining myself. To be honest, I read what you wrote, too fast, sorry for that.

[omiolo]

Junior Melanie Cox doesn't drink or do drugs. Cox said she believes both are wrong not only because they are against the law, but also because they are sinful.

She is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which believes in the Bible's teachings and the Book of Mormon.

[ChristianAmerican]

@omiolo What does this have to do with the BOM & DNA?

[omiolo]

@ChristianAmerican was my comment the ONLY comment you could NOT find a correlation? Or more specifically why chose me?

[ChristianAmerican]

@omiolo I've just noticed on many of these videos you ramble on & on about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the video, & it's never in response to anyone's comment either.

Is this the only forum you have to copy articles (or whatever it is you're doing)? What reason do you have for all the endless drivel that's not even on topic?

[omiolo]

@ChristianAmerican "ramble on & on"

is that your way of saying you lack comprehension skills?

[ChristianAmerican]

@omiolo There are definately lack of comprehension skills at play here! :) You answered my question. This is your only forum. Continue the drivel!

[wannawatchu66]

@omiolo No, comprehension has nothing to do with it, much like your posts have nothing to do with the videos you post under. I see I'm not alone in wondering why you "ramble on & on." Is it your way of being a troll?

[omiolo]

@wannawatchu66 Yeah, how dare someone give you CORRECT information. I am sorry you are against such!

[wannawatchu66]

@ChristianAmerican I've wondered the very same thing myself. I don't know what his point is either. I don't think he even has one.

[omiolo]

The week also includes several special events, including a genealogy kids' camp for youths in grades four through 12 and a concert featuring the Mormon .

[22EBola22]

According to your FAIR website, FAIR does not represent the views of the LDS Church. If Dallan Oaks came here and attempted to dispute one of FAIR's opinions on what constitutes LDS doctrine, would that post by Oaks be seen by your "book burning" censorship as "NEGATIVE", and thus not allowed?

One of the FIRST indicators of a false religion is their blatant attempt to censor ideas and alternative views--or even critical views. Thanks for proving which you are promoting--a TRUE way or FALSE.

[omiolo]

He added that conservation is a natural built-in part of the planning process. Weve always been interested in following best practice in industry. Whatever the best thinking is, we want to latch on to that. If there is a new technology that reduces total cost of ownership, makes good business sense, we want to tie into that.

[omiolo]

Jared Doxey, director of architecture, engineering and construction for the Church, said, Its important that buildings are designed to be a reflection of the community in which they are constructed.

[FAFYWARRIOR]

There are things stronger than the science is God's power. i get so happy in knowing that science this showing the world that book mormon is true but testimony is something much stronger that science can imagine.

[Dalessiokiller]

@FAFYWARRIOR

Well said

[laryon]

this is so funny.......Joesph Smith was a Freemason and he found out that the South and Central America were really a mixture of south African and Northern Asian people and he made up this racist fictionsous story and you all believed it and cant let it go but it 's all bull and this is confirmed by your own admission on both side of the controversy ..... Now Science is wrong when it tell a different story.

The Moors

[pangeanet]

"Allow every American have freedom of FAITH without any consequence or quarreling for we are NATION of FREEDOM and the pursuit of HAPPINESS" -Andrew Jackson

[Sylosis333]

Did anyone else notice how they spent the first 4 minutes in a sad attempt to prove that dna correlates with their story. He slips the afro into the asiatic. The linguist says he found something amazing but i havent published it yet. Maybe cuz he knows hell be laughed at. Then for the last 2 minutes they're saying science can't disprove them because they can feel the holy spirit? So can muslims when they blow up innocent people.

[ToThisEndWasIMormon]

Opponents to the church suggest that there is no DNA similarities... when we produce DNA evidence, they attack the evidence.

So can we all safely say that opponents to the church live off of opposing the church and have NO desire to be convinced even when evidence is becoming available?

We are finding, in some cases, two snowflakes are alike but they'll argue that two snowflakes can not be alike and that it's been proven in their mind as such.

We can't help the faithless to have faith.

[Tobsy1981]

This isn't evidence this is nonsense.

You're obviously not able to distinguish the two.

[ToThisEndWasIMormon]

@Tobsy1981

It's obvious that your mind is already made up leaving no room for any possible faith in it.

[Tobsy1981]

History and reality have nothing to do with my mind.

[Tobsy1981]

You're brainwashed and you want to believe that silly story so badly that it doesn't matter to you that's complete bs.

Sorry bra you're in a stupid cult.

No oxen , no Iron, no wheat.

No evidence whatsoever.

[ToThisEndWasIMormon]

I have a witness of the spirit. According to Jesus Christ, that is all we need. Archeology has yet failed to prove anything before and during the Exodus. Moses went away and there wasn't even a grave for him! Or for Abraham, Isaac or Jacob!

How do we even know there was a Moses? What about the parting of the red sea? Where are the armies that pursued the Israelites? Chariots buried under the Red Sea? Where is Mt. Sanai? Why no records of Joseph of Egypt? The answer is "faith"

[Tobsy1981]

Exactly.

The exodus story is nonsense.

There is no non-biblical record of Jesus's existence.

You start with a false assumption.

Faith is belief without reason

"Faith" is a bad thing.

[king1bogey]

You need to do your research. There is plenty of extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus lived.

[Tobsy1981]

"witness of the spirit" and a dollar might buy you a coke.

[ToThisEndWasIMormon]

According to an Apostle, it's enough...

1 John 5:5-6

[Tobsy1981]

@ToThisEndWasIMormon

What a sad argument.

I know the history of both The Bible and the BOM and I place little to no value in either.

None whatsoever in the B.O.M

So why would you use a bible verse?

I,unlike most Christians have read and understood the bible, it's a pretty gruesome and despicable work of fiction.

[Tobsy1981]

@ToThisEndWasIMormon

Is there any other instance where you believe something without reason?

Do you believe there are cities populated by dwarfs deep underground?

There is no reason to think so right?

Same can be said for your faith.

You believe in something after you've been given reason to do so, to do otherwise is childish and silly.

[NoAntecessor]

TothisendwasImormon, I totally agree with you on the lack of evidence for the exodus story. However, I heartily disagree with you for the answer to why that is.

[athono]

So? This does not show that native americans are from hebrews.

[ToThisEndWasIMormon]

the study continues.

[omiolo]

When missionaries in the Mexico City North Mission knocked on a door in the Riconada Ward one Saturday evening, they found 26-year-old Marco watching television with his girlfriend and her mother.

[omiolo]

Missionary moments: Firm and steady

[omiolo]

All three drove back to Colorado with their families.

"Both times I've done this, it (seems) too soon to be over," Perdue said of the journey.

The trio already has started planning their next bike trip in two years. It might be from Nauvoo east toward Washington, D.C., or from Salt Lake west toward the Pacific

[omiolo]

It's a chance to get away from all the distraction of the modern, busy and complicated life and think about what I want to think about. It's a good chance to reconnect in a lot of different ways," Perdue said, adding he doesn't ride with headphones. "I didn't expect that to be the case."

[omiolo]

He approached Hansen and Bolton about the trip earlier this year, and they joined in.

"I've been surprised what a good missionary tool that these things are. On the Nauvoo trip, I had a lot of opportunities to talk to people," Perdue said. This trip, they wore matching red and black jerseys with "Temple to Temple" on them, and people would ask them about their trip at rest stops.

[omiolo]

But he figured taking another three weeks off and having his family follow his 12 miles an hour speed wasn't going to quite work again.

This summer, his wife's family was having a reunion at Bear Lake on the Utah-Idaho border, and he saw his chance to leave a week earlier and ride from the Denver Colorado Temple to the Salt Lake Temple.

[omiolo]

"It's the longest one I've done before or since," Perdue said of the 1,500-mile ride across the central U.S. "Ever since that trip, I really wanted to (do more) temple-to-temple (rides)."

[omiolo]

"A lot of the digital samples that we use are taken from Aeolian Skinner organs, which is similar to Tabernacle organ.

"The digital organ is equivalent to 130 ranks of pipes, or equivalent to the Conference Center organ in the number of pipe ranks. The Tabernacle organ has 206 ranks."

[ArizonaDesertPiper]

The Church will always be subject to these attacks. Such attacks only serve to substantiate the fact The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is  true.

[yeshua4U]

Great logic.

Because there are 2 billion Moslems that hate the Jews, by your logic would make Judiasm more true than Mormomism

[judastefarianist]

Your comment is misleading. There is no single piece of logic that will ever prove/disprove a church. It is just one piece of the puzzle

[nickleus1977]

@judastefarianist actually the evidence that homo sapiens began approximately 200,000 years ago and not 5800-6000 years ago is a great single way to discredit judaism, christianity, islam and any other old-testament-based/abrahamic religion.

[TheSkepticChristian]

@nickleus1977 Cont. "homo sapiens began approximately 200,000 years" according to National Geographic, we all had a common ancestor, they found Genetic Adam. According to Nat Geo, he lived about 70,000 yrs ago. and sorry, but you are discrediting nothing.

[ArcticWhiteZ]

what a childish claim

[ArizonaDesertPiper]

Brothers & Sisters, It is a waste of time to try and debate or point out facts to these Mormon Haters. Facts mean nothing to them .There only goal is to sucker you into a "Bible Bash". Only Satan wins these. Paul and other Apostles and Prophets have warned us not to do this. When you call them names you are just resorting to their level of lowness, and risking making a unrighteous judgment.. Please do not do these things. Just love Heavenly Father and follow Christ.

[yeshua4U]

I appreciate how precious our faith is to all of us. To paint all opposition with the same brush "Mormon haters" is cheap trash talk.

To base the verasity of your faith on "feelings" (and I have feelings) is poor, untrustworth, and unfitting the child of God. The Bible says "Study to show thy self approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed."

Our faith should be ground solely on the Bible. Only trust our feelings IF they line up with the Bible, only the Bible. Any thing else is sand.

[yeshua4U]

I find it curious that, at the time of writing there is a count of -3 on the above comment of mine. It is a rational, logical part of an intelligent conversation and there are 3 people that devalue the comment because of the "I don't like you" , "you are not on our team" factor.

What a poor reflection of people of faith.

[omiolo]

WOW,

how about you STOP with the whining?

[22EBola22]

@ArizonaDesertPiper

"Just love Heavenly Father and follow Christ."

BUT. As I know from personal experience I could not get a temple rec'mnd UNLESS AND UNTIL I also agreed to "follow" Joseph Smith and the then current

"President" and CEO of LDS, Inc, Gordon Hinckley. Following Christ IS the "way", but it is disingenuous of you to leave out completely that Mormons must also follow, just as devoutly, the modern so-called "prophets".

[ArizonaDesertPiper]

@22EBola22 If you truly beleive what you have said it is clear that you do not understand the Holy Bible and LDS Doctrine. To receive a Temple Recommend you are required to knowledge that you follow God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. You are also required to acknowledge that you recognize Joseph Smith and the succeeding heads of the Church as Prophets. This is no different as acknowledging the writers of the Holy Bible as Prophets.

[22EBola22]

@ArizonaDesertPiper

Show me a scripture ANYWHERE, where members of God's church were REQUIRED to swear allegiance to ANY huMAN--arm of flesh? Simply acknowledging a President (Monson) as head of LDS, Inc is easy to do. I'll do it now. Monson and all preceeding Presidents of LDS, Inc. WERE the head leaders of Mormonism. But to say they are God's chosen emisaries (prophets)

is VASTLY different. Humans can claim anything they want, including Prophetship. Historically, 1000's have done so.

[22EBola22]

ADPiper.

Then why wasn't I asked if I believed Peter to be a Prophet of God--or Paul as an Apostle?

To threaten members with being locked out of the "celestial kingdom" (LDS heaven) because they won't acknowledge another human as a supposed Prophet is ludicrous in the extreme!

[22EBola22]

ADPiper

If there is "no other name under heaven whereby one can be saved" but Jesus Christ, why would his supposed church countermand that dictum by adding OTHER names--names of human beings? The ONLY answer is: LDS, Inc is NOT His "church".

[ArizonaDesertPiper]

@22EBola22 Jesus Christ is the only name under Heaven you can be saved by and that is the Doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If you were in fact LDS then you either never understood LDS Doctrine or you are intentionally being ingenious.

[ArizonaDesertPiper]

@ArizonaDesertPiper You are still showing a total lack of understanding of the Temple Recommend requirements. You do not swear allegiance to Joseph Smith or any other prophet, you recolonize them as such. Further any hymn that praises a Prophet a Prophet of God praises God who sent him.

[ArizonaDesertPiper]

@22EBola22 Again, you have shown a lack of understanding of the Holy Bible and it' origins and LDS Doctrine. The only words written by the hand of GOD in it are the 10 commandments. The rest was written by His chosen Prophets who He spoke to directly or through the Holy Spirit. The Temple Recommend requires you recolonize the Prophets not worship them as you indicate. If you accept the Holy Bible as Scripture then you are also recognizing the Prophets that wrote it.

[22EBola22]

@ArizonaDesertPiper

I certainly DO recognize that LDS call these men prophets. If Joseph Smith is not a necessary name, along with Peter and Paul, to accept as Prophets, in order to go to the temple and receive the "saving endowments" why get members to swear allegiance to those men? I never said you were to "worship" them, although singing is a form of worship, and when you sing songs of "Praise To The Man", it does seem a bit heretical.

[LDSTrueChurch]

""For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." (Acts 20:29)

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matt 21:43)

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,..." (2 Thess 2:1-3)

[medavog]

how many woman did you have sex before making this video FILTHY PIG!

[LDSTrueChurch]

Are you looking in the mirror before you comment here?

medavog, what demon possesses you to be the evil servant of satan that you are?

[omiolo]

"before making this video FILTHY PIG"

wow, you sure have some issues!

[Greatwhytesatan]

Get over yourselves Evangelicals... Go handle snakes or something. The Book of Mormon is true. Secular studies are proving it. By the way the Utah Church is not the only "Mormon" Church. -|Proud Community of Christ member

[LDSTrueChurch]

Greatwhytesatan,

You will have to be rebaptized

[judastefarianist]

As a Community of Christ member, what in your opinion is/are the major differences between your church and the LDS church?

[godluvsmormons]

FAIR has no grounds upon which to build a defense of Mormonism as an historical fact except conjecture and dubious interpretation of unanswered historical questions. The Incas, Mayans and Aztecs were never Mormons or Christians, they were pagans and you can't find anything in their cultures that bears more than a surface resemblance to anything in the Bible or about Jesus.

[LDSML]

Is he saying Hebrew and FINNISH around 3.42??

[fairldsorg]

He said "Hebrew and Phoenician", but it does sound like he said Finnish.

[LDSML]

Rats... I was afraid of that. But it did sound finnish. So MY theory is not proven yet. (Smiley grinnig). Anyway i heard that there are some indians taht DO speak language that is closer to finnish than english or any germaic language. It really blew me away once as I

[LDSML]

heard some indians talk in tv.. I was sure I should understand what they were saying.

I always said Fijnnish speaking are the 10 tribes, otr at least one of them. (Smiley with a grinn) Come on, who would lift the tale of a cat if not the cat herself! Back to wait pasiently modus.

[TrueChurchLDS]

The Statements made by these men are valid and thorough research.

And I saw a great a spacious building and it was filled with people and they pointed and mocked. And I beheld that the building had no foundation.

[lord69z]

You do know there is Junk science right?

People TRYING TO PROVE what they already believe make the gravest mistakes and use skewed data.

You do know that people faked tons of evolutionary apes (skulls and such) to get recognition among other things.

This is doubly funny watching mormons trying to prove total falsehoods with science.

You wanna prove this?

SEND IT TO A PEER REVIEWED MAGAZINE.

IF YOU DATA IS CORRECT PEOPLE WILL TEST IT.

If the tests are correct - I'd admit i was wrong.

Let's see

[TrueChurchLDS]

"The siberian connect to Alaska is NOT the issue, they MUST have used MARITIME routes."

Michael Coe 1999, The Maya Volume 6

Michael Coe never openly said the book of Mormon was true, but LDS know that the Book of Mormon begins with a family that built a boat and came from the OLD world to the NEW world.

Read the book of Mormon for yourselves having Faith in the Lord Jesus christ and He will manifest the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost.

[majesticdragoon]

I've read it,

no bueno

[tamsanqa11]

lord69z

fairldsorg responded to another misguided individual that commented something similar to yours: (1 week ago) Actually, it is coming from peer reviewed non-LDS material. Nice try though.

[Des2Digga]

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

[urloony]

Why is it that almost every LDS video has one of these guys. You know, the guy that comes on and just says everything is shit, without offering any insights. Why bother? Now that "doncorleon818" has said it's all shit it must not be true! After all, some random internet user is clearly more knowledgeable than some of the best DNA scientists in the world found at BYU. Just look how eloquent his writing is, he is clearly an enlightened fellow. I do like Mohegan Sun's jingle though.

[doncorleon818]

yawn....zzzzzz.......you people are clearly delusional. Thank God you people will never have any real influence in society. Rational people can see you people for what you really are.

[deboradec3160]

Lack of DNA evidence? GREAT!!! That just makes it so much simpler. So the limited geography model of the BoM is the most likely. Hey, their on the right track. It is, after-all, like looking for a needle in a haystack.

[skyaglow]

garbage you say?

well then tell me just when was the last time you read the book of Mormon in its entire?

hmm just what i figured, You have not read it right?

then what gives one the right to insult and judge and misjudge a book one has not even read??

[doncorleon818]

wrong moron! I have read that piece of shit book. I also have studied the numerous changes your leaders have made to the book since the time of its original publication. You people are so brainwashed it is not even funny. It is quite sad and pathetic.

[urloony]

ahh the great and spacious building... seems like a nice place actually. Can't say that I've been there myself, but I hear it has a nice view.

[revelations146]

I believe you're already there loony.

[urloony]

Thank you for your kind words. I find it hypocritical when people fail to do their own research and rely completely upon what anti's have come up with, and then think to themselves "gee DNA, I've seen that on TV that proves everything!" These folks typically fail to realize that the Americas were highly populated prior to Lehi and that many, if not most, were later killed by the conquistadors. They then puzzle as to why the DNA isn't showing up and conclude the BoM isn't true.

[revelations146]

Very well put.

[Jarkko1983]

because this looser has lost the battle of dna science, here comes another topic, "changes"

It's hard to stay in the topic when one looses completely, but these changes have been explained logically long time ago.

One who has read the changes without any cmments to distort, can see that they don't change the meanings at all pertaining to the lds doctrine, but clarify some passages that would be obscure in literal translaton to english from the plates.

[Jarkko1983]

my comment was for doncorleon

[revelations146]

Now don, don't hold back. Tell me how your really feeling. Are you sure you're not Italian?

[doncorleon818]

Nah, just a big fan of the Godfather movies. I am Native American and I have done extensive research regarding mormon recruitment of Indigenous Peoples. The lies they spread are sickening.

[revelations146]

Very good interviews. Trying to prove the BoM through science was never God's intention. He wants us to learn gospel truth through His spirit. The BoM will never be proven false through DNA nor will it be a method in proving its truthfulness. The professors in this video have a good grasp of that knowledge.

[ChristopherMillz]

I'm no expert on DNA or genetics but it seems to me that if God darkened the skin of the Lamanites, (basically changing their race) then wouldnt that have altered something there as well? I'm just thinking out loud. I know it brings up another debate as well but if you believe that we all came from Adam and Eve then it becomes obvious that God has changed the race of many people since that time(for whatever reasons) and that He has the power to do so. Neither man or race came about by chance...

[sdr24]

My own purely speculative theory is that the darkened skin was due to Lamanite intermarriage with already existing indigenous peoples - something that would have been forbidden under the Law of Moses. This might explain why the Lamanites darkened in skin and the Nephites did not.

[Lightcycle]

Interesting insight.

[doncorleon818]

Oh yeah!! "GOD" can do whatever the heck he wants! "GOD" is such a cool ass dude!!! He sits up in the clouds and plots how he can confuse those evil scientist. Those evil scientist and their snake oil!

YOU people are pathetic!

[2ool8]

Do you consider anybody who does not believe your side of the story "anti-Mormon"?

[fairldsorg]

Not at all. Personally, I consider those that attack my faith, without regard to truth, anti-Mormon. That means that they keep bringing up arguments that have been proved wrong, ignore facts, pick and choose facts to help prove their side of the issue, etc... Basically, those who really don't care if it is true or not, but just want to see the Church destroyed. I believe they draw near to God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him.

There are other varying degrees as well, IMO.

[omiolo]

"Half of the annotated DNA alleles of Native Americans are only found in the Middle East".

You should rename this video. The video that Antimormons don't want you to hear.

[fairldsorg]

LOL! Very funny!!

[happylinuxguy]

They say right in the video that science can't prove that the book of mormon is true. Then the other guy bears his testimony and he knows it's true because of the spirit. If this is proof, they're contradicting themselves completely.

[omiolo]

"science can't prove that the book of mormon is true"

that is correct. The truth of the Book of Mormon is that Jesus is the Christ, the Literal Son of God. Science can NOT prove the ATONEMENT. I do NOT care how much DNA you have.

[omiolo]

"he knows it's true because of the spirit."

that is CORRECT, God does NOT lie.