Oh Shawn my belief that they are seperate beings comes from reading the bible not from growing up LDS. I don't read in the bible that God was some great spirit mass that seperated itself into 3 personas. And if that was the case then are they still seperate now since we know Christ returned to Heaven in his body? Or does God (3 in 1) now have a body and that is what Stephen saw as you described it? The docrine of the trinity came from the Catholics not the bible.
@USAConservative2012 Not once have i heard any LDS leader sit there and talk about other religions.. Christians, its funny how u fight with LDS members when Christians cant even agree in one Religion,do you even know how many christian religions there are out there? i bet you cant even count them. The Bible you think we dont believe in.YOUR BIBLE.do you know how it was created? do you know who put it together? The Catholics. Here you are arguing.....when your bible was organized by them.
@USAConservative2012 Its funny how you tell me what i believe, and how i am. i know the "facts" and i know everything you people mock us for, i know. i know what Joseph smith said. ive been in the church almost my entire life, not once have ANYONE or ANY CHURCH LEADER has told me what to believe in fact i dont think ive met one. The LDS church does not tell u what to believe, they share with you what they believe, if u have questions about it then pray.
@USAConservative2012 from what u say you must be christian, and you talk about facts. its is facts that have proven god, the bible all religions wrong, and u talk about facts? Listen to your self and have some respect for other people's believes, do you really think Jesus him self would act the way the guy on this video does? One thing i have always learned in the LDS church is Respect for other religions and people. thats something christians havent been able to do.
See how the trinity doesn't work? John 17:1-3. Jesus Christ asked that people would know that the Father is the only true God. The trinity doesn't come from the Bible. Also, in John 20 Jesus states "My God my God".
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true. The only way to know is to pray and ask God yourself. I come from a family that used to be predominately Catholic and Protestant. The spirit of the Lord is present in lds churches, when missionaries teach, when you read the Book of Mormon(Another Testament of Jesus Christ), when Prophets & Apostles of the church speak, and at all of the Holy sites in Jerusalem.
*Go to God and ask. It's the only way to truly know. He'll never lie...
@Tank94Mage Yep. James 1:5 caused Joseph Smith to pray. People claim Joseph Smith taught against Christ. If that were so why was he so diligently seeking to know which church was true? That's another thing. When he prayed he thought at least one of the already-existing churches was true. It never even occurred to him that none were.
@majinish Yep. My main point I am trying to get across is that Mormons can only know to ask God first if they find out to ask him first which isnt asking God first.
25 or so years ago i was talking to a friend of mine and he said something that stuck with me to this day. what he said was you can tell a baby that big foot was his grand father and the baby would grow to believe this his whole life. I dont remember what the topic of our discussion was but Im sure it wasnt religious .
All these ignorant people just running their mouths, the major dangerous is the lack of knowledge of the things of eternity, and refused to repent of their weakedness. Theres no other Gospel, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints was fortold before the foundation of heavens and earths(universe). the only one and true Gospel, for as long as our Heavenly parents witness from the heavens, our Lord Jesus Christ and especially God the Holy Ghost.
But did those changes in the Book of Mormon change the doctrine? Did it change its message? Did it change the truth it contains? No it does not change it at all.
The 1st edition of BOM , riddled with grammatical errors. This questions the text written by man or translated divinely. More significant errors in early editions of the BOM such as changing the name of King Benjamin to King Mosiah,King Benjamin was already dead at this point, or changing that Mary was the 'mother of God to the son of God'.
The 3,913 changes to the 1st edition of Book of Mormon. The book Smith called 'the most correct book on earth. Smith a con!
Look at John 17:21-22. Christ was praying to God and asking God to make his apostles one even as He and God are one. Were Peter James and John 1 person? Im pretty sure they werent.... He was asking God to make them one in UNITY. God The Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are seperate.
Shawn, you can't answer the question; you look&sound so retard,dum&stupid; you're very ignorant; from genesis - revelation, there's no such thing as a trinity; that's true, so, if their one, who did Jesus Christ pray to through out His ministry? you're a biggest joke i've ever known in my entire life; i've never come across, the most retarded person like you; get a life;
Shawn, everything you've said to Mark, is so retarded; the way you explained yourself, you need to be in a mental instute; your absolutely mentally retarded; you are a curse, your totally lost:
@CWMaua12 200 AD Tertullian "Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, one essence, not one Person, as it is said, 'I and my Father are One' [John 10:30], in respect of unity of Being not singularity of number" (Against Praxeas, 25)
Shawn, the way you explain yourself, you look absolutely dum, retard, stupid&foolish; your respond to Mark's question, is so retarded, Mark's question is, if God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one, so who did Jesus prayed to? and then your answer Shawn is, Jesus was praying to His Father; what kind of answer is that, you are a biggest retard joke i have ever know, you should be ashame of yourself;
@CWMaua12 Jesus did pray to the father. They are three distinct persons (not seperate mind you) but the make up the one being of God. What I see from you above is a bunch of ad hominem and misunderstanding of Shawn's view point.
Was not Shawn an excommunicated Mormon? & then he knows. When it comes to the issue of TRINITY vs, THE GODHEAD, Shawn will side with the Mormons after all, he knows the difference...he just doesn't want to be known as a TRINITARIAN.
The Prophet Joseph Smith's First Vision of TWO PERSONAGES that appeared to him...one calling him by name & point to the other saying: "This my beloved Son, Hear Him" Go figure!
@leSavaii I appreciate you letting these people know about the truth and the truth only; it's really sad that, these people are totally lost; we still have to keep helping them, rather they like it or not, we have to correct them, and educate them of the things of eternity; the hard thing is, if they don't humble themselves, they will never, ever, get the message; through out the scriptures, there's no such thing as a trinity; they should always ask this question; who did Jesus always pray too?
@singledad1234 im glad you believe Jesus is Lord, as i do. but if youre going to claim to be His desciple, i think you should consider cleaning up your language. James 3:9-10"With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be."
@singledad1234 What a hypocrite you are. And you think you can escape judgment - You who pass judgment on others for sin and practice unrighteousness yourself - What a hypocrite.
You're making a biggest fool out of yourself Shawn, you can't answer Mark's question, you're completely ignorant, retard&foolish; what a shame. look, from Genesis to Revelation there's no such thing as a trinity; you need a lots of help, and repentance to do; don't get offended; pray.
@FUwogs You know, talking to you and Shawn, youre ignorance&retardation, i can help educate you both; look! from Genesis to Revelation, there's no such thing as a trinity; both of you are absolutely blinded about the things of eternity; don't get offended;
@soccer21928 You said Mormons really have no clue what the bible says - And i replied, I am sure you dont know as much as you say THEY dont know about the bible.
@soccer21928 You dont know why? Let me show you - what is the name of the Lamb of God? Were you going to say Jesus? Now Read Heb 4:8 and 4:14. Tell me what the difference is between jesus and joshua. Also, tell me when the Messiah died, where did he go? Heaven or Hell? We will see how much you know.
@BaruchHashemYahweh the difference is, Joshua lived around 14 centuries because Christ came. i dont see your point with the verses from Hebrews, their talking about 2 different people. Jesus died, then He went to heaven. and yes, the Lamb of God is Jesus. John 1:29-"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
@soccer21928 You dont see my point because you dont understand - just like the mormons you spoke against. Maybe you should learn more before you bash mormons - we are all trying to learn my friend - mormons arent the ONLY ones in error. Joshua means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. This is the correct english translation which i showed you in Heb 4:8 and 4:14 - they put Joshua in verse 8 and jesus in verse 14 - They are the SAME. jesus is an incorrect transliteration of the messiahs name.
@BaruchHashemYahweh and like i proved in my last post, John said Jesus is the Lamb of God. i noticed you didnt even address that verse. Jesus is the greek rendering of the Hebrew name Yeshua. hebrews 4:8 and 4:14 are talking about to totally different people. Joshua is the english rendering of the Hebrew, Jesus is the english rendering of the greek. that doesnt mean one of them is wrong, and it definitely doesnt mean Jesus isnt the Lamb of God.
@soccer21928 jesus is not the rendering of his name - i have already shown you joshua is the english rendering of his name NOT jesus - that is a transliteration not translation - JEE ZUS does not match Yahushua - JAH SHUA matches. Even Yeshua (Yay Shua) does not match JEE ZUS. Yes jesus IS WRONG Joshua is the correct english translation - you seem to forget the Messiah was HEBREW not GREEK - you say neither are wrong YET you use the GREEK FALSE NAME for your HEBREW MESSIAH.
@BaruchHashemYahweh you are incredible. yes Jesus was hebrew. the Old testament was written in Hebrew. but the new testament was written in greek! and the greek rendering of Yeshua is Iesous, and Iesous in english is Jesus. go do your research. you think because they sound differently its a mistranslation when hebrew, ancient greek, and english are all totally unrelated languages. thats not how it works. look up the name Iesous, and tell me what you find.
@soccer21928 Jesus was greek not hebrew. Yahushua was hebrew as you stated in this comment. The NT was written in greek and hebrew as well - i know what the greek rendering is - like i said before it is a TRANSLITERATION not a TRANSLATION - look up the difference. The reason they sound different is because it is a different name. Like i said Yahushua hebrew Joshua english sound the same. We have many greek words we use - Anthropology - anthropos is man in greek Same as Greek in English.
@soccer21928 No one ever said because they sound different its a mistranslation - but it is painfully obvious that a translated name is close to the original - JEE ZUS is a transliterated greek name of Yahushua. Even our modern names sound the same in other languages because they are properly translated (not transliterated) Mark in spanish Marcos. David in hebrew Daw-veed in Greek Da-beed. Same name. Notice the difference once again between Translation and transliteration. jesus is false.
@BaruchHashemYahweh are you saying that every scriptural passage that makes mention of the after life must mention both heaven and hell? especially since ecclisiasted is just describing the nature of human existance? your logic is baffling. the Bible definitely speaks of heaven and hell, and the only way to believe in universalism is to ignore the facts. like you do when John identifies Jesus "(and the greek manuscpits say Jesus) as the Lamb of God.or prove that Jesus is not the Lamb of God.
@soccer21928 U can't answer BaruchHashemYahweh's question? U know what, this pentacostal christian movement, is the most biggest joke i've eva come across; truth hurts? U r as retarded like Shawn; Shawn don't know what to say; all the answers u give BaruchHashemYahweh is wrong(false); what an insult. U answer me asap;
@CWMaua12 do you think youre so important that i have to answer asap? and if your going to insult shawn's intelligence, it doesnt help when you mispell, of all words, "retarded" and "dumb". it really looks bad. and im not even pentacostal, so i dont know what point youre making. and youve Got the concept of the Trinity wrong. they are one God, but not one PERSON. they are 3 Persons, so Chrsit prayed to His Father who was STILL IN HEAVEN.
@soccer21928 Look, mr. ignorant u&Shawn r in the same company of ignorance,retardation&rebellious spirits; do u call that intelligence? Shawn just look really stupid&retard, he can't answer the questions, u r one of them kind of people; what shame; why don't u ask yourself this question&meditate aabout it; who, did Jesus Christ prayed to, through out His Ministry? was He Praying to Himself?, wow, all u r nothing, u &Shawn& the rest of your kind of people r not all there;(retard)
@CWMaua12 its one thing to believe in the Trinity. but you dont even know what the doctrine teaches. there is one God. you still with me? in the one being of God, there are 3 persons. The Father, Son, and Spirit are NOT the same person. they refer to each other in the 2nd person. The Son became a man. the Father and Spirit DID NOT. when Jesus was on earth the Father was still in heaven, he never left. you just dont understand the basic difference between Unitarianism and Trinitarianism.
@soccer21928 Your ignorance will remain with in u, &saddly, the scriptures is so true about people like u, quote, in my own words, it better to fight w/a beast then ignorant&retarded people; well, good luck&good try; one more thing, this will be my last time to talk to u; but, ask your self this question always&meditate about it, who was Jesus Christ praying to, if God the Father,Son&the Holy Ghost are one? U really, really, need to pray mightly about these sacred things b4 God;
@CWMaua12 thats the same question youve been asking. Jesus and the Father are not one person. why cant you understand that? God the Son is NOT God the Father! He is NOT! They are different persons, so its not Jesus talking to Himself, Jesus was talking to another person. you have probably asked the same exact question 4 times now.
@soccer21928 U need to get over it, U,Shawn&those that hate(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints,) which is the only true church is a waste of time; no unholy hands can destroy the church:
@CWMaua12 So by accurately describing the doctrine of the Trinity, necause i dont misrepresent it like you, im the one who needs to get over it? this is pretty sad denial on your part. you can keep repeating yourself, but it wont change the fact that youre wrong.
@soccer21928 Do u know why i kept repeating myself trying to educate u on the subject of the trinity, because your retarded, ignorant, thick head will never ever get it, its like i'm talking to a mentally retarded person, and i believe u will never get it until u humble yourself with a contrite spirit and God will lead u by the hand and answer your prayers; all u do is looking for faults in the Church the only true Church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. there's no other Gospel.
@CWMaua12 yes but you keep repeating error. if your gospel says its ok to call people ignorant and retarded, then it can hardly be the true Church of Christ. of course it isnt, you mormons are polytheists, you believe in many gods, thats not the gospel of Christ. we Christians believe in only one God. a heretic like yourself, who can not even understand the Trinity wont change this. i heard what you said, but youre WRONG. how many times did you ask who Jesus was praying to? it poses no problem.
@soccer21928 Theres no other Gospel, The Church is True(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints). i've explained myself very clearly, a while back, we r da true decendants of da Native Americans, languages,cultures&traditions, from Israel,Arab,Asian,India,Native American&Islanders, very very similar, da old testaments talking bout da scattering of Israel almost half of da globe, from Israel, to Asia, India,America,&da Islands of da Pacific.
@CWMaua12 oh really? the old testament mentions israelites in america and the pacific islands? show me where that is. in reality, thats a myth that joe smith came up with, and you actually believe it. and one more time, the Doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one BEING who exists in 3 PERSONS. so when Jesus prayed to the Father, it was one PERSON taking to another PERSON, NOT one God talking to another God.
@soccer21928 continue on, also, ur so spiritually blinded of the subject of the trinity. i cant keep on educating u on this subject. if u dont understand it then nothing i can do. either ur spiritually blinded or ur mentally retarded. i felt like im talking to a very rebellious,hatred,spiritually blinded and mentally retarded person. well, truth wont go thru ur thick head anyway.
@CWMaua12 you cant call me ignorant when you dont understand the basic definition of the Trinity, as it had been believed long before your heretical, pseudo-christian cult came along. you have no facts or reasoning, you just repeat assertions you cant back up. which is what mormonism is all about. feelings not facts, and its very sad to see.
@soccer21928 U need to get over it, U,Shawn&those that hate(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints,) which is the only true church is a waste of time; no unholy hands can destroy the church: good try;
@BaruchHashemYahweh and like i proved in my last post, John said Jesus is the Lamb of God. i noticed you didnt even address that verse. Jesus is the greek rendering of the Hebrew name Yeshua. hebrews 4:8 and 4:14 are talking about to totally different people. Joshua is the english rendering of the Hebrew, Jesus is the english rendering of the greek. that doesnt mean one of them is wrong, and it definitely doesnt mean Jesus isnt the Lamb of God.
@soccer21928 You said Yahushua died and went to heaven? What verse does it teach that? READ Acts 2:27, 31 - It says Yahushua's soul was in HELL not HEAVEN. So which is it? Heaven or Hell? The lamb of God isnt jesus - the lamb of God is Yahushua.
@BaruchHashemYahweh wow. first, acts 2 is taken from psalm 2:7, a messianic prophecy stating that Jesus would not be abandoned to the land of the dead. by Jesus own words (Luke 23:43) He went to heaven after he died. and it seems you do not know that Jesus is the greek rendering of the term Yeshua. Yeshua was Jesus' Hebrew name. He and the Joshua of the Old Testament had the SAME NAME, but they were not the SAME PERSON.
@soccer21928 I know what its taken from. So which is it then if you have understanding, tell me - did he go to HELL as in psalm 2 or Heaven as in Luke 23:43-46? If you say Luke 23 means he went to heaven Read Eccl 12:7 - do you believe in universalism - everyone will be saved no matter what? You cant say Luke 23 means he went to heaven without saying Eccl 12:7 teaches everybody will go to heaven when they die no matter what. This is my point - you dont have understanding so dont insult mormons.
@BaruchHashemYahweh actually yes i can. Jesus specifically said He would be going to heaven, and theres no way arround that. you have to cut the Bible into pieces. the Bible clearly said Jesus is the Lamb of God. and in ecclesiastes, that does not teach universalism. before God gives us a Spirit, we're Just dust. and without our Spirit, we return to dust. if you dont cut the Bible into pieces to suit your purposes, you cant escape the fact that there is an eternal hell.
@soccer21928 You avoided the question - IT says Messiah went to Hell in Acts, also it says The spirit returns to God who gave it - Like Messiah said - in your hands i commit my spirit - So if you believe he went to heaven then Eccl 12:7 DOES teach universalism because it doesnt distinguish between saved/unsaved - it just says the spirit returns to God. Jesus is not the Lamb Once again Yahushua is the Lamb. The lamb is hebrew not a greek pagan.
@BaruchHashemYahweh no it doesnt, it says that he would not be abandoned to sheol, or the land of the dead, which is hades in greek. however, if he had wanted to say hell, he would have used the word gehenna, greek for the hebrew gehinomm, which actually means hell, which Jesus used in luke 12:5. so again, you havent done your research. if teh passage in acts read gehenna instead of hades you might have point. but it doesnt
@soccer21928 Not only that, there is no verse in the bible that says Messiah went to heaven - Your Luke 23 verse shows that you dont understand anything about death - the mormons understand more then you.
@BaruchHashemYahweh so Jesus saying "today you will be with me in paradise" doesnt mean he went to heaven? really? please tell me what the greek rendering is. what youre trying to do is argue with facts. its not really disputable. they are the same person, and in hebrews 4:8, you know the name used for Joshua, sun of Nun? its iesous. whether or not you accept it is up to you, but one thing is for sure, you cant change it.
This makes no sense. If christ was doing his own will in the garden and on the cross then the atonement has no effect. He said i am sent to do the will of my father and not his own will. Im not bashing on the trinity but i have asked many people on how the trinity works and every time someone try's to explain it they seem as confused as me. Why would Jesus pray to him self in the garden and ask himself to remove this cup from himself. Was Jesus doing this all for himself?
@ComeUntoChrist as you are a soul ,a spirit and a flesh ...so is God.We are at God's image.The soul is the essence ,the spirit is the feeling and the flesh.
@teriiura You cant say soul spirit body to prove trinity. That proves nothing. Just because you see the number 3 doesnt prove a trinity - God made a 7 day week - is God 7 in one - God uses many numbers - 3, 7, 8, 10, 40, etc. You can say we are soul spirit body that proves Gods a trinity - We are ONE PERSON not THREE IN ONE - you cannot find an analogy that will match the trinity - it doesnt exist - The closest you can find is Cerberus - Three Headed Dog - 3 heads separate One Dog.
@BaruchHashemYahweh your comment just proves that you haven't entirely read the bible.The old testament it is said there is one God and said the Father is GOD.John 1:1 (and more examples)says Jesus is God.Genesis or the new testament says the Spirit of God is God.We see 3 persons and Isaiah says there is one God.God is in 3 persons,just as time is past present future but is time.Universe is matter-time-space but is universe.Water is solid-liquid-steam but one water.....etc
@teriiura Ok - regardless of what you say - Yahushua (not jesus) is not Almighty God - he never was and he never will be. John 1:1 - says the WORD not Yahushua - stop reading into the text. The spirit of God is God - Hmm. Do YOU have a spirit? Is YOUR spirit a separate person - or is it You - your expression, your inner thoughts and feelings and emotions? Obviously YOUR spirit is NOT a separate being from You just as Gods Isn't. YOU see 3 persons - that is what you have been indoctrinated into.
@teriiura You have been indoctrinated into the trinity, much like the other doctrines you believe. You went to church and they told you What the Truth is - therefore everytime you read scripture - You have trinity glasses on - I was trinitarian you dont need to waste time with pointless analogies that fail explaining the false doctrine - i used to believe in that - then i realized the Lies of the Modern Churches. Now lets examine your analogies.
@teriiura Time is supposed to be God - and the three persons are Past, Present, and Future - All separate but All Time (God). So which one is the Past? the Father - so he doesnt exist anymore? Which one is the future? The Son - So he doesnt exist Yet? This analogy fails. Universe (God) is Matter Time Space. Once again - This fails miserably - The Son is Matter but Fully Universe?? The FAther is Time But fully universe? That would be THREE Gods - matter/time are PARTS - which the trinity IS.
@teriiura Water is solid liquid and gas. So the Father is Solid, the Son is Liquid, the Spirit is Gas. They are all separate. But they are NOT ONE - the trinity teaches they are ONE - not three separate parts. Not only that, If the Father is Solid and he is in heaven - the Son is On Earth as Liquid - and He is praying to the Father. Since When is this the SAME GOD? They are completely separated. Now you have Explained GOD as an "essence" NOT a person which is taught clearly - John 17:3.
@BaruchHashemYahweh God is a person as you are.You have a soul a spirit and a flesh.I hope you understood that the water was only an example...if you didn't then i understand why you don't see clearly.
umm... where are u learning this stuff from??? u believe this because this is just a bunch of crap to be honest. u believe this because this crap is what you have read and believed. which version of the bible are u getting ur quotes from? and dont try to tell me that there is no different versions of the bible because if u do, u are a complete IDIOT!
umm... where are u learning this stuff from??? u believe this because this is just a bunch of crap to be honest. u believe this because this crap is what you have read and believed. which version of the bible are u getting ur quotes from? and dont try to tell me that there is no different versions of the bible because if u do, u are a complete IDIOT!
God is a spiritual Being that is Omnipresent. Would an omnipresent being be limited to a finite mortal body (ie Jesus)? NO! An omnipresent being can be present in 1,00,000 distinct persons if He wanted to. However, the Bible only mentions three persons that are God; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So, they can be of the same substance and essence if they are co-eternal (which they are).
@TheLogos1 So GOD is an ESSENCE NOT a Person - he is an ESSENCE in THREE PERSONS who talk to each other and help each other - STRAIGHT POLYTHEISM. I would like you to find me a place in the bible that teaches the trinity - And you CANNOT use Words that ARENT in the scriptures - Like trinity, god the son, god the holy spirit, incarnation, co equal, co eternal, hypostatic union, God took on flesh, God became a man,three persons one God,triune,etc. Any word not found in the scriptures CANT be used.
I am supporting the lds definition of God but i must disagree
According to the scriptures Stephen saw then both side by side Jesus also made other references to sitting beside his father ,,, I do not believe the hebrewism reference holds water here . I think the host is debating his interpretation of what Stephen meant ....
There is a big problem. If the LDS definition of God is right, there would be three different gods because they believe obviously that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three different people. The problem is God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. But Jesus is omnipotent (a trait that if he was not God he would not have). And the Holy Spirit is omnipresent which is again a trait only God can have. The hebraism is completely 100% correct. You have to understand what is meant by "seated
@tkoch25 First of all, you have to understand what the spirit IS before you say its a person. Who knows the thoughts of a man except HIS SPIRIT within him? The same for God - Who know Gods thoughts except HIS SPIRIT - Would you say YOUR spirit is a separate person from you? I dont think so. You said Yahushua (not jesus) is omnipotent - You seem to Forget all power was GIVEN to Him - he did not have this power already. Acts 3:13, 22, 26.
@BaruchHashemYahweh I absolutely understand what the spirit is. There is the spirit inside of us, and then there is the HOLY SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit is the third personage of the Trinity. So I am confused as to what you are trying to get at with your statements. Secondly, Jesus was 100% human, and 100% God. Acts 3:13 talks about the Crucifixion of Jesus, and 22 and 26 speak of Moses and Samuel so agian, I'm confused as to what you're getting at.
@tkoch25 You are completely blind - you have no understanding of the Holy Spirit, nor what spirit and soul teaches in the bible. Show me a verse that says Yahushua (not jesus) has a 100% human side and a 100% god side - Show me one verse. Acts 3:13 - Since you are blind you dont SEE - it reads the GOD of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has glorified his SERVANT YAHUSHUA. This is the GOD OF ISRAEL WHO glorified His servant. Acts 3:22 - Moses and Samuel? You are truly blind - This Prophet is the Messiah.
@BaruchHashemYahweh Show you a verse? There are HUNDREDS! Jesus prays to God, this shows his humanity. Jesus also forgives a man of his sins. Only GOD can forgive a man of all sins. Jesus is omnipotent (a trait only God can have), he knew Judas was going to betray him, that Peter would deny him three times before the rooster crowed. He knew the thoughts of the people. What more proof do you need?
at the right hand" and Shawn explains it to a t! There are 7 "I am" statements that Jesus makes in the NT, and multiple examples of why he must be God. His name is Emmanuel! Which means "God with us!" There is just so many reasons why Jesus is God. And simply the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and in the heart of EVERY believer shows that He must be God as well!
Wait I made an error ..I meant to say I DO NOT support the LDS definition of God .I do stand by the rest of what i said however ..I am not denying that God is Triune i am only stating that I don't think Shawns explanation regarding the hebraism is an adequate response . I do not think he is right in that response ,, regarding it being simply a hebraism. There is no reason to believe that Jesus did not sit beside his father in heaven and that that seating was literal.
If you look at it only in the stoning of Stephen you are right. But you have to look at the whole NT. Especially in John when Jesus says, I and the Father are one. There's so much to take into context that we can't possibly decide off of one story.
@tkoch25 He said I and the Father are one - does this mean he is the Father Now? Trinity teaches the Son is NOT the Father - But this must mean he is God Now? John 17:11, 21-22 - We are One just as the Father and the Son are ONE, and We are IN the Father and IN the Son - Redefine your definition of ONENESS means - because we are ONE with the FATHER and SON as well, we are obviously not God Almighty, neither is the Messiah.
@BaruchHashemYahweh No, the Trinity teaches that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three different persons, one God. They are one in Spirit and in purpose. As the believers here on earth have one spirit and one purpose. You're right, we aren't God the Father, nor God in anyway, but Jesus absolutely is God. He is omnipotent just like God. He is omniscient, a trait only God can hold. So yes Jesus is God.
@tkoch25 First of all Yahushua (not jesus) is NOT omniscient as clearly seen in Mark 13:32 and 11:13. Yahushua is ALSO NOT omnipotent as YOU claim - He said He was GIVEN authority from the Father - clearly showing that he is NOT ALMIGHTY GOD who already HAS the power, rather he was GIVEN the power and Glorified by GOD himself. To quote you" They are one in spirit and purpose" Exactly - That means they are NOT the same - GOD is NOT Yahushua - but they are ONE just like WE ARE ONE - John 17:11, 22
@tkoch25 First of all they are not I AM statements - they are statements period. He said I am the light of the world - you think this somehow means he is the I AM of Exodus? Seriously - You say I AM all the time - Ego eimi in the greek - Are you God when you say I am Hungry? or if someone asks you - Are you so and so? And you say I am, are you God now? I know a mexican dude named Emmanuel - is he God in the flesh? Is GOD a WHO or a WHAT - GOD is an essence to YOU but to me he is a PERSON.
@BaruchHashemYahweh First of all they absolutely are I AM statements. Read them! If they weren't I AM statements then why did the high priests and the pharisees have him put on trial for blasphemy? He makes I AM statements that EVERYONE at that time saw and understood as Jesus declaring he is God. Yes I say I am hungry, but do I say "I am the way the truth and the life?" Or "I am the bread of life sent from heaven?" Absolutely NOT! Secondly him being named Emmanuel was a prophecy fulfilled. Not
@tkoch25 No they werent I AM statements. You say I am every single day - are you claiming Diety? Dont be ridiculous. Why do you think they put Him on Trial? Have you EVER read the accusations against Him by the Enemies? Show me one enemy when he was on trial that said "This Man claimed to be GOD" Show me the verse. Saying I am the way truth and life is NOT claiming to be GOD - that is a LIE of Satan.
@BaruchHashemYahweh If you're really going to argue that Jesus didn't claim to be God read what they put on the cross. "King of the Jews." If you want Jesus' claim Matthew 26:64. Jesus' 7 I AM statements in the book of John are absolutely claims of his Divinity! When I say I am, what am I talking about? I am hungry, I am bored, I am tired. Jesus said that you cannot get into heaven except through him! Would I ever say that? No! Jesus claimed divinity through words and actions!
@tkoch25 Let me ask you a question - what is the name of GOD? YHWH, Yahushua, OR Emmanuel? God only has 1 name, not three names - he gave his name to the Jews - So which is it? Secondly, Emmanuel means God is with us - Do you not know that God was in the Messiah reconciling the world to himself? What about Azarel - is Azarel GOD too? Azarel means God has helped. What about Ba'al the pagan god - Translated Lord? Do you worship the Lord? Luke 7:16 - READ THIS - SIMPLE TEACHINGS.
@BaruchHashemYahweh God is given MANY names throughout scripture. I don't have enough room for all the names. He is known as King of Kings, Righteous Judge, etc. The meaning of the name isn't necessarily the important thing. Like I said, when they named him Emmanuel it was a fulfillment of a prophesy, I believe from Isaiah.
@tkoch25 That prophecy from Isaiah is disputed - it never was applied to the Messiah in the NT either - regardless, I know a mexican dude names Emmanuel - is he GOD too? The name emmanuel doesnt mean hes God - God doesnt have MANY names - he has MANY TITLES - theres a difference - he has ONE NAME because he is ONE PERSON - YHWH - the messiah has a different name because he is not the same person as GOD. Titles dont prove anything.
@singledad1234 The trinity teaches the Father is NOT the Son - so why are you calling the Son Yahushua (not jesus) the FATHER - he is NOT the FATHER this is what the trinity teaches - make up your mind what you believe - men or God. I would also like you to find where this verse is fulfilled by the Messiah in the NT - Show me where.
Isaiah 44:24, KJV: "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." How can one God in three PERSONS ever be "alone" and "by myself"? Truly, trinitarians are morons!!!!!
@denn034--There one because they all share the same nature you idiot, God the father, the son, and the spirit are all the one true God, each member of the trinity are is the one God, and because all three persons of the God head are the one God, they all share the same nature and hence making them one, but they exist in persons, not three beings, or three Gods, it's persons, simply put all three members of the trinity make one God.
Dividing the substance isn't possible with the trinity of one God in three persons, so that fact makes it impossible for one person to detach from the other two that would be needed to be alone or by myself. Truly, the trinity contradicts Isaiah 44:24!!!!!
They're all the creator! Well, it would seem that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit really are just modes of activity of the one absolutely monotheistic God as the modalists have always claimed! If the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all creator, then, those must be modes of the one God before such can ever be alone or by myself. In the end, the classical trinitarian creeds rule out dividing the substance and only modalism can be squared with all three being creator and still alone and by myself.
So, is my understanding correct that you are a modalist? If so, then did Jesus talk to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane? Was Jesus performing ventriloquism at His baptism? Was Jesus going to change costumes when He said He would send ANOTHER helper? They are separate persons, but are one God. Take away any one of them, and God no longer exists. Unity in diversity. It's all around us. While the functions of each of the Godhead may differ, they have the same ontological nature.
@denn034 Thats not right either - if the Father and Son are just MODES of God - then they wouldnt exist at the same time - because when God is the Son, he would not be in the Father Mode - But the Son PRAYS to the FATHER - John 17:3 - Even calling the Father the ONLY TRUE GOD - Tell me, what does ONLY mean?
@demondagger19 Before you call people idiots you should listen to your own religious dogma - You believe that GOD is a substance?? GOD is not a person he is a Substance SHARED between THREE PEOPLE? How much more pagan can you get - The Son is not omniscient as God is supposed to be - he doesnt know the day or the hour (if you say its his human side that doesnt know, then he is a Deciever or YOU are, only a Deceiver would say he didnt know when his "other side" did.) He's NOT omnipresent Jo 11:15
@BaruchHashemYahweh "You believe that GOD is a substance?? GOD is not a person he is a Substance SHARED between THREE PEOPLE?"
Uh, I don't remember ever saying that God was a "Substance" first off, and secondly, so you even know what the word "Substance" means in relations to the doctrine of the trinity? Because it's quiet clear that you don't, so I'm going to explain it in a way that hopefully you'll be able to understand.
@demondagger19 You said quote "They all share the same nature" Now the Trinity teaches Father and Son and Spirit are HOMOOUSIS - greek for SAME SUBSTANCE - You dont know your own doctrine? Nicene Creed = Yahushua (not jesus) [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousion)with the Father. Nature is behavior, character, or essence of a person. Can be equal to substance easily.
@BaruchHashemYahweh ""They all share the same nature" Now the Trinity teaches Father and Son and Spirit are HOMOOUSIS - greek for SAME SUBSTANCE - You dont know your own doctrine?"
You seriously need to learn how to read more carefully, I never said they were different in nature in anyway smart guy, what part of that don't you understand?
@demondagger19 You said, "I dont remember saying God was a substance" Which you didnt, you said "Nature" The problem is not with me reading carefully, the problem is with you teaching with WORDS not found in the scriptures - and then you expect me to know this? I study the bible, not pagan words - if you use biblical words we could sese eye to eye - but no words are found in the scriptures to teach a trinity, so what are we going to do then? Turn to Greek Philosophy? No thanks.
@BaruchHashemYahweh It's exactly what I've meant all along, all the members of the God head are all equally holy, divine etc, and hence sharing or having the same qualities as one another, so there are no differences wherein that is concerned. You've basically said exactly what I already stated before.
@demondagger19 NOT members, remember, PERSONS. Now truly, three members that make up One GOD - straight polytheism. There are No differences - yet that is why One member the Son, calls the other member, the Father God? The son serves and worships the Father? You call this equal? EVEN AFTER his resurrection he calls the Father MY GOD - John 20:17, EVEN IN HEAVEN he calls the Father MY GOD - Rev 3:2, 12. Show me where the Lamb in Rev is called God Almighty. Its nowhere to be found.
@demondagger19 Regardless, the trinity teaches they are the same Substance - which you dont even know what or why you are teaching. For GOD to be three persons, that means they all share the same substance as taught - which means GOD is NOT a Person ( he is three) so GOD has to be a substance SHARED between THREE PERSONS - Which is contradictory of scriptures and is illogical - all the words you use - nature, substance, trinity, etc. is ALL greek philosophical words from pagans.
@BaruchHashemYahweh "all the words you use - nature, substance, trinity, etc. is ALL greek philosophical words from pagans."
Uh, no there not, they are descriptions to sum up what exactly the doctrine of the trinity teaches, if that's the case, then by your logic then, I can say that the word "Trinity" isn't in the bible, and therefore isn't biblical, but, does that make it so? Obviously not if the concept of it is taught throughout scripture which it is.
@demondagger19 Yes they are - In reading about Neo Platonism greek philosophy - here are some words you find in the teachings - being, finite, infinite, substance, essence, hypostasis, nature, etc. ALL the same words used for the trinity. Just listen to a quote here about the trinity = God is a Triune God, existing as three persons but as one being. Saying that God exists as three persons but is one God means that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit exactly duplicate the nature or being of God
@BaruchHashemYahweh First off, the word "Substance" is used in relations to Gods very own divine nature, that which makes God what he is (being completly divine and holy within and of himself), but not in relations to some form of protoplasmic goop or anything of the sort, that's something i just wanted to make very clear. Secondly, you said "Three People" I never nowhere mentioned three people, but rather, (Persons), which is reference to describing (Who) someone is, there's a difference.
@demondagger19 You say "Substance is in relation to Gods very own divine nature" God as in Three persons or God as in the Fathers divine nature? You cant just talk about God and not say Which god you are referring to. which one of the three gods (persons). And do not be ridiculous please - Three People IS Three persons - Basic English - One person, one person, one person = three people. It sounds too much like polytheism which is the true NATURE of the trinity - it is CO EQUAL with Polytheism.
@BaruchHashemYahweh Look, I'm trying really hard not to call you an idiot right now, but your tempting me to do so, the word (Persons) is used to describe the identity of the God head itself, which is in reference to (God The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), not three seperate gods which the doctrine of the trinity, does not teach, we do not believe in three different seperate gods, is there any part of that you don't understand?
@demondagger19 Of course - name calling shows a lack of knowledge - You shouldnt have called people idiots to begin with - then you yourself have NO knowledge, you cant even teach the trinity correctly without stumbling over your own words (which arent found in scripture) I said gods with persons in parenthesis - which is simply polytheism - you can lip service all you want "monotheism", but at the end of the day its still polytheism. If one person is separate from another - is that 1 or 2?
@demondagger19 You assume just because the trinity doctrine says they are One not three gods, really makes it TRUE? TRUTH is not defined by a pagan teaching - TRUTH is defined by scripture - Where are the Words used to describe the trinity, even the word trinity itself is not found in scripture. IF i teach God is an angelic being, does that make it true - in the same way - trinity says It is ONE GOD - that doesnt mean its TRUE - you need to wake up from your slumber - live in the daytime.
@BaruchHashemYahweh (Where are the Words used to describe the trinity, even the word trinity itself is not found in scripture.)
Nether is the word (incarnation) ether, but that doesn't make it un-biblical ether, again, the word trinity is only used as a description to describe the trinitarian description described throughout passages that do in fact teach the concept itself, like the passages I just posted earlier.
Um, first off all, there's nothing "Pagan" about the teaching of the trinity, there's plenty of scriptural support for the teaching of the trinity, both in the OT, and the NT, like for example Gen 1:26, 3:22, 11:7. The real issue here is that you won't except the evidences that do in fact point to the teachings of the trinity, and that's your problem.
@demondagger19 Tell me then what ISNT pagan about it? Gods becoming flesh? Acts 14:11 - PAGAN. The words trinity, triune, co equal co eternal, same substance, same nature, fully man, fully god, divine essence, hypostatic union, etc. ALL PAGAN WORDS - NOT found anywhere in the scriptures. The very Doctrine of the Trinity itself? 1John 5:7 - a fabricated verse Added to the scriptures by PAGAN catholics who eat eat and drink the blood of messiah and worship mary and her statues. Everything about it
Wow, that's a pretty idiotic statement to make, you used the word (gods) which was your first mistake, uh, again, christianity does not teach polytheism, we again, are not polytheistic, your the one who keeps implying it when we do not in any way teach that at all, your basically arguing against something that we do not believe in, why do you keep doing that.?
@demondagger19 Not really - Teaching what the pagans believed in Acts 14:11 is idiotic. We are not polytheistic - OK - the mormons keep saying We believe in the God of the bible - SAY it ALL you want - just like everyone else - It WONT Evolve INTO truth overtime - that theory is just as false. Jehovahs witness Keep saying We are the Only Ones who will be saved - OK, STILL FALSE - Muslims keep saying ALLAH is the only God - OK STILL FALSE - What makes you think you are any different?
@BaruchHashemYahweh This has nothing to do with anyone else, I would prefer to stay on topic, you said the word "Trinity" isn't found in scripture, and on that note, that is true, but having said that, let's go with your logic by me asking you this question, is the word, again, (Incarnation) found in scripture yes or no?
@demondagger19 The word incarnation is not found in scripture. You can find a verse and say this is in reference to the incarnation - the whole point is - the words used to teach trinity are ALL pagan - meaning NOT FROM GOD - if they were they would be in the scriptures. Not only that - all pagan religions believe in incarnation - guess what religion doesnt believe in it at all - JUDAISM - thats right the JEWISH people, just like the JEWISH Messiah you claim to follow and JEWISH TANACH.
@BaruchHashemYahweh "The word incarnation is not found in scripture. You can find a verse and say this is in reference to the incarnation - the whole point is - the words used to teach trinity are ALL pagan"
Your right, it's not in there, but the description of it is, is it not?, so what is John 1:14 described as, is it or is it not in relations to the incarnation, yes or no?
@BaruchHashemYahweh But if you mean (God coming in the flesh) or (God becoming a man), these are only (descriptions) which refers to the (Incarnation) of Christ when he became a human being to live a human life among humanity, that's it, if you've also noticed, the word (Incarnation) is nowhere found in scripture ether, but however, the description of it is displayed within scripture itself (see John 1:14-1 John 1:1-3). So, does that make it un-biblical or in this case "Pagan?, no it does not.
@demondagger19 Yes that makes it pagan - is the Word incarnation something GOD CHOSE to put in the scriptures? NO - therefore it is PAGAN, why are you using it? You say God became a man - which is blasphemy - but nonetheless this is a logical fallacy because GOD by definition is 3 persons - but the Father and Spirit are NOT flesh - therefore GOD did not become flesh, only PART of GOD - the son part. Regardless, John 1:14 says the WORD not Yahushua. Is the words God speaks a person? NO.
@BaruchHashemYahweh "but the Father and Spirit are NOT flesh - therefore GOD did not become flesh, only PART of GOD - the son part. Regardless, John 1:14 says the WORD not Yahushua. Is the words God speaks a person? NO."
What does it mean in (John 1:14) when it says "And the word became flesh", tell me literally what it means to you? Is that not the incarnation, yes or no?
@demondagger19 John 1:14 the word (logos) became flesh. John 2:22 - many believed the word (logos) Yahushua had spoken. John 17:17 - sanctify them for your word (logos) is truth. You are in ERROR - the LOGOS is spoken word, communication, etc. When the SPOKEN WORD of GOD became Flesh - think about it - what did God speak? About the messiah being born - then the Word that GOD spoke to His prophets BECAME FLESH (figuratively) - meaning Yahushua Fulfilled the prophetic WORD of GOD about the Messiah
@BaruchHashemYahweh "You are in ERROR - the LOGOS is spoken word, communication, etc."
How in the world can a word or some sort of abstract communication be tangible enough for it to be described as it "dwelling among us" according to John 1:14 smart guy? John is obviously speaking about a person, not an abstract or some sort of metaphor, now answer the question, does the phrase "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." teach the incarnation of Jesus, yes or no?
@demondagger19 Because the word BECAME FLESH - what do you mean how can communication dwell among us - it says the word - meaning the spoken prophecies about the coming messiah - became flesh - meaning fulfilled in Yahushua the Messiah - do you not Believe he is the Prophecies Fulfilled? You cannot be blind as a bat on this issue - it is simple - you need to turn away from your error - you act like you are fighting the enemy - but you are fighting God.
@BaruchHashemYahweh "what do you mean how can communication dwell among us - it says the word - meaning the spoken prophecies about the coming messiah - became flesh"
That's completly nonsensical, because the context of the passage is not prophetic in nature, it's not prophetical, rather, it is a description of who, or what this particular Word is, it doesn't have anything to do with prophecy at all.
@demondagger19 OK just completely forget what the Word of GOd means all throughout the bible EXCEPT for John 1 and make it a person - then go back to the regular meaning of the WORD OF GOD through the ENTIRE TANACH and NT THOUSANDS OF TIMES. This passage is talking about Genesis in case you didnt notice - i didnt say it was "prophetical" i said the Word of God is the prophecies about the messiah - that is what was fulfilled, hence the term "became flesh" when messiah was Born - it is simple.
Oh Shawn my belief that they are seperate beings comes from reading the bible not from growing up LDS. I don't read in the bible that God was some great spirit mass that seperated itself into 3 personas. And if that was the case then are they still seperate now since we know Christ returned to Heaven in his body? Or does God (3 in 1) now have a body and that is what Stephen saw as you described it? The docrine of the trinity came from the Catholics not the bible.
peaceliberty4all 5 months ago
mormon kicked you ass there is no trinity
TheRivetthead 5 months ago
@USAConservative2012 Not once have i heard any LDS leader sit there and talk about other religions.. Christians, its funny how u fight with LDS members when Christians cant even agree in one Religion,do you even know how many christian religions there are out there? i bet you cant even count them. The Bible you think we dont believe in.YOUR BIBLE.do you know how it was created? do you know who put it together? The Catholics. Here you are arguing.....when your bible was organized by them.
Josio850 7 months ago
@USAConservative2012 Its funny how you tell me what i believe, and how i am. i know the "facts" and i know everything you people mock us for, i know. i know what Joseph smith said. ive been in the church almost my entire life, not once have ANYONE or ANY CHURCH LEADER has told me what to believe in fact i dont think ive met one. The LDS church does not tell u what to believe, they share with you what they believe, if u have questions about it then pray.
Josio850 7 months ago
@USAConservative2012 from what u say you must be christian, and you talk about facts. its is facts that have proven god, the bible all religions wrong, and u talk about facts? Listen to your self and have some respect for other people's believes, do you really think Jesus him self would act the way the guy on this video does? One thing i have always learned in the LDS church is Respect for other religions and people. thats something christians havent been able to do.
Josio850 7 months ago
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
In order for something to return it had to have already been there.
majinish 9 months ago
See how the trinity doesn't work? John 17:1-3. Jesus Christ asked that people would know that the Father is the only true God. The trinity doesn't come from the Bible. Also, in John 20 Jesus states "My God my God".
majinish 9 months ago
I love hearing this guy, what show is he on?
Tank94Mage 10 months ago
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true. The only way to know is to pray and ask God yourself. I come from a family that used to be predominately Catholic and Protestant. The spirit of the Lord is present in lds churches, when missionaries teach, when you read the Book of Mormon(Another Testament of Jesus Christ), when Prophets & Apostles of the church speak, and at all of the Holy sites in Jerusalem.
*Go to God and ask. It's the only way to truly know. He'll never lie...
liberty4all4life 11 months ago
@liberty4all4life Question how do the LDS know to ask God first? They read the bible I do believe.
Tank94Mage 10 months ago
@Tank94Mage Yep. James 1:5 caused Joseph Smith to pray. People claim Joseph Smith taught against Christ. If that were so why was he so diligently seeking to know which church was true? That's another thing. When he prayed he thought at least one of the already-existing churches was true. It never even occurred to him that none were.
majinish 9 months ago
@majinish Yep. My main point I am trying to get across is that Mormons can only know to ask God first if they find out to ask him first which isnt asking God first.
Tank94Mage 9 months ago
25 or so years ago i was talking to a friend of mine and he said something that stuck with me to this day. what he said was you can tell a baby that big foot was his grand father and the baby would grow to believe this his whole life. I dont remember what the topic of our discussion was but Im sure it wasnt religious .
sheetmetalmaster 1 year ago
poor Mark is brain washed
frnzkuester 1 year ago
All these ignorant people just running their mouths, the major dangerous is the lack of knowledge of the things of eternity, and refused to repent of their weakedness. Theres no other Gospel, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints was fortold before the foundation of heavens and earths(universe). the only one and true Gospel, for as long as our Heavenly parents witness from the heavens, our Lord Jesus Christ and especially God the Holy Ghost.
CWMaua12 1 year ago
But did those changes in the Book of Mormon change the doctrine? Did it change its message? Did it change the truth it contains? No it does not change it at all.
heybillbill 1 year ago
The 1st edition of BOM , riddled with grammatical errors. This questions the text written by man or translated divinely. More significant errors in early editions of the BOM such as changing the name of King Benjamin to King Mosiah,King Benjamin was already dead at this point, or changing that Mary was the 'mother of God to the son of God'.
The 3,913 changes to the 1st edition of Book of Mormon. The book Smith called 'the most correct book on earth. Smith a con!
onstageagain 1 year ago
Look at John 17:21-22. Christ was praying to God and asking God to make his apostles one even as He and God are one. Were Peter James and John 1 person? Im pretty sure they werent.... He was asking God to make them one in UNITY. God The Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are seperate.
heybillbill 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1 Cor: 3 But I would have you know,that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God......
wildricky40 1 year ago
And, also, someone erase my previous comments about Shawns ignorance&retardation; ha, truth hurts.
CWMaua12 1 year ago
Shawn, you can't answer the question; you look&sound so retard,dum&stupid; you're very ignorant; from genesis - revelation, there's no such thing as a trinity; that's true, so, if their one, who did Jesus Christ pray to through out His ministry? you're a biggest joke i've ever known in my entire life; i've never come across, the most retarded person like you; get a life;
CWMaua12 1 year ago
Nimrods debating the exact nature of their imaginary friend.
willbond 1 year ago
Shawn, everything you've said to Mark, is so retarded; the way you explained yourself, you need to be in a mental instute; your absolutely mentally retarded; you are a curse, your totally lost:
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 200 AD Tertullian "Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, one essence, not one Person, as it is said, 'I and my Father are One' [John 10:30], in respect of unity of Being not singularity of number" (Against Praxeas, 25)
waterplo12 1 year ago
Shawn, the way you explain yourself, you look absolutely dum, retard, stupid&foolish; your respond to Mark's question, is so retarded, Mark's question is, if God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one, so who did Jesus prayed to? and then your answer Shawn is, Jesus was praying to His Father; what kind of answer is that, you are a biggest retard joke i have ever know, you should be ashame of yourself;
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 Jesus did pray to the father. They are three distinct persons (not seperate mind you) but the make up the one being of God. What I see from you above is a bunch of ad hominem and misunderstanding of Shawn's view point.
waterplo12 1 year ago
Was not Shawn an excommunicated Mormon? & then he knows. When it comes to the issue of TRINITY vs, THE GODHEAD, Shawn will side with the Mormons after all, he knows the difference...he just doesn't want to be known as a TRINITARIAN.
The Prophet Joseph Smith's First Vision of TWO PERSONAGES that appeared to him...one calling him by name & point to the other saying: "This my beloved Son, Hear Him" Go figure!
leSavaii 1 year ago
@leSavaii I appreciate you letting these people know about the truth and the truth only; it's really sad that, these people are totally lost; we still have to keep helping them, rather they like it or not, we have to correct them, and educate them of the things of eternity; the hard thing is, if they don't humble themselves, they will never, ever, get the message; through out the scriptures, there's no such thing as a trinity; they should always ask this question; who did Jesus always pray too?
CWMaua12 1 year ago
jesus is god GOD IN THE FLESH
people are so fucking stupid
JESUS IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
KING OF THE UNIVERSE
singledad1234 1 year ago
@singledad1234 im glad you believe Jesus is Lord, as i do. but if youre going to claim to be His desciple, i think you should consider cleaning up your language. James 3:9-10"With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be."
soccer21928 1 year ago
@singledad1234 What a hypocrite you are. And you think you can escape judgment - You who pass judgment on others for sin and practice unrighteousness yourself - What a hypocrite.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
Typical Lost Mormon caller who doesn't do research on Christianity or Joe Smith.
This con man's religion was invented less than 200 years ago,
(the flushed toilet has been around longer)
Then they argue that Christian's have got it all wrong, and that Mormons are the true Christians,.....? Huh ?
Tell me that thing about Indians and red skin again,...that one is a Hoot !
Was Apostle Parley Pratt at the Last supper ,because I don't remember reading about him either ?
Got two 10's for a 5 ?
charger2538 1 year ago
You're making a biggest fool out of yourself Shawn, you can't answer Mark's question, you're completely ignorant, retard&foolish; what a shame. look, from Genesis to Revelation there's no such thing as a trinity; you need a lots of help, and repentance to do; don't get offended; pray.
CWMaua12 1 year ago
religious retards
FUwogs 1 year ago
@FUwogs You know, talking to you and Shawn, youre ignorance&retardation, i can help educate you both; look! from Genesis to Revelation, there's no such thing as a trinity; both of you are absolutely blinded about the things of eternity; don't get offended;
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 dip shit religiousTard, there is NO god!!!!
FUwogs 1 year ago
this guy is the mannn!! opened my eyes to the lds church
treebagz 1 year ago
@treebagz Opened your eyes only to put a different color blind fold On you.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh dont need a blind fold mate already strong in my religion but new perspective on the LDS church
treebagz 1 year ago
Why would God get a women pregnant with himself, then let himself be tortured and killed? The Trinity seems bizarre to me.
JohnRhysMusician 1 year ago
@JohnRhysMusician So God can die for our sins as a substitute for us since we all are sinners and the punishment of sin is death?
waterplo12 1 year ago
so...think we can agree shawn owned this guy. its sad because mormons really have no clue what the bible says, or they're just in denial.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 I'm sure you dont know just as much as they dont know.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh i dont know what?
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 You said Mormons really have no clue what the bible says - And i replied, I am sure you dont know as much as you say THEY dont know about the bible.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh i dont know why you say that, but we're all entitled to our opinions
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 You dont know why? Let me show you - what is the name of the Lamb of God? Were you going to say Jesus? Now Read Heb 4:8 and 4:14. Tell me what the difference is between jesus and joshua. Also, tell me when the Messiah died, where did he go? Heaven or Hell? We will see how much you know.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh the difference is, Joshua lived around 14 centuries because Christ came. i dont see your point with the verses from Hebrews, their talking about 2 different people. Jesus died, then He went to heaven. and yes, the Lamb of God is Jesus. John 1:29-"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 You dont see my point because you dont understand - just like the mormons you spoke against. Maybe you should learn more before you bash mormons - we are all trying to learn my friend - mormons arent the ONLY ones in error. Joshua means YHWH saves or YHWH is salvation. This is the correct english translation which i showed you in Heb 4:8 and 4:14 - they put Joshua in verse 8 and jesus in verse 14 - They are the SAME. jesus is an incorrect transliteration of the messiahs name.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh and like i proved in my last post, John said Jesus is the Lamb of God. i noticed you didnt even address that verse. Jesus is the greek rendering of the Hebrew name Yeshua. hebrews 4:8 and 4:14 are talking about to totally different people. Joshua is the english rendering of the Hebrew, Jesus is the english rendering of the greek. that doesnt mean one of them is wrong, and it definitely doesnt mean Jesus isnt the Lamb of God.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 jesus is not the rendering of his name - i have already shown you joshua is the english rendering of his name NOT jesus - that is a transliteration not translation - JEE ZUS does not match Yahushua - JAH SHUA matches. Even Yeshua (Yay Shua) does not match JEE ZUS. Yes jesus IS WRONG Joshua is the correct english translation - you seem to forget the Messiah was HEBREW not GREEK - you say neither are wrong YET you use the GREEK FALSE NAME for your HEBREW MESSIAH.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh you are incredible. yes Jesus was hebrew. the Old testament was written in Hebrew. but the new testament was written in greek! and the greek rendering of Yeshua is Iesous, and Iesous in english is Jesus. go do your research. you think because they sound differently its a mistranslation when hebrew, ancient greek, and english are all totally unrelated languages. thats not how it works. look up the name Iesous, and tell me what you find.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 Jesus was greek not hebrew. Yahushua was hebrew as you stated in this comment. The NT was written in greek and hebrew as well - i know what the greek rendering is - like i said before it is a TRANSLITERATION not a TRANSLATION - look up the difference. The reason they sound different is because it is a different name. Like i said Yahushua hebrew Joshua english sound the same. We have many greek words we use - Anthropology - anthropos is man in greek Same as Greek in English.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@soccer21928 No one ever said because they sound different its a mistranslation - but it is painfully obvious that a translated name is close to the original - JEE ZUS is a transliterated greek name of Yahushua. Even our modern names sound the same in other languages because they are properly translated (not transliterated) Mark in spanish Marcos. David in hebrew Daw-veed in Greek Da-beed. Same name. Notice the difference once again between Translation and transliteration. jesus is false.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh are you saying that every scriptural passage that makes mention of the after life must mention both heaven and hell? especially since ecclisiasted is just describing the nature of human existance? your logic is baffling. the Bible definitely speaks of heaven and hell, and the only way to believe in universalism is to ignore the facts. like you do when John identifies Jesus "(and the greek manuscpits say Jesus) as the Lamb of God.or prove that Jesus is not the Lamb of God.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 U can't answer BaruchHashemYahweh's question? U know what, this pentacostal christian movement, is the most biggest joke i've eva come across; truth hurts? U r as retarded like Shawn; Shawn don't know what to say; all the answers u give BaruchHashemYahweh is wrong(false); what an insult. U answer me asap;
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 do you think youre so important that i have to answer asap? and if your going to insult shawn's intelligence, it doesnt help when you mispell, of all words, "retarded" and "dumb". it really looks bad. and im not even pentacostal, so i dont know what point youre making. and youve Got the concept of the Trinity wrong. they are one God, but not one PERSON. they are 3 Persons, so Chrsit prayed to His Father who was STILL IN HEAVEN.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 Look, mr. ignorant u&Shawn r in the same company of ignorance,retardation&rebellious spirits; do u call that intelligence? Shawn just look really stupid&retard, he can't answer the questions, u r one of them kind of people; what shame; why don't u ask yourself this question&meditate aabout it; who, did Jesus Christ prayed to, through out His Ministry? was He Praying to Himself?, wow, all u r nothing, u &Shawn& the rest of your kind of people r not all there;(retard)
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 its one thing to believe in the Trinity. but you dont even know what the doctrine teaches. there is one God. you still with me? in the one being of God, there are 3 persons. The Father, Son, and Spirit are NOT the same person. they refer to each other in the 2nd person. The Son became a man. the Father and Spirit DID NOT. when Jesus was on earth the Father was still in heaven, he never left. you just dont understand the basic difference between Unitarianism and Trinitarianism.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 Your ignorance will remain with in u, &saddly, the scriptures is so true about people like u, quote, in my own words, it better to fight w/a beast then ignorant&retarded people; well, good luck&good try; one more thing, this will be my last time to talk to u; but, ask your self this question always&meditate about it, who was Jesus Christ praying to, if God the Father,Son&the Holy Ghost are one? U really, really, need to pray mightly about these sacred things b4 God;
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 thats the same question youve been asking. Jesus and the Father are not one person. why cant you understand that? God the Son is NOT God the Father! He is NOT! They are different persons, so its not Jesus talking to Himself, Jesus was talking to another person. you have probably asked the same exact question 4 times now.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 U need to get over it, U,Shawn&those that hate(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints,) which is the only true church is a waste of time; no unholy hands can destroy the church:
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 So by accurately describing the doctrine of the Trinity, necause i dont misrepresent it like you, im the one who needs to get over it? this is pretty sad denial on your part. you can keep repeating yourself, but it wont change the fact that youre wrong.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 Do u know why i kept repeating myself trying to educate u on the subject of the trinity, because your retarded, ignorant, thick head will never ever get it, its like i'm talking to a mentally retarded person, and i believe u will never get it until u humble yourself with a contrite spirit and God will lead u by the hand and answer your prayers; all u do is looking for faults in the Church the only true Church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. there's no other Gospel.
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 yes but you keep repeating error. if your gospel says its ok to call people ignorant and retarded, then it can hardly be the true Church of Christ. of course it isnt, you mormons are polytheists, you believe in many gods, thats not the gospel of Christ. we Christians believe in only one God. a heretic like yourself, who can not even understand the Trinity wont change this. i heard what you said, but youre WRONG. how many times did you ask who Jesus was praying to? it poses no problem.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 Theres no other Gospel, The Church is True(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints). i've explained myself very clearly, a while back, we r da true decendants of da Native Americans, languages,cultures&traditions, from Israel,Arab,Asian,India,Native American&Islanders, very very similar, da old testaments talking bout da scattering of Israel almost half of da globe, from Israel, to Asia, India,America,&da Islands of da Pacific.
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 oh really? the old testament mentions israelites in america and the pacific islands? show me where that is. in reality, thats a myth that joe smith came up with, and you actually believe it. and one more time, the Doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one BEING who exists in 3 PERSONS. so when Jesus prayed to the Father, it was one PERSON taking to another PERSON, NOT one God talking to another God.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 continue on, also, ur so spiritually blinded of the subject of the trinity. i cant keep on educating u on this subject. if u dont understand it then nothing i can do. either ur spiritually blinded or ur mentally retarded. i felt like im talking to a very rebellious,hatred,spiritually blinded and mentally retarded person. well, truth wont go thru ur thick head anyway.
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 you cant call me ignorant when you dont understand the basic definition of the Trinity, as it had been believed long before your heretical, pseudo-christian cult came along. you have no facts or reasoning, you just repeat assertions you cant back up. which is what mormonism is all about. feelings not facts, and its very sad to see.
soccer21928 1 year ago
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@soccer21928 U need to get over it, U,Shawn&those that hate(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints,) which is the only true church is a waste of time; no unholy hands can destroy the church: good try;
CWMaua12 1 year ago
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@BaruchHashemYahweh and like i proved in my last post, John said Jesus is the Lamb of God. i noticed you didnt even address that verse. Jesus is the greek rendering of the Hebrew name Yeshua. hebrews 4:8 and 4:14 are talking about to totally different people. Joshua is the english rendering of the Hebrew, Jesus is the english rendering of the greek. that doesnt mean one of them is wrong, and it definitely doesnt mean Jesus isnt the Lamb of God.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 You said Yahushua died and went to heaven? What verse does it teach that? READ Acts 2:27, 31 - It says Yahushua's soul was in HELL not HEAVEN. So which is it? Heaven or Hell? The lamb of God isnt jesus - the lamb of God is Yahushua.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh wow. first, acts 2 is taken from psalm 2:7, a messianic prophecy stating that Jesus would not be abandoned to the land of the dead. by Jesus own words (Luke 23:43) He went to heaven after he died. and it seems you do not know that Jesus is the greek rendering of the term Yeshua. Yeshua was Jesus' Hebrew name. He and the Joshua of the Old Testament had the SAME NAME, but they were not the SAME PERSON.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 I know what its taken from. So which is it then if you have understanding, tell me - did he go to HELL as in psalm 2 or Heaven as in Luke 23:43-46? If you say Luke 23 means he went to heaven Read Eccl 12:7 - do you believe in universalism - everyone will be saved no matter what? You cant say Luke 23 means he went to heaven without saying Eccl 12:7 teaches everybody will go to heaven when they die no matter what. This is my point - you dont have understanding so dont insult mormons.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh actually yes i can. Jesus specifically said He would be going to heaven, and theres no way arround that. you have to cut the Bible into pieces. the Bible clearly said Jesus is the Lamb of God. and in ecclesiastes, that does not teach universalism. before God gives us a Spirit, we're Just dust. and without our Spirit, we return to dust. if you dont cut the Bible into pieces to suit your purposes, you cant escape the fact that there is an eternal hell.
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 You avoided the question - IT says Messiah went to Hell in Acts, also it says The spirit returns to God who gave it - Like Messiah said - in your hands i commit my spirit - So if you believe he went to heaven then Eccl 12:7 DOES teach universalism because it doesnt distinguish between saved/unsaved - it just says the spirit returns to God. Jesus is not the Lamb Once again Yahushua is the Lamb. The lamb is hebrew not a greek pagan.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh no it doesnt, it says that he would not be abandoned to sheol, or the land of the dead, which is hades in greek. however, if he had wanted to say hell, he would have used the word gehenna, greek for the hebrew gehinomm, which actually means hell, which Jesus used in luke 12:5. so again, you havent done your research. if teh passage in acts read gehenna instead of hades you might have point. but it doesnt
soccer21928 1 year ago
@soccer21928 Not only that, there is no verse in the bible that says Messiah went to heaven - Your Luke 23 verse shows that you dont understand anything about death - the mormons understand more then you.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh so Jesus saying "today you will be with me in paradise" doesnt mean he went to heaven? really? please tell me what the greek rendering is. what youre trying to do is argue with facts. its not really disputable. they are the same person, and in hebrews 4:8, you know the name used for Joshua, sun of Nun? its iesous. whether or not you accept it is up to you, but one thing is for sure, you cant change it.
soccer21928 1 year ago
This makes no sense. If christ was doing his own will in the garden and on the cross then the atonement has no effect. He said i am sent to do the will of my father and not his own will. Im not bashing on the trinity but i have asked many people on how the trinity works and every time someone try's to explain it they seem as confused as me. Why would Jesus pray to him self in the garden and ask himself to remove this cup from himself. Was Jesus doing this all for himself?
ComeUntoChrist 1 year ago
@ComeUntoChrist as you are a soul ,a spirit and a flesh ...so is God.We are at God's image.The soul is the essence ,the spirit is the feeling and the flesh.
There are three in one.
teriiura 1 year ago
@teriiura You cant say soul spirit body to prove trinity. That proves nothing. Just because you see the number 3 doesnt prove a trinity - God made a 7 day week - is God 7 in one - God uses many numbers - 3, 7, 8, 10, 40, etc. You can say we are soul spirit body that proves Gods a trinity - We are ONE PERSON not THREE IN ONE - you cannot find an analogy that will match the trinity - it doesnt exist - The closest you can find is Cerberus - Three Headed Dog - 3 heads separate One Dog.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh your comment just proves that you haven't entirely read the bible.The old testament it is said there is one God and said the Father is GOD.John 1:1 (and more examples)says Jesus is God.Genesis or the new testament says the Spirit of God is God.We see 3 persons and Isaiah says there is one God.God is in 3 persons,just as time is past present future but is time.Universe is matter-time-space but is universe.Water is solid-liquid-steam but one water.....etc
teriiura 1 year ago
@teriiura Ok - regardless of what you say - Yahushua (not jesus) is not Almighty God - he never was and he never will be. John 1:1 - says the WORD not Yahushua - stop reading into the text. The spirit of God is God - Hmm. Do YOU have a spirit? Is YOUR spirit a separate person - or is it You - your expression, your inner thoughts and feelings and emotions? Obviously YOUR spirit is NOT a separate being from You just as Gods Isn't. YOU see 3 persons - that is what you have been indoctrinated into.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@teriiura You have been indoctrinated into the trinity, much like the other doctrines you believe. You went to church and they told you What the Truth is - therefore everytime you read scripture - You have trinity glasses on - I was trinitarian you dont need to waste time with pointless analogies that fail explaining the false doctrine - i used to believe in that - then i realized the Lies of the Modern Churches. Now lets examine your analogies.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@teriiura Time is supposed to be God - and the three persons are Past, Present, and Future - All separate but All Time (God). So which one is the Past? the Father - so he doesnt exist anymore? Which one is the future? The Son - So he doesnt exist Yet? This analogy fails. Universe (God) is Matter Time Space. Once again - This fails miserably - The Son is Matter but Fully Universe?? The FAther is Time But fully universe? That would be THREE Gods - matter/time are PARTS - which the trinity IS.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@teriiura Water is solid liquid and gas. So the Father is Solid, the Son is Liquid, the Spirit is Gas. They are all separate. But they are NOT ONE - the trinity teaches they are ONE - not three separate parts. Not only that, If the Father is Solid and he is in heaven - the Son is On Earth as Liquid - and He is praying to the Father. Since When is this the SAME GOD? They are completely separated. Now you have Explained GOD as an "essence" NOT a person which is taught clearly - John 17:3.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh God is a person as you are.You have a soul a spirit and a flesh.I hope you understood that the water was only an example...if you didn't then i understand why you don't see clearly.
teriiura 1 year ago
I never understood how any of this changes how we treat each other. How would we be judged on something like the concepts of the Godhead.
thatjimguy 1 year ago
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umm... where are u learning this stuff from??? u believe this because this is just a bunch of crap to be honest. u believe this because this crap is what you have read and believed. which version of the bible are u getting ur quotes from? and dont try to tell me that there is no different versions of the bible because if u do, u are a complete IDIOT!
curlyjoe8135 1 year ago
umm... where are u learning this stuff from??? u believe this because this is just a bunch of crap to be honest. u believe this because this crap is what you have read and believed. which version of the bible are u getting ur quotes from? and dont try to tell me that there is no different versions of the bible because if u do, u are a complete IDIOT!
curlyjoe8135 1 year ago
Shawn teaches the trinity pretty darn well too. but that hair. I can't get over that hair.
Dreamsex101 1 year ago 2
God is a spiritual Being that is Omnipresent. Would an omnipresent being be limited to a finite mortal body (ie Jesus)? NO! An omnipresent being can be present in 1,00,000 distinct persons if He wanted to. However, the Bible only mentions three persons that are God; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So, they can be of the same substance and essence if they are co-eternal (which they are).
TheLogos1 1 year ago
@TheLogos1 So GOD is an ESSENCE NOT a Person - he is an ESSENCE in THREE PERSONS who talk to each other and help each other - STRAIGHT POLYTHEISM. I would like you to find me a place in the bible that teaches the trinity - And you CANNOT use Words that ARENT in the scriptures - Like trinity, god the son, god the holy spirit, incarnation, co equal, co eternal, hypostatic union, God took on flesh, God became a man,three persons one God,triune,etc. Any word not found in the scriptures CANT be used.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
I am supporting the lds definition of God but i must disagree
According to the scriptures Stephen saw then both side by side Jesus also made other references to sitting beside his father ,,, I do not believe the hebrewism reference holds water here . I think the host is debating his interpretation of what Stephen meant ....
picassoui 2 years ago
There is a big problem. If the LDS definition of God is right, there would be three different gods because they believe obviously that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three different people. The problem is God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. But Jesus is omnipotent (a trait that if he was not God he would not have). And the Holy Spirit is omnipresent which is again a trait only God can have. The hebraism is completely 100% correct. You have to understand what is meant by "seated
tkoch25 1 year ago
@tkoch25 First of all, you have to understand what the spirit IS before you say its a person. Who knows the thoughts of a man except HIS SPIRIT within him? The same for God - Who know Gods thoughts except HIS SPIRIT - Would you say YOUR spirit is a separate person from you? I dont think so. You said Yahushua (not jesus) is omnipotent - You seem to Forget all power was GIVEN to Him - he did not have this power already. Acts 3:13, 22, 26.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh I absolutely understand what the spirit is. There is the spirit inside of us, and then there is the HOLY SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit is the third personage of the Trinity. So I am confused as to what you are trying to get at with your statements. Secondly, Jesus was 100% human, and 100% God. Acts 3:13 talks about the Crucifixion of Jesus, and 22 and 26 speak of Moses and Samuel so agian, I'm confused as to what you're getting at.
tkoch25 1 year ago
@tkoch25 You are completely blind - you have no understanding of the Holy Spirit, nor what spirit and soul teaches in the bible. Show me a verse that says Yahushua (not jesus) has a 100% human side and a 100% god side - Show me one verse. Acts 3:13 - Since you are blind you dont SEE - it reads the GOD of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has glorified his SERVANT YAHUSHUA. This is the GOD OF ISRAEL WHO glorified His servant. Acts 3:22 - Moses and Samuel? You are truly blind - This Prophet is the Messiah.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh Show you a verse? There are HUNDREDS! Jesus prays to God, this shows his humanity. Jesus also forgives a man of his sins. Only GOD can forgive a man of all sins. Jesus is omnipotent (a trait only God can have), he knew Judas was going to betray him, that Peter would deny him three times before the rooster crowed. He knew the thoughts of the people. What more proof do you need?
tkoch25 1 year ago
at the right hand" and Shawn explains it to a t! There are 7 "I am" statements that Jesus makes in the NT, and multiple examples of why he must be God. His name is Emmanuel! Which means "God with us!" There is just so many reasons why Jesus is God. And simply the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and in the heart of EVERY believer shows that He must be God as well!
tkoch25 1 year ago
Wait I made an error ..I meant to say I DO NOT support the LDS definition of God .I do stand by the rest of what i said however ..I am not denying that God is Triune i am only stating that I don't think Shawns explanation regarding the hebraism is an adequate response . I do not think he is right in that response ,, regarding it being simply a hebraism. There is no reason to believe that Jesus did not sit beside his father in heaven and that that seating was literal.
picassoui 1 year ago
If you look at it only in the stoning of Stephen you are right. But you have to look at the whole NT. Especially in John when Jesus says, I and the Father are one. There's so much to take into context that we can't possibly decide off of one story.
tkoch25 1 year ago
I take your point and i agree with you there i still disagree with Shawn but i agree with you there .
picassoui 1 year ago
@tkoch25 He said I and the Father are one - does this mean he is the Father Now? Trinity teaches the Son is NOT the Father - But this must mean he is God Now? John 17:11, 21-22 - We are One just as the Father and the Son are ONE, and We are IN the Father and IN the Son - Redefine your definition of ONENESS means - because we are ONE with the FATHER and SON as well, we are obviously not God Almighty, neither is the Messiah.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh No, the Trinity teaches that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three different persons, one God. They are one in Spirit and in purpose. As the believers here on earth have one spirit and one purpose. You're right, we aren't God the Father, nor God in anyway, but Jesus absolutely is God. He is omnipotent just like God. He is omniscient, a trait only God can hold. So yes Jesus is God.
tkoch25 1 year ago
@tkoch25 First of all Yahushua (not jesus) is NOT omniscient as clearly seen in Mark 13:32 and 11:13. Yahushua is ALSO NOT omnipotent as YOU claim - He said He was GIVEN authority from the Father - clearly showing that he is NOT ALMIGHTY GOD who already HAS the power, rather he was GIVEN the power and Glorified by GOD himself. To quote you" They are one in spirit and purpose" Exactly - That means they are NOT the same - GOD is NOT Yahushua - but they are ONE just like WE ARE ONE - John 17:11, 22
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@tkoch25 First of all they are not I AM statements - they are statements period. He said I am the light of the world - you think this somehow means he is the I AM of Exodus? Seriously - You say I AM all the time - Ego eimi in the greek - Are you God when you say I am Hungry? or if someone asks you - Are you so and so? And you say I am, are you God now? I know a mexican dude named Emmanuel - is he God in the flesh? Is GOD a WHO or a WHAT - GOD is an essence to YOU but to me he is a PERSON.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh First of all they absolutely are I AM statements. Read them! If they weren't I AM statements then why did the high priests and the pharisees have him put on trial for blasphemy? He makes I AM statements that EVERYONE at that time saw and understood as Jesus declaring he is God. Yes I say I am hungry, but do I say "I am the way the truth and the life?" Or "I am the bread of life sent from heaven?" Absolutely NOT! Secondly him being named Emmanuel was a prophecy fulfilled. Not
tkoch25 1 year ago
@tkoch25 No they werent I AM statements. You say I am every single day - are you claiming Diety? Dont be ridiculous. Why do you think they put Him on Trial? Have you EVER read the accusations against Him by the Enemies? Show me one enemy when he was on trial that said "This Man claimed to be GOD" Show me the verse. Saying I am the way truth and life is NOT claiming to be GOD - that is a LIE of Satan.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh If you're really going to argue that Jesus didn't claim to be God read what they put on the cross. "King of the Jews." If you want Jesus' claim Matthew 26:64. Jesus' 7 I AM statements in the book of John are absolutely claims of his Divinity! When I say I am, what am I talking about? I am hungry, I am bored, I am tired. Jesus said that you cannot get into heaven except through him! Would I ever say that? No! Jesus claimed divinity through words and actions!
tkoch25 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh just a name that was given.
tkoch25 1 year ago
@tkoch25 Let me ask you a question - what is the name of GOD? YHWH, Yahushua, OR Emmanuel? God only has 1 name, not three names - he gave his name to the Jews - So which is it? Secondly, Emmanuel means God is with us - Do you not know that God was in the Messiah reconciling the world to himself? What about Azarel - is Azarel GOD too? Azarel means God has helped. What about Ba'al the pagan god - Translated Lord? Do you worship the Lord? Luke 7:16 - READ THIS - SIMPLE TEACHINGS.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh God is given MANY names throughout scripture. I don't have enough room for all the names. He is known as King of Kings, Righteous Judge, etc. The meaning of the name isn't necessarily the important thing. Like I said, when they named him Emmanuel it was a fulfillment of a prophesy, I believe from Isaiah.
tkoch25 1 year ago
@tkoch25 That prophecy from Isaiah is disputed - it never was applied to the Messiah in the NT either - regardless, I know a mexican dude names Emmanuel - is he GOD too? The name emmanuel doesnt mean hes God - God doesnt have MANY names - he has MANY TITLES - theres a difference - he has ONE NAME because he is ONE PERSON - YHWH - the messiah has a different name because he is not the same person as GOD. Titles dont prove anything.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
ONLY ONE GOD ALLAH
truthreal1 2 years ago
for unto us a son is born ( jesus)
for unto us a child is given( JESUS)
and HIS name shall be called
wonderful councellor prince of peace
MIGHTY GOD EVERLASTING FATHER
JESUS IS GOD
MORMONS ARE NOTHING BUT A CULT
singledad1234 2 years ago
@singledad1234 The trinity teaches the Father is NOT the Son - so why are you calling the Son Yahushua (not jesus) the FATHER - he is NOT the FATHER this is what the trinity teaches - make up your mind what you believe - men or God. I would also like you to find where this verse is fulfilled by the Messiah in the NT - Show me where.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
hear oh isreal THE LORD GOD IS ONE GOD and besides him there is
NO OTHER
singledad1234 2 years ago
JESUS IS GOD
HE WAS GOD IN THE FLESH
thats pretty simple
singledad1234 2 years ago
Isaiah 44:24, KJV: "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." How can one God in three PERSONS ever be "alone" and "by myself"? Truly, trinitarians are morons!!!!!
denn034 2 years ago
@denn034--There one because they all share the same nature you idiot, God the father, the son, and the spirit are all the one true God, each member of the trinity are is the one God, and because all three persons of the God head are the one God, they all share the same nature and hence making them one, but they exist in persons, not three beings, or three Gods, it's persons, simply put all three members of the trinity make one God.
demondagger19 2 years ago
Dividing the substance isn't possible with the trinity of one God in three persons, so that fact makes it impossible for one person to detach from the other two that would be needed to be alone or by myself. Truly, the trinity contradicts Isaiah 44:24!!!!!
denn034 2 years ago
Father as Creator: Isaiah 64:8
Son as Creator John 1:3, Col. 1:15-17
Holy Spirit as Creator Job 26:13, 33:4
So, in light of those passages, Isaiah 44:24 does not contradict the Trinity doctrine or vice versa.
rodwyr 2 years ago
They're all the creator! Well, it would seem that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit really are just modes of activity of the one absolutely monotheistic God as the modalists have always claimed! If the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all creator, then, those must be modes of the one God before such can ever be alone or by myself. In the end, the classical trinitarian creeds rule out dividing the substance and only modalism can be squared with all three being creator and still alone and by myself.
denn034 2 years ago
So, is my understanding correct that you are a modalist? If so, then did Jesus talk to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane? Was Jesus performing ventriloquism at His baptism? Was Jesus going to change costumes when He said He would send ANOTHER helper? They are separate persons, but are one God. Take away any one of them, and God no longer exists. Unity in diversity. It's all around us. While the functions of each of the Godhead may differ, they have the same ontological nature.
rodwyr 2 years ago
@denn034 Thats not right either - if the Father and Son are just MODES of God - then they wouldnt exist at the same time - because when God is the Son, he would not be in the Father Mode - But the Son PRAYS to the FATHER - John 17:3 - Even calling the Father the ONLY TRUE GOD - Tell me, what does ONLY mean?
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Before you call people idiots you should listen to your own religious dogma - You believe that GOD is a substance?? GOD is not a person he is a Substance SHARED between THREE PEOPLE? How much more pagan can you get - The Son is not omniscient as God is supposed to be - he doesnt know the day or the hour (if you say its his human side that doesnt know, then he is a Deciever or YOU are, only a Deceiver would say he didnt know when his "other side" did.) He's NOT omnipresent Jo 11:15
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "You believe that GOD is a substance?? GOD is not a person he is a Substance SHARED between THREE PEOPLE?"
Uh, I don't remember ever saying that God was a "Substance" first off, and secondly, so you even know what the word "Substance" means in relations to the doctrine of the trinity? Because it's quiet clear that you don't, so I'm going to explain it in a way that hopefully you'll be able to understand.
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 You said quote "They all share the same nature" Now the Trinity teaches Father and Son and Spirit are HOMOOUSIS - greek for SAME SUBSTANCE - You dont know your own doctrine? Nicene Creed = Yahushua (not jesus) [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousion)with the Father. Nature is behavior, character, or essence of a person. Can be equal to substance easily.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh ""They all share the same nature" Now the Trinity teaches Father and Son and Spirit are HOMOOUSIS - greek for SAME SUBSTANCE - You dont know your own doctrine?"
You seriously need to learn how to read more carefully, I never said they were different in nature in anyway smart guy, what part of that don't you understand?
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 You said, "I dont remember saying God was a substance" Which you didnt, you said "Nature" The problem is not with me reading carefully, the problem is with you teaching with WORDS not found in the scriptures - and then you expect me to know this? I study the bible, not pagan words - if you use biblical words we could sese eye to eye - but no words are found in the scriptures to teach a trinity, so what are we going to do then? Turn to Greek Philosophy? No thanks.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh It's exactly what I've meant all along, all the members of the God head are all equally holy, divine etc, and hence sharing or having the same qualities as one another, so there are no differences wherein that is concerned. You've basically said exactly what I already stated before.
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 NOT members, remember, PERSONS. Now truly, three members that make up One GOD - straight polytheism. There are No differences - yet that is why One member the Son, calls the other member, the Father God? The son serves and worships the Father? You call this equal? EVEN AFTER his resurrection he calls the Father MY GOD - John 20:17, EVEN IN HEAVEN he calls the Father MY GOD - Rev 3:2, 12. Show me where the Lamb in Rev is called God Almighty. Its nowhere to be found.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Regardless, the trinity teaches they are the same Substance - which you dont even know what or why you are teaching. For GOD to be three persons, that means they all share the same substance as taught - which means GOD is NOT a Person ( he is three) so GOD has to be a substance SHARED between THREE PERSONS - Which is contradictory of scriptures and is illogical - all the words you use - nature, substance, trinity, etc. is ALL greek philosophical words from pagans.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "all the words you use - nature, substance, trinity, etc. is ALL greek philosophical words from pagans."
Uh, no there not, they are descriptions to sum up what exactly the doctrine of the trinity teaches, if that's the case, then by your logic then, I can say that the word "Trinity" isn't in the bible, and therefore isn't biblical, but, does that make it so? Obviously not if the concept of it is taught throughout scripture which it is.
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Yes they are - In reading about Neo Platonism greek philosophy - here are some words you find in the teachings - being, finite, infinite, substance, essence, hypostasis, nature, etc. ALL the same words used for the trinity. Just listen to a quote here about the trinity = God is a Triune God, existing as three persons but as one being. Saying that God exists as three persons but is one God means that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit exactly duplicate the nature or being of God
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh *do*
demondagger19 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh First off, the word "Substance" is used in relations to Gods very own divine nature, that which makes God what he is (being completly divine and holy within and of himself), but not in relations to some form of protoplasmic goop or anything of the sort, that's something i just wanted to make very clear. Secondly, you said "Three People" I never nowhere mentioned three people, but rather, (Persons), which is reference to describing (Who) someone is, there's a difference.
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 You say "Substance is in relation to Gods very own divine nature" God as in Three persons or God as in the Fathers divine nature? You cant just talk about God and not say Which god you are referring to. which one of the three gods (persons). And do not be ridiculous please - Three People IS Three persons - Basic English - One person, one person, one person = three people. It sounds too much like polytheism which is the true NATURE of the trinity - it is CO EQUAL with Polytheism.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh Look, I'm trying really hard not to call you an idiot right now, but your tempting me to do so, the word (Persons) is used to describe the identity of the God head itself, which is in reference to (God The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), not three seperate gods which the doctrine of the trinity, does not teach, we do not believe in three different seperate gods, is there any part of that you don't understand?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Of course - name calling shows a lack of knowledge - You shouldnt have called people idiots to begin with - then you yourself have NO knowledge, you cant even teach the trinity correctly without stumbling over your own words (which arent found in scripture) I said gods with persons in parenthesis - which is simply polytheism - you can lip service all you want "monotheism", but at the end of the day its still polytheism. If one person is separate from another - is that 1 or 2?
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@demondagger19 You assume just because the trinity doctrine says they are One not three gods, really makes it TRUE? TRUTH is not defined by a pagan teaching - TRUTH is defined by scripture - Where are the Words used to describe the trinity, even the word trinity itself is not found in scripture. IF i teach God is an angelic being, does that make it true - in the same way - trinity says It is ONE GOD - that doesnt mean its TRUE - you need to wake up from your slumber - live in the daytime.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh (Where are the Words used to describe the trinity, even the word trinity itself is not found in scripture.)
Nether is the word (incarnation) ether, but that doesn't make it un-biblical ether, again, the word trinity is only used as a description to describe the trinitarian description described throughout passages that do in fact teach the concept itself, like the passages I just posted earlier.
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "How much more pagan can you get"
Um, first off all, there's nothing "Pagan" about the teaching of the trinity, there's plenty of scriptural support for the teaching of the trinity, both in the OT, and the NT, like for example Gen 1:26, 3:22, 11:7. The real issue here is that you won't except the evidences that do in fact point to the teachings of the trinity, and that's your problem.
cont
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Tell me then what ISNT pagan about it? Gods becoming flesh? Acts 14:11 - PAGAN. The words trinity, triune, co equal co eternal, same substance, same nature, fully man, fully god, divine essence, hypostatic union, etc. ALL PAGAN WORDS - NOT found anywhere in the scriptures. The very Doctrine of the Trinity itself? 1John 5:7 - a fabricated verse Added to the scriptures by PAGAN catholics who eat eat and drink the blood of messiah and worship mary and her statues. Everything about it
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "Gods becoming flesh?"
Wow, that's a pretty idiotic statement to make, you used the word (gods) which was your first mistake, uh, again, christianity does not teach polytheism, we again, are not polytheistic, your the one who keeps implying it when we do not in any way teach that at all, your basically arguing against something that we do not believe in, why do you keep doing that.?
cont
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Not really - Teaching what the pagans believed in Acts 14:11 is idiotic. We are not polytheistic - OK - the mormons keep saying We believe in the God of the bible - SAY it ALL you want - just like everyone else - It WONT Evolve INTO truth overtime - that theory is just as false. Jehovahs witness Keep saying We are the Only Ones who will be saved - OK, STILL FALSE - Muslims keep saying ALLAH is the only God - OK STILL FALSE - What makes you think you are any different?
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh This has nothing to do with anyone else, I would prefer to stay on topic, you said the word "Trinity" isn't found in scripture, and on that note, that is true, but having said that, let's go with your logic by me asking you this question, is the word, again, (Incarnation) found in scripture yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 The word incarnation is not found in scripture. You can find a verse and say this is in reference to the incarnation - the whole point is - the words used to teach trinity are ALL pagan - meaning NOT FROM GOD - if they were they would be in the scriptures. Not only that - all pagan religions believe in incarnation - guess what religion doesnt believe in it at all - JUDAISM - thats right the JEWISH people, just like the JEWISH Messiah you claim to follow and JEWISH TANACH.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
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@BaruchHashemYahweh "The word incarnation is not found in scripture. You can find a verse and say this is in reference to the incarnation - the whole point is - the words used to teach trinity are ALL pagan"
Your right, it's not in there, but the description of it is, is it not?, so what is John 1:14 described as, is it or is it not in relations to the incarnation, yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh But if you mean (God coming in the flesh) or (God becoming a man), these are only (descriptions) which refers to the (Incarnation) of Christ when he became a human being to live a human life among humanity, that's it, if you've also noticed, the word (Incarnation) is nowhere found in scripture ether, but however, the description of it is displayed within scripture itself (see John 1:14-1 John 1:1-3). So, does that make it un-biblical or in this case "Pagan?, no it does not.
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Yes that makes it pagan - is the Word incarnation something GOD CHOSE to put in the scriptures? NO - therefore it is PAGAN, why are you using it? You say God became a man - which is blasphemy - but nonetheless this is a logical fallacy because GOD by definition is 3 persons - but the Father and Spirit are NOT flesh - therefore GOD did not become flesh, only PART of GOD - the son part. Regardless, John 1:14 says the WORD not Yahushua. Is the words God speaks a person? NO.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "but the Father and Spirit are NOT flesh - therefore GOD did not become flesh, only PART of GOD - the son part. Regardless, John 1:14 says the WORD not Yahushua. Is the words God speaks a person? NO."
What does it mean in (John 1:14) when it says "And the word became flesh", tell me literally what it means to you? Is that not the incarnation, yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 John 1:14 the word (logos) became flesh. John 2:22 - many believed the word (logos) Yahushua had spoken. John 17:17 - sanctify them for your word (logos) is truth. You are in ERROR - the LOGOS is spoken word, communication, etc. When the SPOKEN WORD of GOD became Flesh - think about it - what did God speak? About the messiah being born - then the Word that GOD spoke to His prophets BECAME FLESH (figuratively) - meaning Yahushua Fulfilled the prophetic WORD of GOD about the Messiah
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "John 1:14 the word (logos) became flesh."
Your not answering the question, does this verse teach the incarnation of Christ, yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 I just answered it read the comment seriously.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "I just answered it read the comment seriously."
Uh, no you didn't. All I'm asking for is a yes or no answer, does john 1:14 in context, teach the incarnation, yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Yes i did read my comments - I clearly said the word became flesh and what it meant. Are you blind? Matt 15:14.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "You are in ERROR - the LOGOS is spoken word, communication, etc."
How in the world can a word or some sort of abstract communication be tangible enough for it to be described as it "dwelling among us" according to John 1:14 smart guy? John is obviously speaking about a person, not an abstract or some sort of metaphor, now answer the question, does the phrase "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." teach the incarnation of Jesus, yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 Because the word BECAME FLESH - what do you mean how can communication dwell among us - it says the word - meaning the spoken prophecies about the coming messiah - became flesh - meaning fulfilled in Yahushua the Messiah - do you not Believe he is the Prophecies Fulfilled? You cannot be blind as a bat on this issue - it is simple - you need to turn away from your error - you act like you are fighting the enemy - but you are fighting God.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh "what do you mean how can communication dwell among us - it says the word - meaning the spoken prophecies about the coming messiah - became flesh"
That's completly nonsensical, because the context of the passage is not prophetic in nature, it's not prophetical, rather, it is a description of who, or what this particular Word is, it doesn't have anything to do with prophecy at all.
demondagger19 1 year ago
@demondagger19 OK just completely forget what the Word of GOd means all throughout the bible EXCEPT for John 1 and make it a person - then go back to the regular meaning of the WORD OF GOD through the ENTIRE TANACH and NT THOUSANDS OF TIMES. This passage is talking about Genesis in case you didnt notice - i didnt say it was "prophetical" i said the Word of God is the prophecies about the messiah - that is what was fulfilled, hence the term "became flesh" when messiah was Born - it is simple.
BaruchHashemYahweh 1 year ago
@BaruchHashemYahweh Answer the question, do you know what the word "Incarnation" means, yes or no?
demondagger19 1 year ago