Item 117 (AL-41F1) Engine - Fiery Heart of the Pak Fa fighter / Изд. 117 (АЛ-41Ф1)

[jedijaffy56]

So I take it that the russians are going to stick with the conventional 3D TVS style nozzle rather then go the way of the F-22? It may reduce stealth a little bit but considering the T-50s maneuverability and avionics suite, im sure it can easily hold its own :). Greetings from USA.

[MoreBankrBailoutsPLZ]

wish Canada could partner with India & Russia and get our own t-50's,not the looser f35

[MoreBankrBailoutsPLZ]

PAK FA = WINNING! f35 = major fail

[mrvishal1000]

America is too much obsessed with stealth

[mrvishal1000]

@rustygates planes can out maneuver missiles,....plus 3d vectoring gives better maneuverab

[mrvishal1000]

@6308281 really? show me from u got this information,...Russian intelligence have better deployed spies than the us(their int. is better than the US, just like how the KGB was in the past)

[USSWISCONSIN64]

looks more like a fighter-bomber then just a fighter.

[cadmus98]

Observe 3:22 - they use Windows XP? America wins ;-)

[MoreBankrBailoutsPLZ]

@cadmus98 "they use Windows XP? America wins ;-)" maybe it's a pirated copy = america looses

[cadmus98]

@MoreBankrBailoutsPLZ My point is: when you have to use American technology to design your own technology, then that shows who is technologically superior.

[Shivajisena26uk]

NIce insight into T50 can't wait to see this baby in Indian colours

[mauricioalfredo83]

I still dont get why pwoplw keep talking about canceled-grounded plane like f22...I just fell kind of sorry for american people who have to pay that much...the only current planes fron use are F15SE and F18E

[prjerry7]

@mauricioalfredo83 F-22 isnt cancelled, there are around 180 F-22 fighters in service now, they were grounded due to oxygen problems but that was quickly fixed & in the last few months theiv been back in the air.

Their not being used in war because their not needed, F-15 has destroyed 200 outdated badly piloted Russian jets with 0 looses in wars with developing countries, theres no need for F-22 to be in Afghanistan.

[Ma3gau]

masterpiece! f22's engine is only vertically thrust vector one. this is because americans were unable to make elastic materials to allow 360 degree vectoring. russians are the world's brain power as they have proven once again.

[prjerry7]

@Ma3gau i wouldnt say Russians have the world brainpower, USA has been the center of science in the world for the last 70 years, Russia in the other hand has largely declined its role in modern science.

3d thrust vectoring wouldnt work with F-22 because F-22 vertical stabilizer are firmly placed while Pak-fa's are basically Rudders allowing for more movement.

Also, taking tight right/left turns isnt very safe for pilots thus USAF didnt require it.

[TheKingnek]

@prjerry7 the Russians have good weaponry, the main problem is their economy and their failure to integrate the technology into the consumer market. The US attracts thousands of the best scientists from all over the world including Russian ones

[kertaspaper94]

@TheKingnek You're also right. I believe the Russians need to diversify its products, instead of just relying on oil, low-cost weapons and vodka ( LOL ). BTW, what do they have to offer the world ? No offense Russians, You are still awesome people.

[cadmus98]

@kertaspaper94 "BTW, what do they have to offer the world ?"

America offers hamburgers, pornography, electronics, music and accurate guns.

Russia offers caviar, mail order brides, tetris, Tchaikovsky and reliable guns.

[kertaspaper94]

@prjerry7 You're right. Besides, the Russians themselves design the T-50 to be slightly more manouvrable ( Did I spell it right ? ) than the Raptor at the cost of being slightly less stealthy than It (Raptor).

[prjerry7]

@kertaspaper94 they also made t-50 bigger to have a bigger engine.

[TheProjektcc]

@Ma3gau

moron the US didn't use 360 thrust vectoring for the same reason they didn't use a movable LEX like the pak fa because it compromises stealth.

The main requirement for a "stealth" fighter is usually stealth but it is Russian tradition to make highly maneuverable fighters so they sacrificed little stealth to make Pak-fa for maneuverable than f-22. I think this is a mistake in my opinion cause the latest versions of the flanker were already more maneuverable than raptor.

[rustygates]

@Ma3gau You idiot, the vertical thrust vectoring only is used because the horizontal stabilizer are placed right behind and beside the outlet so that it absorbs the heat of the engines and disperses it outwards, for stealth, which these Russian planes don't have. 360 deg vectoring would destroy the fins.

"Unable to make elastic materials". My asshole.

Why would you even need 360 vectoring? You want thrust vectored yaw?? No plane can out maneuver a missile. Superior avionics is the way to go.

[buriduh]

Thank you for translating this.

[Husar101]

@buriduh

thanks for watching

[ANimouz]

The typical arguing about F-22 and T-50. When both nations can support them in battle with AWACS, jammers etc etc.. The one who wins is the one with the better training and tactics. Technology wise USSR/Russia-USA were pretty much equal, although they had different ideologies and tactics which forced them to further develope different kind of technologies.

[mshigorin]

@ANimouz the one who wins is the one who fights for the truth, not for blind money -- and it's not the US from what we can see. (those wishing to argue might still decide to study 1943 better before the plunge, as well as 1812 and 1380)

[sanj477]

that's al41f new version of the al31f. the maximum thrust genrate(160kn to 182kn)congrat npo saturn &layulka.

[Husar101]

OK...translation has been completed.

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@2:41 F-22 tried Su-37 Terminator maneuver but seems very slow in execution.Makes you wonder why is F-22 trying to poorly copy 20-30 year old Russian maneuvers if Usaf claims how maneuvering is thing of the past???

[Husar101]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

the 5h gen fighters (the F-35 is an exception) are designed to be maneuvarable at supersonic speeds

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@Husar101

That reply was way off topic.

[Husar101]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

what do you mean bratko?

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@Husar101

My comment you replayed on wasn't about how or what gen fighters are maneuverable at subsonic or supersonic speeds.My comment brat was a question:Why is F-22 trying to copy Russian maneuvers and copying them badly if they "USAF"claim that maneuvering and visual range combat is thing of the past?

[Husar101]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

OK, I see.

IMO, the F-22 does does maneuvers because it can.... the only one of the US fighters that can do them

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@Husar101

I know that but they are done maneuvers usually under controlled situations and usually in very low speeds.Makes me wonder would F-22 really survive even Cobra maneuver under real circumstances.

[Husar101]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

AFAIK, it doesn't do the Cobra

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@Husar101

It tried in shows :-)

[Abanamat85]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

No one is trying to copy any "20 year old manuevers". These aircraft are built with specific performance requirements, for specific tasks, and therefore, using today's technology end up looking and performing the way they do.

Personally, I think that all the "A is copying from B" talk is bull***t, and people simply do not know how aircraft are built (what an enormous project that is).

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@Abanamat85

Really?What requirements F-22 needs to fulfill when is claimed how it shoots down everything BVR,which means it will never need to use those maneuvers?It's claimed how it doesn't need maneuvering,how dog fighting is thing of the past by manufacturers.My question is:Why is it trying to mimic Russian old maneuvers?And mimic them under controlled conditions in shows.Doing them in combat would result in destruction of the craft.Enormous failure of project is F-22,for those who follow it

[Abanamat85]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

Thse claims (e.g that the Raptor shoots everything down in BVR) are just LM's internal marketing.

I can't answer your question regarding maneuvers, because doing so would mean I agree with the notion that the F-22 mimics old Russian maneuvers. It doesn't.

Btw, just so we're clear, I'm Russian, and I like Pak-Fa more.

The F-22 became a "failure" due to bureaucratic budgeting nightmare (which Pak-Fa might yet do), not because it's not an amazing fighter plane (which it is).

[Abanamat85]

@BoxyTheSpaceDog

Also, calling the Su-37 "Terminator" is childish. The Su-37 was nothing more than the old Su-35 (prototype) with 2D thrust-vectoring engine and some French LCD displays. THATS IT.

The new Su-35S is much much better.

Pulling "cobra" in a dogfight isn't of much use as being able to accelerate and out-turn.

The F-22 (as unfortunate as it is) is an amazing piece of technology, with LOTS of potential, and the Pak Fa has yet to prove itself (which I'm certain that it will).

Peace!

[BoxyTheSpaceDog]

@Abanamat85

Both of your replays are totally off topic!My comment was just and example.It doesn't matter what plane did the maneuvers(Su or Mig).My comment was(again)why is F-22 copying those maneuvers?And they are much older than Su-37,which is now Su-30MK(that has 3-D vectoring),not Su-35!My question was why if dog fighting is dead are those maneuvers practiced by a fighter that Lockheed Martin describes as unbeatable BVR?And yet Russian jets now have better radars,Ols,sensors,missile range.

[tass101]

@Abanamat85

I agree with you, but I would add that the F-22 and T-50 have their strengths and weaknesses.

[muttamutta]

@tass101 I would argue that as platforms they are equal (a bit lower RCS probably on the F22, bigger bays in the Pak FA and higher top speed). As for maneuvering i can't decide since most maneuvers are vertical pitch-related.

The big difference however are that the Pak FA will have OLS (similar to DAS) while the F22 has no IRST. The ranges for detection with IRST will be greater in a fight between stealth fighters than that of radar, and its passive!

[Husar101]

I've added (currently only partial) english translation...hope to finish the rest today

[AFosterBoy]

Nice 3d thrust vectoring in that powerplant :)

[xeniosaias]

woooowww