You know why everyone doesn't want to believe this? Because if this technology is affordable... Video game prices should come down. The actual paychecks of employees should come down. The size of companies should come down. There is no reason why a game couldn't and shouldn't be released on every system. Why the dev cycle should be so long and why the price should drop significantly because of all it. A lot of rich people are not going to be getting richer, but a lot of struggling people could.
these two engines don't present any kind of physics, have to consider that physical computing is the most complicated one (or heavy loaded one) in modern graphic technologies...
Already did in an other video, but also remember what they say abount the elephant? It has 117.000 polygons if i am correct (plz say the right number cause it is a guess) so that is alteady hard for a laptop to handle ;)
@deifo umm I would think that for demonstration purposes they copied the objects as you say, but it has the potential for artists to make different objects and textures, because polygons have textures that are the same usually.
Hopefully this project will get through and be implemented by game companies so that pc gamers won't need to buy a powerful machine to run the latest games
I never doubted Bruce from the beginning and have always seen the potential.
Luckily I'm just a nobody so I don't have to worry my post causing problems, I just appreciate everything I get to see, it's all amazing and I'm always enjoying the constant reminder of how powerful the human brain can be. (I speak to the whole team as well).
It's something I dreamed of but too lazy to pursue, I just stick to soaking up knowledge without any status to use it :)
Sorry for the reply to myself but I forgot to mention I'd love to see this technology used to science modeling. The Universe scanned in from the Hubble Telescope further scanned into Euclideon, projected into an unlimited 3D space = Heavenly.
Be realistic. This method has limits to how much you can store, just no limits of how much of that total you can have on screen. What those limits ARE, I can't be sure, as I don't know how they're handling their "atoms" in terms of data. Clearly, the limits aren't too "limiting" from the island demonstration.
@Arteanor Who really knows because they don't reveal anything. Bragging and using childish comparation like baking cookies. Do animation and do it in quality what people expect 2012 is different.
@Lastoneremains You have no idea how polygon works and higher resolution wouldn't take less space. The material is dead without light, alpha, reflection etc so how can it look more realistic? We can't scan a whole city in super details and Euclideon doesn't tell the features of this engine. It's static!
@hombacom Alpha maps are managed by the textures. Reflection is possible. You can just create a scale model of a city with say clay and then modify it to look better in game. Higher resolution does take more space. Lighting can be done with shaders which seem like they would work in this quite easily. Animation is animation, if it can run skeletal animation of that quality it can run it at almost any quality. Shadows are likely dynamic from what I gathered from the demonstration.
@Lastoneremains Hey you have all answers to questions game developers had for years. Suddenly there is no limits? Do the world consist of lazy developers that can't think and suddenly one man appear and tell what nobody thought of? Realtime light/shadows and physics can make any engine crawl on its knees. Euclideon said they not optimized their demo yet and still have 95% features left, who else can have those excuses when demonstrating what they have?
@hombacom There are limits but they are much higher than what we are at now. Developers are not lazy in the least. Physics is usually approximations and light/shadows are quite complex to do, luckily there are tricks to get around a few of the issues. I was saying that it is likely possible to run those things in the engine. Seriously, you just seem to be attempting to troll me.
This is an amazing piece of Technology. Since 3D was created! Think of the Video Games? Think of the movies' CGI? Think you don't even have to actual act anymore, just let this Technology to do. Think...if you could even touch a face on a screen for the first time? Think how rich they are!!?? This is a good/bad scenario. Awesome technology + World Bankers = Anonymous .... lol just kidding just letting loose.
I really want to see this succeed. I imagine they're having to drive through limitations they are now discovering, but I think it can ultimately revolutionize the way games are designed if it's even a tenth as good as they're describing here. I mean, it looks amazing, but it remains to be see how far it can go in a world as large and varied as, say, Red Dead Redemption's, plus animation and physics. I'm expecting some major limitations, but I hope for the best here.
Wtf does that greedy ass have to do with anything ? Wtf is wrong with you kid ?
I work in the industry, and i know how limited this technology is, voxel engines been used in games for as long as i remember, and died for a reason, its nothing new, and their technology is even more limited.
Prove what, you obviously dont know shit about game design. and you dont have idea what are they even showing.
Educate yourself and come back.
And im still waiting for you to say what notch has to do with this video, or do attention whore to the point you mention random famous ppl in every comment ?
@googleslocik No, Notch mentioned months ago through his Twitter that he thought the atomic polygon concept was a scam and people have been parroting his words like drones ever since.
I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that this is impossible.
@Lastoneremains And actually can finish something? It comes from a guy that in short time have sold 5 millions copies and people have done 3 millions Youtube-movies of the game. The work speak for itself.
@CrookedSmirk It's a shame, too, because people are misunderstanding what he was saying. He was saying that, while it sounds very awesome, there's lots of things to take into account like the fact many models were repeated over and over and there was no animation. He advised people to remember that it is not a finished product and there's no guarantee that they'll be able to get it working for a game engine... but they might. We just have to wait and see.
Too bad their rendering shenanigan, as good shenanigans they may be, won't work for animation, therefore making this completely useless for gaming. Next.
This isn't really a new way of making 3D-Graphics. Notch is right, what they've done has been done before(Voxels) and they keep saying that, BUT, the way the graphics are built aren't interesting.
The interesting thing here is that it is a new way of RENDERING graphics.
Instead of loading the whole area around you, like current graphic-engines, it ONLY loads the PIXELS that needs to be visible on the screen(With exception of physics).
@TheCelestialSphere The world must still fit in memory to avoid loading time or pauses, so you can't put endless details. There is a lot of optimization in current engines to render only "what you see". You take too easy on the problem, animation or changes screw up the simplification "only the pixels that needs to be visible on the screen"
Current engines works by loading up all the graphics around the viewer, even though the viewer aren't really watching those things.
Unlimited Detail would instead only load the graphics when you actually are watching them.
Objects still have x,y,z coordinates when they aren't visible, meaning physics would work, but they would not be loaded visibly until the camera would be pointed at them.
how do you want to calculate physics for objects that arent loaded into the memory ? like back of a ball that you throw at something, or a object partially oculded by another random object ?
And that's ignoring that it takes years to simulate only 1 frame for such complex environments.
@TheCelestialSphere Nothing is unlimited. You don't think people tried all kind of solutions and choosed different? You load into memory because you don't want lag from a slow HD. Some people buy everything what Euclideon says and can't think by themself. Because Euclideon don't show any real games everyone can create their own version of how it works, imagination is unlimited :-)
@hombacom they are only 9 fucking people developing a brand new method of rendering 3d graphics, the only real difference in usual development is using a converter to convert the data from polygons to the voxels/atoms.
@Lastoneremains Facts: Bruce/Unlimited Detail has been around since 2003 (wikipedia) and we haven't seen a single atom moved/been animated yet 9 years later. It's not so smart to focus on one problem and forget the rest. Comparing to finished games with a static pointless repeating demo is redicilous and they should stop bragging to be taken a little bit serious.
@hombacom Until two or so years ago it was one person, Bruce dell. If you actually watch the interview he explains what happened. He even shows the old demo's which do have animation (though clunky skeletal animation). Even if it isn't possible now it would likely be possible in the near future, as the founder of ID software said: no chance of a game on current gen systems, but maybe several years from now. Production issues will be challenging.
@Lastoneremains Anything could be possible in future! But saying and doing is two different things. Euclideon try to sell higher resolution, but nothing else. If they hadn't high resolution people would laugh at their creations. Why do he show the clunky animation, to tell that he sucks at animation or because its the only thing he have at the moment?
@hombacom Actually resolution is the limitation, as time goes on the graphical boosts will be in lighting, shaders, and resolution and to a lesser extent model quality (as better storage mediums come up they can fit in higher detail items). if you say that its pointless because of the space limits you need to keep in mind that lower resolution models also take up space thus games will have an estimated 5X detail boost when they finish with less updates in consoles and computers.
@hombacom If you are talking about the models then no duh, its a tech demo. The clunky animation they shown is to show it is able to do it, while it is clunky that was due to his inexperience, remember, that was near the very start of the creation of the engine
@Lastoneremains But just because Euclideon succeed to do an "engine" with higher resolution on static content without effects doesn't mean they have the wide knowledge in 3D. You don't just hire some people. Everyone working with development knows that different techniques have different advantages. You can't have endless distance/details if there is interactive parts in the picture, so not giving any real case scenarios its impossible to say if the engine is more efficient than anything else.
@hombacom they didn't say it was the most efficient engine no matter what, they just said its more efficient than polygons. Explain why interactivity would cause everything to randomly fail. They didn't randomly hire the people. seriously, you seem to be trolling for the sake of trolling, whats wrong with having hope, even if it is a lie it doesn't hurt anything, just trolling them isn't going to help and may cause us to miss an opportunity to revolutionize gaming.
@Lastoneremains If you don't have knowledge why engines work like they do, you can't compare. Polygons are perfect to describe surfaces efficient that we experience flat in distance regardless of angle. Skin, walls, roads, slopes etc. Tell me how many atoms do you need to describe a natural mountain surface of 1 square km? Even if Euclideon has resolution, they create a world of straight blocks, why? Because its more easy technically. And that isn't realism.
@hombacom it would only take as many vertexes as on the polygonal model, heck, your argument could be debunked by the leaf that accidentally clip into in this video, no pixelation at all. If you say its impossible to have a model with few of them than look at the figure they move around. in a few area's there is little info on where they are but the renders look just fine. It seems that you are ignoring everything in the video and trying to find ways to prove me wrong.
@Lastoneremains Great to scan a stone or leaf in very high resolution but nobody talks about how much data you need at that level to create a whole city or forest. Polygon engines try to solve that problem instead of ignoring size of RAM/HD like Euclideon. DICE could also make a super natural tree or dirt land if they skipped the rest. And the buzz about scanning? Why not just convert existing models, the demo look old in style even if its scanned.
@hombacom They scan them into polygons, they can use a program to simplify the models and then convert them to the new format which would use up less data as it doesn't need to save what is connected to the vertexes, just the vertexes themselves. And no need for model swapping would further allow for more detail. Because scanning yields more realistic results. The cheap look in the video is largely due to video compression.
@hombacom Heck, flat shapes put together to create an model isn't realism if I go by your logic. Sure you can have flat objects with polygons easily (a single quadrilateral would do) but it is also perfectly possible with the atoms, watch the demo, its plainly obvious.
I just want to say "This will change everything!"... I would love to become a developer for this technology. It seems the table has turned in favor to the little guy with a big dream for unlimited detail which lives in us all!
its funny all the people that criticized this technology when if you think about it, they got a grant of 1.3 million dollars, i doubt anyone would of gotten that amount of money from a technology that was bogus
@alvarg I don't find the main interviewee believable. Whether he's working on the technology or just management, it takes a lot of dedication and his character seems all over the place as well as seeming to lack a foundation in what should be his field of expertise.
More importantly, they didn't address the concerns, with the exception of camera pitch/yaw maybe. What has been stated against them is still valid criticism, and their avoidance of it makes the whole campaign suspicious.
@HiAdrian i understand what your saying but keep in mind that people will criticize for the sake of criticizing and this island demo wasn't meant as a "this is our technology how do you like it", it was more hey fans this is where we are up to, then people are like this is crap doesn't work blah blah even if they showed us what they up to now because it isn't perfect the critics will still be like err it doesn't do this or it doesn't have this and still complain so whats the point
"More importantly, they didn't address the concerns,"
state the concerns listed BEFORE this video was made, that he didn't clarify...
i think he rather eloquently explained that what they THOUGHT he was doing, was not what he WAS doing.... i don't know how people can't understand it when he explains it.
" with the exception of camera pitch/yaw maybe. What has been stated against them is still valid criticism, and their avoidance of it makes the whole campaign suspicious.
@HiAdrian which leads me to believe that people that are here bashing it, are not doing it for some misunderstanding, it tells me it is a malicious action to forward the interest of some counter interest.
they owe you NOTHING, why on EARTH do you thnk you DESERVE some sort of insider peek inside their technology before they can even get it finished.....
you caught wind of something, it was a lucky peek, he was gracious to explain, you greedy hateful twit.
@Arteanor I think you're the hateful one here. I would bet money on this not coming to fruition and consider your lack of skepticism highly naive. They came forward with buzzword laden marketing speech, supposedly being way ahead of current technology, but didn't deliver (beyond what has been possible before). If you go public, especially in this manner, it makes you open to criticism; this has nothing to do with owing anything.
It's almost as though he doesnt even know his own system during the real time demo. By the fact that he's asking "I want to drive" and also that he's repeating some things, I dont really believe him although the idea, very plausible. I just dont believe HIM, I could imagine someone else is making it for him though. I will be impressed when I see some actual developers getting their hands on it though. I am excited.
I'm considering studying in 3d animation but I'm afraid this is true and get released in some years then all my learning about polygonals would have be useless.
@drakenlorde Euclideon will revolve around what people have already come to understand about computer graphics and will not completely be changing the format, so that people who have degree’s in computer graphic’s, or have been working with computer graphic’s most of their live will actually find this software very easy, in fact easier to use than what they are currently working with, due to the obvious simplicities this software will offer.
Q: can you laser scan something like a tree? something that has details inside, which hidden by leafs on the outside? I guess you would need xray scan or something.
not so, you just need enough lasers or enough passes, to get ALL of the details you want/need from the object.
to be honest, i dont think that they ways that laserscanning is done affects this tech much, since they are capable of using industry 3d images to the same result.
this is so sparse voxel octree. Its pretty much the only mathematical structure can do this. Which might well be the way of the future. but these guys need to release soon, because the techs going to be a big part of ID tech6 and the train will have left the station.
They should also use the extra power to move into being able to view it with 3D glasses without the frame rate loss experienced when done on polygon platforms.
I'm just intrigued how they map the textures with the respective atomic arrangement. The objects certainly does not look polygonal to me... Hmm.. I still could not grasp the technology, converting from polygons to atoms will still take an immense amount of memory. Assuming that instead of vertices, we have tiny dots now representing the bumps.. that would take millions of dots/atoms. Let's just hope this is real, I'm itching to see how the end product of a game from this technology will be.
Euclideons technology is great. There marketing sucks. If they hadn't made so many outrageous claims they might actually have been taken seriously by leading businesses. But no, they went ahead and said they could do things that are impossible thereby wrecking any chance at seeming credible to major game companies. Good job!
@SlamDrag you realise he shown a live demo running on a laptop. So any outrageous claims are backed up with the technology and demos they've given... They also didn't say they could do impossible things, impossible would be it can't be done, it can and has been and the fact that he isn't saying anything about developers is a sign that they're interested.
@Rebo00 2 GTX 580s couldn't handle this. You need a single GTX 560 to even run Battlefield 3. Add in physics, particle effects, AI and 64 players on the screen two GTX 580s would be crawling.
the search engine algorithm should be then capable of accessing this data in such a way that it only accesses the pixels needed on screen and ignores the others.
If using 2Ghz on several core about 6-10Ghz or 6-10 billion of operation can be achieved, on a res. of 1300*768 = 1 millions pixels time 20 frames a second = 20 millions to retreive so about 300-500 max instructions per pixel atom on software only. The search algorithm must be fast and obviously Bruce said it could be optimised by 2/3.
There is one thing that is sure, the data or at least the color of an "atom" must be saved and compressed somewhere. Their current resolution uses up to 4 "atoms" per millimiter so 4*4*4 = 64 per cube millimetre or 4*1000*4*1000*4*1000= 64 trillions possible atoms per cube metre. If the system consists of a compiler that takes point cloud data and converts it in to a compressed format,
What I dont understand is how they are going to implement physics into the equation. Maybe this is a big challenge, maybe not.
And for usage, if not perhaps for gaming, this can very well be used in medical applications, building simulation, geology..
Love it when people have a totally new set of eyes on things, and we would never have gaming in general if all we did was listen to the nay-sayers.. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK CHAPS!!!
yes, you are technically correct, however, you are downplaying that this is going to be AS MUCH of a gamechanger as 3D graphics, shader models, or anti-aliasing, if not more, than all 3 combined.
this WILL change how we program games. it is only a matter of time.
this IS the way games will be in the future, whether it is with euclideon's technology or something similar, there is no denying that this is the only next step to take.
@Arteanor I am not downplaying anything, It means nothing until the tech is publicly available for many reasons. 1. we don't even know if its a con yet, 2. we dont know how well it really handles in real world situations. For example animation has not been shown to work yet, only been promised to work...call me sceptical and you would be right. 3. how much memory and resources would it take to texture all of these assists if wanted to make unique content? etc. Think before you speak.
be skeptical, but the evolution to THIS TYPE of technology is the ONLY place left for us to go.
" 3. how much memory and resources would it take to texture all of these assists if wanted to make unique?" if these were factors do you not think that would be indicated?
how can it be a con if he doesnt want $ "Think before you speak."
@Arteanor I am a animation student but I have also one quite a bit of professional work including games development, interactive media development, general software dev etc If you cant understand the basic concept that all surfaces need to have shaders and /or procedural/image based texture then thats not my problem. All of these textures take up memory both in storage and if you need to reference them fast in ram (in the case of drawing them on screen in realtime that would mean ram...
"I am a animation student but I have also one quite a bit of professional work in.... If you cant understand the basic concept that all surfaces need to have shaders and /or procedural/image based texture then thats not my problem"
i never said anything to the contrary.
whats your point exactly?
you havent actually made one, just give a explanation on computer functions my 6 year old nephew could have written...
@Arteanor to even take advantage of this tech you would need to have a huge amount of content being displayed, unless your game is using pointcloud based colouring then this will require more than probably for all those items to use textures. I am aware that people can be extremely efficient with textures but if this is real then this is a completely different league.
It isnt the only place left to go and it isnt the place that most needs attention.
@Arteanor Geometry processing is such a tiny fraction of rendering and we can currently draw huge amounts of geometry and its growing exponentially. The problems in rendering come from dynamic simulations, physics, lighting, shadows, complex shaders. None of these are addressed here and until they are this tech is going to be as held back as the normal method is.
Granted with the spare processing power left over on the GPU we can improve these things, but we are a long way away.
@Arteanor re did I watch the video....videos can be faked. I work in 3d and compositing predominantly so I know how easy it is to make fake things exist. Do I think it is? I reserve judgement until its released.
r.e. money, they have already got money but thats not the only reason people con people, notoriety? because they can? People do these things all the time.
"re did I watch the video....videos can be faked."
but the explanations are THERE,
" I work in 3d and compositing predominantly so I know how easy it is to make fake things exist. "
so your saying that John Gatt is a schill for euclideon and he ISNT actually driving there.... and that he is brazenly lying and throwing away any credibility...
do you HEAR yourself???
"Again think before you speak."
you should think just once, take the shrink wrap off first.
@Arteanor You have no idea what you are talking about sorry. I will try again. Imaging a world with 10,000 assets, irrespective of how high poly they are and irrespective of if that colour information can be converted at runtime to infinite cloud data the information still needs to be there in some state or another are we agreed? Now imagine a world with a million unique assets. Not even thinking about the work load imagine the amount of texture data that needs to be stored.
"You have no idea what you are talking about sorry. I will try again. Imaging a world with 10,000 assets, irrespective of how high poly they are and irrespective of if that colour information .....:"
YOU STUPID FUCK, this is exactly what im talking about, LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS...
instead of drawing spinning polygons, they have an algorithm that only draws 1 atom for each pixel from the data, and draws that, and your still a moron.
@Arteanor p.s. I know their explanation and it makes perfect sense they are using probably using some sort of fractal/resolution specific grid based multidimensional hash table look up system. It makes sense I am not doubting it works if it is in fact legitimate. I am doubting the practicality of implementing it. Especially when you realise that geometry rendering it only a small and not even the most important part of realistic rendering.
@sacredgeometry True, I am thinking it may be best if used in conjunction with current polygon graphics. I would think a hybrid system. However, I am not super familiar with how graphics actually work. . . .which may mean I am wrong. LOL
@s1ider Until we know how it works exactly I can't honestly say. A friend of mine thinks exactly the same thing :) And he is very familiar with 3d graphics, at least from a high level perspective i.e as a professional artist and dynamics specialist.
The strange thing about this system is, is that I asked this question in my early teens, some what 14 years ago. "Why does it take more power to render things when all you are doing is pushing colour information to piles at the end of the day...
@s1ider Later on I understood why by being indoctrinated into why, but it still was at the back of my thoughts. Now I am finally glad to have that question at least partially concluded.
damn some of you people are so ignorant, this is huge. this will change the movie industry, gaming industry and anything concerning computer graphics. directors and game developers are going to be able to make movies and games for a quarter of the price meaning more fun and entertainment for everyone. stop hating and rejoice
@MJDT11 I assume you received your masters in Games programming considering how sure you are of that. This is made entirely using voxels rendering (looks it up), in a nutshell the reason it can be so detailed is because they are not many unique models in the environment. On top of that there is a reason that this type of graphics has only ever been used in medical imagery and the like, because to actually animate something is near impossible, however spinning it on an axis is easy
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX As Bruce Dell states in the interview, at this point they have put least focus on showcasing and more focus on the development of the tech, as they are a software development team and must have their priorities, which should be obvious, its software development and because they already have all the funding they need it would be unnecessary to fully show it of until the soft has been complete.
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX You have to understand in-terms of computer graphics there is a straight road and then there is the long curvy road. That long and curvy road is one we have been taking so far and it was always going to be a matter of time before we corrected this error.
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX Thankfully the long road has not been a waste, as it has encouraged us to discover immense computer power, which will be taken advantage of by Euclideon’s software in ways that I don't believe you are capable of understanding at this point. It also will revolve around what people have already come to understand about computer graphics and will not completely be changing the format, so that people who have degree’s in computer graphic’s,
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX or have been working with computer graphic’s most of their live will actually find this software very easy, in fact easier to use than what they are currently working with, due to the obvious simplicities this software will offer.
You know why everyone doesn't want to believe this? Because if this technology is affordable... Video game prices should come down. The actual paychecks of employees should come down. The size of companies should come down. There is no reason why a game couldn't and shouldn't be released on every system. Why the dev cycle should be so long and why the price should drop significantly because of all it. A lot of rich people are not going to be getting richer, but a lot of struggling people could.
Houstain 8 hours ago
Suck it NOTCH! U LAIR!
MrHellstorm102 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
these two engines don't present any kind of physics, have to consider that physical computing is the most complicated one (or heavy loaded one) in modern graphic technologies...
Gilvin 1 day ago
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Gilvin 1 day ago
didn't answer any questiosns
BledsoeBluvd 1 day ago
@deifo i think they
Already did in an other video, but also remember what they say abount the elephant? It has 117.000 polygons if i am correct (plz say the right number cause it is a guess) so that is alteady hard for a laptop to handle ;)
lordaloa 2 days ago
make the next elder scrolls, or remake one of them using this system.
nickisepicwin 3 days ago
@nickisepicwin Imagine Morrowind with unlimited detail XD
SuperGukke 2 days ago
@deifo umm I would think that for demonstration purposes they copied the objects as you say, but it has the potential for artists to make different objects and textures, because polygons have textures that are the same usually.
SkiminStones 3 days ago
Don't want to get down on voxels, but Euclideon needs to put up or shut up. Otherwise he sounds just like a snake oil salesman.
For those interested in reproducable results, check out Gigavoxels, get access to the ACM database and check out what they have on offer there.
angusm 4 days ago
It might also mark the end of CGI animations
Chic01taliano 4 days ago
Hopefully this project will get through and be implemented by game companies so that pc gamers won't need to buy a powerful machine to run the latest games
Chic01taliano 4 days ago
I never doubted Bruce from the beginning and have always seen the potential.
Luckily I'm just a nobody so I don't have to worry my post causing problems, I just appreciate everything I get to see, it's all amazing and I'm always enjoying the constant reminder of how powerful the human brain can be. (I speak to the whole team as well).
It's something I dreamed of but too lazy to pursue, I just stick to soaking up knowledge without any status to use it :)
Respect to Bruce & Euclideon.
MusicalSamurai 4 days ago 4
@MusicalSamurai
Sorry for the reply to myself but I forgot to mention I'd love to see this technology used to science modeling. The Universe scanned in from the Hubble Telescope further scanned into Euclideon, projected into an unlimited 3D space = Heavenly.
MusicalSamurai 4 days ago
simply amazing
warks97 4 days ago
The problem with that "Unlimited Detail" technology is that every object is a copy of another object. There's little uniqueness in that geometry.
Unless they prove the contrary with another video.
deifo 5 days ago
Make a console damn it, these graphics on a ski fi game, imagine a space view 0_0
natsamsonPS3 6 days ago
Notch should be funding these guys
REZOWNO 6 days ago
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REZOWNO 6 days ago
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Lastoneremains 6 days ago
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Lastoneremains 6 days ago
@hombacom Explain how it takes THAT MUCH MORE to draw.
Lastoneremains 6 days ago
Euclideon Engine + Atomontage Engine = Best Game Engine ever. Euclideon is not a scam, voxels have great potential to replace polygons in games.
FischKopfD 6 days ago 6
Be realistic. This method has limits to how much you can store, just no limits of how much of that total you can have on screen. What those limits ARE, I can't be sure, as I don't know how they're handling their "atoms" in terms of data. Clearly, the limits aren't too "limiting" from the island demonstration.
MegaPoster404 1 week ago
@Arteanor Premade light/shadows because it's static. If it isn't why not change it and prove to people that it's piece of cake with voxels.
hombacom 1 week ago
@Arteanor Who really knows because they don't reveal anything. Bragging and using childish comparation like baking cookies. Do animation and do it in quality what people expect 2012 is different.
hombacom 1 week ago
@Lastoneremains You have no idea how polygon works and higher resolution wouldn't take less space. The material is dead without light, alpha, reflection etc so how can it look more realistic? We can't scan a whole city in super details and Euclideon doesn't tell the features of this engine. It's static!
hombacom 1 week ago
@hombacom at 5:31
you say, i know what this is, and it can't do animation...
bruce " you have no idea what we are doing, and have no right to say anything about it...."
couldn't have put it better myself.
Arteanor 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hombacom
"The material is dead without light,"
just jump to 16:40.... u can see light, and shadows... more lies from a failure at bashing a product....
i hope your boss checks how bad you are at this.
Arteanor 1 week ago
@hombacom Alpha maps are managed by the textures. Reflection is possible. You can just create a scale model of a city with say clay and then modify it to look better in game. Higher resolution does take more space. Lighting can be done with shaders which seem like they would work in this quite easily. Animation is animation, if it can run skeletal animation of that quality it can run it at almost any quality. Shadows are likely dynamic from what I gathered from the demonstration.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
@Lastoneremains Hey you have all answers to questions game developers had for years. Suddenly there is no limits? Do the world consist of lazy developers that can't think and suddenly one man appear and tell what nobody thought of? Realtime light/shadows and physics can make any engine crawl on its knees. Euclideon said they not optimized their demo yet and still have 95% features left, who else can have those excuses when demonstrating what they have?
hombacom 1 week ago
@hombacom There are limits but they are much higher than what we are at now. Developers are not lazy in the least. Physics is usually approximations and light/shadows are quite complex to do, luckily there are tricks to get around a few of the issues. I was saying that it is likely possible to run those things in the engine. Seriously, you just seem to be attempting to troll me.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
this is the graphics engine of the future
FischKopfD 1 week ago
I said WOW unlimited times , and still saying wow
Midstr8 1 week ago
This is an amazing piece of Technology. Since 3D was created! Think of the Video Games? Think of the movies' CGI? Think you don't even have to actual act anymore, just let this Technology to do. Think...if you could even touch a face on a screen for the first time? Think how rich they are!!?? This is a good/bad scenario. Awesome technology + World Bankers = Anonymous .... lol just kidding just letting loose.
metaljake87 1 week ago
I really want to see this succeed. I imagine they're having to drive through limitations they are now discovering, but I think it can ultimately revolutionize the way games are designed if it's even a tenth as good as they're describing here. I mean, it looks amazing, but it remains to be see how far it can go in a world as large and varied as, say, Red Dead Redemption's, plus animation and physics. I'm expecting some major limitations, but I hope for the best here.
Dramen93 1 week ago
So much bullshit in one video ;D This is how you scam ppl and get 2mln $
googleslocik 2 weeks ago
@googleslocik You're only parroting what Notch has said, you mindless drone.
CrookedSmirk 2 weeks ago
@CrookedSmirk
Wtf does that greedy ass have to do with anything ? Wtf is wrong with you kid ?
I work in the industry, and i know how limited this technology is, voxel engines been used in games for as long as i remember, and died for a reason, its nothing new, and their technology is even more limited.
googleslocik 2 weeks ago
@googleslocik Do you have any way of proving that to me?
CrookedSmirk 2 weeks ago
@CrookedSmirk
Prove what, you obviously dont know shit about game design. and you dont have idea what are they even showing.
Educate yourself and come back.
And im still waiting for you to say what notch has to do with this video, or do attention whore to the point you mention random famous ppl in every comment ?
googleslocik 2 weeks ago
@googleslocik No, Notch mentioned months ago through his Twitter that he thought the atomic polygon concept was a scam and people have been parroting his words like drones ever since.
I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that this is impossible.
CrookedSmirk 2 weeks ago
@CrookedSmirk coming from the guy that only thinks in blocks :p
Lastoneremains 2 weeks ago
@Lastoneremains And actually can finish something? It comes from a guy that in short time have sold 5 millions copies and people have done 3 millions Youtube-movies of the game. The work speak for itself.
hombacom 2 weeks ago
@CrookedSmirk It's a shame, too, because people are misunderstanding what he was saying. He was saying that, while it sounds very awesome, there's lots of things to take into account like the fact many models were repeated over and over and there was no animation. He advised people to remember that it is not a finished product and there's no guarantee that they'll be able to get it working for a game engine... but they might. We just have to wait and see.
Dramen93 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Honestly, don't listen to notch; he's a fat fucking jew.
qwertyboy8 2 weeks ago 17
@qwertyboy8 He's like Steve Jobs. Over hyped for being good at maybe one thing.
KaleSerpent 1 week ago
@qwertyboy8 lol
REZOWNO 6 days ago
Where the video games at?
anonymous732 2 weeks ago 2
notto dissu shitto agen
icipher83 2 weeks ago
Too bad their rendering shenanigan, as good shenanigans they may be, won't work for animation, therefore making this completely useless for gaming. Next.
ShinGarugamesh 2 weeks ago
People isn't really understanding what this is.
This isn't really a new way of making 3D-Graphics. Notch is right, what they've done has been done before(Voxels) and they keep saying that, BUT, the way the graphics are built aren't interesting.
The interesting thing here is that it is a new way of RENDERING graphics.
Instead of loading the whole area around you, like current graphic-engines, it ONLY loads the PIXELS that needs to be visible on the screen(With exception of physics).
TheCelestialSphere 2 weeks ago 2
@TheCelestialSphere The world must still fit in memory to avoid loading time or pauses, so you can't put endless details. There is a lot of optimization in current engines to render only "what you see". You take too easy on the problem, animation or changes screw up the simplification "only the pixels that needs to be visible on the screen"
hombacom 2 weeks ago
@hombacom
Current engines works by loading up all the graphics around the viewer, even though the viewer aren't really watching those things.
Unlimited Detail would instead only load the graphics when you actually are watching them.
Objects still have x,y,z coordinates when they aren't visible, meaning physics would work, but they would not be loaded visibly until the camera would be pointed at them.
Unlimited graphics - Yes!
Unlimited objects - No!
Disk space - I have no idea...
TheCelestialSphere 2 weeks ago
@TheCelestialSphere
how do you want to calculate physics for objects that arent loaded into the memory ? like back of a ball that you throw at something, or a object partially oculded by another random object ?
And that's ignoring that it takes years to simulate only 1 frame for such complex environments.
You cant have physics in this engine.
googleslocik 2 weeks ago
@TheCelestialSphere Nothing is unlimited. You don't think people tried all kind of solutions and choosed different? You load into memory because you don't want lag from a slow HD. Some people buy everything what Euclideon says and can't think by themself. Because Euclideon don't show any real games everyone can create their own version of how it works, imagination is unlimited :-)
hombacom 2 weeks ago
With their speed of development it would only take 10 years to finish a game.
hombacom 2 weeks ago
@hombacom They can make the next Duke Nukem.
jimjamjoeyjoejoe 2 weeks ago
@hombacom they are only 9 fucking people developing a brand new method of rendering 3d graphics, the only real difference in usual development is using a converter to convert the data from polygons to the voxels/atoms.
Lastoneremains 2 weeks ago
@Lastoneremains Facts: Bruce/Unlimited Detail has been around since 2003 (wikipedia) and we haven't seen a single atom moved/been animated yet 9 years later. It's not so smart to focus on one problem and forget the rest. Comparing to finished games with a static pointless repeating demo is redicilous and they should stop bragging to be taken a little bit serious.
hombacom 2 weeks ago
@hombacom He has animations,there is a youtube video somewhere.
Jimmg3point0 2 weeks ago
@Jimmg3point0 Yeah separately from the demo and isn't impressive at all. Next.
hombacom 2 weeks ago
@hombacom
He is optimizing it before he puts animation into the current version.
Lastoneremains 2 weeks ago
@hombacom Until two or so years ago it was one person, Bruce dell. If you actually watch the interview he explains what happened. He even shows the old demo's which do have animation (though clunky skeletal animation). Even if it isn't possible now it would likely be possible in the near future, as the founder of ID software said: no chance of a game on current gen systems, but maybe several years from now. Production issues will be challenging.
Lastoneremains 2 weeks ago
@Lastoneremains Anything could be possible in future! But saying and doing is two different things. Euclideon try to sell higher resolution, but nothing else. If they hadn't high resolution people would laugh at their creations. Why do he show the clunky animation, to tell that he sucks at animation or because its the only thing he have at the moment?
hombacom 2 weeks ago
@hombacom Actually resolution is the limitation, as time goes on the graphical boosts will be in lighting, shaders, and resolution and to a lesser extent model quality (as better storage mediums come up they can fit in higher detail items). if you say that its pointless because of the space limits you need to keep in mind that lower resolution models also take up space thus games will have an estimated 5X detail boost when they finish with less updates in consoles and computers.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
@hombacom If you are talking about the models then no duh, its a tech demo. The clunky animation they shown is to show it is able to do it, while it is clunky that was due to his inexperience, remember, that was near the very start of the creation of the engine
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
@Lastoneremains But just because Euclideon succeed to do an "engine" with higher resolution on static content without effects doesn't mean they have the wide knowledge in 3D. You don't just hire some people. Everyone working with development knows that different techniques have different advantages. You can't have endless distance/details if there is interactive parts in the picture, so not giving any real case scenarios its impossible to say if the engine is more efficient than anything else.
hombacom 1 week ago
@hombacom they didn't say it was the most efficient engine no matter what, they just said its more efficient than polygons. Explain why interactivity would cause everything to randomly fail. They didn't randomly hire the people. seriously, you seem to be trolling for the sake of trolling, whats wrong with having hope, even if it is a lie it doesn't hurt anything, just trolling them isn't going to help and may cause us to miss an opportunity to revolutionize gaming.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
@Lastoneremains If you don't have knowledge why engines work like they do, you can't compare. Polygons are perfect to describe surfaces efficient that we experience flat in distance regardless of angle. Skin, walls, roads, slopes etc. Tell me how many atoms do you need to describe a natural mountain surface of 1 square km? Even if Euclideon has resolution, they create a world of straight blocks, why? Because its more easy technically. And that isn't realism.
hombacom 1 week ago
@hombacom it would only take as many vertexes as on the polygonal model, heck, your argument could be debunked by the leaf that accidentally clip into in this video, no pixelation at all. If you say its impossible to have a model with few of them than look at the figure they move around. in a few area's there is little info on where they are but the renders look just fine. It seems that you are ignoring everything in the video and trying to find ways to prove me wrong.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
@Lastoneremains Great to scan a stone or leaf in very high resolution but nobody talks about how much data you need at that level to create a whole city or forest. Polygon engines try to solve that problem instead of ignoring size of RAM/HD like Euclideon. DICE could also make a super natural tree or dirt land if they skipped the rest. And the buzz about scanning? Why not just convert existing models, the demo look old in style even if its scanned.
hombacom 1 week ago
@hombacom They scan them into polygons, they can use a program to simplify the models and then convert them to the new format which would use up less data as it doesn't need to save what is connected to the vertexes, just the vertexes themselves. And no need for model swapping would further allow for more detail. Because scanning yields more realistic results. The cheap look in the video is largely due to video compression.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
@hombacom Heck, flat shapes put together to create an model isn't realism if I go by your logic. Sure you can have flat objects with polygons easily (a single quadrilateral would do) but it is also perfectly possible with the atoms, watch the demo, its plainly obvious.
Lastoneremains 1 week ago
The guy is so fucking annoying... holy shit i feel like bashing his head
intelsilver 2 weeks ago 2
idk if anyone has said anything about this... but am i the only one that noticed the tearing ?
lordfenixNC 2 weeks ago
@lordfenixNC and lets not forget collision
lordfenixNC 2 weeks ago
@lordfenixNC they are using software mode,there is no vertical sync...yet
petris101 2 weeks ago
This does look like something that needs to come out in a few years.
1. Intel I7 processor seems to run it OK, little to no lag. most people don't have I7's
2. I don't think this is anywhere near done, and it will probably be a few years before its done.
3. I hope this company is not the only one who does this. Monopoly is a bad thing.
cromoman94 2 weeks ago
@cromoman94 also you don't seem to address the fact that these things take up huge amount of HDD space.
cromoman94 2 weeks ago
@cromoman94 I wish i had edit. I do think that this is an awesome technology, and it can revolutionize the gaming industry if its well.
I have more faith in things like the atomage engine however in making better games in the long run.
cromoman94 2 weeks ago
I just want to say "This will change everything!"... I would love to become a developer for this technology. It seems the table has turned in favor to the little guy with a big dream for unlimited detail which lives in us all!
djrobbyrob111 2 weeks ago
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
artismy 2 weeks ago
how many are going to order flowers and ask the guy about how "the project is going"
elmalhermano 3 weeks ago
I just realized something, GRAN TURISMO 6, FEATURING LASER SCANNED CARS SIMULATED ON A NEAR MOLECULAR LEVEL!!!
Lastoneremains 3 weeks ago
@Lastoneremains you sir, just blew my mind to heaven. THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN!!
LORD351 2 weeks ago
lol he's fallen in love with it poor guy
OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth 3 weeks ago
how long until nvidia and ati send an assassin
elmalhermano 3 weeks ago
its funny all the people that criticized this technology when if you think about it, they got a grant of 1.3 million dollars, i doubt anyone would of gotten that amount of money from a technology that was bogus
alvarg 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I really hope this is real, I would like to believe!
ff45t1z 3 weeks ago
If anything this has convinced me more that this is snakeoil.
HiAdrian 3 weeks ago
@HiAdrian how so? whats so unbelievable about this?
alvarg 3 weeks ago
@alvarg I don't find the main interviewee believable. Whether he's working on the technology or just management, it takes a lot of dedication and his character seems all over the place as well as seeming to lack a foundation in what should be his field of expertise.
More importantly, they didn't address the concerns, with the exception of camera pitch/yaw maybe. What has been stated against them is still valid criticism, and their avoidance of it makes the whole campaign suspicious.
HiAdrian 3 weeks ago
@HiAdrian i understand what your saying but keep in mind that people will criticize for the sake of criticizing and this island demo wasn't meant as a "this is our technology how do you like it", it was more hey fans this is where we are up to, then people are like this is crap doesn't work blah blah even if they showed us what they up to now because it isn't perfect the critics will still be like err it doesn't do this or it doesn't have this and still complain so whats the point
alvarg 3 weeks ago
@HiAdrian also what does it matter what the guys personality is like makes no difference on what he knows or what he can do,
alvarg 3 weeks ago
@HiAdrian
"More importantly, they didn't address the concerns,"
state the concerns listed BEFORE this video was made, that he didn't clarify...
i think he rather eloquently explained that what they THOUGHT he was doing, was not what he WAS doing.... i don't know how people can't understand it when he explains it.
" with the exception of camera pitch/yaw maybe. What has been stated against them is still valid criticism, and their avoidance of it makes the whole campaign suspicious.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
@HiAdrian which leads me to believe that people that are here bashing it, are not doing it for some misunderstanding, it tells me it is a malicious action to forward the interest of some counter interest.
they owe you NOTHING, why on EARTH do you thnk you DESERVE some sort of insider peek inside their technology before they can even get it finished.....
you caught wind of something, it was a lucky peek, he was gracious to explain, you greedy hateful twit.
Arteanor 3 weeks ago 12
@Arteanor I think you're the hateful one here. I would bet money on this not coming to fruition and consider your lack of skepticism highly naive. They came forward with buzzword laden marketing speech, supposedly being way ahead of current technology, but didn't deliver (beyond what has been possible before). If you go public, especially in this manner, it makes you open to criticism; this has nothing to do with owing anything.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
HiAdrian 3 weeks ago
@HiAdrian
:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
the evidence is part of the same video this shot is from... it is all there, along with the explanation...
i don't know why it is hard for you to understand....
being skeptical doesn't mean i can't bash people that make nonsense claims that they KNOW the technology is fake....
Arteanor 3 weeks ago
Now someone form a project, write an open source clone of this so indie developers can use this for free :D
Viturien 3 weeks ago
MAN JUST RELEASE THIS XIT !!!!!! forget about business ppl..
pakau 3 weeks ago
It's almost as though he doesnt even know his own system during the real time demo. By the fact that he's asking "I want to drive" and also that he's repeating some things, I dont really believe him although the idea, very plausible. I just dont believe HIM, I could imagine someone else is making it for him though. I will be impressed when I see some actual developers getting their hands on it though. I am excited.
hfyd94 4 weeks ago
I'm considering studying in 3d animation but I'm afraid this is true and get released in some years then all my learning about polygonals would have be useless.
drakenlorde 4 weeks ago
@drakenlorde Euclideon will revolve around what people have already come to understand about computer graphics and will not completely be changing the format, so that people who have degree’s in computer graphic’s, or have been working with computer graphic’s most of their live will actually find this software very easy, in fact easier to use than what they are currently working with, due to the obvious simplicities this software will offer.
MJDT11 3 weeks ago
@drakenlorde Not truly since this is about converting polygons into atoms, so it would still ne usefull :)
creykeprod 3 weeks ago
ever tried scanning a human?
squidentity 4 weeks ago 17
Q: can you laser scan something like a tree? something that has details inside, which hidden by leafs on the outside? I guess you would need xray scan or something.
bv90andy 1 month ago
@bv90andy
not so, you just need enough lasers or enough passes, to get ALL of the details you want/need from the object.
to be honest, i dont think that they ways that laserscanning is done affects this tech much, since they are capable of using industry 3d images to the same result.
Arteanor 4 weeks ago
THey need to make a 2 minute uncompressed video and upload it to torrents or something
bv90andy 1 month ago
but.... I just payed 450£ on a new gpu. I hope this doesn't come out in the next 2 years, so I can get my money's worth.
bv90andy 1 month ago
You should show this on siggraph 2012
Artgorgeous 1 month ago
@Artgorgeous They will show this when they will be done. Done - ready to sell this technology to game dev's and stuff.
behems007 1 month ago
I want to see a CG scene.
DoctorCapitalist 1 month ago
Could somebody develop homebrew using this engine for a much less powerful system like, lets just say, the Dreamcast?
RetroGamerr1991 1 month ago
this is so sparse voxel octree. Its pretty much the only mathematical structure can do this. Which might well be the way of the future. but these guys need to release soon, because the techs going to be a big part of ID tech6 and the train will have left the station.
MrShayneOneill 1 month ago
I'm sure if this were a japanese company you would all beleive them. Just wait until it's finished. Meanwhile let's enjoy polygons.
watchmadisplay 1 month ago
They should also use the extra power to move into being able to view it with 3D glasses without the frame rate loss experienced when done on polygon platforms.
beelm 1 month ago
Try using 2 GTX 590s in SLI that will be able to run this
WoWLord101 1 month ago
@WoWLord101
idiots dont watch the video. he answers why the video card is absolutely irrelevant to what is being done ON THAT SCREEN in front of them....
congratulations on being a complete fucking moron.
Arteanor 1 month ago
I'm just intrigued how they map the textures with the respective atomic arrangement. The objects certainly does not look polygonal to me... Hmm.. I still could not grasp the technology, converting from polygons to atoms will still take an immense amount of memory. Assuming that instead of vertices, we have tiny dots now representing the bumps.. that would take millions of dots/atoms. Let's just hope this is real, I'm itching to see how the end product of a game from this technology will be.
hardc0r3gam3r 1 month ago
well...I shat my pants :U I loved this so much, I watched it a second time >:D
ZainHallows 1 month ago
Great! I'm waiting for the demos :-)
Brocaserter 1 month ago
Euclideons technology is great. There marketing sucks. If they hadn't made so many outrageous claims they might actually have been taken seriously by leading businesses. But no, they went ahead and said they could do things that are impossible thereby wrecking any chance at seeming credible to major game companies. Good job!
SlamDrag 1 month ago
@SlamDrag you realise he shown a live demo running on a laptop. So any outrageous claims are backed up with the technology and demos they've given... They also didn't say they could do impossible things, impossible would be it can't be done, it can and has been and the fact that he isn't saying anything about developers is a sign that they're interested.
Don't type without thinking first
Rebo00 1 month ago
Wow, his laptop is the same with mine~lol~~nice one~
sippoujulian 1 month ago
Clever name! Euclideon!
From Euclid (an ancient Greek mathematician)! God i am proud i am Greek!
LinkSoul2 1 month ago
They should of showed a weaker/normal computer running this.
gtamikesvideos 1 month ago
@gtamikesvideos It's a laptop, you can't get mucher weaker. Imagine a gaming rig with 2 x GTX580s and 16GB of RAM running this
Rebo00 1 month ago
@Rebo00
Did you not read the laptop specs its not low spec lol?
gtamikesvideos 1 month ago
@gtamikesvideos it's still low spec when you compare it to a gaming rig
Rebo00 1 month ago
@Rebo00 2 GTX 580s couldn't handle this. You need a single GTX 560 to even run Battlefield 3. Add in physics, particle effects, AI and 64 players on the screen two GTX 580s would be crawling.
sabers2th 1 month ago
@sabers2th 2 GTX580s couldn't handle this but it's running on CPU only, think about what your saying...
Battlefield 3 needs a single GTX560 to run?! Dont be silly, the minimum it will run on is an 8series, a GTX560 would easily run BF3
Rebo00 1 month ago
I hope he's right. Would love to see this in games!
flatl1n3 1 month ago
the search engine algorithm should be then capable of accessing this data in such a way that it only accesses the pixels needed on screen and ignores the others.
If using 2Ghz on several core about 6-10Ghz or 6-10 billion of operation can be achieved, on a res. of 1300*768 = 1 millions pixels time 20 frames a second = 20 millions to retreive so about 300-500 max instructions per pixel atom on software only. The search algorithm must be fast and obviously Bruce said it could be optimised by 2/3.
sunwest3d 1 month ago
There is one thing that is sure, the data or at least the color of an "atom" must be saved and compressed somewhere. Their current resolution uses up to 4 "atoms" per millimiter so 4*4*4 = 64 per cube millimetre or 4*1000*4*1000*4*1000= 64 trillions possible atoms per cube metre. If the system consists of a compiler that takes point cloud data and converts it in to a compressed format,
sunwest3d 1 month ago
What I dont understand is how they are going to implement physics into the equation. Maybe this is a big challenge, maybe not.
And for usage, if not perhaps for gaming, this can very well be used in medical applications, building simulation, geology..
Love it when people have a totally new set of eyes on things, and we would never have gaming in general if all we did was listen to the nay-sayers.. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK CHAPS!!!
daniel984 1 month ago
I honestly don't think it looks that much better than bf3
jacksongiddens 1 month ago
@jacksongiddens you obviously don't get the point
MJDT11 1 month ago
@MJDT11 Unfortunately all of this means nothing until its released.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago 18
@sacredgeometry
yes, you are technically correct, however, you are downplaying that this is going to be AS MUCH of a gamechanger as 3D graphics, shader models, or anti-aliasing, if not more, than all 3 combined.
this WILL change how we program games. it is only a matter of time.
this IS the way games will be in the future, whether it is with euclideon's technology or something similar, there is no denying that this is the only next step to take.
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor I am not downplaying anything, It means nothing until the tech is publicly available for many reasons. 1. we don't even know if its a con yet, 2. we dont know how well it really handles in real world situations. For example animation has not been shown to work yet, only been promised to work...call me sceptical and you would be right. 3. how much memory and resources would it take to texture all of these assists if wanted to make unique content? etc. Think before you speak.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
@sacredgeometry
"1. we don't even know if its a con yet,"
did you even WATCH the video?
"2....call me sceptical and you would be right."
be skeptical, but the evolution to THIS TYPE of technology is the ONLY place left for us to go.
" 3. how much memory and resources would it take to texture all of these assists if wanted to make unique?" if these were factors do you not think that would be indicated?
how can it be a con if he doesnt want $ "Think before you speak."
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor I am a animation student but I have also one quite a bit of professional work including games development, interactive media development, general software dev etc If you cant understand the basic concept that all surfaces need to have shaders and /or procedural/image based texture then thats not my problem. All of these textures take up memory both in storage and if you need to reference them fast in ram (in the case of drawing them on screen in realtime that would mean ram...
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sacredgeometry
"I am a animation student but I have also one quite a bit of professional work in.... If you cant understand the basic concept that all surfaces need to have shaders and /or procedural/image based texture then thats not my problem"
i never said anything to the contrary.
whats your point exactly?
you havent actually made one, just give a explanation on computer functions my 6 year old nephew could have written...
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor to even take advantage of this tech you would need to have a huge amount of content being displayed, unless your game is using pointcloud based colouring then this will require more than probably for all those items to use textures. I am aware that people can be extremely efficient with textures but if this is real then this is a completely different league.
It isnt the only place left to go and it isnt the place that most needs attention.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
@sacredgeometry
"to even take advantage of this tech you would need to have a huge amount of content being displayed"
are you fucking retarded or something???
there are only going to EVER be 2 073 600 pixels for a 1920x1080, if it is so impossible why can we do it now?
your entire argument stems from utter ignorance of the explanation IN THIS VIDEO
"It isnt the only place left to go and it isnt the place that most needs attention."
then you truly are a moron. peace son.
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor Geometry processing is such a tiny fraction of rendering and we can currently draw huge amounts of geometry and its growing exponentially. The problems in rendering come from dynamic simulations, physics, lighting, shadows, complex shaders. None of these are addressed here and until they are this tech is going to be as held back as the normal method is.
Granted with the spare processing power left over on the GPU we can improve these things, but we are a long way away.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
@Arteanor re did I watch the video....videos can be faked. I work in 3d and compositing predominantly so I know how easy it is to make fake things exist. Do I think it is? I reserve judgement until its released.
r.e. money, they have already got money but thats not the only reason people con people, notoriety? because they can? People do these things all the time.
Again think before you speak.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
@sacredgeometry
"re did I watch the video....videos can be faked."
but the explanations are THERE,
" I work in 3d and compositing predominantly so I know how easy it is to make fake things exist. "
so your saying that John Gatt is a schill for euclideon and he ISNT actually driving there.... and that he is brazenly lying and throwing away any credibility...
do you HEAR yourself???
"Again think before you speak."
you should think just once, take the shrink wrap off first.
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor You have no idea what you are talking about sorry. I will try again. Imaging a world with 10,000 assets, irrespective of how high poly they are and irrespective of if that colour information can be converted at runtime to infinite cloud data the information still needs to be there in some state or another are we agreed? Now imagine a world with a million unique assets. Not even thinking about the work load imagine the amount of texture data that needs to be stored.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sacredgeometry
"You have no idea what you are talking about sorry. I will try again. Imaging a world with 10,000 assets, irrespective of how high poly they are and irrespective of if that colour information .....:"
YOU STUPID FUCK, this is exactly what im talking about, LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS...
instead of drawing spinning polygons, they have an algorithm that only draws 1 atom for each pixel from the data, and draws that, and your still a moron.
Arteanor 1 month ago
@Arteanor p.s. I know their explanation and it makes perfect sense they are using probably using some sort of fractal/resolution specific grid based multidimensional hash table look up system. It makes sense I am not doubting it works if it is in fact legitimate. I am doubting the practicality of implementing it. Especially when you realise that geometry rendering it only a small and not even the most important part of realistic rendering.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
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@sacredgeometry
"I am not doubting it works if it is in fact legitimate. I am doubting the practicality of implementing it"
you never said anything of the sort. you sir are a liar.
"Especially when you realise that geometry rendering it only a small and not even the most important part of realistic rendering."
AND can be abandoned when everything is made of atoms, you ignorant twit.
and it is for that specific reason we need to move this direction.
thinking yet? i have doubts
Arteanor 1 month ago
@sacredgeometry True, I am thinking it may be best if used in conjunction with current polygon graphics. I would think a hybrid system. However, I am not super familiar with how graphics actually work. . . .which may mean I am wrong. LOL
s1ider 1 month ago
@s1ider Until we know how it works exactly I can't honestly say. A friend of mine thinks exactly the same thing :) And he is very familiar with 3d graphics, at least from a high level perspective i.e as a professional artist and dynamics specialist.
The strange thing about this system is, is that I asked this question in my early teens, some what 14 years ago. "Why does it take more power to render things when all you are doing is pushing colour information to piles at the end of the day...
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
@s1ider Later on I understood why by being indoctrinated into why, but it still was at the back of my thoughts. Now I am finally glad to have that question at least partially concluded.
sacredgeometry 1 month ago
damn some of you people are so ignorant, this is huge. this will change the movie industry, gaming industry and anything concerning computer graphics. directors and game developers are going to be able to make movies and games for a quarter of the price meaning more fun and entertainment for everyone. stop hating and rejoice
MJDT11 1 month ago 28
@MJDT11
WE WILL BE ABLE TO INTERACT WITH MOVIES IN REAL TIME.
MushrooMars 1 month ago
@MJDT11 I assume you received your masters in Games programming considering how sure you are of that. This is made entirely using voxels rendering (looks it up), in a nutshell the reason it can be so detailed is because they are not many unique models in the environment. On top of that there is a reason that this type of graphics has only ever been used in medical imagery and the like, because to actually animate something is near impossible, however spinning it on an axis is easy
XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX 4 weeks ago
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX As Bruce Dell states in the interview, at this point they have put least focus on showcasing and more focus on the development of the tech, as they are a software development team and must have their priorities, which should be obvious, its software development and because they already have all the funding they need it would be unnecessary to fully show it of until the soft has been complete.
MJDT11 3 weeks ago
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MJDT11 3 weeks ago
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MJDT11 3 weeks ago
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX You have to understand in-terms of computer graphics there is a straight road and then there is the long curvy road. That long and curvy road is one we have been taking so far and it was always going to be a matter of time before we corrected this error.
MJDT11 3 weeks ago
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX Thankfully the long road has not been a waste, as it has encouraged us to discover immense computer power, which will be taken advantage of by Euclideon’s software in ways that I don't believe you are capable of understanding at this point. It also will revolve around what people have already come to understand about computer graphics and will not completely be changing the format, so that people who have degree’s in computer graphic’s,
MJDT11 3 weeks ago
@XxNiNjAsHaDoWxX or have been working with computer graphic’s most of their live will actually find this software very easy, in fact easier to use than what they are currently working with, due to the obvious simplicities this software will offer.
MJDT11 3 weeks ago